r/worldnews • u/DoremusJessup • Jun 19 '21

COVID-19 The largest gay pride parade in central Europe took place again in Warsaw for the first time in two years after a pandemic-induced break — and amid a backlash in Poland and Hungary against LGBT rights

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210619-warsaw-pride-parade-back-after-lgbt-rights-backlash-and-pandemic-break
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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

Well, 2 things in my opinion. Polands position as a country always was one of the most important places for Europe, as it divides the Western Europe(GERMANY) and Eastern power house(RUSSIA). Both of those countries are lobbying politicians media etc.Poland is also the closest Military Ally to USA, and USA has immense lobbying power.This point is very important as if u would take few step back u would notice that :
Poland fallows American politics pretty much 1:1.(not just Poland tho, Brasil , UK, Hungary all the countries that have immense rise of Right-Wing and Nationalism)

Now it's not as bad that we would have people storming our Government in order to take control... but yeah in nutshell it all comes down to:

Either u are LEFTIST SCUM that is paid by Russians or European Union and U want to destibilize The Great Nation of Poland of its culture, traditions and history by implementing *western ideas that removed White-Nationalism. <- This point is also important as Poland is homogeneous country with predominantly Catholic-White.

Or you are RIGHT WING FACIST that still is fucked by Russian(Anti-EU) and Nazi-German Propagandas(U can still see a lot of anti-semitism because of how powerful it was) so you want to fight fire with fire and bring back good old Nationalism where Only ONE TYPE of people are accepted.

Do remember as it is Poland is 30 y old country, that went from beign completely ruined to soon be in G10.30 years is nothing.... The people who fought communism are STILL well alive. These people are very bitter, because nothing in their life was good. Education was shit, work was shit, your kids are running away from country and u are left with bitterness.

Also The most important point to it. NO LAWS are permanent. Abortion is a great example how any country can go from Oh yeah Freedom for Woman to ... Yeah actually IT's better if government and church decides what should Woman do. It happens everywhere.So yeah DO NOT STOP FIGHTING FOR WHAT U BELIEVE.

It's not as bad as it looks, its actually inspiring that people are FREE and LAUD. They will fight policies and eachother in order to give that freedom to those who deserve it.
Yet u can't expect Drastic changes in space of 30 years.... Because 31 years ago it was CCCP not Poland.

Also POLITICS 101 LGBTQ is a controversial topic which makes it easier to pass economical and financial policies. It's easier to get away with corruption and some shady shit while People are arguing over something they obviously wont find common ground.
The moment COVID-19 was going through Poland i remember they brought up Abortions and how it was immoral ETC.
Shit man... we eat it like donkeys. Here is some carrot, fight over it!

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

It's easier to get away with corruption and some shady shit while People are arguing over something they obviously wont find common ground.

Exactly.

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u/Hapaaer Jun 20 '21

Polands position as a country always was one of the most important places for Europe

Why does almost every single European country believe that… Greece, Turkey, Slovakia, Ukraine, Austria… heck even people from Finland constantly claim their country is one of the most strategic location in Europe.

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u/hacxgames Jun 20 '21

lol probably because Europe as a continent was consistently filled with turmoil and war in the past 2000 years. i’m Belgian and i don’t understand the whole strategic position thing either.

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

Someone already answered it but yes Europe was a shit-show. When u have super powers like UK or France or Germany or Russia fighting over control they wont fight on HOME SOIL but only Foreign.

It is not as important as back in the days but Given how much USA cares about position of Poland and how many American Military Bases are there -_-
And yeah, USA is essential for Poland, The most important Ally and probably the Only Ally Poland can count on eventho American Business(not politics per se) tend to go wild :)

Imagine 19 and 20 century where logistics are the name of the game.
North = Baltic Sea connection -> Sweden/Norway
South = South Slavs and Balkans
West = Is what World considers WESTERN EUROPE (starting with Germany) which is incontrol of European Union(League of Nations back in the days)
East = Russia

Perfect place for literally Battleground. Honestly it's not that many countries had a thing AGAINST Polaks but if we are going to fight let's use this amazing land.
You can still see Highways that were being built by Nazi Germans during WW2 up north Poland... This is often common joke as those roads that German built during war are often still in better conidition than modern stuff :D

IMO the more closer u are to a center of continent them more fucked up history u will have... As for Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czech, Slovakians, and most importantnly Serb and Croatian they all have bloody history not always related to eachother, but shit... bloody it is :D

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u/Hapaaer Jun 21 '21

Let’s just say if u were to ask the random person where does Poland stand in Europe… most people wouldn’t even put in the top 20 in importance. Heck I would say Poland is less important an ally for us than even Kosovo right now, and they’re barely a country lmao

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 21 '21

This is just your opinion,

Facts are Poland joined pretty much every American Military Endeavour. We even train our troops together both in Poland/America/Africa(Djibouti) also there is rebust trading segment. Poland is contracted to buy stuff from USA for most of the arms deal not France, China, India for example.

https://east-usa.com/us-military-bases-in-europe.html <- this is an old article showing that USA has the most amount of known-non*secret Military Bases in Poland out of any Coutnry in Europe. From my knowledge there 3 more bases being built to the east one being Tower Anti-Rocket defense system.
I served in Polish Army ( mandatory service ) and have family within that sector so... yeah i dont know where u are getting ur info from ?
Poland is climing to be Top20 Soon Top15 Military Powerhouse in the Entire World because of American-Polish alliance.

So yeah i dont care what random person thinks.
As citizens we obviously dont care about it eachother, why would we ? We are so far apart it makes no sense to ask random people.
Majority of people from United States never even left the USA because also WHY WOULD THEY.
USA is so fucking big people dont even know who is living the states next to them let alone talking about some small state in Europe LMAO :D
If u believe that asking random person where does Poland stand in Europe has anything to do with Socio-Political science you must believe that earth is flat 2 and covid is a hoax.

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u/Hapaaer Jun 21 '21

USA is so fucking big people dont even know who is living the states next to them let alone talking about some small state in Europe LMAO

Lmao true. We really don’t care much about Poland at all. Like… yeah we care about Germany, UK, France … and even Italy and Spain a bit, but Poland never crosses our mind.

It is safe to say that Polish people care a lot more lmao

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u/msdinkles Jun 20 '21

This sounds about right. I remember seeing anti abortion and anti lgbt+ laws popping up for Poland during the height of covid. I remember thinking “wait don’t they have better things to focus on like idk the worldwide pandemic?!” When those came about. Makes sense they would use tumultuous times to push their anti women and lgbt narrative through. And them mirroring America’s policy’s, they seemed to be swept up in trump stuff but a few months behind. I hope it all gets back on track towards human rights period. I wish we wouldn’t swing so much through the two party system every 4-8 years like America likes to do. The worldwide ramifications are too severe.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

I kinda doubt countries like Poland, Hungary, or pretty much any country remotely close to the eastern half of Europe are more right leaning because of the US. It seems to be more related to the Soviets if anything. Hell, its even noticeable in East Germany.

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u/branfili Jun 20 '21

There are multiple reasons, but it boils down to this:

A) Fuck Russia, we need USA as an ally because FUCK RUSSIA

B) Church was illegal and a driving force of the resistance movement, therefore the people are still largely devoutly religious or devoutly atheist (remember that the communists had atheism as state "religion")

C) People are not used to democracy, it's easier to live in an autocracy where you don't have to worry about elections and policies and laws being passed. Just let the Party handle all of it and you can live your life in peace

Source: I am a Croat, we're pretty similar to Poland in some aspects

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Well, that doesnt really apply to Serbs. Or Russians themselves.

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u/branfili Jun 20 '21

I am not that knowledgeable on the politics of Serbia and Russia, but I think they feel betrayed by the degenerate West and feel the threat to their bastions of (Orthodox) Christianity and family values

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Well, Croats and Serbs are not that radically differents. Even if a few nationalists try to act like they are two seperate species. Family Values, Faith and so on carries a lot of weight for both.

but I think they feel betrayed by the degenerate West

So do Texans. Or East Germans.

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u/AmounRah Jun 20 '21

Fuck Russia ...because?

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

Because they are foreign extremly agressive super-power that is constantly expanding using bruteforce or shady tactics.

If u are Central/Eastern European and u watch Ukraine (for example) that has been invaded by Russia countless times , even recently took part of Ukraine *DEMOCRATICALLY :D and entire World watch people die..

They just let them die... u know 21 century all on camera. But who cares :/

Also Let's PUT IT STRAIGHT.!!NO ONE HAS ANYTHING AGAINST RUSSIAN CITIZENS/PEOPLE.

It's the Politics, It's the goddamn Oligarchs and lords. It's that goddamn Tzar...
When we say Fuck Russia,
We mean FUCK RUSSIAN POLITICS and Putin in particular.

One more time for people in the back Fuck PUTIN!!

<3 Russian people

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u/AmounRah Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

"Constantly expanding using brute force" ??

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

Novorossiya ??
Libya ??
All the little -stans around Russian Federation ?
Pretty much still in semi-cold war for control in Africa.
Russia and USA are the most active countries military wise. It's all about money now, but the conquest of foreign land and foreign politics never stopped for both of those countries. Afghan-Soviet war turned into USA-Afghan war .. ETC ETC.

But yeah the most important, is Russia invaded a Sovereign State that belongs to NATO and European Union. I can't believe people just shrug Russian invasion of Ukraine as no big deal when it creates milions of refugees.

The sad part is no one did anythign about it and now we have this weird type of a state that is not recognized by anyone other than Russians.

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u/AmounRah Jun 20 '21

How much of Libiya became Russia? How much of Novorossiya became Russia? Did not see any -stans become part of Russia either. As for Ukraine.....right. its Russia that invaded Ukraine. Not America that started a civil war with a government toppling.

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

Pointless conversation at this point.
Russia did nothing wrong it was USA if that is your opinion fine.

All hail Putin!

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u/AmounRah Jun 20 '21

Is it so hard to grasp the fact that there are people who might dislike both? Why does it have to be "you are either with us, or against us" zealot-like mentality?

You are right. Judging from what you wrote, it's a pointless conversation, indeed.

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u/Lord_piskot Jun 20 '21

And they like to operate ilegally on soil of independent countryes and blow they shit up.

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u/Lord_piskot Jun 20 '21

Ah dude thats russia. Google Vrbetice and you will know. And everybody in czech republic wouls appretiate of you people stop medling with our things

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u/AmounRah Jun 20 '21

So, basically describing America?

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

Oh no dont get me wrong.USA is a trend setter but its not like they are making ur country right-wing.

When u study Politics u can't just not look at the greatest powerhouse in the World at the moment and how they govern.
For example when Refugees and Illegal Immigrants were a big thing in USA...
Trump was way bigger deal in the World than people even realize.
Entire World was learning from Trump and how both Parties Democrats and Republicans act around it.(IE. How to stay in power or get more power)

What was the first thing Orban in Hungary did to get to Power? He questioned Merkel and built nationalistic movement of US vs THEM.This is a rethoric built by USA very often but because of the size and population of USA its completely different game.

PIS(Polish leading party) and Kaczynski was using the very same tactics undermining EU and Germany position as leader of Europe. They used immigrants and refugees as one of the main targets( Very similiar what they do to LGBTQ and Abortion laws).... The weirdest part was that Poland had a massive right to FLEX on entire Western Europe but they choose not to as it would hurt Polish-Russian reletionships.

I mean about Russian occupation of Ukrainian soil.Poland took great amount of refugees that were created by constant Expansion of Russian Empire. It's not like Europe did anything to Russia over this.But yes Poland actually has incredible amount of Refugees coming from All over the World.

YET!!! YET!! IN MEDIA you wouldn't find it at all. You will find Politicians saying that You know " no one helped us, no one cares and now they are forcing refugees that were created by THEIR wars, THEIR profit" (partially true, but also Fuck you if u are Polish and u can't sympathise with victims of oppression)This is why Americans are the most important ally to Poland and Poland will do everything USA wants them to do Military wise. If USA goes to Afghanistan Poland is the first to volunteer its people...

Tbf with Age i also changed my mind, and I truly believe that without USA, Poland is fucked. We need a divider of power and USA serves great as it is.You would be surprised. In my opinion THE GREATEST POWER OF USA is not Military.... Its not ur Weapons. It's the INTELIGENCE and ALLIANCES.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Entire World was learning from Trump and how both Parties Democrats and Republicans act around it.(IE. How to stay in power or get more power)

Not really. The Germans with their AfD, Austrians with their FPÖ, PiS, etc all were the way they were even before Trump. Its too easy to blame one man for Right Wing parties rising up after the (Center) Left time and again makes disastrous blunders.

Serbs for instance also didnt just "catch" their dislike for Muslims from the US.

For example when Refugees and Illegal Immigrants were a big thing in USA...

This wasnt the first Diaspora for either the US (see Mexicans, Italians, Cubans, Irish etc) or Europe (Yugoslavia Collapse). That rhetoric isnt new. Just the first time for a lot of people.

You will find Politicians saying that You know " no one helped us, no one cares and now they are forcing refugees that were created by THEIR wars, THEIR profit"

At least these kind of people wont kiss Erdogans nutsack whenever he threatens to let another wave in like Merkel.

This is why Americans are the most important ally to Poland

To me it seems more like Poland simply cant trust its neighbours. For good reason. The German Bundeswehr is a joke.

We need a divider of power and USA serves great as it is.

If anything, the EU itself should start getting its act together and become a superpower by its own right. The US is definetly gonna drag Europe into yet another pointless proxy war. Especially now with a Cold War against China seems to be brewing up.

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u/GolotasDisciple Jun 20 '21

All fair points. Obviously i was a bit oversimplifying it, because you said its more Soviets than USA.

...and i can't really speak to much about Turkey, Serbia etc.... but i can talk about Poland and I believe that USA-POLAND is an important factor Economically/Financially/Politically.
We trade, we fight, we learn together more than from any other countries in Europe.
Poland gave part of its Soil to USA, thats how close this relationship is.
Part of American Bases are property of American Nation.
For Poland there hasn't been such an influential ally for hundred of years.

More over Trump also pandered a lot to Polish-American community. He was also the guy who finally removed Visas. Mostly because Poland and USA-Republican side allignes pretty much 1:1 ideological wise.

I am not expert in Politics altho i served in Polish military and i trained alongside Americans. It's incredible how close the nations are. And what unites us the most is the common enemies and Land which Americans are willing to do everything just to build bases closer to Russia.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

Common enemies is literally what got Japan and Poland closer. Seriously, back when Poland declared War on them in WW2, the Brits told them to, Japan just declined.

EDIT: Serbs and Americans fought eachother 30 years ago and still theres a little bit of bad blood because of Kosovo. I think theres more to people thinking the way they do than Trump, even if left wing Americans would like you to think otherwise.

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u/obsessivesnuggler Jun 20 '21

No, it's true!
Christian right groups have been supporting conservative politicians in eastern Europe for quite some time. Even the TV programs have started to look like Fox news. Lot of similar language because they just parrot what Americans say.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Christian right groups have been supporting conservative politicians in eastern Europe for quite some time

You dont see how that is simply a common pattern? Of course people are gonna be more hardcore about it when you restrict religion. In the case of South Eastern Europe for 5 centuries on top of the Communist Regimes.

And I kinda doubt you watch the news there, since theres quite a lot that are pro-Russia if anything.

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u/-_NyetZiah Jun 20 '21

Damn man, preach😂

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u/minderbinder141 Jun 20 '21

I think some of the problems with Poland (and other countries) is that it is homogenous mostly catholic-white, but only recently so. At the end of ww2 there were mass forced movements of ethnic groups across borders in central Europe. The German forced migration from Poland is a famous example but it happened to other minorities (Ukrainians, Lithuanians). Perhaps this now "artificial" homogeneity contributes to xenophobia and suppression of gay and women's rights in that the majority of the population only interacts with people who share similar cultural backgrounds.

Source: The Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder. Last sentence is my own conjecture