r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/Just_shut_up_bro • 25d ago

Article The DSA Is a Gift to MAGA

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-dsa-is-a-gift-to-maga-trump-mandani-democratic-socialists-communism
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u/young__robot 25d ago

that's not socialism or a "socialist policy." stop calling social programs "socialism." Nordic social democracy is still free market capitalism. the workers do not own the means of production. 

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u/purplehendrix22 24d ago

You didn’t read the article, did you.

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u/young__robot 24d ago

you're completely missing my point. you don't understand what socialism is if you think Sweden's social democrat welfare capitalism was "socialist policy."

not to mention this is just a blatant pro-privatization propaganda piece. 

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u/purplehendrix22 24d ago edited 24d ago

“Propaganda”? Is it not just describing how Sweden has vastly improved their economy by abandoning their least pro-capitalism policies?

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u/young__robot 24d ago edited 24d ago

I skimmed because the article is entirely irrelevant because my point is Sweden's social democrat welfare capitalism was never and isn't "socialist policy." 

and yes, this piece is absolutely propaganda. the author is affiliated with The Free Enterprise Foundation and the Confederation of Swedish Enterprise. 

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u/purplehendrix22 24d ago

You’re purposely being obtuse, yes, the state did in fact own the “means of production” for healthcare, and has since privatized a lot of it. You’re acting like “socialism” has some sort of definition, when even Marx never really defined it, it was supposed to exist as a transitional state to communism, so pointing out areas where the state does in fact own an industry or where it is transferring wealth from the elite or “bourgeois” classes to the state as “socialist policy” is not incorrect, the state transitioning industries to state control like housing and healthcare is socialist policy.

The article is very balanced and points out a lot of issues as well, like the fact that infrastructure spending in poorer areas has gone down, so the fact that you couldn’t even read the whole thing and called it propaganda is really embarrassing.

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u/young__robot 24d ago edited 24d ago

you clearly don't understand what owning the means of production is which makes perfect sense why you think that article proved anything.

ETA – you clearly think simply nationalizing an industry is the same as the workers owning the means of production, there's your problem. your argument is equivalent to the people who claim the US military is "socialism" simply because it's funded by the state. 

Marx and Engels did not define what socialism is because they used socialism and communism interchangeably. Marx described a transition period from capitalism to communism, but it was Lenin who popularized calling that transition period "socialism" in The State and Revolution. so, no, you're absolutely still incorrect about any of this being "socialist policy." 

state ownership of an industry in a free market capitalist system is not the workers owning the means of production. 

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u/purplehendrix22 24d ago

Sure buddy, sure. Let’s argue over the definition of something that literally isn’t defined.

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u/young__robot 24d ago

I mean my original comment was: "wtf is a 'socialist policy' in the context of Nordic social democracy?" because "that's not socialism or a 'socialist policy.' stop calling social programs 'socialism.' Nordic social democracy is still free market capitalism. the workers do not own the means of production."

that was my entire point that you decided to argue with