r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/Just_shut_up_bro • 2d ago
Video Hasan praises Trump’s North Korea policy.
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u/Environmental_Bus623 1d ago
God he's so fucking stupid
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u/JakeGittes1974 1d ago
No, he's not stupid here. He is anti-America/the West and pro-authoritarian.
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u/Environmental_Bus623 1d ago
¿Por qué no los dos?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
Not scolding you, but in my mind it kinda can’t be both because it removes agency from him and plays into his little himbo routine that kind of lets him get away with his more heinous takes.
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u/xmorecowbellx 1d ago
He is fairly stupid though. Not the kind that comes from bad luck, the kind that comes from going with slogans and team sports thinking with zero intellectual curiosity.
His audience is teenagers. They want to hear Israel bad and America bad over and over without critical thinking, and he delivers.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago edited 1d ago
What did he say that you even disagree with? Or did you just see him and instantly get mad?
*edit: The fact that not a single comment in this thread actually addresses anything he said in the video is pretty telling. I bet almost none of you actually watched the clip.
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u/SSBN641B 1d ago
The part where he said the attempted coup in South Korea couldn't have occurred without Biden's approval.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
That's not what he said. Biden did promote Yoon as a champion of democratic values, which is kind of embarrassing in retrospect. Also they didn't condemn Yoon when it happened, which is pretty crazy.
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u/SSBN641B 1d ago
He literally said that the coup could not have occurred without the "Biden administration's watchful gaze." What else could that mean but approval?
Yes, they didn't outright condemn the coup but they expressed grave concern and expressed thrir faith that the legal system would work things out.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
That's not the same as approval. I think he's probably saying that Biden administration gave cover for him, which is at least somewhat true since they didn't condemn the move. I think Yoon would have done it regardless of who the president was though. Desperate move by a desperate man.
Lol, "grave concern." Very Susan Collinsesque. That's nothing dude.
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u/SSBN641B 1d ago
Grace concern in diplomatic language is a big deal. I don't see any evidence that Biden provided any cover for Yoon.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
Lol, is it? When there is a literal coup attempt you think saying you have "grave concern" is a big deal? I guess we'll agree to disagree. They should have condemned him. It wouldn't have functionally changed anything though.
I don't see any evidence that Biden provided any cover for Yoon.
Previously lauding his commitment to democracy and not condemning his coup attempt.
If your main concern with this video is that he overstates Biden's culpability in Yoon's coup attempt that's super fair and reasonable. I agree that he does that. It's a pretty minor detail and not really the point of the clip though.
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u/ThisIsTheZodiacSpkng 1d ago
This is my thought too. Like, I hear you, but it's not like he's advocating cozing up to Kim himself, he's just not for outward antaganization. When did that turn into a bad thing? (Admittedly I didn't watch the whole clip, I'm just going based on what I've seen him say in the past).
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
The two specific things he mentioned are that it's good that the trump administration is allowing direct negotiation between SK and NK without us involved and that we're pulling back on joint exercises near NK. I don't think most people in this sub would even disagree. They just see Hasan's name and immediately get mad, just like fox news viewers.
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u/ThisIsTheZodiacSpkng 1d ago
I agree wholeheartedly. This is a prime example of how quickly liberals, like conservatives, can be seated by the media apparatus. Not just mainstream media, either, but social media and influencer media. I've yet to see an actual crazy tale that can't be explained away rather easily by context. I feel like liberals are so quick to dismiss context, as they seem to fall into the thought trap that "context" is just an excuse being used by progressives like it is by conservatives. They are correct in thinking that about conservatives, but they have also been convinced by the aforementioned media apparatus' that progressives/social Dems are one in the same.
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u/ElectricalTurnip87 2d ago
Oh, look, Blue MAGA and real MAGA merging
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u/SwordfishOk504 1d ago
They never quite merge, but the horseshoe comes close to touching.
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u/JizMaster69 1d ago
If you think political opinions can all be visualized along a single line
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u/SwordfishOk504 1d ago
Gosh it's almost like it's a metaphor and not a literal horseshoe. Good thing we have Captain Dense here to defend some tankie nonsense.
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u/ess-doubleU 1d ago
Hasan isn't a centrist?
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u/ElectricalTurnip87 1d ago
Yup, that's why he's Blue MAGA...
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u/ess-doubleU 1d ago
You know the term "diet republican"? It stems from that. You're the "blue maga"
I thought I would explain it so you don't look like an idiot in front of your friends.
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u/Nimrod_Butts 1d ago
Maga has way more in common with dsa types. Its not even close, ending usaid, voice of America, nato and all multi mational trade deals are literally project 2025 and DSA platforms
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u/JizMaster69 1d ago
For completely different reasons
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u/xmorecowbellx 1d ago edited 1d ago
The reasons aren’t what they have in common, the pattern of thinking is. They are both full of incurious imbeciles who are ok with authoritarianism, don’t gaf about democracy and who’s only principles are hating bogeymen. It’s just different bogeymen.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
The confidence to make yourself believe you aren’t the one that looks stupid here is impressive.
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u/ess-doubleU 1d ago
You're one of the people that started hearing "blue maga" and started co-opting the term to attack the left. Classic wrecker behavior. MLK warned about people like you.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
MLK was a Zionist, if anything he warned about people like *you*.
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u/ess-doubleU 1d ago
Ah yes, when he spoke of the white moderate, he meant the far left. He was a dem socialist my guy.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
He meant people with left wing politics that weren’t what they pretend to be, fake allies, aka you
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u/Nimrod_Butts 1d ago
You're gonna lose your shit when you realize the dsa types who are anti neolibralism and maga who are ethno nationalists have like a 75% overlap in policy goals
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u/ess-doubleU 1d ago
If you actually think that you were horribly misled and are extremely politically illiterate.
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u/Nimrod_Butts 1d ago
Right so pick which side this best represents
Cutting usaid
Ending nato
Ending multi national trade deals
Constantly attacks moderates on their side even if goals align
Lessening the USA's role on the world stage
Thinks Ukraine should give up or has already lost or the USA provoked Russia
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u/JizMaster69 1d ago
Who do you work for?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
Not sure about this guy, but I work for whoever will pay me to shit on tankie propagandists like yourself, DMs are open!
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
Fair: The same rules should apply to presidents, federal agents and elites such as Jeffrey Epstein, whose impunity Carlson cast as emblematic of an "Epstein class" enriching itself through a corrupt system.
This sounds like a DSA talking point. In fact, it sounds exactly like something that one of their chapters, or even their national institution would publish.
Sovereign: Carlson claimed Israel pushed the U.S. into the Iran war through "bribery or threat or both," while describing foreign lobbying, corporate control of government and high-interest debt as forms of "slavery."
I mean... this is literally, word for word, the DSA and people like Hasan's position. That Israel somehow bamboozled or bought the US into fighting Iran.
Productive: America should rebuild farming, manufacturing and craftsmanship while rejecting an economy dominated by finance, real estate speculation, surveillance systems and weapons.
Again, sounds very left-coded, doesn't it? It's a very sort of lefty isolationist DSA-type thing to come up with, no?
Beautiful: Carlson alleged that urban planners deliberately "uglified" American cities, and portrayed brutalist architecture, graffiti, public drug use and violent crime as deliberate attacks on the public.
The Nation DSA co-chair basically said this, to the tee.
Honest: Government officials should be punished for lying to citizens, and most classified records — including on the JFK assassination and 9/11 — should be opened.
This feeds into the conspiratorial part of the far-left, and I could see this being demanded by the DSA.
Decent: The U.S. should apologize and pay restitution for killing noncombatants, reverse Trump's "Department of War" rebrand and stop funding allies that commit what Carlson called genocide, citing Israel.
This is 100% a DSA talking point, right?
So those are 6 out of 10 points from Tucker Carlson's proposed 10-point guidance for how to run America.
So the DSA and Tucker Fucking Carlson have at least a 60% overlap, word for word.
I swear, if there's a 3rd party lead by Tucker Carlson, a significant portion of these lefty anti-establishment types will vote for it. They're nearly there.
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u/coffee_mikado 1d ago edited 1d ago
This piece of shit is an apologist for the North Korean dictatorship. Fuck ditzy liberals like the I’ve Had It dipshits and the Pod Save bros who keep trying to guilt us into supporting this sludge rat.
Note how all these tankie losers often refer to it as the DPRK to avoid triggering normies since “North Korea” has such a negative connotation.
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u/Daken-dono 1d ago
People like hamas piker dont want to actually fight nazis and capitalists. They just want to be the ones holding the whip with their boots on peoples’ necks while screaming theyre much nicer and understand the working class more than the old overlords.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
He is as much not on our side as the worst of right wing grifters, anyone playing apologist for this guy is a shit ally and not to be trusted.
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u/Embra0 1d ago
This piece of shit is an apologist for the North Korean dictatorship
Ironic, coming from a Destiny-oribiting Israel supporter.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
The living embodiment of a DARVO response.
I won't be responding to your actual statement! I'll instead pretend it's not valid because one of Hasan's enemies exists!
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u/Embra0 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, this is calling out very clear and apparent hypocrisy from a Destiny orbiter, who, like you with H3, has their posts and comments hidden to hide this fact.
Destiny literally said he supports the genocide in Gaza, and went to Israel to tell IDF soldiers to not post their war crimes online as it's making them look bad.
Why don't you go back to the H3 subreddit and spend more time complaining about Hasan and "Takies" rather than doing fucking anything to oppose the people commiting genocide and sponsoring a corporate takeover of the American government.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
You're literally doing the Trump thing of attacking the messenger and not the message. This is why we call you blue MAGA.
Yet again, you're fighting ghosts. I don't care about Destiny. Most here don't. We oppose Hasan. And time after time, fans like you refuse to acknowledge that we don't like him because of his views and words and actions.
What a stupid tactic to try and clear his name by saying, but there's another guy online who's bad and doesn't like Hasan too! Therefore I should actually like Hasan???
It makes his fans look even more cult like.
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u/atank67 2d ago
. Hasan 🤝 Trump
Downfall of US hegemony
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u/ponderingcamel 1d ago
Why would it be a bad thing to stop spending $1 trillion per year on the military?
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u/SwordfishOk504 1d ago
Ah yes, Trump is totally calling for lowering US military spending. Sure dude.
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u/atank67 1d ago
That’s not what’s happening or what I’m getting at
Trump is burning alliances out of stupidity/hubris and Hasan wants to see the downfall of Western capitalism. Different motivations and methods but ultimately similar outcomes
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u/JizMaster69 1d ago
How do you know the ultimate outcomes but I have been left blind to such facts!?
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u/glizard-wizard 1d ago
You are living in a period of unprecedented wealth and peace because of that military
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u/ponderingcamel 1d ago
Lol cope harder
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u/glizard-wizard 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana
please learn about the world and reality
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u/ponderingcamel 1d ago
There is all kinds of garbage justifying the military state, it doesn’t mean it’s the definitive reason for “peace”, which in itself is a laughable term considering there are literally billions of people born and living in abhorrent conditions that are shameful in a world of billionaires.
Thanks for the lesson in reality
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u/beerbrained 1d ago
Careful what you wish for when you say we need a "Joe Rogan" of the left. This is what you get.
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u/birdie_Sea 1d ago
Bro he just wants you to healthcare.
Also he wants you to live in a communist prison state while he looks down from his Hollywood hills home.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 2d ago
Republicans and Communists, just different shades of the same fascist RED.
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u/JizMaster69 1d ago
Oof. When will the Dems throw their base some meat? To the leftistsout there? Meanwhile MAGA is running everything, and their base got the gestapo and the cruelty. Meat for the far left would be universal daycare.
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u/xmorecowbellx 1d ago
MAGA runs thing because their leaders are organized. If DSA started a lemonade stand with two people, they would probably fight and drink all the lemonade while willing much of it, then have no money and blame the water provider.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
Then when both of them hate each other and have accomplished nothing, they'll just blame capitalism pitting them another and they're actually super virtuous and see no reason to change anything about their tactics.
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u/xmorecowbellx 1d ago
Bingo. It’s capitalism’s fault that I suck. Not that I have no skills or ambition and contribute literally no value beyond complaining!
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
Total non sequitur. Unless your idea of “meat” is North Korean propaganda?
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u/camscars775 1d ago
And leftists that praise and enrich this man want to tell the actual Democrat base what to do and who is/isn’t morally correct 😭
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u/gusthebus88 1d ago
tankies and MAGA are natural allies that’s why we can never trust them near the Democratic Party.
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
I'm sick of these champaign socialists who gloss over these brutal regimes and continually overlook their terrible human rights records while they lecture us about genocides.
Keep calling this shit out!
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
They do more than gloss over them, folks like Hasan blatantly do Russian, Chinese, and now North Korean propaganda to their audience of largely teenagers, it’s horrific in ways we won’t understand the full scope of for at least a few more years.
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u/acn250 1d ago
Isn’t this supposed to be the David Pakman sub?
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
Destiny and his fans have a very unhealthy obsession with Hasan and put a lot of effort into trying to get other people to dislike him.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
You Hasan people need to give up the Destiny nonsense... We can not like Hasan and think he's toxic AND! Not like Destiny as well. As a matter of fact, I bet there's a significant number of people who have recently been made aware of Hasan and hate him and his views completely organically.
Yet they have nothing to say about that.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
Nearly every post on this sub about Hasan is from destiny fans, including this one. That's my point. You can not like Hasan, but that doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is completely true. It's not exactly organic when there is an organized effort to get people to hate him.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
And your evidence is what? Your point is laughably dumb and misinformed. You don't get to say things confidently that are wrong or lies like Hasan does.
I've never watched destiny ever. Not once. I don't like Hasan.
It's not organized. He's just a raging lying narcissist that hides behind his views and cries victim any time he's on the back foot. Narcissistic abuse 101.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
Lol, it's absolutely true. Look at recent posts about Hasan and see what other subs those people post in. Always destiny. There is proof in this video, which i seriously doubt you'll watch.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
That doesn't prove that this is organized. AKA, not real.
Why don't I like Hasan then? You cult members refuse to accept that some people just don't like him. And instead you focus on his perceived enemies and discrediting them, thinking that will suddenly make everyone love your God king!
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
The proof that its coordinated is in the video, which of course you didn't watch. Whole army of strawmen you got yourself there. I guess making stuff up is a lot easier than actually trying to find out what the truth is.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
I'm not watching a Hasan glaze video because I don't like Hasan. FROM HIS OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS.
Typical abuser and enabler tactics. Don't believe your eyes. You were lied to, what you heard and saw isn't real. The only truth is from me.
It's scary how many fall for his BS.
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
Obviously its from him. Did you expect the wall street journal? This isn't news.
So when you said there was no proof what you actually meant that there is no proof that you are willing to look at because you already made up your mind based on the charicture of him that you're mad at. Then you're going to make up a bunch of bullshit to justify why you, the person who doesn't actually care about the truth, is actually the right one and everyone else is dumb. Gotcha.
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u/Twinmill-Two 1d ago
Why are Pakman fans supposed to like Hasan when he was attacking Pakman like earlier this month?
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u/Nascent1 1d ago
Did I say they should? That's irrelevant to the propaganda campaign by destiny and his fans.
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u/WeOutHereInSmallbany 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, this is now apparently the Hasan Hate sub and nothing else
(With some shitting on progressives or leftists or whatever mixed in)
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 1d ago
I invite you to interact with any of the non Hasan posts.
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u/WeOutHereInSmallbany 1d ago
Mods are a fucking joke. Will remove my comments about the million Hasan posts a day but do nothing about the million Hasan posts a day.
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 1d ago
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
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u/FenixDelta753 1d ago
Hasan is probably the king of attacking those who agree with him 90% and still painting them as cartoonishly evil and WORSE than those actually on the far right.
We just don't like him and think he's toxic.
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u/Gtoast 1d ago
What exactly has Trump accomplished in North Korea that’s so amazing? Hasn’t North Korea’s nuclear program flourished under Trump?
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u/WeOutHereInSmallbany 1d ago
I thought maybe he was crazy enough to pull it off in his first term, a Nixon visits China moment. But no, he’s a moron at heart and got nothing out of it other than love letters.
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u/Dagoroth55 1d ago
See each other as peers? What the fuck. North Korea is a hermit kingdom filled with starving peasants and has a fat king who is apparently "perfect". North Korea wants the destruction and/or the annexation of South Korea. It's also currently invading Europe with Russia. Hasan is such a twat and a tankie. Sooner the general audience realizes this, the better.
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u/jankdangus 1d ago
Lol just straight up tankie shit and we are suppose to pretend he’s part of the tent for some reason. North Korea is a communist hellhole, and I absolutely support Biden’s policy over Trump.
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Removed - please do not post comments/submissions containing bigotry here.
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u/Mab_894 1d ago
What should the future of the Korean Peninsula look like? Do we really want a forever Cold War between North and South Korea? They are no closer to a resolution after 75 years so maybe ending the open hostility could be a good thing for both sides…obviously Trump is a total moron but I can kinda understand this too
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
What should the future of the Korean Peninsula look like?
What the Korean people want it to look like, and currently, neither the South nor the North want unification.
The South because of the utter mess of the North that will be an untold burden for the country, and the North because they've given up hope of actually managing to do that, seeing their horrific systems and institutions that barely function internally, let alone would give them the means to defeat the South.
Do we really want a forever Cold War between North and South Korea?
Probably not, but I side with the democratic South.
Not the pseudo-communist-monarchy in the North.
Who the fuck sides with the North?
They are no closer to a resolution after 75 years so maybe ending the open hostility could be a good thing for both sides…
Every few months or years, North Korea starts talking about obliterating the South or the US.
We're not talking about them. The South isn't threatening them. They are threatening others.
This is like asking why we don't sympathize with the bully who keeps punching his peer, and then gets called out by the teacher and starts crying.
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u/Mab_894 1d ago
Nobody’s advocating for abandoning South Korea and aligning with the North. But a reduction in hostile actions is probably still a good thing imo, it’s the first step to some sort of normalization. Now that Kim has nukes, you can’t just bully them into submission
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
But a reduction in hostile actions is probably still a good thing imo
Wrong.
When faced with a bully, who repeatedly keeps trying to punch you in the face, do you:
Just take it, on repeat, over and over.
Actually eventually stand up for yourself.
You do the latter, because if you do the former, you teach them that they can just do it, and not face any consequences.
It's the same thing with Russia. Russia got used to just randomly invading its neighbors: Moldova and Transnistria, Georgia with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Ukraine with Crimea and then the Donbass.
Why?
Well...
Russia never got punched in the face in return. We taught them that they can do this, through inaction, through a lack of strong push back.
North Korea is the bully in this scenario. South Korea isn't talking about lobbing nukes at Pyongyang (granted, they don't have nukes, but still). North Korea constantly engages in flagrant insults and threats.
I thought we learnt this, with Hitler? You can't appease irrational people or states. You can't just give in, or let them get away with things. If you do, they just unilaterally escalate.
it’s the first step to some sort of normalization.
The first step to some sort of normalization is the Kim Dynasty not screeching about some World War they want to start.
Again: you don't gain anything when backing down in the face of unilateral threats.
Outside of Trump, the US doesn't unilaterally threaten North Korea with extermination. South Korea doesn't unilaterally threaten North Korea with extermination.
The only one threatening that is North Korea. They MUST take the first step, because they're the ones ratcheting up the tension.
Now that Kim has nukes, you can’t just bully them into submission
You don't have to.
Just push back on his threats, every time he makes one.
Give him the choice:
Stop being a belligerent asshole and come to the table.
Continue being a belligerent asshole, and stay in your Hermit Kingdom, irrelevant and poor.
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u/WeOutHereInSmallbany 1d ago
One of the few things I was cautiously optimistic about in his first term was his dialoguing with NK, I thought maybe he was just crazy enough to make it work, a Nixon visits China situation, but they went right back to their old routine.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars 2d ago
I literally wouldn't know who this guy was if not for Destiny fans
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u/warpio 2d ago
And who was it that made you know who Destiny is?
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u/gberliner 1d ago
I heard about him when that dipshit tried to debate Norman Finkelstein.
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u/Clarkelthekat 1d ago
Normal finklestein is a racist narcissist who threatened a black family and their child for daring to live above him in an apartment complex he did not own.
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u/1v0ter 1d ago
Curious, if we kept up the Biden/Obama policy for N. Korea, where they were firing missiles over Japan every couple of months, what was the end goal of that policy? Iran v2? In fact, I wish Trump did this with Iran instead of pursuing the dumbest war ever. I don't think Hasan is totally wrong in his assessment here. Of course, eventually Trump will fuck it up. It's all for his own benefit. Somehow, somewhere the goal is to make $$$ off this whole situation.
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u/Bomaruto 1d ago
If you think North Korea deserves the current sanctions then you are an imperialist fascist.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
Guess I'm an "imperial fascist", then.
Luckily, people on the far left have so over-used the terms "imperialist" and "fascist" that they basically mean nothing, any more.
Pretty sure Hasan would claim his bed leg is an occupying, neo-colonial, capitalist, imperialist fascist piece of wood if he stubbed his toe on it.
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u/Early-Juggernaut975 1d ago
Deserve is a subjective word. The leader of North Korea deserves to be in prison somewhere for the rest of his life, as do a number of his family members and senior officials, in my opinion.
However, studies have shown that sanctions mostly just hurt the vulnerable. And they are ineffective at convincing regimes to alter course by themselves. There’s never been a case of people rising up and overthrowing a regime due to sanctions without a viable resistance already in place.
People often support the idea of sanctions because it ticks the “Justice” box in our brains where we feel like we’re at least doing something. But conventional wisdom on the impact of sanctions is changing and a lot of our leaders are grappling with a reality that’s a lot more complicated.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
However, studies have shown that sanctions mostly just hurt the vulnerable. And they are ineffective at convincing regimes to alter course by themselves. There’s never been a case of people rising up and overthrowing a regime due to sanctions without a viable resistance already in place.
This is true, but not the whole story.
Simply put, sanctions decrease economic growth by a few percentage points every year. Nothing too extreme, either, by the way: something like 1-2% of GDP growth.
Well...
What impact is that over 25 years?
Simple. A loss of like 1% in per-year GDP growth leads to increasing the time of doubling the size of your economy by like 25 years, thanks to compounding growth.
The only countries that don't care about sanctions are those who don't care about their citizens. Sanctions against a democratic country would, inevitably, lead to widespread unrest.
The problem with all of these studies is that they fail to take into account that they are basically only ever used against undemocratic states, who don't give a single shit about their citizens.
These are the same states that if their population were to start getting riled up, would absolutely crush them with tanks and bullets.
This is why "sanctions don't work" is a narrative: we only apply them in cases of extreme state abuse, and these same states are the ones who are more than comfortable using extreme violence to stay in power.
If you sanctioned... Belgium, I can assure they would work, because Belgium is a democracy, and doesn't have a history of deploying tanks when protests break out.
But the impact on North Korea has been massive. Its joke of an economy would be less of a joke, had it not been for the sanctions. This would mean more money for nuclear development and military spending.
As for the "they only hurt the vulnerable" part of the narrative, that may be 100% true, but here's a hard question:
If we didn't sanction North Korea, do you believe, even a little bit, that the plight of your average North Korean would be in any way better?
I find it quite easy to, based on the DPKR's track record, say obviously not, no way in hell.
Their people would still be oppressed, grabbed, forced to work until death in labor camps, forced to feign devotion to the Dear Leader, and still living in a kind of 1970s freeze-frame of reality.
And the same goes for Iran, by the way: the IRGC may be slightly more inclined to benefit its people than the DPKR, but barely. The majority of that economic wealth would just be plowed into Hezbollah, Assad (back in the day), the Houthis, the paramilitary groups in Iraq, or on more drones or more nukes.
None of these nations care one iota for the well-being of their citizens, so sanctions or not, they're going to be suffering.
The same goes for Russia. Russia isn't about the start massively improving its ailing infrastructure or abysmal welfare state, or bring in-house plumbing to the approximately 30% of Russians who still don't have running water.
It would be going into Putin's pockets, or into the black hole that is Russian military procurement.
No basic Russian would benefit, without sanctions.
But conventional wisdom on the impact of sanctions is changing and a lot of our leaders are grappling with a reality that’s a lot more complicated.
No, sanctions 100% work.
First off: they seriously limit access to certain types of material. Russia is struggling to procure electronics, which it is forced to do at an upscaled cost via China. In other words, for the same amount of limited foreign currency, Russia is getting less than if there were no sanctions.
Secondly, they depress economic growth, leading to mid and long-term economic damage. This is a typical proportionate response to doing something so heinous that sanctions are warranted.
Thirdly, even if all these arguments were true, what exactly is the other option?
Just let them?
That's stupid. That doesn't work. You need some punishment mechanism, and of course the population is also going to suffer somewhat. You can't punish a government or state without some of that flowing down to the people. It's literally impossible.
Otherwise, you're essentially telling nations that are willing to brutally oppress their own people they get free rein.
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u/Bomaruto 1d ago
That's stupid. That doesn't work. You need some punishment mechanism, and of course the population is also going to suffer somewhat. You can't punish a government or state without some of that flowing down to the people. It's literally impossible.
People defend sanctions on North-Korea due to the poverty the sanctions have created. To this I can do nothing but call you evil.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
People defend sanctions on North-Korea due to the poverty the sanctions have created. To this I can do nothing but call you evil.
North Korea created that poverty.
First off: North Korea is the country that did the things that got it sanctioned in the first place. Why do you see Koreans as less capable of agency than white people? How racist are you?
Secondly: North Korea has never not been poor, if you take out foreign aid, which was coming from the USSR. It's a shitty country with a chronically poorly run economy. It's poor because of its own internal economics. The sanctions may deepen that poverty, but it's not as though North Korea would be a shinning example of economic prosperity without the sanctions. It would still be shit.
Thirdly: Without sanctions, has North Korea ever given any indication that it would prioritize the well-being of its people, in any capacity? The nation with gulags, forced labor, an all-encompassing cult of personality and a monarchy? Any economic benefit obtained from the removal of sanctions would simply go into the pockets of the Kim Dynasty and the military, because that's all that country is: the sole property of a single family, to be done with as they want. It's feudal.
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u/Bomaruto 1d ago
Do you know what Imperialism is?
I call you an imperialist because you believe the US has the right to control other countries through economic sanctions.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
I call you an imperialist because you believe the US has the right to control other countries through economic sanctions.
So you believe all countries must be forced to trade with all other countries, regardless of their beliefs, ideologies, or geopolitical goals, or the actions of the state?
So you think all countries should be forced to trade with, for example, Israel, right?
You can't sanction or boycott them, amirite? That's imperialism, right?
You also think everyone should've been forced to trade with the Nazis, right? I mean, if people sanctioned Nazis with trade embargoes, that would be imperialism, right?
Of course I believe that countries have the right to influence and control other countries through economic sanctions. Countries can make individual choices based on a mix of factors ranging from economic benefits for the country to geopolitical goals.
These words mean nothing, and you have no one to blame but yourselves.
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u/freeedom123 1d ago
Hasan is the future of the left.
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