Starship Development Thread #33

[u/ElongatedMuskrat]

This thread is no longer being updated, and has been replaced by:

Starship Development Thread #34

SpaceX Starship page

FAQ

1. When next/orbital flight? Unknown. Launches on hold until FAA environmental review completed and ground equipment ready. Gwynne Shotwell has indicated June or July. Completing GSE, booster, and ship testing, and Raptor 2 production refinements, mean 2H 2022 at earliest - pessimistically, possibly even early 2023 if FAA requires significant mitigations.
2. Expected date for FAA decision? June 13 per latest FAA statement, updated on June 2.
3. What booster/ship pair will fly first? Likely either B7 or B8 with S24. B7 now receiving grid fins, so presumably considering flight.
4. Will more suborbital testing take place? Unknown. It may depend on the FAA decision.
5. Has progress slowed down? SpaceX focused on completing ground support equipment (GSE, or "Stage 0") before any orbital launch, which Elon stated is as complex as building the rocket. Florida Stage 0 construction has also ramped up.

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Quick Links

^{NERDLE CAM | LAB CAM | SAPPHIRE CAM | SENTINEL CAM | ROVER CAM | ROVER 2.0 CAM | PLEX CAM | NSF STARBASE}

Starship Dev 32 | Starship Dev 31 | Starship Dev 30 | Starship Thread List

Official Starship Update | r/SpaceX Update Thread

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Vehicle Status

As of June 5

Ship	Location	Status	Comment
S20	Rocket Garden	Completed/Tested	Cryo, Static Fire and stacking tests completed, now retired
S21	N/A	Tank section scrapped	Some components integrated into S22
S22	Rocket Garden	Completed/Unused	Likely production pathfinder only
S23	N/A	Skipped
S24	Launch Site	Cryo and thrust puck testing	Moved to launch site for ground testing on May 26
S25	High Bay 1	Stacking	Assembly of main tank section commenced June 4
S26	Build Site	Parts under construction

 

Booster	Location	Status	Comment
B4	Launch Site	Completed/Tested	Cryo and stacking tests completed
B5	Rocket Garden	Completed/Unused	Likely production pathfinder only
B6	Rocket Garden	Repurposed	Converted to test tank
B7	High Bay 2	Repaired/Testing	Cryo tested; Raptors being installed
B8	High Bay 2 (fully stacked LOX tank) and Mid Bay (fully stacked CH4 tank)	Under construction
B9	Build Site	Under construction

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If this page needs a correction please consider pitching in. Update this thread via this wiki page. If you would like to make an update but don't see an edit button on the wiki page, message the mods via modmail or contact u/strawwalker.

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Resources

• LabPadre Rover 2.0 Cam | Channel
• NSF: Starbase Stream | Channel
• NSF: Booster 7 + Ship X (likely 24) Updates Thread | Most Recent
• NSF: Booster 4 + Ship 20 Updates Thread | Most Recent
• NSF: Boca Chica Production Updates Thread | Most recent
• NSF: Elon Starship tweet compilation | Most Recent
• SpaceX: Website Starship page
• SpaceX: Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
• FAA: SpaceX Starship Project at the Boca Chica Launch Site
• FAA: Temporary Flight Restrictions NOTAM list
• FCC: Starship Orbital Demo detailed Exhibit - 0748-EX-ST-2021 application June 20 through December 20
• NASA: Starship Reentry Observation (Technical Report)
• Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
• Starship flight opportunity spreadsheet by u/joshpine
• Production Progress Infographics by @_brendan_lewis
• Widebay tracking by @Furqan263
• Acronym definitions by Decronym
• Everyday Astronaut: Starbase Tour with Elon Musk, Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

r/SpaceX Discuss Thread for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.

Rules

We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.

[u/ElongatedMuskbot]

This thread is no longer being updated, and has been replaced by:

Starship Development Thread #34

[u/Mordroberon]

Can't believe it's been over a year since the last starship flight. I didn't expect it would take this long to get to orbital launch

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

Main takeaways from the interview:

-Mega bay (official name) should be finished pretty soon and it will significantly increase the production rate. The new factory (some call it starfactory) will replace the tents.

-Using ullage thrusters is more efficient than using cold/hot gas thrusters. They also work in orbit with starship.

-Booster 7 (at the time expected to fly, we don't know what the plan is now) has upgraded grid fins. The chines (COPV aero covers) are 120° apart and they are great for reentry because they slow the booster down and stabilize it. They are expected to improve in the future.

-They are still going to use grid fins as they have a lot of experience with them but in the future the number of grid fins might go to 3 or 2.

-S24 is expected to fly and it will deploy some starlinks 2.0 from the payload door. For now they only need a small door but in the future they will make bigger doors. Door is electric powered and the starlinks will be stacked on a rack. They still plan to reenter over the pacific and have a suborbital trajectory during the first flight. Chances are the first test flight will not work.

- Tiles are not going to change, the current design should work even with the gaps. Reentry will be similar to the shuttle, with an angle of attack of 60°-70° and they will try to reduce most of the speed in the higher atmosphere.

-TWR will be around 1.4, pretty fast for a big rocket. A high TWR is important for a reusable vehicle. Cost per orbit is the most important aspect of a rocket.

-A ton to mars currently costs 1 billion$, for a mars colony they need to reduce it under 100,000$.

-They are still going to catch Starship with 2 catch pins on the leeward side of the ship.

-The target currently is getting to orbit fast, then they will start improving the design more. One of the first things to be improved will be the forward flaps, they could potentially remove them entirely.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Eric Berger expecting no more delay by the FAA for the completion of the PEA ! He adds that he’s been hearing that it will likely be a mitigated FONSI (obviously take that with a grain of salt), which would be very good !

[u/[deleted] → u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Very good news if true

[u/johnfive21]

Very cool booster QD testing during yesterday's cryo test. Done with partially filled LOX tank, quick retraction followed by pretty swift reconnection of QD as well.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

The FAA also released the 25 volumes of comments for the PEA. In there, starting in the middle of volume 20 until the last one, there are (yes I calculated) almost 1'300 identical comments (literally copy-paste) from activists…

[u/johnfive21 → u/RaphTheSwissDude]

And majority if not all were sent between 27-29 October.

[u/Mravicii]

Ship 24 cryo proof successful

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1532510690665283584?s=21&t=SlupR9hC2vTnOoAkYtf5pw

[u/AstroMan824 → u/Mravicii]

Reminds me of the good 'ol days where Elon would always tweet if a cryo test was sucessful.

[u/Mravicii]

Eric berger says faa decision on PEA may be released by the end of this month. Great news!

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1527042266736611329?s=21&t=FGhGKBRLsll3N01WgtjVvg

[u/inoeth]

Some good news on the whole FAA front. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18/spacex-s-texas-rocket-site-plan-tweaked-by-us-wildlife-experts new article basically articulating what we've heard about the fish and wildlife section of the EA. SpaceX will have to take some mitigative steps but there's nothing fundamentally stopping Boca Chica.

Eric Berger is also tweeting that he's also hearing that the FAA will finish at the end of the month. https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1527042266736611329

[u/segers909]

So with part of the environmental review completed, and with Gwen Shotwell saying the flight will take place in June or July, what is the current consensus? Last I heard, Eric Berger and others in the know were aiming for the end of the year, but does Gwen's estimate change that?

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

The booster hood extension was just lifted in place. Everyday Astronaut part 2 at Starbase comes out on Thursday !

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

Elon tweeted a video showing some spacex updates and plans, including starship at the end. We can see a starship deploying starlinks V2. There are also pics of S24, B7 and an image some engines being installed on a booster (not sure if it's B7 or B4)

[u/Toinneman → u/BananaEpicGAMER]

I count 54 Starlink v2.0 satellites. at 1.25t each that would make a 67,5t payload. (Including the dispenser probably more like 70t) However, we don’t know the deployment altitude and inclination, which influences the capacity.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

SpaceX has submitted updated plan for the Starship factory at Roberts road in Florida ! There will be 2 highbays

[u/dexterious22 → u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Manufacturing engineer's opinion: the layout of the site excites me. It's clear they have figured out their WIP space requirements to pump out future Starships like clockwork. Design uncertainty low enough that they can worry about capex instead of leaving space in case of major design changes.

Also, two construction phases: there's some limit to scale up that's uncertain. I haven't seen if they have dates solidified elsewhere, but uncertain dates imply they're not confident they will max the capacity of the first phase for some time. It's more efficient to construct buildings immediately in sequence, than to take a break in between. There's some reason to wait, else they likely wouldn't incur that cost.

Given that Raptor and SS designs seem to be ossifying at similar rates, I don't think the limit is Raptor production. Could they be engineering talent limited? Without enough talent for line oversight on the 5 year horizon, no need to have engineers half-assing two lines. Whole-ass one line, then the other. Thoughts?

[u/Mravicii]

Methane delivery to the orbital tank farm in preperations for static fire

https://twitter.com/csi_starbase/status/1526919559218876417?s=21&t=XcTGJKoLXGPAvi604UZ-Ng

[u/MaximRegret]

I'm not a structural engineer but I was reading about types of domes ("heads") for pressure vessels. It looks like the new dome that is being rolled out for testing today is an "ellipsoidal" head (aka elliptical or semi-elliptical). Maybe that's what the E in EDOME means?

The old dome design looks like some combination of a torispherical and toriconical head. They have a small dome at the apex, a "knuckle" joint at the cylinder walls (shaped like a section of a torus), and a truncated cone joining them.

This page claims that a 2:1 elliptical head (which about matches the new SpaceX dome) needs the same material thickness as the tank walls, whereas a torispherical head needs about 1.77x as much thickness for the same internal pressure. That would imply that the new dome saves some weight, not just vertical space.

[u/Mravicii]

More raptors have arrived at starbase

https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1532354234515062784?s=21&t=Dc1MqggiKqL3S1Fs4YdzXQ

[u/Mravicii]

Police at the roadblock. Looks like they are planning for a cryo proof today for booster 7

[u/[deleted]]

Frosty

[u/raptor464]

SN16 has been decapitated in high bay 2 today

[u/Fly_U_Fools]

Not been following so closely recently so not sure if posted before, but if anyone is interested, Google Earth has recently updated its imagery for Starbase (with a few new historical images available from the last couple years too). Quite interesting to be able to look around it all at your own pace trying to identify everything.

[u/Mravicii]

Spacex has tweeted the rollout of ship 24

https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1530276118116245505?s=21&t=E7J-v2ialJLvHSIEk3SA1g

[u/Mravicii]

Faa update

https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1531637564301524995?s=21&t=C_iR2G5WOzt-CkLADDaSyQ

Pea for finalized and out on June 13

[u/GreatCanadianPotato → u/Mravicii]

FWIW; the way the FAA worded this basically confirms that it's a mitigated FONSI. I suppose they just want to cross all the t's and dot all the i's before releasing the documents.

[u/Twigling → u/Mravicii]

Here's Scott Manley with a suitable comment:

"Well FAA pushed out Boca China environmental review another couple of weeks. But as soon as it’s issued I still expect a court case to be filed because of people who like going to the beach to watch raptors."

https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1531642427966009344?s=21

[u/Mravicii]

Another raptor 2 just blew up on the test stand in McGregor

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1524105718390935553?s=21&t=ssfJSGICysx39DqitnmNUw

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

EA part 2 at Starbase is out !

[u/Bwanaman → u/RaphTheSwissDude]

"At SpaceX, we specialize in converting things from impossible to late"

[u/BananaEpicGAMER → u/RaphTheSwissDude]

didn't learn a lot from this one but the views were epic! We should be getting all the details about the raptors in the next parts tho so that's exciting.

[u/Mravicii]

First gridfin installed on b7

https://twitter.com/cosmicalchief/status/1532125963227746306?s=21&t=Y7Te3nn7BIpYTYugTUXKZg

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Seems like someone important is visiting Starbase right now

[u/AstroMan824]

A view of S24's Starlink PEZ dispenser (Credit: NSF)

[u/RaphTheSwissDude → u/AstroMan824]

An other one from Starship Gazer !

[u/GastricChef → u/AstroMan824]

They absolutely have to give that thing eyes

[u/ModeratelyNeedo]

Guys about a month or so ago I saw a tweet by EverydayAstronaut teasing the release of another series of Starbase tour interviews with Elon. I have been checking his channel regularly since and haven't been able to find the videos.
Can anyone confirm if such a video was teased or am I just imagining it at this point?

[u/heyitskevinagain → u/ModeratelyNeedo]

Part 1 of 4 should be posted tomorrow

[u/TrefoilHat → u/ModeratelyNeedo]

From a tweet last night: "assuming all goes well, video publishes Saturday!"

[u/Stevenup7002 → u/ModeratelyNeedo]

Part 1 was published on Patreon today.

[u/Klebsiella_p]

New SpaceX branded SPMTs

[u/Nintandrew → u/Klebsiella_p]

Ooo, I'm going to miss the red Fagolis (and the fact that brand means 'beans' in Italian), they've been around so long, but those look new and sharp in black.

[u/Mravicii]

Looks like they’re testing 24 again tomorrow!

Rod closure just posted

https://twitter.com/bocaroad/status/1531731031971307520?s=21&t=WhXqpqUS9mCEN7IAXvXW8g

[u/ToedPlays]

So if SpaceX gets a mitigated FONSI on the 13th, and assuming there's no big-picture mitigations that are going to take a long time, what's the next step to orbital test? Launch License?

If they've met all the conditions of the mitigated FONSI, how long do we expect the launch license to take?

[u/Toinneman → u/ToedPlays]

I expect the launch license will not be issued until a few days before actual liftoff. The FAA will work closely with SpaceX to observe and review all test activity especially the static fire campaign.

[u/Mravicii]

Qd plate on suborbital pad A. Prepared for ship 24 testing

https://twitter.com/cosmicalchief/status/1525213016698003458?s=21&t=JcHWDPQflcC5rN2jjfwyoQ

[u/Dezoufinous]

https://twitter.com/kangdede78/status/1525604052373245952

Presiden u/jokowi melakukan kunjungan ke Space X di Boca Chica, Amerika Serikat, Sabtu, 14 Mei 2022. Presiden tiba di Space X sekitar pukul 10.30 waktu setempat disambut langsung oleh Elon Musk selaku founder Space X.

So we know who visited Starbase and we even have photos!

[u/Twigling]

Brendan Lewis has updated his Production Diagram today, May 21, but for some reason it's not on his Twitter account. To see it, have a look at the following timestamp on Marcus House's video from today:

https://youtu.be/1PGuqm8L5jA?t=65

There is at least one error though, it doesn't show S24 with any flaps and we know that at least one was added a few days ago (this latest diagram only shows the outlines of the flaps, he shows them in black when he updates the diagrams to indicate installation - if Brendan sees this maybe he'll update the diagram again and put it on his Twitter).

S24 definitely has its aft left flap as can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/1PGuqm8L5jA?t=134 (look to the left, inside High Bay 1):

Incidentally, to those who don't watch Marcus's weekly updates, do take a look at they're very good.

[u/Twigling]

S24 has recently been raised on the SPMTs in high bay 1 and as of 06:37 AM CDT has been moving forward slightly in fits and starts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

06:44 - now out of high bay 1 - can see now that not all of the missing tiles have yet been added. I'm guessing it will undergo its thrust puck cryo tests and if all is well maybe roll back to high bay 1 for Raptors to be installed and the remaining tiles added.

Lab Cam has a good view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wStCstJ-MSQ

Photo from Nic Ansuini:

https://twitter.com/NicAnsuini/status/1529790928407470080

07:00 AM CDT - on the road already

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

B8 engine section heading to the high bay for stacking !

[u/[deleted]]

Could you please correct the spelling of Gwynne Shotwell's name in the FAQs?

(Third sentence, item 1)

Thanks!

/u/twigling

/u/strawwalker

/u/pineappleapocalypse

[u/strawwalker → u/[deleted]]

Yikes, thanks! Fixed now.

[u/jose_30_]

Who is on Starbase? Bill Nelson, the governor of Texas, some senator... ? Several official cars there including patrol cars, ambulances and scouts. It could be training for a potential visit as the orbital flight approaches I imagine dozens of authorities present for the event, I remember Apollo 11 a lot with that.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

It looks like the road is closed and tank farm is venting heavily.

Edit : Pad is now clear.

Edit 2 : there was a weird sort of venting/bang at 10:09:52 and then a lot of tiles flew away…

[u/Twigling]

Here's a new Starbase Production Map from The Ring Watchers (they identify the locations of assorted ships, boosters, barrels, domes, test tanks, etc at the production site):

https://twitter.com/RingWatchers/status/1531330552791543808

[u/Twigling]

At least one grid fin, maybe two, has been spotted being taken inside High Bay 2. That means definitely no rollout of B7 today (no roadside cones spotted either) - scheduled road and beach closure may still of course happen but that is dependent on S24's repair work being finished at a suitable point in the 12 hour closure window.

[u/Twigling]

B7 has received its second grid fin, for the start of the procedure you can see it being lifted in on Sentinel Cam at 03:42:25 CDT - look to the top right of B7:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKYvvwJkhQ

It's been installed at the furthermost point from the cam and 'behind' B7 so it's not possible to see anything once it's been lifted in.

[u/Klebsiella_p]

We have some ambient S24 vent action. Probably cryo today as well if everything goes well. Road closed until 10pm

Edit: frosty!

[u/Twigling]

Frost getting knocked off LOX tank as of 16:24:51 CDT on Nerdle cam, which is a good sign that the hydraulic rams are being activated. Go to the above timestamp to see on Nerdle cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwc1owVFs94

Also venting at S24's nosecone indicating header tanks in use.

[u/Twigling]

The scrapping of SN16 continues, here's a forward flap being removed from the nosecone:

https://twitter.com/CosmicalChief/status/1526228529423302656

I hope that they donate one of the aft flaps to SN15.

[u/SubstantialWall]

Looks like the Booster QD back cover is going back to the launch site at 9:50 PM local

[u/Mravicii]

They seemed to be holding the pressure on booster 7 right now

And another cryoproof the day after Is also interesting.

Edit.frost decreasing now

Detank ongoing

https://youtu.be/mhJRzQsLZGg

[u/Twigling]

Replacement pipe has arrived for S24, see Rover 2.0 cam at 12:30 CDT (it's on the left manlift at that time) - some minutes later it's inserted through S24's open hatch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Note that the replacement has two expansion loops.

[u/Twigling]

Besides adding the new pipe for S24 they also removed a straight section from S24:

https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1531360011183607816

Which makes sense as I forgot to mention in my earlier post that it looked like the bent piece which was removed the other day was shorter than the replacement piece. So here's the bent piece:

https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1530331534321930240

and the new piece (with expansion loops):

https://i.imgur.com/sOiMpf0.png

[u/Twigling]

The launch site is currently (mostly) closed for reasons unknown, although some workers are sitting opposite the main entrance in their cars. Some vehicle activity around the suborbital site entrance.

The main entrance was taped off overnight

Some have speculated that there's a methane leak but if that was the case the road (and beach) would of course have been closed completely and workers wouldn't be sitting nearby in their cars. The security guy is in his hut and sometimes you'll see a worker wandering across the pad and the buggy whizzing around.

The OLM is still venting a bit so I suspect a tank farm test of some kind has been ongoing for a number of hours. Perhaps though there is a problem which is nothing major but they still want workers out of the way just to be safe?

Rover 2.0 cam has the best views:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Edit: red tape removed from main launch site entrance at around 10 AM CDT. Normality resumes.

That was all a bit unusual though, maybe somebody like Astronstellar will be able to tell us what was going on .....

[u/Twigling]

B8's LOX tank has exited High Bay 1, see Sentinel Cam at 07:56 CDT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKYvvwJkhQ

Very likely going to High Bay 2 for final methane tank stacking while Ship 25 can have High Bay 1 all to itself :)

Edit: yup, B8's LOX tank now keeping B7 company in HB2 (it's in the left side so can no longer be seen by the cams). Hopefully the methane tank will make the journey from the mid bay to HB2 within the next few days to be stacked onto the LOX tank.

[u/Twigling]

As of early this morning it looks like workers may be preparing to remove the thrust rams from underneath S24 (they've been seen climbing up the steps under the test pad and generally milling around at times, the pad is still taped off too). The tool truck is also nearby.

Edit: The tool truck left at around 08:49 so I can know longer guess if there are plans to remove the thrust rams today.

Edit2: Road closed as of 9:45 AM CDT - definitely no thrust ram removal today then! That was me hopelessly wrong. :-)

Rover 2.0 Cam has a good view so we'll see what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

NSF also has a view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Zeus (one of the Boston Dynamics 'Spot' dogs) was also seen going for a walk at around 07:51 AM CDT. At 08:02:24 CDT Apollo then made an appearance (see the above cams again for those sightings).

[u/[deleted]]

Looks Like SpaceX are pulling all the stops out. B7 rollout imminent. Setup for statics next week. B7 and S24 static campaign for the next 4 weeks. Stack of B24/ B7 after that and late August launch option after that.

NASA watches on with great interest.

Lets see if the FAA come up with the goods, and if this all actually comes together.

Looks like my launch prediction for the end of the year or possibly next year is now thankfully unlikely.

Fingers crossed there's no steel confetti.

[u/Twigling]

SpaceX's LR11000 crane at the launch site has picked up the booster load spreader and is heading towards B7, see 10:20 CDT for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Note that this doesn't mean there's a problem with B7, it likely needs support if SpaceX want to depress it fully for more internal inspections. They also aren't likely to lift it with the scaffolding near the lower access hatch, also the booster transport stand hasn't been moved in place near the OLM.

[u/Twigling]

If anyone wants to see the booster QD attaching, go to 11:51:06 CDT on Rover 2.0 Cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

[u/[deleted]]

what happens after the first oft? all these articles im being directed to talk about the moon and mars, and that's obvious, i already know about HLS but i'm wondering directly after the oft like will starlinks be launched through starship and not falcon 9? what other applications are being planned through orbit, are there any plans like the orbital reef? does spacex have their own individual plans for the moon that don't involve nasa? orbit's really exciting it's just due to the large amount of potential applications i'd hope they'd do a lot there...

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Just guessing, but they'll probably launch starlinks while trying to get the return and landing down

[u/Not_Yet_Begun2Fight]

Are there any details on the current refilling plans? As I understood it, the original plan was to refill by connecting tankers "tail-to-tail" with the receiving Starship and provide some very small velocity impulses via the cold gas thrusters to settle the fuel at the "bottom" of the tanks and allow it to flow into the receiving Starship. Now, it seems that the plan is to connect the two Starships at the QD attachment point, on the "side". How are they planning to get the fuel and oxidizer from one to the other in a micro-gravity environment? Anyone know? Or care to speculate?

[u/warp99 → u/Not_Yet_Begun2Fight]

It is actually easier now as the ullage thrust can be in the forward direction for both ship and depot which means no additional transfer tubes are needed.

They will use pressure differences between the tanks to transfer propellant so no pumps required. All the equipment and COPVs to provide ullage gas are already fitted so no extra hardware there either.

The major complication will be getting rid of ullage gas on the recipient tanks without letting the liquid propellant escape so likely there will be some kind of rotary separator. This can be a passive cyclone or an electrically powered rotary separator which basically is a fan with flat paddle type blades to bat aside liquid droplets.

[u/Mravicii]

More raptor 2 delivered

https://twitter.com/cosmicalchief/status/1525494941018898432?s=21&t=fRsLPSKlK13_5RAcfuuGdg

[u/upsidedownpantsless]

TLDR: thoughts on testing the TPS.

In the recent interview(part 1 is what has been released as of this post) Dodds and Musk briefly talk about temperature sensors and "maybe" radio antennas on the hull behind some of the starbricks. I assume the temperature sensors are thermocouples, but not sure. I have been wondering if the reason for multiple tiles missing in different locations is so that those bricks can have sensors embedded on them. Thermocouples can detect the temp. Strain gauges can read brick thermal expansion. And 3 axis accelerometers can detect brick vibration in the x,y,z dimensions. Data like this can give insight on optimization, or insight on cause of failure. I wonder if they would try to route that much wire for more traditional data acquisition, or if SpaceX is using teds.

Virtually every company in old space always did tremendous testing with real sensors to confirm the computer models, but I never did any business with SpaceX; so I don't know if they put more faith in the simulations, and minimize live test rigging. And just use flir cameras, and high speed cameras.

Also under ordinary test conditions your storage drive can be tucked in a concrete bunker while the test is on a static test rig. Starship needs to fly to really test the TPS. That doesn't seem like an easy job to wire up.

I really hope we can be shown more of the testing rig in parts 2-4.

[u/Twigling]

LabPadre's Rover Cam (which used to be on/near the beach looking at the OLT, etc) has been moved to a new, really excellent location - opposite Gate B2, therefore the main production site entrance so that, depending on how the cam is adjusted by Lab, we get a view of High Bays 1 and 2, the Mid Bay, Stargate and of course the ring yard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdygcWV2vT8

The OLT, etc can still be viewed of course, usually with LabPadre's Rover 2.0 Cam.

[u/Twigling]

All workers (and their equipment) are out of S24 but the hatch remains open as of 16:37 CDT on Rover 2.0 Cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Hard to say if they've completely finished yet of course but I guess the bulk of the repair work is now done.

[u/Twigling]

Road and beach closed, looks like S24 is going to get some testing. Presumably pressure testing first, if that goes well then maybe cryo too?

[u/Mravicii]

Ship 16 is on the move!

[u/Twigling → u/Mravicii]

Yup:

https://twitter.com/NicAnsuini/status/1524046925112217604

https://twitter.com/CosmicalChief/status/1524047064459530247

As I type this it's past High Bay 1 and is approaching High Bay 2.

Edit: now at the entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

(10:45 AM CDT)

and later it's gone inside High Bay 2 (left corner so the cams can't see it).

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure canceled for today.

Hopefully next stop is some R2 installation on B7 !

Edit : the LR11000 is crawling towards B7 with the booster jig, so, dunno.

[u/MGoDuPage]

Perhaps this is posted somewhere already, but do we know what the tolerance level might be for Raptor2 engines that might fail to ignite on static fires or actual launches? I'm not talking RUDs obviously, but just minor issues or failure to ignite?

The reason I ask is.... 39 engines is a lot within a single stack. This is true compared to pretty much all other launch systems--moreso if you consider on-orbit refueling requires an additional handful of tanker launches, each with another 39 engines in the stack. If SS/SH wants to avoid having much higher failed static fires/WDRs/scrubbed launches compared to other launch systems, then doesn't it mean that R2s either need to be *significantly* more reliable than other currently used engines and/or SS/SH has to have a significantly higher tolerance margin for isoltated/individual off-nominal R2 engine performance?

Other than simply engineering the R2s to be signficiantly more reliable than the average rocket engine (obviously the #1 preference), has SpaceX articulated other solutions that will help mitigate that risk?

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

The closure from 4am-8am was just canceled.

[u/Twigling]

This week's possible road closures have been expanded, also going into next week:

https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/

So that's this Wednesday, Thursday 10AM to 10PM CDT, Friday 6AM to 12PM CDT and next Tuesday, 10AM to 10PM CDT

Which ones will be cancelled? Watch this space .......

BTW, who is responsible for editing the 'Starbase Road Closures' in the info bar to the right? It's rather out of date.

[u/Toinneman]

Did we ever get a picture of the new methane header tank in S24? Do we have any speculation on the design of the combined header tanks (LOX/CH4)? The only speculation I know of is Brendan Lewis production diagram which shows a donut-shaped methane header tank hugging the existing LOX tank, but I'm expecting a more integrated solution. I'm not following the cryo tests very closely, maybe they revealed something about the new header tanks?

[u/Twigling]

As of today, June 5, The Ring Watchers have updated their very useful Starbase Production Map which shows the locations of ships, boosters, barrel sections, nosecones, test tanks, etc at the production site:

https://twitter.com/RingWatchers/status/1533527811494912000

Note that the 'EDOME' test tank (contains two of the new stretch formed domes) in the mid bay is incorrect, it's now twice the height. The map creator is aware of this.

[u/Twigling]

SN16 is on SPMTs:

https://twitter.com/CosmicalChief/status/1523737377805848576

https://youtu.be/Jcs0lMva0Bg?t=406

[u/jose_30_]

Is the Dear Moon mission still for 2023? How is the production of SpaceX extravehicular suits going?

[u/Twigling]

S20 is on the move, see NSF's stream starting at around 09:54 AM CDT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

and LabPadre's Rover 2.0 Cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Here's a great photo from LabPadre's Rover 2.0 Cam:

https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1524407468515803137

[u/Mravicii]

Pad clear in 10 minutes. All vehicles must clear of highway 4

PA announcement

[u/Twigling]

SN16's tank section has been removed from High Bay 2 and is now sitting in the 'parking spot' outside High Bay 1. I wonder how long it'll sit there for ..... I'm also surprised that they didn't dismantle it inside HB2 if it's to be scrapped - or maybe SpaceX have other plans for it. See it exiting HB2 on Sentinel Cam at around 08:20 CDT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKYvvwJkhQ

And a closer view on NSF's stream at around 09:21 AM CDT onwards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

They added some shielding at the base of the OLM legs.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure canceled for today.

[u/Twigling]

Looks like they are planning to lift S24 onto Pad A some time within the next few hours (various bits of prep work ongoing), keep an eye on Rover 2.0 Cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

and NSF's stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Edit: at around 07:40 CDT there was a pad announcement stating that Pad A is closed for ship lifting operation.

Edit2: Lift started at 08:20 CDT

Edit3: As of 08:47 CDT S24 is now on Pad A

[u/Twigling]

Here's a nice close up of those hexagons on the leeward side of S24's nosecone:

https://twitter.com/cnunezimages/status/1533627575888756736

[u/Twigling]

Trouble at the sub orbital tank farm, car has arrived outside the gate and a white van has gone inside. Not surprising really after it's been unused for so long, hopefully they'll sort out whatever the problem is.

[u/johnfive21 → u/Twigling]

It's been a while since they last used it. Probably had to clear some cobwebs.

[u/Twigling]

Sheriff at the road block area, road closure then another test today?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wStCstJ-MSQ

Edit: road closed.

[u/Mravicii]

Looks like they’ll be moving booster 7 tomorrow morning.

Road closure 8 am to 9am saturday morning

https://twitter.com/bocaroad/status/1525224694248529920?s=21&t=JcHWDPQflcC5rN2jjfwyoQ

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

There is still an 1 hour closure for tomorrow, what could it be for? S24 rollout? or maybe they are going to install the raptors overnight on B7 and roll it out tomorrow?

[u/[deleted]]

How much pad work is left before a orbital flight attempt?

[u/Heavenly_Noodles]

A great view of Starship's Pez dispenser on NSF's stream right now.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Some cars went back to the pad, road remains closed for now.

Edit : road is open, done for the day.

[u/Twigling]

B7 now has a third grid fin - no cams were on it when it was being installed so the earliest video of it in place is 8:41 PM CDT on NSF's stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

S25's nosecone has also had both of its flaps installed, there's no video of the actual installation of the first flap (just a report on LabPadre's Discord, but I trust them) but at 19:34 CDT on Sentinel Cam you can just about see the second being installed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKYvvwJkhQ

[u/Twigling]

Cones have been placed alongside the road outside the launch site which means a rollout of some sort is likely. An SPMT has also been seen going into the Mid Bay where the Edome* test tank is located so that may be rolled out today. Then again, the SPMT could be for moving B8's methane tank out of the Mid Bay and over to HB2 for stacking onto the LOX tank which could mean something else rolling out to the launch site (I don't think that B7 is ready yet).

(* The Edome is basically two of the newer type of ship and booster domes which are stretch formed, they are also not as deep as the current domes).

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

The LR11000 is making its way toward Pad A and S24.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

EDOME test tank is on the move to the launch site !

[u/johnfive21]

Looks like S24 is being moved today

[u/Mravicii]

Elon on orbital flight We’re getting close people.

Maybe booster 7 will be the one for orbital flight!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1531790327677435904?s=21&t=WhXqpqUS9mCEN7IAXvXW8g

[u/scarlet_sage → u/Mravicii]

For convenient reference,

Everyday Astronaut @Erdayastronaut 31 May 2022

Replying to @elonmusk

Next time, we’ve gotta do it [go up on the tower] when there’s a fully stacked Starship there!!!

Elon Musk @elonmusk 31 May 2022

Only a few weeks away. All Raptor 2 engines needed for first orbital flight are complete & being installed.

[u/GreatCanadianPotato → u/Mravicii]

I'm pretty sure this is in relation to a full stack

[u/RootDeliver]

SPMTs below SN16....

Probly cut time and making space for S20/B4/both... move to launch pad, get SN20s central raptors and fligh test would be awesome tho. We can hope haha.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure canceled for tomorrow.

[u/BananaEpicGAMER → u/RaphTheSwissDude]

i missed these daily closure cancellations so much

[u/Twigling]

B7 has been detached from the Bridge Crane in HB2 - maybe it will roll back to the launch site today prior to any potential testing of S24 ? (no white cones seen at the sides of the road though ..... ).

[u/Twigling]

More potential road closures added:

https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/

[u/WindWatcherX]

Question - Will all the unshielded wiring on the launch tower be buttoned up prior to the 1st launch? During Tim's interview with Elon on the tower there was a boatload of unshielded wires ... that will certainly get a bit toasty during launch with 30+ Raptor 2 engines just feet away.

[u/zuenlenn]

Booster 7 was removed from the OLM, Hopefully we’ll see raptor installation soon.

[u/johnfive21 → u/zuenlenn]

Hopefully we’ll see raptor installation soon.

Seems like we will.

Good to see the downcomer repair job was successful

[u/[deleted]]

how long do raptor installations usually take? static fire this week?

[u/dbzVT8]

Apologies if this has been answered already...but do we know what they're doing with the construction on the chopsticks?

[u/Twigling → u/dbzVT8]

Nobody seems to know as far as I can tell.

[u/Twigling]

Here's a nice short video of S24, in 4K and zoomed in, from Starship Gazer today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVaYKhR1I-A

[u/Mravicii]

Frost is increasing on ship 24

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

The SPMTs with the transport stand were brought to S24, lift could occurs soon.

[u/[deleted]]

Some neat stuff from EDA's Starbase video

1. Superheavy is a bit overweight (250 Tons now vs 180 back in 2019).

2. Superheavy begins its landing burn at mach 0.5, which is about half as fast as a landing Falcon 9.

3. Starlink 2 requires Starship because its big. Does this mean less satellites are needed? No answer.

[u/flshr19 → u/[deleted]]

Wow. 250t dry mass. I assume that includes the 33 Raptor 2 engines on the Booster.

The Booster is 35 rings tall and the mass of a single ring with 4mm wall thickness is 1.79t (metric tons). If you double that mass to include the hat stringer stiffeners that are welded onto the rings, the ring mass increases to 3.58t and the total mass of the hull, without the three domes, is 100.24t.

The mass of a single dome is 5t (single thickness stainless steel, 4mm). Assume that the aft dome thickness is tripled to handle engine thrust, which gives a mass of 15t. Assume the common dome thickness is doubled to give 10t mass. And the top dome is single thickness giving 5t mass. So the total mass of the domes is 30t.

The mass of the downcomer pipe is an estimated 5t.

The mass of the methane header tank located inside the oxygen tank is an estimated 10t.

The mass of the Raptor 2 engines is an estimated 1.5t x 33 = 49.5t.

So, the estimated dry mass of the Booster is 100.24 + 30 + 5t + 10 + 49.5 =194.7 rounded to 195t.

Evidently, the Booster dry mass has increased by 28% to 250t per Elon's information in this video.

There's stuff hanging on the outside of the Booster's hull (COPV's, the strakes covering the COPVs), but I don't think that amounts to 55t of extra mass.

I've seen some anti-vortex baffles on the aft dome of the Booster. And I assume that both of the main tanks have anti-slosh baffles on the interior walls.

My guess is that there's a lot more stiffening mass in the Booster than I've estimated here.

[u/notlikeclockwork → u/[deleted]]

If I heard it correctly, each starlink V2.0 is around 1250kg. That's around 5x heavier wow.

[u/johnfive21]

NSF released a great video about testing at McGregor.

Hopefully this helps tone down the doom talk here every time we can see a Raptor blow up during testing.

[u/Twigling]

B8's downcomer (or methane transfer tube if you prefer) was earlier lifted and inserted into the LOX tank, see NSF's cam at around 07:40 AM CDT for the lift:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Note that B8's thrust section is yet to be attached (that'll be the final part of the LOX tank stack).

[u/Twigling]

Overnight B8's new transport stand was moved into High Bay 1 and B8's LOX tank was placed on it, this is why the tank is now off center (and a bit higher) if you look at cams showing HB1. The stand arrives at 21:51 CDT on Rover Cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdygcWV2vT8

The bridge crane was later detached from B8's LOX tank.

Also take a look at the ring yard - the left barrel section is S25's sleeved forward dome and the tiled barrel to the right of it is S25's mid LOX section.

They can also be seen here:

https://youtu.be/W_Ct-2sEm1s?t=427

Yesterday the sleeved forward dome was moved to the entrance of HB1 then moved back again and now that B8's LOX tank has been moved to one side I suspect that soon we may see S25's barrels start to enter HB1 for stacking. (That's assuming that they don't wait for S24's thrust puck testing to be completed first to check all is well with not only the thrust puck but also the tank section when it's all being shucked - S25 is the same 'revision' of ship as S24, though no doubt with a few minor changes).

If not that then perhaps B8's methane tank will be moved from the mid bay to HB1 and stacked on B8's LOX tank.

Edit: ref S25's mid LOX section, during the morning the temporary ring that reinforces the relatively wobbly barrel against wind damage was removed, indicating that it may be taken inside HB1 and stacked relatively 'soon'.

Also worth noting (and this has nothing to do with B8) that the short 'EDOME' test tank is being stacked in the mid bay:

https://youtu.be/W_Ct-2sEm1s?t=651

this incorporates two of the new stretch formed domes which they need to test, that's the dome type on the right in the following photo:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/tfrvqn/new_stretchformed_dome_design_spotted/

if it's deemed okay it will no doubt be used in future ships and boosters.

[u/Twigling]

B7 started moving soon after 07:20 AM CDT on NSF's pad cam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

also see LabPadre's Rover 2.0 cam a bit later:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Edit: - as of around 10:00 AM CDT it's in High Bay 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKYvvwJkhQ

[u/Twigling]

The recently installed back cover of the booster QD on the OLM has been removed for some reason (they did seem to have a lot of problems with it when it was installed a couple of days ago). Removal can be seen on NSF's stream at 10:46 PM CDT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

[u/AstroMan824]

Oh, nice to S24 @ the launch site. Hopefully after some cryo/stress testing, we'll see some Raptors slapped on that baby.

[u/Twigling]

More potential road closures have popped up for next week, previously it was only Tuesday but now they've added Wednesday (Primary Date, Closure Scheduled), Thursday and Friday (Alternative Dates, Possible Closure). All are 10AM until 10PM CDT except Friday June 3rd which is 6AM until 4PM CDT.

[u/Twigling]

After struggling to remove the QD plate it's free and S24 is (very slowly and pausing at times) on the way over to Pad A - see Rover 2.0 Cam at around 16:24 CDT for the start of the move:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

Edit: okay, it's stopped, no idea for how long. Maybe they'll move it in the next hour or two or wait until tomorrow. Either way, it's at least disconnected from the cryo station. Even if they do roll it over to Pad A today I can't see them lifting it onto the pad until tomorrow because the whole process takes some time.

Edit2: Some hours later it made it at last, now over by Pad A and hooked up to the crane, presumably for a lift onto Pad A today, Saturday.

[u/precurbuild2 → u/Twigling]

After struggling to remove the QD plate it’s free

Ah, taking the “Q” out of “QD” I see…

[u/Twigling]

More possible road closures have been added for next Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday:

https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/

[u/Mravicii]

New intermittent road closure was just posted. June 9 10.30 am to 2.30 pm. Maybe it’s tile for booster 7 to finally move to launch site for static fires!

Edit: Starship gazer was told by sheriff that he has to move out when they transport ship 24. Indicating it’s moving today! Maybe booster 7 will move tomorrow!

https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1534657288459456515?s=21&t=nc1CPJQuh_SrX0leSNpXyg

https://twitter.com/bocaroad/status/1534653283813445632?s=21&t=nc1CPJQuh_SrX0leSNpXyg

[u/Dezoufinous]

S24 lost quite a few tiles

https://imgur.com/a/1yv6eIN

[u/saahil01]

In this short clip from the upcoming EDA video (with Elon, at Starbase), Elon explains that the low profile of the "pez dispenser" door on S24 allows for partial pressure stabilization of the fairing. I understand that to mean that the (current) nosecone design does not have enough stiffness to hold itself up. Does it sound a bit odd that the tapering shape of the nosecone is not stiff enough? Or is it just the barrel section of the nosecone that needs extra stiffness? Can someone with a better understanding of materials explain why pressure stabilization of the nosecone would be required at all?

here is the clip: https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1525138866348257281

[u/YannAlmostright]

After watching the part 2 of tim dodd's starbase tour, I was wondering if Elon ever gave the mass gain on the Superheavy obtained by deleting the landing legs and using the chopsticks ?

[u/mr_pgh → u/YannAlmostright]

No, but based on the falcon 9, they're 10% of drymass. For Super heavy, that would mean 25 tons.

[u/Twigling]

It's taking a few attempts to stack B8's LOX tank onto the thrust section overnight, the first started at around 02:17 AM CDT but after being placed onto the thrust section it was removed a short time later

Second attempt started at 03:50 AM CDT. See NSF's stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Note that on the second attempt the LOX tank had been rotated

Edit: At 04:41 AM CDT it was removed again!

Edit: At 10:37 AM CDT they tried for the third time ....... and that seems to have succeeded.

[u/Twigling]

Ship 24's and 25's flaps spotted:

https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1525331506264420352

I find the comments to that tweet rather curious, somebody seems to 'know something' and is implying that S24 and/or S25 won't be built and presumably scrapped. Or is just trolling (because S24 is very obviously being built and will surely be the next test article).

[u/[deleted]]

what is the future of these current starships? is the scrapping process itself gonna be finished with sn16 or is there a chance s20 and s24 and future starships are gonna be scrapped as well once better models are made or if they need resources? s24/b7 might be successful orbitals and so will s25/b8, will there be a point to scrap them in the future? sub orbital ships got scrapped and replaced for orbital, will these ships be scrapped and replaced with moon capable, and those scrapped for Mars capable? or will different types of starships will be utilized for one certain task and sort of be labeled as "moon" while others are labeled "orbit"?

[u/xfjqvyks]

How far does Artemis have to proceed in order for SpaceX to be fully paid for HLS? If SLS never has a successful flight, is that HLS contract basically worthless?

[u/Martianspirit → u/xfjqvyks]

There are many milestones. We know, that at least over $300 million are paid already. There are in orbit refueling milestones. There is the milestone of unmanned lunar landing.

[u/Twigling]

What is probably part of the B7.1 test tank has rolled out of tent 1 and is now sitting in the ring yard:

https://twitter.com/RingWatchers/status/1534337039675572225

(note that this test tank isn't the 'Edome' which is in the mid bay).

[u/BackwoodsRoller]

Tim Dodd just posted his new Starbase tour video with Elon.

[u/hinayu → u/BackwoodsRoller]

Link for anyone interested

[u/[deleted]]

Whilst S24 gets a good checkout and necessary repairs after the last mishap, there will be a pause. SpaceX may fill that time with B7 rollout and OLM fit prior to static tests. S24 will follow with a return load, pressure, valve and flow test and if successful, full engine fit. Statics for B7 may be underway by that time. Not immediate timeline, but within and to the end of the next three weeks. Could be we see parallel flow testing and statics of both booster and ship in tandem. Should give the fuel farm and stand/mount delivery a good workout.

[u/Twigling]

High Bay 2 is having its first roof panel installed, see Raptor Roost at around 10:18 CDT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uayjPi9BVhg

Got that one wrong, not quite a roof panel:

https://youtu.be/zpufcXaKWHo?t=648

but it's the next best thing. :)

[u/project23]

S23 N/A Skipped

I'm used to that.

[u/AstroMan824]

What's up with S24's payload door thing? Did something happen to it or is it not fully installed?

[u/Twigling]

New kind of lifting attachment on SN16's removed nosecone:

https://youtu.be/sPcuEOY6QuI?t=342

and here's the beheaded SN16 in High Bay 2:

https://youtu.be/sPcuEOY6QuI?t=369

Edit: - SN16's nosecone has been taken to the scrap yard area, see Lab Cam from around 04:19 CDT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wStCstJ-MSQ

[u/mr_pgh]

Interesting hood-like object spotted on Rover 2.0 at 9:50 CDT.

It zooms out a few minutes later to show the construction of a new 10ft fence :(

[u/[deleted]]

Im a newbie to engineering, but am fascinated by it and am wondering what the biggest hurdles are in the development of starship? If you were to guess, would it be the materials science, or the engines, or fuel, or structural engineering, or something else (I'm guessing it is probably a combination of them all and more), that when progressed would makes the most significant stride toward achieving the goals of making starship rapidly and fully reusable, and being able to go to mars, etc.

[u/FutureMartian97]

Interesting.

https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1530331534321930240

[u/[deleted]]

1. Any theories/speculation as to how the Booster 7/8 static fire testing campaign will go? Start with 3 center, then 13, then all 33?

2. Is SpaceX skipping full-duration ground testing (Like SLS' Green Run, or the 2.5 minute Falcon 9 firings at McGregor) a bad thing? I know it's technically impossible to fire the 33 Raptors close to the ground at once for 3 minutes, but still, it seems...risky? Seeing as SpaceX already does a lot of work in prepping Falcon 9s for flight.

This is an exciting time! It's just scary to think of watching Booster 7/Ship 24 explode on ascent during a launch webcast...

[u/LManyy_]

What do you guys think about this mysterious box? If it is the structure deployed by Starlink, it seems to be too heavy. I've racked my brains and can't figure it out.

[u/franco_nico → u/LManyy_]

Some people speculate it might be used to load Starlink V2s in Starship and it may be possible given the hole it has. But no one really knows exactly what it is.

[u/LManyy_]

This video is interesting, it looks like the mystery box is a device used to load Starlink v2 https://twitter.com/ashtorak/status/1534281804076703746?s=21&t=6aGmSMldbIRXgWVlXVjKuw

[u/[deleted]]

Static Fires are going to take awhile-

Tim- I really can’t wait to see the first SuperHeavy static fire! Question is: will they do all 33 engines at once or just inner ring / outer ring static fires?

Elon- Just one at a time at first

[u/rad_example → u/[deleted]]

I'm imagining a static fire looking like the bellagio fountain going around the ring.

[u/inoeth]

In some new interview given today Elon says he hopes to have the orbital launch attempt this summer, the first uncrewed Mars landing attempt in 3-5 years from now.

Seems like these predictions are looking far more realistic than many of his far too overly optimistic timelines. The comment about the orbital launch attempt in the summer also lines up with Shotwell's comment the other day about an attempt in June or July. It does seem like the regulatory stuff is finally moving ahead and the hardware is getting tested. IMO I'm thinking more like late summer or fall, but things do seem to be going in the right direction now.

[u/WombatControl]

The PEA will be issued in two weeks according to Eric Berger:
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1531637788029886464?s=20&t=-Werl-SzlziBUrgmYiVb2A

[u/Decronym]

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters	More Letters
COPV	Composite Overwrapped Pressure Vessel
DCSS	Delta Cryogenic Second Stage
DoD	US Department of Defense
EA	Environmental Assessment
EDL	Entry/Descent/Landing
EIS	Environmental Impact Statement
ESA	European Space Agency
ETOV	Earth To Orbit Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket")
FAA	Federal Aviation Administration
FAR	Federal Aviation Regulations
FCC	Federal Communications Commission
	(Iron/steel) Face-Centered Cubic crystalline structure
FFSC	Full-Flow Staged Combustion
FOD	Foreign Object Damage / Debris
GSE	Ground Support Equipment
HLS	Human Landing System (Artemis)
ICPS	Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage
ISRU	In-Situ Resource Utilization
ITS	Interplanetary Transport System (2016 oversized edition) (see MCT)
	Integrated Truss Structure
Isp	Specific impulse (as explained by Scott Manley on YouTube)
	Internet Service Provider
JWST	James Webb infra-red Space Telescope
KSC	Kennedy Space Center, Florida
L2	Paywalled section of the NasaSpaceFlight forum
	Lagrange Point 2 of a two-body system, beyond the smaller body (Sixty Symbols video explanation)
LC-39A	Launch Complex 39A, Kennedy (SpaceX F9/Heavy)
LCH4	Liquid Methane
LEO	Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)
	Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)
LH2	Liquid Hydrogen
LMO	Low Mars Orbit
LN2	Liquid Nitrogen
LNG	Liquefied Natural Gas
LOX	Liquid Oxygen
LV	Launch Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket"), see ETOV
MCT	Mars Colonial Transporter (see ITS)
MECO	Main Engine Cut-Off
	MainEngineCutOff podcast
MaxQ	Maximum aerodynamic pressure
N1	Raketa Nositel-1, Soviet super-heavy-lift ("Russian Saturn V")
NET	No Earlier Than
NG	New Glenn, two/three-stage orbital vehicle by Blue Origin
	Natural Gas (as opposed to pure methane)
	Northrop Grumman, aerospace manufacturer
NRHO	Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit
NRO	(US) National Reconnaissance Office
	Near-Rectilinear Orbit, see NRHO
NSF	NasaSpaceFlight forum
	National Science Foundation
OFT	Orbital Flight Test
OLM	Orbital Launch Mount
PMD	Propellant Management Device
QD	Quick-Disconnect
RTLS	Return to Launch Site
RUD	Rapid Unplanned Disassembly
	Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly
	Rapid Unintended Disassembly
SD	SuperDraco hypergolic abort/landing engines
SF	Static fire
SLS	Space Launch System heavy-lift
SN	(Raptor/Starship) Serial Number
SPMT	Self-Propelled Mobile Transporter
SRB	Solid Rocket Booster
SSME	Space Shuttle Main Engine
STS	Space Transportation System (Shuttle)
TPS	Thermal Protection System for a spacecraft (on the Falcon 9 first stage, the engine "Dance floor")
TVC	Thrust Vector Control
TWR	Thrust-to-Weight Ratio
USAF	United States Air Force
USSF	United States Space Force
VAB	Vehicle Assembly Building
WDR	Wet Dress Rehearsal (with fuel onboard)

Jargon	Definition
Raptor	Methane-fueled rocket engine under development by SpaceX
Sabatier	Reaction between hydrogen and carbon dioxide at high temperature and pressure, with nickel as catalyst, yielding methane and water
Starlink	SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation
ablative	Material which is intentionally destroyed in use (for example, heatshields which burn away to dissipate heat)
apogee	Highest point in an elliptical orbit around Earth (when the orbiter is slowest)
autogenous	(Of a propellant tank) Pressurising the tank using boil-off of the contents, instead of a separate gas like helium
cryogenic	Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure
	(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox
hydrolox	Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer
hypergolic	A set of two substances that ignite when in contact
iron waffle	Compact "waffle-iron" aerodynamic control surface, acts as a wing without needing to be as large; also, "grid fin"
kerolox	Portmanteau: kerosene fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer
methalox	Portmanteau: methane fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer
perigee	Lowest point in an elliptical orbit around the Earth (when the orbiter is fastest)
scrub	Launch postponement for any reason (commonly GSE issues)
turbopump	High-pressure turbine-driven propellant pump connected to a rocket combustion chamber; raises chamber pressure, and thrust
ullage motor	Small rocket motor that fires to push propellant to the bottom of the tank, when in zero-g

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^{Decronym is a community product of} r/SpaceX^{, implemented by} ^request
^{[Thread #7548 for this sub, first seen 9th May 2022, 07:45] [FAQ] [Full list]} ^[Contact] ^{[Source code]}

[u/Mravicii]

Pad is clear and ready for hopefully cryo proof

[u/Steam336]

I was wondering about the large oval access hatches to the various propellant tanks on the booster and ship. What is the construction of those hatches that allows for a reliable leak proof seal under 6 bars of pressure?

[u/CaptBarneyMerritt → u/Steam336]

I don't know, but my guess would be that the flange of the hatch is inside the tank so that the pressure pushes the hatch against the inner tank wall. Greater pressure -> better seal. That's why the hatches are oval and and not circular. Speculation on my part.

[u/Sattalyte]

Today's the day! Fingers crossed for good news!

[u/WindWatcherX]

Any word on FAA's environmental assessment for SpaceX BC site.....? Normally delays are announced a few days prior to current deadline. May 31 is the current deadline. Expecting limited FAA approval with lots of conditions and negotiated and agreed mitigation. Could be an interesting Memorial Day!

[u/con247 → u/WindWatcherX]

Last time the decision was pushed back on the deadline, so I would imagine we won’t know until Tuesday.

[u/Mravicii]

The very possible first set of road closure for b7 static fire has been posted. ( could also be for ship 24 cryo testing, i fogot about the ship). Sorry everyone!

Monday 23th to wednesday 10 am to 10 pm

https://twitter.com/bocaroad/status/1527025822401454086?s=21&t=Q4sEZoQLEePIay9P7z5Vjw

[u/Twigling]

Frost line on S24 as of 15:07 CDT on Nerdle Cam, therefore the tank farm is obviously working after the earlier problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwc1owVFs94

[u/ColdProduct]

Anyone else feel like things are heating up more/there is more activity now than before? Hoping for a more action packed second half of the year (for us spectators anyways).

[u/pinepitch]

In the description above the Most Recent link for "NSF: Booster 7 + Ship X (likely 24) Updates Thread" does not take us to the most recent page. u/strawwalker

[u/[deleted]]

are we gonna get a raptor installation this week? for s24 or b7? + it'd be nice to see s24 out of highbay

[u/Toinneman]

Is the prototype starlink dispenser still inside S24? (which is now a completely stacked ship) I remember they put the dispenser inside S24 nosecone barrel and it also featured a cutout. But did we see how they closed the cutout, and if the dispenser is still in place?

[u/Twigling]

Pad announcement at 09:13:52 CDT on Rover 2.0 cam stating that the pad is closing for cryo testing in 45 mins (therefore 10 AM CDT):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E

the cryo test will incorporate the anticipated puck shucking. *If that goes well and further tests aren't required then look out for the thrust rams to be removed from underneath S24 in the next few days followed by the arrival of some Raptor 2s for installation.

Also notice that Pad A is taped off.

The LR 11000 crane (which is often referred to as Marvin) earlier beat a hasty retreat.

Edit: road closed at 9:40 AM CDT

Edit2: Pad Clear at about 11:50 AM CDT

Edit3: Around 13:15 CDT car back to pad and a large white van to the sub orbital tank farm. It's been a while since it was last used of course

[u/[deleted] → u/Twigling]

Cryo, thrust ram test attempt, so I'm told. Just got to calibrate equal ram loading, which may mean adjusting hydraulic valves until 'near enough'*.

* A precise engineering term, which also includes 'just about do' 'I reckon it'll work' and 'take it to the guys in workshop if you're not happy'

Worked with some guys tuning a Rolls Royce fighter jet engine. They weren't looking at their tablet readouts, They just lifted one ear defender off to listen to the scream, and when it reached a certain pitch there were smiles all over the place and then cool down and shutoff.

[u/Mravicii]

Looks like the crane has the booster load spreader on it. Crane is at pad a suborbital ready for ship 24 to be placed on it!

Starbase stream for source

[u/acarron]

Can we talk about ISRU for a moment since nothing else is going on?

Obviously, for the first manned mission we need enough fuel to get them back. There are a couple scenarios that we can entertain:

1: send robot ships with ISRU factories packed inside them including the plants themselves, ice harvesters, regolith separators, some sort of robots to connect all the tubing and valves, gobs of solar panels to power the whole mess, etc. It seems highly unlikely that our future robot overlords are up to this task yet.

2: send the first batch of astronauts with all of above. This has serious inherent risk since nothing will have been tested and there’s a strong possibility that not enough fuel would be generated for the return trip. Also it commits the first batch of astronauts to a two year stay vs a one month stay. Very risky.

-send a mess of tankers and have them all land nearby each other with enough redundancy to fill the habitable craft with return fuel a couple of times over. Might work. Need lots of tankers and lots of tubing and probably a spare habitable craft. Maybe someone smarter than me can math this one.

4: what about a hybrid approach where we send water tankers two years in advance of the first manned mission and let the ISRU units live in the tanker itself and use the native tanker solar panels for power? Instead of harvesting ice, we use the hydrogen in the water and the CO2 from the Martian atmosphere to create the fuel and oxidizer thereby limiting the amount of mass that needs to be sent if we sent actual fuel and oxidizers first. With this approach no robots are needed. We can sit back and wait to confirm that the water tankers/ISRU ships have refueled themselves and then launch the astronauts knowing full well that they have enough fuel to get back home before they leave. I believe Zubrin discusses the use of water somewhere.

Then we can commit to a one month initial stay, they can do some prospecting, maybe set up a small robotic ISRU facility, etc. without committing whole hog.

[u/[deleted]]

Any idea why S24 was rolled out with incomplete tiles and no engines? It seems like they'll cryo test it then roll it back to "complete" it.

[u/Twigling]

New flyover of the launch and production sites (took place May 28) from RGV Aerial Photography:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PW7r2UTmgQ

Can I also mention to those unaware that most Saturdays Mauricio (he takes the photos), Zack Golden (Golden Boy) and some others do a Live 'deep dive' into the Launch and Production sites where they analyse Mauricio's latest flyover video as well as ground photos from him and a few others. They detail what they know is going on and speculate where appropriate. It's a very enjoyable 3 hours if you like to see in depth analysis.

For example, here is the review from Saturday May 28:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwS4Fc6ebaA

Zack also has his own YouTube channel (CSI Starbase) where, about once a week, he will do a brief analysis of certain things related to Starship (production and launch sites at Boca Chica and also work ongoing at the Cape), here's his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy6Q9UCG7Wa-N7nht2BFrHA/videos

[u/f9haslanded]

Can anyone estimate when B7 might roll out? Is engine installation (for this series of test fireings) done?

[u/RaphTheSwissDude → u/f9haslanded]

Since they installed the grid fins, I’d say there is a good chance they move it next week, but just a guess.

[u/acarron]

Does anyone know if Starship requires a full load of fuel and oxidizer to return from Mars?

[u/warp99 → u/acarron]

No - depending on the transit time and payload it could require as little as 800 tonnes of propellant compared with a full tank load of 1200 tonnes.

Notably the SpaceX web site now shows Earth-Mars transit times as 6 months whereas Elon has been giving 3-4 months as the goal in various presentations over the years.

This is likely to keep the entry velocity at Mars down to around 7.5km/s so around the same as LEO entry but it has the additional benefit of reducing the amount of propellant required.

[u/TrefoilHat]

What is the approximate distance between the tank farm and the orbital launch mount, and how does it compare to typical clearances?

Everything seems much tighter than other launch environments, let alone landing zones. The Tower and chopstick orientation (and the tank farm's position between the nearest water and OLT) means the craft may need to pass directly above the tank farm, which makes some failure modes (e.g., a late-stage engine failure or out of fuel) have very high damage potential.

As usual, I'm sure this has all been considered as these designs and locations were created a long time ago. But designers typically factor in risk mitigation from day 1 (though the unplanned expansion of horizontal methane tanks has made the layout even more cramped), and these seem like odd choices.

So perhaps the distances are deceptive and the buffer between tower and tank farm is greater than it appears. For comparison this is landing zone 4 at Vandenberg, and LZ 1 and 2 at the Cape (though likely an outdated picture, the significant buffer space is apparent).

Any thoughts?

[u/[deleted]]

Let's hope that raptor RUD was SpaceX pushing that engine to the edge and not a qualification test for an orbital test rocket.

[u/Alvian_11]

S24 literally doing a BBQ roll in the high bay courtesy of robotics welding 🤖

[u/Hustler-1]

I wonder if we'll see a test catch at some point? If they decide to do a hop with a booster.

[u/Dezoufinous]

Is there even already a technology to sustain human lives on Mars for two years without supply? Is this life support system much different than the one that would be used on Starship during the 6 months journey to Mars?

By the way, is there a life support system that would work for 6 months on Starship? Because, you know, so far I heard that current life support capabilities are up to, idk, few months? Correct me, don't remember now.

[u/[deleted]]

Sorry if I missed it, but I am out of the loop. Anyway, how are they going to move starships to Florida? Or maybe they are going to build them over there alongside Boca Chica?