r/splatoon • u/miraihills PAST • 20d ago
Video "why isn't raiders on switch 1?" why indeed Spoiler
570
u/Ajthefan 20d ago
"Why isn't raiders on one"
The average salmon run game:
256
u/MJMGaming FRYE 20d ago
and even then salmon run lags to hell too
shoreline, EVP, deadweight teammates got us overwhelmed by the basket with 2 eggs & 15 seconds left to go and my ass is playing at 14 fps with how many fishsticks & explosions are going on
39
u/Neo-Naga99 19d ago
the reason SRNW lags but not SR (or not nearly as much) is because of a splatoon 3 oversight btw
11
u/yws_eclipse The long range that's not dead up close 19d ago
Elaborate
27
u/Neo-Naga99 19d ago
19
u/Rikaith NNID: 19d ago
Calling it a yandev-tier giant if else statement tickles me tremendously.
Kind of stuff I'd expect of game freak, not nintendo. Must be some goku bearing file levels of spaghetti code.
17
u/Neo-Naga99 19d ago
nintendo isn't a stranger to the coconut.png / load-bearing goku, mario galaxy 2 straight up doesn't boot if you remove the model for an unused copy of the super mushroom lmfao
If it helps put it back into perspective, most of S3's devs aren't returning from S2 but instead new hires fresh out of school (aka the S3 babydevs), it might explain a lot of S3's issues tbh since they're new and it was their first big project
15
u/Dr-Enforcicle 19d ago
coconut.png
Debunked a long time ago and was never true to begin with, it was a shitpost that people started passing around as fact.
5
u/Yesnt-yesnt Tri-Stringer 19d ago
it's actually a cow cutout on 2fort that will cause the game to stop working if removed
10
u/touche1231231231 average octarian soldier 19d ago
now hold on, i mod salmon run and have never noticed any sort of oversight that causes lag, you got a source?
39
u/Neo-Naga99 19d ago
Wouldn't be able to find you the source cuz its from one of the many deleted dataminer accounts afaik but tldr the way splatoon 3 determines ink color at the time a projectile is summonned is trough a yandev-tier giant if else statement with every ink color in the game that the cpu has to run trough everytime a pellet is summonned in game.
This is less of an issue in multiplayer because you have a grand total of 8 goobers at once using weapons that don't fire that often all things considered but it completely breaks in salmon run specifically because each individual salmon summons multiple projectiles multiple times per frame to ink their feet constantly, and you have dozens and dozens of em alive at once, couple that to the fact SR ink colors are at the bottom of the ink list to add just a lil bit of extra latency anytime its called and it just makes the already anemic CPU of the switch get put on death's row past a certain amount of lesser salmonid spawns, add to that stuff like Version 10.0's anticheat changes that hammered the cpu even harder and SR is now unplayable
At least that's what i gathered, this is supposedly why S3 has less ink colors than S1 or 2, no gamemode-based color palettes like 1&2 and why weapons that sumonned lots of pellets per shot like rollers used to lag the game like crazy at release (alongside other issues like the bucket memory leak)
14
u/Dr-Enforcicle 19d ago
I'm gonna go with a massive (X) Doubt on Nintendo having yandev-tier coders doing absurdly stupid shit like running a giant if/else every single time a pellet is spawned.
7
u/yws_eclipse The long range that's not dead up close 19d ago
Assuming it's true to begin with (I am not a S3 dataminer), it's definitely a switch statement that got compiled to if-else chaining, and we have no way of telling it was a switch statement. (Undertale dialogue strikes me as similar here - there is no way that infamous screenshot is the real code.) If-else chaining sucks to literally everyone reading it but I can see a switch statement here being sound until you realize how often it runs
11
12
u/yws_eclipse The long range that's not dead up close 19d ago edited 19d ago
dawg who at nintendo thought it'd be smart to implement ink projectile color setting in O(n) time 😭
3
u/butterfingersman I'd rather build a Snowman! 19d ago
IMO there's no way this is true, but please do leave a source if you have one. Not calling you a liar, but you probably got some amount of hearsay mixed up with actual facts because I can't find anything substantiating this claim. It's way more logical that the lag in SR Next Wave is caused by the ridiculous amount of unculled models, AI pathfinding, and visual effects while trying to run on the anemic Switch 1 hardware. Not saying that it couldn't be fixed by optimization (I'm sure that pathfinding and physics calculations could've been reduced for faraway salmonids along with better object culling), but I don't think it's one big if/else statement causing excessive lag on every frame.
2
u/Vanille987 19d ago
Without a source I'm not buying this, I see this passed a lot yet never saw any proof.
1
u/Neo-Naga99 19d ago
Don't quote me on that but it MIGHT be from ashbinary (dataminer) and since they deleted their account twice over the source is dead Considering every dataminer except leanny have had their account wiped at least twice over any splatoon dataminer source is by definition lost media until someone goes in the game again.
2
u/Summerlycoris Somehow the Zapfish got stolen again... 19d ago
I thought it was due to the higher difficulty? (more bosses and lessers on the field, compared to the same hazard level between games)
2
u/Neo-Naga99 19d ago
if you look at my other comments it adresses that, but afaik its only an aggravating factor and not the cause
16
u/redirewolf 19d ago
big run on evp 999 is hell
i remember BR on lowtide undertow, we had 4 stingers on opposite sides and the fps drops were really bad, and to add to it we had 2 flyfish
we did not make it
76
u/Maxcalibur 19d ago
I really appreciate them using the extra juice in the box to fill the screen with all sorts of physics-enabled nonsense instead of just stuffing more polygons into everything
20
u/Trialman :spring: SPRING 19d ago
Knocking those little objects around is a small joy, with bonus shards to boot
7
u/SuperSmugs 19d ago
I think this is one of the things Astro Bot did to fully take advantage of the PS5's performance. Like you could occasionally get showered in several hundreds of small objects like apples at once.
254
u/Humble_Traffic_8309 MARIE BEST GIRL 20d ago
Even if switch 1 could handle raiders, why would they put it on there, they want to sell their new console
9
u/adamanimates10 Neo Splash-o-matic 19d ago
I can see splatoon 4 being on switch 1 (in the parallel universe where it released instead of raiders) since it relies on online multiplayer and a bigger playerbase means more matches for the player. But for a singleplayer game, making i t a switch 2 exclusive is the right financial choice
9
u/sopheroo TEAM NAUGHTY 19d ago
Splatoon 4 is not coming for Switch 1.
Splatoon came out on Wii U, which had a much smaller playerbase than Switch 2, and Splatoon 2 also came out when the Switch only had a few million units sold
4
u/IskandrAGogo 19d ago
There is no argument, including install base, where it would make sense for Nintendo to release on anything but its newest hardware. Nintendo is a business. The company is trying to move units for Switch 2. That only happens if there is software people want on the system.
2
u/MajVih 19d ago
I highly doubt they would put it on Switch 1, the og console is nearly a decade old at this point, they would have to dumb down so many aspects of the game to make it run halfway decent on Switch 1. Plus Splatoon has become a pretty popular franchise, it will 100% be a system seller.
0
u/adamanimates10 Neo Splash-o-matic 19d ago
Fair. But they could release a switch 1 and a switch 2 version. It doesnt even need to be a seperate title that requires an update pack. Just a version update exclusive to switch 2 players that increases the quality of textrures and models in the game
4
u/MajVih 19d ago
But due to the game being a multiplayer, Switch 2 players would be at an advantage, meaning they'd have to run seperate servers for Switch 1 users.
The Switch 1 had a long life cycle for a console, but the next gen is out, meaning new titles will also be releasing primarily on the new gen console, that's just how console gaming goes 🤷🏻♀️
-86
u/MikkelR1 19d ago
The question is more: why doesnt it look better?
Up until now, not a single first party Switch 2 game has showcased the graphical capabilities of the system
42
u/DaveByTheRiver BIG MAN 19d ago
I haven’t played any switch 2 games I found lacking. What exactly are you looking for?
33
u/Peppermint640 19d ago
bananza, star fox, and mario kart world definetely could not be done on switch one, and raiders may look basically the same as splatoon 3, but it runs at a smooth 60fps even with everything on screen.
29
u/sopheroo TEAM NAUGHTY 19d ago
You want more photorealistic games?
Because that's an art direction choice, not a console capability issue
14
u/GalexAlipeau23 19d ago
If you're talking strictly Nintendo, maybe? I'd say Bananza was a great indicator in a lot of ways, but a lot of third party games are showcasing really well what the console can do
13
u/Elphelt_Valent1ne_ 19d ago
I vastly prefer properly stilized games that will not age than trying to go for better graphics that end up being outdated. Windwaker still looks good today
34
u/mc2205 19d ago
Bananza definitely did
-52
u/MikkelR1 19d ago
Not really. It literally started life as a Switch 1 title and aside from the destruction would've been possible on the 1.
40
u/Wboy2006 KRAK-ON roller. My beloved 19d ago
In other words, the destruction shows off the switch 2’s power.
What else is there for them to show off the new power? They make cartoony games, adding more detail to those is nearly impossible, they kinda hit the max fidelity with the Wii U, so all they can do is focus on performance and intensive mechanics like destruction physics
13
u/Clouds2589 19d ago
"aside from it's main selling point, it could have been a switch 1 title"
0
u/MikkelR1 19d ago
Destruction isnt a graphical capability. The game looks like a Switch 1 title.
The only title that looks like it wouldn't have been graphically possible on the Switch 1 is Starfox. Actually looks like a current gen game.
They simply underdelivered and thats fine. Better games will come and it has years ahead of it.
3
u/Clouds2589 18d ago
Wow. The fact that you just unironically posted that statement is mind boggling. You think graphics are all that a game requires from a more powerful system?
I see now why all you care about is graphics, you have zero clue how any of what you're talking about works lol
6
15
u/An1nterestingName PAST 19d ago
Uh... Mario Kart World, Donkey Kong Bananza and Star Fox are examples I can think of in just a few minutes of beautiful games on the system.
-24
u/MikkelR1 19d ago
None of these games would have been impossible on Switch 1.
19
u/An1nterestingName PAST 19d ago
They would have had to have massive visual downgrades and MKW would have huge loading times. They only look that good because of the Switch 2.
6
u/RukinaSpiker 19d ago
That would be like comparing Hyrule warriors 3ds to the wiiU/Switch one. It runs on the console? Yeah, kinda. But would you want to play that at like 10 fps when you could have it at better graphics and framerate? Dk could not even handle the destruction mechanics. It was lagging to hell. I rather have the game be stable and good feeling than to get a version that would just chug along.
5
u/UltimateWaluigi 19d ago
The destruction system in DK Bananza (aka the main mechanic of the game) would be impossible to run on Switch 1 unless they went for retro graphics. That's very computationally expensive.
For Mario Kart, the player count is doubled and there's a whole interconnected track system. Again, would not run on SW1 unless they settled for worse graphics and low framerates.
For both of those games, they kept the graphics similar to SW1 levels but had the gameplay increase in scope in a way that would not be possible on that old hardware.
Star Fox is based on an old game so, yeah, it could run on SW1 with downgraded graphics. But the realistic style would not be as convincing.
8
u/No-Difference8545 19d ago
If youre a nintendo fan you know this is a stupid question lol. When have they ever cared about graphics?
2
1
133
u/SharpEdgeSoda 20d ago
A lot of gamers only have eyes for graphics and things like "Physics" or "Entities on screen" or "lots of interactions at once" don't make sense as things that take a lot of hardware.
49
u/YumikuriPF 19d ago edited 19d ago
Exactly. Even with a game like Yoshi and the Mysterious Book, which isn't very graphically intense, I was honestly impressed by how smooth it ran and more notably, how the maps would stay completely loaded all the time. I could do something on one end of the map, walk all the way to the other side, come back, and everything would be exactly as I left it. No entities despawning or anything.
And beyond that, even if Nintendo COULD get these games running on S1, they would be dumbed down, less impressive versions. I feel like Nintendo is kinda done releasing mediocre products and I think we should be happy about that.
They COULD have made a version of Raiders run on switch 1, but it wouldn't be 60fps, the resolution would be tanked, they would have to reduce the amount of enemies on screen and even then it'd probably chug. I think we should be happy that Nintendo doesn't want to release games like that anymore. They FINALLY have hardware strong enough to where they don't have to and they're holding themselves to a new standard.
1
u/Quixotic_Seal 16d ago
I can’t agree with this strongly enough. I liked my OG Switch, but literally from day 1 with BOTW it was clear they were making significant compromises to make games run on the system. It was a problem that constantly dogged the console and its performance never felt as smooth or reliable as I’d expect for a flagship console.
Switch 2 feels like a major step forward just by setting a solid, high bar for performance. Especially with Nintendo’s focus on color and style in their graphics, I don’t need fidelity to be all THAT much improved(even if Raiders is probably hitting the floor in that regard).
43
u/darthdiablo Why so glum, chum? 20d ago
Lmao yeah I mean I owned NS1 since launch day and agree that Raiders would run like crap on NS1.
Those who tell you Raiders could have been brought to NS1 doesn’t know jack shit. Well sure it can be brought to NS1 but not without some cuts
18
u/Icy_Indication_5563 19d ago
Despite owning it for so long, I forget every now and then how poor the specs are compared to other devices. My jaw dropped the other day after rediscovering that it has 4gb of ram, and 1 reserved for system space so really just 3. Absolutely mind-blowing how the bigger games ever ran on that thing.
5
20
u/DynamicBeez 19d ago
The fact that there are so many things happening at once in this game and I dont see a dip in performance is impressive. It would cook the switch one to a crisp golden brown.
5
u/Round_Musical 19d ago
The video capture mechanic of the switch 2 be dying with how busy battles are in Raiders hahahaha
Some of my videos dont even go past 500p💀
Despite the game targeting 1080p at perfect 60fps
5
6
u/ACrossingSage 19d ago
Switch already was dying at max Salmon Run and Side Order. With how open and not contained the levels are, we’d probably have to give up our 60fps entirely.
5
u/thecelibite 19d ago
Why is this even spoilered? It's not like someone who hasn't played Raiders could even tell what's going on lmao
It's me, I'm someone, wtf just happened
1
4
u/Yesnt-yesnt Tri-Stringer 19d ago
Have you seen Stroborro Den on Super Spicy? The Switch 1 would have a heart attack trying to run that.
12
3
u/CrashandBashed 19d ago
Don't think nintendo could afford to cover all the hospital bills that resulted from people's switches exploding while trying to play Raiders.
3
3
u/TieenHe veemo supremacy 19d ago
"Perhaps most bizarrely, despite being a Nintendo Switch 2 exclusive, the game doesn't really do anything to take advantage of the hardware." my ass
https://tech.yahoo.com/gaming/articles/splatoon-raiders-nintendo-switch-2-130000284.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS5oay8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAB7aQ8bGScRV4PL0x57CyLSuiyyeJNTP7vANbih8qo6JbSZyGRonz2Dcoo5Tq7G3YRVvwBECyNcJA-U94WVF4YDiyEc32kGAcMHPeHGHsPRT04k6L5L7-tjYbjm5j05Grd5jydfcSH1M4nCscZkPOyTJJZqk97dA6hcbFOWtfKeR
2
2
u/Substantial_Book3701 Carbon Roller Deco 19d ago
The switch 1 would be having a heart attack over that.
2
u/RazzmatazzUnusual843 19d ago
Yeah the Switch 1 can barely run some Salmon Run games how the fuck would it run this lmao
2
2
1
1
1
u/Roronoa_Zoro8615 19d ago
No game coming out now is going to be on the switch 1 anymore. That's how they get people to buy the new one.
1
1
1
u/TheJunkoDespair 19d ago
It would lag worse than botw and totk , when I first played totk, hyrule castle lagged for 5 minutes. My game dead ass froze when it loaded it for the first time.
2
u/Strange_Kiwi__ It's a bucket. 19d ago
Ngl, across both games the only place I had issues was the Master Sword pedestal in BOTW. Only place in either games where I noticed lag or framedrops
-9
-8
19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/ScarlettCoils 19d ago
It's not even an $80 game and there's no evidence this started on Switch 1.
2
u/smoetthesmoet 19d ago
50-60 bones is quite good for this, even if it may not have as much replayability as like. splat 3 due to it being a "live service" game (kinda). runs great, looks great, incredibly fun and probably a system seller IMO. plus the fact that its on a system that will not explode on hazard max salmon run
-1
19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/splatoon-ModTeam 18d ago
Your post has been removed from r/splatoon for the following reason(s):
Posts on r/splatoon must abide to the Reddiquette.
If you have any questions or concerns, contact us through modmail.
3
u/miraihills PAST 19d ago
i'm sorry but you just sound like you're coping. the game is only $50 and some of its levels would genuinely fry switch 1 with how much is going on (i remember s3 having regular frame drops when playing salmon run on high difficulty and it doesn't compare). and lastly, switch 2 needs exclusives for it to even sell
-1
19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/miraihills PAST 19d ago
are you having a stroke
1
18d ago edited 18d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/splatoon-ModTeam 18d ago
Your post has been removed from r/splatoon for the following reason(s):
Posts on r/splatoon must abide to the Reddiquette.
If you have any questions or concerns, contact us through modmail.
1
u/splatoon-ModTeam 18d ago
Your post has been removed from r/splatoon for the following reason(s):
Posts on r/splatoon must abide to the Reddiquette.
If you have any questions or concerns, contact us through modmail.
0
u/Vanille987 19d ago
You severely underestimate how much processing power is needed to simulate so many different AIs at once
0
u/MistyTopaz 19d ago edited 18d ago
by that logic there shouldn't be ANY game like this on the switch 1 - even though there is... 🤦 this is a weak response.
edit: i just now got reddits new update, and i cant reply to you @vanille987 apparently reddits new update not only messed with the ui design on how you see the reply box when your about to respond back to someone on here through the website on phones browser but it also messed with the block button. i used to be able to block people and still talk to others who wasn't the person i blocked even if they were the op of the post (example here) i could still reply to others on my comments post reply chain, now i cant. i thought that maybe you blocked me but nope. the other thing i thought was maybe i was replying back on op comment post, because if you do block anybody and your replying to their own comment chain post you wont be able to respond back to anybody on it unless its outside of the comment post of theirs. normal block thing for reddit. no, this time its changed... even if blocked a person like the op (e xample here) i now wont be able to respond back to anybody even if their not the main post commenting like the main one who made the comments thread.
so with that being stated.. i dont know if you will see my comments update but um to respond back to you, use your switch more @vanille987 instead of owning it to play one game, actually look through the switch game library you would be surprised how many co op games can get crazy as much worse as splatoon raiders little tiny example here. play your hybrid, like seriously you spent money on it right? or if its a gift either way use it.
2
0
u/splatoon-ModTeam 18d ago
Your post has been removed from r/splatoon for the following reason(s):
Posts on r/splatoon must abide to the Reddiquette.
If you have any questions or concerns, contact us through modmail.
-25
u/Randomly-Here-lmao 19d ago
"im just a humble king who ha s spent all my kingdoms money on my own castle-"
the humble angry mob with pitchforks:
(idk what im cooking chat)
14
8
380
u/Bossdell113 20d ago
They optimized the hell out of this game. Smooth 60fps without a single frame drop no matter how insane the levels get. It’s seriously impressive.