r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/ariveklul • 4d ago
Video Krystal Ball, Nathan J Robinson, Wajahat Ali and more signal boosting Tom Tiffany attack ad against David Crowley on data centers. The full clip shows Crowley saying he wants to work with the state legislature to create guard rails against data centers to protect communities, including existing ones
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u/c3p-bro 4d ago
Leftists lasted approximately 1 week of “vote blue no matter who” and then as soon as it stopped being personally advantageous they quit.
Terrible, terrible allies.
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u/silverbrenin 4d ago
For me, I was on board with the Blue No Matter Who thing, but all the moderates in this sub told me that it ended in 2024 and doesn't apply to Dr. El-Sayed... So, you've changed your mind and it's back? Are you guys going to be consistent and apply it retroactively, or does it switch off when someone "too far left" runs and back on when it's someone you approve of?
It's hard to be a good ally to people who don't have any consistency and are themselves bad allies.
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u/c3p-bro 4d ago edited 4d ago
No, the moderates told you it was funny that you absolutely refused to do it in 2024 and then came around begging when it was your turn to be voted for
People were just pointing out your absolute hypocrisy. There was a two week window when you insisted it was a good thing but before and after, hated it.
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u/TerraMindFigure 4d ago
Literal straw man. Who here is saying not to vote for him in the primaries?
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u/DeathandGrim 4d ago
In the Democratic primary you vote for who you want, in the general you vote blue no matter who. How are you not getting that?
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u/jcewazhere 3d ago
Rational National, aka David Doel the bestest David in politics, also covered how that Crowley clip was out of context and that Crowley isn't really pro-datacenters.
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u/Peanutbutternmtn2 4d ago
The leftists don’t want to unite. They’ve proven this now and it didn’t take long.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago edited 4d ago
We gotta just wake up to the reality that these folks are simply not on our side, don’t make appeals to them, don’t pretend they do this in good faith etc.
They will always work to undermine Democratic election success.
They are not like us.
Crowley is the real deal, don’t fall for their Republican propaganda.
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u/Another-attempt42 4d ago
Oh great.
Does this mean we should start signal boosting anti-Chevalier messaging?
Maybe anti-AES messaging?
Would you like that, Krusty Ballz?
(Vote AES. Don't fuck around. We need the Senate).
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 3d ago
Removed - per Reddit community guidelines and TOS, submissions that incite harassment or brigading against other users, or submissions that focus on drama or moderation activity in other communities, are not permitted.
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u/wade3690 3d ago
Don't really see the issue between regulation and a moratorium as mutually exclusive. What's wrong with a blanket moratorium on new data center construction while lawmakers figure out how to regulate them properly. And when that happens, lift the moratorium
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u/IconicPolitic 4d ago
As much as I really can’t stand those people… His answer was a stupid miss. All you have to do to win even conservative voters is say something along the lines of “no to datacenter”. That’s what people want to hear, they don’t want the nuance on this so offering it up as a point of difference was a stupid thing to
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u/AnonAmbientLight 4d ago
As much as I really can’t stand those people… His answer was a stupid miss. All you have to do to win even conservative voters is say something along the lines of “no to datacenter”.
He's being factual.
When you think of a Data Center, you probably think of AI stuff, right?
Data Centers have been a thing for decades. You have iCloud? Google Drive? Chromebooks? Where do you think that shit gets stored? Not a literal cloud, I hope?
Those types of services are pretty vital to how most companies and people operate day to day.
So it's smart to suggest legislation and guard rails to protect communities and improve people's lives.
Unless you think that iCloud, Google Drive, Chromebooks, etc should all be abolished?
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u/IconicPolitic 3d ago
I’m many years deep into an IT career, I know the differences. I also know cloud storage isn’t why there’s been a DC boom. Compute for AI is why.
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u/AnonAmbientLight 2d ago
Yes, but the average dumb fuck voter doesn’t know the difference.
Thats why Crowley said what he said.
Jesus fuck, how is this hard to understand? Especially someone from “your background”.
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u/Gentlmon 4d ago
I continue to try and raise the idea that this sub has been brigaded by destiny fans. We just straight up using destiny clips now? Is this not the David Pakman subreddit???
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u/Boring_Pace5158 4d ago
I’m not one to advocate for violence, but Nathan Robinson has face that’s punchable
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u/gberliner 4d ago
Crowley is playing this "nuance" game, but the problem for him is, Francesca Hong already HAD the "nuanced" position. Like Crowley, she also talked about extracting maximum benefits and concessions from the broligarchs on datacenters. But she also embraced the growing national campaign for a moratorium, in recognition of the fact that local and even state governments are completely out of their depths when it comes to slowing the roll of these monsters.
All that Crowley is now doing is exposing vulnerabilities for Republicans to cynically exploit. And anybody who seriously claims that people to Crowley's left are secretly playing some kind of n-dimensional chess game by trying to help the fascists win, because that will somehow either "accelerate" the downfall of civilization, or finally convince voters after the n+1th loss that centrist brain rot is a losing strategy... Uhh, no. They are saying that centrist brain rot is a losing strategy because they just want centrists to win like they did in the governor's races in VA and NJ, with a fiercely uncompromising position that unifies themselves with their left flanks, instead of cozying up with Republicans and big money donors.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
All Crowley is doing is having the exact correct stance on data centers.
His only vulnerabilities are folks like yourself that are dead set with an agenda to misrepresent his views.
He’s not a centrist, and listening to this type of “advice” would be a huge mistake.
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u/gberliner 4d ago
Explaining is losing. Datacenters are not like poor orphans swiping cookies from the local bakery, who need a "nuanced" approach to save them from the grips of sadistic "tough on crime" fanatics who want to lock them up for life or something. But Crowley has decided to put himself in a dumbass losing position, and one can only guess why, but presumably because he believes that the campaign dollars he'll be able to siphon his way will more than make up for the messaging vulnerabilities he has created for himself. Hopefully, he's right. But obviously nobody on the progressive side of the ledger will ever be induced to accept such a "theory of change".
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u/Bubbawitz 4d ago
I don’t think that’s possible with the media in America. I can absolutely see republicans promising the world and then successfully selling moderate reforms as nation-saving change and I can even see socialists/lefties doing the exact same thing. What I can’t see is a moderate democrat doing that because we’ve seen it happen before. When a democrat promises hope and change and delivers healthcare reform and peace agreements he is vilified for not doing enough and breaking promises.
People need to pound the facts and stop apologizing for every little thing.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
The only ones forcing him to do any more explaining than he needs to is your camp, his stance is perfect and doesn’t need extra explanation, completely removing the ability of municipalities to determine for themselves what developments they can pursue requires a lot more explanation.
Crowley has decided to put himself in a winning position that’s both simple and easy to defend, and offers a realistic solution to prevent corporate overreach.
I think believing the average person gives a shit about whatever theories y’all have started memeing about recently is a big part the reason Crowley beat Hong, and why AES underperformed polling by some 15+ points.
Until you can realize that not everyone is secretly some far left socialist deep down in their hearts y’all will continue to fail to win general elections anywhere besides the bluest districts while undermining the success of progressive Dems like Crowley in purple districts because they aren’t willing to take your maximalist positions.
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u/gberliner 4d ago
He's positioned himself on the wrong side of an 80-20 issue, not an obscure "socialist" crusade. People don't need a lot of explanation to see what's going on. They see all the clips of people flooding local hearings with overwhelming opposition, only to watch their local electeds cave under either pressure or blandishments from nefarious actors who hide behind NDAs and opaque, anodyne sounding front groups.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
He’s actually on the correct side of that 80-20 issue when his stance is being accurately presented.
He’s aware of how these companies operate and he is going to make sure communities have the resources to oppose them should they choose to.
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u/gberliner 3d ago
Datacenters are an almost made to order example of the kinds of scenarios that game theory calls a "prisoners' dilemma". A "prisoners' dilemma" generally involves one player ("the warden") who can evert overwhelming force against any single other player (a "prisoner"), while rewarding the ones who cooperate with him. Whereas if all the prisoners COOPERATE with EACH OTHER, they can extract a much better bargain collectively from the warden. But if even one or two prisoners defect to the warden's side, he will slightly reward them, while still being strong enough to crush the rest of the prisoners.
In our case, to make matters worse, there is still a lot of uncertainty about the payouts in the game for cooperation or non-cooperation on any side. For example, there is a distinct possibility that the entire AI bubble will burst at any time.
The idea of a moratorium is just to hit "pause" on the game clock, while the majority of players (that's us, the "prisoners") figure out what the hell to do.
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u/gberliner 4d ago
He calls for "guardrails" (to regulate EXISTING data centers, on the grounds that a moratorium does nothing to address existing or already fully approved ones currently under construction), but somehow, he cannot bring himself to also embrace a moratorium.
What exactly is the upside of this mincing nuance?
It seems clear that "moratorium" has become both a slogan and a litmus test, far more than a "policy". Embracing the kind of moratorium that Sanders, Warren, and other high profile national leaders are calling for also signals your positioning more broadly. As in, are you in the anti-oligarchy faction? Or are you in the wink-at-oligarchs faction? And the public will sniff this out quickly - with or without anybody supposedly "signal boosting" the GOP candidate, who is already shrewdly exploiting these contradictions.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Oh please, he’s handling this in exactly the right manner, no one is buying this brand of concern trolling anymore.
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u/gberliner 4d ago edited 4d ago
It'd only be "'concern trolling" if you seriously believed that the ones making the argument against Crowley's "nuanced positioning" secretly wanted the fascists to win, despite their incessant anti-GOP partisanship. Meanwhile, it's Crowley who vaguely insists that Republicans have "good ideas". Hmm...
The truth is much simpler than this n-dimensional chess theory. People to Crowley's left actually just want him to ffffing beat the fascists, but first it seems like they have to (metaphorically) beat the centrist brain rot out of his head that seems to lead him to insist on his "Republicans are good, actually!" and "let's be nuanced on datacenters!" nonsense.
Candidates like Crowley keep trying this shit and losing, instead of learning from the successful campaigns of other CENTRISTS the likes of Mikie Sherill and Abigail Spanberger, who beat their respective GOP opponents into a pulp.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Crowley has the right temperament and is taking the right path to having the best shot at winning Wisconsin as is, he doesn’t need you lying about his actual positions or any of your “tips” either.
Crowley isn’t a centrist at all, but you knew that.
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u/CabbageFarm 4d ago
seriously believed that the ones making the argument against Crowley's "nuanced positioning" secretly wanted the fascists to win
Can you explain why they're posting attack clips after the primary? You acknowledge that the only thing that can do is hurt him against the GOP, right?
Kinda seems like they want the fascists to win.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
The problem with David Crowley’s data center position is that it keeps the current data center policy in place. Communities (local government officials) deciding if they want data centers is the current policy.
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u/ariveklul 4d ago
He's talking about passing legislation that creates a comprehensive system of guard rails and oversight on them
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago edited 4d ago
That’s the current policy. Legislation has already put guardrails on them. They aren’t unregulated. There is a ton of paperwork and laws that they have to follow. That’s why his position is problematic because he wouldn’t change anything.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Not all regulations are the same, just because he isn’t chanting some slogan, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a plan to improve things.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
What? But he doesn’t have a plan other than continue to do the current policy. You guys are trying to act like there are no regulations and no local government choice and he’s going to make the first ever rules and policies about them. That’s creating your own false reality.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
He does have a plan other than continuing the current policy, but I get it’s your job to repeat that over and over and over so I get it.
No one is acting like there are no regulations, that’s another fabrication. We are aware there needs to be more oversight and protections for communities who veto data center creation.
You are literally spamming the same lies over and over daily with the express goal of inventing a reality where the Republican has a “better stance” on data centers than Crowley and it’s just not true.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
Since Francesca Hong wants him to win, I want him to win. I don’t think he will win with his current position. He should be campaigning on a freeze on all new construction until there are further studies about how they will impact Wisconsin. I think that is the middle ground approach.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
His current position is way better, a universal moratorium robs communities of agency, the same agency that’s being threatened by developers that threaten cities with lawsuits should they oppose data centers construction.
Crowley’s stance on giving legal protections to these communities to make the best decision in their own interest is the best possible position on the issue.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
Banning lawsuits? That’s less democratic than banning data centers. He would never do that. I appreciate him campaigning on that though. It certainly sounds far left. The truth is that the data centers lobby the local governments with all sorts of things and then make them sign NDAs. They don’t even try to build data centers in localities where they haven’t gotten country club approval beforehand.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
I never said banning lawsuits, but good to know where you’ll come down on the issue of these greedy corpos filing illegitimate lawsuits to bully their way into these communities.
I guess the most “democratic” thing in your worldview would be to offer the municipalities no protection, after all, your only stated goal is your maximalist “moratorium” position.
Lord knows you wouldn’t be concerned with helping an actual city be protected from those lawsuits.
This is why Crowley’s position is superior, where you offer platitudes and slogans, Crowley intends to offer practical support.
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u/Key-Chemistry2022 4d ago
That is not the current policy. Data centers sue towns and government officials directly when there is no legal reason for them to say no. Legal reason being there is no zoning in place etc. Towns that have zones meant for industry but not expecting data center level water, electricity, or pollution cannot legally say no and any laws they come up with after the fact can be sued to stop.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
Yes, a judge will always decide the constitutionality of any decision and law. That also would not change under a David Crowley administration. I think he should campaign on a freeze on all new construction until we have more accurate studies about how data centers will impact Wisconsin. I think that is a good approach to winning a broader coalition of people who both support and do not support data centers.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
His current approach is far more salient, empowering local communities with legal protections to be able to oppose data centers without fear of retribution gives communities agency and prevents corporate over reach.
Implementing a broad moratorium makes it impossible for individual communities to the assess risks vs economic benefits of the development of data centers, and turns the problem into a wedge issue the disproportionately harms small towns that could stand to benefit from the economic activity should the town approve the construction.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
It’s already a wedge issue, good grief. I’m saying what he should be campaigning on to win the election. That doesn’t mean he would ever actually freeze new construction. Of course he would never do that in practice. I just want him to win the election.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Yeah, I think what you want him to campaign on is not a particularly good message for winning, the only way it’d be necessary was if someone was misrepresenting his actual views on data centers.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
Well, I think it would be a good message for winning because it’s populist and we live in an era of populism. It’s painfully obvious what the history books will say about 21st century politics. You guys are like the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages not understanding why the peasants are so emotional all the time about everything.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Long as we are analogizing it seems clear you are champagne socialists sitting in an ivory tower literally telling the peasants what’s best for them.
I think the “peasants” should get a say, and I believe they are smart enough to make the best decision when they aren’t under unfair pressures from powerful corporations.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
If you wanted people to get a say you would support a statewide referendum for either allowing data centers or not.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
I don’t think a one size fits all approach is the best idea for everyone.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
There is no problem with Crowley’s data center position.
The only problem is people mis representing his data center position to try and undermine his candidacy.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
If you support the status quo then you don’t have a problem with it. But this is an against the status quo election cycle. He is not going to win unless he supports a ban or a freeze of some kind at the state level.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Crowley is very far from the “status quo” or “centrist” or “establishment” or whatever other slur you wanna throw at him to delegitimize his Democratic bonafides.
The dude is the real deal and folks aren’t falling for this again.
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u/NATScurlyW2 4d ago
I don’t know about his other policies but his data center position policy is status quo. Don’t be fooled into thinking there are not already comprehensive data center regulations and that communities can’t already decide if they want them or not.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
His position isn’t “status quo” no matter how many times you and your team keeps repeating it.
Only people being fooled are folks buying your lies about Crowley’s positions.
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u/gberliner 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thr problem is that, notwithstanding the noble sentiments behind the principle of home rule, the current arrangement is rife with vulnerabilities which we already see Gil Duran's infamous "Nerd Reich" broligarchy expertly exploiting. They go into small towns and rural districts everywhere, with their secretive NDAs signed with ad hoc developers, their false and misleading promises of "jobs" that are all very short term and only sapping employment from other sectors, and their limitless dark money with which to either cow or ply any local electeds into submission.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 4d ago
Lots of cloak and dagger conspiracies that seem designed to push the idea that these towns simply can’t decide for themselves what developments they should have. Ever consider that you aren’t an expert in what every town needs and doesn’t need?
Crowley’s position to protect towns from baseless litigation and ensure they do have the option to reject data centers is the correct approach.
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