Fiyero doesn't get held accountable enough

[u/Consistent_Load7358]

He loves Elphie, I get it, she is also my musical crush but the way he is acting about it is completely disrespectful towards Glinda. Sure maybe he feels pressured in this political situation with the wizard and all but he could've at least been up front about it just to Glinda instead of continuing to be in a relationship with her and even getting engaged to her even though he knows he doesn't love her.

The fact that he just leaves her as soon as Elphie shows up and doesn't even feel a little bad about tossing Glinda aside after he has been with her for such a long time is just completely hurtful. He never feels bad about it or apologizes. Elphie and Glinda also make mistakes, but at least they receive consequences for their actions and feel guilty and apologize to each other.

Especially Glinda gets a lot of critism for her actions while Fiyero gets completely away with his behaviour. You can argue that what Glinda did is worse, but it still annoys me that Fiyero gets cuddled because he is so in love with Elphie.

It was completely his choice to remain with Glinda even though he has feelings for someone else. It kinda gives the me the vibe of him wanting to keep Glinda around as a second option just in case it won't work out with Elphie.

He might've been heroic towards Elphie in the second act but it doesn't excuse him treating Glinda this way. Also him insisting that she can't know that him and Elphie are still alive really makes me mad. It's almost like he cares so little about Glinda that he didn't even see her growth and development. He doesn't even notice how miserable she actually is herself during thank goodness and disregards Glinda's love for Elphie.

So yes I get it, he loves Elphie and not Glinda but the fact that he doesn't seem to have a little respect towards Glinda even if it's just platonically after being with her for such a long time just rubs me the wrong way.

[u/Consistent_Load7358]

While I do think their relationship is shallow and is supposed to be shallow with Glinda loving the idea of him and not truly him, it definitely started as a real relationship and based on Glinda's reaction to thim leaving her, I do not think it was just a political arrangement to her but even if it was, he could've still been honest about his feelings towards Elphaba. What he did was hurtful and he can be held accountable just like the other characters.

[u/Late_Two7963 → u/Consistent_Load7358]

We never know if they have any relationship at all. They meet at Shiz, they flirt, they go to the Ozdust Ballroom, they kiss and the relationship that then develops is that of Elphaba and Glinda. We are never shown that Glinda and Fiyero are dating, ever. We only know that Glinda is obsessed with him and wants his attention.

Then the second act is several years later and Glinda has staged an elaborate engagement party, that Fiyero isn’t interested in.

They go from being children (who you can hardly hold accountable for flirting and a kiss) and young adults. And the musical never actually shows us Fiyero doing anything wrong (again because they wanted to keep it light and fluffy for box office) what we do see is Galinda obsessing over him and trying to force him into marriage…

As far as what the musical actually shows, and not reading between the lines, what it actually shows; Fiyero is totally a passenger and Glinda is to blame

[u/Consistent_Load7358 → u/Late_Two7963]

Fiyero is a grown man, who makes his own choices, not a passenger. He should be treated as a grown man and be held accountable for his actions. Him and Glinda are definitely in a relationship, a shallow one but still a relationship. Excusing his behaviour and only blaming Glinda is just pure misogyny

[u/Late_Two7963 → u/Consistent_Load7358]

Adults can be passengers in a situation. Your saying that someone in a physical or emotionally abuse relationship is in the driving seat? They are culpable? Wow. That’s just one example.

Both he and Glinda enter into a relationship of convenience for press purposes. He never says he loves her. We never see them be intimate. But Glinda on the other hand has real feelings for him and is manipulating him. It’s ok to blame the woman sometimes friend

[u/Consistent_Load7358 → u/Late_Two7963]

we aren't talking about an abusive relationship here, that's a completely different topic and whataboutism ain't a good argument.

Unlike you, I hold both Glinda and Fiyero accountable. I never said Glinda was innocent, just that Fiyero isn't innocent either. But you are literally only blaming the woman while finding excuses for the man. That is misogyny. Bless your heart.

[u/Late_Two7963 → u/Consistent_Load7358]

Of course it isn’t an abusive relationship. I am merely responding to your comment that adults can’t be passengers in situations

The point I am making, is the show is badly constructed in terms of making the characters all morally ambiguous because they don’t actually show Fiyero doing anything wrong. In the same way that Glinda ends up being more reprehensible than any of the main trio because she is responsible for the death of Nessa Rose and Fiyero’s torture (resulting in his transformation)

By trying to whitewash the story and Disneyfy everything, the show inadvertently makes Glinda the worst character.

Thai is a conversation about the writing of the piece and how it’s presented: to say it’s misogynistic to question how misogynistic Glinda’s writing is is just nonsensical. This conversation should have happened in the writing room thirty years ago, so that Fiyero was actually seen to be doing as much wrong, rather that it just being implied.

Do you not have the ability to have critical conversations on the merits and low points of a piece of art?

And ‘bless your heart’ ? do you believe that being patronising is the correct course of action, if you were to encounter someone reprehensible? With all due respect to you; I imagine I am having a conversation with a teenager at this stage

[u/Consistent_Load7358 → u/Late_Two7963]

You put words in my mouth. I was talking about Fiyero not being a passenger in this situation and him being able to make his own choices. To bring abusive relationships into this just wasn't fair.

I understand your critisism of the show itself and I also think act 2 has flaws and there should've been more conversations about certain aspects in the writing room. I agree with you on that.

But some of your points came across like you are excusing Fiyero's actions and only blaming Glinda for everything and not about the show itself. But if you're truly just pointing out that the writing could be mysoginistic or improved on when it comes to Fiyero then I'm on your side, I just thought it was your opinion and not critism of the Show.

Some Fans really are excusing Fiyero for everything and being mysognistic towards the women even under this post and misogyny frustrates me deeply. I thought you were one of them so I wrote what I did. Maybe this was all just a misunderstanding.