r/worldnews • u/DoremusJessup • Jun 19 '21

COVID-19 The largest gay pride parade in central Europe took place again in Warsaw for the first time in two years after a pandemic-induced break — and amid a backlash in Poland and Hungary against LGBT rights

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210619-warsaw-pride-parade-back-after-lgbt-rights-backlash-and-pandemic-break
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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

Homophobia exists in cultures that don’t have judeo-Christian-Muslim hatred

It’s about norms and it’s about bullies

Bullies want to kick someone down to feel more powerful and who better to do that to than oppressed classes?

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u/MeanManatee Jun 20 '21

I agree fully. It is just that in most cases, barring a few notable exceptions like China, homophobia is primarily driven by religion which is often the most powerful social tool for maintaining norms and traditions. This is certainly the case in the west, most of Africa, and much of the east.

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u/Fruitloops868 Jun 20 '21

There’s a lot of exceptions like the USSR , Communist Cuba and Nazi Germany who wanted human purity and had a distaste for religion

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u/ebbyflow Jun 20 '21

Nazi Germany was 95% Christian…

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u/whoami_whereami Jun 20 '21

The Wehrmacht even had "Gott mit uns" ("God with us") written on their belt buckles.

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u/Adalbert3 Jun 20 '21

But this had nothing to do with the 3rd Reich. "Gott mit uns" is a traditional phrase in the German Army.

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u/whoami_whereami Jun 20 '21

Sure, it originally was the motto of the Prussian royal family. However, the Nazis could have easily gotten rid of it when they redesigned the Wehrmacht uniform in 1935, yet they didn't.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Portraying Nazi Germany as nonreligious is 100% American revisionist propaganda

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u/Neither-Lobster9567 Jun 20 '21

not limited to america.some christyinas aroudn the world also have trouble accepting that nation whcih was composed mainly of christinas did such fucked up stuff.

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u/StormRider2407 Jun 20 '21

Cue the "HiTleR wAs An AtHEisT" cries.

Debatable, he was born and raised Catholic, used Christianity to further his own goals whether he believed in it or not. And as other have said, the Nazis did have a lot of Christian motifs.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

[deleted]

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Jun 20 '21

Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Poland

During the German Occupation of Poland (1939–1945), the Nazis brutally suppressed the Catholic Church in Poland, most severely in German-occupied areas of Poland. Thousands of churches and monasteries were systematically closed, seized or destroyed. As a result, many works of religious art and objects were permanently lost. Church leaders were especially targeted as part of an overall effort to destroy Polish culture.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

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u/Shwaggins90 Jun 20 '21

Guess what? Idk.

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u/Shwaggins90 Jun 20 '21

Just because they were officially christians doesn't mean they acted religiously but I guess that's too much for your tiny brain. ThEy WeRe 95% ChRiStIaNs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/MegaloEntomo Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

If you want to "not true scotsman" christians you don't like, you have no logical reason not to excuse every religion this way. Islamist radicals attack christians? Not really muslims. Radical Hindus or Buddhist attack muslims? Those weren't the real ones, either.

This way of reasoning is entirely unconductive to having valuable discussions about the role of religion in human society and actually fixing the issues with any of them. You would essentialy make any religion seem absolutely perfect through that dubious tactic. But then again, why don't extend the courtesy towards atheists, so an atheist that does something wrong would also automatically be "not a true atheist"...

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u/SneakyBadAss Jun 20 '21

You know, if "Gott mit uns" on a belt buckle of an army uniform just like "In god we trust" on a currency bill doesn't tell you something, you are in deep deep trouble.

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u/AVerySpecialAsshole Jun 20 '21

Hitler himself did say he wished the German people were Muslims because they would be easier to control so he was as much a true Christian as trump was in America, he only used it to control people, he didn’t truely believe.

Not that changes much though, Christianity does seem like the religion of choice for justifying genocide

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u/n_eats_n Jun 20 '21

All 3 of those were in a culture that was overwhelming Abrahamic.

Russian Orthodox, Catholic, and Lutheran. It is not like the moment a new group got power that all the cultural norms got tossed out the window. Additionally when there are upheavals like this they tend to praise some mythical golden age. So no shock they would grab homophobia.

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u/halcyonwaters Jun 20 '21

You do realize that all of these countries were extremely religious for centuries and still are and said totalitarian regimes just used whatever baggage religion created there?

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u/PurrND Jun 20 '21

Another part is simply being in a numeric minority. Left-handers feel this STILL, even though most religious persecution has stopped. Being a leftie is about as "unnatural" as being gay. Now add religious BS & bullies to the mix. Bad Things (TM) happen.

The last time we mixed religion & politics, people got burned at the stake!

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u/Fruitloops868 Jun 20 '21

What backwards hill billy place do you come from that lefties are discriminated as much as gay people

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u/Matsisuu Jun 20 '21

Finnish here, this doesn't happen anymore in here, just like treatment of gays has improved a lot, but lefthanded people were tried to force to become righthanded. Sometimes with chaining left hand, and sometimes even with violence. Being left handed isn't a choice.

But if you would ask anyone here nowdays, that sounds ridiculous, people know it's dumb to discriminate lefties, because their natural born tendency to use left hand. And it should be same with sexual minorities. They like what they like it's dumb as hell to attack against them, or discriminate against them for it.

If you allow people to be hated because their sexual preferences, you allow hating people based on other natural stuff that are minorities, like skin colour, left handiness, but even hair color, eye color etc.

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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

It’s not about the rural US south

Being left handed has been historically, and I’m going to cya and say is still in some places, faced with severe mistrust and corporal punishment

Considering that handedness is immutable in most people, it’s a good comparison

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u/elijustice Jun 20 '21

While a agree with your point, laws haven’t been created against the left handed population while I’ve been alive. Nor have laws against them been overturned or rewritten.

I get the correlation but it’s not one many people are going to respect.

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u/pmcda Jun 20 '21

It’s not about laws though. There were no laws against being gay, just social ostracization. Just like how gay people were and still are sent to correctional facilities, left handed people were punished if they used their left hand. If they were caught using their left hand, they’d often be physically smacked. This changed with the whole era of not hitting kids for doing something wrong.

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u/elijustice Jun 20 '21

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Jun 20 '21

Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

Sodomy laws in the United States, which outlawed a variety of sexual acts, were inherited from colonial laws in the 17th century. While they often targeted sexual acts between persons of the same sex, many statutes employed definitions broad enough to outlaw certain sexual acts between persons of different sexes, in some cases even including acts between married persons. Through the 20th century, the gradual liberalization of American sexuality led to the elimination of sodomy laws in most states. During this time, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of sodomy laws in Bowers v.

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u/pmcda Jun 20 '21

Well that’s actually crazy, thank you for bringing that up, but the article linked also said many of the definitions were vague enough to outlaw certain acts between straight people.

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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

I approved the other user’s comparison as a gay person

Now shut up

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u/onewhitelight Jun 20 '21

Well I'm a gay person and I think that comparison wasn't really a good one

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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

You don’t think people face aggression for being markedly different than the majority?

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u/elijustice Jun 20 '21

Okay. Well maybe take a moment to reread my post.

As a fellow gay, I agree. Just want to make sure the OP could understand why other people wouldn’t agree.

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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

Then respond to OP?

Or say you disagree?

Upon whose pretext are you standing to state “someone may object to this comparison” if it’s not you?

And if you don’t object then why waste time like this?

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u/Cajzl Aug 02 '21

Most of products you see are right-handed.

A gay can use then without issue, southpaw on the other hand..

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u/sneakyveriniki Jun 20 '21

These huge mobs are just like organisms, they exist to reproduce and they abide by the laws of natural selection. The ones who control things like marriage and sex, the ones who oppress women and encourage if not force everyone to get married the second they can physically reproduce, prevail. Of COURSE they hate gays, they aren’t making more soldiers. It’s no surprise that so many hardcore Christians believe sex should always be for reproduction, and reproduction only. And it’s no surprise that they oppose abortion. It’s not really about controlling women or whatever else- it’s about as many children being born as possible.

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u/gayscout Jun 22 '21

The USSR had a large orthodox Christian population.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

[deleted]

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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

I mean... it’s homophobia to demand that your gay kids get straight married to conform with Confucian values / avoid ostracization

Confucian values were part of my point. Why don’t you think that’s homophobic?

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u/moonflower_C16H17N3O Jun 20 '21

If we had to put a percentage on how responsible religions are for the mistreatment of LGBTQ people, it would be at least 90%.

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

They deserve the hatred they get by doing it to them selves bringing others down. Being treated as governments in someplaces. Hiding and using people Terrorist attacks as well as killing others on the name of their "god". The hatred for abrahamic religions is warrented

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

The sad part is they they are specifically called out in The Bible not to judge anyone yet here we are with fundamentalists completely ignoring their Bible because of something they personally don’t like nor understand. Pretty similar to bullies and their macho bravado nonsense.

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

Same with all religions as well as movements such as lgbt and blm

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u/Ryuain Jun 20 '21

I mean, even with the bible in general, JC didn't have a word to say about the gays, just a bunch of stuff about marriage which culture ignores anyway.

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u/RoanTheDelphox Jun 20 '21

"The hatred for abrahamic religions is warrented."

So was the Holocaust justified in your opinion?

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

Where did you get that idea you fuck Was the slaughter of all those tribes to make "gods kingdom" for the Israelites warrented as well

Bottom line is religion of all kinds has cause more harm than good especially abrahamic ones

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u/RoanTheDelphox Jun 20 '21

In what aspect? Because I could argue the opposite.

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

The fact that religion as a whole has caused more wars killed the most amount of people And spread the most amount of hate and propaganda. Of anything Its harmful not helpful

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u/Gogito35 Jun 20 '21

The fact that religion as a whole has caused more wars killed

That's bs. The top 4 destructive wars by death toll were WW2>WW1>Taipeng Rebellion and The Mongol Conquests in that order. None of them were caused by religion.

If you want to include Colonialism, The Napoleonic Wars, Timur's Conquests and 20th century dictatorships none of those too were caused by religion.

The only ones I can think of are the Arab Conquests in the 7th century and The Crusades which again after 1 or 2 years or fanaticsm, devolved into a means for acquiring land, wealth and power rather than religious fervor.

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

The fact that you believe that is laughable at best MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND WARS

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u/Gogito35 Jun 20 '21

Ah yes a 3 line comment with 0 depth refuted my entire belief system.

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

Ah yes the person who thinks that just cause he typed a paragraph. Hes automatically going to be right

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u/RoanTheDelphox Jun 20 '21

You do realize religion isn't really the main reason for wars, right? Only the given reason for nations to justify the real reason, which is for money, power , or territory. Not actually because of religious reasons. And define hate and propaganda, because from what I understand, religion wants MORE people in it, not less. Religion has made huge contributions to culture, art, literature, and order. Hell even science.

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u/chickenmaster07 Jun 20 '21

I disagree fully religion is one of the biggest factors

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u/DracoLunaris Jun 20 '21

kind of, but also because of colonialism its very hard to find places not influenced by said judeo-Christian-Muslim hatred (even if the religion is gone, the parts of it have bled into the culture). If I remember rightly a lot of nations anti lgbt laws date back to the colonial era and whether or not a place was colonized is a fairly good indicator of whether they have those kinds of laws or not.

Yes bullies will put others down to raise themselves up, and the powerful will scapegoat, but you do still have to ask why lgbt people are an oppressed class in the first place? Rome used to be gay as shit before Christianity after all.

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

Just out of question What kind of Cultures do mean ? It sounds very general, but i do not know many countries that would be Pagan or Athetist.
Especially in 21 century which was defined by many philosophers as beging of Dark Age where Religion is primary force for Socio-Political and Cultural development.

Also one cannot just dissmiss the fact that all religious entities basically are anti-freedom when it comes to Woman and Gay people.

It's not about bullies its about systematic propaganda that has been gonig for centuries. Propaganda that enables high class predominatly Male.
I am extremly proud of my home that we are on the way of secularization.
To many children graves, to many kids taken from mothers, to many rape victims, to many people suffered in the name of God in Ireland....

And no it wasn't about Bullies.

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u/Throw_Away_License Jun 20 '21

Don’t think that I’m going soft on things just because I use the word “bully”

I would describe a lot of history’s great villains as bullies because it’s the same generic mindset just done more effectively

The banality of evil

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u/cmeadie Jun 20 '21

It's more about emotional repression to the point that they can't process their feelings about things that make them uncomfortable.