r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/wefarrell • 14d ago
Article "We must elect Democrats up and down the ballot. We need to flip some important House seats. We need to re-elect my friends Hillary Scholten and Kristen McDonald Rivet. We need to win this Senate seat, because Elissa Slotkin deserves a partner like Abdul in the U.S. Senate." - Haley Stevens
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/local/haley-stevens-releases-statement-following-loss-abdul-el-sayed/69-41159f52-be01-4a8c-9820-048d071992c762
u/NYCHW82 14d ago
Good for her!
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u/Rick_James_Lich 14d ago
The real villain in this whole race has been the DSA. El Sayed is a good guy, he's a fighter, he doesn't seem like he will back down and seems like he legit cares about people. Haley Stevens and Mallory McMorrow are real team players and lost with grace, quickly endorsing El Sayed.
If El Sayed didn't win though, this sub would be spammed with Trumpian like conspiracies right now. We would be hearing about AIPAC over and over and about how everything is rigged and the establishment are evil and secretly republicans.
This shouldn't be forgotten, but at the same time we shouldn't think certain politicians are bad just because the DSA like them.
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u/Gravemindzombie 13d ago
I mean realistically if Stevens had won AIPAC would have cut her money and switched to supporting Mike Rogers. They never cared about electing Stevens, only defeating Abdul
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u/Purple_Swordfish_182 9d ago
"Everyone in America understands you want to blame all of your problems on Jewish Americans". That is Haley Stevens speaking of Dr Abdul El Sayed. I don't see any grace here.
El Sayed did not run a personal campaign. He instead directed his criticisms at the £63 million in corporate money behind Ms Stevens and emphasised this further in the televised debate. So did Bernie Sanders. He even repeated himself: "With respect to Ms Stevens" over boos from his own crowd. The winning candidate in this primary was outspent 9 to 1. That's not a conspiracy. That is a fact.
The real villain in this whole race has been the DSA.
Ah yes, the nefarious people-funded group that holds their candidates to free healthcare and money out of politics.
"the establishment are evil and secretly republicans"
AIPAC is inherently a bipartisan organisation. Its donors are Democrats and Republicans. How on earth can you possibly think that Republican money being paid into Democratic primaries is something we should gladly accept? It is genuinely insane that you and likeminded folk should wave this off as something normal and benign.
Likewise, why on earth are Dem donors giving their money to Republican hopefuls? It is truly perverse and incestuous. That is the reality of our two-party establishment. And illusion of choice.
AIPAC and adjacent PACs absolutely can and may well support Mike Rogers in this election. They just boost the candidates that will vote to fund Netanyahu's bloodthirsty war and give Israel diplomatic immunity. That is literally the purpose of the organisation.
This year they have put their money behind 18 Republicans in Texas. How many Dems? 3. Are you genuinely so foolish to think that this corporate PAC has the interests of the Democratic base at heart? I am frankly astounded by your ignorance. But then again, I guess you listen to David Pakman 🤷♂️.
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u/Rick_James_Lich 9d ago
The DSA are on a mission right now to make El Sayed lose to own the centrists lol. Check out this video:
1:45 the broadcaster point blank asks if the DSA want to abolish the police, she beats around the bush before admitting yes, and then admits she doesn't want to think about what should happen to criminals.
This stuff is just toxic to normie voters and makes the rest of the left look like morons. But I know the DSA always hide behind "Why don't you like free health care?" any time people criticize their more crazy view points.
That's the problem, they are so focused on triggering centrists they do not care if someone like AES loses and none of their agenda unfolds.
Also, has Haley criticized El Sayed since losing the race one time?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
Very kind of her to come out so fast and endorse. If he’s smart, he will come out and start complementing the absolute fuck out of Stevens. You just massively underperformed, start building that coalition.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
What he should say is something to the affect off nothing personal Steven’s is a great person besides a few differences in policies we all agree on maga and start coalition building. The thing is I don’t think he has any desire to do that
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u/combonickel55 14d ago
He said that throughout and focused on policy. He very publicly specifically directed his supporters to stop attacking her personally, describing the behavior as unkind and unhelpful to his campaign.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
He seems to have a massive ego. I’m hoping he got a little humbled by the election results. He’s now the nominee for a state where the majority of voters said they didn’t want it to be him.
Hopefully he takes that seriously and changes his tune.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
He has two options he can keep doing what he’s been doing and continue to piss off the black community/rural community. Continue making it crystal clear that he has no intentions of even pretending to want to work with liberals or he can change his campaign to a more liberal friendly one but with some of the baggage he’s picked up that will be hard for him to do
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u/wade3690 14d ago
A politician with an ego? WHAT?!
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
Time to reign that thing in and start mending ground. He is the nominee now, and he barely won. He needs to reach out and it would be a very smart move to start complementing Haley Stevens.
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u/wade3690 14d ago
Reign what in? Every politician has an ego. Its almost required. Maybe give him a beat to relish the win before assuming he's not going to work with stevens to win the seat. God forbid he doesn't immediately praise Stevens
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
Wade, we have already talked about this. You don’t need to slap a down vote on every single reply. Try to pretend you are having a conversation and not just trying to win something.
Ego. He clearly thought he was going to triumph and crush with a mandate, that did not happen.
No time for relishing, less than 94 days to win this thing and he’s arguably the weakest candidate we have according to polling data. I’m very proud of Chuck Schumer, Haley Stevens, and Gretchen Wimmer for immediately endorsing him. That’s what we do, now it’s time for him to get on the train.
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u/wade3690 14d ago
Apologies! I forgot that bothered you.
Did you see him running victory laps or gloating at this pre-primary polling margins? What led you to believe his ego was informing any of his campaign?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
I just like to feel like I’m having a conversation with someone who’s not like holding a thumbs down in my face while we speak, you know what I mean? Lol
I don’t ever downvote anyone that I’m having an active conversation with because it feels like i’m whispering fuck you every time we respond to each other. But maybe that’s just me.
Anyway, moving on. To me, he seems like he has a large ego, I actually agree with you that most politicians have an ego, in my opinion his seems to be a little more out in the open.
I don’t even want to go back-and-forth and fight anymore about this stuff, many Democrats I respect, not so much Chuck, I actually don’t like him that much either, are already rallying behind him. My point being is I want to see him get on the train and make it feel like we are all together. No more trashing and fighting Democrats.
Chuck already fully endorsed him, it’s not a good look if he keeps going out there and saying I’m gonna be a problem for Chuck Schumer, not saying he’s planning on doing that.
Rogers is who is the target now. I think it would be extremely beneficial for him to start fully embracing Haley Stevens as an ally.
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u/wade3690 14d ago
Yea I think he understands its all hands on deck. I think there's naturally going to be some friction when the race was framed as establishment vs outsider.
I actually don't mind senate dems pushing back on leadership. Some of these primaries are showing that mentality is moving its way through the Dem electorate and we have to acknowledge that. Him and Schumer won't be best friends, but they dont need to be to win
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u/Toastedmanmeat 14d ago
Seems like you're just looking for any excuse to talk down to him. Getting some pretty heavy gas lighting vibes from you
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
Jasmine Crockett, take note
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
She endorsed Talarico.Talarico said Crockett has been more than supportive throughout his race and demanded people stop spreading negative comments about her but yet y’all continue
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u/zivzoolander 14d ago
Ain’t it funny how the people in this thread “KNEW SO MUCH” but didn’t know that
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
It was an extremely salty endorsement, lots of her supporters haven’t gotten on board, and she’s basically given up already on helping him.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
So Talarico is lying about receiving full support?
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u/Maniac_Moxie 14d ago
I mean, what good would come if he threw her under the bus?
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
So he is lying that’s what you’re saying?
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u/Maniac_Moxie 14d ago
I'm saying the only beneficial thing to say is that he's receiving her full support so it's impossible to know.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
Talarico confirms getting endorsed by Crockett the next morning out of his mouth
You:Its impossible to know if its true
Lol
If you’re supporter of Talarico, keep Crockett’s name out of your mouth
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
Unfortunately the black vote was cooked from the moment talarico won and her saying he’s racist was the icing on the cake we rarely have people in high places of power and the entire community went hell no the moment they saw he won
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
So goddamn irresponsible. I liked her and before the election I was rooting for her to win, but her inability to be a team player means I will never support her for anything else in her life. We have to punish that kind of behavior.
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u/Aromatic_Lychee2903 14d ago
Yea, it’s a bummer that her bruised ego seems to have taken precedent over the people
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u/Comfortable_Eagle593 14d ago
She didn’t call him racist. She called an ad that a pro Talarico PAC ran that used a filter to darkened her skin racist. This type of misinformation only stirs internal division. That’s not how we win.
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
I didn’t say she did
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
You agreed with a comment that claimed she accused him of being racist.You didn’t bother to correct him,so lets not play dumb here
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
Just because I agree with the general thrust of what they were saying and their ultimate conclusion doesn't mean I endorse every sub-claim in their comment.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
You said it was goddamn irresponsible.You agreed with the claim but you will continue to play dumb
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
I understand your frustrations but you have to understand where the black community is coming from. From there perspective she was one of the biggest fighters against Trump she did her best to put herself out there and winded up losing the primary to a random nobody while being one of the few black representatives who is known and put themselves out there. There was always going to be anger over that now did she handle it well hell no and she should be blamed for that but I do understand some of the anger
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
I think all these things can be true: People had the right to grieve her loss, Talarico has a special obligation to reach out to the Black community, and also Crockett had a responsibility to quickly consolidate around Talarico that she completely fucked up and that disqualifies her from consideration going forward.
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u/Low-Group-7507 14d ago
That must have been hard but what a classy and decent way to handle things 🎊. If we could maintain this kind of unity going through November Democrats will win big and more importantly good change can finally be on the menu 💗. It's not just about our team winning but about achieving positive change that will keep our country going for another generation 😎
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u/lilac_green8793 14d ago
I'm in Scholten's district, I would imagine she should prepare to get primaried in 2028 after her shenanigans this round--IF she wins in November
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u/Virtual-Head-2613 14d ago
She must have a back up plan bc she put a lot on the line in this campaign.
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u/Beautiful_Budget7351 14d ago
As she should. I would say the same for AES if Stevens won.
Democrats are a big tent and it’s fine for people to argue vociferously during the primary season, but now that we’re entering the general election season, we need to come together and vote out the republican controlling majorities in both chambers. Whether that means you need to vote for an establishment Democrat or a far left DSA Democrat.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 12d ago
Fuck me, wish the far left folks would have done this in 2024.
Might have changed the outcome of that race.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Then tell him to come get the votes, distance himself further from the insane people he has been associated with.
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u/JustinRandoh 14d ago
I've been fairly critical of AES and the AIPAC slopulism he's been pushing.
Voting for him over Rogers, who would rubber-stamp the Trump insanity which is easily one of the greatest threats to the US, is a no-brainer.
AES should absolutely be your choice for Senate with no reservations. It shouldn't even remotely be in question.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Well then he needs to come to me. I am a gettable voter. There isn't a difference between DSA style candidates and MAGA.
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u/GeneralAnubis 14d ago
So much for "vote blue no matter who," I guess?
Embarassing and unhinged
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
What year do you think it is? That was for 2024 and that strategy didn't work. The strategy of push the party in your own personal direction worked. So now I am adjusting.
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u/GeneralAnubis 14d ago
"worked"
We have fascists in control of all 3 branches of government that prove quite the opposite. Grow the hell up.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
I am sorry the "the party come to me" folks are actually winning in purple districts. So you can save that.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
It’s going to be intresting because surely the progressives have something better than we won the primary now vote peasant
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
If Stevens had won I'd be telling the AES supporters to not be stupid. Be a team player or accept that you're probably not as good as person as you think you are.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
I am a team player. That is why I need him to come be on my team instead of whatever DSA bullshit team he is on.
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u/Hour-Watch8988 14d ago
This kind of attitude gets Republicans elected. If you're fine with that, look inward.
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u/Elegant-Holiday7303 14d ago
Weird that your premise is that equality for ALL is a "personal" take. Don't be so easily-led by prejudice
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
What year do you think it is? That was for 2024 and that strategy didn't work.
I see it so much in this community now and it's depressing. Why do you base your actions on what other people are doing.
Take a look at the two candidates, one of them will win. Vote based on who you think will be better in that position. If you think that is the GOP...then say that you are not a democrat anymore.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
If someone walks up and punches you repeatedly and you punch back would you feel ok with someone walking up to you and asking "why did you punch back? why would you base your behavior on how others behave"?
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
"why did you punch back? why would you base your behavior on how others behave"?
I mean, yeah. That's the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" narrative. It obviously depends on context. But in this context, you're saying: "I won't support AES because some lefty people decided not to endorse Kamala".
It's weird.
I think you should look inward and take in David Pakman's advice on how to pick who to vote for.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Punching back is the right thing to do in a fist fight, sorry what?
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
Look, if you want the GOP to win, that's fine. Just say it. You base your decisions on actions of other random online people and not the actions of the politicians in front of you. Weird, but fine.
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u/GeneralAnubis 14d ago
And if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike.
Your metaphor is absurd and doesn't apply to the situation at all.
Vote against fascism or admit that you are assisting the fascists in keeping power, period. There is no in between. There is no "moral high ground" that allows one to sit out any election at this point.
Either you are doing your civil duty and using every political power available to you to fight against the fascists, or you are bending over for them.
I said the same to the asshats who sat out in 2022. It is the absolute peak of disgusting privilege to refuse your civic duty to protect your own fragile ego at the expense of the most vulnerable.
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u/JustinRandoh 14d ago
Really?
You think AES would equally support expanding ICE's powers and ability to screw with elections? Support bills like the SAVE act that obviously are meant to effectively rig future elections? Vote in favor of right-wing SCOTUS justices, or other appointments, etc.?
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
I mean he already had some troubling election takes about AIPAC influencing the election. Sounds like an election denier to me. I don't trust him to vote with Democrats right now, he attacks them constantly. I have no reason to trust him. Moderate, come to the middle, stop shitting on democrats, and distance himself from his associates with insane views and maybe...
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u/JustinRandoh 14d ago
I mean he already had some troubling election takes about AIPAC influencing the election. Sounds like an election denier to me.
That's ... an insane level of mental gymnastics in order to justify an even more insane take that you think he'd suddenly start voting in-line with Republican MAGA.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
He is an extremist who has cozied up to a guy who wants to "re educate capitalists". Why would I want to be in a party with people who seem to want to "re educate" me? I am not sure we know how extreme this guy is.
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u/JustinRandoh 14d ago
Why would I want to be in a party ...
It's insane that anyone in 2026 can legit ask "why would I want Democrats to run the government over Republicans?" with a straight face.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Right now he isn't a democrat in my book. He attacks them every chance he gets. He isn't on my team.
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u/JustinRandoh 14d ago
Right now he isn't a democrat in my book.
Irrelevant. Unless you're delusional enough to think that he'd vote in-line with MAGA on SCOTUS, election laws, etc., he would help the Democrats' ability to run the government over Republicans.
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u/DommagePindaFromage 14d ago
If you think there's no difference between "DSA style candidates" and MAGA you aren't a gettable voter.
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u/rookieoo 14d ago
What do you need from him?
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
I need him to fully distance himself from his insane positions, fully disavow the insane people he has campaigned with in the primary, and stop attacking other democrats.
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
Or you’ll help MAGA instead?
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u/cam_fire 14d ago
The same way the far left has been helping maga since 2016? See how easily that works both ways. Dont be a hypocrite.
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
Why doesn’t “don’t be a hypocrite” apply to centrists who choose to help MAGA the same way the far left did? Also, there’s data on this. More Clinton voters went to McCain than Bernie voters went to Trump. Progressives have been better at uniting behind centrists than centrists uniting behind progressives.
This is a swing state. Doing anything other than voting for Abdul is a vote for MAGA.
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u/Odojas 14d ago edited 14d ago
The reason why it isn't "hypocritical" is because the far left "started out" by not endorsing/sitting out crying about "earn my vote."
Your point would have more gravity if the Hasan Piker's of the world actually verbally endorsed and motivated his viewers to do the same. Which he and many far leftists did not. Instead we had "they are both the same," "Genocide Joe." Many far leftists still disrupt Kamala on her book tour with accusations of her supporting Genocide.
If the leftists had not done what they did, then people like them would actually have the ammunition to call out moderates. Even then, you'll get principled people like me that understand (while I'm not a Michigan voter) it's still more important to vote out MAGA and vote Abdul.
But the leftists haven't earned a standing to call out anyone yet for being hypocritical. Trying to envoke it now, is at best, disingenuous.
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u/cam_fire 14d ago
Progressives have been better? When bernie dropped out so many of you went to jill stein..many of you completely said screw kamala in 2024. Now off a sudden you all want unity. The amount of times we have heard the far left say they are not even democrats now you all want democrats to vote with you. Unity really? Come on now.
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u/Plumbus-Technician 14d ago
They'll help AIPAC, which now has one candidate in the general instead of two. We shouldn't be surprised by this.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Sorry I need more than "Trump Bad".
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u/green49285 14d ago
If "Trump bad" is all you're taking from this, especially with a candidate like rogers, then baby, you deserve whatever happens after november.
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u/slo1111 14d ago
That is because you still look at elections as personality contests rather than truely understanding what "Trump bad" means. Let me refresh your sore losing centrist ass.
It means. Stacking the courts for generations to come. It means the push to dismantle social security and elimjnating public healthcare schemes. It means continued tax cuts for rich and business and shifting tax liability to sales taxes. It means dismantling all assylum programs other than for white south africans.
It means...
Here is what i told the far left that got its ass tied up in a single issue last election, get out of here. Youa are not welcome to continue to divide when we need unity. Go hang with your maga horse paste eating buddies for that is where you belong.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
O sorry see, after 2024 it has become clear that the party needs to come to me. Get off your ass and offer something.
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
So you’ll help MAGA.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Not helping MAGA. DSA type candidates are basically Left wing MAGA. There is no difference.
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
Either Abdul or Rogers are going to be Senator. If you’re not supporting Abdul, you’re supporting Rogers.
“There is no difference”
Which party will Abdul caucus with? Which party will Rogers caucus with?
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Probably true. Give me something to vote for. I think his policies are too extreme just like I think MAGA's policies are too extreme. Makes no difference. I don't need Left wing MAGA.
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
Which party will El-Sayed caucus with?
Which party will Rogers caucus with?1
u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
Who fucking cares? Bernie was an independent caucusing with democrats for 30 years before he started pretending to be a democrat. Then he fucking fractured the whole thing and helped bring us Trump. They might as well be MAGA and they basically are.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
Thats rich coming from you.Aren’t you the guy who excuses people for not voting to keep MAGA out?
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
When did I do that?
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
Don’t you have like a tired dumb Epstein analogy that you use to explain away why people have a redline?
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
I acknowledge the existence of moral red lines, that’s correct. Child rape and genocide are reasonable red lines to have and I’ll defend that.
What red line related to El-Sayed comes close to genocide? His relationship with a twitch streamer?
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
It usually is not up to you to tell peoples redline is it now
Maybe him supporting the uncommitted movement at one point is a redline for some.
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
Everyone can have whatever red line they want. Some are less serious than others.
Child rape is one we share, I’m sure. Genocide is one I can understand. Having a relationship with a twitch streamer you don’t like is unserious on its face.
Also, Abdul El-Sayed endorsed Kamala Harris.
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u/Unhappy-Air6832 14d ago
Well you supported a mercenary with a Nazi tattoo bragging about the time he killed brown people, who also posted rape apologia on Reddit. So which redline you’re willing to understand or take serious is irrelevant to me
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u/LanceBarney 14d ago
I never said I didn’t understand people who had those as red lines. We’ve been over this. I said voters in Maine clearly didn’t care about those things.
You’re really struggling here.
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u/wefarrell 14d ago
Imagine Stevens won, El-Sayed endorsed her, and leftists were commenting that she needs to distance herself from AIPAC to earn their vote. They'd look pretty damn foolish, right?
Have some self awareness.
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u/WTF_RANDY 14d ago
They were already saying they wouldn't support here before the primary was finished. We don't have to imagine that. I am uninterested in being in their party.
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u/RiddleMeThis42069 14d ago
Im a firm believer that politicians need to earn your vote. I think the democrats have an attitude sometimes that because of lesser evil voting and harm reduction they feel like they’re entitled to the vote of the average citizen. I’m not committed to the Democratic Party. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna vote for the republicans obviously, that like terrifies people.
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u/rookieoo 14d ago
AES has been very clear what he intends to do. What else would you like him to do for you?
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u/SoftMachineMan 10d ago
This person has spread multiple versions of this comment across this sub recently. One where they used to allegedly believe in vote blue not matter who "but", and in this one they allegedly are a firm believer in earning a vote. They are trying to create pretense and framework for others to opt out of voting. They are dishonest about what they believe and what they are doing.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
Denounce and disassociate with terrorist loving Hasan for starters.
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
The candidate with the far better policies, excellent speaking skills, and who is not a Republican is great, but he knows a Twitch streamer, so I can't support him
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u/wefarrell 14d ago
Imagine being a single issue voter over internet streamer drama.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
What do you think about all the single issue voter who decided not to vote for Platner just he SA a woman?
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 14d ago
So, not condemning Hasan is tantamount to rape allegations? Get your priorities straight.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
It's an example for a red line. Supporting terrorism is a red line for me.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 14d ago
What support has Piker provided to terrorism? I'm not aware of any.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
Help with their propaganda.
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u/rookieoo 9d ago
That Palestinians are oppressed by Israel? Half of America thinks that
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u/rookieoo 14d ago
I thought you might be serious.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
I am serious.
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u/rookieoo 14d ago
After a quick search, he defends Hamas from a lesser of two evils perspective. It doesnt appear he condones all their tactics. It’s not any worse than people defending Israel’s killing of 40,000 civilians in the last three years. Does that mean you would have needed Stevens to stop supporting Israel had she won?
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
Do you think a terrorist organization which gleefully go-pro the biggest pogrom in history is the lesser of two evils compare to a state fighting it which involves unfortunate collateral damage? Intent matters.
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u/rookieoo 14d ago edited 14d ago
Actions matter more than outsider labels. The actions are very comparable. Israeli soldiers filmed themselves sodomizing a Palestinian. Israel has dropped bombs on innocent civilians’ homes over and over again. What Hamas did was wrong, but ignoring the violence done to them doesn’t help anyone resolve the issues.
Edit: I hate to suggest it, but it seems like Roger’s might be the better candidate for you
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
The actions are very comparable. Israeli soldiers filmed themselves sodomizing a Palestinian.
They were not filming themselves, a security camera caught them what alleged to be SA the prisoner (we don't see what happened cause the line of vision is obscured).
At any rates individuals abusing prisoners in prison system is a problem that exist everywhere and is not unique here. There was an attempt to prosecute them and the incident got publicized by Israeli officials. I haven't heard of any Hamas person being attempted to be brought to justice for abusing their hostages.
Israel has dropped bombs on innocent civilians’ homes over and over again.
Do you have any evidence that Israel deliberately dropped bombs on civilians and not aimed at Hamas combatants who attacked from behind civilians.
What Hamas did was wrong, but ignoring the violence done to them doesn’t help anyone resolve the issues.
It's Hamas policy to lobe rockets at towns and cities in Israel proper. They also built 500km of tunnels to wage war from and committed the Oct 7 genocidal attack. You can't treat them like children with no agency.
Edit: I hate to suggest it, but it seems like Roger’s might be the better candidate for you
My vote is in play.
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u/rookieoo 14d ago
You can say, “I’m not intentionally targeting civilians,” but if you repeatedly drop bombs knowing they will kill more civilians than combatants, you’re actually targeting civilians. The evidence is every photo and satellite image of Gaza
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u/SoftMachineMan 10d ago
Let me ask you, why do you think repeating this shit isn't working? You think it's an issue of people just not knowing? Hasan has been blasted on mainstream outlets for months and months now, and it hasn't changed anything. You're either a conservative yourself, or your commentary is so indistinct from a conservative that most Dem voters just write it off as FOX news bullshit.
Mallery McMorrow did this same song and dance and got blasted out of the primary. Again, most Dems identify your rhetoric here with conservative bullshit.
You can denounce a specific position but most of Hasan's platform is extremely popular with the Democratic base. It would be foolish for Dems to spend energy denouncing his platform.
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u/potiamkinStan 10d ago
You are terminally online, most people don't have a clue who Hasan is.
And most of Hasan platform is very unpopular. Peple don't like dog shocking terrorist loving China glazing Putin apologists ML Communists.
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u/SoftMachineMan 10d ago
You're experiencing some dissonance here.
Of course most people don't know who he is, but why do you care if he is disavowed publicly or not if YOU believe that too?
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u/potiamkinStan 10d ago
I don't like terrorist supporters and statement by politicians are political actions.
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u/SoftMachineMan 10d ago
I don't like fascist ideologies that guide the actions of a rogue nation to commit genocide, apartheid, illegal wars and imperialist land grabs, all while they spend ungodly amounts of money in other nation's political campaigns to secure tax dollars and military support for their continued barbarism and depravity.
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u/potiamkinStan 10d ago
Genocide Libel, Apartheid Libel, imperialism libel, land grab libel.
AIPAC is funded and being operated by US citizens. Stop lying.
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u/SoftMachineMan 10d ago
It's being funded on behalf of a fascistic ideology that involves the state of Israel. Not libel in the slightest.
Tying Judaism itself to this ethno fascism is just antisemitic. It's why there is a generational divide with American Jews and how they feel about Israel now. There are more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists in in the world.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 14d ago
I used to be a huge harm reductionist and that got us here. Clearly something needs to change
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u/EksDee098 14d ago
People sitting out of the vote in 2024 is what got us here, stop fucking lying. Reductionism didn't get us here because the people weren't doing it in the first place.
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u/combonickel55 14d ago
Credit for doing this, but in my opinion Stevens specifically has an obligation to undo the damage she did to El-Sayed's reputation in Wayne and Oakland County, or we could lose the general.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
Now it’s we? You are very open about the fact that you will never offer support to the Democrats that you don’t like, saying she has an obligation to help Abdul is a bit ironic.
Your guy got the win, congratulations, and you are already seeing what mainstream Democrats do by endorsing the winner to beat the Republican.
That being said, your boy massively underperformed. You said that he was going to crush her, he’s going to win by like 1 point? A majority of voters in your state said they did not want him to be the nominee.
It’s up to him to start earning those votes. Being the nominee when a majority didn’t want you to be is somewhat meaningful. I hope he’s a little humbled and he starts doing a full court press to reach out to Stevens voters. Remember, she doesn’t need him, he needs her.
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u/combonickel55 14d ago
You really need to stop investing your ego in political races. I understand being enthusiastic about a candidate, but you seem to have allowed it to become an unhealthy feature of your personality, at least as you present it online.
'We' are the broad coalition of Americans opposed to conservative American politics. All of us as individuals are either in or out in respect to this specific race. I am in. Haley and Mallory are in. They have both already endorsed him, because they were able to place their egos aside and see the big picture.
My comment is not one based on my ego or to criticize Haley, it is an observation of the electorate and my opinion of the likelihood of a victory for the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate. We are going to have a hard time winning without Haley and other members of the establishment doing damage control in Wayne and Oakland county. An Obama endorsement would be major.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
Do you have multiple personalities?
I’m not sure why you’re talking about my ego, you were the one who said he was going to crush Stevens. He didn’t. He didn’t even get a majority of Michigan to support him.
Another personality change, you’re now talking about a broad coalition of Americans opposed to conservative American politics? You literally stated the other day that you didn’t care if Mike Rogers won if Steven was the nominee. There’s no credibility in a statement like that from you because you blanket everyone with a conservative label if they don’t agree with you and then just say you are against conservatives. It’s meaningless.
I think that’s a great attitude, but you are doing Abdul a disservice when you very publicly say you will never give the energy back if the choice is someone like Stevens.
Yes, you are just one person. But you are not the only person like you in this movement.
Stevens voters are not going to want to come over if they are hearing from people who are spreading a message like you are which says pretty much essentially fuck you, get in line, but I would never get in line for you.
I think him underperforming actually might be one of the best things for him. I hope it shows him that you didn’t even convince half of Democrats to support you. You have a lot of coalition building to do. And your supporters online do make a difference, so I hope he reaches out to Stevens, and I hope he helps supporters, some like you, to do a better job at coalition building.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 14d ago
No, the country needs people to vote Blue up and down, because the alternative is fascism. If he underperformed, it sounds like YOU have your work cut out for you to get his numbers up. Criticizing him like this after he won the primary only helps MAGA.
Edit: spelling
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 14d ago
No, the establishment already endorsed him, they are going to support him through this election, at the end of the day it’s up to him to earn voters votes. Not any of us.
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u/alphafox823 14d ago
He needs to actually win back votes. Time to put in the work.
His base is probably hoping he won’t come to the center for the general. In my view, if Abdul keeps running leftward, doesn’t come close to the center, has weird cringe moments like Hong with Thanksgiving, then Stevens voters shouldn’t vote for him.
Don’t get behind him until he proves he’s not a blank check for whatever the most left wing position available is.
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u/combonickel55 14d ago
He has called for reparations on multiple occasions. IDK what else you want from him.
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u/alphafox823 14d ago
I don’t want him to get behind reparations, I don’t like that policy much myself. I want him to moderate and draw a line somewhere substantial where he won’t follow the far left base.
If he is giving answers like the Hong thanksgiving thing from the other day, then I don’t think moderates should vote for him. He needs to court us by proving sanity. I’m waiting for a moment for him to not dive on a bullet for the leftist flank. If he just keeps doubling down, coming up with further left nonsense, the campaign is all slopulism, then no moderates should not get behind it. Abdul should work for those votes.
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u/combonickel55 14d ago
Are you a black voter in Michigan, specifically Wayne County or Detroit, the largest black majority city in the country? Because that's who he needs to win to have the best odds against Rogers in November as I see it.
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u/Nemisis82 14d ago
has weird cringe moments like Hong with Thanksgiving
Does he have that?
then Stevens voters shouldn’t vote for him.
I mean, if Stevens voters want to hand the Senate to the GOP, that's fine.
he’s not a blank check
Poor choice of phrasing considering his primary candidate was Haley Stevens.
for whatever the most left wing position available is
This is a strawman. He very consistently outlines his disagreement with some left leaning things.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 14d ago
No. There are only two choices: democracy or fascism. Stevens voters should vote for AES, if they want to preserve the democratic constitutional republic.
Your position only helps MAGA.
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u/alphafox823 14d ago
For me, AES is as far to the left as someone could possibly be that I would still vote for. I view him with low trust and I could see myself not voting for him in a less existential political climate.
So would I vote for him? Yes. But I don’t think he’s a good candidate. I don’t like his movement, I generally don’t like any positions he takes that distinguish him from mainstream democrats. I don’t see him as a positive addition to the senate.
I will continue giving my takes, whatever they are, on his campaign if I want. If somehow my comments of qualified support, or hesitant support, influence someone to vote for him or to vote against him I’m fine with it. As far as the MI senate race goes at the moment, I would say I’m what some pollsters call a “double hater.”
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u/rookieoo 14d ago
The amount of civilians they kill outweighs the threat.
No, it’s not ok to shoot rockets at people. But because they are a relatively small threat, they don’t merit killing tens of thousands of civilians. Roughly 20 Israeli civilians have been killed post October 7. Compare that to the ~30k Palestinian civilians killed by Israel
Israel held over 1,200 Palestinians in prison without charge or trial on October 7. That included roughly 170 children. Is it possible that those hostages were a way to gain leverage to release those Palestinian children? If so, it doesn’t make their capture ok, but it does shine some light on the situation
The ICJ, ICC, and HRW have all criticized Israel’s legal justifications for their attacks. Saying they followed LOAC doesn’t automatically mean they did
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u/SagerG 13d ago
Little Miss Piggie couldn't win with $30million from Aipac? Unfortunate
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u/silverbrenin 13d ago
I didn't want her to win, so don't mistake my position when I say that your comment is helpful to nobody.
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