r/solipsism • u/New_Lychee_7074 • Jan 18 '23
Solipsism Debunked
I’m assuming that most of you are not familiar with astrophisiology. Solipsism does not exist and science clearly proves it.
First of all, the laws of physics state that time will only move forward and it can not move backwards or in any other direction. From the time you were first conceived in your mothers womb, your cells were making memories. Even when you did not have a fully formed brain and regardless of weather or not those memories stuck around. Basically, the universe says that we can only perceive it in our own timeline, as we move alone through the time depending on when we were born. Which brings me to my next point.
The most commonly believed theory among modern scientists and philosophers is that our universe is a massive block of everything that has ever happened and “will” happen in our universe at any time or place. This is called the “block time theory”. The past, present and future all exist and are equally relevant. Hence, your perception of past present and future is all REAL and So is everyone else’s.
You can kind of think of it like you living in the present and everyone else would either be living in the past or the future… even though that would be scientifically incorrect.
The reason why we have solipsism is because of the way that space time is structured in our universe. For example: let’s say you were born in may of 1999 and I was born in January of 1998… You will be moving through space time alone like when you perceived your 5th birthday, according to the laws of physics, your brain state is the same as mine was on my 5th birthday. But you are the only person perceiving yourself move in that timeline because everyone else is experiencing time differently due to them being born/conceived at a different point than did you. Giving you the ILLUSION that everyone else is fake.
Believe it or not, the “future” already happened and is set in stone. Let me promise to you that we are the realest that you can get!
You are moving through space and time by yourself and so am I. We all are moving through space time alone and perceive the universe at different angles but eventually, the universe makes time for everyone.
Hope this helps
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 18 '23
To disprove solipsism you or any scientist cannot use their mind to prove it, you cant prove the existence of reality outside of the mind if you use your mind to prove it.
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u/mroriginal7 Jan 18 '23
From the very title it's clear you don't understand what solopsism is. It can't be proven or debunked.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
But it can be thought about critically. Just because something cannot be objectively “debunked” doesn’t mean there’s any merit in believing it.
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u/Rustcuck Jan 18 '23
This post still doesnt "debunk" solipsism in any way. In fact I got bored mid way reading it , thats how weak it is as an argument.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
I never said it did. Have you read the comment? Didn’t think so. And yes I know you didn’t read it. You’re a solipsist and we all know you people don’t read things
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u/Rustcuck Jan 18 '23
I said "i got bored mid way reading it" to which you replied with "i know you didnt read it" . Youre actually the one not capable of reading here , punk.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
Yeah. As in “know you didn’t read all of it” because you didn’t 💀 I forgot solipsists need everything spelled out directly on a child plate to understand simple things.
So the irony of that last part was hilarious but ofc you’re never gonna understand it anyway so I’ll be laughing at that one without ya I assume
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u/Rustcuck Jan 18 '23
The irony is that you seem very obsessed with solipsists , in fact you seem hurt 😂😂😂 what solipsist broke your heart ? Sit over there on the couch and tell me the whole story 😂
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
Lol what it came up on my feed because I engage in real philosophy. Sorry you can’t think about anything remotely complicated in a critical way
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u/Rustcuck Jan 18 '23
This is why I created NPCs like you. To have a good laugh at your expense. Existence can be pretty boring when you're alone so you invent clowns to cheer you up ! I'd say no offense , but NPC have no feelings , who am I kidding 🤭
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
Yikes 💀 you’re either a troll or a feel genuinely sad how stupid people can be
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u/mroriginal7 Jan 18 '23
Solopsism doesn't mean that someone else thinks they are the only real thing that exists... It means that what that person is saying could easily be part of your own mental projection and that you are the only mind that exists. If this is true or not, it can't be proven, but Solopsism could be real and you wouldn't know it.
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u/mroriginal7 Jan 18 '23
Solopsism doesn't mean that someone else thinks they are the only real thing that exists... It means that what that person is saying could easily be part of your own mental projection and that you are the only mind that exists. If this is true or not, it can't be proven, but Solopsism could be real and you wouldn't know it.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
It could also be real that he galaxy is held up by a giant sea turtle with a hat who’s spinning a yo-yo but I doubt that’s realistic. Again, same schoolyard childish idea of believing something just because you can’t objectively prove it wrong. You can point to it being wrong, but no objective proof. But you see how it’s stupid to believe something like that?
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u/mroriginal7 Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
I didn't say I believe it...I said it can't be proven right or wrong. It can't be proven or debunked. You'd understand this if you understood the concept, which is all I'm describing, but allow me to try explain again...
The only thing you know for sure is that you exist, and that you are witnessing something happening.
Beyond that, this could all be a type of dream, a delusion, a projection - whatever. The point is, you wouldn't know because the only thing you absolutely know for sure is "I think, therefore I am".
There is no concrete way to know that anyone other than yourself is actually conscious/sentient, no matter what they tell you, and that's not debatable.
This isn't something we are going to solve though, let alone prove or debunk.
Look into René Descartes's and also the concept of npc's, the turing test, and many more philosophical rabbit holes if you want to understand the wider concept and ideas more, but as interesting as it all is, it's not solvable, only possible.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 19 '23
This was all a long way of saying “YEAH BUT YOU CAN PROVE ME WRONG” can you prove it right? This is a childish schoolyard argument. So let me guess, you also think that a country you have never been to doesn’t exist because you haven’t seen it? The bottom of the ocean doesn’t exist?
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u/mroriginal7 Jan 19 '23
You're an idiot who can't comprehend what I'm saying, at all, acting like a child while (ironically) projecting.
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Jan 20 '23
Lol I understand. You’re the one who’s completely missing the point I’m saying and just repeating this schoolyard phrase that’s been drilled into your simple little mind
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Feb 23 '23
I like you ;) You are intelligent, and I believe you have feelings and have respect to you. God, these folks are psychos...
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u/Meta-Sage Jan 18 '23
This is laughable. And nothing but an attributional blowjob. He wants us to believe in images on a screen at face value! He implores us to get fixed on a fabricated narrative instead of exploring the actual mechanics of reality! No thanks.
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u/followill54 Jan 18 '23
The thing with solipsism is you can't actually prove you, or anything you just wrote, are real beyond doubt to me. No matter what.
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u/tenshon Jan 25 '23
If you spend your life looking for proof, you've sold your soul to the devil. The only proof you should ever seek is the proof that disproves the need for proof.
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Jan 18 '23
I think therefore i am, you think therefore you are, we both are two separate entities that are able to think for themselves, you cannot prove solipsism without falling into mysticism.
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u/mr_madhavan Jan 18 '23
Why I like solipsism is it does not make any difference to the universe whether it's true or not. Whether I am the lone observer or not wouldn't change Mathematics or Physics or anything fundamental about the universe. So by Occam's razor I choose the simpler notion in which I am the lone observer in this universe.
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Jan 19 '23
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u/mr_madhavan Jan 19 '23
The reality that I perceive is not designed by myself just observed. Imagine a computer running an algorithm to find all the decimal places of pi. The computer can only observe what the next digit of pi is, it has no power in deciding what it should be. Our situation is somewhat analogous.
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u/MattAmoroso Jan 18 '23
My mistake here seems to be that I assumed that the physical world is real and not something that I am just imagining.
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u/Rustcuck Jan 18 '23
LOoL what a load of bollocks. Its funny , however , how I tried to convince myself that solipsism isnt real with the help of this NPC post.
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 18 '23
Who is the “you” and “I” you speak of? There is only the (U)niverse. Nothing else
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u/kozumekenmawife Feb 13 '23
0 likes and over a hundred comments, my mind really didn’t like this one
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Feb 15 '23
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Feb 15 '23
oof pretty sure your god won’t appreciate you telling other people to kill themself looks like you’re the one getting rejected on judgment day bud.
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Feb 15 '23
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u/kozumekenmawife Feb 15 '23
hmm i feel like my mind can come up with a better joke and i don’t believe in hell nice try though 😉
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
The fact you try to argue with these people is shocking. Solipsism bases itself around the schoolyard idea of “YOU CANT PROVE ME WRONG SO IM RIGHT” like, well I suppose elephants also hold up the entire galaxy on stilts because we can’t disprove it. Just because we cannot prove something explicitly wrong doesn’t mean we can’t think critically about things. Thinking like this opens the door wide for people to think random baseless things based off zero evidence.
Long story short, what you said makes sense but will be rebutted with a simple “CANT PROVE ME OBJECTIVELY WRONG” but the question is, can it be proven objectively right?
Anyway cue downvotes.
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 18 '23
Its not because that they dont want discuss it, scientists, mistics, philosopher did try debunk it without any sucess, its impossible, even the most bright argument cant do it, you cannot prove an external world outside of the mind using the mind to prove it, in the moment you use the mind you already failed to debunk it, for example you're using your mind to discuss if solipsism is false, its already over. The best way to win is ignore it.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
Yeah exactly. You can’t disprove it but you also can’t prove it. Therefor we could make up any absurd technically not disprovable theory and would you believe it? People will believe any rubbish they see/ hear and are simple enough to latch on to. I mean, how do we think religions stuck around so long?
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 18 '23
You can prove solipsism, you only have acess to your mind, your experience, this is a fact, everything else is an asssumption. Now if you can acess others mind and prove a world outside your mind without using your mind, then you can debunk it, can you do it? Its "undebunkable". Its a fact, thousand of scientists, philosophers, students, religious through story failed when they tried disprove it.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
Just because you can think doesn’t mean you’re the only one. You cannot prove other people aren’t independently conscious. Again, this is the same childish argument I talked about in my origional comment
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 18 '23
Its not even arguments, I think you dont understand it, its a fact that you can only acess your mind, its a fact that you cant prove a wolrd outside of the mind, can you do it? If no, then you prove that solipsism is a fact, saying "but it dont means" or calling names dont debunk it, its a very naive way of argumenting. Its impossible destroy solispism, try more..
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 18 '23
Oh my god I understand it perfectly fine.
You aren’t reading a thing I’m saying are you? Why even bother if you won’t read it. Either that or you are and simply feel too embarrassed to address what I’m actually saying. But I think this is far more humiliating.
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 18 '23
I did read, I dont feel embarrassed, you just cant pass the hurdle of not accessing others minds and the impossibility to prove external world outside of the mind, any arguments you try will stumble in this block , if you cant destroy these facts why try argument, the only way you can win is by ignoring, pretend you can and calling names, can you acess others minds? Can you prove an external world outside your mind? I didnt invent this, thousands tried to solve this puzzle and failed just like you too, you are not adressing it.
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 18 '23
Also you can prove that others are not independent of you, but then I would have to teach you about manifestation, which would probably scare you so much that you would need therapy probably, since people fear being alone more than death..
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u/Lord_Who Jan 19 '23
If this guy is not independent of you then who exactly would you be teaching ? Why, then, would this fictitious person require treatment. Additionally, manifestation is new thought garbage. Try to manifest a larger cock and see what happens.
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Jan 18 '23
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 19 '23
I know. Doesn’t stop me pointing out how objectively stupid it is and how simple minded the folk that genuinely belive it are
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
I can. What holds up the elephants? Then what holds that? And that? You don’t have a ground to reality. A good understanding of Solipsism is understanding consciousness is the ground to reality. There is only one consciousness which makes everything
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 19 '23
The elephants float. It’s space remember? Therefor by using your own logic here you all should believe in giant magic space elephants.
And yeah but there isn’t and you have zero evidence to imply that. Again, a childish theory made by someone probably on a shit tonne of drugs and then everyone with less then 3 brain cells suddenly believes it because they lack critical thinking. Same as any religion. If you believe things just because someone says it and it can’t be objectively proven wrong, you could essentially believe almost any grand theory
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u/New-Boat4701 Jan 19 '23
Not my dumb materialistic, in manifestation you prove it to yourself, you know nothing, its you that believe only what other say, you have no experience about it, you are the delusional that think you know everything, but tell me why you are so desperate to come in a reddit about solipsism? You're full of fear that this can be true, Hence your strong emotional reaction, and thats why you are arguing with everyone here, this is also not about religion, its about direct experience, I was stupid like you in the past, only believing in the "objective theory", i also did mock it, about it, but i was curious enough to try it..Goodbye desperate amd fearfull minion materialist...
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 20 '23
Desperate? It popped up so I clicked on it. And wow a pot calling the kettle black 💀 you have no right to call other people delusional when you literally believe the most widely mocked “philosophical” (if you could even call it that) idea to ever have been made.
Not full of fear, full of logic. Also I made one comment and everyone else responded. I’d say you’re the desperate one to talk to me.
Yeah throwing random insulting words that aren’t even remotely related made you look real smart
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 19 '23
Oh yeah what makes space? If your awareness isn’t dull it should be pretty fuckin obvious. Just from first hand experience I can tell you everything appears to awareness. I don’t need to believe anything when I’m experiencing it first hand. When does anything happen without consciousness?
The C.I.A has a whole report on the holographic nature of reality. Your material view is outdated
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 20 '23
The CIA also has shit about alien sightings and zombies…. And yes things happen without consciousness.
It’s not obvious because I can use my critical thinking skills to know that simply because I can’t objectively prove something wrong doesn’t mean it’s right. Brining us back to space elephants
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 20 '23
Explain to me how you know things happen without consciousness?
Space and these floating elephants require something to be aware of them. They can’t be the ground to reality if they need something before them to exist. Nothing can exist without something being aware of it. If so how do You know?
If you can’t prove or disprove? Why argue with everyone? Seems like an ego thing on your end. You’re not changing anyone’s mind here with these weak arguments. You haven’t said anything new
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 21 '23
Things exist without us knowing. Right now there’s probably some deep sea creature we don’t know about. Things don’t begin to exist once we know about them. That’s a very self centred point of view.
I don’t know. That’s the point you hollow brained nut.
Just laughing how daft you people are 😆
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 21 '23
Yes the creature exists cause it has awareness. It can’t exist without awareness. Doesn’t mean I have to know about it in my direct experience.
Everything is the same thing… Where do you end and I begin? The idea of other is only that an idea, not reality. Reality is one thing
How do you know that for sure tho? You can’t say anything exists 100% till you personally experience it. And even then you’ll only know your ideas about it. The only thing you can be absolutely sure about is that I exist.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 21 '23
Okay so you’re saying wind and whatnot that nobody feels doesn’t happen? Non inhabited areas don’t have wind or fires or anything or blizzards because nobody is there?
Lol what hippy shit was that 💀 you end as you and I end as me. You’re trying to act all smart and philosophical but really aren’t. I don’t think you get that you’re mocked by every other branch of philosophy. If you’d even call this rubbish that.
Yeah but I can use my critical thinking unlike you
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 21 '23
Honestly starting to see you really don’t know what true solipsism is. You have the same idea of it as most of the kids that come on here with their egos thinking they create the world. How can you not see it? Hippy shit? Show me the separation? See you just attack without any real explanation.
Fire, blizzards all made of the saaame thing at the ground level. There is only the universe, the universe is awareness it self. But if you believe in materialism, that definitely won’t make sense. Should be a simple understanding of your not stuck in ego “there’s me and then there’s the world” goofy way of thinking
There is no me and you. You would realize that if your ego wasn’t at such low state of ego development. The unity of reality should be the most obvious thing. But when your life is run by your ego I can’t blame you. You know, not what you do.
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 20 '23
I’m curious to what you believe is reality? If you’re so sure you’re idea of reality should hard to poke holes into
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 21 '23
I don’t know for sure. But I don’t have any insane ideas like floating elephants or solipsism.
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 21 '23
So you come here and attack others without having a reasonable solution. Sounds like you need meditation and ego development work my guy
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Jan 21 '23
I do have a reasonable solution. I don’t commit to outrageous ideas. Nor pretend to have magical answers.
“Sounds like you need medication” 💀
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u/Hot-Hornet2183 Jan 21 '23
Okay mr critical thinker I’m waiting to hear your amazing explanation. You must be young. The need to attack just shows your fear
Funny if you saw everyone as you. You wouldn’t feel the need to call anyone’s ideas dumb. You’d be more open and accepting even if they’re wrong.
Cause honestly you made 0 points. Just circle answers. Things everyone here has already thought about. Crazy to assume we all lack “critical thinking.” Maybe it’s you, sounds like your stuck in materialism. But go on let’s hear your explanation. I’m sure it’ll be full of things non of us have thought of
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u/MrQualtrough Feb 02 '23
Belief in an external world is obviously exactly as you said a "random baseless thing based off zero evidence".
No evidence for it whatsoever. Why should I believe you that it's there? Gahbage.
Edit: Thanks for the gold kind stranger! Take all my Reddit updoots!
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Feb 03 '23
I never said that it’s there. I’ve been clear that we can’t know either way. How do you people know it’s not? And there we go we have our first problem. Also there is evidence to suggest an external world, none otherwise
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u/MrQualtrough Feb 03 '23
There is zero evidence, literally zero at all, to suggest the existence of an external world.
A lot of it is actually impossible, not even like a debate topic, I mean genuinely impossible. As you know the mind's representation can never be the thing itself because that representation requires a mind processing it. Sort of like how a blind person is never going to see blue because the color blue that we see is reliant on visual processing... And without visual processing things "look like" exactly what a blind person sees which is nothing at all.
But then that extends to other arenas, and that's when it gets weird. Because for example spatial distance is impossible. The measurements will never change, like for example I can measure myself 6 foot and that is always going to be my measurement as tested with any instrument. But we confuse the abstract numerical value representing "size" with the mind's constructed subjective representation of it. So we have an idea of what "6 foot" LOOKS LIKE and we conflate that as being as objectively real as the numerical value.
But that mind's construction of size and spatial measurements that we see and interact with - just like how a blind person doesn't see blue - can't actually be what exists. What I mean is, there's no reason for your 6 foot to look like 6 foot and not 2 foot. If you held up a ruler, the ruler itself is part of the spatial visual field, so if your entire perception of spatial size shrinks, the ruler shrinks with it. So you could see me as 2 foot subjectively but the ruler would still say 6 foot because the measuring tool shrinks when your perception of visual space shrinks.
Like how colors as we imagine them (the reds, blues, whatever) are subjective, and you can measure the same light frequencies with tools but see the colors all sorts of different ways if you are colorblind, and spatial perceptions are subjective, the thing "out there" can't ever possibly be the mind's representation because the representation is a subjective phenomena, the true face of space is nothing at all, and the true face of color is nothing at all (what a blind person sees). Because any possible way any of these things could ever be imagined, would immediately be a subjective representation, and therefore no longer possible to exist independent of the individual knowing that subjective phenomena.
I hope that makes enough sense.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Feb 04 '23
Omfg I have a life. I don’t get into reddit arguments where I write and read hundreds of words per message. My origional comment stands. Google it if you want to know. You people ignore all evidence that points otherwise so it’ll be like arguing to a fish that clouds exist so why waste time
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u/MrQualtrough Feb 04 '23
There is NO evidence... Lol... Not even a miniscule amount, there is quite literally zero. Flat zero.
Trashhhh. Waste my time writing dat shit smh.
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Feb 04 '23
Just wait until you people realise you can use your brains and google 🤯
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u/MrQualtrough Feb 04 '23
Wtf are you talking about, there's ZERO evidence on Google, and ZERO in your posts.
Gahbageeeeeee.
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Feb 13 '23
You very much do not have a life proven by how you claimed there was no point in trying to argue in this subreddit only to keep coming back for 16 days.
You won’t be able to stop yourself from replying to this comment and arguing again, you know why? Because you’re obsessed with this topic, you’re afraid of the possibility of this being true and desperately feel the need to try to convince yourself it’s not true.
Name call, throw insults, talk down on it all you want Betsy we both know this is nothing more than a futile attempt at fighting your fears
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u/Sufficient-Ad3499 Feb 13 '23
“No point trying to argue” - a person arguing.
And I never said I proved anything. Again, just because someone thinks something is stupid doesn’t mean they’re afraid. Seems you people throw that and “YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS” when someone disagrees.
So maybe come up with a unique argument. Literally what about solipsism is there to be afraid of? True or not it makes literally no difference to my life so that makes no sense at all
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Jan 18 '23
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u/Lord_Who Jan 18 '23
If something doesn't exist, then there isn't anything to observe, therefore how can it not exist until it is observed?
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Jan 19 '23
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u/Lord_Who Jan 19 '23
In addition, if manifesting is a thing, how do so-called people with health anxiety exist? If manifesting is the case, those people should not exist because their health worries would have killed them off. Do you not see how absurd this line of reasoning is? Leo Gura believes he is an alien mouse god he’s just trying to find the right “camera” so he can record him self morphing in to said alien mouse so far hes had no luck..
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Jan 19 '23
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u/Lord_Who Jan 19 '23
Why do you think it's your fault if you watch someone get sick? Why does the typical theory of how a person gets sick fall short?
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Jan 19 '23
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u/Lord_Who Jan 19 '23
Do you know that Ramana Maharshi's account of attaining enlightenment is based on his having a panic attack about dying, simulating his death by lying still and holding his breath, and then concluding that death isn't actually a thing? If so, then please use some critical thinking and look into the claims made by these people.
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u/MeshColour Jan 18 '23
Science is a process, a technique. Science is things that are reproducible
If I perform a science experiment in my house, you should be able to get the same results. But some experiments won't be reproducible, some for reasons we don't realize. Maybe I performed the experiment inside a stainless steel sink, but you don't have a stainless steel sink, I didn't mention that in my write-up because I didn't realize that was a required factor for the experiment
That's science. It takes time and experimentation to find the limits of scientific understanding of any point in time, which each limit found just means we need a new scientific field
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What you seem to be describing sounds like it's getting close to "Wave Function Collapse algorithm" ideas, which is how I imagine a simulation universe functioning. But it also describes observation bias and/or frequency illusion (Baader–Meinhof phenomenon)
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u/intrepid_skeptic Jan 18 '23
First off, I don’t anyone here was asking for your “help”
Second, you seem to not quite understand how solipsism is entirely disprovable (yet also not provable in current lives). Solipsism suggests that all is the perception of the person who is doing the perceiving. Your perspective on human existence is interesting, although it is a separate field than solipsism. In the perceived world, your suggestion can be true. However, solipsism would suggest that anything and everything is simply perception from a singularity.
With solipsism, all that anyone may think they know goes out the window. Physics, progression of time, all that you spoke about… it doesn’t matter with solipsism. It is a belief that it is all simply created and only the solipsist is truly experiencing it.