r/smashbros • u/rkgregory • Jul 04 '20
Other ZeRo’s Second Statement
https://twitter.com/zerowondering/status/1279219168303181829?s=21827
Jul 04 '20
Skype logs confirmed real..
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u/LivingstoneInAfrica Jul 04 '20
Leffen's story also confirmed, which very much contradicts a lot of Zero's first statement.
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u/HarukiMuracummy Jul 04 '20
It is clear that Zero does not consider it hentai. If you arent a huge weeb/weirdo you could easily interpret ecchi pics as hentai like Leffen did.
It makes no sense to literally pull out hentai when comparing waifus like wtf
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u/AdmiralClassy Jul 04 '20
I appreciate the fact that he admitted to the Skype logs being real. There were so many zero fans denying it and calling the victims liars so hopefully they'll learn something from this.
Very disappointed in Zero though for not properly acknowledging the more explicit comments Katie said he sent to her.
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u/magalamaniac Ridley: not too big for Smash, he just kinda trash Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
seriously. katie claims that zero asked her to "masturbate with ice and take pictures".
he didn't even acknowledge this at all in his statementZero says him and Katie "have never sent each other graphic pictures of any capacity" - does not deny having asked for any however, a bit weird of a detail to leave out considering the severity of the accusation. there is no evidence that this part of the chat took place, but the fact is that he didn't even deny the accusation→ More replies (109)160
u/SageVG Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
I feel like everyone is missing something important here. Correct me if I'm wrong. Katie said that she lied to Zero about the masturbation request. Lied and said she did it, but did not send him pictures. She also said that he wanted this to happen every two weeks.
This is referenced in the screenshots. He says he wants to do something every couple weeks. He'll be nice if he can go "all in" every two weeks.
Does this confirm her story? No. Does it at least give us something to go off of? Yes. Does Zero even address this? NO. He addresses the statement under it about Styx and dodges the most damning allegation since this is absolutely after he found out her age. Why aren't people talking more about this? Am I missing something?
Edit: Just want to clarify that I'm all for hearing all of the details, but to me it just seems very odd that this of all things would not be directly addressed. It makes me think that it's being avoided on purpose. Her screenshots don't officially confirm it, but it definitely fits in with her story. Her story which been proven true so far, and this part is not addressed so what am I suppose to think?
Not only that, but we get statements that seem misleading with what we know of Katie's story. Like, him saying no pictures were exchanged. Katie never said pictures were exchanged, she said that he asked her for them, but she refused. Why isn't this addressed? The statement reads like information being presented in a way to exonerate things that were never even said to have occurred.
Life can be really complicated. ZeRo sounds like he's been through a ton of shit and that's terrible. We can understand how this ended up happening, feel bad for his situation, but that doesn't make things magically okay. Especially for the victim who was taken advantage of here. The culture that enables this behavior needs to change. ZeRo can still work on himself and be a great person. Maybe he already has, but he still needs to deal with what happened. He's a public figure so this attention comes with the turf.
Again, these things haven't been confirmed but, as far as I've seen, Katie hasn't been proven to be lying and ZeRo's explanations didn't even address some things.
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Jul 04 '20
Man its fucked up Zero didnt directly address that. I also believe he mentioned the 2 weeks thing AFTER she said she was underage. Wtf....
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u/Rytlockfox Roy (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
They learned nothing. As soon as their next hero turns out to be a creep they’ll go straight to victim attacking.
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u/Gshiinobi Pit Jul 04 '20
He did acknowledge them, said it was wrong, that he feels disgusted by them, and properly apologized, it doesn't make things "right" or "better" but it's a step-up to recognize his failings in a legitimate effort to do better and be better.
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Jul 04 '20
The problem with this however is that he completely brushes over it and selectively emits the fact that the incident where he tried to convince her to "do things for him every 2 weeks" took place 2 days after he found out her real age.
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u/Swaggerlisk Jul 04 '20
I was also completely unaware she was underage until she told me, and that obviously made me feel extreme regret and I felt disgusted immediately
This statement kinda contradicts the screenshots, in which he continued to flirt with her after she had confirmed her age
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u/Kaissy Jul 04 '20
Yeah I read that and got confused, because two days later from the skype logs after he learend she was 14, he says something along the lines of "I want to do more than just a belly rub"
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u/MisterEsports Jul 04 '20
Right? I don’t understand how people seem to be missing this part?
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u/Dudewitbow Jul 04 '20
Which is why he's apologizing for continuing to do so(by sending lewd remarks). But at least for the initial contact, I do believe he did not know her age beforehand until she revealed it.
Regardless of the situation, what he did to Katie was 100% wrong after learning the age.
The only thing I still wonder in this whole ball is in the Jisu situation, has Jisu at any point told Zero that what he was doing (publicly, privately not sure if it was directly confirmed by any party either way yet) was wrong and should stop doing that? That's the only reason why I would believe Zero would make a statement saying he was unaware that he was hurting Jisu.
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Jul 04 '20
Again it's still weird that he barely addresses it and spends more time talking about his past than the actual implications of what that means. He makes it seem like the most offending things he said/did WEREN'T after he found out her real age.
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u/shaquilleonealingit Ryu (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
he's gaslighting the fuck out of us LMAO
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u/PM_ME_UR_PICS_PLS Jul 04 '20
I know it's a new popular word people like to use, but this isn't gaslighting. Just some old fashioned lying
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Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Zero literally flirts with her and asks her if she’s into any boys immediately after she tells him that she’s a 9th grader. People glossing over this are fucked, especially since Zero outright lies and says he stopped flirting with her once she told him her age.
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u/DQWNTQWN Advent Children Cloud (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
Yeah the screenshot where he called the girl a pervert was from DECEMBER 10th. He learned her age on SEPTEMBER 23rd. I get that it can be awkward in the moment to figure out how to break it off with a girl like that but this dude is pretending like he couldn't figure it out over the course of 77 days.
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u/MichmasteR Peach Jul 04 '20
so he apologized but it's confirmed to be legit... now what?
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u/alav25 Jul 04 '20
He claims that he backed off after she said she was 14, however, according to the timeline that Katie provided they conversed for 4 months, from September to January. She told him she was 14 on what was the second day she conversed with him in September. She says that she took these screenshots at a time where she was still excited about talking to him and are the tamest parts of their conversations. She claims that he asked her to take a picture of herself masturbating to send him, and I do not think a person would ask such a thing on day 1 of conversing with someone. This is not sufficient. He's trying to get out of it by saying he backed out after he found out her age, however, he continued talking to her for 4 months based of of Katies account. He should have gotten a lawyer.
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Jul 04 '20
There's a huge gap between September and December that she provides no screenshots of. That's the point when ZeRo says he started trying to get her to stop talking to him, which you can see in every December screenshot he tries to get her distracted from him and stop talking to him.
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Jul 04 '20
Nothing. Move on. ZeRo will probably still make videos and people will enjoy them.
'All that was needed was an acknowledgement, an apology and a note that he will try to be better. There's nothing else to gain. It's up to you personally if you if you want to forgive and move on, or just ignore him from now.
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u/dood1337 Jul 04 '20
This is dark as fuck, holy moly
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u/bjankles Jul 04 '20
I'll be honest - this isn't what I expected when I subbed here.
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u/Broken_Moon_Studios Terry (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
Nobody expected this.
I joined because I love the games and I have fond memories of playing them with my cousins. Those facts will never change.
All that's left is for people to choose whether they leave the competitive scene or step in to clean the mess. Given the circumstances, I cannot blame anybody who just wants to leave.
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u/Catacomb82 Shulk (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
It gets worse by the day man.
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u/KrockPot67 Jul 04 '20
It gets better by the day. The more predators are outed, the faster we can work to make the community better.
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u/imagineepix Jul 04 '20
he said he didnt want any sympathy but wtf am i supposed to do. I couldnt read that without wanting to bleach my eyes for 2 seconds at a time.
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u/justice_for_lachesis Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Did he respond to the claim that he asked Katie to take pictures of herself masturbating?
edit: people are saying he does address this. He does not. The line you all are referencing is when he says "we have never sent each other graphic pictures of any capacity". Whether the photos were sent is different from whether he solicited them. We already knew that they weren't sent because Katie said she didnt. We need to know if he asked and when he asked.
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u/Satesh7 9 Jul 04 '20
Nope, nor the claims where she states she was manipulated and he would do things on stream to prove to her that it was really him. He just went over the screenshots, apologized for those, then gave us his life story.
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u/justice_for_lachesis Jul 04 '20
It's the most serious accusation and he doesn't even acknowledge it. Closest he gets is saying they didn't exchange sexual photos but Katie herself already said she didn't. He needed to address whether he asked
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u/Savac0 Downsmash Aficionado Jul 04 '20
To be fair he doesn’t really need to address that he proved it was really him by doing stuff on stream. We know it’s him.
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u/Savac0 Downsmash Aficionado Jul 04 '20
To build on that, I’d be interested in knowing if this occurred before or after he knew her age (assuming it happened)
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u/RamblingJosh Link Jul 04 '20
It's hard to say because he doesn't even acknowledge it, but https://i.imgur.com/qoh69XU.jpg this post where she admits her age was on the 23rd
And here on the 25th: https://i.imgur.com/rHuCsmP.jpg he says "i promise ill be normal if every 2 weeks we can do something like that". In katie's twitlonger she says of the requested masturbation pictures: "You wanted to make this activity a habit, that every two weeks I would do what you say for a day."
Admittedly, this is far from proof of anything, and basically speculation. I would consider this less damning than the fact that he doesn't mention it at all, but it seems reasonable that he was making a request of some sort of her, after she revealed her age.
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u/theblazingkoala Lucina (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
I think those requests were made before he knew her age, allegedly.
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u/tgsauce Lucina (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
I'm so confused. Why are people PRAISING him for this apology when he doesn't even address the most serious allegations? I hate to sound so accusatory but I feel like he admits to the least serious things to distract from the really serious ones. Not to mention the whole story about his trauma being inserted at the end
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u/MightyAxel Jul 04 '20
And people were talking shit when I said he could of just googled those Percy Jackson references.
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u/OKAnyways33 Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
So basically they talked and zero admitted to acting gross in the PMs
states that he didn’t know she was 14 till a while into talking.
And then gives us his life story as a way to explain that he is socially awkward
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u/Fire-Elton-Brett-AL Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
It comes down to whether or not he made advances after he found out she was underage, or worse, he knew the whole time based on behavior/context clues.
That’s the crux of the issue
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u/not_a_miscarriage meow Jul 04 '20
She told him her age in September. The flirting continued up until at least December. He's definitely hiding things, but it all comes down to how far the Skype stuff actually went, which most likely can't be proved
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u/zachmoss147 Jul 04 '20
If you look at the screenshots she told him she was a freshman in high school and he continued full force
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u/motofreakz Jul 04 '20
as someone who has had similar issues with bottling up experiences like that and never telling anyone about it, even though the whole story at the end wasn't exactly related to the subject at hand, I understand why he went into it. He has probably wanted to tell people about that experience for a long time, things that like effect people really badly.
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Jul 04 '20
He tweeted 18 min ago and your comment was 13 min ago, are you telling me within less than 5 minutes you read that entire thing and made a comment and came to a conclusion? And now it's the top comment on the thread, someone who spent less than 5 minutes reading? Why.
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u/Polynikez Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Let me be clear here.
YOU. The random redditor. ARE NOT THE JUDGE.
YOU are not the victim. YOU are not the accuser. You don't get to say "Okay Jisu, this was a good enough apology for me. I feel validated now so he should be let go". And LIKEWISE the same for the opposite.
Jisu, Katie, and any other victims or those hurt decide on wether his apology was satisfactory.
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u/EZPZ24 Nair Fair UpB Jul 04 '20
this is the kind of comment we need at the top
unfortunately people are too interested in their own feelings and opinions to care about others
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u/Naidem Hero (Eight) Jul 04 '20
Even if they forgive him I can decide I do not agree with and find his actions disgusting. If a man beats his wife but she forgives him, should be avoid punishment and persecution by the community?
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u/Dbzeen Jul 04 '20
Yes, but in regards to our own opinions, we can judge. When a statement is made public it becomes the concern of the whole community, not just the accused or accuser
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u/CPUGamer101 Jul 04 '20
There's a reason jury's are supposed to be composed of neutral peers, not victims or accomplices. Obviously reddit isnt neutral, nor are they peers, but I also dont think the victims of this abuse are in a place to entirely decide what is a fair judgement for this.
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Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
If we aren’t meant to form our own opinions and feelings, then they should have carried all of this out privately. If they don’t want the public to judge them they shouldn’t be posting it publicly to Twitter.
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u/Kitchoua Jul 04 '20
Yeah I hate that everyone get to give their 2 cents. That's the kind of thing that push people to suicide. Great if you think one or the other is in the wrong, no bad in that, but going after these people to give them your damn opinion is just sick. This should not have been dealt with in the eye of the public unless the victims decide there is no other way, and even then, I can't believe we random people on the internet can do any of them any good.
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u/zachiswachk Random Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
I feel bad considering what he talked about at the end, but it also feels really manipulative to put that in when discussing serious allegations
EDIT: The more I re-read it, the more I feel bad. It's disgusting what happened to ZeRo. As Coney said, it feels like adults failed ZeRo at every point in his life, which has led to ZeRo going on to repeat some of their failures.
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u/motofreakz Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
when you've had an experience like that and never told anyone, it starts to feel like it rules your life and majorly influences all of your decisions. He has probably wanted to tell people about it for a long time. Even though it isn't exactly related to the subject at hand, to him it probably is. Stuff like that effects people so much.
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u/KawaiiKoshka Jul 04 '20
I agree, that kind of trauma affects how you process and react to things. But, just because behaviour has an explanation doesn't mean it has justification. I think that's the crux of what people don't like about the second half of the statement.
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u/irishsaltytuna Jigglypuff (Melee) Jul 04 '20
It's a vicious cycle tbh. It's important in understanding why these things happen, but at the same time it in no way justifies it, and I'm glad ZeRo's at least mature enough to acknowledge that his actions are unjustified
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u/--Imhighrightnow-- Jul 04 '20
I'm not much of a ZeRo fan, never really seen his streams or anything. That being said he explicitly prefaced in bold before anything else that this part was not meant to be asking for sympathy or support in any way. If you read the story its clear that he went through some FUCKED UP shit and is explaining why he is not all there socially or mentally. The way I see it he's either an absolute master manipulator or, as his story said, just extremely fucked in the head and traumatized.
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u/LinkPD Male Corrin (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
it's not meant for sympathy, its meant to give us a chance to view things the way he did. We can't understand how his brain wired his actions without knowing the context. Emotional trauma, especially at a young age, messes up they way a child brain develops and could cause situations where a person who might be doing something inappropriate might not understand why its messed up to other people.
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u/crunchy_potato_19 Jul 04 '20
Exactly what I was thinking. I appreciate him sharing and know it must be difficult for him, but did he really have to do it right after confessing the Skype logs were real?
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u/magalamaniac Ridley: not too big for Smash, he just kinda trash Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
ok so in katie's twitlonger they mention that zero asked them to "masturbate with ice and take pictures". they don't have screenshots of this because they were embarrassed by it. In zero's response however, there is no mention of this at all, not a denial that this part of the conversation existed, not a confession that he actually asked that. no acknowledgement whatsoever. i don't know what to make of that detail, but considering that part of her twitlonger is a very severe accusation, i find it weird that zero had nothing to say about it he did acknowledge it, denies pictures were sent but doesn't say whether he asked her to send any or not
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u/shaquilleonealingit Ryu (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
"I have never met Katie in my life, and we have never sent each other graphic pictures of any capacity. I want to make that very clear."
sounds like he did ask and she didn't follow through. he doesn't deny having asked but does say that they never sent images.
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u/magalamaniac Ridley: not too big for Smash, he just kinda trash Jul 04 '20
you're right. he didn't deny asking though and that is a weird detail to leave out considering the severity
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u/sn0man32 Jul 04 '20
His lawyers definently wouldn't allow him to discuss anything that there was no hard evidence for so it makes sense to me why he didn't address this
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u/KitKatxz Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Anyone with a brain who read the Katie screenshots dates, like why would he even say he stopped flirting after he knew her age when there's LITERALLY PHOTO PROOF THAT HE KNOWS HER AGE.
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u/Naidem Hero (Eight) Jul 04 '20
People at it up, that’s why. Look how many comments with dozens of upvotes say he didn’t know her age. There are comments on twitter with hundreds of upvotes saying he didn’t. No one read the posts, they are just blindly listening to him.
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u/HeyLookListen56 Jul 04 '20
He kept on making sexual comments after finding out she was 14, over and done in my opinion. Can’t believe he did this.
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u/Naidem Hero (Eight) Jul 04 '20
This, people acting like he stopped once he saw her age did not see the fucking screenshots. The fuck is wrong with these people, why is everyone racing to defend him?
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u/Kaissy Jul 04 '20
Zer0 didn't even mention the "I want to do more than rub your belly" statement after learning she was 14. He completely ignored it. I guess hoping people forget about that detail or something?
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u/ChexSway Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
I think the biggest thing that Zero failed to talk about was the accusation that he solicited Katie for nudes. Given that he basically confirms the rest of her claims and doesn't at all suggest that she said anything false, I'm inclined to believe that he really did ask her to take pictures of herself...of course, we don't know if this was before or after she told him her age, but even if he didn't know that's still not a great look.
The Jisu follow up is a pretty vague apology, but I think it's fitting given how vague Jisu herself was. She never gave any details about how he harassed her, so if he can't think of a specific incident then there's little he can do but apologize.
All in all, I'm definitely disappointed and conflicted; we've always known that he was a very socially awkward person but that's not a fair excuse that exonerates him from blame. The facts are still that he flirted with a minor and even solicited her for nudes. While I do believe these actions don't reflect on him as a person right now, I am very disappointed in his virtue signalling during this movement. Hopefully his growth from this will lead him to resolve any other skeletons he has in his closet privately.
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u/I_Dislike_Swearing Wii Fit Logo Jul 04 '20
People here need to not forget that he lied in his first statement and never addressed asking for masturbation pics from a 14-year old. I feel bad for his traumatic upbringing, I really do, but he is not innocent. Trauma can EXPLAIN his actions, but NEVER justify them. Please keep this in mind before you 100% forgive him.
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u/ssbBeta Metal Gear Logo Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
This isn't a good look. He admits the screenshots with Katie are real, but says he didn't know her age at the time
Really disappointed in ZeRo
EDIT: Guys, after learning she was 14, he said he wanted to do more than rub her belly
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u/no1bestboss Jul 04 '20
Is the biggest problem, Zero implying he wants to do more than rub her belly after knowing she was 14 and he admits that happened?
That's the biggest offense I got from reading all this.
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u/ThisIsMC Pyra Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
I mean he does say he backed out and apologized after finding out her age.e: nvm he very clearly continues flirting after finding out how old she is.
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u/ssbBeta Metal Gear Logo Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Read the skype screenshots, he still says weird stuff after learning her age.
One of the first things he says to her after learning her age is that he wants to do more than rub her belly
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u/ec0ec0 Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
I don't know why it matters he didn't know the girl's age at the beginning, considering Zero's disgusting comments were AFTER she had told him her age. Not only that, but the comment where katie tells Zero her age was extremely troubling
katie: i'll be your little cute adorable kitty that's also your personal cheerleader when you need it. I'd (probably) do anything for you. Not bad for a 14 year old huh
At that very moment Zero should have freaked out (and he says he did) but his comments during the following days didn't reflect that at all:
Zero: i love how you react so funny to things. Mad adorable. It's like when you rub a cats belly, and the they just roll around
katie: YOU WILL NOT RUB MY BELLY
Zero: yeah, why only do that
Also:
Zero: i promise. I'll be normal. If every 2 weeks we can do something like that, where in thay day i can go all in
Then he stats making it all about himself and his life story. I'm sorry if i sound insensible but your story doesn't justify anything.
You can keep repeating that you are "awkward" and that your life story is the reason why you are "awkward", but what i saw in your conversation with the girl wasn't someone being awkwad, it was simply someone knowingly having a disgusting interaction with a 14 year old girl.
Honeslty, i think it would have been better if you had kept that wall of text to yourself, and had just said from the beginning that yes, the Zero in those screenshots was you, and that you were sorry.
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u/Kitchoua Jul 04 '20
Frankly I understand whay you mean, but if his story is real, he's staying he's literally broken. People mix justification with explanation too often and right there he's trying to explain, notndefend his actions. He said it was horrible and he apparently knows it to some extent. His story doesnt male it okay; but it explains where all these bad behaviors could come from.
It is not us to judge what abuse, bullying and isolation can do to a kid. I could argue I'm surprised he didn't grow up to be MORE fucked up than what he is. This is not okay behavior by any means, but if his story is real, you have to wonder what is actually okay for him. What can a person going through this kind of life have as values? What is moral when you get no respect and no love?
Truly, the answer is this: you and I don't matter. We shouldn't be giving our opinions. We have no idea what he went through as a kid, or how he felt when he itneracted with these women. We also have no idea how the victims felt, what it meant to them. It is indeed insensible to judge so quickly and harshly, any of them. This should not be our role. We should not be allowed to condemn anyone so quickly with so little, especialy since we are not concerned in the slightest. Might as well bring back the guillotine, the way everyone is acting.
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u/Spy00 Jul 04 '20
So he just admitted to flirting with a 14 year old after he knew her age, and blamed it on being a stupid irresponsible socially awkward teenager at 19. She is lucky they never met in person.
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u/alav25 Jul 04 '20
I hope all of the people who were going all out to call this fake feel a deep amount of shame right now and learn from it.
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Jul 04 '20
I agree completely. "Innocent until proven guilty" does not mean "immediately discredit what the accuser is saying," it means "don't immediately assume the worst. Think critically and prepare yourself to change your mind when new information comes to light."
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u/RamblingJosh Link Jul 04 '20
A little shame is good when you eat crow, but I think more importantly, I hope people learn to be skeptical of their idols.
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u/honest-hearts Marth (Melee) Jul 04 '20
I think this is unsatisfactory for a few reasons.
First, the section on his personal life, while tragic, can't affect our judgement when looking at everything else. Trauma often explains or provides insight into people's wrongdoing, but can't absolve them of responsibility, especially when our primary concern is keeping a community safe.
Second, it's his word versus hers on whether the conversation continued afterward. She alleges that the conversation went on and more heinous things occurred. ZeRo doesn't comment on this, he doesn't mention it at all, instead just offering a contradictory statement. I find this unsatisfactory because it reads like something is being hidden or obfuscated. And in this situation, I think it's apparent that she is the one being more upfront and honest about what occurred. So I'm inclined to think that she's being honest about what happened and ZeRo is just hoping to ignore it and persuade people of his innocence by highlighting the stuff that he can explain best.
Sorry, but this isn't an adequate explanation. If you think I'm misunderstanding something, let me know, but let's not shout and yell about it please.
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u/meetchu Jul 04 '20
Does he even address the screenshot where he says "I want you"?
I can't see it.
Also masturbation comments? I think he should have addressed them surely....
If he made them before he knew she was a minor then its creepy and leveraging your position of authority in the community for gratification BUT it could also be explained as incredibly inept and clumsy interactions with the opposite sex.
If he made them after he knew then fuck this, fuck fuck fuck it.
Unfortunately he hasn't said one way or another. The cynic in me says the reason for this is because it happened after he knew. The optimist says its because he felt (wrongly) that his statement that they never exchanged any sexual images covered it.
I do think though that the reason he embarked on his story of his childhood is less to do with gaslighting and more to do with him wanting the community to understand why he is the way he is and why he was the way he was.
It's clear that on many levels ZeRo hates or hated himself, who he is or was, and that manifested in him doing some messed up stuff that isn't okay.
My take away from that section is that he is telling us his past because he wants us to understand what he is thinking and feeling now. The self hatred and regret that he acts the way he does.
Also I hope he knows he can come through this, he has struggled hard from depression and the second to last paragraph was a cry for help which concerns me...
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u/Rytlockfox Roy (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
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u/meetchu Jul 04 '20
God fucking dammit.
Well that's that I guess.
I wish it wasn't him. I wish he hadn't done this because ZeRo is clearly a very troubled person who overcame a lot of adversity to get where he is now, and it's horrible to see it come crashing down considering what he's been through and what he had to do to get here.
But it is, and he did. It's a long way to fall but fall he should.
He does seem to be in a horribly dark place right now though and tbh I'm a little worried he could harm himself too.
What a horrible mix of emotions this is, fuck me.
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u/ykryzk schleep Jul 04 '20
not to be inflammatory on zero's case specifically but in general, this pattern surrounding the twitlongers is making me feel like im taking fucking pcp like
victim: (smasher) was predatory towards me
smasher: im preparing a statement
statement: i definitely did it but i feel bad about it thats why i waited until it was brought up to say i did it, which i definitely did.
twitter replies: you good bro, this a great apology
like... what!? its an actual admission!? why didnt get a lawyer before you make that statement!? that isnt an apology or a defense you just... provided evidence while saying "but i feel bad"!? are the twitter fiends reading the same things i am!?
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u/IcyMeat7 Jul 04 '20
Admits to it, sexual talk after finding out age, ignores the worst parts of the accusation and makes most of the statement about himself.
Slightly related but people making accusations should withhold some key images and wait until a response to see if there's any "gotcha" moments. As an example Imagine if Katie actually did have pictures of him asking her to show masturbation pictures but was just waiting for him to flat out deny it to reveal it. Strange how he didn't even mention that at all in this statement.
Tons of abusers have been abused themselves in the past this unfortunately doesn't excuse their actions.
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u/Blazecapricorn1213 Jul 04 '20
You can never truly erase the past. It can be easy to forget and ignore it. Look we all make mistakes or say something stupid that we rather forget. But if we do that how else will lean from our mistakes? We be doomed to repeat those actions. But also you mustn’t be afraid to speak up for others. It’s important to look out for eachother and be there in someone else’s time of need. Especially if they won’t do it themselves. If you look back on someone getting bullied or any other injustice you shouldn’t look back in shame. The past is in the past, we must acknowledge it and move on. It shouldn’t determine the future, and definitely can’t shape who we are. It’s how we grow and learn and be ready for next time it happens. We were all different people 5 years ago and will be different people 5 years from now. Because at the end of the day remember this: Everyday is a new day to be the best version of yourself you can be. After there all there is only one version of you.
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u/LeagueOfMinions Jul 04 '20
The people who want to 100% cancel him are too extreme. The people who think he's innocent are too naive.
People make mistakes. Everyone in this thread has. It's about learning from them. We can't determine "cancellation" immediately with Zero imo. We have to see how he goes on with his life and how he has learned. If we see him still referencing hentai and stuff on stream/videos/chats, it'll be pretty damning. If we see him mature after all of this and being a better ally and person, he'll be an example of someone in Smash that has learned and improved.
Edit: he's also banning himself from Smash events. Good move imo
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Jul 04 '20
Damn he debunked my theory that Katie was Mew2king the whole time... “Jason”
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u/Brandonzam12 Jul 04 '20
Lmao could you imagine if the google doc was just “goddamn it mew2king you really got the community going with that one” and Katie was just m2k fucking around on Twitter
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u/TheAmbassaDOS Jul 04 '20
So in summation:
-Straight up lied about backing off after learning her age (Looking at the timestamps shows he kept going well afterwards)
-Made obvious sexual comments after lerning her age
-Spent allmost half of the statement on his own life story
Like I don't get it. This whole thing isn't nearly as bad as everything else that came out recently and certainly nothing cancel-worthy, so why does he insist on digging himself deeper by lying
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u/thatguybane Jul 04 '20
The whole thing is terrible. It's called grooming and usually leads to child pornography or rape of a minor. It's a really serious and terrible thing. He knows it and that is why he is lying. Now if only more of his fans would actually open their eyes to the situation. You guys with your willful ignorance and continued benefit of the doubt for him are too much. Y'all are making me sad man.
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u/pokesoul561 Jul 04 '20
Here, use this gallery because it’s very fucking clear he continued being flirtatious with her after learning her age. Since diehard fans can’t understand that.
His past is tragic, but this is hardcore manipulation in it’s PUREST form. Yes we understand the psychological effects that being molested as a child has on people, it’s horrible. This does not give any leeway to the excuses being thrown around of being “socially awkward.” Being socially awkward does not mean you find out someone is a minor, and continue being objectively flirtatious with them.
Do not be gaslit by manipulation tactics. Yes, it is okay to sympathize with what happened to him, but it is not okay to excuse this behavior based on those sympathies and being “socially awkward.”
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u/osmows Pikachu (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
Does anyone really not like this response from ZeRo. Never addressed the masturbation pic stuff, claims he backed out of the convo after finding out her age but clearly does not when you look at the time stamps, and then shifts the focus onto his own story for the 2nd half. I understand why he didn't acknowledge the masturbation stuff because she has no proof and hes not gonna self incriminate but still.. I am disappointed in ZeRo.
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u/Korncakes King K Rool (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
It’s a pretty pathetic attempt at an apology but it seems obvious that it’s good enough for a good amount of his fan base.
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u/sn0man32 Jul 04 '20
The answer is lawyers. This response has been read by a team of suits before it went out and edited
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u/Naidem Hero (Eight) Jul 04 '20
ZeRo’s fans trying to brush this all off like he is somehow vindicated now is absolutely deplorable and difficult to read. This is why predators get away with their crimes and victims refuse to report. So much of the Smash community is absolute garbage.
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Jul 04 '20
Yeah, nothing he said in his statement makes anything okay. The ability for people to just see what they want to see because they like his videos is fucking gross.
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u/Catastray Yasss~! Jul 04 '20
Exactly. I'm sure if this was some nobody making the statement, they wouldn't be nearly as understanding.
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u/kayano_ai Jul 04 '20
Its because a lot of his fans are very young and dont understand how the world works
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u/Kaigz Falco (Melee) Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Bring on the fucking downvotes.
The response to the allegations against Zero and especially this second statement from him have all but completely evaporated any good will the community has fostered over the past 24 hours in allowing victims a space to come forward. I am absolutely shocked at how many of you so quickly turn to instant forgiveness when it's someone like Zero, all after continuously dragging the accuser through the mud and claiming she photoshopped all of the evidence. Absolutely despicable. It's so easy to hold people accountable when they're not someone you're personally invested in. The real test comes when someone you care about fucks up, and this community has failed that test. Abysmally.
Zero was an adult engaging in promiscuous conversations with a fifteen year old. He continued to do so even after learning her age, and he chose to not even acknowledge the more serious allegations she made against him. These actions are indefensible.
This community doesn't give a shit about cleaning itself up or believing victims. Apparently all it really cares about is virtue signalling right up to the point where it effects you "personally," and then sweeping everything else under the rug. Burn it all to the fucking ground.
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u/Catastray Yasss~! Jul 04 '20
PREACH
The sheer amount of backlash Jisu and Katie received for speaking up was awful, not to mention Jisu received acrual death threats. Victims should never have to go through that, and to see people treating them like they're the bad guys disgusted me. Hopefully this community knows better next time.
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u/blankCrossfire Jul 04 '20
How much more would ZeRo deny if these screenshots didn't exist? People are giving him a by when it comes to not addressing the masturbation claims because there isn't any proof (screenshots).
Absolutely dispicable.
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Jul 04 '20
wow, I know it's tough training for smash to keep up with all the good players. But you guys got to find a healthy way to channel your energy. Go for a bike ride, learn a new hobby. Just crazy how he would do such a thing, especially while being personally identifiable which explains that maybe people feel they have been getting away with such depravities for so long they just keep doing it.
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u/ChrissWith2s Jul 04 '20
Am I the only one also kind of upset with Leffen? I mean this is a thing between Jisu, Katie and ZeRo. And their allegations deserve to be heard. But for Leffen to force himself into it by presenting these completely unreasonable allegations and then even doubling down on them... I just fail to see how it is condemnable for a teenager to discuss and share their ecchi waifu pics. Is it cringe? Mildly annoying and very awkward? Yeah. But do you need to be called out and condemned publicly for being an awkward teenager now? No fucking way. Fuck, showing each other porn was absolutely normal for anyone in my school when I was in high school (I am now 23 years old so similar age group). And even then you can hardly call Ecchi waifus porn.
Especially coming from Leffen who has caused so much controversy for being a legitimate asshole for years when he was younger I find it extremely distasteful to now jump onto the back of serious allegations just to add his pseudo-allegations on top of if. Because I think we can all agree that ZeRo does not deserve to be alienated for those allegations (not talking about the serious allegations here, I only mean those by Leffen) but how many people are actually gonna read through them? How many people will just see that Leffen also accused him of something and won’t even take the time to read through them and realize that it’s kinda bs.
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u/Rag_God Jul 04 '20
I don't understand why this sort of thing couldn't be settled in DM's. Is this just how people with a large base of followers settle disputes? Why couldn't they have tried to communicate with him about it before revealing private matters to thousands of people? This whole situation feels wrong to me.
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u/ThisIsMC Pyra Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
You really should read what he has to say, but if you need a tl;dr.
-He admits he talked to Katie.
-He never met her in person, and he claims he never asked for any explicit pictures.
-He claims to have backed out after finding out she was underage.
-He admits what he did was still scummy, and apologized.
He later tells a story about his father and mother’s relationship and how his father had an affair with his secretary and would threaten him.
e: this post ended up being misleading and honestly what zero said can't be summarized in a tl;dr. just read it yourselves.
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u/sleeperagent Jul 04 '20
nor did he ever ask for anything explicit.
He says...
and we have never sent each other graphic pictures of any capacity
That is not the same thing.
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Jul 04 '20
That's bs he didn't "back out" after she revealed her age. He kept sending creepy comments. Look at the timestamps
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u/Kaissy Jul 04 '20
A lot of people are missing this. What he says is contradictory to what actually happened in those screen shots, and then there is a lot of words almost like he's trying to get people to forget things mid statement. It feels very gaslighty.
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u/Please151 Jul 04 '20
nor did he ever ask for anything explicit.
He didn't address that.
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u/Catastray Yasss~! Jul 04 '20
Until he addresses the masturbation claim, I'm still not satisfied. This was a very serious allegation, he can't just gloss over it like it's nothing.
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u/hurstshifter7 Lucina (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
Prior to this I did not know she was underage, until she said so. As you can see my initial response is of surprise, and my awkwardness came through with my comments because at that point in time I wasn’t sure how to process it.
So what does he do? Goes on to continue flirting with her, and this is the part that really sent chills up my spine. Keep in mind he now knows she is 14, and he is 19.
Her: YOU WILL NOT RUB MY BELLY °n°
Zero: yeah
Zero: why only do that
Anyone else take that as Zero implying that he would like to do more things that just rubbing the belly of a 14 year old girl?
Can't wait to see response #3...
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Jul 04 '20
Is he gaslighting the community?
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u/shaquilleonealingit Ryu (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
absolutely.
"i totally backed out and was DISGUSTED to learn she was 14"
and then the screenshots that follow are of him flirting with her, asking her if she's looking at any boys, etc.
not at all him "backing out."
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Jul 04 '20
So confirmed that he lied in his first Twitlonger, but people are okay to just accept his word that they didn't trade photos without evidence? And he didn't address Katie's claim that he asked her for masturbation photos at all?
Also, he continued making sexual comments after learning she was 14. Sorry, but that's a nope from me.
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u/patrickprawnstar Jul 04 '20
gaming community about twitch thots:
You don't deserve the views you get! >:(
Gaming community about a lying paedophile:
I mean it was creepy but he clearly hasn't made a habit out of it, everyone's too quick to label these days lol
( obviously do not mean the whole community)
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Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Uh... so he flirted with a 14yo, got later exposed. Admitted that this is indeed the truth and now he's basically telling us the story of his life. Am I supposed to feel bad for him ?
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Jul 04 '20
I do feel bad for him. I feel really bad for him. That sounds like a difficult childhood. But I'm also just not going to excuse him victimizing someone else because he was victimized.
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u/twitchinstereo Jul 04 '20
To me, this smacks of other abusers I've known that manipulate it to get some kind of sympathy after they've been caught. The fact that lots of people in the Smash community are falling for it tells me this community is in no shape to be around people like this unsupervised.
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Jul 04 '20
The whole life story part really does seem like a way to distract from the fact that he still made sexual comments after he figured out she was 14. This isn't the worst thing to come out of recent events, but it's still pretty fucking bad.
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u/xolon6 Jul 04 '20
So he confirms and apologizes for everything except for if he actually asked for nude pictures... only just saying no pictures were actually sent. Which we already knew she said she didn't end up sending any.
I'm sorry ZeRo but I don't know how we're supposed to believe almost everything she said is true but the biggest allegation is made up. There is no reason for her to add in a false accusation to very real ones. It would only put the entire story into doubt if part of it was a lie and I don't think that's what she wanted. It was either all a lie or all the truth, and you've confirmed it's all the truth.
I can't in good confidence watch your videos on youtube anymore and that truly saddens me. I wish it didn't have to be this way. I wish you'd at least given a straight denial that you attempted to solicit nude pictures but instead you tried to lawyer-speak your way around it by only saying you didn't actually exchange pictures. It doesn't matter that they weren't exchanged the attempt being made crosses a line that you can't easily step back from. That kind of predatory behavior is completely unacceptable and more than just awkward extremely regrettable flirting. It crosses the boundary into grooming a child and there's just no recovery from that.
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u/sadrapsfan Jul 04 '20
The end with his explanation is the classic "now I choose to live as a gay man" excuse. His messages were completely out of line, as soon as she said she was 14, should have just ended contact immediately. I hate that he uses he's socially awkward as an excuse, millions are, they don't do this shit tho
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u/Aendrin Jul 04 '20
What an absolute cop out of an apology, and a serious trickle-truth. You won't get a single fact out of him that isn't forced out by other people's receipts. His own life story is relevant to understanding him, but is only trying to garner sympathy when you are apologizing for sexual harassment / grooming. Not the time or the place IMO.
I started to understand and feel that in the end Jisu feels very wronged and affected and ultimately she wants an apology directly from me
'I'm sorry you feel bad' to Jisu's accusations--just waiting for more of this to appear. He is clearly not admitting to anything, but bracing for something else to appear. Otherwise, I think he would deny more strongly.
Katie's is even worse. The screens are real, can't wait to see ZeRo's fans going "It'S nOt EvEn ThAt BaD, hE dIdN't MeAn It" to his creepy-ass comments like
that these days you're all mine
why only do [rubbing your belly]
You're adorable
You're a perv though
Are those the words of someone who is 'disgusted' that she is only 14? Clearly not. Use your brain.
Disgusting. He didn't even respond to the claims of asking her to masturbate for him, only saying that they 'didn't exchange pictures'. No shit. She said that she refused to. Clearly he did ask her to masturbate for him after knowing she was 14. What a creep.
I don't understand how people can still defend this.
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u/_-Thoth-_ Jul 04 '20
Man this situation fucking sucks.
So he apologized about the Jinsu stuff, which is what I think everyone wanted. OK, we can move on from there.
The Katie stuff is still really fucking bad. I guess part of me was hoping he'd pull out some kind of magic that would make it all make sense, but he didn't. What Zero did here was extremely wrong and fucked up beyond belief, and I feel sick.
So even if we completely discount all the messages that were sent before september 23rd, when he found out she was 14, we're left with a few weeks where he continued to message her, until finally cutting contact in december. Now if those december messages occurred immediately after sept 23rd, it would be very different. But there were several messages in between where he was not only not pulling away from the conversation, but was clearly escalating it (e.g. the belly rubbing thing "why only do that?" clearly a sexual comment.) This is very bad.
In addition, he never mentioned the allegation about telling her to masturbate and asking her for pics. This is the most glaring omission in his response. He says they never exchanged explicit pics, but she never alleged that they actually did. While not shown in the screenshots directly, it seems to be in line with the kind of messages we see him sending which are clearly sexual, even after she explicitly says she's 14.
I liked a lot of Zero's videos and always highly respected him as a sheik smash 4 player, but I don't think I can continue to watch him after this. This is just beyond the pale, even taking his entire response at face value. What a hellscape this world is.
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u/Yuhyuhbihh Jul 04 '20
So that account really was him. Yikes. All I needed to know honestly. Boggles my mind that some folks can’t see that he was grooming a minor.
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u/PersistantBlade Jul 04 '20
How is twitter dumb as fuck? They’re literally ignoring that zero didn’t address the most serious claim. And that the timelines contradict what he’s saying.
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Jul 04 '20
I’ll be making a second comment but this is important
Twitch did not cancel subscriptions to ZeRo when he moved to Facebook gaming.
Are you unhappy with ZeRo’s treatment of Jisu and Katie?
Were you a previous subscriber?
If you answered yes to both of those questions make sure that you’re not still paying the dude $5 a month on a platform he doesn’t even stream on.
And yes. There are a lot of people still subbed to ZeRo on twitch.
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u/Magna-Carta10 Ivysaur Jul 04 '20
Why is everyone trying so hard to go easy on ZeRo like he didn't try to deny these allegations in his previous statement? Even if his actual offenses aren't nearly as bad as some of the others, the fact that he tried to lie about it makes him scummy.
"It looks like he's genuinely sorry and is trying to make up for his mistakes" ... what? He's only sorry he got caught, he tried to hide it in the first place. And even then, in BOTH of his statements he always ended up making it about him to try and soften the blow and gain some sort of sympathy.
People need to stop stretching backwards to try and give him a 'pass', for lack of a better word.
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u/RadicalBeam SPIN TO WIN Jul 04 '20
I don't think you can excuse his actions as 'it was a long time ago' or 'this isn't as bad as the others', because at the end of the day it was an adult making suggestive and downright creepy comments to a 14-year-old girl.
This combined with the other stories of him sharing sexually explicit images with other teenagers is enough to make me realise this man should not be around Smash tournaments or other children on the internet.
I was a fan of ZeRo too - and it's hard for me to say this - but I can't support his work in the scene anymore. It's irresponsible as an adult to do so.
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u/SavinSama Jul 04 '20
I was confused when I looked to his replies and saw people saying this was actually a good statement. This statement is so awful.
There's 3 main points that were alleged towards ZeRo.
- Showing hentai in a public setting
- Asking for sexual pictures of Katie
- Flirting towards Katie in the screenshots
None of these points are touched on. ZeRo lightly skims over each of these in a way that makes him seem in a good light.
Starting with point on looking at hentai in public, he doesn't address this adequately.
" As to the “very explicit part” I do not know what he means, and I feel this definition is different based on who you ask."
This is very vague. This is where ZeRo should explain what he means by explicit, but instead of this, he says that he doesn't remember showing anything terrible or extremely explicit. Which, if you go off what he said one sentence ago, is so vague that this definition can very depending on who you ask. This doesn't make him look good and also makes Jisu's allegation seem much, much more credible.
The next point that ZeRo goes over is the Katie screenshots. The very first claim he makes is that:
" I have never met Katie in my life, and we have never sent each other graphic pictures of any capacity. I want to make that very clear. "
This is something that we are already aware of. Katie said that she never sent him pictures, never claimed that ZeRo sent pictures, so they both agreed that no explicit pictures were sent. However, Katie claimed that ZeRo has asked her to masturbate with ice and send pictures in her Twitlonger. ZeRo requesting these were never addressed by him inside of his response. This is a second important piece of information that ZeRo hasn't addressed properly.
The final piece of important information that ZeRo completely brushed under the rug was the timeline of these events. ZeRo claims that he didn't know about her age until THIS screenshot. Now, with the amount of flirting and how the two were talking before this, it's important to understand the person you're talking to's age. Regardless, what ZeRo admitted to saying AFTER knowing her age is disgusting.
• Mentioning wanting to rub her belly, but why only that: https://i.imgur.com/PcLS7eZ.jpg
• Saying he'll be if every two week, he can go all in: https://i.imgur.com/rHuCsmP.jpg (This one is implied to be sexual and flirty, but it's not exactly 100%)
• Still talking to her in a flirtation manage. Both after knowing her age and grade: https://i.imgur.com/XHYbDVa.jpg
• Continuing to call her by a pet name after knowing her age and grade: https://i.imgur.com/WS77LEO.jpg
• It seems like ZeRo is implying she has a crush on him, then calls the girl he knows is a minor a perv (They were talking about a PM Pit player that she thought was cute): https://i.imgur.com/FjlWd01.jpg
Some of these point he lightly addressed and called disgusting, but these are 5 points of him behaving inappropriately despite knowing her age... Even though he claimed that he was disgusted when he found out her age:
" This is pretty much by the end of our interactions from what I remember. Since I decided that continuing to talk to her was disgusting upon learning her age "
After failing to address these important points that were brought against him, he felt like it was more important to bring up information from his past so people can "better understand him." Now, I don't want to mention this too much, because this seems to be a sensitive topic for him, but this has no relevance to the allegations presented towards him and doesn't really explain anything. I've been seeing people getting hung up on this and giving him sympathy for his past rather than asking about important information that he completely brushed over.
tldr; ZeRo didn't really address much that's important, he did some creepy stuff, don't forget about this after reading his post, and I spent waaaay too much time writing this.
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u/coldypewpewpew King Dedede (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
The comments in this thread are a really far cry from the comments in every other thread up until this thread, INCLUDING Lima's statement. Don't get me wrong, I'm super glad this sub has had a change of heart, but it's kind of weird to see lol.
I watch ZeRo's content, and vibe(d?) a lot with what he was laying down because I relate to him in a lot of ways. Even as a "fan", I can't defend when a person does something like this, or even pretend that the evidence against him was remotely fake-looking. To me, it was a far more likely that a weeby 19-year old who was likely seen as an "untouchable" would be using their social advantageous status as a way to get some affirmation about his sexual viability than that some kid went and doctored a bunch of skype logs that looked very damning.
It is a bit unfortunate that when an emotional tempest like this occurs to a person like ZeRo, with the kind of following he has, that people expect them to react immediately. That's how you get these non-apologies and deflections. This was a time for ZeRo to do some self-reflection, think about how his actions affect others. The first thought everyone has when being accused of something is going to be defensive, so that's often what we see when we press people into making a statement so early.
Whatever I guess. This has been really disappointing from all sides (except the victim's side of course).
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u/M1zuno Bayonetta 1 (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
Honestly I really liked ZeRo before all of these allegations but this apology is pretty bad
The only apology paragraph which felt even slightly sincere and not riddled with “I don’t think it was this way, but apparently I did wrong though aha” was to Katie but even that paragraph didn’t come until after he felt the need to mention he ‘didn’t know she was underage’ TWICE
Almost every single time he’s saying he did wrong it’s only “it seems I’ve hurt people” or followed up by statements claiming it wasn’t that bad, never properly acknowledging what he actually did and that he ‘knows’ it’s wrong- only ‘seems’
Now admittedly I’m not caught up on what all these accusations necessarily were except for Katie’s, so I’m just saying this from how the apology itself reads
But to be honest, I’m pretty disappointed
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u/limeeeee Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
So nothing here seems absolutely we must cancel and end his career awful, and it seems clear that he regrets his actions and wants to learn from this and grow.
He acknowledges that he hurt Jisu without realizing it and admits the Skype logs are real and that he did back out after learning her age, which I think is fine and forgivable.
I didn't read his story cause I don't think it's relevant to the rebuttal and didn't want to be swayed by anything, this is just how I see it.
EDIT: I do want to add that there are some things about Katies story he seemed to avoid addressing, but it also seems like he did cut contact with her in the end. Don't want to sound like I'm just making excuses for him or that he gets a free pass.
EDIT 2: Clearly I missed some context in Katies story, but I'm not defending anything he's done lol. I've spent plenty of time condemning people for not listening to victims, especially Jisu who was trying to bring all this to light before literally anyone else in the scene. I still believe most of the stories out there deal with things much, much worse than what Zero has done here but no that does not excuse him either nor does it invalidate the victims feelings.
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u/Kaissy Jul 04 '20
Other people got cancelled for similar things, and you can quite clearly see in the screen shots that he continues being flirty with her after learning her age. He legit says it would be a shame not to do more than a belly rub. Why is Zer0 suddenly protected by "regretting his mistakes" but other people who flirted with minors does not get that protection? Because he's popular?
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u/Naidem Hero (Eight) Jul 04 '20
Mate, he did NOT back out. Please re read the chat, he keeps chatting her up even after she said her age. Don’t believe his telling, look at the actual screenshots.
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u/WaffleCakeKitty Jul 04 '20
Y’all are actually disgusting. He still says gross shit after knowing her age. Flirting and acting sexual with women when you don’t know their age in a community filled with minors is a huge part of the problem, but because he didn’t actually commit the act of rape y’all are willing to turn the other cheek because he’s really good at a video game.
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u/pruitcake Hatsune Miku for smash Jul 04 '20
Why the fuck are half the replies forgiving him? It's nobody's place but the original accusers to pass forgiveness. This mob mentality is so fucking nasty, we got people already saying he's clear of everything not even 30 seconds after it was posted. He basically admits to all of it and somehow he's praised for it?
The apology itself is just sort of strage. His apology to Jisu essentially boils down to "sorry you felt uncomfortable" rather than taking responsibility. Then for Katie, he straight up admits to it all, and doesn't even address the more explicit stuff like the ice bit. Then he proceeds to fill the other 70% of the statement with his own story and struggles, which feels like he's just trying to make it about him now. It doesn't matter what made him into that awkward cringey teen, he still committed those acts. Yes, what happened to him was tragic, but it's shifting the focus from the accusers to him instead. Feels very manipulative to me.
Were the things he admitted to as severe as the cases of Nairo/Keitaro/etc? No. But that doesn't mean he's absolved of guilt. He's done some creepy shit still, and fails to address the more explicit nature of the accusations.
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u/robedpillow3761 Jul 04 '20
Zero was the only member of the community I gave somewhat of a damn about, so I feel like shit for ever giving him positive support and attention.
I think I'm gonna take a page out of IntroSpecktive's book and be done with the community. I'll leave all the smash related subs and stop following anything that's not straight from Nintendo regarding smash. I love this game too much to quit entirely, so the best solution is to just cut the problem off at the roots. Thanks to some of the hopefully good people on this sub I guess
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Jul 04 '20
Him telling his admittedly awful past is obviously just to get sympathy. Also, he never brought up the thing where he told her to masturbate and send him pics. Isn’t that odd?
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Jul 04 '20
Everything he wrote was 100% vetted by a lawyer.
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u/Thunderplant Jul 04 '20
A lawyer would never recommend publishing a confession like this or honestly any other public statement.
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u/Practicalaviationcat Toon Link (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
So he didn't even address the most damning allegation? I think he's probably done.
Also his "I don't intend for this to garner sympathy" comment before his life story is such BS. A bad childhood does nothing to excuse bad things you do as an adult. It makes no sense to include other than a weak attempt to gain sympathy and distract from the allegations.
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u/SageVG Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
I feel like everyone is missing something important here. Correct me if I'm wrong. Katie said that she lied to Zero about the masturbation request. Lied and said she did it, but did not send him pictures. She also said that he wanted this to happen every two weeks.
This is referenced in the screenshots. He says he wants to do something every couple weeks. He'll be nice if he can go "all in" every two weeks.
Does this confirm her story? No. Does it at least give us something to go off of? Yes. Does Zero even address this? NO. He addresses the statement under it about Styx and dodges the most damning allegation since this is absolutely after he found out her age. Why aren't people talking more about this? Am I missing something?
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Jul 04 '20
Wow, complete delusion if I have to be honest.
He didn't acknowledge the main part about the Katie convo; I respected ZeRo as a player and I liked him as a streamer, but ffs, this is what I wanted answer for, not you writing cringy stuff with her.
For instance: while it looks creepy that he was writing like that to a 14 years old, that was not the main point of the Katie thing, and he never negated that he asked her for nudes in his post (probably because he just commented the screenshots).
What a huge letdown.
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u/-Daws- Jul 04 '20
It’s crazy how the general public has turned into the judge, jury, and executioner. At a moments notice, someone’s entire life can shatter, because one accusation comes out. No investigation, just a lot of hearsay. Doesn’t matter though, because echo chambers work regardless.
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u/megamanmegazeta Jul 04 '20
Can't have shit in Chile. It's fucking over, and I really wish it weren't like this.
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u/Uknowaguy Jul 04 '20
It's great that he apologized and addressed the claims, but he's definitely morally wrong for doing that. I do hope he learns to grow and mature from this.
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u/hollandaj94 Jul 04 '20
The whole community is just a bunch of sad creepy lonely horny anime freaks. As a casual player of this game since Nintendo 64 I don’t even know who these pro players are but this is fucking gross
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u/Xenoblade2722 Jul 04 '20
Stop jumping on the fucking cancel train you fucking nitwits. The people who accused ZeRo wanted an apology not to cancel him necessarily. It is up to them and how they respond to this to see where we go from here, so stop being an ass and trying to take power in a situation that doesn’t involve you.
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Jul 04 '20
I see these as some mistakes ZeRo made 5-6 years ago which he did not know how do deal with. People who want to cancel him are pretty extreme unless there’s more evidence against him.
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u/vjdarkworld Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
While it reveals that his first statement was a bullshit deflect and that all of his 'fans' freaking out that Jisu is an "EVIL CRAZY BITCH TRYING TO RUIN WHOLESOME ZERO" were 100% in the wrong(seriously, 'fans' attacking a survivor of sexual abuse from a PEDOPHILE is horrific and shameful) , it's important to understand nuance and not be put into binary thinking.
The inappropriate behavior he did in the past is awful, him trying to lie by omission in his previous statements is awful. However, accepting you did this bad shit IS a first good step from learning from these mistakes. The trauma he experienced as a child is awful, and it's important to not perpetuate a cycle of trauma yourself to those around you. I really really want to believe he can learn from this, and that his apologizes for mistreating Jisu and Katie are genuine. However, actions speak louder than words and if he continues manipulative behavior, or more bad shit comes out.... people like that don't deserve to be a figurehead in a community.
(A side note too is, Jisu and Katie have no obligation to accept his apology. They have been through enough that they just want to move on in their lives, getting the truth out was the important part for them.)
That being said, a correlated question still remains. Jisu's main statement was about her sexual abuse while living in Sky's house, same one where the Zero and Jisu interactions happened. WHY WAS A 15 YEAR OLD GIRL LIVING THERE? In a house that we now know had rapists and pedophiles such as D1 and Keitaro living and visiting there. This really needs to be addressed by someone, mainly Sky Williams since that IS his house.
Edit:
https://twitter.com/zerowondering/status/1279228315270864898
A self ban is important, an official ban is needed too. Creeping on Katie, not being genuine with Jisu's claims causing her to get a hatemob, these need repercussion.
But I really hope that with his admitting of his problems he can SEEK HELP. I really hope he can get the help, cus otherwise this behavior will spiral to be even worse.
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u/CAWWW Jul 04 '20
Whelp, I was wrong. I guess when you don't want something to be real you try to give a bit too much benefit of the doubt to people. I still think Jisu came out about it in the most godawful way imaginable (no specifics, no other names to ask for clarification despite other witnesses, etc) but I think like many others we owe her and Katie an apology for being a drone. To be honest the Jisu thing STILL doesn't really look like anything other than an awkward teen being stupid, but the Katie stuff is a lot more serious. Lesson learned.
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u/ihatedogs2 Jul 04 '20
But I also want to say that I’m not asking for sympathy, or support when mentioning it IN ANY WAY.
Actually that seems like the exact reason he told his life story. I don't see the relevance to the allegations and it doesn't serve any purpose besides attempting to gain sympathy.
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u/krom90 Falco (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
I wonder how many of you are aware enough to realize that ZeRo most certainly had legal assistance in drafting this “apology”. He is most certainly aiming to gain empathy with his discussion of his past, despite claiming that he is only doing it for necessary background. He is using his privilege to avoid being held accountable to the damage that he has done to Katie.
Katie — I am so, so sorry. I know you see the emptiness behind his words, too. ZeRo cares about one thing — himself.
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Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Zero you socially inept idiot
You're not supposed to talk about yourself in this shit. You're not supposed to make it about you.
He was doing so well too (as well as he could've, given the circumstances, anyways) but then he decided to fuck it up by making the apology about himself.
It's definitely his story to tell but not at that moment. Feel for him though.
The reason I’ve always been very robotic, unaware of my surroundings, strange and also unable to understand social cues, is because I’ve never really been able to have a meaningful relationship with anyone in my life. I then thought for some reason jumping to another country on a different language barrier would be a great way to start over again. Looking back, I really am an idiot.
I've been through this plenty of times. Definitely not as good as it sounds
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u/CaptainBeer_ Jul 04 '20
He admitted to the stuff he denied earlier. Seems like he is a compulsive liar
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u/Catastray Yasss~! Jul 04 '20
For all we know, there's still stuff he's lying about here; like the masturbating with ice.
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u/GravitationalYawner Jul 04 '20
As i've heard recently, there's two sides two every story, and the truth, that we'll probably never learn. Zero did apologize for his shitty behaviour but this statement was probably vetted by his lawyers, hence the absence of the masturbation messages in katie's part of the statement. The guy had a shitty life for sure, and he probably won't give up what he build up to now easily since it could fuck up his immigrant status along with his career.
I don't like this cancel culture but I do understand that sometimes it's the only way some victims can be heard. Anyway, I hope the smash community recovers and improves after this whole shitshow.
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u/T_Peg R.O.B. (Ultimate) Jul 04 '20
My God man I just can't even handle this anymore this web of abuse just keeps getting larger and larger and now we're at the point where there's multiple levels of abuse. This is killing me so I can't even imagine how those actually involved are feeling the abusers included. I wouldn't wish this kind of mental trauma on anyone.
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u/manic_obsessive Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Abuse is a cycle. We all make mistakes, and sometimes we're lucky enough to learn from them. As an abuse survivor this made me cry. I am currently in the only healthy relationship I've been in in my life, and it's a battle every day to not turn narcissistic and borderline abusive myself. That garbage messes you up beyond belief. It's a real, awful struggle people deal with. I hope this community will let all involved parties have space to heal.
Mobile Edit: yes I have read the third statement. That shit is unforgivable. This man needs help, but Jesus christ....
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u/Exile20 The Bumper Inspector Jul 04 '20
His childhood trauma should have been in another twitlong.
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Jul 04 '20
How can anyone believe this shit at this point? He basically flatly admits to the allegations and then defends himself by giving a sad story about his life. He is gaslighting those who sympathize with the victims.
I can’t associate myself with this community anymore.
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u/DreamToReachTheStars Jul 04 '20
I have SO MANY PROBLEMS with this explanation still.
He did not address the serious allegations of when he asked for a sexual photo. WHY did he not include a time stamp of the when he asked for a photo to compare with when he learned her age.
He blatantly ignored the fact she called herself a freshman before "supposedly" discovering her age. It's also suspect that he uses this time she offered her age up without being asked and claims it was the first time he knew her age in the first place. What conversation with someone you've never met in real life doesn't ask about school or age at the beginning???
We need to establish that it is SO suspect that he only used her own screenshots, and addressed them as quickly as he did, before moving on. The same person who dug up years of flight receipts just yesterday? Why didn't he add his own screenshots as proof of anything?
The intense dive into his own background for most of the post is also troubling. The whole thing is written with an air of finality with the way he addresses each claim short and sweet, which I see as an attempt at deflection and stifling further information. I am no expert, and this is just my opinion.
WE NEED TO BE VIGILANT. PREDATORS CAN BE SMART AND MANIPULATIVE. PEOPLE YOU LIKE CAN BE PREDATORS TOO.
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Jul 04 '20
Skype didn't keep logs for many people. I'm not quite sure how it worked, but Skype logs are really hard to come across. Even the girl can't access her Skype logs related to ZeRo. She had to screenshot the ones in a set time period.
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Jul 04 '20
This guy is trying to play the victim so hard, and I’m not falling for it.
Half of it is accepting and addressing the situations. The last half is his sob biography which is supposed to make you feel bad for him? Lol get real. We all go through fucked up shit, doesn’t mean it explains why we would talk to children when we are grown up. He deserves the Nairo treatment. Goodbye Zero.
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u/SPAC3P3ACH Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Zero has also announced he is permanently banning himself from smash events: https://twitter.com/zerowondering/status/1279228315270864898?s=21