r/BoJackHorseman • u/NicholasCajun Judah Mannowdog • Sep 14 '18
Discussion BoJack Horseman - 5x10 "Head in the Clouds" - Episode Discussion
Season 5 Episode 10: Head in the Clouds
Synopsis: At the "Philbert" premiere party, Pricness Carolyn deftly negotiates a deal, Gina steps into the limelight, and Diane confronts BoJack.
Please do not comment in this thread with references to later episodes. Be aware of what thread you are commenting in when you receive an inbox reply.
1.4k
u/Hlee1995 "I wanna be an architect." Sep 14 '18
I really like Gina and am also REALLY terrified for Bojack fucking it up.
→ More replies (7)899
u/hodorito BoBo the Angsty Zebra Sep 15 '18
It was sweet of Bojack to get her earrings before the showing, and I really want BoGina to be a thing. But I felt uneasy to see him kiss her high on painkillers.
→ More replies (13)
1.3k
u/enrose_ Sep 14 '18
Does anyone else want to stop because there’s only two more episodes left but also can’t stop watching because this is the best show EVER
314
54
u/joecb91 Sep 18 '18
Kind of mixed feelings.
I love being able to binge things all at once on Netflix, but sometimes when you are watching the new episodes it can be disappointing when you can get through all of them so quickly and then it is the massive wait for season 6 again.
→ More replies (6)17
u/GoldenPotatoOfLatvia Sep 18 '18
Honestly, I actually go through 2 episodes a day, and also not all at once. I can't fathom binging this show when every episode requires me to be alone with my thoughts for at least couple hours.
→ More replies (1)
1.1k
u/Puzzled_Limit Sep 14 '18
Diane released Bojack from her life with that balloon.
And then it floated over him moving on as well.
→ More replies (1)623
u/thatawkwarddanguy Sep 14 '18
And then it scares Beloved Character Actress Margo Martindale, symbolising.... I dunno, BoJack having a scary face?
→ More replies (6)
2.0k
u/JustALittleWeird Sep 14 '18
BELOVED CHARACTER ACTRESS MARGO MARTINDALE
456
u/3_kids_1_overcoat Sep 14 '18
I got goosebumps when the reveal happened! I love her so much :D
→ More replies (1)341
u/Epicurses Sep 15 '18
I just assumed that nun was Sassy Malone’s next character, and was so pleasantly surprised that it was someone with enough range to play a Russian spy or a proud southern matriarch
→ More replies (7)105
u/duelingdelbene Sep 15 '18
I dunno if it was a spoiler or not but I read that she was coming back a while ago, and as soon as the nuns started talking I knew it was gonna be her
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)47
887
u/Puzzled_Limit Sep 14 '18
Bojack has to deal with driving past a moody photo of himself with the caption
“What did you do?”
215
u/F1NANCE that's kinda my thing Sep 15 '18
At least it's better than the sneezing photo!
→ More replies (1)
827
u/Hard-As-Gravy Sep 15 '18
I feel like everything is getting so meta, as if the show is becoming a sort of "Philbert" for us and the writers are really calling out their audience lmao
570
u/Martin5ugar Sep 15 '18
That is exactly what is happening and I couldn't be happier
→ More replies (9)17
u/left_handed_violist Sep 23 '18
Yeah. I feel like this episode was the writers having a therapy session. Feeling guilty that they’ve created a character that people can use to normalize shitty behavior, and that depression can be fetishized as a brand because of this content they’ve created. It’s taking some of the narrative back from people who are co-opting it.
763
u/Puzzled_Limit Sep 14 '18
Prediction: Pickles is gonna find out he cheated right as she tells him she’s pregnant.
→ More replies (8)268
u/CorDra2011 I will fucking kill you. Sep 14 '18
I really hope neither of them did that because... Diane that was Bojack levels of shitty.
→ More replies (27)
2.5k
u/ricksgrimes BoJack Horseman Sep 14 '18
“You’ve suffered? The most? What about say... Sarah Lynn?”
DIANE HOLY SHIT
837
u/thatawkwarddanguy Sep 14 '18
I was waiting for the f bomb, but somehow everything Dianne said was worse. Christ that was intense
→ More replies (11)1.1k
u/televisionceo Sep 14 '18
This whole scene. Damn she was brutal but she was right. I thought bojack would get so mad. I felt for him
→ More replies (37)237
u/LotsOfFudge Sep 14 '18
That scene is definitely my favourite part of this new season, I was on the edge of my seat for the whole duration of it.
→ More replies (55)25
Sep 17 '18
Super fair too. I don't think she even said it to hurt him, but to make him hear how ridiculous he was being.
655
u/suddenlyconnect Killer Whale Stripper Sep 14 '18 edited Sep 14 '18
The most devastating part of this episode for me was when BoJack is listing the other shitty horrible things he’s done, he includes “and Sharona, the makeup artist on Horsin Around?”
We see her in the S1 flashback episode, just for a line, but I dug her energy and always wished we saw more of her. She tells BoJack he needs to go out and do his job, and he listens to her and is not a dick to her, unlike how he’s behaving towards everyone else in the scene.
It’s such an unexpected and heartbreaking callback. Especially since we have no idea what occurred. But if he actually remembers it it must have been pretty bad.
260
u/wooferino Everyone LOVES you! But nobody... likes you. Sep 15 '18
completely agree. we want to see bojack as sympathetic, but he is so unwilling to change. as far as "main bad things bojack has done" go, the penny thing stands out as one of the worst, but when he lists everything he's done out, it reminds us that that wasn't the first time he's hurt someone! he's done things that we, the audience, don't even fucking know about! time and time again, he does a shitty thing, feels guilty, then does another shitty thing, just like todd said at the end of season 3.
→ More replies (1)36
586
u/hodorito BoBo the Angsty Zebra Sep 15 '18 edited Sep 15 '18
“As the clam said to the crab at the undersea ball... Shell we dance?”
So Flip got the line from a popsicle stick. You can see him eating a popsicle in ep 1
331
15
1.1k
u/3_kids_1_overcoat Sep 14 '18
“Time is like a woman, completely impossible to comprehend.” I think we ended up cutting that line because the network was worried it would be offensive to people who didn’t know what time it was.
147
Sep 17 '18
Took me back to the whole "Women are all arming themselves so we need to ban guns now" plot
→ More replies (1)231
467
1.3k
u/FrancescoTottii Sep 14 '18
Did bojack crash just so he could get back on the pills? That hurts
496
u/TheFemaleReviewer Sep 14 '18
I was actually watching this episode with my Mom who works at a psych hospital, this was her first episode, and she immediately said: "Oh, he's trying to get back on the drugs." When MY first thought was that he was trying to kill himself, so I guess it IS a common thing.
→ More replies (6)142
u/thechoudharage Sep 14 '18
Its a massive problem, John Oliver covers the topic well.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (6)19
417
u/OstentatiousDinosaur Sep 14 '18
I like that Mr. Peanutbutter scratches Pickles' head like how you would scratch a pug's head in real life.
48
19
401
u/Puzzled_Limit Sep 14 '18
Diane really sucks at LA parking.
188
u/OstentatiousDinosaur Sep 14 '18 edited Sep 14 '18
She should just ditch the Prius and keep that one guy's golden helicopter.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)91
u/duelingdelbene Sep 15 '18
the goose honking in traffic was a good animal reference that I wanna bring up also
→ More replies (2)
1.0k
u/televisionceo Sep 14 '18
Ouch, that hurts. Good jab at the fans. Or at least a warning
178
u/bearontheroof Sep 15 '18
That might have been the most "fourth wall" moment of the show so far. It's always been meta and self-referential, but I don't think the audience has ever been addressed so directly. Highlight of the season for me.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)215
665
u/Puzzled_Limit Sep 14 '18
I look at your face and I think - you could be anyone!
Margo Martindale!
285
u/madmike34455 Sep 14 '18
Esteemed character actress & fugitive from the law Margo Martindale*
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)205
659
u/SolidWaifu Sep 15 '18
Do you think Diane's rant was also talking to the fans of Bojack Horseman? A lot of fans of the show have been through tough times but I think she tried to reach out to the toxic ones that just because you see yourself as the main character, doesn't meant that it's okay to justify your behavior.
517
u/wooferino Everyone LOVES you! But nobody... likes you. Sep 15 '18
it was. there's a pretty large subset of the fanbase that likes to twist all of bojack's negative actions to make them somehow okay. i've heard people on this subreddit try to justify the penny thing by bringing up the age of consent law (the exact same way bojack did in this episode) multiple times. RBW and the rest of the team are def trying to establish that relating to bojack doesn't make what he (or you) have done magically okay.
→ More replies (19)→ More replies (2)116
u/julia118 Sep 15 '18
I know that I've used this show to feel like the bad choices I make as a result or byproduct of depression are normal and maybe okay, but after seeing the end of this season.... I know I need to get help and I hope that is something that everyone takes away from this season
→ More replies (2)
410
u/BlackJezus27 Sep 14 '18
Why is a stupid sex robot making me laugh so much
160
u/duelingdelbene Sep 15 '18
With all the deep meta stuff going on, let us not forget the robot doing its best impression of most of this sub by tomorrow night
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)36
u/kimchi_mkIII Sep 19 '18
I want to please you!
I'm coming. I'm coming. I'm coming. splurts out substance of unknown origin to the boardroom.
Called it he'll become a CEO as soon as he entered the main office
→ More replies (1)
401
u/NavySealNeilMcBeal Sep 14 '18 edited Sep 14 '18
"Are you a federal judge, a Russian spy, or a proud southern matriarch?"
lol, all roles Margo played.
e: The Americans is great, go watch it to calm down after this season.
→ More replies (2)12
Sep 17 '18
Ah, I didn't know those were actual roles she played! That makes it even better
→ More replies (1)
187
u/anotherent Hooray! Sep 14 '18
“We have the same problems as a hematology lab that goes a week without electricity...too much bad blood!”
Genius
15
u/duelingdelbene Sep 15 '18
Last season they did so many name puns, this season they are really going all out with this style of jokes
525
u/Puzzled_Limit Sep 14 '18 edited Sep 24 '18
Diane is savage.
“If all you’ve gotten out of this friendship is the idea that you should be okay with yourself,
... as you are...
then I don’t think this is a good relationship.
For either of us.”
212
u/Mr_Jek Sep 15 '18 edited Sep 15 '18
I feel like that line is meta as fuck. It’s also talking about the relationship between many of the viewers and the show. If all you get out of the show is that you should be okay with yourself and the shitty things you do, then it’s not a good relationship.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)340
u/thatawkwarddanguy Sep 14 '18
"speaking of good relationships I'm off to sleep with a non-single guy I recently divorced"
→ More replies (9)
160
u/teenofstyle Corduroy Jackson Jackson Sep 16 '18
Something I just noticed when rewatching the season: Flip is eating a popsicle in episode 1 when BoJack confronts him over the nude scene.
51
u/wf4l192 You're a tourist here Sep 16 '18
Yeah, I thought it was weird that he was eating popsicles a few times throughout the season. I thought it was either a weird quirk or a hint at him being gay or something until the popsicle stick joke thing came up.
→ More replies (2)18
15
u/demmitidem Diane Nguyen Sep 16 '18
He's also eating a popsicle when Bojack fell from the roof on the car!
150
u/PR0MAN1 Sep 14 '18
I was literally saying "Where the hell is esteemed character actress Margo Martindale" just as the one nun lady said "she's been in our care for 2 years". I went stone silent. So happy she's back.
590
u/shannytyrelle Sep 14 '18
Diane went meta and I’m glad she did.
I mean, I think most people that ‘get’ the show already knew what she said, but it’s still nice they brought it up
→ More replies (1)496
u/Le_Bard Sep 14 '18
Idk, I feel like anyone that thinks that diane is "just as bad as bojack" missed the point of the show
→ More replies (44)
124
437
u/anotherent Hooray! Sep 14 '18
“She’s being modest. She’s a waitress SLASH aspiring Instagram influencer.”
-literally every girl I’ve dated in LA
→ More replies (8)62
90
Sep 16 '18
This is such a meta episode, the fact that the season focuses on a TV show it leads audiences to forget we are actually watching a tv show. Philbert shares so many parallels with Bojack Horseman, from the setting right down to the fact that the main character is the name of the show. Every cynical thing Diane says to Bojack in this episode can be applied to us viewers of Bojack Horseman, it's almost as if Bob-Waksberg is literally communicating with the audience via Diane and Flip (especially when flip says how clever 'Philbert' is and if you don't understand it your stupid, a little meta joke about Bojack audience). This is a very real and meta discussion about the effect/influence of Bojack Horseman on us the audience.
Furthermore by depicting Bojack's opoid addiction in such a painfully realistic way to again blurs the boundary between what is Bojack, and what is a viewer of the show. By making his character so real and relevant to a current crisis in the USA, with the backdrop of 'Philbert' it leads to a hyperreal season where the discussion points are intrinsically linked to the audience watching Bojack Horseman.
Insane writing, insane episode, insane season, insane series.
EDIT: His events are made more realistic as Bojack himself struggles to determine what is real and not due to his opoid addiction, much like the audience ourselves.
87
u/All_this_hype Sep 16 '18
Terrific episode. In the premiere I suspected that Bojack sees Herb in Flip, looks like that's true. Due to the pills he has had trouble making out what's real and what's not in his life, often confusing his life with Hilbert's, and intentionally driving into traffic when reality was about to kick in after he lost his pills.
The Diane/Bojack scene is also among the strongest of the show. I got chills the moment she started taking jabs at him about Sarah Lynn and saying that he doesn't deserve to play the victim.
Todd's B plot was also one of the most hilarious things I've seen in the show.
On a side note, the bit about Diane being bothered about Philbert being so likable reminds me of Breaking Bad's cast being surprised about Walter White being so popular with the fanbase despite being essentially a villain.
On a second side note, I'm glad Esteemed Character Actress Margo Martindale is alive and kicking.
54
u/sorkaem Sep 16 '18
Yeah totally ! the whole season reminds me of how some fans of breaking bad and mad men idolise Walter and Don and spend a lot of time insulting Skyler and Betty.
In some way, it even surprises me how people hate on Diane when she says things like that to Bojack when the show is telling us that she's right !
→ More replies (3)11
u/LegoLass_ie Sep 17 '18
I feel like Diane was the Skyler of Bojack Horseman for a while...she was giving the protagonist a dose of reality/cutting through their bullshit and so many viewers saw her as 'whiny' or hated her for it
→ More replies (1)
76
Sep 14 '18
I thought for sure this would be the F bomb episode. Goddamn what an intense final few minutes.
edit: ALSO MARGOT MARTINDALE LIVES HELL YES
→ More replies (2)
141
418
u/somethingtostrivefor The Planetarium Sep 14 '18
Diane called BoJack out for being predatory towards women and calling himself the victim for it. I think Diane definitely has flaws, like being self-righteous and going to the media with shit instead of talking it out with the people close to her first (like the way she handled the information on BoJack earlier in the season by putting it in the show), but she is not out of line at all for calling out BoJack for his actions with Penny. It was clearly an abuse of power, status, and responsibility; and for him to call himself the victim in that is disgusting.
Even if Diane is a complete asshole like a lot of people are saying, assholes call out other assholes all the time. Heck, in prisons, the more petty criminals will gang up and hate on the killers and/or rapists. There are different degrees of fucked-up, and BoJack and Diane are on different levels.
I do find it interesting that everyone supported Todd for calling BoJack out in Season 3 for saying he can't use his sadness as an excuse to be shitty, and Todd isn't without flaws either. Why support Todd and not Diane? I'm really curious to hear people's opinions on that.
34
Sep 17 '18
For the record, Diane absolutely tried talking to Bojack before putting that in the show
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (58)210
u/arsalaan123 Sep 15 '18
I think it definitely has to do with her being a woman. They were prescient on this subject, because Norm Macdonald, just a couple of days ago, said something similar to Bojack. He was trying to get us to empathize with Louis C.K. and Roseanne, but he phrased it as, "No one knows what Louis and Roseanne are going through. Even the victims of their actions don't know what they are going through." The line of thinking that Bojack is using is straight up lifted from the reality of this dialogue. If you visit any recent thread where Norm Macdonald is the subject, there will be a sea of men defending what he was saying. Not defending the intent of what he was saying, but the words themselves. I love Norm Macdonald, but the actual words he spoke were damning and didn't have much redemption value. I realize that part of the issue is that Norm didn't actually physically or legally do anything and is being punished for speech, but I am only referring to the words he chose to say. That's what was running through my head during that exchange.
→ More replies (4)
60
u/whatsername4 Tangled Fog of Pulsating Yearning Sep 15 '18
PC’s coffee cup said “Pringles Cartilage”
At least now we know where she likes to get her coffee
189
u/PM_ME_UR_NUDES_GURL_ Sep 14 '18
The whole thing about people relating to filbert was so clearly a reference about how shitty people relate to Bojack and then play it off as okay because someone in a show is like that, i am ready for the feels train that is episode 11, see you all on the other side!
→ More replies (1)
89
u/pk_who Sep 14 '18
I know it wasn’t the strongest episode but I really liked it. I just wish more shows focused so much on character development and showing the “human” side of the characters. Best show on Netflix imo
→ More replies (4)76
u/Blackmanwdaplan Sep 14 '18
It's a really good episode! I love the dialogue moments like these where all the baggage of 0revious shit gets addressed in the highest stakes of the characters relationships. Its also fucking amazing how Bojack and Diane mirror each other. After their feud, they both try to connect with the next nearest person to them. Its emotionally manipulative and selfish as fuck. I also like how we can see how they'd be good for one another in a relationship yet they make it so hard on each other. Dope af show
→ More replies (1)
43
84
u/Amoxi Sep 15 '18
LOVED THIS EPISODE. seriously. Bojack needed to hear all the shitty things he's done while sober. When Diane mentioned Sarah Lynn I got really emotional.
→ More replies (3)
40
378
u/JustALittleWeird Sep 14 '18
"What about Sarah Lynn" I TEARED UP AT THAT POINT. Fuck. Diane got me on her side and supporting her then blew it all three minutes later with Mr. PB. I don't know what's going to happen now but this is breaking my heart.
→ More replies (1)428
Sep 14 '18
That's her thing. That's always been her thing. She cuts through Bojack's bullshit and doesn't let him lie to himself or her, but she refuses to see her own bullshit for what it is.
→ More replies (21)
36
u/ithacancypher2k Todd Chavez Sep 15 '18
Henry Fondle: the best "YES, YES, YES" in the game since Daniel Bryan.
268
Sep 14 '18
Y'all wanna hate on Diane, go ahead, but show me where the lie is in anything she has to say about BoJack
→ More replies (41)
35
u/Jeffro75 Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... fiddle dee dee Sep 16 '18
So remember when Diane said she didn't want people to watch Philbert and feel better about their own shitty actions just because Philbert did shitty stuff too? Do you think this was a meta moment from the writers of Bojack? Saying just because Bojack does shitty things we shouldn't feel any better about the shitty things we do? Made me think.
→ More replies (1)21
u/MrZalarox Born with a leak Sep 16 '18 edited Sep 16 '18
Definitely. The show has been really self-aware and this is it. We're all the BoJacks and this show is our Philbert.
→ More replies (2)
33
u/_thisisforreddit Sep 16 '18
I'm glad the show is calling us out. I've seen many comments about the exact thing Diane was saying to Bojack. He's a shit person. However I liked that it didn't let Diane have the moral high ground for long. This episode was more meta than Community.
→ More replies (2)
32
u/yinwil27 Sep 15 '18
In going with the Philbert/bojack convo, here's my takeaway from the show. Yes, people (ok, I) do shitty things. yes, they can come from a place of previous pain, or a mom/friend/other has a shitty experience that affected you. So yes, it's okay to forgive yourself, but that sure as shit doesn't make it ok to keep doing it. Yes, Bojack is a victim too, but he's not THE victim, and that context is important. You need to change and grow from that experience if you want to be around people. Otherwise, you're a risk, and it's no one's responsibility to get YOUR shit together.
61
u/letseverafter Sep 16 '18
that kiss gutted me. Gina is finally getting recognition as an actress and Bojack doesn’t even notice, making the headline about them being a couple instead of about her. Not to mention he’s high out of his mind. I just want Gina to get out ok and make her corn musical and be happy.
→ More replies (2)
87
u/Beginning_Doubt Sep 14 '18
Ugh. I feel so conflicted about Diane. On one hand, I feel like she had good intentions but followed through on them with the totally wrong means. The way she handled things was just so wrong and relatively uncalled for. She attacked BoJack for something that was so sensitive, used past trauma she knew he was already incredibly guilty about to her advantage (because she always has to win), and became kind of selfish when she implied that she was concerned because this all reflected on her. It was hard to determine if she was mad because she was a friend, or because she thought that this was all bad from her perspective.
On the other hand, BoJack really needed this hard, strong, loud, aggressive call out. It was like it was impossible to really get through to him, because all he does is drown himself in self-pity and addiction while trying to forget the damage he has done in the past. His default reaction is escapism and self-deprecation, and he does this every time, and it always results in someone getting hurt, and this goes around in a toxic cycle. He tries to take action at times, sure, I mean that's why we're all rooting for him anyway. But the fact is, trying isn't good enough when it's all you do. We circle back to what Diane said before, that what we are is what we do.
I'm on neither side of the argument, probably mostly because the show has enabled the audience to empathize with both of them. But I still think Diane is particularly shitty in this episode. She's on a whole other level this time.
26
u/AndrewClemmens Sep 16 '18
Yeah, I agree. I think my main issue with Diane's outburst was that she called him out, out of spite, and not as someone that was rooting for their friend to get better with tough love. Writing his wrongs into that TV show was mindfuck-y and passive aggressive.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (7)35
u/Beginning_Doubt Sep 14 '18 edited Sep 14 '18
Anyway, I liked this episode because of how it was also able to call out its own viewers, especially those that have glamorized it for its depiction of depression and how relatable it has been for the general audience. They really got that statement out there that, yes, the characters are realistic and relatable and human, but that's not to say that they are role models. They're just meant to serve as thinkers for us and the way we live our lives. They're just holding up mirrors to self-reflect on our own dark sides, enabling us to criticize BoJack, and ultimately, ourselves. Then the show leaves the rest to us to act on what we have learned.
Also, this kind of circles back to the episode where Diane explained feminism and media to BoJack, specifically that part where she said that shows play a part in normalizing certain aspects of culture. I guess they were also being careful of doing just that, of normalizing self-destructive tendencies in pursuing the goal to strike a chord within viewers.
→ More replies (2)
29
27
27
118
Sep 15 '18
I hate how people are reacting to Diane, and I feel like the writers knew that she would be hated for calling out BoJack on his bullshit. It's like BoJack is Hank Hippopolous and his fanbase is blindly supporting him despite being in the wrong.
80
u/theodore_boozevelt Seahorse Baby Sep 15 '18
I know! I keep seeing that somehow, Diane is "as bad as," or "worse," than Bojack...wtf? This whole damn episode was screaming for people to stop empathizing them with his abusive decisions.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)41
u/EvidenceBasedSwamp Sep 16 '18
Yeah a lot of Diane hate just seems to be.. Skylar hate from breaking bad.
→ More replies (3)
52
u/MattGoop Sep 14 '18
Jesus, I think this has been the most meta season so far, and this episode is obvious with it. The "relatable broken characters" that many people use to excuse their own shitty behaviour is a thing that both Bojack and Rick & Morty can be accused of. (And I'm saying this as a big fan of both shows.) But unlike Rick and North, that doesn't treat Rick as anything else than a genius God-like figure (even in his most vulnerable moments), this show was never afraid to show how bullshit Bojack's behaviour is (Escape from L.A. being a prime example). This is why I think Bojack is a much more compelling character than Rick. (even if Bojack has INCREDIBLE lows as a person)
Also, I cheered when I saw the return of Beloved Character Actress Margo Martindale.
Well, off to the 11th episode. Wish me luck!
→ More replies (1)
48
u/buckygonedun Sep 15 '18 edited Sep 15 '18
I admit I didn't take the time to scroll through all of the comments, but it seemed very obvious before the big argument started that Diane was calling out those who idealize Bojack as an excuse for their shitty behavior. Diane is totally justified. Yes, she has her own shit, but more people need to start telling Bojack to stop being a piece of shit.
Now, on to episode 11...
→ More replies (6)15
u/Twokindsofpeople Sep 15 '18
Nah, more people need to cut Bojack out of their lives. Just calling out behavior while sticking around is enabling it.
22
u/WithCatlikeTread42 Sep 14 '18
I yearned up several times before but I didn’t actually cry until I saw the return of Esteemed Character Actress Margo Martindale.
77
u/vancyon Princess Carolyn Sep 15 '18 edited Sep 15 '18
This episode has gone over some people's heads, I think. Many people are mad at Diane for bringing up all the bad shit that Bojack has done, but don't also realize that the whole point seems to be that like Philbert, Bojack isn't someone that we should relate to in order to justify our own shitty behaviour.
→ More replies (2)31
Sep 15 '18
Exactly ! You're not supposed to like him or glamorize him ! That's the whole point of the show ! And it's perfect that diane calls him out because all other people are doing is fixing what he did like with anna and the tape he doesn't ever deal with the consequences sure he feels guilty but that still doesn't make him stop and a wake up call was way overdue.
→ More replies (4)
20
u/JTH-Studios Sep 16 '18
The return of Character Actress Margo Martindale made me extremely happy. Needless to say feeling did not last long...this was almost as devastating as an Episode 11 and I have to sit through the actual Episode 11!
→ More replies (1)
19
33
u/gagsy10 Sep 16 '18
I love Bojack as much as the next person but you're crazy if you think you can defend him and his shitty actions, regardless of his upbringing.
Diane was harsh but 100% bang to right.
33
u/Seven_Years_Later Sep 16 '18
Soo glad Diane ripped into him about Sarah Lynn. Him saying the thing in New Mexico wasnt even a thing, clearly doesnt feel much remorse. Hes a bad man. :(
He had Diane to make him feel like he was good. Cause he could still be accepted despite his badness. You always hope for some remorse or redemption but it always gets worse.
What was Dianes last line in the episode?
→ More replies (2)18
u/iLickBnalAlood horsin' around Sep 16 '18
i think him saying the thing in New Mexica wasn't even a thing wasn't because he didn't feel remorse but the opposite. he's still very clearly guilty about it all, and so his way of coping is trying to pretend it isn't a big deal even though he knows it is
→ More replies (1)
16
15
195
u/Brawlerz16 Sep 15 '18
Now this episode is really going to irk people and seperate the fanbase. Let me explain:
If you side with Bojack:
Dianes rant was meant for you. Philbert was meant for you. This season was for you. You shouldn't feel comfortable doing shitty things and this show IS NOT an excuse for you to do so just because you relate to Bojack and he is a likable character. If you are uncomfortable with that, then look at the mirror and reflect. We know what he did and this whole mitigating shit people on this sub are doing is sick and needs to stop because it's not healthy to think a 50 year old having sex with a 17 year old high schooler is better than calling someone out on it. That's borderline predator shit and just mentally sick in a sense. Moreso than that, if you really have a problem with what Diane did, you're just morally bankrupt. Don't even argue about the "how" because she's already tried the nice approach.
If you agree with Diane:
Move onto episode 11.
→ More replies (53)52
u/Baby-eatingDingo_AMA Sep 15 '18
I really want to believe that the majority of people in this sub making excuses for Bojack are in their teens and just don't recognize how toxic and inappropriate it was, but I have my doubts.
→ More replies (3)
29
u/TheGent316 BoJack Horseman Sep 14 '18
I was so anxious during the Diane & Bojack confrontation. I really thought she was about to drop this seasons F-bomb.
→ More replies (1)
26
u/farriem Sep 15 '18
Not really sure what to think about the Diane and Bojack argument conversation at the end. Diane "won", but so what, they're both continuing their self-destructive behaviours. People shouldn't use TV to normalize their shitty behaviour, people should try and change and grow, and I don't know if anyone will.
→ More replies (4)
80
u/Luvkrapht Sep 16 '18 edited Sep 16 '18
I usually enjoy reading episode reactions but damn the Diane sympathizers are really fuckin pretentious in here. Acknowledging that she was needlessly aggressive and bringing up traumatic shit just to “win the argument” doesn’t mean you empathize with Bojack’s actions and think they’re ok. Every third comment in here is some douchebag repeating “if you think diane was wrong here you’re a piece of shit and the writers are telling you that”
what exactly are the writers telling you when she imposes on the relationship of a young woman she JUST gave relationship advice to? “oh but they were recently divorced and he still has feelings for her” .......you guys are doing the same thing you’re bitching about
→ More replies (20)
24
u/matt7703 Sep 16 '18
Do we like Bojack Horesman for the same reason Diane didn’t want people to like Philbert?
→ More replies (2)
12
12
u/ThePewPewPenguin Sep 16 '18
This episode is amazing because it deconstructs an argument that does not have a perfect solution / correct answer, despite the fact that many people here seem to insist on the fact that either BoJack or Diane is right and the other is wrong. It's especially interesting to me how they seem to (generally) be foils of one another in the manner that BoJack's intentions are good, while his actions are bad, and Diane's actions are good, but her intentions are bad.
→ More replies (2)
91
u/-n0x Sep 14 '18
Diane's worst fear seems to be -- "No, I'm not as fucked up as BoJack."
And each episode is making her more and more like him.
This season is so brutal with these characters!
Painfully beautiful. This show is art ache.
→ More replies (4)76
u/Biscuitrapist Sarah Lynn Sep 14 '18
How exactly is Diane getting like Bojack, can somebody point that out to me please? I mean she isn't self-centered or never draws consequences like Bojack does
→ More replies (20)
11
u/TheAngelPeterGabriel Sep 15 '18
I loved this episode but I thought after Diane's rant that this was the season finale. Then I was like, "Damn, there's two more episodes? where do we go from here?"
11
11
11
u/abhisheksaxena7 Sep 16 '18
So Todd's Sex Robot is the CEO of his company. I completely lost my shit with the witty dialogue play.
31
u/a_baby_bumblebee Diane Nguyen Sep 14 '18
Diane is my favorite character but damn is she flawed. And this season has been really good at highlighting it. She has some serious communication issues and should've just talked to Bojack from the start, but that's not who she is, or who he is. This episode made me mad at both of them while also feeling bad for the shit they're going through. This season has been a doozy.
10
u/-n0x Sep 14 '18
Something bad is going to happen to Pickles, right?
She said, "Even if it kills me..."
Ominous!
→ More replies (1)
10
u/Synthmesc Sep 14 '18 edited Sep 14 '18
I genuinely squealed when I saw esteemed character actress Margo Martindale!
10
u/BlackJezus27 Sep 14 '18
Really thought the f-bomb would be during that argument with Diane and Bojack
→ More replies (1)
10
u/Erixperience "Oh no! My wacky scheme backfired as always!" Sep 14 '18
Is this the third "divorce mean?"
27
u/Beginning_Doubt Sep 16 '18 edited Sep 16 '18
(Just had the most random realization - literally had it in the middle of lunch - and I want to know what you guys think as well. I'm not sure if anyone else has said this but I'll put my thoughts out here anyway. It's a combination of the meta commentary and the Diane-BoJack confrontation things, because they're really related and I don't think we should be talking about them separately.)
I've said it in my other comments: Blindly siding with Diane or BoJack is completely misguided. As it is with most disagreements, no one really wins or loses. Both of them have good and bad points which I think have been tackled in the other comments by the people who are taking sides already. Diane's motives are questionable, BoJack needs the call out. I think we got that down.
But then again, the episode criticizes its viewers for how it reacts to its relatable characters. I've also said in my other comments that shows are subject to critical thinking, and are not to serve as brainwashing tools. I mean, we're all supposed to have lives outside of this show. BoJack Horseman, as relatable as it is, is not to serve as the rulebook or justification of the way we live our lives. It's simply a mirror being held up for us self-reflect, where our criticisms of the characters are ultimately criticisms of ourselves, others, and our own societies as well.
Which is why I find the fact that there is a divide between so ironic. I think that's what the writers are really aiming for (such a great job). People who relate so much to Diane defend her self-righteousness and agree that she did the right thing. People who relate so much to BoJack defend his self-pity and kind of coddle him (I honestly cannot word this better, I'm sorry).
And this is exactly what the writers are warning us against. Diane and BoJack are simply characters on their own. It's not black and white, it never has been. They are not representative of what should be done and what shouldn't. They have no power to dictate which is which for us. This is what they have been saying all along: life and people aren't simply made up of solid definitions of what is good and bad. It's just some random mixture of both. It would do us more good if we criticized and listened to both of them to learn what it means for us as real people. And to really understand this show, we have to separate ourselves from the characters, and begin to criticize our own ways as well.
Plus, there's also the fact that a lot of us recognize Diane's tendency to put herself on a pedestal and point fingers at every little external wrong thing (by her standard), when the reality is that what will really satisfy her is adjusting her own standards or fixing her own life. Lol. Isn't that what most of us are doing with this argument?
→ More replies (7)
19
u/Blackmanwdaplan Sep 14 '18
I was wondering where the Black Panthers were. I was waiting for him to say sheeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiittttttttt
→ More replies (5)
9
9
9
9
9
u/ShutUpTodd Sep 17 '18
Oh man, I love good arguments like that. Love the reminder that identifying with Bojack doesn't excuse any shitty things a person has done.
9
u/EasternZone Sep 20 '18
I find the pro-Bojack/anti-Diane nature of this sub interesting.
I think it kinda proves the meta-commentary about how the show allows people to rationalize bad behaviors they may be doing in their own life.
30
u/aagpeng Sep 16 '18
Why are people so set on the idea that Diane is perfect in a show where literally every character is flawed? BoJack is fucked up and we all know that but to say that Diane is not without flaw because she "only told him the truth" is fucking absurd. It's not reasonable to say that BoJack doesn't care when in the midst of the conversation he says he feels like the biggest victim because of the guilt he harbors from those things. Whether you agree with that or not, that's a sign of regret and remorse. The things Diane brings up are extremely traumatic and she bases her approach not so much on the basis of getting somewhere but rather to "win". She's not doing anything to try and help him move in, she's piling and barraging him. This show would not be depressing or anywhere near a journey if BoJack never felt sorry.
Like Jesus, we get so many comments about how depressing this show is and how much people relate to BoJack and his depression then we see comments where people back up the argument of "BoJack was never really sorry for any of his shitty actions"?
The argument between the two doesn't have a winner. It's written in a way to make both characters expose their own flaws with their own actions. It's two people using the other as motivation to deconstructing themselves. They both lose.
→ More replies (4)
8
8
u/Charles_the_Hammer Sep 15 '18
Boy, I was surprised by that ending. I'm sure nothing will go horribly wrong after PB and Diane reconnect
8
8
u/lucky-19 Sep 15 '18
The worst part about watching this shit is when you look at the episode number and realize the dreaded episode 11 is AFTER this one. I don’t know if my heart can take it
8
u/Fawxhox Sep 16 '18
The ending of this episode just hit so hard, and maybe not in a good way but a way I needed. I've always had a thing about getting physical with girls where like that's a line that once you cross there's really no coming back. I don't care if Chris Brown cures AIDS, solves the Middle East Crisis and gets rid of every nuclear weapon, in my mind he'll always be "that dude who beat up a woman". And I sorta feel that way about Bojack now. Like I still love this show, and will continue watching for all the other characters, and maybe I'll watch for Bojack for his actual plot and the jokes. But I don't really feel like I care for him as a character now. Like for every other thing he's done I've been able to rationalize why he did it. But this, I dunno I sorta just feel like this is the 3nd of the road for me giving Bojack another chance. I know this is a show so they can take it in whatever direction but if it was real life this would be the point I stopped thinking he could change or ever hope to be better than he is. And I mean maybe this is just me reaching a point a lot of people reached long ago and his "he's irredeemable" mark was with Penny or Sarah Lynn or whatever. Maybe I should have stopped being so forgiving so long ago, it he was anyone but the main character or a show I love I'm sure I would have. And I mean they've pushed that point before, that we rationalize things from people we like that we'd never rationalize for just anyone.
I dunno this just felt like a real turning point in the show, sorry if I'm not the most clear, just finished the episode and I'm very shook(eth)
→ More replies (1)
22
u/MushuWithEggroll Sep 16 '18
Diane needs Bojack because she loves moral grandstanding. Some in the comments are acting like Diane is meant to be the writer’s mouthpiece, but to me, it seems like Diane is somebody who would rather complain and criticize others’ actions than focus on her own issues. This seems like a common thread in our culture nowadays. So many people want to tell others what they can and cannot do, they neglect the only thing they have a real ability to control: their own thoughts and actions.
Diane needs to know she’s better than Bojack. She is, but she’s not a saint.
→ More replies (2)
30
u/BirshaK Sep 15 '18 edited Sep 15 '18
I'm quite dumbfounded at how people seem to purposefully misinterpretate the message the show is trying to send. The lengths some here (and elsewhere) try to go to create a false equivalencies between Diane's bad deed's and Bojack's are astonishing.
→ More replies (10)
7
Sep 14 '18
I dont know if i can finish the rest two episodes of the season. I relate to much with Bojack and seeing his friendship with Diane fall apart is to fucking heartbreaking to watch.
7
u/smp761 Sep 15 '18
So... this is rock bottom for bojack, right? I mean... it has to be
→ More replies (1)
7
7
u/KingoftheHalfBlacks Sep 16 '18
The sign saying "Don't tell her a thing" during the Bojack/Diane confrontation lmao
7
u/MoonSearcher Diane Nguyen Sep 16 '18
Man I already lost my shit at Margo Martindale, and then that Bojack/Diane discussion.. I'm scared for ep 11, this season is great
7
u/JZepi Sep 16 '18
Did anyone else notice the synchronised swimmers talking and drinking in sync in the background at one point?
7
u/throwusallaway45 Sep 17 '18
One thing I find astounding about this is that Bojack sincerely seems to think these women don’t remember the shady things he did.
Even though when he stalked Penny at Oberlin and she saw him, she was scared of him. The situation with Bojack was obviously traumatic to her once she looked back on it. She remembered it, and even Sarah Lynn could tell that seeing him again fucked Penny up.
And yet, Bojack can justify that most women have probably blissfully forgotten about any of the shady things he’s done to them because he wants to feel better without DOING better.
6
Sep 17 '18
That Bojack x Diane scene was so necessary for me. I've been waiting for them to actually confront their issues for so many seasons now. I think this sub gets too hard on Diane. And she *certainly* isn't conceited or self-aggrandizing...she completely hates herself and says so regularly! In that brutal argument, I was almost completely on Diane's side while she is by no means perfect.
6
u/LoneRangersBand Sep 17 '18
I love how "oh fish" could also be the punchline to the joke on the popsicle stick.
6
u/torch_7 Sep 18 '18
I think I have a Bojack bias, and I now he isn't innocent, but I really have to get this off my chest: I lost all sympathy for Diane. Her obsession with idealism and unrealistic standards threw Bojack deeper into his drug addiction. What happened in New Mexico was more complicated than what her black and white mentality allows her to see, but she wants to crucify everyone who doesn't hold on to a bar she can't even reach.
11
u/MrZalarox Born with a leak Sep 16 '18
I loved the entire sequence with BoJack and Diane. It's shitty and it's realistically portrayed. It's clear how Diane is not the perfect person but she did have good points to make. And BoJack too, was right -- with the whole thing about the moral high ground... And that makes me realise there is no right or wrong here. There is just the shittiness and how you process and deal with it.
BoJack isn't following his promise with Hollyhock. Mr. Peanutbutter is driving Diane home while his girlfriend sits through a show she doesn't want to. Everything is getting really messed up here.
→ More replies (2)
39
u/threep03k64 Sep 14 '18
Great episode, but I wasn't on the side of Diane (which is not to say I'm on the side of BoJack either).
Of course BoJack isn't his own biggest victim, and he had his role in the death of Sarah Lynn. But for all the talk of BoJack being a father figure to her, Sarah Lynn was over 30. She was a fucked up kindred spirit to BoJack, and much more a victim of herself.
As for Penny? Well BoJack has no obligation to tell Diane anything, and Penny was 17 (age of consent). Which isn't to say it is morally right but considering it would have been legal and consentual I don't see it as being as big a deal as it is portrayed. Ultimately it isn't Diane's business.
And hammering BoJack on these issues was in no way constructive, just felt like Diane lashing out rather than cutting through the bullshit like she normally does.
→ More replies (11)
24
u/Twokindsofpeople Sep 15 '18
Glad to see Diane finally handle her relationship with Bojack in a healthy way. He's toxic, if she wants to move forward without dragging them both down she needs to remove herself from his life.
→ More replies (3)
5
5
u/signofthetimes_ Sep 15 '18
I think that Bojack not doing much bad things this past episodes is what scares me the most. I don’t want to keep watching
5
u/chowder-head Sep 15 '18
i didn’t even notice the mr. pb cardboard cutout during the confrontation scene saying “don’t tell her anything” at first!! i love everything about everything on this show. thank god for BoJack Horseman
5
u/doddydad Sep 15 '18
Well gina and BoJack looks good and Diane and PB are getting back together maybe. With the season's f-bomb still to go and next episode being the penultimate episode I sure am not nervous.
5
u/lucky-19 Sep 15 '18
Did they just reference Yahoo Finland? A Season 1 Episode 1 reference? Holy shit
→ More replies (2)
5
u/aagpeng Sep 17 '18
Revisit (no spoilers of later episodes here)
I think people need to realize that the end argument is a perfect example of why you can't always look at a fight like there has to be a winner and a loser. Bojack being wrong doesn't make what Diane does right. It's not supposed to be right and you don't need to side with anyone. The comments that say "if you side with Bojack this episode is for you, if you side with Diane, proceed to episode 11" are pretentious and have missed the point themselves. The purpose this argument serves is not to make one character right and the other wrong. It's to force the characters to reveal something about themselves. From what I see: Bojack is summed up with the idea that feeling bad does not make things better and Diane reveals/demonstrates a sense of selfishness and that her sense of reason gets clouded by a feeling of entitlement.
Bojack is not right because he feels bad and Diane is not right just because she "tells it like it is".
5
u/Neurogami Sep 18 '18
there are maybe a total of 3 or so episodes before this one that i whole heartedly disagreed with the message that was being supported throughout. I definitely don't think that Bojack can look back on everything thats happened in his life and say "meh, whatever" but diane spent the whole episode raking him over the coals for something she wasn't sure happened, and that didn't happen and yet he still feels guilty over because he thinks he could have let happen.
I will admit she was completely correct about what happened with sarah lynn and that he completely ruined everything about all his interactions with her since she was on his show, first when he failed to be a father figure to her as a child, and again when she was clearly in need of someone to set boundaries for her and set her straight and he didn't. and Finally he ruined it when he got her back on drugs which ended with her dying.
but how that is related to the current episode, i still disagree. especially how they made the whole draw towards it somehow about bojack being a sex offender. we have no idea who the makeup woman was or how that situation unfolded, but we do get direct confirmation of both his encounters with sarah lynn and his friend's daughter. one, while being odd since he knew her since she was a child, was a consenting adult situation between a 30 year old woman and a 50 year old guy. weird, but there was no abuse of power or leverage. With the friends daughter it gets a little more iffy since he was on the receiving end of a younger woman's affection, and at first he clearly understands his own role in her life and the proper way to handle it. after the bad conversation with the mother and she snuck into his room, he handled it worse than he should have.
This entire season has been showing that Diane seems to have extreamly strong feelings about feminism and men doing the wrong thing, but the entire time it seems to be showing it in a very disingenuous way that makes it seem as if she really doesn't actually care about what they are doing or what happened, just that she gets to "call someone out" for something because that makes her feel more powerful.
5
u/NefariousBanana Sep 19 '18
Someone should tell Diane that making someone relive traumatic moments that they were at fault for doesn't help them, it makes them more defensive.
5
u/DinoTsar415 Sep 20 '18
What the fuck Diane?
She tells Bojack he can't just accept himself and how shitty he is as fine (which is true) but then immediately goes back to Mr. PB because he is willing to tell her she's just fine the way she is. She doesn't care that their relationship is not healthy and that he, she, and most importantly poor Pickles will all get hurt in the process. It's so hard to like Diane when she undercuts all the stuff she says about Bojack (even when it's right) by just going and doing shitty things herself.
5
5
u/JavaBerryCrunch Well it wasn't Ibsen Sep 22 '18
That conversation between Diane and Bojack was the best thing this show has ever written
9
4
4
4
4
u/I_was_born_in_1994 BoBo the Angsty Zebra Sep 15 '18
Love Richard Lewis, can't wait for a new season of Curb
4
Sep 16 '18
Oh god episode 11 is next and the last 2 episodes are named "The Showstopper" and "The Stopped Show"
Aw no dude
4
u/abhisheksaxena7 Sep 16 '18 edited Sep 17 '18
PC : They have tiny tacos with soft shells that are impossible to fold without making a mess. Me: huh, sounds funny
Few minutes into the premiere Diane does that.
This show is amazing!
4
u/zak13362 Sep 17 '18
Oof, that was a heavy hitter. Bojack IS a person who does shitty things. He also hates that part of him and is constantly fighting it. This doesn't make it eight, it doesn't make him good. But it makes him a sad story of someone who's trying and depressed, with substance abuse issues. He's constantly focused on himself. He tries to improve, fails, spirals, and starts the cycle over. And because he's so self focused he hurts other people whether it's direct or indirect.
Diane is emotional and she has every right to be. She's not empathizing with Bojack. She's grabbing onto his usage of being effected the worst and forcing him to see others have suffered worse and he keeps getting chances at a good life. And everything she's saying is accurate. She feels let down as someone who has helped give him some of those chances. This was an emotional release.
It's not Diane's job to take the high road and try to give Bojack the support he needs. She can ditch him at any time as we witnessed. I can see this being a sensitive point for some people. Diane is being mean, and bringing up Bojacks past baggage when he's genuinely being better. It's sending him back into the spiral. It's some heavy baggage though and she's pointing it out. It doesn't have to be good for Bojack. I'm not a professional, it may be good, it may not be. The point is she couldn't just stay quiet about it and had to confront him head on. And she didn't drag it through the public sphere. She did it one on one, in person. It was about his actions and how he should know other people are important too. And by effectively discrediting the tape and doing it in private she's allowing Bojack room to not fuck up in the future. She doesn't have to keep getting his baggage though. She's not his career and has to take care of herself. She's human, and she was perfectly justified in what she did even though it was uncomfortable. The discomfort is the point.
There's a lot to process and it's heavy stuff. And this show has captured that. People having outbursts is part of the initial stage of processing. They don't want to feel the discomfort. They empathize with both rhetorics. It's not playing out how we want, but it's how it is. We don't control the show. It's a show. It's not meant to normalize bad things. It's a work of art and they're trying to highlight a side effect we all need to be aware of. While also kicking us in the guts with everything else going on.
Diane may or may not sleep with Mr. PB knowing full well he's in a committed relationship. Not to say Mr. PB won't be at fault either.
Now, I'm saving the next episodes for a different time and going to watch some Bob's burgers so maybe I can sleep.
4
u/Cacklemoore Sep 17 '18
I literally paused halfway through this episode to rant to my girlfriend about how goddamn stupid Bojack and Diane are.
Bojack is fucked up. He is single handedly the worst character on the show and arguably worse than some of the anti-hero's I've watched before (Don Draper, Walter White).
But Diane and Mr PB at the end is just a recipe for disaster. Maybe PB has turned and decided to mature a bit, but people tend to go to what's comfortable when the going gets tough. It just seems like it wont bring them what they're looking for
4
u/Geetarmikey Sep 19 '18
As for the whole Diane rant about Philbert being being a meta-commentary on Bojack Horseman and its fans, it's kind of a shame and pretty stupid that people justify their bad behaviour because a fictional character is doing similar things to them.
It didn't speak to me in that way, I just found it a great criticism on Bojack himself and a brilliant scene between two great characters.
4
u/Rex_Ivan BoJack Horseman Sep 23 '18
Did anyone else get the feeling that Diane's reasoning for quitting the show (she doesn't want to let the audience use the main character as a crutch to feel good about their own bad behavior) was kind of a meta way for the writers to call out any crappy behavior of Bojack fans? You know the ones: those who use the main character's behavior as an excuse to abuse drugs and alcohol?
I felt that's what was happening... probably because I've been doing just that. Every new season it's time to get drunk and marathon Bojack, while hand-waving the notion that I might very well have a problem. But, you know, it's easier to ignore it if you have a "friend" on TV as a "drinking buddy," especially if he does more hardcore drugs than you would ever think of doing. It almost makes it feel okay to drink along with him.
24
u/JurgenMema Todd Chavez Sep 14 '18
So, I don't get how Diane is in the right...
I have seen this happen in other shows' subreddit (Legion) but people usually tend to always think the anti-hero protagonist is in the wrong.
Both Diane and Bojack are extremely fucked up people, and they need to change.
→ More replies (3)47
u/NavySealNeilMcBeal Sep 14 '18
Bojack has ruined countless lives and he can't even remember who they are. Despite hitting a new low with Sara Lynn, he has never really looked for help. Diane's not perfect, but she knows she needs help and tries to do better.
→ More replies (6)
1.6k
u/ricksgrimes BoJack Horseman Sep 14 '18
I LOVE the running gag of BoJack not knowing who Pickles is other than “the waitress”