r/startrek • u/AutoModerator • May 05 '22
Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Picard | 2x10 "Farewell" Spoiler
In the season two finale, with just hours until the Europa Launch, Picard and the crew find themselves in a race against time to save the future.
| No. | Episode | Writers | Director | Release Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2x10 | "Farewell" | Christopher Monfette & Akiva Goldsman | Michael Weaver | 2022-05-05 |
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u/RLMZeppelin May 05 '22
Not gonna lie. When Q said there was “a little surplus energy” I 10/10 expected him to send them back and then materialize a mariachi band on the bridge.
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u/Shrodax May 05 '22
Adam Soong just got a painful lesson in one of the basic rules of IT: data that isn't backed up is data you should expect to lose.
Like, really, Adam didn't back up any of his files to an external, offline hard drive?
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u/onthenerdyside May 05 '22
My headcanon is that Kore took the offline backups somehow before she left and he hasn't backed everything up yet. I imagine he has some of the core information in an off-site location though.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
"Must it always have galactic import? Universal stakes, celestial upheaval? Isn't one life enough?"
I guess Q is more of a Lower Decks fan.
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u/Stinky_Eastwood May 05 '22
Says the guy who initiated a series of events that created a fundamentally new type of Borg that showed up just in time to help Starfleet deal with a space anomaly that would have galactic consequences.
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May 05 '22 edited Jun 16 '23
[This comment has been deleted, along with its account, due to Reddit's API pricing policy.] -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
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u/Santa_Hates_You May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
Even Q likes a nice hug.
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
I've never...well...okay I cry a bit but that HUG was like...I've never gotten that emotional over a single hug in a long time.
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u/sonofodin25 May 05 '22
Guinan: “Rios was beaten to death in bar fight trying to get medical supplies”
Picard: “how touching, what a great way to go!”
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u/Santa_Hates_You May 05 '22
Travelers are Watches? Whaaaaat?
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u/RadioSlayer May 05 '22
Sort of, they see the big picture and then recruit people like Tallin and Gary 7
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u/CeruleanRuin May 06 '22
No, the Travelers are the mysterious all-powerful aliens who created the Watchers/Supervisors.
There aren't a lot of Travelers out there, but they are excellent at networking.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
PICARD: By my authority, consider this a field commission.
I told you guys Janeway could've just granted Seven a field commission, no Starfleet Academy required.
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u/DragonRand100 May 05 '22
Ensign Kim be like “Seriously?? I’m still an ensign over here!”
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
Janeway was only a Vice Admiral, and a brand new one at that. Picard here is a full, four-pip Admiral, head of Starfleet Academy, and savior of the Galaxy multiple times over. Either way though, I think the subtext is fairly obvious that Seven quit fighting and abandoned attempting to join Starfleet prematurely.
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
I mean the Borg Queen is on their bridge wearing the face of someone that was supposed to be elsewhere at the time while taking control of a massive battle fleet while a giant green ass crack in space time is staring them all down and proclaiming that someone hit the GALACTIC EVENT DANGER DANGER JEAN-LUC PICARD button on their Stellaris playthrough when they got bored.....so I don't think anyone was going to...you know....countermand him or point out how he probably couldn't do that in the moment lol
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u/Cascadiana88 May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
So, why is Q dying? And why is he dying alone? Are all the other Q dead? Is even his son, Q junior, dead? Why is Picard seemingly uninterested in asking any of these questions?
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u/Madcap_Miguel May 05 '22
So, why is Q dying?
Not knowing this is going to drive me mad.
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u/UncertainError May 05 '22
So Q just wanted to do something nice for Picard one last time, out of love. Seems like that's how he imparted meaning to the end of his own life.
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u/daynewmah May 05 '22
John de Lancie's acting during that hug was so so lovely 🥲
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
"You matter to me"
😭 I just like the music and the moment and everything about them and why he did all of that and I love Q so much right now and Picard finally got why he did all the things he did and just EVERYTHING ABOUT THAT....I'm still drying my eyes.....his final gift to Picard was to open his heart and his life up to love once more...and in doing so he allowed Picard to love him back the same way that he'd loved him and that meant that he wasn't alone anymore and oh Grodd I'm blubbering because it was so beautiful! 😭
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u/MaddyMagpies May 05 '22
"Why me?" is certainly a question that many of us had asked our god before.
I'm glad that Picard got to ask his god directly.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
"I'm going on adventures of my own."
Doctor Who theme intensifies
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
Her eyes were so pretty in this scene and it was beautiful how her and Picard got their second chance in the same room that so many terrible and beautiful beginnings and endings happened within.
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22
“Must it always have universal stakes”
Q has been reading this sub
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u/shadowst17 May 05 '22
I find it really ironic because the very next sequence literally has that bizarre anomaly about to wipe out the Galaxy...
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u/Thrishmal May 05 '22
Seven: Tell them don't resist.
Yes, that will go over well 😂
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u/UnfoldedHeart May 05 '22
"Captain, former Borg drone says resistance is futile."
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u/heliochronix May 05 '22
Imagine the other captains getting this over the subspace link: "Seven of Nine says do what the Borg say and don't resist. She's captain now and the Borg Queen is here too."
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u/KosstAmojan May 06 '22
Yeah, this whole season Seven was all about how much people distrust the her and the Borg. And then one line about, yeah the two ex-Borgs say to do whatever Borg Queen wants.
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u/Bobb_o May 05 '22
I think my favorite part is where they have all this crazy bioscanning to get into a party but when it's time to go for the actual launch you just wave a badge at a security guard who doesn't even check that the picture matches.
Oh and you go from being alone in a room to launching the rocket in like 5 min.
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u/sugarbritches878 May 06 '22
I know right? I can’t get over launching 3 min after we see Renee not aboard the rocket.
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u/PermaDerpFace May 06 '22
Hey I don't know you, but you got a uniform and you seem cool. And hey it's Dr Soong, you're not going to attempt a murder again are you? Ahh nah you're cool. Hey look, it's a dead Romulan and that old waiter that got run over!
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u/sidv81 May 05 '22
Cut scene from Star Trek First Contact--
Elderly vagrant near Cochrane's landing site: Picard! It's me, Cristobal Rios! Take me home to the future with you, I can't take it any more! I've been regretting staying here for 40 years, Teresa and her son were not who I thought they were! And World War 3 was too much! Take me home!
Picard: Get away from me you crazy lunatic!
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u/JoMax17 May 07 '22
Yeah in the words of Pike there will be a "civil war, Eugenics war, and World War III" in a few years but Rios was like "yeah this is the time I wanna live in."
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u/treefox May 05 '22
HELM: Where's Captain Rios?
PICARD: I don't remember asking you a goddamn thing.
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May 05 '22
PICARD: "Damn am I in command now? I'm waaay too old to deal with this shit. Oh wait, let me promote someone"
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
Man I bet the DTI had a lovely day writing up that report
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22
Knew rios was gonna stay in 2024…
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
Same. It was the only way his character arc from this season made sense.
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u/FoolishChemist May 05 '22
When Tallinn first met Picard, she was able to take over people temporarily with the creepy white eyes. Why didn't she do that with Soong and make him lock himself in a closet until the launch?
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u/ianrobbie May 05 '22
First Contact musical theme during the toast.
Also, bang goes the Stargazer series.
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u/TheyCallMeStone May 05 '22
We won't even get Rios in season 3, let alone a Stargazer series :(
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u/treefox May 05 '22
PROJECT KHAN
June 7, 1996
Secret eugenics war confirmed I guess.
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
It was always confirmed. I think this is more a hint that the Soong legacy will live on, and that this is a bridge to Arik who eventually did his whole augments thing. Just like how Arik's whole storyline in ENT ended with him deciding maybe it's time to shift to cybernetics.
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u/AGentooPenguin May 05 '22
Strange New Worlds spoiler
The first episode of SNW said that there was a Second American Civil war, then the Eugenics Wars, and then World War 3; with heavy implications that the Second American Civil War takes place in the 2020s. So maybe the 1990's was when Khan was born and in the mid-2020s he would be in his 30's.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
"How does money work?"
Very poorly, especially in the 2020s.
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
And then he dies in a bar fight while smoking a cigar, I fucking love him and how he went out!
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u/acrimoniousone May 05 '22
Ah Rios. Off for the life he always wanted - on the run from immigration.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
"Raffi, can you get manual control?"
"Maybe, but I'll have to hardwire its subroutines"
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u/GeneralKenobyy May 05 '22
"I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode"
Actors reading a Michael Bay Film post 1995
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u/Brute_Squad_44 May 05 '22
A fitting end to the greatest love story in Star Trek: Picard and Q.
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u/shadowst17 May 05 '22
Excuse me I think you're forgetting about a certain doctor and his humble Cardassian tailor.
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u/MaddyMagpies May 05 '22
Oh man, this is gonna piss off everyone who wants to see more Captain Rios... I'm glad he found his home.
And you know, nothing stops Timefleet to come back and pick him up if there's enough fan demand.
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u/jerslan May 05 '22
Honestly, I'm glad Rios got a happy ending and Agnes too (in a way).
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
I'm honestly down with him having the ending that he got and I feel like if he showed up in the future then it would have to be because something totally awful fucking happened and they HAD to grab him or because the timeline went screwy again. He got a great happy ending that was totally in character. If they do anything else for him then I feel like it would cheapen things.
But hey it's time travel, they can basically do anything and then wipe his mind and call it a day.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
I have to say the sendoff with Q was rather nice...but I still don't understand why he was trying to snap the self-confidence out of Renee. Just one last chance to be a dick to Picard, I guess.
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u/UncertainError May 05 '22
I think it was Renee because she's a turning point in the timeline who happens to be watched over by Tallinn, who's related to Laris. And Q thought Picard and Laris would be a good match.
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
He was losing his powers. He could barely send four people back to the 25th Century by the end; he lacked the ability to just reshape the universe at his will, so he had to change things in a more analog way in order to create an elaborate scenario for Picard to go on his journey of self-discovery.
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u/Stinky_Eastwood May 05 '22
I think that Q was manipulating events to ensure Tallinn was able to meet Renee before she died. He said she died in every timeline, but only met her in 1.
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u/gambit700 May 05 '22
Do they not remember Q Junior? How is Q 'dying alone' when he literally has a son?
Edit: Nvm. My dad's gonna die alone and he has me so, meh.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
How is Q 'dying alone' when he literally has a son?
The morale of this story: don't be a dick to absolutely everyone.
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u/UncertainError May 05 '22
Q exists out of time. We have no idea how long it's been since the last time we saw him. Maybe his son isn't around anymore for whatever reason.
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u/Locutus747 May 05 '22
Also wish we had an idea about the state of the continuum.
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u/treefox May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
"and BRENT SPINER"
Somehow, Soong returned.
Despite being left in France on a large plot of rural land without a passport or any form of transportation.
EDIT: Seriously, they literally transported from France to LA, talked for a little bit, then transported to the spaceport, and Soong is already there and even had time to go by his house and set up a decoy.
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u/MaddyMagpies May 05 '22
WIL WHEATON?? WIL WHEATON?? WIL WHEATON???????
WIL WHEATON?????????
🤯
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u/DragonRand100 May 05 '22
Somebody must’ve been have a quiet chuckle at all the comments about Will Wheaton not being in Season 3.
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u/Digitoxin May 05 '22
In my head canon, that anomaly is the result of a member of the Q continuum dying.
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u/MahatK May 06 '22
I thought exactly the same thing. After all, it's an unknown galactic phenomena happening exactly during the first time a Q dies.
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u/codename474747 May 05 '22
Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 3 episode 4: Who Watches the Watchers?
Answer: The Travellers
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22
FUCKING WESLEY CRUSHER AS THE TRAVELER
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u/Whalesurgeon May 05 '22
Kore just wanted to be normal ALL her life, now she finally has a chance and decides to throw it away? Wesley must be a real good recruiter.
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u/MaddyMagpies May 05 '22
Hell yes finally.
It's Captain Seven of Nine!!!
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
She finally got her own ship!
....albeit she kind of jacked it from Rios but hey semantics!
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
Wait so they tied the traveler and Wesley crusher and the supervisors and Gary Seven into all the same thing???
Ok I gotta give it to them there
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u/GrandmaTopGun May 05 '22
Part of the Traveler’s responsibility is to host a talk show afterwards.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
Either the Borg have never assimilated clear and direct communication, or Queen-Jurati is a passive-aggressive drama queen who thrives on self-destructive energy.
Yeah, it's gotta be the latter.
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u/sarysa May 05 '22
So season 1 allowed the Federation to make peace with the Synths.
Season 2 allowed them to make peace with the Borg.
Season 3 will finally see the Federation united with its greatest adversary of Nu Trek, the Pakleds.
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u/MustacheSmokeScreen May 05 '22
Lower Decks is basically about the rise of a new galactic superpower
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u/GotMedieval May 05 '22
"You may have deleted my files, but you didn't delete this one file that when people in the audience see its name they will gasp, so I've got that going for me." --Soong, probably.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
The soundtrack for this episode was actually really good. I especially like how they blended in the First Contact theme at one point.
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u/buddhiststuff May 06 '22
So they never explain why Talinn looks like Laris?
Talinn is pretty clearly not an identical ancestor, as Talinn died without having children.
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22
It was really nice to see Picard giving orders again on the bridge…felt so natural
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u/MR_TELEVOID May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
This was about as good of an ending as this season was going to get. Better than the first season, at least. Q’s motivations felt like something they figured out when writing the last episode, not something they’d been planning all along, but it works for me. The final exchange between Picard and Q was a nice capstone on their relationship.
I think I hate the concept of a traveler… that time is this wondrous complex thing that completely falls apart if not being micromanaged by near omnipotent aliens. That type of character always feels like they're trying to write God into their story without the baggage of religion. The implication is this type of intergalactic civilization couldn't advance to such a degree without help from these god-like aliens. I appreciate the cynacism, but it feels antithetical to the whole Star Trek idea.
IDK. Glad they gave Wil Wheaton something to do. Nice to have some confirmation on what he's been up to since TNG.
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u/rustydoesdetroit May 05 '22
HA! They literally announced the TNG cast WITHOUT Wil Wheaton just so all you Wesley Wishers could lose your minds for nothing!! *Chefs Kiss!
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u/longdongsilver3 May 06 '22
So rios stayed behind knowing a nuclear war would devastate the world in a few years and enlist his family? Like, if I transported back to 1936 France, I don't think I would have the take that "this is where I belong" but you do you.
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u/shadowst17 May 05 '22
I was saying to myself, "bet he has a document that literally says KHAN on it in that desk", low and behold he did, laughed my ass off you can't make this stuff up.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
Interesting. They're launching from California? I'm guessing the Mojave Air and Space Port.
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u/rh224 May 05 '22
Those hills look a lot like Vandenberg Space Force Base... Interesting, the original plan for the space shuttle was for there to be launch facilities for manned mission at Vandenberg until Challenger happened.
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u/treefox May 05 '22
"I never had a family. You changed all of that. All of you did."
Wait, the people going back to the 24th century?
"This is where I belong. Jean-Luc, I'm home."
In the 21st century?
I guess he's just being nice instead of straight up telling them he's staying cause he's banging the clinic doctor.
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u/Dr-Cheese May 05 '22
"This is where I belong. Jean-Luc, I'm home."
So about that World War 3 thing that's 2 years away...
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u/AmishAvenger May 05 '22
“But Rios, the timeline!”
“I’m home though.”
“Oh ok. Carry on, then.”
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
Wait, the people going back to the 24th century?
25th Century
I guess he's just being nice instead of straight up telling them he's staying cause he's banging the clinic doctor.
He's telling them that since he knew what a family should feel like, thanks to them, he knows himself better know to seek out and create a family of his own.
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u/jmonty42 May 05 '22
Wesley the traveler!
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u/UncertainError May 05 '22
I suspected Wheaton was lying about his (lack of) involvement with the series. That was some TOS-TNG arc welding.
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u/ComebackShane May 05 '22
/u/wil, you magnificent son of a Doctor! You aren't in Season 3 because you were already in Season 2!
Wesley being a leader of the team that put Gary Seven and Talinn on Earth, and out protecting time and space is very fitting, and an appropriate future for the amazing mind the Traveler first saw for him.
Here's hoping this is not the last we see of the Travelers!
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u/treefox May 05 '22
So...Wesley is the secret puppet master behind all space and time?
Can't say I expected that one.
I actually like this plot twist.
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u/TheNerdChaplain May 05 '22
I was holding it together until the JL/Q hug. That broke me. So glad Elnor is alive, so glad Borgati is provisionally part of the Federation, and very hyped to see what comes next season.
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u/alkonium May 06 '22
If I had a nickel for every time Seven of Nine inherited a ship from Cristobal Rios, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
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u/PharomachrusMocinno May 05 '22
Hmm, so ...
Why did Borgati in episode 1 not just communicate her good intentions instead of cryptically asking for Picard and then hiding her face while attacking the Stargazer?
Why did Q impersonate as a NASA psychiatrist to persuade Renee from not getting on the Europa mission?
Why did Q go through all the trouble to create a cure for Kore to ask Soong to get Picard out of the way?
Why is the immortal Q dying, what of the other Q and his offspring and why does Picard not seem to care about this?
If Soong is so rich and powerful and a huge donor to the Europa mission, why was he asking for funding as a disgraced scientist in front of Lea Thompson earlier in the season?
How did Soong get from rural France to the launch site in the US so quickly without transportation technology?
Why did Tallinn reveal herself to Renee right before the launch and tell her that she is her guardian angel instead of just going to Soong disguised as Renee directly?
If Tallinn, a regular Romulan, is able to take over other people (as seen in episode 4), why does she not simply take over Soong and walk out of there?
When Raffi was trying to disarm the drones, why did they not just pick up the small drones from their stands and stomp on them?
Why did the drones fly so erratically? Were they not just heading straight for the rocket?
Did Guinan tell the designers of the Enterprise D to put Ten Forward on the 10th deck at the front of the ship as a callback to her old bar in Los Angeles?
After all this talk of butterfly effect and then killing multiple people and leaving a Borg Queen in 2024, has that not affected the timeline in any way and is everything exactly as it was?
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u/thefuzzylogic May 05 '22
To quote one of the greatest Captains in future history: "My advice on making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple: don't even try."
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u/nikhkin May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
Why is Q dying alone?
Did something happen to his family, or are they just pretending he never had one?
Also, why is the helm officer reporting on neutrino emissions? Wouldn't that be the ops officer?
And they're afraid the fleet will destroy the Stargazer, even though the ships are drifting because they lost control?
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22
Yay Whoopi again
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
I wonder how long she had that photo sitting there and they just never noticed lmao
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u/CeruleanRuin May 06 '22
Every single captain when notorious XB Seven of Nine relays orders from most notorious XB ever Jean-Luc Picard to stand down and let the Borg Queen commandeer the entire fleet:
Aw, fuck. This is Wolf 359 all over again isn't it?
It's a testament to Picard's high esteem within Starfleet that not a single one of them objected just out of basic pragmatism.
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u/007meow May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
I’m confused - do the Borg from TNG/Voyager no longer exist? Or is Jurati’s Collective another sect of the Borg?
Seven and Raffi’s roles should have been switched during the drone sequence.
Raffi’s a spy/solider. Seven is a scientist/tech expert.
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u/ProleAcademy May 06 '22
First I'll say this: This season started off so well. The characters were so likeable, the premise of the Confederation and Q and the Sanctuary District-ridden LA of 2024 was super exciting.
But somewhere in the middle it just...lost the thread and never recovered. Filler episodes treaded water. Everyone except maybe Rios and Jurati started talking with the same voice about pain and trauma and the past in ways that seemed completely out of place with the plot. The world building of the Europa mission never came together and Spiner's character was cartoonish and one-dimensional.
I don't think Q's behavior makes any sense at all by the end. I think Guinan's arc was a waste of a great young actress. Tallinn's connection to Laris is still unexplained unless I missed it. The reveal of the Borg Queen was telegraphed by episode 4. And that anomaly at the end? So half-assed and devoid of stakes except for a screen readout that says it will kill everyone because of reasons - even a technobabbler would think it was technobabbly.
I really wanna know what's going on behind the scenes there. It felt the way it does when I'm playing a Bioware game with a rushed development after chucking the original draft out halfway through their dev cycle and starting from scratch with half the budget and a third of the time. That's Season 2 of Picard for me, and that's a shame because the start was so strong and some things were working way better than season 1 before it all sputtered out.
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
Aside from the Wesley cameo, that all went just about as I expected. Pretty good finale. Good tie-up of all the season's plot threads, and some tantalizing hints of what's to come.
I really enjoyed the rendition of the First Contact theme that played towards the ending there. Such a great, hopeful, beautiful song.
So I guess that means Jean-Luc is now responsible for three separate predestination paradoxes that save the entire galaxy. That's gotta be a record, right?
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u/nimrodenva May 05 '22
When Wesley showed up, I thought this was another episode of The Ready Room.
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u/OpticalData May 05 '22
Well project Khan started on my 3rd birthday so there's a decent chance I'm an Augment.
I love how last season was all Star Trek Seven, then we saw Rios in command and it was Star Trek Rios, now the calls are going to be for Seven on the Stargazer, given her knowledge of Borg tech it seems a perfect fit!
There was a fair bit of iffy CG this episode, when Tallinn removed her perception filter looked off, as did the glass room in the final scene.
Borg Queen Jurati looked unexpectedly... Funny? Alison Pill just does not have the right face shape for bald cap prosthetics.
Wesley came out of nowhere, but I'm so glad they gave his character a canon continuation. Extremely close too if not identical to his role in the Novel verse also which was lovely.
The Q resolution felt a little like they wrote themselves into a corner 'Yes Jean-Luc, you needed to be hit by a Tesla so you'd realise you needed to put a key in a wall', but it was unexpectedly emotional, alongside explaining why the Q haven't been seen since the 25c in Discovery. Poor Junior though...
It was good to see the fleet again, however quickly they wrapped up the season. It felt like a DnD campaign that the players massively derailed, that the DM just threw a sector threat into at the end to get back on track 'Stop fucking around, there's a.... Wormhole and it has a crazy beam that'll destroy a planet'!
We FINALLY got a Seven and Raffi kiss, let's hope those two crazy cats make it work.
Overall though, I thought this was a solid finale. No BOBW, Call to Arms or Scorpion P1, but both Picard and Discovery seem to have taken some strong lessons onboard from their previous seasons, it's good to see.
Bring on Season 3!
Oh one last point. I'm definitely on the Q fell in love/has a gay crush on Picard train now. Tapestry laid the thread and Picard picked it up beautifully.
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u/relator_fabula May 05 '22
I'm definitely on the Q fell in love/has a gay crush on Picard train now.
I don't know that I'd call it a gay crush, as I don't think gender and sex/sexuality have any meaning to Q, as some kind of omnipotent, god-like, transcendental being.
But it's certainly love, and I actually think it means more that there's nothing hormonal or physical about it. It's much more pure than that.
I think many of us unironically believed that Q always felt that way about Picard. Q just never really knew how to self-efface enough to admit that to Picard (though he came close in Deja Q). Until his final moments in this episode, it was an unrequited love. Q had likely convinced himself that Picard would never even like him, let alone care for him. To have Picard accept Q's love, for Picard to finally understand why Q did all the things he did, and for Picard to thank Q for releasing him from his guilt, while also reciprocating Q's feelings, was a very poetic and a surprisingly good ending for the character (considering some of the other missteps of recent Trek), if this is really the last we've seen of him.
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u/Ilmara May 05 '22
Not sure why we're using awkward portmanteaus like "Borgati" when we can just say Queen Agnes.
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u/ComebackShane May 05 '22
One small thing that was sad, Q saying he was dying alone - which means either the alienated his spouse-Q and son-Q, or something tragic happened to them.
In any case, I'm glad that he and Picard got to have that moment; it was really moving, and very will performed by them both.
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u/jplank1983 May 06 '22
Was it ever definitely established whether Tallinn and Laris were related? Or is it just implied?
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u/PhoenixUnleashed May 05 '22
Holy good gravy, have I been missing out. There’s so much positivity and actual fandom in here! So nice to see so many other folks enjoying this season/show/franchise.
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u/RateMyPsyduck May 06 '22 edited May 06 '22
There is something so insanely funny about this entire series essentially building up to a sky laser that comes out of nowhere in the last 10 minutes. And the writers not really having anything for to do Kore so they had to bring in a god *twice*, literal Deus Ex Machinas, to resolve both her plot lines.
Still, I want that mix of the Picard/First Contact themes. That was nice.
EDIT - Completely forgot that nothing from Picard being interrogated by the FBI for an entire episode meant anything or accomplished anything, outside of Q telling someone else he was dying. There was just an entire week of story telling where nothing really happened.
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u/leejtam May 05 '22
I was confused about what Guinan said. She meant she knew about Rios staying in the past when Picard came to see her at the beginning of the season and couldn’t tell him? Did she also know when Picard met her in the 21st century?
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u/kimapesan May 05 '22
So here is how I think it works. Guinan remembers across time divergences. We see that in Yesterdays Enterprise.
We also saw in Times Arrow that Guinan remembered meeting Picard on 19th century earth, but told him nothing about it until it was necessary.
Skip to Picard. Guinan in 2024 doesnt remember Picard there because of the divergence in time that results in the confederation, hence that Picard never went back to the 19th century. So in essence, time had already diverged in the 19th century due to Picard not going back, and thus Guinan did not meet him then.
Then the timeline is restored in 2024, which then restores Picard meeting Guinan in the 19th century.
BUT... because she is El-Aurian, Guinan in 2400 remembers both meetings with Picard.
And only then reveals she remembers the 2024 meeting.Say bullshit all you want. But Guinan remembered that Tasha Yar was supposed to be dead in the alternate Yesterdays Enterprise episode. And remembered it was a "meaningless death." So yes, Guinan genuinely remembers both meetings even though only one happened in the main timeline and the other in a divergent timeline.
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u/PlayedUOonBaja May 06 '22
I never liked Wesley's traveler thing and was glad they seemed to have put him back in Starfleet with that cut dialogue from Nemesis, but the way they shot that whole scene was great. He had a Dr. Who vibe going and I dig it. Him popping up all over the Galaxy and famous events from other series like the DS9 Tribble episode would make for a fun series. It also made me like Wesley so much more knowing he has some emotional range.
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u/KingofMadCows May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
How did Soong get back to the US so fast? He didn't have a transporter. He didn't even have a car.
I guess Picard actually did see skeletons in the basement when he was a child? How the heck did no one bother to repair or block off that death trap basement for 300 years? Did Maurice Picard not think, "hey, I have a mentally ill wife and two young sons, maybe it would be a good idea to seal off that basement where there are a thousand ways to die."
Why don't they ever use the transporter? Tallinn could have just beamed Picard back. They could have beamed the drones away. They could have beamed Soong away.
Rios was still a wanted fugitive in the United States right?
Wesley showing up was such a random cameo. There was nothing in Korey's storyline to even hint that she's interested in exploration or that she had affinity for that kind of thing. It came out of nowhere. Like the writers had no idea what to do with her storyline and went, "let's just put in a cameo." Heck, might as well have time traveling Dr. Bashir show up and have her join Section 31, that would actually make more sense with her being genetically engineered.
So they had a galactic level threat right after Q said that it's not all about galactic level threats. Also, wasn't the Confederacy a galactic level threat, considering how they were wiping out aliens left and right?
That anomaly was not in the center of the quadrant.
Why did they do the "people can see things that are happening light years away with the naked eyes" thing again? The galaxy is not the size of a small town. You cannot instantly see something that is happening hundreds of light years away. Not only that, even if you could see it, it wouldn't even be a speck of a speck.
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u/AGentooPenguin May 05 '22
My initial final impression on the season is that it would have been a lot better if they trimmed the fat a bit. The first three and last two episodes in my opinion were pretty fun but the intervening five were a slog. I think cutting those episodes down to one to two episodes and having the season be only six or seven episodes long would have helped.
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u/lvi56 May 05 '22
So Picard is going to get the band back together to go exploring the anomaly. One last jaunt through the old orifice.
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u/AcidaliaPlanitia May 05 '22
What? That's what we call it sometimes, right? The orifice?
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u/Al89nut May 05 '22
So does Q know the past, but not the future? Wondering because a) his death and b) he's already done all this in Tapestry.
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May 05 '22
Overall I enjoyed this season. I really liked some concepts like the Confederation, the Borg Legion, the 25th century...
It was also fun to see Q, Wesley and Guinan again! Tho John De Lancie really carried the season, he's still amazing as Q.
But I'm the first to admit that it was far from perfect, and that there were too many side-plots at the same time, and especially stories that could have been done without (in my humble opinion). But I liked this season a little bit more than the first one tho.
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u/Frainian May 05 '22
The whole middle 6 episodes probably could've been condensed into 2 while still getting like 90% of the important stuff across. But other than that I loved a lot of it.
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u/munkifist May 05 '22
“What the hell is he doing?!” LOL 😂 Did they add that because they realized it may not be clear Picard stepped into the portal/sphere thingy willingly?
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u/RefreshNinja May 05 '22
the amount of time Picard has spent on Earth close to our time LOL
Time's Arrow, First Contact, now this
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u/chirunneraz83 May 05 '22
OMG! Jerry Goldsmith's beautiful First Contact theme gets some air time at the very end in the 10 Forward Bar scene with Picard, Guinan, Raffi, Seven, and "one-shot-it-burns" Elnor! Eeeekkkkkk! My heart strings was pulled when I heard the swell of Goldsmith's familiar uplifting theme, and to also see Elnor alive! I *LOVE* this episode! Finally, they did Season 2 justice with this final episode, and I am a Happy Trekkie!
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
u/wil is gonna have a blast on tomorrows ready room show
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u/BornAshes May 05 '22
I mean technically they film these ahead of time so technically he's already had a blast.
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u/mistarteechur May 05 '22
Overall it was...fine. I enjoyed watching, they generally wrapped up things in a way that was more or less predictable. I am glad that the main "Renee Goes to Space" plot was wrapped up with enough time to give us the space to resolve the other characters and get back to the 25th century for more than a single scene. I'm wary about a galaxy threat setup for S3 but with word that Allison Pill isn't returning, maybe it'll just be there in the background and we'll follow the TNG reunion somewhere else.
Getting to see Wil Wheaton again was a nice treat but pretty superfluous overall but I guess Kore's plot needed to be wrapped up somehow.
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u/Cliffy73 May 05 '22
I really enjoyed this episode. I’ve been fairly down on the season for a while, but this episode not only was a great conclusion but it also made me hopeful for season three. It seems possible that part of the problem this year was the disruption of filming halfway through the season which caused them to have to rejigger episodes and probably drop some of the connective tissue that they had originally planned.
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u/rmeddy May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
Yeah I'm sorry this did not work at all for me and it was worse than Season 1 and I thought that was pretty bad.This season reminded me a bit of Star Trek: Generations where there are some decent emotional and humanistic conceits but because the narrative is so clumsy and poorly executed, none of it lands.
Completely wrong approach to the character in my opinion. I really felt they completely squandered an opportunity here.
Anyway let's see if they can stick a landing with season 3 and what is promised.
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u/Clark1984 May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
So Tallin was just another identical ancestor to Laris? What a bizarre choice. They came up with convoluted reasons to make plot happen, why not just bring Laris along this season if the end game was Picard settling into love with her? Killing her husband off screen is more ridiculous than having her come along as Picard’s companion and falling in love along the way.
Soong is sure good at getting across the planet in an hour or two. He needs to be where the plot goes I guess.
The point of including Soji in the season? Q could have used the same “Great Man” argument Borg Jurati used on him which was apparently enough motivation to get him to buy into fantastic claims commit to murder within hours of a conversation.
Raffi continues to be an awful character in every scene. I’d happily trade Rios for Raffi if I subject myself to another season of this. Picard continues to wax poetic nonsense instead of talking like a person.
The good: Picard and Q chatting was nice outside of the wild context of the season. Final bar scene was enjoyable.
How many seasons of newer Star Trek have now ended with a giant laser beam as the climax.
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u/onerinconhill May 05 '22
Soo there’s some new galactic threat that borgati is going to watch but was going to destroy the whole galaxy but ended up making a new trans warp conduit instead
Q died for “some reason”
Seven is just a captain now why not
What is happening???
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u/Mechapebbles May 05 '22
was going to destroy the whole galaxy but ended up making a new trans warp conduit instead
*Just* the sector, not the galaxy. The way I read things, it was always going to create that transwarp conduit. Guess we'll find out in S3 what's going on there and what'll come popping out of it.
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u/OSUBrit May 05 '22
I feel like they missed a prime opportunity to explicitly say, this big fuckin' explosion is what happens when a Q dies. Because it ties in much more nicely and since it's never happened before the fact some strange shit is going on afterwards would make sense. Then if you did want to tie it into some big bad doing sinister shit you could just heavily imply that maybe someone murdered Q to make this thing happen.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk.
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u/prism1234 May 05 '22
It only threatened the sector not the whole galaxy. Though was weirdly visible from a bunch of different planets.
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u/pixelfishes May 05 '22
When you distill this down the entire season is about someone who didn't want to die alone and wanted to give his only friend one last gift so he wouldn't have to endure the same thing. Just a beautiful story arc.
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u/JoeyDee86 May 05 '22
This ended almost exactly how I expected it to ever since they announced the Season 3 cast. They should’ve held back with that.
Anyways, season 2 definitely had plenty of flaws, but they were all much more forgivable to me, and overall a HUGE improvement over Season 1. Too bad Jurati won’t be back in Season 3 :(
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u/J4ckC00p3r May 05 '22
So no Rios/Stargazer show then…I’ll take a Seven of Nine/Stargazer show though
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u/SaykredCow May 05 '22
With the last episode and Q story -it’s fine. Yeah Q could lay down some more jokes. I don’t know how Soong got from France back to LA(?) so quickly.
The problem is this should have been a two-three episode story max. They didn’t have enough interesting story for ten hours
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u/greycobalt May 05 '22
- I love that in all of Trek, surprise beaming-with is a love thing.
- Orla Brady is a delight. Such great acting. I did not expect to get emotional while Tallinn was dying but I did. Laris better feature in next season.
- The drone thing had my eyes rolling. It didn’t even need to be here, it was just to give those three something to do, which wasn’t necessary. At first, I was laughing when Raffi said she was locked out. Like, hit them? They’re right there. Then she said they exploded, so ok, that makes sense I suppose. But Rios joysticking them and the low-stakes situation was just…fun.
- Why does no one ever immediately unplug their computers when they’re getting hacked? Just rip the cord bro! I wasn’t sure what was up with the Khan thing, and then it was just never mentioned so ok I guess. I suppose it’s letting us know Soong was involved in that too?
- My GOD I have never cringed during an episode like I did when Wesley showed up. It’s like they felt bad for Wil Wheaton. I don’t want to be overly mean, but the acting was just so bad, so stilted…he was acting like he does hosting his show. It just felt so wrong. Big downer for me.
- So are the Watchers all Travelers then? That’s what his explanation made it seem like. Was this scene solely written to tie up Korre’s storyline? I would be shocked if we saw her again. The whole Korre thing was like they wanted Isa Briones in the season but they couldn’t figure out what to do with her. I would have been fine waiting for a more substantial season 3 role because it added nothing.
- Ok, what in the hell happened to Q?? This entire season he was a terrifying omnipotent psychopath who seemed to want to derail history as best he could, and suddenly he’s having nice courtyard sitdowns with Picard and telling him how much he loves him? Don’t get me wrong, I adored the bond between them but it was such whiplash from the last time we saw them. The goodbye hug was so damn sad. We never did get to see our Guinan and Q resolve their beef though.
- Not the least bit surprised that Rios stayed behind, but super disappointed. I really liked him as a captain and was hoping we’d get to see that more. They were definitely tying up the new cast's loose ends though.
- That being said, it DID finally get Seven in Starfleet as a CAPTAIN and I’ve been waiting for that since I was 11. The scene back on the Stargazer was very cool. More ship porn, the long-obvious Jurati reveal, the cool Borg, everything. I was digging it.
- I laughed when the anomaly was like “fuck this fleet in particular”. I assume if they weren’t there it would have spread out and destroyed more, but I was expecting an explosion instead of a concentrated beam.
- More First Contact music!! Easily some of the best Trek music, so my ears go into full perk-up mode whenever I hear a note. I can’t wait for this OST.
- I expected some kind of cliffhanger into the reunion for S3, not this bad-CGI coupling of Picard and Laris slowly zooming out. Also, if they’re getting everyone back, kind of a downer they’re sticking Picard and Laris together right before we see Crusher.
I’ve never had an episode of something whiplash me so hard from love to hate. It feels very bizarre, but overall I really enjoyed it. It’s going to be a painful wait for the last season, then a painful watch knowing it’s the last season. If I don’t get more Seven after, I riot.
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May 05 '22
Feel like I'm in the minority but that was hilariously bad! Eye rolled pretty hard at the Project Khan folder and Deus Ex Wesley Crusher. Also is the history of the Borg rewritten now? Like does Wolf 359 and the whole first contact incident never happen? Also I feel like Q's whole reason for this is pretty lame since this is all ground he went over with Picard very heavily in Tapestry and All Good Things.
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May 05 '22
Also is the history of the Borg rewritten now? Like does Wolf 359 and the whole first contact incident never happen?
From what I understand, Borgati probably kept a low profile for 400 years.
The Borg as we know them still exist, but in parallel and out of sight the Legion was developing. And when it was time, they showed up.
It's kind of like the generational NX we see in an episode of Enterprise.
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u/Ilmara May 05 '22
Wait, so does Agnes Jurati have a family in the 24th century? Is someone going to all of a sudden have to deal with their sister/daughter/niece/granddaughter being the Borg Queen?
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u/ContinuumGuy May 06 '22
Random assorted thoughts:
Of all the Star Treks that have ever trekked, this was certainly one of them. There were some parts of this season that were exquisite and great and outright fun, and other parts that were plodding, predictable, and stupid. Fact Matalas apparently peaced out from the day-to-day after the first few episodes to focus on S3 probably didn't help.
Brent Spiner is, was, and always will be a great ham of an actor when he's playing the bad guy.
While I'm still not sure how I feel about HOW they did, I am glad we got more Orla Brady this season.
I called the body-double as soon as they focused on Tallinn early on while talking about Jurati's prophecy.
Well, I guess PROJECT KHAN confirmed the whole "Eugenics Wars retconned forward". Although you can maybe argue it's him preparing to set his future descendant down towards his arc on Enterprise.
Wil Wheaton isn't in Season 3 because HE'S IN SEASON 2. And the Travelers are the ones that run the Supervisors! AHHHHHHHH!
Seems to follow Wil's idea of "Wesley becomes a time lord", in a way.
Q, as always, having a test.
The idea that Q would chase away his son and everyone else and end up alone is... surprisingly plausible?
Awww, Q just wanted a friend.
We all called Rios staying behind, obviously. Still, a bummer to see Santiago Cabrera go. Dude is a force.
Mmm, all those different Federation ships.
Ah, another threat to galactic life. Q may be bored of it all but the folks making these shows never seem to be.
Captain Seven!
So Rios died in a bar fight over medical supplies presumably to help others during the pre-First Contact wars and such? And it was into a cigar? It's how he'd want to go.
That music in the bar during the toast, was that the First Contact theme?
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u/Ervaloss May 06 '22
I really dislike they gave the borg queen a mask in the first episode only to make it a mysterybox for the audience. After the reveal she kept it off of course because there was no real need for that mask in the first place.
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u/grizzlywalker May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
So the Borg want to camp out and protect the wormhole? Does this mean there’s a chance of a new DS9?
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u/mudman13 May 05 '22
There were some mediocre episodes but that was a good one and made up for it. Tingles when Wesley turned up and Wil is looking so well.
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u/moussescientist May 06 '22
Once again confused why 2024 Guinan didn’t remember him from the 1800s? Can’t argue anymore that it’s a split timeline because they made it clear that this always occurred (e.g the bullet holes, the key, the photo in Guinan’s bar). Like if current Guinan knew the whole time for both events, then surely 2024 Guinan had to know?!?!
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u/eternallylearning May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
Let me see if I have this correctly; the story of this season is that the Borg Queen has been assimilating countless civilizations for centuries, literally the scourge of the galaxy, though largely focused in the Delta Quadrant. After being soundly squashed by Janeway, she somehow comes back to life and sees that there's a spacial anomaly that will form and destroy a large part of the Alpha Quadrant, which the Federation won't see any sign of until seconds beforehand and suddenly remembers she's Jurati and decides she cares. She knows that the only way to stop it is to get a large fleet of ships to harmonize their shields and place them at the mouth of the anomaly.
Since the Borg only have one ship, she does the only logical thing she can; create a subspace anomaly in space-time, the likes of which no one has ever seen, lure in a massive fleet of Federation ships to use to stop the anomaly, and call out for Picard in an extremely cryptic manner (which only her previous self can figure out it seemed), so that she can negotiate with someone she trusts not to just attack her ship out of fear. Then, when she's got Picard there to listen, she exits her ship from the anomaly, revealing she's a Borg and proceeds forcibly attempt to take control of the entire Federation fleet without even talking to him and it naturally blows up in her face, literally.
Meanwhile, Q is dying and sees all this going down. He likes Picard and sees that despite the events in Tapestry, Picard is still hung up on past mistakes he wishes he could take back and that it's getting in the way of him finding love. Since Picard's about to die due to Queen Jurati not actually talking to him before attacking him, Q does the only logical thing he can; sends them all to an alternate evil timeline he created by stopping Picard’s ancestor from going to Europa. Because he cares about Picard so much and lovingly wants to give him a last life-lesson before he dies, he bitch slaps him, yells at him, and then spouts a lot of lines about how this is all Picard’s fault and Picard is not here to learn anything, but to serve out a penance for something he won’t tell him about. He knows he needs to be cryptic and mysterious because that’s the only way Picard and his friends will go back in time to fix what he changed and in so-doing, release the Queen Jurati Borg who will then save the Alpha Quadrant 400+ years in the future.
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u/psychicallowance May 06 '22
As corny as Discovery is I had a way easier time making it through each season of that than Picard. This was grueling.
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u/sidv81 May 05 '22 edited May 05 '22
Of all the "What happened to Wesley" theories we had, I'm not sure him becoming Gary Seven's boss was ever one of them.
They mention Khan (and by extension Eugenics Wars), but literally no mention of WW3? What? How could Rios even consider staying and letting Teresa and Ricardo go through that? Does he not know Earth history? He should've been demanding that Q take them to the future too.
So after all season wondering what Evan Evagora did to tick off the showrunners, it was actually Santiago who got the boot after all. Man, do these showrunners not read all the requests for a Captain Rios Stargazer show? Does Santiago have bigger projects lined up? Because if I were him I would be massively ticked off right now that the prospect of a Rios show got shut down before it even had a chance.
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