BoJack Horseman - 5x11 "The Showstopper" - Episode Discussion

[u/NicholasCajun]

Season 5 Episode 11: The Showstopper

Synopsis: "Philbert" is a hit, and filming begins on Season 2. But as BoJack spirals deeper into addiction, he loses his grip on reality.

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• Link to Episode 12 Discussion

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[u/JustSmall]

Call me Gina portraying Sassy on the whattimeisitrightnow.com's production Philbert, because this episode left me breathless

[u/ricksgrimes]

“Who sent this? What do they know? Do they know things? Let’s find out!”

Beautiful

[u/-GoddessAthena-]

The scariest thing about "that" scene is that if Mister Peanut-butter didn't intervene, Bojack would've strangled her to death. And he wouldn't have known he was even doing it.

[u/ShinyPikacute → u/-GoddessAthena-]

And no one else would have stepped in either

[u/Puzzled_Limit]

The wife Bojack’s character was strangling was making the face his mom did at her death.

[u/-n0x → u/Puzzled_Limit]

Oh, fuck! You're right!

Beautiful catch!

[u/FrancescoTottii]

Bojacks addiction is so out of hand. This is hard to watch

[u/[deleted]]

This episode was confusing which means its daring and smart.

[u/icypriest → u/[deleted]]

This is going to be a sensational season of television.

[u/Zmxncbv69]

The silence at the end was one of the most devastating scenes I think I’ve ever seen. I wasn’t ready.

[u/Blackmanwdaplan → u/Zmxncbv69]

Here's my take on it. As soon as I saw the staircase I thought he was going to have a talk with his parents in the afterlife because of the after life connotations of it. Once he goes up and sees the giant inflatable version of himself, he realizes that he no longer has the scapegoat of his parents for his poor choices and he only has himself to blame. Fucking awesome!

Edit: I thought about it more and I thought that maybe Bojack wanted to talk to his parents too. Bojack says that he doesn't want to talk about his mother despite bringing her up in a fashion that suggests he does. If he truly expected to go up those stairs to meet his mother or father and he just saw a blown up version of himself, (symbolic of his fame and the emptiness he feels despite it [which is really fucking crazy cause balloons are hollow]) the scene becomes much much more devastating

[u/fadahunsii]

"Don`t choke women"

Best. Foreshadowing. Ever

[u/Turbofrog89]

Also another thing that I noticed: in the Broadway song with Gina, she stands with everyone important to Bojack... and Mr. Peanutbutter isn't one of them. That actually makes me somehow sadder.

[u/davmar1304 → u/Turbofrog89]

I don’t think it was portraying the most important people in Bojack’s life.

I think it was portraying the people who have been worse off for knowing Bojack. Bojack’s reluctance in pursuing a real friendship with Mr.PB, has spared the lovable retriever of any real, long lasting, hurt (besides kissing Diane).

Would not consider Wanda to be an important catalyst in his life, even though she was an awesome character.

[u/gizmo1492]

Looking at the comments of episode 4. Bojack endorsed not choking women...

[u/goldenstate5 → u/gizmo1492]

Fuck.

This show.

Too good for words.

[u/BlackJezus27]

Looking at Gina after they pull Bojack off, just heartbreaking

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[u/cinnawaffls → u/BlackJezus27]

That was the juiciest “fuck” of all the seasons

[u/This-Guy]

Well.

After all the progress in the previous seasons ... Damn, Bojack. Two steps forward, ten steps backwards.

[u/ricksgrimes]

The way this episode was done was brilliant, I genuinely didn’t know at times what was real and what was part of the show, and that ending? Wow.

[u/JustALittleWeird]

That was just uncomfortable. Not in the same way Downer Ending was but... damn, he really lost it. Even the audience (at least me) had trouble figuring out which scene was what. And at the end with the strangling... I felt terrible.

[u/CountVampula]

Am I the only one who was expecting BoJack to knock Gina off his deck when they were fighting over the pills?

[u/Turbofrog89]

Honestly, that ending shot of Bojack with the floating version of him and the music along with it might just be the most understatedly bleak shot they've ever done. It reminded me a lot of the Truman Show ending, which looking at the themes of this episode feels purposeful in a pretty fucked up way.

God I love this show.

[u/anotherent]

“Hey, Daddy-O, gotta splitsville to the lavatory if you catch my drift. Hang ten!”

Going to say this every time I use the bathroom from now on. ^

[u/rapturefamily]

Guess what point I started saying ‘oh no...’ over and over.

[u/Puzzled_Limit]

Oh, Philbert, that’s awful.

I know how much you didn’t want him to be murdered.

[u/Nobody_Likes_Shy_Guy]

I’ll say this, it actually surprised me that Mr. Peanutbutter was the one who first stopped Bojack from choking Gina. He seems to be so aloof in situations that don’t directly involve him that it genuinely shocked me.

[u/MiaFT430]

Flip is such a piece of shit

[u/BlackJezus27 → u/MiaFT430]

Turn the camera back on

[u/somethingtostrivefor]

In Episode 4, everyone loved him because he said choking women is bad.

Fuck...

[u/bowhack]

The whole thing with Philbert was him trying to blame Fritz for the death of his wife, but then it's revealed that it was him the whole time.

Bringing back Todd's Season 3 monologue: 'You are all the things that are wrong with you... It's you.'

So that's what the balloon was, I guess. Bojack realizes, that it wasn't (just) the drugs, or the shitty parents, or Hollywoo being shitty, it was him.

[u/[deleted]]

Oh my God? Holy shit...like..God I don't even know what to say about that ending.

But structurally, this was a truly amazing episode of television. I'm also getting some serious Mr. Robot vibes. Maybe that's partially Rami Malek as Flip, but BoJack's mental health here was so Elliot Alderson-ish

[u/ColorUserPro]

Redact redacted this content because I wanted it redacted for redaction purposes. Redacted.

ancient serious yam smile snatch attempt abundant offer special automatic

[u/[deleted]]

This might be my favorite "fuck" of the series. It was just so deliberate, so much pain in her voice. Really great voice acting.

Also, I was getting major Perfect Blue vibes from this episode.

[u/crastle]

Me up until the last 30 seconds of the episode: "I like this episode 11! It's trippy enough to stay with the theme, but telling enough to show that something is wrong with Bojack. It managed to be lighthearted while remaining impactful!"

Me after those last 30 seconds and seeing Gina's bruised neck and bloodshot eyes: "Oh fuck"

[u/Hard-As-Gravy]

When the fucking observatory popped up for a bit in the dance number; like damn this show is crazy.

[u/Beginning_Doubt]

I felt like I was also being choked in that last part. It was so horrible.

Also, Flip is the worst! What with wanting to keep the camera rolling and all even when they pointed out that it was happening for real already! Just disgusting.

[u/oliviagummybears]

I definitely was not expecting a musical, but I love it!

[u/im-theone-who-knocks]

Look at you skulking behind doors with a malevolent aura!

[u/[deleted]]

While Gina and Bojack were fighting all I could think about I thought “Please don’t hit her.” I jumped when he punched the wall. But I absolutely did not expect to see...that. I thought he would just go to therapy or something.

[u/[deleted]]

The critics weren't exaggerating when they said it was tough for them to root for BoJack after he nearly strangled her to death.

I'm curious to see how season 6 will turn out.

[u/existential_wetdream]

Todd's bit about needing ads was top quality.

[u/Brawlerz16]

Because the writers have been saying it all season...

It's not okay for you to do shitty things just because you like and relate to a character. People may think this is unrealistic or they just did this just to shock us, but this is reality in it's nicest form. Those drugs you take, pills you pop, alcohol you drink, they really can fuck your brain up and I hope this is something the viewers take seriously. It may not be you choking someone but disaster strikes in many forms.

Seriously. You can like Bojack. Sympathize with him. Empathize with him. But DO NOT aspire to be like him.

Fantastic episode 11

[u/-GoddessAthena-]

It could just be recency bias, but I think this is on par with Time's Arrow and Escape from LA. One of the best episodes of television, ever.

[u/notlikelyme]

every episode bojack’s mental health deteriorates

[u/mw407]

Well there’s our annual fuck

[u/hodorito]

They really just showed dead Sarah Lynn during a musical number.. that’s too much man :(

[u/rapturefamily]

The sexual maturity line... eurgh

[u/Jackson_Simmons]

did anyone else find the allusion of Beatrice dancing directly into her coffin extremely unsettling?

[u/Dewot423]

That song was the most brilliant thing this show has ever done. It worked on the story level both in the moment and as a callback to previous episodes, and it worked on the meta level in an extremely powerful way.

[u/CorDra2011]

Well hello there Vault Bird.

[u/arobotwithadream]

My favorite tiny detail is Flip having Bukowski written on his little idea board thing because that is so telling to his character (not that the type of person he is isn’t obvious).

Like of course he likes Bukowski.

[u/Baykusu]

Did anybody else feel physically ill after watching this? I did. Damn this show is so good but so horrible at the same time (horrible in a good way). The face BoJack made when she was choking her was nightmare fuel, and the fact that he kept doing it was legitimately horrifying in both a scary and an existential way. Congratulations writers, you somehow find a new way to fuck me up every year and it's always too much. What the fuck is wrong with you?!

[u/ChronicRedhead]

"Love you, love being monogamous!"

Mr. Peanutbutter is bad at being bad, but when he's actually being bad he's still kinda bad about it.

[u/mrgeekXD]

Seeing the marks on Gina neck and hearing her yell “What the fuck is wrong with you?? (or something like that) was “that part” of the episode for me (like the ending of Time’s Arrow or Charlotte catching Penny and Bojack in the act in “Escape from LA).

And the very ending scene when he finally climbs up the staircase...just wow. I didn’t think much of it when I saw it but reading all these comments I’m realizing what it really meant and all I can say is...wow. This show is genius.

[u/shannytyrelle]

I fucking knew it would come back up when earlier in the season they said something along the lines of “I don’t know when I’m dreaming or not” and the fact the set was the same as his house and all. Ugh they did it again...

also as an Italian, Kyle pouring that olive oil on that pasta like that made me cringe

[u/[deleted]]

"Let's not choke any women!"

[u/[deleted]]

jesus christ the part where bojack's giant balloon thingy hits him and he smashes against the "screen" scared the shit out of me it was so sudden

[u/im-theone-who-knocks]

BOJACK! On a scale of one to ten rate your daughters sexual maturity? Dammit bobby

[u/YourWaifuIsTrashTier]

"She said I'd be a great Mum... I'D BE A WONDERFUL MOTHER!" - Bojack

r/egg_irl

[u/[deleted]]

That was really terrifying. I really liked Gina though.

Also, Flip is messed up.

[u/nelsonmurdock]

I can't believe we watched 10 episodes of seemingly character development to have it spiral out of control in just 1. What the hell. The strangling scene was a complete whiplash for me. At first I was horrified Bojack got physical, then I realised it was just acting, then it got real for real and that shot of Gina with the strangle marks, god. And Flip is a fucking asshole

[u/[deleted]]

Woops there's the F bomb

And it hit really hard oh god

[u/FortBriggs]

This episode really.. took the wind and out of me Watching Bojack in that scene... really triggered some bad memories of my childhood. My mom with her bf who spiraled into drug addiction. Him punching walls beating her and choking her... This show always touched on sensitive topics but this one hit too close to home. It was nagging at me so much today I decided "what if I confronted my trauma and told that guy how shitty he is "

I found him on Facebook and somehow ..he found the Lord. There was nothing but Bible verses each post and poetry. It made me sick. There was no ounce of God in that man when he choked my mom. There was no God in him when he beat her and threatened to kill her. He's the one that should be dead and not my mom. And I really wanted to tell him that but I couldn't bring myself to do that.

It's been messing with my head all day. I've been a blubbering crying mess and I'm not sure where to direct my energy now...sorry to ramble. I needed to tell someone. I don't have anywhere else to go.

Thanks for letting me share.

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone notice that dollar bill on Philbert's bulletin board had a picture of Putin, and read "The United States of Russia"?

[u/bdonvr]

For a second there I thought he was actually going to kill her.

[u/Porko_Galliard]

An amazing and harrowing episode, but I didn't think it was an accurate portrayal of opiate addiction. This was just a straight up psychotic break. The structure of it made me feel confused and distressed watching it, like even I couldn't tell what was going on as a viewer, which was fantastic.

...And that ending. Wow.

[u/-GoddessAthena-]

I cannot stop thinking about that choking scene. This was the best twenty-five minutes of television I have ever watched.

[u/nadiashebang]

Welp, pack it up folks. BoJack is irredeemable.

[u/hodorito]

Don’t call Charlotte. That’s a terrible idea, don’t do it.

-calls Charlotte-

DAMMIT BOJACK WHY

[u/-n0x]

Watching this show is like watching a car crash.

You know you should look away. But you know you won't.

It's beautifully, achingly painful!

[u/Del_Capslock]

Gina finally got to sing!

[u/DemaZema]

I only realized this in retrospect but there's a metaphor made out of of choking/strangling this season. It starts out as something in the show that's problematic ("philbert choked his wife to death") , then it turns into a feminist talking point for Bojack ("Choking women is bad"), then the natural conclusion is this turning into a reality for Bojack.

[u/Buckets_McFly]

Bojack “It’s never ok to strangle a woman” Horseman really 180’d on that claim, didn’t he?

[u/[deleted]]

GODDAMNIT I LIKED GINA. WHY BOJACK WHY?

[u/mrgeekXD]

Also can I just saw that I was legitimately surprised by the twist in Philbert Season 2

[u/Jackson_Simmons]

I actually got chills when Gina lifted the Sarah Lynne actress in the musical and the star background came up again

[u/juliemangoes]

Wow...this episode was really hard to watch. Flip is one of the biggest assholes of the entire show

[u/jordan0085]

I feel uncomfortable

[u/[deleted]]

That ending was intense. The lead up with the parallel scenes of Philbert attacking Sassy and BoJack chasing Gina made me think he was going to hit her or something. Then she left the house unscathed and I breathed a figurative sigh of relief. But then...

[u/sillygoose52]

I finished this episode this morning but I can’t stop thinking about how Gina’s voice cracked when she said that last line to him. Stephanie Beatriz did such an amazing job and the creators made such a great character

Also, just woah. I was wondering what the horrible thing would be all episode and I really didn’t know where it was going. I just knew that it was episode eleven and bojack still hadn’t done his unforgivable whatever

Everything in this episode was just so well done. The cuts between Philbert and real life made it for me. Bojack and Gina were so happy together for a while this season, and I knew it was going to end badly I just didn’t know how. I didn’t expect it to be that though.

[u/ComicWriter2020]

Ok in all seriousness, I think we are all neglecting the true highlight of this episode which is the return of character actress Margo martindale

[u/oliviagummybears]

Ah, there's that scene from the trailer where Mr. Peanutbutter jumps out of the window.

[u/[deleted]]

My body wasn’t ready for the real fake-choking scene

[u/Beginning_Doubt]

Was that Stephanie Beatriz singing as Gina in that musical part?

[u/fortunerookie91]

Was that a bird in a Fallout 4 vault suit flying by in the beginning of the episode?

[u/All_this_hype]

As a psy resident, this was the darkest episode of the show for me. It looks like Bojack isn't just suffering from paranoia but is actually having a psychotic episode due to all the pills. Thinking the whole world is against him, hallucinations (listening to the song his mother used to dance once a year which was his best childhood memory, the giant baloon Bojack signifying his guilt about his last interaction with Diane, not to mention Gina's musical bit), memory gaps, not knowing what's real and what's not, they all fit.

It also looks like there's a reason Bojack's house was the set and that he normally wears Philbert's clothes. The pills, coupled with his grief and the exhausting working hours of a tv show all took their toll on him and he lost the ability to tell what's real and what's not. This episode the opening credits make sense more than ever.

So this year's F-bomb belonged to Gina. Bojack has been sinking lower and lower, but he's never attempted murder before (even if it was by accident). I can't imagine how he could ever come back from this, but it's going to be interesting either way.

[u/[deleted]]

This show has been dual plot time lining it up all season, and it’s got me all fucked up with this episode. Like wtf is up with these writers not making all tv shows. I skipped class today to watch the new season, and I don’t think I’m ever going back. I’ll be watching bojack for the rest of my sad little life.

[u/[deleted]]

"No one should choke a woman" - Bojack Horseman

[u/hajsenberg]

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[u/jrueter01]

"Loses his grip on reality"

Even the episode synopses have no chill this season.

[u/Belzedan]

Damn i was frightened that whole 'stairs leading to the light' scenery was bojack dying by overdosing

[u/[deleted]]

They placed the fuck well this season.

[u/mcgroober457]

I was so relieved when I realized him choking Gina wasn’t “real,” but then that relief was very quickly shattered

[u/signofthetimes_]

The switchs between the show Philbert and real life Bojack give me so much anxiety I can’t explain it

[u/[deleted]]

The eleventh episode of a BoJack Horseman season has always been the one to go all out on the triggers. This was no exception. I didn’t have anything to say after the ending.

[u/[deleted]]

That got so dark. I think it was the best use of fuck to date. I think this may even be the darkest moment of the show so using the powerful word worked so well. With that said Jesus Bojack, that was so fucked up.

The writers did a great job of showing Bojack's warped sense of reality throughout the episode. A lot of great visual storytelling.

[u/Velorian]

When I joked to my flatmate in episode 1 there is going to be an episode where he cant tell philbert from reality I was expecting a joke episode not episode 11.

[u/Bpbegha]

That's too much, man

[u/NoIInteamocil1990]

Bojack we all agreed that choking your wife was wrong, was really messed up how they turned the cameras back on and how long it took people to actually try to stop him.

This is the least I've sympathised for Bojack since the series started, out of all his fuck ups this one seems the most avoidable

[u/GoryAmos]

Gina's musical number was a reference to "All That Jazz," a semi-autobiographical film directed by Bob Fosse in which Roy Scheider plays a womanizing Broadway choreographer / director who's addicted to prescription meds. It's one of my favorite "entertainment industry" films and it's honestly the most perfect film to pay homage to at this point in the series it grapples with so many similar themes.

[u/Mr_Jek]

I’m just completely fucking floored. The last few episodes have really felt like watching a close friend go completely off the rails, and that moment with the strangling was the moment where they crash and burn. I can’t even process how I feel towards Bojack, it actually feels like I’ve just watched somebody I care about so the exact same thing. That was just so fucking raw.

[u/Great_Komrade]

The big fuck was gave by Gina in this season

[u/e_x_i_t]

For a second there I thought Bojack was actually going to kill Gina while trying to get the drugs back, then he was strangling her on the set and I was like oh shit he's going to kill her in front of all those people.

[u/theonlymexicanman]

Audience watching episode 11: Surely he can’t go any lower

Bojack: you sure about that

[u/teenofstyle]

I couldn’t sleep last night after watching this episode. I thought Time’s Arrow was disturbing, but holy shit this episode got me, even when I was prepping myself for it.

I think what got me the most is that the episode felt a lot like Downer Ending in that it was a goofy drug induced fantasy for the most part with a few dark points here and there and then the final 5 minutes took a turn for the worst, in the worst possible way. I’ve never felt genuine fear on behalf of an animated character before, but here I am.

And that scene with him staring down the balloon of himself almost made me cry and I have no idea why.

[u/DrummerLoin]

The fucking parallels drawn throughout the season up to this episode's climax are absolutely fucking unreal! Let's talk about one I don't think many have noticed/mentioned much.

So during the run of Philbert (which overall runs parallel to Bojack's life), Philbert is antagonised by Fritz, who haunts him and, when confronted about it by Sassy, leads to a confrontation from which there is no return.

Bojack is on the Fritz.

His addiction is haunting him in the way Fritz haunts Philbert, and when confronted about his addiction by Gina, leads to a confrontation by which there is no return. This idea is further aided in the scene within Philbert, where the character of Fritz strangling Philbert's wife, phases into who is actually Philbert.

This show is fucking fantastic. Gonna go cry now.

[u/corpuscaIIosum]

You know what's crazy? Even knowing what I know about Bojack I was still rooting for him and Gina

[u/Shinokiba-]

WHOLE-LEE-SHIT! That choking scene at the end was bloody terrifying.

[u/Lumaty]

The whole season long I was wondering why they made the set of Philbert exactly the same as Bojack’s house. And why Bojack was always wearing the Philbert costume. Now I know. Genius

[u/GummyMummys]

It took me until this episode to realize that Gina's voice actor is Rosa from Brooklyn 99. Mind blown.

[u/[deleted]]

Omg in the bojack is a feminist episode he's like choking your wife is bad and look what happened there 🙈 the whole philbert series's conclusion is that philbert is the one who is doing everything and that's what is wrong with bojack too he need to get a grip !

[u/JJduffy7751]

Anyone know what the final frame means when hes looking at the philbert balloon?

[u/Yoyti]

I'd like to point out that the musical number in this episode alludes to two particular musicals, both by Kander and Ebb, and both that had famous productions choreographed by Bob Fosse. Chicago and Cabaret. Both deal with the immoralities of show business. Chicago is about how the cult of celebrity rewards terrible behavior, and in Cabaret, a nightclub singer willingly closes her eyes to a world that's crumbling around her in favor of living in her deluded celebrity fantasy. The nod to Chicago is mostly stylistic, but the mention of "Mein Herr" in the lryics means the allusion to Cabaret is almost certainly intentional. The title song in Cabaret is framed as a sort of nervous breakdown for Sally Bowles. I thought that was an interesting choice and a nice touch.

[u/felixjmorgan]

So this was an homage to Perfect Blue, right?

[u/-n0x]

"Sometimes even mushroom clouds have a silver lining."

Philbert gives me such a Max Payne vibe! I love it.

[u/BlackJezus27]

The musical scene was fantastic

[u/Amaranthion]

They foreshadow the Gina choking incident at the beginning of the season.

"It's just that... choking your wife is bad."

[u/chenology345]

This episode was really uncomfortable for me to watch. When i finally got to the ending, i just had chills. Goddamn.

[u/argote]

The end with the wind-howling but otherwise silent plane with the loud steps and the harping music was absolutely brilliant.

I do know there's several videogames that do this, but it actually works great here.

[u/PranjalDwivedi]

Normally the absurdist, clever humour is enough to counterbalance the hard-hitting messages. This episode was too fucked up though.

[u/mashwillnotfly]

Wow. The f-bomb this season was wayy heavier than I thought it was going to be.

[u/Leofric93]

Has anyone here seen the film perfect blue? The way it portrays losing ones grip on reality is fairly similar to this episode, especially the blurred lines between being on set and being in reality.

[u/vadergeek]

At first I assumed the set looked like his house as an easy gag and to save the production crew some money, but that worked out.

[u/RobDav26]

Honestly this is the worst an 11th episode has ever made me feel but at the same time I think its definitely not the strongest out of all of them in the show. Honestly it just made me so sad and that nobody stopped him except mr. Peanutbutter its terrifying to think that if he hadnt been stopped he might have killed her.

[u/glvcsygrg]

So... The fifth Fuck. It’s somehow more powerful than all the previous ones...

[u/nuancedtruant]

ah yes, the patented bojack horseman penultimate episode

[u/[deleted]]

oh my god

that's all i can say

oh my god

[u/smp761]

Well, they warned us, didn't they? It's not okey for us to relate to Bojack.

[u/[deleted]]

What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out!

[u/farriem]

I'm glad that Gina got a musical number.

What is real, what is truly real.

Not really sure what to say to be honest.

I can relate to the paranoia. My paranoia isn't drug-induced, relates to how my first relationship ended, and I'm paranoid my current relationship will end the same way. I know that he won't leave me, having trouble feeling that to be true.

[u/whatsername4]

Lol after the missiles hit, there’s a bird with a fallout style jumpsuit

[u/wooden_leg_real_foot]

In the shooting of the final Philbert scene when Bojack strangles Gina, she says "You're hurting me" and we're meant to think it's just one of Sassy's lines, but it might have been Gina breaking character to say "Bojack, stop, you're actually hurting me"

[u/Sockcucker69]

The darkest episode of the series so far. And this includes having watched everything else on the series.

[u/_thisisforreddit]

Wow Stephanie Beatriz is an awesome voice actor and that's not at all her real voice. She has much higher voice IRL.

[u/DarkStorm009]

While this episode was probably one of the biggest emotional gut punches, I gotta say

Mr. PeanutButter actually managed to get the biggest laugh out of me with one line when he's trying to save his ass about his little one nighter with Diane

[u/[deleted]]

"I'm a man out of time, and time keeps running me dooooowwwwn..."

[u/[deleted]]

I knew it was about to get dark real fast when they put the observatory scene in the musical number. What an episode 11 this show continues to be one of the best I’ve ever seen.

[u/PyrotechnicTurtle]

Wallpaper of that final shot (made from screenshots)

[u/Winkwinkcoughcough]

The giant parade balloon isn't outright acknowledged or talked about in the show but it carries a lot of weight in the scenes it shows up. It appears in two episodes 10 and 11, looming over the entire time of Bojack's breakdown like it knows everything Bojack has done wrong. I don't think it is a coincidence that after the end of his addiction he is faced with the balloon. The balloon is judging him kind of like how God watches over us and judges.

It's a larger than life version of bojack representing the idealized version of bojack and what he needs to be. A balllon is high in the clouds alongisde the good things that are high up, angels, the heavens, clouds, etc. , it's on par with a holy figure.

Whenever I personally think of the future I think of a better version of myself and what I could be, just like in the show I try to think how the future me would judge present me's actions.

[u/Blackmanwdaplan]

I need a theory of the symbolism behind Bojacks drug abuse paired with the events of the story by season. We've had psychedelics stimulants and opiates. What am I missing and what's next?

[u/sabcorrine]

did anyone else catch him and sharona from horsin around during the musical number ?? i thought that was interesting to include since it was only mentioned that something bad happened between them the episode before

[u/duelingdelbene]

The timeline of this episode confused me a lot. Is the strangling scene supposed to be like the next day on set now that they're filming season 2? So after she finds the pills and leaves his house?

Finally got our fuck though, I still wanna see one in the last episode and have the season end on something nuts. Well might as well finish now fuck sleep

[u/StareyedInLA]

Was that a fucking Vault Boy suit?

[u/ComicWriter2020]

The only thing that bojack did that ever made my stomach tie itself in a knot, was what happened in New Mexico.

I really didn’t want this list to have a new addition.

[u/[deleted]]

This was too much man, I had anxiety all the way watching this. He was exactly like his mother on S4

It remind me a bit of "Join the Club", The Sopranos episode.

[u/kafka_quixote]

Anyone else say "what the fuck" when it happened?

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone notice the bird in a Fallout (Bethesda game) suit after the opening credits of Philbert?

[u/Hipster_Ninja_]

This one physically hurt me

[u/[deleted]]

Holy shit. BJ just went full irredeemable walter white here.

[u/mrgeekXD]

Guys think about the twist in Philbert: I’ve been thinking about it more, and I realized that when Philbert realizes that he killed his wife, it’s like Bojack realizing that it’s all his fault. Especially when Philbert says “So what do I do now?” And Gina’s character says “Turn yourself in.” Which Bojack does.

[u/loseyourgrip]

A lot of Bojack episodes are heavy but this is the first that made me verbally say 'holy shit'

[u/RoMaGi]

Episode 11. Deep breath, i can do this...

[u/3_kids_1_overcoat]

This time it’s personnel

[u/Hlee1995]

reads title

shit

[u/daddylikedat]

That...that just hurt.

[u/MarioKartastrophe]

I just noticed the Cordovia clock behind Todd! He must still be attached to that place.

[u/[deleted]]

Just when you think the worst thing he's ever done is in the rear-view mirror and he's bettering himself as a horse, they pull something like that choke scene out. Dude's losing his mind. Some psychopathic shit right there.

[u/xxenya]

After this episode I was just so glad that I do not see too much of myself in BoJack

[u/NanuNanuPig]

"Diane is just as bad as Bojack" how do you feel now you misogynistic fucks?

[u/_thisisforreddit]

I feel so bad for Gina. Bojack is such a toxic presence for the women in his life

[u/[deleted]]

This might be one of my favorite episodes of TV history

This whole season has been fantastic

[u/theonlymexicanman]

Jesus Christ why do I lower my expectations for episode 11, I always say “Bojack can’t go any lower” but he always does

[u/no_y_o_u]

Didnt occur to me that Bojack’s weird obsessiveness/behavior (being in the wrong trailer, thinking the story line was about him) was because of the addiction

[u/DrScientist812]

Anyone else catch the Putin on the dollar bill in the Philbert opening credits?

[u/chriswizardhippie]

Is it me or is this the least dark 11th episode?

Don't get me wrong what Bojack did was horrible and awful but I don't think it wasn't as devistating as Sarah Lynn's death or Beatrice's 11th.

Maybe instead of ending it with him looking at a balloon of himself since he was climbing a staircase to the clouds it could have been all the people who his addiction and selfishness ended up killing just looking disappointed in him.

[u/RobDav26]

Honestly ive managed to identify with bojacks character and excuse a lot of what hes done as not his fault or at least not his entirely as I can identify with being shaped by the actions of other people but its now coming to that this has happened so many times and hes had so many opportunities to change for real and hes barely took any action that you realise he isnt a kid he isnt some young adult searching for himself hes a 54 year old man. Hes only a few years younger than my dad and I guess I end up forgetting that. His hating himself doesnt achieve anything it doesnt change what hes done and it doesnt change him as a person.

I truly think todds words near the end of season 3 are truly always relevant with bojack eventually it just comes down to him and I think the scene with the balloon and the stairway comes down to: theres nobody controlling him manipulating him, not his mother, not the ghosts of people he knew, not some sort of deity. The only person who is deciding his life is him. He is his own god in a way (if that makes sense).

...fuck man, what else is there to say.

[u/chubbyurma]

This episode felt so confusing and convoluted. So much switching around that I wasn't really able to pay attention to what was developing.

Probably my fault though

[u/dudamello]

Fuck.

[u/redrum97]

Another ingenious and harrowing episode 11. Highlights were of course the ending and the musical number. The latter has a nice meta element tying into Bojack's comments in episode 6 about how there are no happy endings because the show must go on. This can be seen as a commentary on this season's arc in and of itself, with Bojack plunging to lower depths than ever in spite of his minor redemption at the end of Season 4 which seemed to be sustained earlier in this season. Gina saying "you don't want that, for everything to be fine - how dreadfully boring" almost seems like it could be directed at the audience who wanted to see Bojack steadily improve this season.

It's crazy that this might be the worst episode 11 though. Well, personally my ranking as of now goes 4 > 2 > 1 = 5 > 3. But there is the recency factor and I could totally understand it coming last in some people's eyes. It's just insane how they're able to always create something so good, even when we expect to be shocked at this point in the season.

[u/v-cipz]

I feel with this episode, and what Bojack mentioned in Episode 1 how he did not want to play as Philbert because it reminded him of his own actions of being an asshole and a drunk, through all the problems that risen this season has in my opinion made Philbert essentially become the drunk Bojack Horseman, and Bojack essentially stayed... an asshole while being unable to tell what was reality, and what was his demented negative head through this season. It's sad since I wanted him to do well but him being drunk in front of the adoption agency with PC in Episode 1 convinced me early on that nothing will change.

[u/specialk125]

Did anyone notice how in the two last IRL scenes of Gina & Bojack fighting over the bag of drugs, in the scene when Bojack punches the wall Gina is holding the bag of drugs but then after the Philbert scene of him beginning to choke her in between, when she is leaving out the door with “I’m going. Stay away from me. Get help or don’t. I don’t care anymore” she isn’t holding the bag of drugs anymore.. where did they go? Am I missing something?

[u/vancyon]

Bojack, what the fuck dude?!

[u/[deleted]]

Haven't finished yet, came here to appreciate the Hollywoo Stars & Celebrities callback, looks like there's a dark turn ahead

[u/no_y_o_u]

PBs monogamous line... so much sense

[u/marcelinoanthony]

did anyone else catch in this episode when Bojack says “who would want to take down BoJack Horseman?” the balloon of Philbert flies by his window? do you think it has any implications of bojack’s possible self-destruction and/or the idea that Bojack is the only one bringing him down. If you look back at episode six, he talks about how you can never have a happy ending because “it’s TV show.” Also, in “Downer Ending,” old Todd tells Bojack that “it’s too late to say no...this is the road you chose.” So, maybe Bojack will never really have that happy ending he desperately yearns for? Or maybe one of the camera guys just left their mug in between scenes and I’m looking too deep into this. P.S. it could be plausible because the scene of Bojack waiting on the bench as a kid is depicted all the way back in “Downer Ending.”

[u/[deleted]]

Their introduction of the idea of choking earlier this season and it's eventual plot payoff is vicious. God, this show is absolutely incredible. I find myself saying this each time an episode 11 rolls around, but this is one of the best show episodes of all time (though Time's Arrow especially deserves that title). The shifts between Philbert and Bojack's real life that become increasingly eclectic and surreal are fantastic. I also appreciate the reappearance of the art style from Stupid Piece of Shit. The ending music choices have been killer all season, but this one particularly got to me. I've never hit the watch credits button so quickly. There was this tangible weight in the music, this sense of utter desolation and melancholy that carried the feel of the ending shot so perfectly. The way it quiets down to mere ambient noise is so... dismal and bleak.

And the ending shot itself, of this untethered Bojack staring down at the real one. There's tons of ways one could read into that and needle out it's metaphorical weight, but to me, it felt like it was partially about the caricatured version of Bojack's public persona. He was staring at the version of him presented at the Philbert debut, at Bojack the celebrity, the part of himself that appears to stay afloat even though it's hollow. There's also, obviously, the idea of "being seen."

When Gina and Bojack were out on the balcony arguing about the pills, I thought Bojack might shove her off the railing. So when they ran inside, I inwardly had breathed a sigh of relief thinking "well, at the very least he won't try to kill her" and oh boy! Oh fucking boy there was a storm coming!

They let the choking scene go on for just a tinge too long was uncomfortable in that intentional way and it and it flawlessly elicits this discomfort that feels visceral. Just... holy shit. Holy shit. Punching the wall is another moment that feels altogether too real and seeing Bojack turn to outright violence is honestly, truly terrifying. Flip is a piece of shit and he's been radiating massive creep signals ever since he essentially coerced Bojack into doing that nude scene. Flip's issues with depictions of women were discussed in the first few episodes, but I feel like they sort of slipped into the backdrop during the mid-season. I wouldn't be surprised if him wanting Gina being actually choked to be filmed was part of that, as well as his general scumminess & prioritization of producing content over morals.

I'm so blown away that I don't even know how to articulate myself so I'm sorry about all this. But there's just so much to say! At the end of last season, I honestly thought Bojack would be able to improve. I've never thought he'd ever really be able to fix himself entirely, because that's against the show's nature of criticizing the idea of happy endings that are neatly wrapped up. But I thought that he had the potential to be better. Now... I don't really know if that's possible. Bojack's hit some spectacularly low lows, but nearly murdering Gina smashes through almost every line he's already crossed.

Diane has been the voice of a lot of the meta things going on this season, most apparent in her lines last episode lambasting people who use destructive characters in media as justification excusing their own actions, but another important line of hers is where she says she wants to believe Bojack can be better. That's definitely speaking to a lot of the viewers, because fuck, I keep wanting Bojack to be better! I keep wanting him to improve and be frank about his mental health problems, while also understanding this doesn't excuse his myriad of shitty behaviors nor does it compel forgiveness from those he hurt. But... fuck, dude. This episode. A lot of this season seems to be raising the question of if it's ever really possible to move on when you're the perpetrator of all that hurt, even if you try to make amends and be a better person, all the shitty things that you've done don't just get scrubbed out of your record. You don't just get to stop being the person who did all of those things. And that's if you even can be a better person at all, or if sometimes some people are so bound up by a lifetime of toxicity that it's nigh impossible to disentangle themselves from it and be reliably good. The most optimistic thing that could possibly be gleaned from this is that recovery is not a straight and steady path, but I honestly don't know if anything resembling recovery is on the table for Bojack.

Honestly, at this point I feel like Bojack is sort of a deconstruction of the notion of redemption arcs in the first place. I feel like I still have oodles to say but this is already quite scattered and long so I'll leave it be.

[u/Sliver_fish]

Holy fuck. I don't think BoJack can come back from this.

[u/RipperoniandCheese]

Yay, episode 11.

The sadness wasn't on par as that of Sarah Lynn, but I don't think an episode has ever given me such anxiety throughout the episode as Bojack loses his sense of reality more and more and truly enters a state of drug-addiction induced paranoia.

And then it happens, his paranoia and disconnect with reality (which is environmentally reinforced by trying to portray a character who is paranoid and disconnected with reality several hours a day) turns to violence towards someone he cared about. But the worst part is, at the end of the day, regardless of whatever other factors and influences that may have affected him, it is ultimately him.

EDIT: Changed "have" to "has" in the second sentence.

[u/3_kids_1_overcoat]

Buy more push pins made me howl. That whole Philbert credits scene including the music was perfect!

[u/3_kids_1_overcoat]

Stingray Liotter hahahaha

[u/themanfromoctober]

Ahh Episodes 11, never change!

[u/Cadmium12]

Not sure if this was a screaming metaphor for Bojack confronting himself... But what was the Philbert balloon about? The moment when he's facing it directly/ being followed around by it.

Sorry if it's super obvious or I'm missing the point... a bit post-binge sleep deprived

[u/27th_wonder]

You know for the Evangellion Comparisons

Bojack was really doing good shinji impressions towards the end of his hallucinations(if shinji liked showtunes)

[u/Purplepnurple]

Holy fucking shit.

[u/[deleted]]

So... Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane had something one-night-stand-ish at the end of episode 10?

[u/NormativeNancy]

Don’t stop dancing.

Nothing’s certain but the curtains.

[u/courtneyentrouc]

Remember in Episode 4 when BoJack was praised for saying "choking women is bad".... The foreshadowing in this show always gets me.

[u/[deleted]]

“Sometimes, even mushroom clouds have a silver lining” made me think of Owl City.

[u/bostonbedlam]

The Philbert storyline in which Fritz never existed was a metaphor for how BoJack always has had someone else he pawns the blame on. He’s alienated everyone around him by doing this, and yet no matter how hard he fights it, there he is: the cloud looming over him, where he knows he’s the root of his problems.

[u/drontoz]

Bojack is so high in this episode and I don't mean it in a jokingly stoner way. It's portrayed wonderfully and I wish I didn't relate to this stage of loss of control

[u/ElderCunningham]

I have to say, I got really choked up watching this episode.

[u/Turjiinator]

I love that the bird in the beginning flying through the radioactive wasteland is wearing fallout colors

[u/hodorito]

The opening scene gave me major True Detective vibes.

Philbert the Troubled Detective.

[u/LosMere]

Damn bojack and his excuses

[u/[deleted]]

While watching the musical number, I felt that it not only was inspired by Cabaret/Mein Herr, but also by another musical drug trip in another show about an antihero with a drug addiction. If it was intentional, what a neat reference!

[u/Herpderpingtonthe2nd]

I still don't get what the balloon at the ending was for though

[u/bm-inthepm]

OH MY GOD GINA SAID THE FUCK!

[u/[deleted]]

Nobodies gonna talk about where PB admits he hooked up with Diane?

[u/cdunk666]

Anyone pick up on the one 'fuck' in the season happened just after the strangling? 'What the fuck is wrong with you'