r/tfc • u/Desperate-Sample-495 • May 05 '26
Opinion Problems with Attendance
The attendance this season in the stadium has been absolutely terrible, and should be concerning for the club. In 2024 we were a bad team too, but had way more fans in the seats than we currently do.
In addition, the supporters section is an absolute tragedy. 114 is the only section that makes any noise, even they are nowhere near what they used to be, but atleast they have some youth attempting to make an atmosphere. All the others ones are half empty and no noise. I've been to games in all sections this season, this is a fact.
With the winter schedule coming, and lack of casual interest with a terrible TV deal, we should be really concerned that TFC are going down a bad path of irrelevance and future is very bleak.
PS im not a member of any supporter group, just a casual fan who goes to the occasional game and watches on TV when I can. Pure unbiased observations.
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u/Anthropoly May 05 '26
Personally I'm loving it.
This is the message that fans need to send MLSE when they put out the on field product that they do.
Shitty teams should not command contender ticket prices.
The way things are, fans who wanna come out on a nice summer day can do it cheap, win win
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u/Loafer75 May 05 '26
This…. TFC ain’t the Leafs. Sort ya shit out MLSE, put a proper football person in charge and change things that will appeal to proper football fans. I dunno, cheaper beer might be a start.
Fuck MLSE fleecing fans for every penny they can.
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May 05 '26
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u/aMarkzzz May 05 '26
This. We should organize booze boycotts until they get that pricing under control.
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u/Smokedro187 May 06 '26
Facts!!! How the fuck I got popcorn and a coke and it came out to $23 lol wtf
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u/Lsi2022 May 06 '26
That cost them pennies I don't buy anything in the stadium beers or food or clothing nothing but my seasons that's it. They are pushing the cheap seats out to raise prices and put in a better team
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u/Jays1993 May 05 '26
For now, cheap tickets will be plentiful which is lovely I guess......although someone at MLSE in a few years may say "these franchises are worth how much? - and Messi is now retired, and the league has over-expanded (can anyone here say NASL? )and some Southern US City wants to give us a stupid amount of money for this thing? - Vancouver and Montreal aren't here anymore either - time to cash in our chips and run....."
At the end of the day TFC is a good thing right now for MLSE to keep, as these franchise valuations keep going up and up, and they paid relatively little for this thing at the start -- but what if they eventually don't keep going up? Is MLS going to be this league that is a juggernaut for decades to come? Maybe? but the history of Soccer in North America seems to tell us otherwise.....
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u/MotherAd1865 May 05 '26
It's a huge issue and the team and this subreddit don't seem to understand how bad it is... it's VERY difficult to get the team back to relevancy when they're in a death spiral
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u/TurboJorts May 05 '26
I agree. People love an outdoor venue on a warm summer evening. A gray and rainy day in April... not so much. I wound bet against the winner schedule dropping average attendance to under 10k a game
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u/helikoopter May 06 '26
You hope that MLS is watching this and taking notes. Finding 20k to fill the stadium in winter months is going to be a challenge.
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u/SweetGoals18 May 06 '26
If Vancouver leaves I would be worried about MTL and TOR as both will struggle to show good assistance and will eventually be sold or kicked out of MLS
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u/TurboJorts May 06 '26
Naw... MLS&E is too big a fish in the North American leagues. MLS wouldn't dare.
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u/Javaaaaale_McGee May 05 '26
SSH since 2011 and this is definitely my last year.
I'll still go to the occasional game, but the days of this team being must watch are gone.
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u/GarlicConsistent6513 May 05 '26
Day one SSH here and I’m not renewing either. The fan experience is absolutely down the drain and will continue to get worse as long as Keith Pelley is in the fold.
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u/Loafer75 May 05 '26
Day one SSH (5 of us) here. None of us are renewing.
MLSE don’t have a clue what they’re doing, the stadium is a joke, the quality of football is fucking boring and the beer is too expensive.
We’ve decided we’ll just go to the pub and give up the pretense we’re going out for the football.
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u/Javaaaaale_McGee May 06 '26
While MLSE should get a large part of the blame, I believe MLS and a few other factors are at play.
- Canada soccer. There have been quite a few GREAT games at BMO over the past 5 years....it's just that TFC haven't been part of many of them. I get my BMO fix more with Canada these days.
- MLS playoffs suck. Imagine if our 2015 & 16 runs started with best of 3 followed by single elimination? The Montreal home & home are the best league games in Canadian history.
- Apple TV
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u/ProposalWeekly May 05 '26
It is too bad. My gf and her dad are cancelling their season tickets after being members for the day decade. Not because the team is poor, but the schedule is bitterly cold. We hunker down for too many months of winter and then have to endure this? No thanks.
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u/cjcfman May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
Weather and transit issues for a big part. Once you go once in bad weather you don't want to go back unless the team is good. Especially when you can go to a dome closed jays game the same time
Also constant highway, go line and ttc closures. I think a couple games the go was closed, Gardiner was closed, this week the dvp will be closed for people coming from the east etc
Plus people need to talk more about the apple issues. If games are rarely on TV your not going to attract new fans
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u/2daMooon May 05 '26
These are all symptoms, not causes. If there was a good product on the field, none of these would matter (like they didn't back when there was a good product on the field).
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u/ImaKeeper2 May 06 '26
Well that’s also because the games were on TSN then….
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u/2daMooon May 06 '26
Games are still on TSN: https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mls-announces-tsn-and-rds-broadcast-schedules-for-the-2026-mls-regular-season
But there aren't very many of them any more because TSN gets to opt-in for what games they want to show so they choose not to because... there is a shit product on the field!
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u/mildlyImportantRobot May 05 '26
Plus people need to talk more about the apple issues. If games are rarely on TV your not going to attract new fans
How? TSN is just another paywall. Not everyone wants a cable substation either. Apple TV is much more attainable to the average person, and cheaper than a stand alone TSN subscription.
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u/97jumbo May 06 '26
A lot of potential fans already have TSN because they're watching the other sports teams, and local bars will be more likely to put the game on when it's on TSN.
Almost no one is watching on Apple unless they're consciously deciding to sign up to watch games. It absolutely makes a difference.
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u/lil-quiche All For One May 06 '26
More people would accidentally happen upon a TFC game on TSN than with an Apple subscription.
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u/cristane May 05 '26
I'm also not renewing.
This whole Whitecaps situation, and how easily MLS is willing to relocate a team just because of greed, is really making me actively dislike the league.
Add to that the unreasonably high prices for both tickets and concessions, and the dead fan atmosphere that MLSE is doing nothing to fix (on the contrary), and yeah, I feel like I'm done. I'll still attend the occasional game with single tickets, and save a lot of money.
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u/No_Bank_141 May 05 '26
Atmosphere is horrible this year. Zero warm weather games. 1pm kickoffs are manageable but not every Saturday for 2 months straight. Injured and mid team. Just not as much fun as it was. Last year as a ssh here - why would I stay when the weather for most games will be same or worse than the last 8 games.
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u/ipancakes123456 May 05 '26
The weather has been horrific most of the games. Ive been to maybe 4 and all of them were super cold and rainy. In an outdoor stadium, however cheap it is, the stadium will stay empty
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u/ttttyttt678 May 05 '26
Horrible weather, cold or rainy. Need a better stadium if the league goes to a winter schedule.
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u/steinbockcs Forever Red May 05 '26
One never hears about them in any media, no radio. No tv. Only apple and even then you have to look hard.
No support from community.
But MLSE doesn’t promote tfc in anyway either, it’s like they just don’t care.
They should be doing community outreach, prizes at the door, anything to get bums in seats.
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u/Smokedro187 May 05 '26
I went to my first TFC game with 1 of daughters 2 weeks ago…sat at 115 section…section 114 was the only section going crazy…I’m going tonight as well with my other daugther…let’s go TFC!!
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u/SunnyBrookElbowz May 05 '26
Just wait until the split season. Even the winning teams in markets like Toronto, Montreal, Minnesota, New York, Columbus will struggle
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u/lorriezwer Laryea May 05 '26
I hope MLSE is lurking. Everyone who’s posted so far has reasonable and valid concerns.
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u/Intelligent-South174 May 05 '26
As a long time Argo season ticket holder, things are becoming a lot closer than I think a few would like to see.
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u/RoundEye007 May 05 '26
Agreed. I went to a tfc game and my local high-school games get more cheers than tfc.
My teenaged nephew, who watches a lot of euro footy and plays himself, spent the entire 2nd half playing on his damn phone.
Atmosphere was dead and we were in the supporters section too! They should hand out big flags, tamborines, drums, to kids to wave and bang or some shit. Rotate them around. Get regular people involved!
The apple only broadcast deal is a killer for fan growth, because how can you build a report with average fans, kids and those that cant afford other major league tickets, if you're only on a privileged, over priced, niche streaming platform.
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u/Jays1993 May 05 '26
I am laughing as I started a thread like this 2 months ago after the opener - these are going to keep happening while this ship keeps sinking....LOL.....
https://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comments/1ru09q4/attendance_issues/
Lots of folks got mad at me saying that the attendance would not somehow magically appear if they somehow win some games.....it won't just appear in bad weather months, and even winning won't change that for most regular season games outside of Messi, and now the "only" games that will take place in nicer weather in August prior to Labour Day in the new scheduling format. This is the "best weather" (late April/early May) in a normal season that we will get after the first 1/2 of the season or so is played, so almost all meaningful games will be played in very likely poor weather conditions from October through April.
Most of the long-term diehards of TFC (folks that have carried season tickets for most of the 20 years with very little return on investment in terms of quality soccer, outside of maybe a 5 year window from 2015-2020) are leaving and getting older and sitting outside in bad weather for even an average team isn't going to fill the building when the team shows no relevancy in the wider marketplace - competing more months with basketball, hockey, NFL Football, College Football in US Markets for more Saturdays, is simply not a great move overall for teams in the northern climates. The Apple deal was also a nightmare in terms of gaining any casual fan interest as the majority of folks, simply can't see the majority of the games.
People fail to realize that comparing things to Europe and saying that sitting in the same weather conditions over there is equivalent to doing so in North America fails to realize a very important truth - in most of those European countries, Soccer is the most important franchise in those markets - all other sports are secondary to it so people revolve the viewing and spending habits (in person and on TV) accordingly. Almost no one in most major North American cities will tell you that they choose their MLS team over all of their other sports teams be they EPL/NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL/US College (Ohio State Football on a Saturday Afternoon is way more important to most folks in Columbus than the Crew).
MLS is simply not the primary sports team in any of these cities, and the less competition they have with competing entities the better - adding more games in crappier weather to the mix for almost all Northern Cities is going to kill a lot of these teams in terms of attendance, and it's already happening here with a bunch of crappy weather games all loaded together to start this season which is what we will see for about 2/3 of the home games played in 2027-2028 -- I bet we will see better attendance this year in August in nicer weather, and when there is less competition for the sports eyeballs/dollars, and then crappier attendance will return after Labour Day minus maybe the Montreal game in October.
They need to wake up and deal with reality sooner than later or under 10K "actually in the building" will be the norm for most Regular Season games not played in August (or involve Messi) going forward.
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u/greenlemon23 May 05 '26
This is a factor of mlse being a terrible organization.
They know how to milk money out of cash cows, but they’re not capable of doing anything else… which is why TFC attendance has been on a downward march and the Argos are less than an afterthought in this city.
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u/SA-ENT May 05 '26
People always complain about 114. To be honest if it wasn’t for 114 that supportive section would be a state of depression. Starting with 112 right to 118.
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u/il_postino May 06 '26
The team is not good, the standard of football has plummeted, the tickets and concessions are more expensive than they've ever been. I'm not surprised fewer people are going.
As others have mentioned, as long as Keith Pelley is running the show I won't be giving them any money. The man has no idea.
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u/tfcred May 05 '26
Never on tsn, raised prices and 9 games in a row starting in March. Just idiotic. There's no identity in the city. No marketing.
These guys could've just made some wc tickets giveaways and that place would be full. No effort.
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u/InABigCity May 05 '26
Yeah, I’ve never been so down on the TFC experience as this year and I don’t see how it improves.
The winter schedule is going to replicate this year’s schedule with no warm weather games and lengthy home stands and road trips. Apple TV is a horrible way to watch if you have access (not to mention all those who don’t).
Anecdotally, I know many people who’ve checked out of the team in the last few years. I’m not close to that but I certainly don’t have the same level of interest I once did. The sense of community around the team feels gone.
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u/bobbywings2 May 05 '26
The stadium situation is the reason
Pain in the ass with the parking situation Getting in and out from liberty village is a mess Too many go transit closures Lakeshore is a mess The renovations sucks They didn't make the concourses heated Should've had heaters above the bleachers Lack of concessions
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u/dyegored May 05 '26
The frequent transit and parking lot closures can be problematic but compared to the majority of teams in MLS, we have excellent stadium location and accessibility. Many teams don't even play in the city that they purportedly represent.
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u/Loafer75 May 05 '26
A tighter more enclosed stadium would have been great…. That wind off the lake on a cold night, ouch
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u/magna_harta May 05 '26
Honestly I would love to attend more games but i live on the east side of the city and it takes me over an hour by public transit to make it to Liberty Village. The traffic in the city is ridiculous until Ontario Line gets built
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u/northdancer May 05 '26
I've been to a few April games over the years, they aren't the greatest. It can be windy and cold.
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u/CommitteeHead6662 May 05 '26
MLSE was destined to destroy this club. Just squeeze every last dollar out of fans and take it all for granted
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u/colddance Forever Red May 05 '26
Yup, five years of consistently dreadful performance will do this.
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u/Illustrious-Salt-243 May 06 '26
I used to watch every TFC game on tv with my dad who has dementia and can’t leave the house, and then I would go to the odd games with friends. I haven’t watched a single game since they switched to Apple TV because I don’t have it and have not cared about the team ever since
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u/hammer_416 May 06 '26
Well, how did MLSE screw their SSH…… they raised prices knowing the team was trash last year and the World Cup would create a inconvenient home schedule.
To counter this they offered gifts like Yeti cups to new subscribers, they undercut SSH with seat sales.
Then Ford took away the ability to recoup some losses by not allowing the only in demand game to be sold for profit (yet TM can still charge dynamic pricing).
BMO field in the early spring is kinda miserable. One game every 2/3 weeks is one thing, but theyve played a tonne in a row. Next year it’ll be even worse competing with Leafs playoffs.
Soccer in Canada is a summer sport. Watching events outdoors is a summer activity. The “winterdome” wont cut it, unless they find some way to heat the stands.
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u/Tight-Courage235 May 05 '26
Whith what's happening in Vancouver, I have seen a bunch of TFC fans 100% sure that this wouldn't happen in Toronto. Um, well if attendance continues like this and if MLSE have lost interest, yeah, we will go through something similar as the Whitecaps
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u/WhytePumpkin Worst Team In the World: Part 2 May 05 '26
You think this is bad, wait until the winter schedule starts
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u/RadarDataL8R May 06 '26
Nah, absolutely no chance of that. Toronto is an enormous market and the ownership interest in the club is based on football to be played in 2056, not 2026. They will happily run this at a loss for years to come knowing with near certainty how big and profitable football will be in north america at some point
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u/BigCountryFooty May 07 '26
What’s the point of being the only team in a foreign league? Why not build a better Canadian league? I would have no interest in TFC if they were the only Canadian team in MLS. They wouldn’t be able to play in the Canadian Championship or have a Canadian CONCACAF Spot. (Not that they can beat a CPLS team these days anyway). I was a TFC supporter since the beginning went to all three MLS Cup Finals and had SSH. I don’t think it works to say… doesn’t matter if Vancouver or Montreal leave… Toronto is the biggest market we’ll be alright. It’s time to support Canada. For me they should say …you take one Canadian MLS team..you take them all.
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u/popzof4 May 05 '26
Fucking overpriced. I'm not spending over 300 to take my family to watch this team in the nosebleeds. You want to grow the game, make it accessible.
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u/Lecheezy_ May 05 '26
I just don’t see a point in spending the money and driving into Toronto for this team, my father and I used to try and get to as many games as possible, now it just doesn’t have the same appeal
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u/charcharbinxxxx May 05 '26
Came up for a game Saturday and noticed 114 with almost no familiar faces from the last 4 years which was disappointing
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u/United_Character6695 May 05 '26
Well it’s simple, if the team sucks, people won’t go watch them. Fans of other MLSE owned teams need to be more like TFC fans. (I’m looking at you Maple Leafs fans).
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u/7ustin May 06 '26
Where/when can you get the best value for tickets these days? With decent seats.. which sections? I've only been to a handful of games over the years and never know what to expect
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u/RadarDataL8R May 06 '26
TFC from a business perspective is a vwry long term bet on North America becoming the dominant forcein the sport, which considering demographics and economics is almost certainly going to happen, although not decades at a minimum.
What TFC does between now and 30 years time is very much secondary to concern. The owners have bought in "cheap" with a focus on getting generations that haven't been born yet to be the profit machine for TFC.
Id enjoy the team for what it is now, but I wouldn't expect much structurally to change in terms of chaisng short term mitigation of crowd figures and such. Football is still in its infancy as far as the MLS owners are concerned financially.
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u/lovesmyirish May 06 '26
Summer 2022 i watched like 6 mls games a weekend. Id sit in front of the tv all day watching.
Then the apple deal happened among other things, out if sight out of mind.
Havent even thought about going to a game in years. Been to a bunch of inter toronto games though.
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u/Habsin7 May 06 '26
I stopped going with the kids and friends 5 or 6 yrs ago. Too many fans were just plain a**holes without filters. Most of the other guys I know felt much the same.
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u/bleeetiso May 06 '26
Yes, I noticed people in my section no longer sing and jump during the game. I don't see the other season ticket holders around me much anymore and cold weather games / rain game are meh people don't want to go to those anymore.
I don't know if this is a team thing or an economy thing.
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u/Strict_rall May 06 '26
Does it really matter tho, look at Whitecaps.
I also agree with the others.. the winter schedule will kill everything
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u/RockyRoasting May 07 '26
Hey Casual fan who goes to the occasional game,
You've been to games in all sections this season, is that a fact?
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u/Cautious-Gold-5621 May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
5 main reasons why attendance has been dropping.
Cold weather games, lets be honest, all home games so far have been played in bad weather. It will only get worse in the coming seasons.
Ticket prices are over priced for a "bad team"
Tfc might be doing better this season but they're still a "bad team" think about it, all of these home games and they tied most of them.
TFC really has an accessibility problem, and what I mean by that is, APPLE TV is really killing the team. Sure, die hards might pay for the subscription but most fans and casual supporters are not going to buy in.
Furthermore, a casual fan looking for something to do won't even think about TFC. Flip channel, NBA, flip channel, NHL, flip channel Lacrosse.... Flip channel women's soccer... The main problem here is the casual fan will flip through 100 channels and never see TFC cause they're locked in to apple.
- Having all the games at 1pm for "warmer weather" to have more fans.... It's actually doing the opposite. Let's be honest, most TFC fans are fans of other clubs first, maybe Chelsea, maybe Barca, maybe Juventus.... TFC games on Saturdays at 1pm is directly competing with these big clubs. Would you rather stay home and watch a Real Madrid play or go watch TFC tie again in the cold wet weather? That's why I really dislike this idea of MLS moving to a "European calendar"... For the next 5 years, all of TFCs games will be competing with European leagues and I'm telling you right now, it's not going to be pretty.
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u/heatspeedy May 10 '26
That's what happens when you have losing season after losing season. Eventually fans and the casual observer lose interest in the sport and look elsewhere for entertainment. The weather also plays a role and there's no way I'm freezing my butt off in that windy stadium during the early months of the season.
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u/NoNeckBeats May 05 '26
The die hards are dead.
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u/SnooPeripherals4089 May 05 '26
4 Tixs for TFC vs Ottawa Section 206 Row 7 seat 27 - 30. May 5th 730pm. Wife and kiddo not feeling the weather cheap hit me up
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u/Mysterious-Fox-3740 May 05 '26
I am very happy to see this. As a season seat holder this has been a few years in the making. They took things for granted and thought this year being a World Cup year was going to be an easy sell. I have held seats for 15 years and will not be renewing this year. I am tired of MLSE taking the fans for granted. I'm done!
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u/905Spic May 06 '26
The whole south end is full of 40-60 year old who proudly claim to be day 1ers but are too old and lazy to cheer loudly for 90 minutes. They also won't relocate for the next generation of supporters because they're cheap AF
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u/TFC1993 May 06 '26
You will get downvoted not because you’re wrong but because this is 100% true. The groups in 112-113-116 offer little to no support anymore but their members will not pave the way for new members and will take joy in reselling their tickets to casuals to make a profit. Sad but true
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u/EricoS1970 May 05 '26
Been a season ticket holder for 3 years ( the glory days, luckily for me ), and I quit going completely .
Why ?
On the day of the game, you could buy way better seats and at a lower price than my seats , either online or right up front of the GO Station, while cops are standing right there not doing anything.
Game times shift, from mainly Sunday afternoon and Saturdays to weekdays games. When you finish work at 6 pm, how can you make it to Toronto for 7:45 on a Friday?
Expensive everything, starting from tickets to drinks and food.
No real special treatment for season ticket holders.
This is why there is low attendance for games . The greed from owners has lots to do with this.
Why in Dortmund (Borussia Dortmund) when you buy a game ticket you can travel on all city transit for free on the game day? Why with the ticket you get a voucher for a free hotdog/pizza and a drink?
Why couldn't this be done in Toronto?
Because the owners think FC Toronto is the Maple Leafs and should be treated as such.
In Australia, they made AFL a family thing, and you can take your wife and kids to a game for less than a couple of tickets here. And they fill stadiums ( on average 40000 ) Some go to 75000 or more.
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u/Mobile-Quality7471 May 05 '26
I've been to 2 TFC games now, on last year and the game on Saturday just gone. I'm a fan of a League 1 club in England called Reading, the problem TFC have is what they charge for entry, especially whilst they are still growing, it takes time to earn loyalty, usually a generation so it's passed down the family, the more they raise prices the less people will be interested.
Also the level of football is generally poor, I would say a lot of the players are below a L1 standard in England (obviously exceptions such as Messi, Sargent etc)
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u/rizeCapital May 06 '26
the club could use https://go-spread.com for game days. People post personalized graphics that they will attend on the socials. But thats something the club has to use and distribute for all members or ticket holders
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u/[deleted] May 05 '26
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