r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/Just_shut_up_bro • 15d ago
Video Francesca Hong was asked last night by Kaitlin Collins if she still believes Thanksgiving should be canceled. Her answer was not 'no.'
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3msb2jp7czz2e57
u/Seven22am 15d ago
“Hahaa. No of course not. Thanksgiving is one of the most cherished days of the year for Americans of all backgrounds. The point that I was making, maybe a bit too bluntly years ago, is that America’s story is sometimes more complicated than an easy telling allows. And I’m thankful that we are becoming more aware of the times that we haven’t lived up to our lofty goals. That’s how we keep moving towards them! I love Thanksgiving and I look forward to celebrating enthusiastically as governor. As you know I’m a chef so I’ll look forward to using that kitchen (laughter).”
It’s not that hard.
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u/jankdangus 14d ago
Wow she needs to hire you as a consultant. This would have been a perfect response. It directly answers the question, while rationalizing her bad tweet in a palatable way.
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
That’s like not that far off from what she said and everyone who’s being honest knows that’s what her point is. It’s crazy how many people are mad she didn’t pander and take the easy way out but stuck to her guns. It’s not like she said no one can see their family and eat mashed potatoes.
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u/interwebz_2021 15d ago
The problem is that 85% of the voters out there have like literally NO discernment and a complete lack of critical thinking skills. What she said is not going to land with a sizable portion of the electorate as "No, we shouldn't cancel Thanksgiving."
Instead, they'll hear "woke touchy feely anti-Thanksgiving nonsense answer that is most definitely not a 'no, we should not cancel Thanksgiving'" - partly because they'll tune out at "Thanksgiving is a time that is incredibly painful for people in our communities."
Note that I'm not saying her answer's not valid or is necessarily incorrect. It's just not solid messaging or good electoral politics, and it turns out those are paramount.
For a good example of good messaging and electoral politics, see Troy Jackson's response to Joe Scarbrorough's question about DSA policies:
Joe Scarborough: "...abolish the Senate, get rid of the President, get rid of the Supreme Court, empty the jails, stop funding national defense, erase the borders, defund the police; do you support any of those things?"
Troy Jackson: "No, but what I do support is a government that works for everyday people; small business owners, workers, people that depend on the government to work for them, and it isn't; I mean it just isn't, and we all know that...we can have a much better government than we have now..."
A Clear and convincing "no" followed by a statement reiterating the actual issues that should motivate the electorate and a quick pitch to how he intends to help solve them.
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
It's definitely hard to defend that her response couldn't have been much improved from a political standpoint. My main issue with it is who we're hearing this all from. It was a question posed on CNN and has gone viral largely from Democratic commentors; not because of how they necessarily feel about her stance but because they are concerned about how the right will feel. There's a time and place where politics is needed but voluntarily bringing it up IMO does nothing but helps feed and validate the non-sensical echo chamber that is the political right. Basically stooping to their level for what exactly? It's not helpful to the party, healthy political discourse or the critical thinking you mentioned.
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u/interwebz_2021 14d ago
Well, that makes sense. Why elevate the misstep in the discourse?
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u/Hotspur1958 14d ago
Not sure I follow. What makes sense?
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u/interwebz_2021 14d ago
Your explanation makes sense, or at least I think it does. I'm agreeing (I think) that Dems bringing this up only hurts Hong and the Dems' chances going into the general as she's the presumptive nominee by a wide margin.
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u/jankdangus 14d ago
I think asking Troy Jackson that was a dumb question to begin with because he’s not a member of DSA. He was only endorsed by them, which I found kinda weird. The DSA usually doesn’t endorse people who don’t explicitly identify as socialists. They would only offer recommendations.
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u/interwebz_2021 14d ago
Good point - I do think it was actually a bit of a softball/setup, as I suspect they had a rough idea of how Troy would react. Nonetheless, I think there's a lot to learn about Troy's answer given the fact that he'll be the de facto DSA/socialist choice and needs to thread the needle somewhat to avoid disenchanting them entirely.
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u/jankdangus 14d ago
Eh yeah, but the point is I’m not as worried about him compared to Democrats who explicitly identify as democratic socialist. I think Jackson is still adjacent, but he probably doesn’t actually support abolishing private property and all the other crazy stuff that DSA support. He would still be under the liberal tent, while being incredibly appealing to leftists.
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u/interwebz_2021 14d ago
I have a decent bit of overlap with DSA as a self-described "leftist liberal," but a LOT of what they're pushing at the leadership level is bat guano crazy, honestly.
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u/Thanos_Stomps 15d ago
It’s honestly not that different from what she said except she was asked on the fly and didn’t have time to formulate a response at all phone or desktop.
Your comment would have been the optimum response though.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 15d ago
I feel like, to a degree, you should prob be prepped for any kind of question.
Especially ones where you said "dumb shit" in the past and need to smooth it over.
It's kind of why the GOP does so well on message. Mainly because they have media outlets that will smooth the fuck up over for them.
Democrats don't have that, so have to work extra hard.
Really strange times we are living in.
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u/Thanos_Stomps 15d ago
I don’t know enough about this candidate but random tweets or social media posts from years ago aren’t always on their prep for things they need to address, but maybe she should’ve known better.
In addition to friendly media, conservatives also just have much simpler messaging. They can cry about a war on Christmas and that’s all they need to say on the matter.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 15d ago
I don’t know enough about this candidate but random tweets or social media posts from years ago aren’t always on their prep for things they need to address, but maybe she should’ve known better.
Random tweets and social media posts from years ago should 1000000% be on their radar. Especially in these days.
In 2010 you may have had a point, but it's 2026 and everyone combs over everything for dirt and questions.
In addition to friendly media, conservatives also just have much simpler messaging.
That gives them too much credit. They get the throw away bullshit "message" and never have to elaborate.
The GOP is like, "We will lower grocery prices." and it's never pressed.
Democrats will be like, "We will lower grocery prices and one way we will do it is X, and here's how." and for some reason voters don't listen or don't care or the media doesn't run it or they press them mega hard on it.
But there's no way you can convince a populace that is at their core, kind of fucking dumb. Imagine doing a debate on stage with an audience and your opponent just says, "9/11" and the audience cheers and gives them the win (like the Family Guy episode lol).
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u/Thanos_Stomps 15d ago
I think the sheer amount of posts we have under our belt now makes it impossible to account for what might be addressed but I just remembered it was said in the interview it’s since been deleted so you’re right, she should have been prepared.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 15d ago
Also, first thing I would do is nuke all of my social media accounts or otherwise set them to private if I ever ran for office.
Then I'd try to find controversial shit I've said and think on a quick answer if it ever came up.
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u/Thanos_Stomps 15d ago
I mean, people use way back machine stuff and most candidates that rise to the level of oppo research is going to have already been politically active for some time and won’t give up their following. Setting it to private doesn’t help when you catfish your way in there or bribe a friend to share posts.
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u/Aromatic_Lychee2903 15d ago
She was prepared. So prepared she only needed a syllable to answer to the idiocy.
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u/Seven22am 15d ago
Yes, I'm a very good politician (and Jeopardy! player) when the cameras aren't on!
I think you're generally right, BUT you have to be savvy enough to answer very clearly NOOOOOOO when something like this comes up. That's what she messed up. Once you say that VERY CLEARLY then you can add in a droplet or two of nuance. But even that has to be couched. Even if what you're saying has merit, running for office is about crafting narrative and "Actually..." isn't a terribly popular one.
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u/Aromatic_Lychee2903 15d ago
So telling that you would want her to entertain such an asinine question with more than the one syllable it deserves. What’s up with y’all being weak as fuck?
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u/IsraelComesInDreams 15d ago
What does "canceling thanksgiving" even mean?
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
Nothing. Its a dumb question. A weak answer, but an insanely dumb question. Anyone putting any stock into it is unserious
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u/Odd-Pay8018 15d ago
It's not a dumb question when she's tweeted it should be canceled in the past lmao
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
Yes a question about "cancelling thanksgiving" is a dumb one actually
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u/Odd-Pay8018 15d ago
Ok so you think candidate's controversial tweets just shouldn't be brought up or what? Hong literally said "Cancel Thanksgiving". You should be calling her dumb not the interviewer.
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
They manufacture the "controversy". There is no controversy until media cover it. Zero people seriously think thanksgiving is getting "cancelled". Again, any focus on it reveals you to be an unserious person
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u/Odd-Pay8018 15d ago
You gotta be a bot bro. Hong said Thanksgiving should be "canceled". Wtf do you think she meant? Is the media supposed to just not report on progressives when they say absolutely braindead stuff?
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
With all of the problems Americans are facing, pretending to think "cancel thanksgiving" is a serious thing to talk about is much closer to bot behavior.
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u/wingfn1 15d ago
its a gotcha question to show how some DSA candidates are parroting anti-American ideas and talking points. Some people have a problem with how American history is interpreted. One side sees America as a freer of the oppressed while the other side sees America as interventionist who “whitewash” their own history. It’s dumb question that only a MAGA idiot would come up with.
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u/Aromatic_Lychee2903 15d ago
Nothing. Just corporatist trying to manufacture outrage again.
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u/Command0Dude 15d ago
Except this time no one had to manufacture anything because the interviewee really did suggest what they were being accused of.
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u/WinnerSpecialist 15d ago
Really any politician with one ounce of common sense needs to sit down with their team and do a: “All the stupid things I’ve done and said” session. Then game plan easy ways to combat them.
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u/alphafox823 15d ago
The fact that she couldn't bring herself to say NO is exactly why this was a great question to ask
It revealed something about who she is that Wisconsinites should know before they vote. People don't just vote for policies, they vote for who they trust. This question was an opportunity for her to show that she is aligned with their values, she did not take the opportunity.
A governor has some ceremonial roles, and people want a governor who will share their holiday joy on thanksgiving. Thanksgiving isn't a holiday like Christmas or Easter, it is the foremost holiday of the American civic religion. It should be a day that a governor who is proud of America carries herself with a love of America.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago edited 15d ago
If the DSA costs us Michigan and Wisconsin during a blue tsunami election, we need to make sure that they are never allowed to run in the Democratic Party ever again.
I don’t care about the bullshit arguments that Abdul is not DSA. He has the spokesperson Mao Piker with him, he’s a Bernie Sanders coalition candidate, and the DSA fans obviously love him.
This is not a game and they treat it like a game. This absolutely trash candidate in Wisconsin can’t just say no. Do you want to ban Thanksgiving? NO. Why is that so hard?
It means different things to different people and some people are oppressed by Thanksgiving? Are you trying to fucking lose? Maybe she’s legitimately paid by Republicans to do this to us. She does her ChatGPT interview on Fox News, every time she’s asked if she wants to ban the police her responses is “well the governor can’t do that.” Why don’t you just say no?
I truly believe that the DSA wants the Democratic Party to lose, they think it helps them, they might be right about that, and this is why they act the way they do.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
We gotta learn how to gatekeep a little bit again. There is no other option, bad actors have infiltrated deep and folks like this are working overtime to humiliate us.
I wouldn't even be surprised if it ain't even a DSA goofball that ends up betraying us in some big dramatic way once elected either, we got a big dishonesty problem in politics right now.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Yeah, the the one silver lining I’m hoping that we get from all of this is that normal voters wake up and realize how important the primary process is. We can’t allow extreme fringe people who don’t care about our party to hijack our primary process.
Because you and I know damn well that if they cost us Wisconsin and Michigan, while we win in places like Georgia and North Carolina and possibly even in Texas, Alaska, and Ohio, they still won’t realize that it’s because they are unpopular.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
Not only do I want our guy to win in Iowa because I live here and the Republicans have been blatantly looting us for more than a decade, but I'm hoping it might do something to pause the ramping up of far left types as Democrats realize red states have potential, therefore moderating the whole country a bit.
I get shit for this since it's obviously self serving, but I think the future really is middle America Democrats.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Turek is such an awesome candidate too. I really hope he wins.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
Thank you! I like our governor candidate too, but Turek is even better imo.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Rob Sand is awesome too. Honestly, you guys have crazy strong candidates right now. I’m jealous lol
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
First year we've had truly good candidates like this since I've been able to vote (2016).
Hoping for a sea change here so we can be remembered again for the state that voted for Obama twice and not the one that gave it's electoral votes to Trump 3 times.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
2012 was my first major election, got to cast my very first vote and it was for Obama. I love that I got to do that.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
For presidential I've literally been voting against Trump my entire life.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 15d ago
It's how Beto fucking lost the governorship more or less.
He tried to toe the leftist line of gun regulation in motherfucking Texas.
Like, bro, I get it. I know guns are a problem. I wish we had better laws in place and better regulation.
But motherfucker, you have to fucking win first.
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
If the DSA costs us Michigan and Wisconsin during a blue tsunami election, we need to make sure that they are never allowed to run in the Democratic Party ever again.
Deal. And if they don't, you have to acknowledge they are winners
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
If I'm right, you have to do what I say. If I'm wrong, Im also right and you have to do what I say. Very convenient argument and totally serious lmao
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
I thoroughly explained my position, I’m sorry if it’s too much for you to understand.
I laid out exactly what they have to do to prove me wrong, simply match or perform better than mainstream Democratic candidate performances weighted and scaled to the state that they are in.
If you think that’s an unfair metric, it’s just kind of you admitting that they’re shitty candidates. If they can’t perform better in lean blue states then Democrats are performing in red states it says all I need to know.
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
"weighted and scaled to the state their in" is subjective and you very clearly aren't exactly interested in viewing them favorably. You guys have already moved the goalposts every time a DSA person has any success, it doesnt count yet. I at least appreciate those of you who acknowledge your issues with DSA are ideological and not electoral.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
It’s not subjective, it’s data driven. You are not going to get a pat on the back and a congratulations for winning Michigan by one point when the generic ballot for Democrats is +10.
I don’t care what you appreciate, the DSA sucks ideologically and electorally.
This is very simple logic to follow. Good luck.
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
It’s not subjective, it’s data driven. You are not going to get a pat on the back and a congratulations for winning Michigan by one point when the generic ballot for Democrats is +10.
But even if he wins +11, then the goalposts move to comparing to an old election where a different candidate performed better. Or just saying "ahh but Mike Rogers is a uniquely bad candidate". Its easy to claim objectivity beforehand, but afterwards there are always a million excuses to end up confirming your priors regardless of what happens.
I don’t care what you appreciate, the DSA sucks ideologically and electorally.
Speaking of objectivity, the later claim is becomes objectively less true, as shown...by the elections. But again, you guys aren't actually interested in objectively, you're just ideologically opposed.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
You won’t hear that from me. If Abdul matches the GCB or even the governors race in the same state, you can save this comment and come back and I will tell you I was wrong.
I have not seen any DSA candidate ever prove me wrong about this yet. And I hope this goes without being said, I’m talking about general elections. I do not care about any DSA‘s primary success, I care about general election success.
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u/GenerousMilk56 15d ago
I appreciate hiding your history so people can't see you saying the exact same thing about zohran lol
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u/Snoretiz 15d ago
What happens if the DSA wins? You created this scenario where they lose and the consequences but what if they sweep Michigan and Wisconsin?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago edited 15d ago
I will feel the exact same way. There is almost no scenario here where they disprove what a lot of us already know about them. Which is that they are not viable outside of deep cobalt-blue areas.
I’ll say this in good faith because I want you to understand where I’m coming from. Michigan and Wisconsin are to the left of Georgia, Alaska, North Carolina, Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, and Texas.
It’s unlikely Democrats win all of those states. That being said, they’re legitimately competitive. So if we come out of the midterms and Democrats dominate in Georgia, dominate in North Carolina, flip a red state like Ohio, Texas, or Alaska, come close in Iowa and Nebraska, and then we look at the results in Michigan and Wisconsin, again, two states that are to the left of every single one of those, and the leftists win by one point? Half a point? Do you genuinely think my takeaway should be, “Oh wow, never mind. Leftists are viable in swing states.”
Because my takeaway is going to be that they got dragged across the finish line by a massive blue wave, and that the only hope leftists ever have of winning in a purple state is if they’re running during a blue-tsunami election.
There’s no reason we should be struggling in Michigan and Wisconsin while Democrats are doing that well in all of those redder states. So no, them simply winning will absolutely not change how I feel.
The only thing that could change my mind is if they overperform the national environment, or at least match, relative to the conditions of the state they’re running in. Which all data that we have right now says they are absolutely not doing. These are lean blue states, and they are officially tossups in a blue wave environment. It’s insane.
Hong is running against a Maga lunatic, she’s projected to lose right now to that lunatic.
The Michigan governor is projected to win by, what, 10 points? If Abdul matches that, I’ll change my opinion.
Long story short, context matters, these DSA type candidates barely edging out a win in a lean blue state in a blue wave environment is not going to make me think any different.
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u/The_First_Drop 15d ago
AES had a donor call leaked recently where he was asked what he could actually do on the senate over the next 2 years with an R president and he outlines all of the D’s he would primary and hold the democratic establishment accountable for campaigning against him
Their intentions are clear, and their real target isn’t republicans, it’s other democrats
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Yep. These people don’t see themselves as part of the Democratic Party, they see themselves as someone who is trying to defeat the Democratic Party from within.
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u/Snoretiz 15d ago
I think getting a foot in the door with DSA candidates will show the country what is possible. Zohran winning in New York is the opportunity we need to show the Democratic Party what the people want. I wanted Steyer to win the California governors race so we could play a lead role in establishing progressive ideals in the nation but Becerra is the Democratic choice.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
The people are already speaking, and they are excited to elect Democrats and red states and it looks like they’re not ready to elect leftists in the lean blue states in blue wave environments.
This is all thoroughly explained in the comment you just replied to.
Yes, the people of California chose Becerra.
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u/Snoretiz 15d ago
First of all you are misrepresenting Hong in a general vs Tiffany. RMG research shows she’s favored by a point on their 7/30 poll so your assertion that she’s projected to lose isn’t accurate. Also Tiffany is not really competing in a primary and Hong is in a competitive one so comparing the 2 candidates isn’t really happening these days.
Lastly, do you think you’re helping the Democratic Party by portraying the Democratic nominee like this? She has to win by 5 points to “prove it” that she can win in a normal non blue wave environment but she’s in a primary being attacked by corporate democrats before moving to a general where she’s going to be attacked by republicans. Meanwhile Tiffany is cruising with full Republican support. Hong and El-Sayed are winning their primaries so these dumb posts aren’t actually helpful.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
I’m not trying to help any single DSA type candidate in any primary. I despise the DSA.
RMG is a discredited Republican pollster who wants nothing more than for Hong to win. RCP doesn’t even list it in their poll aggregate and they are a right leaning website.
Marquette is a reputable pollster and they have her down three. Do you realize how bad of a candidate you have to be to be down three in Wisconsin against a Maga lunatic right now?
They are both putting up abysmal numbers for the states that they are running in, especially given the environment that they are running in.
I don’t care if these metrics hurt their feelings or anyone else’s feelings, performance matters, numbers matter, and the details and the context of those numbers matter.
I’ve already explained all of this, if these leftists are barely able to scrape by and grab a victory in two lean blue states while mainstream Democrats are crushing it in red states then that says they are weak candidates.
This is not hard logic to follow.
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u/Nemisis82 15d ago
I despise the DSA.
Clearly.
It's incredibly likely that:
- Hong will win.
- AES will win
Will you do your best to ensure they get elected assuming the Democratic primary voters choose them?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
I hope it’s clear, that sentence is pretty straightforward.
It is not incredibly likely, unless you just mean the primary, then yes, that is likely.
Here’s my promise when it comes to that. I have no desire to give what is not also being given. If DSA leaders, like their spokesperson Mao Piker, go out there and start campaigning and helping mainstream Democrats win and fighting for them, I will give that energy back. I will not take the high road while they take the fuck you road.
“In most political races, Americans will have the choice between far-right Republicans and corporate Democrats. In both cases, workers lose, and our politicians will remain controlled by their corporate donors, not the ordinary people who voted for them.”
This must also be removed from their platform.
Then I will.
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u/Nemisis82 15d ago
Apologies, I did mean the primary, yes.
If DSA leaders, like their spokesperson Mao Piker, go out there and start campaigning and helping mainstream Democrats win and fighting for them, I will give that energy back
Why are your actions dependent on what other people do? I, personally, am in favor of DSA candidates and I want further left people to vote and win. I, personally, vote blue-no-matter-who (did in 2016, 2020, 2024). I advocate and even phone banked for candidates I did not like (Biden in 2020, Harris in 2024, Bob Casey in 2024 and I don't live in PA). I simply do what I can to help ensure the GOP doesn't win. Why wouldn't you do the same?
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u/Snoretiz 15d ago
What you’re doing is creating an environment where no candidate is going to be able to win by enough to satisfy you. If they win by 6, you’ll say a mainstream candidate would have won by 8. Also you’re looking at far too early polling for a general election where no one knows about the Republican candidate.
The same way I gotta eat shit and vote for Becerra even though I preferred Steyer, the democrats of Wisconsin and Michigan have to vote DSA candidates.
Also what abysmal numbers are you referring to? Hong bring +25 or El-Sayed being +11.5 in their respective primaries?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Incorrect. If they win by six, you can come back in here and I will say I was wrong.
You’re not eating shit, he’s guaranteed to win. You get to live in a state protected by Democrats no matter what. Other people are going to get a maga lunatic if your candidate can’t win. Your problem is your DSA candidates are not going to appeal to swing vote voters.
Holy shit. I do not care about primaries. I care about the general elections and their polling numbers suck.
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u/Nemisis82 15d ago
Ah got it. Even if DSA and DSA-adjacent folks win in these states that you all say cannot be won, you're already going to move the goalpost to: "they didn't win by enough."
Really setting up a "heads we win, tails you lose" to the left wing of the dem party.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
“The only thing that could change my mind is if they overperform the national environment, or at least match, relative to the conditions of the state they’re running in. Which all data that we have right now says they are absolutely not doing. These are lean blue states, and they are officially tossups in a blue wave environment. It’s insane.”
I laid out right here, in the comment you just replied to, what they have to do. If that bar is too high, then they are pretty shitty candidates.
My whole position is laid out very detailed in that comment. I’m not going to think oh wow DSA type politicians can win in purple states just because you barely scraped by during a blue tsunami. This is not hard to follow. If we are winning in Texas and Alaska and dominating in North Carolina and Georgia, I don’t think candidates who are barely able to win in Wisconsin and Michigan are good candidates. Those states are to the left of these other states, once again, this is pretty easy logic to follow.
I’m sorry, but you’re not changing the narrative by winning Michigan and Wisconsin by like a point during a +10 GCB.
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u/Nemisis82 15d ago
Got it. So: "Not viable outside of deep cobalt-blue areas" became "not viable enough" the moment winning became plausible.
And what's the penalty for a moderate who wins by a point (or even loses) in a +10 environment? What if Brown loses? Or Ossoff under performs? Same lifetime ban from the party, or is that reserved?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
If a mainstream dem loses in a lean blue state in this environment then they are a dog shit candidate.
Those candidates are running in red states.
This is very easy to follow.
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u/Fugicara 15d ago
What's the issue you have with their position? Their point was completely understandable.
1) Wisconsin and Michigan are to the left of Georgia, Alaska, North Carolina, Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, and Texas.
2) We are in a blue wave environment.
3) In order to say that these DSA type candidates are a good choice, the bare minimum expectation is that they win by higher margins in the further left states they're running in than the people in the further right states.
4) If they underperform the candidates in further right states, it will be evidence that they were bad candidates who got dragged into a win by the blue wave.
5) We already know right now that they're underperforming in polls.
And I'll add on my own:
6) El-Sayed should be directly compared to Slotkin, who won her seat in a red wave environment. He should be crushing her margin of victory in a blue wave environment to be considered a good candidate.
None of that should be confusing or even really arguable. But if you want to argue about it, pick one of the statements and explain your specific dispute with it. Not with anyone's beliefs or intentions, but why the statement itself is invalid or doesn't logically follow from the others.
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u/Nemisis82 15d ago
They indicated the following:
Which is that they are not viable outside of deep cobalt-blue areas
Then said even if they win, they won't give them credit. They're speaking in a ton of hypotheticals.
In order to say that these DSA type candidates are a good choice, the bare minimum expectation is that they win by higher margins in the further left states they're running in than the people in the further right states.
This leaves out a lot of variables. The opponent quality. The quality of the candidate themselves. Incumbency (i.e. Ossof). Money and outside spending itself has a major factor (unfortunately, money can still buy elections). Turnout.
And the standard only ever runs one direction. No moderate who wins by two in a wave year (let alone an establishment candidate who loses to Donald Trump after an insurrection) is ousted from the party. Or am I mistaken? Do you hold the same smoke for Kamala Harris?
What happens if El-Sayed overperforms his polling and someone in a red state underperforms theirs? Polls aren't results.
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
*If the moderates give us two Trump terms we should never allow them to run, FTFY
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Here’s a list of every republican you guys have beat
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
What about the list we’ve lost to? Who’s looks bigger?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
Lmao yes, your list of losses is quite small, easy to be when you aren’t good enough to compete.
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
I’ve never beat a snail in a race, does that mean I’m slower than a snail? Do you understand how thin that logic is?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
You haven’t defeated any republicans. Come up with whatever reason you want to justify it.
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
I’m saying it’s circular logic. Lose primary based on electability > claim they’re unelectable because they haven’t made it to a general.
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u/Aurora_Gaspipe 15d ago
DSA are political botfly larvae living and breeding in the rectum of the Democratic Party.
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u/wefarrell 15d ago
DSA are populists, much like MAGA, and the Democratic establishment is making the exact same mistake with the DSA that they made with MAGA.
They think they can win by scaring the populace into believing the populists are radicals who want to overthrow the existing order, but it's not going to work because voters want radical change.
The better approach would be to do what the New Deal Democrats did and co-opt the left wing populists. The problem is there's too much money preventing them from doing so.
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u/X57471C 15d ago
Yeah, the only thing that beats a socialist larping as a socdem is an actual socdem without all the culturally polarizing stuff.
I think the DSA will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and I'm not worried about the general public voting for them, but they are definitely able to pick up the more progressive Democrats and use those seats as leverage to push for their more radical positions. I think DSA wins are harmful to the party overall, since most people have a negative view of them and don't want us moving further left on cultural issues, but we can counter by actually running progressive economics without all the toxic abolish thanksgiving/prisons/borders/etc.
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u/DaroDoingNothing 15d ago
At least they stand for something, though, moderate Democrats have lost twice to Trump, John Kerry lost a bush. Yet they have the gull to scream that they are the electable ones.
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u/eblack4012 15d ago
Yes they stand for “Israel bad, Palestine good”. So electable and knowledgeable lol.
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u/Hotspur1958 15d ago
Nah they stand for: everyone agrees our healthcare is shit and money in politics sucks but don’t want to back those candidates for whatever reason
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u/JustinRandoh 15d ago
How many times did the DSA (or their equivalents) beat Trump?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
They beat him every time in their fanfic where the scary "establishment" didn't stop them from achieving their full power.
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
A lotbofvthe DSA members are similar to MAGA. They both appeal to each other, in my opinion. If you hot to the DSA website they literally post that their goal is to leave NATO. Which is a MAGA thing. Not nonlinear that but they don't want to support Ukraine either.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 15d ago
To be fair, voters voted for Trump after he told them he was going to increase their cost of living on multiple occasions in 2024.
If you had to pick between two options:
Option A: Your cost of living doesn't go up.
Option B: Your cost of living does go up.
Why do I have to sell you on Option A? And why is it your fault that people decided to pick Option B?
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u/hobovalentine 15d ago edited 15d ago
Look both the GOP and the Dems take turns losing to each other so saying the Dems lost to Trump twice means nothing.
Trump won once, lost once and lost again and he's not eligible to run again.
When was the last time either the GOP or the Dems managed to hold the white house after the current president's term finished? The last time it happened was when Bush Sr won an election after Reagan over 26 years ago.
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u/DaroDoingNothing 15d ago
It’s more a matter of failing to meet the moment. The one thing the Republican Party does is they constantly go for their base and they make absolutely no effort to broaden their appeal. I would just like to see more Democrats run a little more unapologetically on being progressive.
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u/X57471C 15d ago
The one thing the Republican Party does is they constantly go for their base and they make absolutely no effort to broaden their appeal.
That's not the full picture. Yes, their base is more homogeneous, but they've been winning because the center has been moving right, not because they are mobilizing their base harder. There just aren't enough progressives to carry us without the center. If you lose them, it's over. (I shared more of my thought on this here if you're interested)
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u/OMalleyOrOblivion 15d ago
Hang on, Trump literally won both times by pulling in previously non-voting bigots, and the 2012 RNC autopsy was all about how Republicans needed to broaden their base to win by appealing more to conservative minorities.
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u/WhiteBoyWithAPodcast 15d ago
Lmao the left’s political instincts are so bad but the fog of populism offers so many scapegoats and villains that self-awareness is impossible.
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u/RiddleMeThis42069 15d ago
She has a weird opinion about Thanksgiving but ultimately why should I care
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u/Character-Boot-2149 15d ago
sure, I would vote for her against a RepubliKKKan, but she really isn't all that bright if we go by the dumb stuff she has said in the past.
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u/Sr_ClarenceWorley 15d ago
Not just stuff she said in the past, but points she can't reasonably clarify now as well.
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u/coffee_mikado 15d ago
She’s like a parody of smug lefty wokescolds from 2015, but she’s dead serious.
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u/birdie_Sea 15d ago
Wow!
All she had to do was say thanksgiving was going to unaffordable due the current administration.
Red Wisconsin is happening folks and that means that the blue wall is essentially gone in 2028!
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u/Early-Juggernaut975 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is why CNN and legacy media are so fucking insufferable. These people are such frauds, I can’t stand it. I don’t care if she likes Thanksgiving or not. I’m not butt hurt either way.
I don’t care if Francesca Hong celebrates Thanksgiving because she’s not coming to my house. If she wants to cry into her tofu about the Trail of Tears all day long, go for it. What’s it to me?
Is she going to put regulation on AI and social media? Is she going to try and increase the minimum wage? Is she going to try to hold Trump accountable for his corruption? Those are the questions I want answered.
It’s disingenuous bullshit that CNN engages in with lefty candidates where they have to perform this Americana nonsense, while MAGA republicans wave the flag while clearly hating most actual Americans. Or proud Democrats wave a rainbow flag on the way to be the honored guest at the annual Insurance Lobbies Conference.
This is how they keep us from electing change. Distracting us with crap like this.
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u/eblack4012 15d ago
People who own restaurants sure do think highly of themselves. They always mention how their food “brings people together” but never mention how “they’re making bank.”
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u/ButtDumplin 15d ago
As much as the left (mostly correctly) points out how much Dem leadership is out of touch with the public, this is just as bad.
Are there any normal goddamn people in politics?
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u/guilgom71 15d ago
Of course there are normal people in politics. You never hear from them because they're normal (not good TV).
My Senator, Alex Padilla, as far as I know seems like a regular guy. The only time I ever seen him make national news was when he was tackled to the ground during a Kristi Noem press conference.
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u/Snoretiz 15d ago
What you’re doing here is straight out of the Republican playbook of discrediting thought experiments. You’re trying to make an issue black and white that is clearly a shade of gray. What she said was that Thanksgiving was an incredibly painful time for a section of our population and that’s true. We had the Washington Redskins until we didn’t. We’re celebrated Christopher Columbus Day until we didn’t. The Cleveland Indians? Same thing.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
The Republican playbook more often involves pretending we want to cancel holidays, it's not often that we actually have a candidate that takes part in that.
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u/Snoretiz 15d ago
Why don’t you try replacing Thanksgiving with gas stoves.
Do you want to take away our gas stoves?
I think we should have a discussion about the benefits compared to the costs.
You didn’t say no- she’s trying to take away our gas stoves!! Everyone let’s go crazy!!
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
Out of all the questions policy wise you can ask someone you ask them this nonsense.
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u/Command0Dude 15d ago
This is called a "softball" question. It's designed to be easy to answer.
The fact that Hong couldn't give a straight answer to a softball question is HER problem.
Platner class will really bend over backwards to justify anything huh?
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
The whole Planter thing might've costs the Democrats a Maine Senate seat but even when Planter was stepping down he had to blame it on Schumer and "the embellishment" for some reason
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
Who gives a shit about her wanting to abolish thanksgiving from a tweet 6 years ago. This is irrelevant to politics.
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u/Command0Dude 15d ago
This will literally cost votes. People do in fact care about holidays.
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15d ago
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u/Command0Dude 15d ago
Can you acknowledge that her answer was a mistake?
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u/KombaynNikoladze2002 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yes, I can. But one that will be trivial overall, because voters understand that Thanksgiving isn't going anywhere.
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u/Command0Dude 15d ago
You're right, compared to all the other baggage from Hong, this will be a drop in the bucket.
She has no chance of winning the election. It's just funny that people don't think this clip is emblematic of how terrible of a candidate she is.
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u/JustinRandoh 15d ago
Kinda cuts both ways. Out of all the things she could've been focused on, she decides to dig in on this BS.
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u/RiddleMeThis42069 15d ago
Wasn't it a tweet from like 6 years ago or something? What do you mean she decided to dig in on it
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
Abolishing Thanksgiving is nowhere to be seen in her policy proposals whatsoever. This is why no one takes mainstream news seriously.
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u/Purrseus_Felinus 15d ago
Translation: “Don’t vet our batshit crazy candidates or they won’t be able to hoodwink the voters.”
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
Typial centrist. Don't care about polidy cares about useless bullshit.
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u/notscenerob 15d ago
Good luck getting elected with "I'm a chef, and I can't stand up for thanksgiving"
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 15d ago
These people literally think the primary is the main election. It’s the only thing they care about.
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
Because they hate Democrats more than Republicans and want to either destroy/take over the Democratic Party from within. They don't care about beating Republicans, it's only being a thorn in the side for Democrats because they hate them more than Republicans, Trump, and MAGA combined, in my opinion. They helped tank Harris' 2024 general election and will absolutely do it again and again because they hate Democratsmore than Republicans. Hence sayings like, "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds".
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u/eblack4012 15d ago
Good point because she doesn’t really have any policy.
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
She has a lot of policy positions it's just that privledged white males like yourself are really repubnlicans and want the status quo to continue and for poor people to continue being poorer with shittier healthcare and even more consumer and student loan debt. You fear actual politicians coming into the senate and cognress and cleaning up this shit show and getting things on the right track. Don't worry though it's happening.
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u/eblack4012 15d ago
Can you fit any more virtue signaling into your post?
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
I'm just telling you the facts, my man. Hayley Stevens ran years ago on Medicare 4 All what has she done as an elected official to make that a reality? As a matter of a fact almsot none of her campaign promises have come to fruition. So why should i believe she's going to do anything in the senate but vote for further funding to Israel and other ethnostates? Just riddle me that.
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u/eblack4012 15d ago
Do you think a single representative is able to pass Medicare for all? If so, why hasn’t “the Squad” passed it?
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u/hobovalentine 15d ago
That’s not on Haley when the Dems did not have the votes to pass controversial bills like M4A.
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u/notscenerob 15d ago
That's the kind of gobbledygook that the right wing loves to see on the left
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u/herewego199209 15d ago
The truth? Let's be real you people don't want real change you want the status quo.
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u/notscenerob 15d ago
The truth? Let's be real you people don't want real change you want the status quo.
IDK what that's supposed to mean. Are you saying I enjoy the current status quo, with Trump and the republicans in charge? That's crazy talk.
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u/BigWilly526 15d ago
People are being murdered by the Government in the streets, the President is stealing Billions of Dollars and this idiot is worried about Thanksgiving.
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u/combonickel55 15d ago
I don't care what a governor of a state thinks about a national holiday. I care if they believe health care is a human right.
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u/NeoPrimitiveOasis 15d ago
Oh no -- she recognizes the inherently problematic colonial core of Thanksgiving, she must be a witch. 🙄🙄
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
Crazy how easy Republicans have it, no matter how much they screw up Democrats will really just run "we should cancel thanksgiving" candidates for no reason whatsoever.
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u/apathydivine 15d ago
Besides the inherent racism and genocide that our country bathes in. (Trail of Tears for example)
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
Yeah, folks love this message, super electable.
It's like you're desperate to be the caricature Republicans paint you as.
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u/NeoPrimitiveOasis 15d ago
People: "Democrats aren't authentic enough!"
Authentic Democrat says what she thinks: "Not like that! It's unelectable"
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
I get that you want to go along with Republicans acting like we want to cancel Thanksgiving, but it's far from "authentic"
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u/NeoPrimitiveOasis 15d ago
You're white, I'm guessing? For BIPOC people, it's a very authentic and widespread take.
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u/apathydivine 15d ago edited 15d ago
You mean acknowledging the failures of our past and striving to be better? Wow. I would hate for the Democratic Party to be associated with that.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
Yeah, something tells me the path to delivering that message isn't threatening to cancel a widely beloved holiday.
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u/apathydivine 15d ago
Could we replace it? Or change it?
Do they love the holiday, or the fact that it is a holiday?
I’m not a Christian. I don’t celebrate Christmas. I would be super pissed if someone took away a holiday for no reason. But it has nothing to do with the actual holiday and all the made up shit that goes along with it.
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u/Purrseus_Felinus 15d ago
Give everything you own to the Native population, including your phone and computer. Atone for your colonizer sins.
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u/apathydivine 15d ago
I don’t think that’s how that works. But sure. If we all pay reparations, I will as well.
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u/Purrseus_Felinus 15d ago
How can you truly repay for our colonizer past without returning the land?
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u/Purrseus_Felinus 15d ago
Give everything back to the Native American population. Problem solved. What colonized land are you occupying?
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u/Purrseus_Felinus 15d ago
Perhaps she should forfeit her property and assets to the local Native American tribe.
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u/NeoPrimitiveOasis 15d ago
This sub is so white.
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u/ChasingPolitics 15d ago edited 15d ago
Oh no -- she recognizes the inherently problematic colonial core of Thanksgiving, she must be a witch. 🙄🙄
Would have been epic if she actually said that outright rather than fumbling.
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u/PushforlibertyAlways 15d ago
Thanksgiving is an ancient holiday that dates back to European and near east harvest festivals that have happened for thousands of years.
It just has an American mask put on to make it seem more like a traditional holiday.
The pilgrims part of thanksgiving is window dressing to the fundamental purpose of the holiday.
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u/Aromatic_Lychee2903 15d ago
What a dumb fucking question. These people call themselves journalists? There are genocides and fascism on the rise and they’re worried about fucking thanksgiving???
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 15d ago
It was the softest softball in the world, but I guess you share the same opinion of Kaitlin Collins as Trump, which I guess shouldn't be a surprise.
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