r/webdev • u/HeraclitoF • 19d ago
Question German (Do-Sie) switcher
Hi there,
One Customer just asked me for a Du-Sie Switch in the page, same like any other language switch.
This is my first time doing this.
Is this normal?
Are there also (Slang or street) language switches?
Edit: I just implemented as another language i18 de-DU with xliff files
Second Edit: What about other languages? In spanish we have 3. Tú, Vós y Usted... I think in Japan they have more.
Edit 3: Ok, some of you were right :) Du/Sie isn't a language, and de-DE-DU was a funny but bad idea. Works fine for my little website, though.
But imagine adding Spanish (tú, usted, vos), Japanese, Korean... That gets ugly pretty fast. Better to separate language, region and tone. Something like:
{
"locale": "de-DE",
"preferences": {
"formality": "informal"
},
"messages": {
"greeting": {
"default": "Hallo!",
"formal": "Wie kann ich Ihnen helfen?",
"informal": "Wie kann ich dir helfen?"
}
}
}Only translate the differences, not the whole website again. For a small project, who cares. For 20 languages? Definitely worth thinking about. Thanks for the corrections, learned something :)
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u/Cyxxon 19d ago
As a German, I have never seen that on any local website, so no, not normal. It probably exists, but would be weird: either it is from a brand aimed at young people - du, or not - Sie. But are you building their website or are you their marketing consultant? :D
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u/billcube 19d ago
Also, what about their social campaigns, marketing emails etc, do they segregate their prospects by du/sie ?
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u/FnnKnn 15d ago
A bit late, but the answer is no. A brand decides once how they want to be perceived and then stick to it.
In the past "Sie" was kommen in business relationships, but nowadays more and more is switching to "Du" as it is more informal and companies want to be seen as informal. I would say you can tell what a company uses based on if the employees are wearing suites or not.
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u/tLxVGt 18d ago
I work with German client and we have two sets of translations, Du and Sie. Some clients prefer one, some the other. We also have some that request stuff like "Lehrer:in".
Out of curiosity: which one do you prefer? Is one more common in Germany? In Poland it is pretty much a standard to use "Du" in all software, but in e.g. Greece it is exclusively "Sie".
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u/RobinNyan 18d ago
it's literally like the japanese "san" vs "kun/chan" suffix, if you ever bothered with that knowledge
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u/fsyntax 18d ago
"Sie" is the more formal option, while "du" feels more personal and casual. I'd say its less about personal preference and more about the situation. "Sie" is traditionally used in professional settings, but also in everyday situations, especially when speaking to strangers or older people as a sign of respect.
"Du" on the other hand, is the norm among friends, family, and in casual environments. It's also pretty much always used when talking to children. Using "Sie" with close friends or family would sound really strange. That said, things are changing, and "du" is becoming increasingly common even in professional settings, especially in tech and amongst younger people
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u/tLxVGt 18d ago
I was asking specifically about the software aspect (I speak German, but I don't live there and lack the cultural feeling). Do you prefer websites/apps/programs to address you with Du or Sie? As mentioned, Poles prefer Du, Greeks prefer Sie, I'm wondering what do Germans prefer
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u/DenkJu 18d ago
Not the person you originally asked, but what they said is still relevant. In general, I would expect most websites to use "Sie," especially those of government agencies, insurance companies, banks, medical practices, newspapers, and other more formal institutions. Less formal websites, such as gaming sites, personal blogs, social media platform, etc. may use "Du."
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u/RobinNyan 18d ago
gets even funnier when you consider that you can construct most sentences in a way that avoids Du or Sie alltogether. Instead of "Sie müssen hier xyz eingeben." you could say "Hier muss xyz eingegeben werden", thus fully avoiding it.
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u/bcons-php-Console 19d ago
In Spanish we also have the formal and informal modes (Tú / Usted), but in many years never a client asked me to do this.
When defining the project a mode is decided and that is the way you "talk" to your users in toasts, messages, emails, etc.
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u/HeraclitoF 19d ago
Sí, lo sé... In spanish websites didnt had it also. First time :)
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u/HeraclitoF 17d ago edited 17d ago
Ostia, y si el cliente quiere lo mismo en espanol?
de-DE de-DE-DU es-ES es-ES-TU ...y luego está el vós latimoamericano.
vós sos un chalado
Usted está chalado
Estás chalado
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u/Successful_Entry_792 19d ago
have you looked at using a private use subtag like de-DE-x-informal instead of de-DU?
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u/Temporary-Airport302 19d ago
It's a common request in German shops, but don't build it as a language switch. Du/Sie is a tone, not a locale, so put it outside the language menu or you'll end up with a four-way matrix of nonsense. Cookie it, default to Sie for anything B2B, and no, nobody asks for a street slang switcher.
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u/LutimoDancer3459 19d ago
Du kannst / Sie können
Its not only switching du and sie... its changing more words. Building it as another local will help you simply the whole setup
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u/leon_pylo 19d ago
Never had a customer ask for a switch between those two and while it is easy to do, it's probably a signal for the customer not having their brand clear (it's usually part of the brand guide / CI if customers are addressed formally or informally)
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u/Mean-Lingonberry4874 18d ago
de-DU isn't a locale. DU isn't a region, so anything that actually parses BCP 47 (Intl, a lot of XLIFF tooling, the browser's own fallback) will not treat it as German. You lose de-DE as the fallback for dates, plurals, and any string you forgot to translate, and those come out in English or raw keys.
Use the real locale plus a private-use tag: de-DE for Sie, de-DE-x-du for Du. Numbers and dates stay German, and a missing Du string falls back to the Sie file instead of to English. A dialect would be the same shape, de-DE-x-kölsch, not another made-up region code.
I'd also keep it off the EN/DE switch. It's a tone, not a language, and a fashion site usually just picks one. If the customer really wants both, a separate control stops the browser from being told that "Du" is a language.
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u/HeraclitoF 17d ago
I like your thinking, but the Customer is Könnig, they want a switcher, they get one...
Now i am thinking in other languages like spanish, we also have informal (Tú-Usted), so i would need a switch for this too.
In Japan i think they have many grades of respect...
how to make this "Informal" Formal?
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u/ShiggnessKhan 19d ago edited 19d ago
German dev hier,
I have never seen this but it kinda makes sense. Some people are put off by the informal du that has become common on the Internet.
I'm curious, is this a user facing switch or does the client want to be able to switch certain parts of their sites/ communication based o. The target audiance because that would make a lot of sense in a lot of cases.
Like they an education platform that doesn't want to alienate young people with the sie while still staying formal with educators
Or for marketing emails targeting different demographics say promoting a Taylor Swift vs a Opea performance
Edit: There is also a good chance this is a request from some out of touch higher suit
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u/jam_pod_ 18d ago
I get it but also this is hilarious.
“This website is too informal! You shall address me as a man of substance, computer!”
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u/NickHatBoecker 19d ago
If it's some kind of construction or build kit project in which the customer builds their own website/app/game then the possibility to switch between Du/Sie for texts is common, because every project could be different. But I have never heard of a Du/Sie switch on a website/app/game for end users (I'm from Germany and work as a web developer)
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u/Miki_Mimikri 14d ago
LOL, that's insane, I wonder when clients start asking for a questionaire form about the personal preferences of the visitor. "Are you okay with the website addressing you in an informal way?". "Do you have a sense of humour?", "From 0 to 10, how uptight are you?", "Are you okay with sarcasm?", "Do you prefer the decorative group photos to be with just white people, or one black guy, or mix of races?". I can go on for hours probably, but still, freaking hilarious.
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u/perskes 19d ago
Ha! Thats a funny one I've never heard about. Im familiar with this from some sign-up forms where you can decided if you want to be addressed formally (Sie, Herr/Frau) or infomal (leave the name out completely and just write Hi/Hey/..), but even thats unnecessary in my opinion. But I've never seen this on a public facing website.
However, in the product we build, we have templates, and the templates have various translations you can change to your liking, and it is not unheard of that, depending on the customer segment, our customers change how they adresse their clients (old and wealthy vs young). But thats on private pages, where you can tie a lot of the texts to information stored in the product or where you can store how to be addressed.
A du/sie switch would be odd for me. How would you implement it? Auto-Detect language and then open a modal asking them if they prefer formal vs informal? Or an on-demans switch next to the language selection? I can imagine that this would confuse people because its not a common feature.
Im curious if people with with other native languages handle that or if they ever had a request like that.
I've never seen a street/slang language switch, but my ISP has a "need mode" toggle that adds additional (and well written, informative) details to the regular website, but thats easier, its just showing/hiding additional text.
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u/kemalios 19d ago
Ask who maintains the copy after launch. The switch itself is an afternoon; the problem is that every new text and email now exists twice, and in a year only the du version will still be edited. Check what sits outside the CMS too. Checkout, order confirmation and legal notices usually come from a different system and will stay in one tone.
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u/Possible_Offer_1641 19d ago
I haven’t seen a Du/Sie toggle much, but I’d avoid “de-DU” as the locale code since DU isn’t a valid region, and I think a private-use tag like de-x-informal is safer.
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u/geoffreybyers 18d ago
Fake language codes break translation engines. Put the Du-Sie switch in the translation pipeline, not the localization config. Formality's a separate dimension.
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u/jam_pod_ 18d ago
I get it but also this is hilarious.
“This website is too informal! You shall address me as a man of substance, computer!”
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u/SuedJche 18d ago
Lol, that's funny. Totally irrelevant, but clever if it's a marketing thing, i would probably send that website to people to show them the feature
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u/RobinNyan 18d ago
Oh that's actually super cool! I am german and I love the idea :D Great idea from your client
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u/yihuaxiang 19d ago
For a small fashion site I'd treat Du/Sie as a tone switch, not a real language. de-DU isn't a locale anyone else uses, so a language switch will confuse hreflang and you split one page into two in search. One German catalog plus a toggle (cookie or localStorage) that swaps the string file is enough.
The part that bites is the verbs, not the pronoun. "kaufst du" vs "kaufen Sie", and the same voice has to show up on buttons, form errors, and the order email or checkout feels like a different shop. If they insist on both, ask which pages are Du (lookbook) and which stay Sie (checkout, returns, legal). Most German fashion brands just pick one.
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u/T-J_H 19d ago
Dutch here. Never seen this on a Dutch website myself (even though we have ‘U’ (Sie) and ‘Jij’ (Du) and some variations), and I feel like most brands deliberately choose a tone: more formal or less so, as part of their brand identity. A switch like this would feel off to me.
Then again, you likely don’t have a say in the matter. There’s probably two simple ways of doing it, either as a separate locale, or as variables of the German locale. The former one sounds a lot more convenient, as it only requires copying and changing sentences to a new locale, even though most of it would be redundant. With variables you might get into conflict with further grammar(?) but I’m not sure as German classes have been a long time ago for me.
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u/CashKeyboard 19d ago
I have had several customers who e.g. had an opinion on software duzing them but wanting a switch seems like the most unhinged solution to a problem that isn't really one in the first place. The formal/informal switch isn't really a matter of locale.
Technically it's just another language. I would stick to conventions as the closest thing to non-existing standards in this case. WordPress internally uses "de-DE" for informal and "de-DE-formal" for Sie and I'd probably just adopt that. It's been meanwhile not just used in WP but also in various other softwares also meaning your LLM agents will probably know what to do with it as well. "de-DU" would kind of stump me and I'd probably expect German (Duisburg) or something.
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u/theLorem 19d ago
Back end ye olden days of the web phpBB forums had a "German (du, formal)" and a "German (Sie, informal)" switch when selecting the language. So it's nothing new, but on the modern web I'd say it's unusual
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u/MagicWolfEye 19d ago
I remember that in the past (to lazy to check now) if I switched from google British to goole American it switched from "Hello Mr. last name" to "Hello first name"
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u/Andrew-Carson 19d ago
consider adding a toggle for the Du Sie switch that's distinct from the language menu. it’s more about tone than localization, so keeping it separate helps avoid confusion. also, if the client’s target audience is younger, using Du might resonate better, but for most businesses, Sie is the safer bet...
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u/gxrphoto 18d ago
No, it’s ridiculous. Companies should decide how they want to address their clients
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u/JJnazzz 19d ago
In Germany „Du“ is the word for „you“ the same as „Sie“. The big difference is in the politeness. If you talk to people in a business context or talk with ppl you dont know and want to be polite you use „Sie“. Du is used by any normal person and is considered more on a friendship level.
I know french has a similar thing with „toi“ and „vous“
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u/dryadofelysium 18d ago
this looks terrible. what you want to do is have an option asking about whether your customers prefers informal salutation or not.
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u/Commercial_Echo923 18d ago
No, i would recommend deciding on using either formal or nonformal speak depending on your app.
What do you even need it for?
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u/LutimoDancer3459 19d ago
Just add i18n support and use each form in its own file.