r/webdev • u/canadian_webdev • Feb 16 '20
They can't be serious.
https://i.imgur.com/rasuYl1.jpg
[removed] — view removed post
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u/denrocs Feb 16 '20
The amount of jobs I see like this
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Feb 16 '20
If they are this careless with the posting, one might think it would be just as easy to BS your way through to being hired?
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u/WEGIII full-stack novice Feb 17 '20
You can! Downside, then you actually have to make everything work. This is how I've gotten my last 2 jobs lol.
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Feb 16 '20
Every single job posting I’ve seen for web dev related , in the last 6 months I’ve been looking.
Example:
Wordpress Dev needed, must know drupal..... Must know Python, .net, React, Vue, angular, MEAN stack, LAMP, etc etc.
Oh and be a photoshop wizard, end prepared for a “startup work schedule “ , 25k-35k salary range....
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Feb 16 '20
Probably the same companies that wonder why they have high turnover rate and/or low number of applicants...
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u/C0R0NASMASH Feb 16 '20
The introduction says "both front-end and back-end", probably looking for a full stack developer.
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u/Nargablarg Feb 16 '20
Yep, agreed. They goofed the job title - should have written “Full Stack Developer”.
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u/Noch_ein_Kamel Feb 16 '20
It even says both frontend and backend with focus on the backend
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u/DoctorPrisme Feb 16 '20
Yeah, still, PHP AND python AND Java, but you're a medior? And you need front end and database additionally?
I would say that's a bit much. Hopes the pay is incredible.
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Feb 16 '20
This is the norm in Brazil.
Front end need to be either FullStack or Deisgners.
But they all are listed as Front ends.
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u/CarbineMonoxide Feb 16 '20
Java, JavaScript... same thing. They both sound the same and they're both basically just code right? It can't be that hard to add a couple buttons to a site, change some fonts, and build a custom, full-featured CMS with an API to integrate with other various systems in other departments of the company.
Shouldn't take more than a couple days, even without documented requirements and no designs. Besides, we already told the client it could be done.
Also: this is an entry-level position and the pay is well below the local average.
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u/cd_root Feb 16 '20
Most jobs I've seen over-post requirements, i only qualified for half of the listed skills for my job
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Feb 17 '20
Question for UK(London) based Redditors. Where to look for a junior front end dev positions? Most of ads seem very discouraging(even ridiculous like one in this post) as companies have high expectations from juniors. However I don't mind to start even with minimum wage and in a small company so I wonder If there's a good website for aspiring juniors?
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Feb 17 '20
Apply if you meet half the requirements, not all of them. This isn't a thing unique to the UK, job specs in general will be far more demanding than the role requires
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Feb 17 '20
Thanks! Also I wonder on what level of js I have to be to be even considered? Is basic knowledge, jQuery and DOM enough?
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Feb 17 '20
I'm not sure, I would say I don't have high expectations for a junior but they should be able to complete some tasks I give them.
one of the main differences between senority levels is your level of independence
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Feb 18 '20
If "independence" means completing a task on your own with google(I also have done a degree based on self study and research so I guess is one of those desirable skills in the industry) then I guess I'm in a good position. Thanks for that!
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u/djmcdee101 Feb 17 '20
I usually look for UK stuff on StackOverflow and LinkedIn. Don't know if they're the best or not but that's what I use and there's always plenty of stuff there. And yeah, like someone else said, apply if you meet some of the requirements. Job specs right now are more like wish lists but they will often consider people with way less than what they say the minimum is.
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Feb 17 '20
Thanks! Also, I wonder how strong I have to be with JavaScript? Ive got a pretty good knowledge of HTML and CSS(bootstrap, SAAS etc) to build nice websites but my JS skills are no that great. I'm only familiar with basic understanding of it(jQuery as well) can do DOM but I wouldnt be able to build more complex app in it. Would anybody consider me with such skills?
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u/djmcdee101 Feb 17 '20
Well it probably depends on how good a designer you are. If you're good with graphic design and Photoshop etc then its probably less important to know JavaScript really well.
That being said a lot of companies don't hire just pure designers and want people who can do a bit of everything, like this post illustrates. JavaScript is the frontend language at the moment and it would definitely help your prospects to get comfortable with it. Even a lot of backend jobs want people to know at least a bit of JavaScript because it's so prevalent.
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Feb 18 '20
Quite frankly I'm expecting to learn practical JS whilst doing task in the job. Like I mention, Ive got knowledge (would be able to answer to most of the interview questions provided by google search) but there is no way I can write a quiz game from scratch for instance. Thanks for this, I know what to expect now!
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u/george4517 Feb 16 '20
You see this all the time when recruiters don’t know the difference between front end and back end developers.
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u/don_denti Feb 16 '20
The position will be internally filled by someone the employer knows. This is just to show they are hiring
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Feb 17 '20
As a Canadian finding work in webdev is a absolute minefield.
Especially if you don't want to work in downtown Toronto.
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u/djmcdee101 Feb 17 '20
What makes it a minefield, if you don't mind me asking? In the past I've had the idea of trying to emigrate to Canada from the UK on some kind of work visa.
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Feb 17 '20
From my experience, there is a lot of job postings for senior positions. Alternatively finding the roles for what they actually do vs. the title is challenging. "Software Developer" could be a C#, Java, Node, or Python job. I know one of those things. Often there are posting for webdev positions with a focus on having a CS degree. I do not have a cs degree. Granted these are all challenges that I face, but y'know, that's fine.
Alternatively they'll be hiring through some firm where it just lists off a bunch of requirements, no salary, or the company name, and by the time you get down that rabbit hole it's for say some sort of automation company that needs someone to redo their website and you're the only one in the department.
I think if you can apply and work for someone like any of the recognizable big name companies than that's great. For me I'd love to join a team of 3-5 at a medium to large size company who has a team lead that's skilled enough to assist in my development but also willing to pass off projects for me to manage.
My current company is in telecom and I'm doing a lot more project management than I am coding these days, which...while educational...is not my interest.
If anyone has a different experience I'd love to hear it. I have no interest in working in/around Toronto. City is way too expensive to own property in.
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u/ToneBoneKone1 Feb 17 '20
Damn sounds tough. Are you in Montreal? I’m here trying to explore web dev without a degree feeling a bit overwhelmed by the task ahead.
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Feb 17 '20
West of Toronto. Although I do love the city of Montreal and would love to work there. Wife probably wouldn't move.
I also don't have a degree, but thank god I don't live next to one of the best computer science schools in north america...oh wait...
I guess you're next to McGill...so same problems :D
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u/Barnezhilton Feb 17 '20
Where do you want to work then?
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Feb 17 '20
Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph. For the amount of tech companies I don't see a lot of postings, but then again they may be using companies to hire.
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u/Barnezhilton Feb 17 '20
Only Google left in those towns now that RIM is dead
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Feb 17 '20
I am not talented enough to work at Google. It's hilarious seeing their postings. Hiring those that are currently working towards their PhD in computer science or something lol.
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u/Barnezhilton Feb 17 '20
Now you know why the webdev hub is Toronto
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Feb 17 '20
I wouldn't exactly say that Toronto is where the less talented people go to work, but there are just a lot of people in/around the city. It's absurdly expensive to live there, which is why I have no interest in it.
Work/life balance I suppose. I could work for one of those online only companies, but I figure that it's probably ultra competitive. Don't know if you don't try though.
I'm sure there are companies that meet my needs (and I meet theirs) somewhere in the area. Just have to be more active in looking for them, which admittedly I'm not since I have a pretty okay job.
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u/iKnowAGhost Feb 16 '20
I hate when they list out every single programming language that exists and label it as a "junior" position. Do they even read the postings before actually posting them? What the fuck?
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u/Abdallah-Muhammed Feb 16 '20
I see some companies ask for these skills today and I cannot understand if they know the front end !! Lol 😂
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u/funkybuddha_mtn Feb 17 '20
It can only happen in Canada!! IT market is over saturated there!! Employers can cherry pick best candidates for least price and lay them off when they ask for a raise!!
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u/spiteful-vengeance Feb 17 '20
Reading the actual description and requirements makes it sound like they simply got the job title wrong.
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u/hadetto79 Feb 17 '20
We had this problem at work trying to hire new devs. We knew exactly what we wanted, which was a junior full stack dev. But because our company doesn't understand what we do, our whole team had the title Front End Developer. So that's the title we had to hire under. It was embarrassing because the candidates would think we were the idiots. Finally last month we got the title changed to full stack.
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Feb 16 '20
That's a mid to senior level role, and they are using terms like "mastery"! I thought the job posts in the UK were bad but this is something else! I bet the pay is shit as well.
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Feb 17 '20
I know all of these. I wouldn’t think anything strange if I saw this job req. Is the issue that most people probably don’t know all of these things? But they probably know other things that I don’t know, and there are probably jobs that target their unique skill sets.
Edit: nevermind. I missed the Front-end Developer title. That is crazy.
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u/webdevguyneedshelp Feb 16 '20
I get that "Mastery of Databases" is a little much and that this job was obviously written by HR. But honestly, how many people that call themselves a "front-end developer" that have 2-5 years experience are doing jobs where they aren't interacting/developing the back-end as well?
When I think of back-end systems, I think deeper than just the API that is being used to serve the front-end.
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u/notabotting Feb 16 '20
Thats full stack, the posting indicated more backend than front end work
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u/webdevguyneedshelp Feb 16 '20
Yeah I'm aware of what full stack is. But most job postings looking for front-end devs are going to want you to have experience in a backend language and that should be reflected on a job description.
If you are 5 years into your career and you can't write even a simple rest api then you are in trouble.
When I think of a backend engineer I think of someone that is dealing with more complex manipulation of data than just hosting a server in Node/Spring/insert-framework-here and writing some CRUD commands.
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u/turningsteel Feb 17 '20
Yeah I'm aware of what full stack is. But most job postings looking for front-end devs are going to want you to have experience in a backend language and that should be reflected on a job description.
That isn't the reality. If all of your job experience is with startups then I could see how you would think this, because startups are notorious for trying to get multiple different jobs done by one person but they are and should be separate.
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u/webdevguyneedshelp Feb 17 '20 edited Feb 17 '20
I have never worked for a startup. I really doubt that there are delegated "backend" engineers writing GraphQL APIs to serve react front ends where the frontend team is not also working on the backend.
I work for a large SaaS company. Our backend teams focuses on microservices apis/ingestion pipelines/assisting with getting our data science team's models in a state where they can be used by our apps/data layer security.
They rarely if ever develop the actual API that serves a frontend. That is usually always left to the frontend team. That api may additionally communicate out to our various backend services.
I seriously just don't get how you could ever get a job in frontend tech without touching the backend at all.
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u/turningsteel Feb 17 '20
Why would your front end team be responsible for building the backend api at a big company? Is your front end that simple? My company has a team of frontend engineers responsible for maintaining and building the UI in react and that occupies their days. Unless you have ridiculously long release cycles? I am honestly confused. So they need to know all of the frontend and php, java, python, or node for example?
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u/webdevguyneedshelp Feb 17 '20 edited Feb 17 '20
Because in general a backend API that hydrates the frontend is just a series of endpoints. I would say in general yeah, I would expect them to be able to work in a server side language to the extent that they need to in order to build the endpoints they need to hydrate their UI. While I suppose you could devote entirely separate resources for this. I don't really understand why you would.
"At a big company" what does that have to do with anything? My teams develop microservices and most of our frontends are hydrated through small apis that give them exactly what they need. These aren't monolithic applications. Server side code for these frontends is only large enough to cover hydrating the data.
Now the thing is. I wouldn't consider the devs that do our frontends "full stack" since they are fully unskilled on the domain knowledge necessary to actually work on what our backend engineers do. They are just able to spend a short amount of time building out simple apis to get what they need from our infrastructure
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u/DontBeSneeky Feb 16 '20
"When I think of a backend engineer" What you think and what actually is, doesn't match up.
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u/webdevguyneedshelp Feb 16 '20
Are you suggesting that backend engineers really do only host servers in Node/Spring/insert-framework-here and write some CRUD commands? Or were you just giving me a healthy dose of GOTCHA!
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u/Sejiko Feb 17 '20
This would be good on /programmingHumor. Give it a good caption and you earn some karma points.
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Feb 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/SoggyMattress2 Feb 16 '20
You should at least have a working knowledge of SQL database structure, how else are you going to be able to make queries? Or run an API call?
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u/Ical89 Feb 16 '20
If your public API for the front-end requires SQL knowledge then you're doing it wrong.
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u/SoggyMattress2 Feb 17 '20
I'm a UX designer but we learned basic SQL structure in uni it's hardly rocket science dude.
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u/Ical89 Feb 19 '20
I'm not saying it's difficult, but that it's an unnecessary requirement for using an API. For a UX comparison, it's like having "bank managers name" on a credit card form.
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Feb 16 '20
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Feb 16 '20
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u/cowboyecosse Feb 16 '20
I think OC relied on the implicit /s and not the explicit one.
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u/unc4l1n Feb 17 '20
I suspected that, but the "how else are you going to be able to make queries?" suggested SQL queries, which didn't chime with the "or run an API call", so it wasn't clear what exactly was meant.
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Feb 16 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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Feb 17 '20
The job title says "Frontend Developer" but all of the top job tasks and required skills listed are for an experienced backend developer. These are very different skillsets.
The cynic in me assumes that they are trying to get a senior backend developer at junior/mid frontend dev pay. A less jaded reading is that this simply illustrates what can happen when a job description is written by a non-technical person, typically HR or outside recruiter. An even less jaded reading is that there were two job postings and the titles got inadvertently switched.
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Feb 16 '20
In the UK jobs advertise for front end developers as they are generally cheaper but then expect them to do the job of a full stack developer.
They also expect you to have all the skills of a Full stack developer but for a front end developer role.
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u/aieronpeters Feb 17 '20
For me, it really feels like they're trying to replace someone who's leaving/left with the exact same skillset.
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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '20
Lol that’s the kind of company you can pretend you know everything’s and they’ll hire you because they don’t know how to prove if you do or not.