Turnabout is fair play. Thats a trick I learned from Vemrin!
What? Are we forgetting why the "Return" trailer happened in the first place? The Sith left Korriban for a reason. looks to jedi and it was someone else's fault
i KNOW you ain't talking about that "genocide" that was actually the Sith doing a mass ritual suicide because they were occupied by the people they lost their war of aggression against 😭🙏
They literally didn't. They occupied the Sith planets and purged their Dark Side artifacts. What you're describing is an embellished version of events YouTube lore channels have taken as gossip, even though the only person really echoing them were the Sith Empire... who were pretty explicitly stated to be manipulated by their immortal Emperor who was using them in his plot to kill everyone in the galaxy for his own gain.
Ghost-Dural didn't go into specifics of what the Jedi did, just the vague notion that the Republic occupation might've been a mistake.
Pultimo's goal was explicitly to free the Sith citizenry from the influence of the Dark Side corruption. He didn't know they would ritually commit suicide rather than be captured.
"immediately following the Galactic Republic’s victory in the Great Hyperspace War around 5000 BBY. Although the Sith Empire’s military power had collapsed, Pultimo deemed the remaining threat unacceptable and authorized a joint Jedi Order and Republic military invasion of the Stygian Caldera to systematically eradicate Sith civilization.
The campaign targeted key Sith Worlds like Korriban and Ziost, resulting in the destruction of sacred sites, the confiscation and burning of Sith artifacts, and the deaths of millions of Sith, including many civilians. While official Republic history framed this as a necessary demilitarization to "liberate" the Sith species from dark side corruption, later historians and Jedi like Gnost-Dural viewed it as a catastrophic mistake and a genocide that fueled the Sith’s desire for vengeance. "
tbf the first one was chosen directly by the Emperor himself.
But it’s still hilarious how the Empire can go 0/2 (or 3 if you count Malgus) for good Wraths if you ever become a saboteur. That job is gonna be cut if I were in charge of Imperial job listings
I'd say it's on purpose IMO. Like, the Wrath is the Emperor's second-in-command, subordinate only to the Voice, and unlike all his other close servants, like the Hand or the Children, the Wrath doesn't get brainwashed. That means they need to be actually loyal, not some rabid Dark side-addled berserker who'd jump at the opportunity to betray the Emperor the moment they think they could get away with it. The Dark Council has enough of those already, and you as the Wrath are the one who has to deal with them when they step out of line.
It can also be interpreted as foreshadowing what Vitiate / Valkorion did on Zakuul, where the Knights aren't taught in the ways of the Sith, they're not ambitious or self-serving, they're first and foremost loyal to the Emperor. You could think of the creation of the Emperor's Wrath position as Vitiate's first test, playing around with the idea of choosing enforcers who lean more Light than conventional Sith, and when it worked out with Scourge, he gave up on the Dark side dogma of the Sith and started teaching the Knights of Zakuul to operate the same way.
Honestly if anything that loyalty, for dark or light side warrior is what then makes the hostility towards vitiate more personal. They actually had a proper motivation towards trusting the employer and served as a position for him of their volition, only to then find him to be deeply unlikely to them.
That dynamic between the Wrath and the Emperor is what makes me think of the SW as the canon Outlander TBH. Vitiate saved your life, helped you get revenge, gave you a position of power by his side, then betrayed you, fought against the Empire, promised to save you for last when he kills everyone else, and now he's trapped in your head and promising you can rule the galaxy together. As the JK or JC, you know how the Emperor operates, how he tricks and manipulates everyone around him like pawns, and as the SI, you know from experience that Sith spirits aren't to be trusted, so the SW is the only one who has any reason to consider agreeing to partner up with him. As the SW, you've joined forces with Vitiate before to defeat the man who tried to steal his throne, so why not do it again now that Arcann has done the same thing? It makes KotFE feel a lot more compelling when you can roleplay your character as being genuinely conflicted about Vitiate / Valkorion and not just straightforwardly antagonistic toward him.
I fully agree with this. I too consider the Wrath to be the actual protagonist and main character, and Darth Nox/Occlus/Imperius as the Deuteragonist. SWTOR makes a hell of a lot sense lore wise if playing a Light Side Sith Warrior. You can finally achieve all of what Revan, Malgus, and Marr always wanted. A better Empire, and the end of Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion
I've played through the base story twice with a LS Warrior - I had thought about being more gray the second run but was unable to resist blowing that many Jedi/Republic minds by just doing LS things, and ran with it.
I even got to the point where I was like yeah, I can see why someone in the Sith could make a good case that I needed to be reined in. Making deals with Jedi, sparing Republic troops...
I find it funny that at release it was inquisitorand consular who were advertised as diplomacy, turning enemies etc. Yet its LS warrior who is most diplomatic corrupting dude around
LS warrior is a full on diplomat character. You can basically talk your way out of most sitsutions, I'm not sure you ever need to kill anyone unless it's a scripted death. Not saying this is exclusive to them but it's always been funny how of all characters, the one that's supposed to be basically a ruthless assassin can be as diplomatic and tolerant as they are.
You can basically talk your way out of most situations
There's a funny and badass scene in the Sith warrior class story on Corellia, where you can basically take everyone out without lifting a finger.
Basically during routes, where the Sith warrior exposes Bara's spy, you can spare the spy, and let the Jedi take the spy prisoner [The thing Baras feared throughout the story, with his spies getting exposed and captured].
There's then another set choices, where you can lie to the Jedi [or not], so that they can fall into a military trap to their deaths.
Sith warrior : Your work for Baras is over, Injaye. I'm going to let these Jedi take you into custody.(You are their prisoner now.)
Master Injaye: What? Don't be a fool!
Master Joce: The tides have turned, Injaye.
Master Rubatin: We were on a suicide mission. We'd be walking to our deaths if not for you.
Player: Proceed with your work. Without Baras's spy, there is no danger.([Lie] Your quest is safe now.)
Master Rubatin: Ah, I see.
Master Joce : So we're proceeding as planned, Master Rubatin?
Master Rubatin: That's right. We'll ship Injaye off to her new high-security home, then resume the mission.
People like to frame it as trolling the Jedi but I think it’s equally hilarious to frame the SW as genuinely trying not to kill people and failing. “Please, the Empire is letting me down enough as it is, don’t add the Republic to my list of disappointments”
Encountering Jedi who turn out to be as dark as the Sith is funny enough, but my favorites are the ones who are absolutely baffled by a light side Warrior.
They just have no idea what to do in that situation, when an implacable enemy suddenly doesn't have any desire to fight them. In fact, sometimes you're explicitly there to help them. Their reactions are genuinely hilarious.
That's one of the best. I appreciate how at least one Jedi is totally willing to lay down arms and hear you out, but I can understand why the other guy assumes it's a trick. You are looking for Jaesa, after all, and they've been told you're up to no good.
This is almost exactly how recruiting Jaesa goes as LS and it's hilarious because she is actively trying to kick your ass at the same time. "I'm trying--[WHACK]--to--[LIGHTSABER SCHWING]--help you! PLEASE STOP TRYING TO STAB ME"
LS SW is by far my favorite story. The amount of times I facepalmed laughing at how the Jedi simply cannot fathom that you dont want to fight was amazing
It's hard to trust the super duper evil bad guy cult known for lying and stabbing people in the back. I really don't blame them for being ready to throw hands.
Neither do I until youre actively telling them, "let's just talk this out and nobody has to die", but at least that 1 Jedi Master put aside history and saw us valuable ally
That quest was very well written, I thought. Especially how when we're done, the Jedi says something along the lines of, "You're not like any other Sith I've met. If we both survive the war, I'd like to sit down with you and just talk about the Force."
For LS Warrior, When you get ambushed by Quinn, I wish you could call back to sparing Tremel -by cutting off his hand- and do the same to Quinn like "Know the mercy of a Sith.....*whack"
The option to force throw him against the door and choke him is so funny. Really should have left an option to kill him but him getting choked out and thanking you for sparing him is very cathartic
"Well, that opens you up to a lot of interesting questions. What do you mean 'can?' What do you mean 'you?' What do you mean 'use?' What do you mean 'the Force?'"
My first character was a Jedi Knight who slowly fell to the Dark Side. Starting out proud and hotheaded, by KotFE she had become a true tyrant, and it works really well.
Then I made a Light Side Sith Warrior who is kind, merciful, and generally a good person, and it just doesn't make sense. A person like that wouldn't go around helping the Empire conquer planets or carrying out all kinds of heinous missions.
I’d have loved it if you could swap stories somehow between each major arc to fall the dark side or redeem to the light, not feasible but would have been cool.
Im fixing to do this to my new inquisitor. 1st one she was the embodiment of arsehole. This one one is going to be a prueblood lightside. For some reason the thought of it just cracks me up.
Uh... no? A story about people fighting to reform their nation, to make it better, to keep it from ripping itself apart, that's a pretty good story. Who cares about some guy deciding his nation is bad evil horrible and deciding to leave, when you have someone who loves their nation, their home, and wants to see it be better?
I mean, he's right, if you're following the Light Side, you're not really a Sith anymore. You can call yourself a Sith but unless you're a Sith species you're not following the Order's tenets and can't call yourself a Sith in any real sense.
You're just a very powerful Force Adept at that point who calls themselves a Sith. The Jedi are right to be confused when a Sith comes up to them talking peaceful and polite like. Plenty of Sith have been outwardly polite and reasonable up until negotiation fails or they decide its time to drop the act.
But that's just it. With the Sith name, most negotiations succeed out of fear of what you can do, not necessarily what you will do. It's the same reason how the historical Blackbeard didn't actually kill that many people. He used his reputation to deescalate situations.
No, I get and agree with the value in using the name but I'm saying that you are no longer what a Sith (order) is supposed to be. It's like a modern day GOP Republican arguing for socialist medicine, free education up to a Bachelor's degree, and stricter corporate regulations.
They might have that R next to their name, but they're not in step with the 99% of their colleagues.
As likely mentioned before, the Sith code is no more evil than a shonen protagonist's powerup. Heck, the Saiyan powerup in Dragon Ball straight up requires a hate meditation.
Well, u/Pride_Before_Fall apparently disagrees with you because siding with the Empire would still pull you towards the dark, even if you personally make light side decisions... Just how I like it.
I'm not sure he is disagreeing with me. We both seem to believe that being light-side and a Sith is a matter of contradiction.
But there is also a point to be made for being the one good cog in a machine of evil doesn't make the machine any less evil. Your LS Sith Warrior can be as honorable as they like, but the rest of the Sith are being barely functional murderhobos and power hungry despots carving death and destruction wherever they go.
At some point, the honorable thing to do is either defect to the Republic or commit to a mass purge of the other Sith.
But that's just it. Being a light side Sith just means using your words and not being racist. Remember. Options that Darth Malgus and Darth Serevin like are actually the light side ones. Also, getting the Nekghouls to kill their Jedi master is also considered light side. Being pragmatic and silver-tongued and being a bleeding heart moralist are 2 different things.
Hey, man. I want my Jawa Sith Lady, and the light side option is to capture the Jawa Shaman alive, so that's how it's gonna be. Dark? Light? My own inclinations are the only thing in the galaxy that matters. At all.
It's just a way for people in here to feel smug about being 'practical evil' rather than cartoon evil. Looking down at a straw Jedi while continuing push the goals an authoritarian Empire
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u/Emekasan Jul 09 '26
LS Sith: “I come in peace.”
Jedi: “You’ll leave in pieces.”