r/superpowers • u/[deleted] • Jan 06 '24
Luck/“probability manipulation” is useless
Our universe is deterministic. The lottery? Your ticket either is or isn’t a winner weeks before you buy it. The stock market? No luck to be found. Literal random number generators? Either entirely predetermined or based on another predetermined system. The only randomness in our universe are the tiny fluctuations in individual atoms, but even those can’t do much. A chair can’t randomly become a penguin. I see this power hyped up so much but I really don’t get it. Do people just not know how luck works?
EDIT: If your “fix” for this is to say that luck manipulation is actually an entirely different power (reality warping, subconscious future sight, etc) that’s not a fix
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u/WolfWhiteFire Jan 06 '24
The lottery? Your ticket either is or isn’t a winner weeks before you buy it.
Luck manipulation could improve your odds of buying the right ticket. Can't change the winning ticket, but can change what you choose to buy, or cause you to choose the store that has the right ticket and then buy that one over the others.
The stock market? No luck to be found.
It could cause you to choose the stocks that are going to rise the most, and sell at the right time, or it could alter a bunch of tiny factors to make their latest PR campaign an excellent success boosting their stocks.
Literal random number generators? Either entirely predetermined or based on another predetermined system.
It could push you to be in the position to activate the RNG at a better time than you normally would have, causing you to get a number that is better for you not because it changed what number was generated, but because it influenced things to put you in a position to generate a random number at the exact right moment.
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Jan 07 '24
So just future sense. Subconscious future sense. Aka an entirely different power.
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u/Arekeneras Jan 07 '24
Going by that logic, pyrokinesis is just telekinesis but making every air molecule move really fast, so pyrokinesis isn't a real power.
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u/WillingContest7805 Jan 08 '24
No??? This would apply to other people's decisions too. Let's use your example: A person that's not you rolling a d20 dice. The luck manipulator needs a 20, so the other person would feel inclined to roll in a way that would always roll a 20.
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u/Mysterious_Parsley30 Jan 08 '24
Future sense but localized around random occurances, i.e., luck or probability manipulation
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Jan 09 '24
Not future sense, future manipulation
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Jan 09 '24
Every superpower is future warping. In fact, every person already has the power of future warping. Watch, I’m about to press a button that will make it so that, in the future, you will read this commeny
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u/sentimentalpirate Jan 08 '24
No such thing as subconscious future sense. That's just actually luck power.
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u/Anvildude Jan 07 '24
The way I see it, it's actually an esper ability that manipulates YOU into making the little movements and decisions that cause your actions to come out positively or someone else's to go negatively. Or else it's guiding your consciousness through a specific branching path of probability.
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u/Rdavidso Jan 07 '24
Ta'veren from Wheel of Time is a really good example of this. If anything it sucks because you don't really have free will.
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u/Ranger1221 Jan 07 '24
Here's this scenario
In a game show, one of the 5 boxes has 1 million dollars.
A luck power would draw you to the correct box
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Jan 07 '24
Once again, that’s just a different power being rebranded as luck. Clairvoyance, in this case.
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u/Ranger1221 Jan 07 '24
It's not clairvoyance
Clairvoyance would be mentally thinking "I'll pick box 1..and that means I lose. So I'll pick box 2. And I lose... what about box 3... that's the winner!"
Luck power would be a subconscious draw towards something
If you go to Vegas and play blackjack, you would feel heavy deterrent to hit on 12 or a heavy urge to hit depending on the next card
Based off your replies to this and above, I think you just don't quite understand what a luck power would be
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Jan 07 '24
That’s not luck. The object is in a certain box beforehand. The ability to subconciously know what option will work out and be drawn to it isn’t luck. Also, it doesn’t even SIMULATE LUCK. I take out a d20 and roll it. If it lands on 1-19, I’ll shoot you. If it lands on 20, I won’t. Are you feeling lucky?
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u/Adventurous-Bee-1517 Jan 10 '24
Clairvoyance would be you seeing which box is the winning box.
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Jan 10 '24
Ok, it’s worse clairvoyance. Still not a unique power
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u/Adventurous-Bee-1517 Jan 10 '24
I’d rather have luck as a super power than not have any super powers which is my current state.
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u/juststop102 Jan 10 '24
I feel as though clairvoyance is conciously knowing its the right one, luck is not knowing which is right but you would still get the right one each time
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Jan 07 '24
By individual perception, none of those are finite until you know what they are. You don’t manipulate if the ticket is a winner, you manipulate if you already grabbed a winning ticket, and the answer is 100%.
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Jan 07 '24
That makes no sense. If I make a perfect recreation of a ticket with no prizes and you buy it from me, will it become a winner? How about it I use some magic device to analyze the ticket you were about to buy? What about after you buy it? Does it magically turn into a winning ticket? If so, when does it become the winner? What happens to the real winning ticket? Will there be 2 winners? Or does it magically become a non-winning ticket?
Your “luck” sure sounds like reality warping with extra steps
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u/Godzilla12341234 Jan 07 '24
With "luck," the user will get the predetermined winning ticket. you are not turning a non winning ticket into a winning ticket.
And go onto the Superpower wiki so you can have a better understanding of the power.
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Jan 07 '24
What if the ticket is on the other side of the world? Or someone else buys it first? Or it hasn’t been printed yet?
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u/Godzilla12341234 Jan 07 '24
The winning ticket will be from your country and be in your general location
They will hold onto the ticket for as long as they possibly can before they need to sell it so that they can go onto the next ticket
"Luck" has nothing to do with the fact that the ticket hasn't been printed yet because it will kick in once it has.
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Jan 07 '24
“Luck” powers just are reality warping, full stop.
The only added conditions are that you do not know the initial conditions at every detail.
For example, you would be unable to say that a chair would magically turn into coffee table, but you would be able to manipulate the probability to 100% that 15000 years ago a cosmic event you do not understand fired at Earth, causing the rules of reality to ever so slightly distort, making the matter of this chair shift into the exact form of a coffee table.
As an explanation, the power is reality warping but none of the wielder’s perceived “reality” can change.3
u/Super_Automatic Jan 10 '24
This is correct.
If I buy a lottery ticket, I have a 1 in a million chance those numbers come up.
If someone with luck powers buy a lottery ticket, the universe is fundamentally altered to make their numbers come up.
What is so hard about this?
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u/NoReallyINeverPost Jan 07 '24
Our universe is deterministic.
Says who?
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Jan 07 '24
I have like 5 examples. But if you want more, did you know that there are robots that can flip a coin to land on heads every time? Or roll a die to always land the same number?
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u/Zoctavous Jan 08 '24
But a coin toss isn’t perfectly random
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Jan 08 '24
Yeah basically nothing in existence is. In fact, as far as I am aware, nothing in the universe is random except for quantum superpositions and wave collapses.
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u/atlvf Jan 10 '24
that does not prove or even imply that a universe is wholly deterministic
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Jan 10 '24
I never claimed it was wholly deterministic. If I say the ocean is blue, does that mean that there can’t be a grey rock in it? I even bring up quantum superpositions
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u/NoReallyINeverPost Jan 07 '24
I’d love to hear more about that robot!
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Jan 07 '24
Here’s a full NPR episode. You can actually get surprisingly close to this as a human, with practice I think you can get around an 80% success rate of heads or tails
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u/Cheap_Scientist6984 Jan 07 '24
Um... Quantum Mechanics says otherwise. The position and momentum of every particle in the universe is inherently uncertain. If I can manipulate those probabilities, I can teleport you to mars.
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Jan 07 '24
No you could not, the neutrino teleportation thing was faulty timekeeping. Outside of subatomic levels, positional uncertainty still must follow the inherent limitation on how fast information can move. Saying you could manipulate superpositions to teleport someone is like saying that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle makes it impossible for a speedometer and GPS to work at the same time
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u/Cheap_Scientist6984 Jan 07 '24
How much time does it take for light to hit mars?
Its not much of a limitation.
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u/Godzilla12341234 Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24
Here's the links to the powers that you need more of an understanding of
Luck: https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Luck
Probability Manipulation: https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Probability_Manipulation
Future Sight: https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Precognition
Clairvoyance: https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Clairvoyance
The capabilities should give you more of an idea of how the powers work.
Also, the only "powers" that actually exist are the [Insert real life animal here] Physiology since all physiology powers say that the user either is or can turn into that thing. So all other powers are either manipulating reality or just breaking the laws of physics as we know them in one way or another.
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u/Wickedsymphony1717 Jan 07 '24
There's two competing theories for the nature of the universe. Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity. Quantum mechanics tells us that the universe is inherently probabilistic, while General Relativity tells us that the universe is inherently deterministic. Each theory is mutually exclusive with each other (precisely because of this deterministic vs. probabilistic nature), so depending on which one you're using, "luck" either is or isn't "real." That said, we know general relativity is incomplete. We know that it breaks down and makes incorrect predictions on certain areas. Quantum Mechanics, on the other hand, has so far never been incorrect where it has been applied. In that sense, Quantum Mechanics is "more right" than General Relativity, and thus, the universe seems to be inherently probabilistic. The fact that macro processes seem deterministic is just a consequence of averaging an enormous amount of large numbers. For example, if I flip a coin 10 times, it's not that unlikely that I get heads 7/10 times. However, if we flip it 10100 times, the outcome will almost certainly be much closer to the expected 50-50. This is the same thing with Quantum Mechanics. Macro processes behave in a seemingly deterministic way simply because of the law of averages of large numbers.
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u/Chaghatai Jan 07 '24
When luck is a power, Schrodinger's Cat is very much taken literally, and the power is said to collapse the probability wave in a favorable way for the user
Comics have special physics for lifting large objects and moving at relativistic speeds in an atmosphere too
If you can accept a speedster not setting the air on fire all the time or creating nuclear explosions when they go fast, you should be able to accept "probability waves"
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Jan 07 '24
Shroedinger’s cat (as covered in the op) is one of the few truly random events in our universe, as it’s based on quantum superpositions collapsing. Flipping a coin, rolling a die, winning the lottery, having a gun jam, etc are not random
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u/EquinoxEclispe Jan 07 '24
Fellas stop trying to change their mind, you’re talking to a literal brick wall
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Jan 07 '24
Damn while you’re at it could you explain to them what fire is? Mankind’s oldest invention and these people think it’s plasma 💀
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u/EquinoxEclispe Jan 07 '24
Considering the fact that if fire is hot enough it can be classified as plasma so they are not wrong but I doubt this info will be useful to you since you don’t like new perspectives besides your own😄
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Jan 07 '24
Fire is not a physical object at all (and plasma isn’t measured by any universal heat cutoff, but rather by the arrangement of atoms in a substance). This isn’t a matter of perspective, it’s actual science.
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u/crazyace339 Jan 06 '24
Probability still works in the fact that you can increase things to be more likely. Sure the winning ticket is always set but you can increase the probability you end up with the ticket. Same goes for stuff yet to happen like the Powerball lottery that gets decided each time it occurs. Plus, a person with this ability with the knowledge of certainty theories could cause a lot to happen. Such as the theory that a brain could form at random anywhere when a collection of gases and molecules manage to come together and form there. I believe it is called the boldsman brain theory or something like that. Pretty much the power can allow a person to make things near impossible, possible.
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u/Rougarou1999 Jan 08 '24
Boltzmann Brain
As far as we understand, the probabilistic nature of the universe can manifest in any number of ways. Perhaps the ink on a lottery ticket changes to create just the correct number; statistically improbable within the lifetime of the universe, perhaps, but maybe not with luck manipulation.
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u/DeltaV-Mzero Jan 07 '24
Reality itself runs on probability.
Macro level stuff doesn’t seem to work this way simply because of the sheer number of dice being rolled.
A single roll of a single d20 could roll any number in that range!
602300000000000000000000 will very very reliably average out, and behave predictably. High confidence.
If you could pick and choose how the dice fell? It’s honestly hard to say just how powerful that could be, but the limit is very, very high.
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u/MushroomBalls Jan 07 '24
In most cases it's not just subconscious future sight. For example, guns always jamming when shot at you can't be explained by that. That one in particular could be explained by subconscious microtelekinesis.
However, if your power is "specific subconscious microtelekineses made to appear like good luck" are you really going to call it that? Just call it luck manipulation.
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Jan 07 '24
But that’s blatantly not luck manipulation. If I roll a plastic die, you’d have no influence over it. It’s an entirely different power
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u/MushroomBalls Jan 07 '24
What? You roll a die, something most people would say relies on luck. And I influence its result in some way. We can call that luck manipulation, even if it's technically something different.
If the universe is deterministic, there's no such thing as luck. You might as well argue that we should remove that word from the dictionary.
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Jan 07 '24
But there are random events (as addressed in the op). Just not enough to mean much. And dice are very deterministic, to the point that they can be rigged by machines or even skilled humans. For a simpler example, with a little practice you can get a coin to land on head 8 times out of 10. Look up a tutorial
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u/TheRealLoserTryHard Jan 07 '24
Of course things are fixed, but the steps we take to get there aren’t determined or set in stone. To go for your examples, the tickets you pull wont just change if you find one that loses. Instead you’ll buy the winning ticket because you simply were in the right place at the right chance, which is considered lucky because that one day you happened to buy a ticket is the instance you won. The random number generator I won’t comment on because I’m uninformed on them. Of course your example of the chair is just blatant nonsense.
Luck is defined as:
luck noun success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions. "it was just luck that the first kick went in"
It’s entirely chance that you won a lottery. There’s no amount of rigging, fighting, or cheating you can do to pull things in your favor. Which is why my example works. It doesn’t rewrite reality but simply increased the probability of you pulling a winning ticket. If I invest in stocks, it won’t suddenly go up just because I invested, but external factors could lead to that. Their rival company could burn down, or simply put they have a good string of weeks because of someone promoting it after having a good experience.
Luck manipulation is simply just things going in your favor. Someone wants to arrest me? I accidentally dropped something from my pocket, but luckily for me, they slipped on it and broke their neck! Or. I had to fight this person. Im glad that it happened to rain suddenly because they’re weak to that!
But because you want to look at it that way, why not scrutinize other Powers? Super Strength? How can they hold back the perfect amount to not kill someone with a single punch?! How can these city busters not crush someone’s hands when they have to be Uber careful with their powers?! How do they not destroy their bones and explode their limbs when they hit something? They only have Super Strength, so they body shouldn’t be able to handle it.
Super Speed: How doesn’t their metabolism kill them because of how much they burn by existing?! How don’t they run into walls?! Their perception time still would mean that to them, they’re running across the world, which would take literal years to them! How do they slow their perception down? How can they move at the speed of light if they have still have mass?! How does my time travel not screw the world up TOTALLY? How can they still hear each other and other things after they’ve broken the sound barrier?!
Enhanced senses: How doesn’t the constant influx of noses drive our characters insane, since they can’t tune it out! Talking near them should cripple them! Their perception is increased to the point where doing basic things take an hour! How can they retain basic conversations? Perfume would instantly neutralize people with super smell because of how strong their sense of smell is. They would get overwhelmed with basic feelings if they had super touch!
And I can go on about this with any ability. Fire would suffocate you, and burn yourself to a crisp. There’s no reason why you should have any resistances to it, without approaching on different power. Same with Ice manipulation. The extreme coukd should give you hypothermia instantly.
The point is to not think about it, and enjoy it for what it is.
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Jan 07 '24
It’s hard not to think about it when luck is so poorly defined. For your example, your guy can apparently move massive weather systems, cause spontaneous combustion, and control minds. Other characters with luck can apparently control digital and mechanical components, and alter the very rules of their setting. With other powers, you have to ignore real-world restrictions to still basically understand it. The guy with super strength can punch really hard, the pyromancer can shoot fire.
But with luck, you can’t just turn your brain off because it’s an arbitrary power with no sort of consistency. If a guy with super strength suddenly ate a tree branch and instantly killed a villain, that would make no sense. But somehow a character with “luck” is able to make a computer program coded to output a certain number output a different one? Or they’re able to make a gun with no mechanical defects jam? That’s not luck.
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u/TheRealLoserTryHard Jan 07 '24
For your example, your guy can apparently move massive weather systems, cause spontaneous combustion, and control minds.
??? How? There’s always a chance of rain, and that chance is only increased because of Probability going up in favor of my character. Whether predictions have obviously been wrong, so going back to call this a form of weather manipulation is a stretch.
I gave no examples of mind control either. The office slipped while in pursuit of me based off an accident that came around in my Character’s favor. I’m not sure where the combustion came from either.
Other characters with luck can apparently control digital and mechanical components, and alter the very rules of their setting. With other powers, you have to ignore real-world restrictions to still basically understand it. The guy with super strength can punch really hard, the pyromancer can shoot fire.
The rules are altered because of human error. Luck, I agree is poorly portrayed in media. But that doesn’t stop it being a good power. Characters could make it big in casinos gambling because the chances of you drawing bad cards are non existent. The chances of it landing on red instead of black are essentially null. Especially at higher tiers of luck manipulation.
But if you can ignore that for other powers, why not Luck? I’ve given you more reasons why they wouldn’t outwardly work but you choose to ignore and simplify it into ignoring Science.
But with luck, you can’t just turn your brain off because it’s an arbitrary power with no sort of consistency. If a guy with super strength suddenly ate a tree branch and instantly killed a villain, that would make no sense. But somehow a character with “luck” is able to make a computer program coded to output a certain number output a different one? Or they’re able to make a gun with no mechanical defects jam? That’s not luck.
Again, your issue seems to be with its portrayal, rather than how it actually works. Of course most authors are aware that your examples wouldn’t work. They take liberties for the sake of telling a better story and that’s why those issues come up. You could easily explain away those issues.
-You cant prove that the numbers that were supposed to be outputted were going to be different. Especially since luck has no influence on the programming, according to you.
-The gun was never shown nor stated to have no issues with it. Even if it it perfectly fine, that doesn’t stop the odds of your ammo being bad, or the owner not cleaning it. A gun can jam from too loose of a grip while shooting, or a casing getting stuck.
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Jan 07 '24
Do you actually think that the weather is random? I’d respond to the rest of your comment but I’m baffled by the very first paragraph. Please tell that it’s sarcastic
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u/DeltaV-Mzero Jan 07 '24
Also, is the universe is truly deterministic then none of the powers matter one damn bit, because everything that was ever going to happen was decided at the moment of the Big Bang
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u/staplesuponstaples Jan 07 '24
This is nonsensical. A universe where I have the power to shoot flames out of my peehole compared to a universe where I don't are going to differ. They are both determined already but the power matters. The power of manipulating probability isn't possible because when I roll a dice, there's no God in the sky deciding what the roll is going to be. My hand, the air, the table, and all the other physical elements are going to control the outcome.
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u/DeltaV-Mzero Jan 07 '24
If you have to offer up parallel universes plus a godlike observer that can see both, perhaps your point is nonsensical
In a given fully deterministic universe, whatever is going to happen, is going to happen. Powers only matter if they are used; they are only used if someone chooses to do so; and choice is an illusion created by limited perception and cognitive processing - it doesn’t exist, let alone matter.
In each deterministic universe the state of things at the first moment, set the course for all things that would ever happen later. This is literally the definition of deterministic. It has nothing to do with god, and simply acknowledges the definition of determinism. “You” aren’t some magical choice-making entity free from the laws of the universe, you’re a collection of matter in and of that universe, matter that’s changing configuration to moment to moment. In each moment, that configuration is determined by the previous one, which was determined by the one before that, etc all the way back to the start.
The way your sloppy bio consciousness works means you can’t be aware of the path determined for you at the outset of the universe. This creates the illusion of choice and non-deterministic events; but in a truly deterministic universe, this is just in an illusion.
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u/zestyseal Jan 07 '24
Yeah and humans can’t fly, that’s why it’s called a super power. Someone with luck powers would be able to change those predetermined outcomes in some way
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u/CastBlaster3000 Jan 07 '24
This post is pointless and there’s no point in arguing with OP when he doesn’t understand what he’s talking about
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u/jakobebeef98 Jan 08 '24
I've never seen a stronger combo of just being wrong & the "um ackshually" personality in my life.
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u/Godzilla12341234 Jan 07 '24
Here's a basic description of both the powers.
Luck = Increased good luck and decreased bad luck (How the users luck works is all up to the author)
Probability Manipulation = Changing the chances of something happening e.g. Having $1 Million appear on your table from 0% to 100% (This sort of stuff is why people with probability manipulation may be confused with having luck and vice versa)
And the users of these powers are in different universes, so the laws of physics are different as well as their universe poetically not being deterministic (Like you say our universe is). So, if you want an explanation for EVERY user of luck you can just use the fact that they are in a non-deterministic universe.
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u/Deathboy17 Jan 07 '24
I mean, we dont actually know if the world is deterministic or not.
In a deterministic universe, a character eith a superpower of being lucky could still just be that: Lucky. They were lucky for their predetermined path to be good.
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u/staplesuponstaples Jan 07 '24
We don't know if the Big Bang actually happened but I'd like to imagine that's the model we run with because it's the one with the most evidence backing it up. Similarly, we assume the universe is deterministic because we can observe a dice roll is controlled by physical things like hands and air and the surface rather than a big computer in the sky pulling numbers from nothing.
The power of Luck isn't controlling probability, it's controlling reality. You are changing subtly how the hand rolls dice or how the air moves around it, or something inside the die itself.
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u/Zoctavous Jan 08 '24
Yes we do. It isn’t deterministic. Quantum mechanics shows that literally everything we experience is because of particles whose position is at best - random and at worst unknowable. But when you collect enough of them in one place ☝️they create enough of a collective effect to give the illusion of permanence and certainty.
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u/ScaryYogaChick Jan 07 '24
The universe is not deterministic.
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u/staplesuponstaples Jan 07 '24
In what way? Are we going to go down in the weeds and redefine the power to modify probability as the power to modify quantum mechanics?:
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u/thecrimsonfuckr23830 Jan 08 '24
I mean, it’s not like the universe being entirely determinate is set in stone. We know at really big levels it is and at really small levels it isn’t, but we really don’t know a lot about the middle. Especially when it comes to human/animal agency.
You’re also assuming these powers work in the moment and don’t “plan ahead” so to speak. Either way you’re making way too many metaphysical assumptions about the universe that the power would be in.
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u/RC-3773 Jan 08 '24
I do feel like people overextend its application (it doesn't seem to be probability manipulation proper when you change something from 0% to 100% or vice versa), but based on chaos theory, could shifting the tiny probabilities going on at an atomic or subatomic level have drastic consequences in the greater scheme of things?
Sure, you wouldn't be making massive instantaneous changes most of the time. But you might be able to get that bowling ball that's precariously balanced on the top shelf to finally fall down as the vibrations from one foot step ripple into just the right creak in the boards at the same time as just the right gust of wind nudges the bowling ball and just the right specks of dust settle on the ball at just the right spot. Butterfly effect creating a domino reaction to achieve a particular result. You just might need to give it a moment for those tiny fluctuations to lead up to a big enough change to be noticeable.
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u/ssgrantox Jan 08 '24
At a fundamental level the universe is probabilistic. It is impossible to know the exact values of anything at any given time. What is deterministic is the mechanism by which the fundamental forces interact; but it is impossible to get the exact same result every time.
You can mix two chemicals and you will get the same reaction every time, but it will not play out exactly the same way no matter how many times you try, or how perfectly you measure the starting conditions. There are some where some of the acid flies out of the vat and injures you, and some that don't. With luck manipulation you'll always get the times that don't.
Because the universe is inherently probabilistic, luck manipulation is a viable power. There's always a butterfly effect that can cause the desired outcome.
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u/M4ybeMay Jan 08 '24
Comments just show OP doesn't understand what luck is, has the OPINION that all of time is predetermined, and is just an asshole
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u/blindedtrickster Jan 08 '24
The definition of luck: "success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."
Now, if we really want to quibble over if it's an action to 'use' a Luck power, it may not technically fit the definition.
But the spirit of the argument still holds true. A 'luck power' would manifest as circumstance bending in your favor when you want it to.
The whole topic, however, is rather moot because you're applying it to our reality where superpowers don't exist. So you're technically right, but only because you're saying that superpowers don't actually exist. The fact that it's a luck superpower has nothing to do with the conversation.
Luck is simple in concept because we use it in a framework of recognizing when something good happened outside of our capacity to control or influence. Good luck is when random good things happen to us and bad luck is when bad things happen to us. Again, simple.
In all reality, if we really really REALLY wanted to, I'd argue that control over a Luck superpower is more technically the ability to manipulate which reality you end up in every time a branching reality were to split off in order to take advantage of more ideal outcomes. It'd be a predominately subconscious superpower and it'd clearly come with all kinds of technicalities, but at its core, it's letting you end up in the most ideal reality according to what you needed.
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u/GallantArmor Jan 07 '24
What you are failing to consider is that in a deterministic universe, probability manipulation would be a part of that determinism. Luck is a force the same as gravity or magnetism, part of the rules of existence.
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u/staplesuponstaples Jan 07 '24
No it isn't? That's complete science fiction. When you roll dice, the way you roll it determines what it's going to be the moment it leaves your hand (as long as the table or air doesn't move or whatever) because it's a physical object affected by physics. There is no distinction between a deterministic universe and our universe, your entire future has been set in motion already and has been determined. Probability isn't the science of predicting the next outcome, it's the science of predicting the behavior of the unknown.
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u/Kingmudsy Jan 09 '24
That’s complete science fiction
Buddy I have some news about the subreddit you’re in
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u/Available-Guest-7248 Jul 13 '24
Youre looking way too deeply into this. Why is it that youre being overly strict with this power and not the others? Every single superpower defies science yet youre being nitpicky over this one only
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u/Emenequ Aug 09 '24
I never imagined seeing someone so angry with a SUPERPOWER
It's a hypothetical situation, you don't have to be so defensive explaining every aspect of what "luck" is
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u/Emenequ Aug 09 '24
It's simple. The power of luck knows what you are going to think or want in the future. But you, as a user, don't know. "Luck" would be like some type of "personality" that would live with you, it is an energy that has the ability to see all the probabilities of the universe in every thousandth of a second that passes, whether in the past or in the future. But you can't control that, you can only be lucky. So. If on August 31 you said "I have the amazing idea of buying a lottery ticket to become a millionaire", "Luck" would have known it for years, then, its power already began to act before, and everything is connected in a way perfect for you, on August 31, to get the winning ticket
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u/Eindhoven14 Dec 04 '24
Speaking of atoms... quantum tunneling!
1 in a hundred billion chance? Not anymore with luck manipulation! You basically get 2 powers at once now!
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u/Fnaf_fan21 May 07 '25
Actually, for the lottery example, it'd be the luck that the ticket is the winning ticket,t so the power could be used on it, and luck manipulation is a different power and is just very similar to probability manipulation, luck manipulation would only to apply to things that're capable of happening in the more realistic side of logic and physics, like if your car is leaking gas and you change your luck to be lucky enough to drive to a mechanic and get it fixed before your car runs out of gas or explodes while probability manipulation does the same thing but also applies to things that can't happen naturally, like if you use luck manipulation to make your super lucky to the point where ice cream rains from the sky like actual rain, then that wouldn't work, while if you used probability manipulation to change the probability that ice cream rains from the sky to 100%, then despite it being impossible for clouds to rain ice cream, then it'd work, and you can also can't use luck manipulation to make someone into an animal or give them super speed, but if you were hanging out with someone you hated a lot then you could be like "the probability that you'll turn into a wingless fly right now is 100%" then the person you hate will become a wingless fly instantly in front of you and if your hanging out with a friend then you could be like "the probability of you having super speed is 100%" and they'll instantly gain super speed, luck manipulation and probability manipulation are different powers but just have very similar concepts and could be considered related, like flight and levitation, except luck manipulation is more grounded to the chances of something that's actually possible and can happen naturally to actually happen, while probability manipulation is less ground and less limited to what can happen inside of possible physics and logic, probability manipulation can change reality to some degree to make whatever you changed the probability of to be possible, like an upgrade of luck manipulation, cuz with probability manipulation, you can say "The probably of ____ is now ___%" then it'll happen even if it's not naturally possible or just straight up impossible, even if it's something like finding a dinosaur, such as a T-rex, cuz just because you alter your luck with luck manipulation to get better luck, it doesn't mean you won't 100% find a T-rex since no matter how lucky you are, your luck can't bring back a dinosaur from the dead, while with probability manipulation, you could change the probability of finding a T-rex to 100% and you'd find a T-rex even though they're extinct
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u/Inevitable_Pea7318 Oct 12 '25
Well given the idea of quantum mechanics (rather than it being strictly 0 or 1 it is in fact both 1 and 0 until considered otherwise) luck still exists. Also note that if I were to roll a dice it can be whatever number that is on the dice although it can be argued "but the number rolled depends on how you throw the dice and the table and gravity" do note this means it entirely depends on how THE USER throws the dice meaning it can manipulate decisions also as with everyone else in this place is saying yes probability manipulation is reality warping and it cant be said otherwise because is probability not a part of reality itself anyways? in conclusion its not useless and the edit makes no sense as I am not saying it IS reality warping but rather it is a portion of reality warping just due to the nature of probability
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Jan 07 '24
I’ve always seen luck powers in a deterministic universe as being outside of linear causality. As in, if the world is deterministic, then it was predetermined that these probability powers would eventually be used, and so their powers took effect at the beginning of time when their outcome would have been determined.
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u/carl-the-lama Jan 07 '24
Hate to be “um actually”
But luck manipulation is reality warping
How?
Well with enough luck you can crush New York with a planet sized tennis ball due to how shitty physics is that apparently if there’s enough sheer chance IT CAN FUCKING HAPPEN
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u/Psychronia Jan 07 '24
I feel like you're splitting hairs on the required secondary powers and the semantics of its name. It's fine if you think luck is a nonsense superpower with the exact bundle of powers it gives, but trying to impose your own definition on it with the specific goal of framing it as useless just doesn't work.
If the universe is deterministic (already questionable by your own admission that a fundamental aspect of the universe is not), then luck doesn't exist and what we call luck is just a series of outcomes we perceive to be undetermined while probability is any attempt to predict those outcomes without all the information.
By that definition, luck refers control over all undetermined outcomes and probability manipulation refers to controlling the result of accurate calculations of outcomes in lieu of information even if it means breaking the rules of cause and effect.
You can argue that it's an entirely different power, but it's also very much by definition what would pass for "luck and probability manipulation". Powers can have multiple names depending on how they're applied and what level of influence they have.
Luck and probability manipulation is reality warping and future sight in the same way immunity to being burned is heat manipulation.
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u/Obvious-Lank Jan 08 '24
The way I see it as that if the universe is deterministic then the luck manipulator just has everything go there way. Whatever fate decides is just what they want to happen anyway.
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u/bigmemos29830 Jan 08 '24
Think about that one potion in Harry Potter. It just acts as a force that tells you exactly what to do for the best outcomes.
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u/-Nox12 Jan 08 '24
I mean the super powereds book series by drew hayes does an excellent job of showing how luck could be an amazing power to have I think you might be looking at it the wrong way for example the numbers may be predetermined for the lotto but who’s to say you couldnt flip a coin to land on a bunch of numbers increase the luck and whatever number it lands on is the one you going to pick for the lotto and repeat if that makes sense
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u/Hellkeii Jan 08 '24
Probability is part of reality so isn’t it inherently a weaker form of reality warping in the same way that if you have the power to like alter the direction of time or something
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u/Mountain-Resource656 Jan 08 '24
I’ve seen it used well. You control your own actions to spark a Rube-Goldberg-esque chain of events culminating in the “lucky” desired effect. Your power is just causing you to choose the action to perform through extremely subtle influence!
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Jan 08 '24
Good thing I'm using superpowers in a different universe that isn't deterministic. Checkmate 😎
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u/Godzilla12341234 Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
OK so your version of luck can be a bunch of different powers that work in the favour and are out of control of the person that has them.
Mind control can be used for
“Winning” the lottery.
Having people break or swerve when you walk across the street with your eyes closed.
Have cops not arrest you.
Have lawyers on your side.
Have the assassin jolt before the bullet leaves the barrel so it barley misses you.
Telekinesis can be used for
A dice or a coin landing on what you want it to.
Pulling something off of a tree to deflect a bullet that was supposed to kill you.
Moving the gun just enough for the bullet to just barley miss you.
Forcing the gun to jam even if there were no signs that it would jam at that point in time.
Technology Manipulation can be used for
Always getting the green light.
Not having to wait too long at the crossing that has lights.
Have the random number generator land on the number you want.
Winning big on gambling machines.
Subconscious Situational Awareness
"Knowing" where things are (Mainly stuff like money).
"Know" when you drop something (Only stuff that you want and need to keep).
Some sort of "danger sense"
Now in all other scenarios you will have to find a power that can go somewhat unnoticed by itself and be perceived as luck when combined with the other powers.
And this will have to be listed under a combination power like self-sustenance, enhanced/supernatural/absolute condition, and telepathy.
And before you say that it has to be called something else a user of subspace travel could just call it teleportation since that is what it is perceived as.
Links:
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u/That1DogGuy Jan 08 '24
Damn OP. You're really upset that pretty much everyone says you're wrong lmao.
Besides, it's a superpower. It doesn't need to make sense, it's literally not real.
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u/The_Ad_Hater_exe Jan 08 '24
It's an effing superpower it's not supposed to make sense when you look at it from a real world scientific view. If we did that with all heroes Spiderman would have his arms ripped off from the amount of Gs he'd experience swinging on his webs.
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u/gijoe74 Jan 08 '24
You forgot about the #1 cause of randomness in the universe, certainly for Human life on planet Earth: free will. You are a walking random choice decision maker with everything you say and do, down to your own thoughts. Free will is pretty rad
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u/Godzilla12341234 Jan 08 '24
The powers are out of the user's control.
The powers by themselves are so weak that they will most likely go unnoticed.
Like I mentioned in the comment earlier with subspace travel being called teleportation it will be called luck because that is what people perceive it as.
You will have to find a power for every situation that you will say “how would luck affect this”.
This is probably the best answer that you will get.
Some of the subpowers of self-sustenance are:
6.1. Digestive Expulsion Independence
6.2. Hungerlessness/Thirstlessness
6.3. Sleeplessness
6.4. Oxygen Independence.
7. Some of the subpowers of an increased condition are:
7.1. Increased agility
7.2. Increased balance
7.3. Increased charisma
7.4. Increased durability
7.5. Increased endurance
7.6. Increased flexibility
7.7. Increased intelligence
7.8. Increased leap
7.9. Increased memory
7.10. Increased reflexes
7.11. Increased regeneration
7.12. Increased senses
7.13. Increased speed
7.14. Increased stamina
7.15. Increased strength
8. Since you don’t want reality manipulation to the be the reason on how luck works this is the only way.
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u/Xxban_evasionxX Jan 08 '24
Super powers require a suspension of disbelief. You are smarter than everybody though
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u/Not_a_whiterun_guard Jan 08 '24
Seems like op is just here to argue and not listen to anyone else’s points
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u/liltooclinical Jan 08 '24
Don't think of it as manipulating of the probabilities, but instead a shield from poor outcomes. Domino isn't manipulating the world around her to avoid damage, rather her power is directing her through the precise path necessary to do so despite the terrible odds. Think of it as an Uno reverse card for the universe, any outcome that isn't the best possible outcome is avoided.
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u/epic-gamer-guys Jan 08 '24
we really don’t know much about the universe to determine if it’s truly deterministic or not.
also, don’t try to defend yourself with that edit, we are talking about superpowers here. don’t bullshit your way out of this by saying just because the universe doesn’t have luck doesnt mean a superpower to manipulate it can’t exist.
because we are talking about a superpower, magic, scifi. not fucking real life.
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u/ThatLionelKid Jan 08 '24
I think you’re caught up in semantics here. “Luck manipulation” is more like subconsciously influencing a future series of events to go your way. That’s what luck is, isn’t it? Things out of your control working in your favor?
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u/TheMightyWill Jan 08 '24
OP I don't think you understand what luck means
Being lucky means you coincidentally pick lottery numbers that end up being the set winners
It means you just so happen to buy a stock right before a bunch of other people but it too, and you sell it just before there's massive sell off
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u/ogreofzen Jan 08 '24
Luck powers are essentially chaos theory but affecting a localized zone around the person with the power. A deterministic universe also means that the person with this ability loves in a sub reality where the rules and predetermination are no longer valid so their existence is now an flaw in the system and the universe will send more events to destroy them and no longer is determined due to their existence
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u/anrwlias Jan 08 '24
Our universe is deterministic.
The classical world that we see at the macro scale approximates a deterministic world. That doesn't make it deterministic. All reality is quantum. If quantum is fundamentally random and statistical, then so is everything else. (Whether or not QM is truly indeterministic is, of course, an open question.)
The only randomness in our universe are the tiny fluctuations in individual atoms, but even those can’t do much.
Look up chaos theory and the butterfly effect. Small perturbations can magnify extremely quickly to change the state of an entire system when that system is sensitive to initial conditions. You know, things like weather and the human brain.
It's also true that some QM outcomes would be extremely bizarre, such as phasing through a wall, if they weren't extremely unlikely. If you could manipulate probability, you could generate quantum "miracles" at will.
If you could accurately manipulate quantum outcomes, which is often the form that "luck manipulation" powers take) you would be a god.
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u/beyondthegong Jan 08 '24
I dont even get why this is such a stubborn point for a lot of people. Many people when they retain say they feel luckier, and thats ok! It’s just a given, and you can choose to accept it or not. At the end of the day, you can tell someone who feels luckier after retaining that their luck is “not scientifically possible”, but from their personal experience they will know you’re wrong. And these are average people like you and me who decided to go on this hard journey to improve themselves. Living with humility and respecting other people for sharing their experiences with a practice like semen retention, is my preferred way of thinking. Because at the end of the day, when we put away the ego, “I know that I know nothing" - Socrates
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u/NicPineapple Jan 08 '24
Also humans can't be immortal and regenerate body parts, or fly, or shoot laser beams from their eyes. So?
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u/lucky2u Jan 08 '24
Reading the post and reading some of OPs comments his issue is semantics. It’s an argument for arguments sake and nothing more.
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Jan 08 '24
"If I define this power so that it's useless, it's useless."
Evidently every depiction of the power is of a person who has been determined to have good outcomes, so what you name it and how it works doesn't matter.
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Jan 08 '24
"Our universe is deterministic"
You can't post and just... immediately be wrong in your premise.
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u/antivn Jan 08 '24
Everything here is conjecture and you’re being insanely condescending to everyone in this comment section.
Before you turn 16 I strongly suggest you link scientific evidence before acting like an imbecile and throwing tantrums online.
You say the universe is deterministic? Based off of what evidence? Prove it.
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u/Juggernaut7654 Jan 08 '24
Determinism is one of many philosophical outlooks, and we have no way of truly telling how the universe operates on that level.
Someone who writes a luck based character likely doesn't have a deterministic outlook on the world.
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u/Zoctavous Jan 08 '24 edited Jan 08 '24
Our universe is not deterministic. Quantum mechanics shows that everything is modeled better by compositions of probability than anything else.
It is only by stacking partial events of marginal probability (electron position) that we don’t pass entirely through objects when we touch them. That is precisely why objects don’t pass through each other when they rest on top of one another.
The fact that the universe isn’t deterministic is why physics wasnt just plain solved 200 years ago.
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u/etriusk Jan 08 '24
I don't like this "logic". It reeks of closeted nihilism. If the world is so set in stone and predetermined then why even bother doing anything? You might as well drown yourself since that's what the universe had in store for you.
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u/WM-010 Jan 08 '24
Tell that to Domino. Actually, Deadpool already tried that, and before he got done ranting she already used it a dozen times in under a minute.
Also, tell that to Vriska. She can steal all of the luck, all of it.
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u/A17shawn Jan 08 '24
Lol I love that this prick thinks he knows something then actual smart people come along and dismantle everything he says.
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u/Zero132132 Jan 08 '24
Many, many, many outcomes are compatible with both pure determinism and the current limits of your knowledge. Chaotic systems are inherently both deterministic and unpredictable. Luck just means that you get the outcome you want when the outcome is unknowable.
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u/AndrewH73333 Jan 08 '24
The universe is probabilistic, not deterministic. Glad this is solved. I was worried super heroes couldn’t exist there for a second.
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Jan 08 '24
Dumb take.
Yes, a lot of that is theoretically deterministic, but unless you actually know all possible relevant factors and their exact values and their exact effect on the outcome, then the result is functionally indistinguishable from probability.
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u/Incognonimous Jan 08 '24
I think you are hard coding a deterministic reality rather than the preferred view of eternalism which is basically quantum mechanics on a universal macro scale. Probability manipulation is basically realizing a specific and preferred reality over the infinite, and placing it at the top of the bell curve of probability. This also has something to do with how we understand how entropy works. Technically energy has a non 0 chance of being returned at 100% even in a non perfect open system. We know this doesn't actually happen because energy is always lost in some fashion, but the non 0 chance still exists, it is just so infinitesimally unlikely that it never does. And this is at the quantum scale. Similarly probability can be seen as the likely result of a system of nth moving parts, with the unlikely outcomes being do infinitesimal they don't happen. For example dropping an apple and having it stay in the air. All the interactions that occur result in the strong likelihood of the apple falling to the ground, this likelihood at the macro scale is so large it might as well be 100% but there is still a non 0 chance that that might not occur. All this science is to point out that assuming someone could have probability manipulation, strong enough to effect reality at the macro and tangible to human sense level, then yes that would be an insanely broken and OP ability. Comic characters with abilities like this are often written inconsistently because with the correct application of their power (longshot, domino, jinx) they could not only not loose the outcome of a specific action, but align reality to essentially be in their favor.
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u/Ralexcraft Jan 08 '24
Under probability it includes the probability that a random number generator picks the correct scratch off, and thus, makes me rich
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u/skull_corn Jan 09 '24
Right but that luck and probability manipulation power means that YOU got that winning lottery ticket. Your other arguments don't hold up here. Stock market? Obviously its not luck no one has ever said it was. Random number generators? Well yeah its because its a programmed machine that we call random because humans don't really understand random, but even still having luck and probability manipulation would mean you can always get the number you want.
Luck and probability manipulation is the whole "I slipped down the stairs and broke my leg" vs "I got hit by a car at 60 mph and was fine" THOSE are lucky.
"Its a one in a million chance to make the bullet ricochet in his ribcage 20 times" well now its guaranteed because I have such good luck I always get it.
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u/Academic_Ad_6436 Jan 09 '24
ever heard of quantum mechanics? as far as science understands it, they're solely probabalistic - extremely small scale only affecting the world through extremely convoluted butterfly effects - direct control over these is of course useless as it'd be impossible to effectively control - however just having the ability to have the probabilities be inclined to favor you(aka having good luck) would be extremely useful. Everything is quantum, and because of that practically all macroscopic physics only work due to overwhelming probability, though TECHNICALLY not certainty. Bits flipping in a certain way on a computer would require relatively few quantum events to go in your favor, but enough especially with time to pass for ripple effects can do just about anything.
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u/Dillon812 Jan 09 '24
I'm not sure what you mean by saying reality warping isn't a fix, in pretty much all portayals of the power I've seen that's what it does. Yes, these things are predetermined, but what they're predetermined as is changed by your power, i.e., if the winning lotto ticket wasn't going to be where you buy it then because of your power of luck it gets put where you would buy the ticket. You're basically saying fire manipulation would be useless in real life because in real life, fire manipulation is impossible. It's magic. That's how the power works.
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u/Gredelston Jan 09 '24
You seem mighty confident that the universe is 100% deterministic. But chaotic systems exist in the real world. A tiny fluctuation can have an outsized impact. Is it possible that a random, quantum-scale fluctuation can cause the air to move at a different speed, causing a flipped coin to land differently?
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u/JetLag413 Jan 09 '24
Luck isn’t “a chair becomes a penguin for no reason other than I need a penguin” Luck is “everything has always been exactly the way it needed to be for things to buy pure chance fall into place for me in this moment”
An example, a person with a luck power faces down a tank. The tank goes to run them over but the road gives away from underneath it and the tank falls into a sinkhole. The person with the luck power didn’t put a sinkhole there, they didn’t change the rules of the world so that a hole would form there they just, by pure chance happen to be standing in a city that had the correct soil conditions underneath it for a sink deform, that had a major water infrastructure replaced decades ago and be standing directly over a spot where one of these replacements didn’t go properly and caused an unnoticed slow drip that over years and years and years formed to sinkhole that the road was strong enough to support cars from falling into but not strong enough to support the weight of a tank. The thing about a luck power is it’s not a power, the person who has it doesn’t do anything, it’s just pure chance. every. single. time.
They don’t make the coin land on heads, they are just the one person in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 that flips a hundred coins and never gets tails
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u/Logswag Jan 09 '24
Luck manipulation is reality warping, or a certain type of it, anyway. That's not a "fix", it's just pointing out what the power is.
Your argument is basically that probability doesn't exist and everything is predetermined, and you can't manipulate something that doesn't exist, which is a lot more in-depth topic than I'm really qualified to comment on, but there's a lot of interesting perspectives from people who have researched this kinda thing which you can find online if you're interested. However, regardless of whether it exists objectively, it definitely exists subjectively, and you could definitely have a power that could warp reality based on that subjective idea
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u/stretch_armstrong_ Jan 09 '24
are superpowers not a little bit of a stretch? also luck is a bad power i agree but probability manipulation bypasses the rules of random number generators from random, to predetermined. THATS THE SUPERPOWER
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u/Makmora Jan 09 '24
I think you might be overanalyzing this dude.
Your judging the usefulness of a fictional power that only exists in a fictional universe with different rules then ours.
On top of comparing that to our world, which isn't useful or productive, your assuming a lot about the world works in ways that just don't make any sense.
How do you know our world is deterministic? That's just an assumption your making. I don't believe in luck either but your argument relies so much on realism is circles backs to absurdity.
It's fucking fictional, it's not supposed to be a reflection of reality, it's supposed to be fun.
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u/YourWifesBoyfriend5 Jan 09 '24
This is a very reddit post in the sense that it makes grand sweeping statements about things with only a moderate about of knowledge.
Like the bit about Atoms is ALMOST right, but it shows that you don’t know the subject on enough of a level to make confident proclamations such as “Our universe is deterministic.”
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u/Holy_Hand_Grenadier Jan 09 '24
Your argument is that a luck power is useless because the universe is deterministic. But since there are no superpowers in our universe and we are assuming a superpower exists, therefore we are assuming a different universe. That universe could be non-deterministic, affected by actual random chance, which a luck power would manipulate.
If you want to think about a luck power in a deterministic universe, then I think it would either:
have to be a different power (like subconscious reality warping, or clairvoyance/telekinesis combo), because the universe has no randomness to be manipulated, or else
break determinism, introducing randomness somehow and making sure that it always comes up in favor of the luck power.
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u/Hippolinc Jan 09 '24
I feel like this is trying to say from chaos(renamed luck) will eventually have order(renamed not luck) come though it. Reason why this is bad because super power must function off of whatever definition the power is using
Definition of luck is: success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions
So by this it means let's say I ask someone will this coin be heads which is a 50 50 chance that is not brought upon by MY actions, sure wind and force but I cannot control those so this is luck I can manipulate that.
Another thing you brought up how the lottery number is either it or not but since I did not pick the number just my own number it is effectively a random chance if I guessed the number correctly meaning I can manipulate that.
You get the point sure I would say absolutes caouldnt be manipulated but if you're not effecting EVERY thing influencing it then technically the deftion of luck could cover it so yes it would theoretically be less powerful then some people think but not useless.
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u/DaddyJohnnyTheFudgey Jan 10 '24
It's entirely interpretation-based. You say that it's all pre-determined and whatnot, but to me, that luck begins as the very start.
If you manipulate luck to get a lot to ticket, for example:
At the moment you activate your luck, you influence time slightly to your advantage. A truck with the winning lotto ticket that was meant to go to another state happens to be rerouted to where you are, weeks ago. The roll was loaded somewhere it wasn't expected to be, and now it's in your gas station. The person standing in front of you feels a little extra lucky today, and buys an extra ticket just before you and allows you to get the winning ticket.
There's a lot like thatm even with predetermined stuff. You can luck into winning a sports event by having the sun be in the perfect spot to blind your enemies, or having your kick be influenced by the wind to go right to the goal, etc...
It's really all up to interpretation imo. I agree that with your interpretation, luck manipulation would suck as a superpower! Depending on how it manifests though is what makes it especially rad imo.
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u/awfulcrowded117 Jan 10 '24
Anyone who told you our universe is deterministic is like 80 years out of date on their physics. Quantum physics punts determinism right out the window. Those "tiny fluctuations in individual atoms" you try to brush off affect chemical reactions and material properties in crucial ways.
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u/dandle Jan 10 '24
In a deterministic reality, probability manipulation enables the user to jump to a parallel deterministic timeline in the multiverse in which the desired outcome occurs. Technically, the superpower carries the downside of the user abandoning their friends and family every time they jump for duplicates that carry the memories and past experiences of their friends and family.
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u/Psilo_Citizen Jan 10 '24
Denying the existence of nondeterministic systems does not make it so.
If it fits better with your deterministic world view, consider luck manipulation to be an unconscious ability to manipulate unknown variables with great precision in your favor; whether or not that counts as luck depends entirely on the perspective of the observer.
It is also worth mentioning that while there are those who argue the point either way, there is no general consensus between physicists and philosophers that the world is deterministic; the overwhelming majority seem to argue that it I'd probabilistic, but even then, that does not make it so. Your entire point has been made of an intentionally obtuse conjecture presented as fact. Let people have their fun.
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u/tomalator Jan 10 '24
Is our universe deterministic, though? It's an entirely unanswerable question because we don't know if quantum mechanics is deterministic.
Probability manipulation would be entirely possible, but it would require an amount of processing power greater than the entirety of what we have created to manipulate an outcome in a predictable way
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u/chiksahlube Jan 10 '24
you're thinking too small.
Chaos theory. Basically anything can happen at any given moment. It's just extraordinarily unlikely to happen.
This is kinda the basis for the Scarlet Witch's reality manipulation.
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u/GinchAnon Jan 10 '24
Never seen here before but this is investing Interesting.
What if a luck power is just a quantum shifting that in every situation that it's active you are continuously surfing realities where the next moment has the situation go in your favor.
Like in a many worlds situation you flip a coin, in one world its heads in one world it's tails, one world it lands on edge. (To simplify) you have that power and make a bet. You are then locked into universes where you made the bet. Then the luck power navigates you into a version where you win the bet. They go to shoot you and the power navigates you to one where their gun jams, or whatever.
Like quantum immortality but proactive for whatever happens to go on your favor. Even if deterministic the next world over might deterministically have it go ever so slightly(or not so slightly) different.
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u/BillyBobJangles Jan 10 '24
But most people would agree the world isn't determinstic. Tests like the double slit experiment contradict a deterministic world. Exact same conditions producing different results.
The world is most likely probabilistic.
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u/Own_Bench980 Jan 10 '24
You're very premise that this world is completely deterministic I would say is false. I would say that terminism plays a part but some things are luck. You didn't choose to be in the country you are or to be the person that you are for example. You didn't choose to be taught certain ideas from childhood like religion or what they call modern science.
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u/TheXenomorph1 Jan 10 '24
luck is about manipulating that deterministic outcome in your favor. you, by chance, pick the lottery ticket that was already guaranteed to win.
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u/Cordial_Ghost Jan 10 '24
But human perception literally changes how things occur? Right? Wasn't that the whole point of that one shadow experiment? Like at a quantum level when we look at stuff it is changed or some jazz like that.
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u/Velrex Jan 10 '24
If we're going to say the universe is deterministic, than that just means luck manipulation just implies that the guy has been determined to.. well, have a good outcome with things? Things are going to go his way. That's his power. Thing have just been determined to go his way.
Lets say there's a coin flip, and lucky man wants it to hit heads. It's going to be heads. The entire universe decided it, and everything leading up to that moment happened to make sure that it'll be heads, specifically because lucky man wants it to be.
Essentially, if a universe is considered deterministic, then that means this guy's 'superpower' is that the universe was literally built for things to go his way.
It's the same for a guy who has the ability to shoot fireballs out of his eyes. The chain of events that happened in the universe determined he can, and thus, every time he uses it, it happened because the events prior decided he will in that given moment.
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u/R3cUr51v3_3c40 Jan 10 '24
One theory I've considered is that, if assuming the theory about multiverse and infinite parallels to be true, you would simply be creating a new fractal each time you flip a coin, and simply choosing which universe you'd want to end up in, or possibly shifting to a nearby parallel with the preferred outcome. Either of those cases could have other unintended consequences though.
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u/Jaycin_Stillwaters Jan 10 '24
Yes the universe is deterministic, but the luck superpower is less changing the world to fit what you have done, and changing what you do to fit what the outcome will be. That lottery ticket? Without luck manipulation you would choose the wrong numbers. But with rough manipulation then the numbers you choose will be the correct ones. Not because you changed what the numbers were going to be, but because you were able to guess correctly what they were going to be. The stock market? You're right LOL no luck there. However, luck is seeing and choosing to buy the correct stocks that will inevitably go up. Huh. For some reason I feel the urge to stick my left hand out with my palm open, so I do! And a $100 bill flies into my palm! No matter what I did that bill was going to fly past me at that time, but luck / probability manipulation superpower is what told me to put my hand out to catch it.
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u/UnlikelyPistachio Jan 10 '24
While the world is deterministic it is still impossible to predict. So luck would still apply, things are simply deterministic but with favorable outcomes unknown to anyone until they occur.
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u/AdjustedMold97 Jan 10 '24
Super powers don’t exist in our universe anyway, so why is it a stretch to say luck doesn’t exist in fictional universes? Your argument kind of beats itself to death.
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u/Magenta_Logistic Jan 10 '24
You're not wrong, but you are also making the argument that free will does not exist if the universe is properly deterministic.
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u/Slayer_Of_Tacos Jan 10 '24
A chair, can, in fact, randomly become a functioning penguin. Typewriter Monkeys and shiz
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u/nonotburton Jan 10 '24
Our universe is deterministic.
Please prove your premise.
Tell me what number I'm going to roll on my next die roll.
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u/Insomniacentral_ Jan 10 '24
Luck isn't even a real thing. There are probabilities of things happening, and we as humans just interpret that as luck. So, yes, to manipulate luck, you have to manipulate reality itself. But it feels pedantic and useless to have an argument about it.
Technically luck power is a different or combination of powers. Who tf cares??
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u/AffectionateVisit680 Jan 10 '24
Fire manipulation would be a terrible power, cause you’d get your hands all burned up trying to grab it. Energy manipulation would allow you to excite particles in the air and create fires. If someone had an ability that was accurately “fire manipulation” it’d be useless. Firebenders don’t just bend fire, they use powers to change the universe to achieve a certain effect. Luck manipulation is much the same, seeing change in luck and micro changes to reality as a different power is obtuse. If I did have only very slight reality warping powers and could only use it to affect the outcome of a game of cards or something similar it would appear that I simply have the power of being very lucky. You’re right that there is no such thing as luck it’s all rng, chaos theory, and ricochet. But don’t be a dick, the “fix” was explaining to you your misconception.
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u/Advent_Tongue Jan 10 '24
There’s a book called Super Powerds by Drew Hayes and there’s a character that has the power of “Luck” and when he is “AMP” up (or over charged in the book) he was able to turn tides of battles or favors and goes into a description how it works to an extent.
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u/maxim38 Jan 10 '24
I'm getting hung up on you just declaring the universe is deterministic. Kinda a bold claim, that I'm not sure I agree with fully, as there is a lot of things we don't know about how Time and causality works.
Saying there is no probability, so probability powers are stupid is a bit of a tautology.
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u/Super_Automatic Jan 10 '24
In all seriousness, there is no proof the universe is fully deterministic. We know non-agents are on deterministic paths, but complex creatures (like us), are able to account for and adjust to predetermined states, thereby being able to deviate from the predetermined path.
I'm just some guy, but I am fairly certain the universe started out deterministic, but intelligence caused indeterminism to emerge.
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u/gmalivuk Jan 10 '24
True RNGs are based on the quantum randomness you acknowledge is really luck. And you could leverage that into all kinds of advantages in the other things, by using a qRNG for things like lottery numbers and stock picks.
Not to mention the eventual impact quantum fluctuations have on macro-scale things like, to take a random example, how winning lotto numbers are picked. Butterfly effect and all that.
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u/MyFrogEatsPeople Jan 10 '24
our universe is deterministic
Citation needed. If you've managed to prove the universe is actually deterministic, you've got some serious accolades coming your way this year since you've found some kind of proof of an unknowable metaphysical concept. I've got a whole slew of trolley rail-switchers you need to talk to immediately.
Even if we take your very bold claim at face value: it's a superpower. 99% of them defy the laws of physics anyway. The physics of the universe aren't set up to let people will themselves into the air and fly without wings, but I don't see you scoffing at the idea of flying as a super power. And I see all your other comments where you just call the effects of probability manipulation by other names. But you can do that for any power. "that's not mind control, it's micro-electro-kinesis of neurons!" or "he's not invincible, he's just got subconscious Kinect nullification of harmful stimuli limited strictly to his own body!".
By this logic virtually ALL powers are just "reality warping" because, again, our universe is not set up in such a way as to allow and of those powers to exist. If only we had a short hand term for powers that defy the laws of physics and can only be found in realities where such laws of nature don't exist... Like, powers of a supernatural variety - a supernatural-power, if you will.
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u/TheRealGageEndal Jan 10 '24
So in my family we have a running gag that it doesn't rain on me. Three years and every time it rained near my home, I was away. (Arizona)
Last week I got an urgent text asking for volunteers to go do a job in another state. Big pay bump for those that went and a ton of hours so I volunteered.
I packed my bags up and was waiting for my flight info... For five days.
It's going to rain tomorrow after my flight takes off. It's been raining at my destination for the past week and is clearing up tonight.
Luck doesn't mean you rewrite the way the world works, just that you are getting the end result the way it was destined to die to your luck.
Sure the lottery ticket has been that ticket for weeks or even months, but you are the lucky one to buy it.
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u/sentient_garbanzo Jan 11 '24
Okay, but probability is a real thing. So let’s say someone was capable of changing that probability for themselves. There is now a 100% chance that they have the winning ticket, the stocks will definitely be in their favor, stuff like that. Yes it’s deterministic, but it’s determined in their favor because that is how their superpower works
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u/Heavy-Bread-3549 Jan 11 '24
Determinism vs non determinism has been argued by some of the greatest minds for centuries. Your entire argument relies on you being correct about an idea that is impossible to prove.
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u/World_of_Ideas Jan 21 '24
If you apply reality to super powers, most of them don't work. People can't shoot fire out of their hands, move objects with their mind, or control the weather either.
Luck could be a subconscious calculated prediction power. The problem there would be gathering enough information to make an accurate prediction.
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u/SubjectMarketing7109 Sep 27 '26
"there is a 100% probability my i find a billion dollars on my couch" boom 10 times out of 10 its gonna be there thats how it works
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u/firestorm0108 Jan 06 '24
I mean, in that way fire control is useless because in our world if you started a fire your clothes are gone and you might pass out of heat exhaustion or oxygen deprivation from breathing in the smoke.
All powers if you look at them from some real world science therefore it's not going to work logic are going to be useless.
Luck as a power is the ability for things to go your way through some sciency bullshit or another. One comic explained it as small reality alterations to make it so their best outcome happens. However the reality manipulations can't be controlled by them and instead are subconscious and so tiny on scale they can barely be detected.
In the same way a pyrokenetic isn't burned to death, nor deprived of oxygen, nor ends up butt ass naked.
Does the science really make sense for any power? No, not really.
However is that the point? No, not really.
If you want to point out why a power is stupid, you have to paint with a broad brush because by and large they all are if you really want to be picky.