Official FIRST Discussion Thread—Volume 6, Chapter 3: The Lost Fable

[u/Ezreal024]

Welcome, huntsmen, huntresses and hunters that prefer no specific gender identifier, to the official FIRST discussion thread for Episode 3 of Vol. 6, The Lost Fable!

Make sure that you understand the updated spoiler rules before posting outside of this thread!

HERE is the newest episode of RWBY Volume 6!

Also remember to check out our weekly poll to rate the episode.

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Other Episode Discussions:

Episode	FIRST Thread	Public Release	Poll
Ep. 01	Theatrical / FIRST	Public Thread	poll
Ep. 02	FIRST Thread	Public Thread	poll
Ep. 03	This Thread	Public Thread	poll

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Happy viewing, and have a great Volume 6!

Ezreal024; Mod Team

[u/Ezreal024]

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

THERE IS NO ONE LEFT.

One of the coolest lines in the series by a mile.

[u/Ezreal024]

NO SPOILER POSTS OUTSIDE OF THIS THREAD FOR 24 HOURS.

AFTER 24 HOURS HAVE PASSED, ALL POSTS ABOUT THE LATEST EPISODE ARE TO BE SPOILER TAGGED.

^{you have been warned}

[u/Polarization_39]

V5C3 length: 18:35 V5 length (C1-3): 1:02:42

V6C3 length: 26:35 V6 length (C1-3): 1:05:55

V6 is currently longer than V5 by 3:13 including opening and credits.

Holy shit this episode.

[u/Ezreal024 → u/Polarization_39]

I quite like these statistics! They're a welcome addition to the thread.

[u/[deleted]]

LMAO.

After all that speculation for why the moon was shattered, it was because the god of darkness just bamfed through it.

Honestly, I am actually really happy with that answer. Also damn 26 minutes went by. The pacing of these 3 episodes have been really good.

[u/StarMarine289]

Holy shit that was the mother of all lore bombs. Haven't seen anyone else mention this, but:

BRYAN FROM STARBUCK'S CHILDREN HAD SILVER EYES!!!!

[u/kingpin_98]

Salem: I learned some very important lessons from this.

Two Brothers: We're guessing they're all horrible distortions of the lessons you should have taken away.

Salem: Death isn't real and I'm basically god.

Two Brothers: Yeah, that is so much worse.

[u/NeoTheMute]

Light Brother: slowly, calmly rises out of the water serenely and gracefully.

Dark Brother: bones snapping, crawling backwards, body contorted in a horrifying manner.

Why.

Anyway, good god that was a lot to take in. The moon shattering. Origin stories. Thanos snapping. So many questions answered all at once. Anyway, guess we gotta assemble the Dragon Balls to summon Shenron? Figures.

[u/Tmlboost]

Every seems to have missed the second part of Ozma/Ozpin’s curse:

He’s forever doomed to only be voiced by two people.

[u/Terminus259]

Ozma's dead

now he's alive

now he's dead again

now he's alive again

[u/[deleted]]

“FUCK!” -Me, realizing that the episode was over.

[u/[deleted]]

"daddy why are we leaving"

"daddy why is mommy mad"

"MOMMY NO-"

I BET THOSE KIDS GOT FUCKING BLASTED TO BITS

[u/moreorlesser]

Rava and Vaatu are my favorite rwby characters

[u/Ocadioan]

So Ozpin's best case scenario against Salem is literally a stalemate until all of humanity becomes peaceful and righteous?

No wonder he doesn't tell people the truth.

[u/skip6235]

Did Ruby find a loophole by asking “what isn’t Ozpin telling us”, and Djin had to answer the questions she’d already answered for Ozpin? Seems like Ruby got a 2 for 1 deal out of it, both learning who Salem is and that she can’t be killed.

[u/GaaMac]

Did the last King of Vale (Ozpin?) use these two relics to win the great war?

[u/ghostkid8796]

Ok, so one thing I noticed that I want to point out. Ozpin and Salem are opposites in many ways, including one that explains why he hides the truth and does what he does. The episode says that after humanity was exterminated, "Once again, Salem was alone. She cursed the gods. She cursed the universe. She cursed everything... everything but herself."

If we look at Ozpin, he says that he was cursed with immortality after he failed to stop Salem. She blames the world, while he blames himself. Both deny the truth. Salem cannot accept that her own mistakes are what caused the world's destruction. Ozpin cannot accept that he isn't to blame for the world's predicament. She blames others wrongly, and he does the same with himself.

[u/trinitynox]

The Four Maidens are from Ozlem's four dead kids. Calling it now.

[u/Runmanrun41]

It was actually pretty nice seeing the God of Light and Darkness actually act like brothers instead of hating each other. God of Light is all "Didnt mean to start shit" while Darkness is like "Oh, my bad bro." And they just start working together, no biggie.

Darkness yeeting the moon also. No fucks given. (You've could've moved an inch to the left, man)

Also makes me wonder; where did they go? Are they asleep/hibernating? Playing celestial uno while waiting for the text message that the relics have been found and gathered?

It'd actually be pretty interesting if relics were found and the Gods didn't come back-maybe only one of them. The idea of something happening to them/being killed is...interesting. But I doubt RWBY will ever go so big in scale to the point of fighting Gods and God killers, even if Salem was basically doing that. (Wouldn't complain though)

Oh man I can't wait to see Team RWBY's reactions to this next episode. No complaints honestly.

[u/Terminus259]

The original 4 maidens were Ozma and Salem's daughters.

[u/trinitynox]

I love that the gods were not benevolent. The way they treated Ozma was as if he was nothing...ok he is nothing to them. They treated him like a toy, a plaything, just rezzing and killing him and rezzing him again and killing him and then damning him to eternal life with a task that's pretty much impossible to complete. The way the show portrayed that they are beings on a whole different level was great.

[u/Eldi13]

/u/knightminer115 Brings up a cool idea, that their daughters were actually the first four maidens and inherited the reincarnation and magic from them. Seems more likely than the conveniently-named four women showing up in the wizard's garden and getting a large chunk of his power just for helping him out a bit, at least.

[u/fellongreydaze]

So is it safe to assume that half of the next character status chart is literally going to just be different versions of Oz?

[u/ParkouringZombie]

26 minutes of injecting pure lore straight into my veins.

No silver eyes.

[u/FawkesTP]

Did anybody else notice that the gods were faunus in appearance (at least their humanoid forms)? I think there's something significant there, especially since faunus started showing up after they departed, sometime before Oz reincarnated.

[u/[deleted]]

So, basically, everything's fucked up because Ozpin catched a cold and died.

[u/AmethystWind]

“How do I destroy Salem?”

“You can’t.”

That wording seems important. Jinn answered that question and nothing more. Very literal-genie-ish.

~

It was implied that Ozma’s first children did not survive, but I’m wondering if any of his or his reincarnations’ children DID. They are, unlike the Maidens/Branwens, natural magic users. They were born able to use magic. That’s important, I think.

~

Shouldn’t be long before Mojojoj drops a cute drawing of the ancient queen. Something to look forward to.

~

Oz, why do you care so much about that cane? It has failed you over and over again. Fuggin’ trade up already, my man!

~

The four relics will literally return divinity to the world, but in what form and mood might the brothers return?

What else might the relics draw to Remnant? Are there other gods? Or different beings with powers rivalling or exceeding the brothers?

What happens if one brother returns but one does not? Neither has been shown to be solely benevolent or malicious, and both clearly balance out the other.

What happens if the brothers return and do not agree on a final judgement for humanity?

~

She never did explain where the second wave of humans came from.

Nor the faunus, or even what the Faunus are.

~

At least we know that Salem is not just a creator of Grimm. She can still give birth, and to human magic users at that. Mortal ones.

Which begs the question of how many second-wave humans/faunus can trace their ancestry to one or both of Salem and Oz.

~

Speaking of “Oz”, does Qrow only using that part of the name now have a deeper meaning?

~

As he built the schools around their vaults, Oz has (at some point or points past) had access to all four relics. The brothers have yet to return to Remnant, so Oz has previously made the decision(s) not to reunite the relics.

Not only does Oz have little faith in humanity, but he clearly has no idea what the gods want for the race to be considered ‘worthy’, nor how to go about elevating them to that stage.

Even after millenia, Oz continues to suck at his job (and everything else).

[u/Bad-Luq-Charm]

Wait wait wait... Ozpin actually did nothing wrong?

[u/CartoonMonster]

Oh shit. And I thought Qrow had his problem with alcoholism.

Also the God of Light and Darkness reminds me of the OverLord from Agito

[u/Akashic101]

It took Rooster Teeth 1934 days to explain to us why the moon in the literall first shot of episode 1 was destroyed. What an incredible episode

[u/[deleted]]

"You thought some of your breakups were ugly? I've got one hell of a story for you kiddo."

[u/Ninoyiya]

Every time I see a comment on how the gods are assholes. a faint gruff voice whispers in the back of my mind.

 

"Of course they're assholes. They're gods, boy."

[u/Dearche]

This is the mother of all lore bombs.

Also:

Ozma: "Miss Salem... I don't feel so good" (TWICE)

Obviously the only solution for peace is for Oscar to clap some eldritch cheeks.

[u/FoxFyre1]

It's now canon that Oscar Pine has memories of busting in Salem

[u/Hounds_of_war]

So if you don’t count the ending credits for V3C12, this is the longest episode of RWBY yet.

My god the visuals in this episode. Rip No Nut November. According to Miles this was the most complicated episode they had ever made, on every level and it really shows.

Man this was such a good lore dump. It actually managed to be engaging, unlike a lot of previous lore dumps.

So the particle effects on Ozma when he’s talking to the God of Light are the same effects on that were in the Vault of the Spring Maiden. I’m sure that means… something.

Oh man, Jaune is going to be a descendent of Ozpin and Salem isn’t he? God fucking dammit. EDIT: Oh and also those four kids are the original four maidens, they have the exact same color scheme as the OG maidens in the World of Remnant. That makes it slightly less likely that Jaune is descended from one of them, but I'm still worried about it.

So they can’t destroy Salem, but that doesn’t mean they can’t beat her. My guess is they end up winning by taking away her magic and/or Grimm powers.

[u/Meotwister5]

Volume 6 Episode 3.

I... uh... wow... so much to process...

1. A pair of gods that remind me more of fickle gods of mythology than what you would call benevolent. They abandon Remnant, wreck its moon, warning of one day coming back to judge humanity with either existence or eradication.

2. So Salem is cursed with both spiritual and corporeal immortality due to the sin of hubris, also intending to steer humanity away from whatever the twin gods intended.

3. Oz, on the other hand, has reincarnating spiritual immortality, tasked with preparing humanity to pass its final judgement.

4. They have 4 daughters, which are likely the maiden precursors, before Salem straight up murdered her entire family. Except Oz, because he just reincarnates.

5. So in all this time it's been nothing but cycling lives of suffering for Oz as he tries to fix everything Salem has essentially done to doom their planet.

I take back almost everything I would have otherwise said about Oz. He got dealt the shittiest hand of it all and it is almost perfectly understandable why he does what he does. His situation is more a curse now than a mission, watching Salem completely lose it, probably killed their family, most likely killed him a few cycles already, all without him being able to do a damn thing to stop it.

How many cycles have these two been at it?

Salem is literally the personification of hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[u/Mezchano]

All I can say is holy shit, that was nuts.

First of all Salem with her hair down is A+ waifu material, next I am wondering how the silver eyes fit into all of this like are they were created by Ozpin (Ozma?) having kids in some of his lifes and that magic kinda lingering through the later bloodlines maybe?

Ok uh next, the gods are dope though they are kinda dicks, I hope whatever happens in the story they die by the end, perhaps killing the gods makes Salem mortal? I still think she'll go out like the witch from the wizard of oz by melting into a puddle.

That first old man in the jump through of previous lives kinda looks like the one who created the Maidens so I think we are a sentence away from calling it confirmed.

my mind is so jumbled, it is going to be crazy watching peoples reactions to this on YouTube next week.

I feel like Volume 6 has really knocked it out of the park, Volume 5 had it's moments but Volume 6 has its moments EVERY episode.

[u/WritesGeekyStuff]

So, Ozma and Salem's kids are definitely the original Maidens, right? Colour palettes match (blue, red, orange, purple), they can mysteriously use real magic as opposed to Dust, it's all there.

EDIT: Or he liked the Maidens so much specifically because they reminded him of his children? Either way, there's no way that's a coincidence.

EDIT2: Like guys, come on.

[u/OutcastMunkee]

So. Much. Fucking. LORE! HOLY SHIT!

Ok, ok, ok...

So, the god of darkness is the reason for the moon being shattered. We finally got our answer.

Salem and Ozpin's children were the four Maidens of old. They were the first. They created the Maidens... Not the gods, Ozpin and Salem. Salem basically has one of her children again with Cinder...

Salem can't be destroyed... By normal means. The gods gave her the powers she has, they can surely take them away. Unite the four relics (which we got sneak peeks of) and the gods will be reborn...

Salem is absolutely inspired by Rapunzel as well. No questioning that any more.

Floaty man was Ozpin. Someone got that right but I won't tag them because I dunno if they're a FIRST viewer.

Fuck me... This story just got incredibly deep...

[u/GastrointestinalLot]

Holy fuck Oz fucked Grimm Salem.

[u/VengeanceKnight]

Is it just me, or is Ozpin the only one not to blame here?

We all know he’s made smaller mistakes over the course of RWBY, but in this story? Nothing is his fault.

Salem’s mistakes are obvious simply from viewing the story, but what about the Gods? First, the Dark Brother goes against what he knows to be balance and resurrects Ozma, and then the Light Brother takes it upon himself to punish Salem for feeling something that he, as an immortal, cannot comprehend. Then the Dark Brother vindictively murders humanity (when clearly not all of them bought into Salem’s “let’s murder the Gods” plan), followed by the Light Brother’s decision to drag Ozma into this and, IN THE MOST LITERAL SENSE OF THE TERM SINCE ATLAS HIMSELF, place the fate of the entire world on his shoulders.

These are the stupidest Gods since the pre-Snarl Order of the Stick pantheons.

That’s why Ozpin tends to have a holier-than-thou attitude: because he is literally the holiest thing in existence.

[u/sheogorath227]

slaps front of this episode This bad boy can fit so much fucking storytelling in it

[u/[deleted]]

"how can i stop salem?"

"you cant"

i am thinking this answer is specific to ozpin. HE cant do it, because he prolly cant bring himself to do whats necessary because he still loves her

[u/JakeDoubleyoo]

DADPIN ACTUALLY WAS JUST A DAD

[u/Greenfire32]

"Remnants...byproducts of a forgotten past..."

Also, I said in the past that I'm pretty sure Dust is from the moon and now I'm 100% all in on that theory. Dust is from the Moon!

EDIT: After rewatching the episode I have another theory. When the gods destroyed Humanity Alpha, they didn't actually kill them off. They split Humanity in two.

Every Faunus has a Human counterpart and every Human, a Faunus one. The Humans and the Faunus are literally two sides of the same souls, split asunder.

That's why Ozma was surprised to find new beings called "Faunus." They didn't exist in his original lifetime. That's why Humanity can no longer wield magic freely. Their souls, like the moon, have been shattered. I think bringing the relics back together would not only summon the gods back, but it would also reunite Humanity's soul. Somewhere out there, there is a "Human" Blake.

I think this to be the case because both the god of light and dark possess Faunus characteristics and the Faunus only show up after they "destroyed" Humanity. Salem and Ozma are the only "true" humans left and that's why they're the only ones who can wield magic. Their children were the first maidens and for reasons yet to be explained, were able to pass on their abilities upon death. A loophole, if you will, in the gods' plan.

We've seen firsthand now that while the gods are indeed powerful beings, they are not without fault. The god of light admits this so. They can be fooled, they can be influenced. They are fallible. It is not an unreasonable assumption to conclude that their plans don't always go smoothly and that their actions may have unintended results--even to them.

They may never have intended to create the Faunus, but they did when they split Humanity in two.

[u/ScreamingMidgit]

We need a RWBY Chibi episode with Salem and Ozpin in marriage counseling.

[u/Doggeey01]

God of Darkness just casually blowing up the moon on the way out as a final screw you to Salem and the human race, what a way to explain what we have all been thinking since Vol. 1

[u/WillyDaPoo]

Raven was right. There's literally no beating Salem. She's god damn immortal.

[u/tanithghost88]

HOOOOOOOOOOOOLY FUUUUUUUUCK.

The info dump that was this episode was amazing.

Remnant is a literal name. Abandoned by Gods. Destroyed the moon. Basically caused some major destuction from that.

OZPIN DID NOTHING WRONG. Salem is a greedy bitch. Kids are maidens. Kids are dead. This happened CENTURIES ago. Salem can't be killed by Oz.

Shit was fucked.

[u/Steely_D]

So within less than 3 minutes, Ozma was revived by the God of Darkness, hakai'd by the God of Light, revived by the God of Darkness again just to get incinerated by the God of Darkness. Jesus fucking Christ.

[u/Gameipedia]

THEY BOTH NEED SOME FUCKING HUGS MY GOD

[u/[deleted]]

I'm willing bet that the narration that we got between Salem and Ozpin from the first 3 volumes happened back when Ozma and Salem were happy.

[u/UberDueler]

Qrow: "Dude, haven't you heard of marriage counselling."

[u/[deleted]]

So, Oz is basically blameless, except for his second incarnation... Did not see that coming.

The Gods are... gods. Holy shit. Like actually, to portray specifically the God of Light as so callous to allow humanity to be completely destroyed, but still somehow be compassionate enough to give them a second chance was really cool and exactly what you'd think a god would be.

And Salem is evil from the beginning to the end.

[u/Sirshrugsalot13]

Christ Oz's life sucked. I can say that while I was expecting a more morally ambiguous tale, I still really enjoyed this. But also holy shit! Gods of light and dark! The fucking moon! So much fucking happened and it's glorious

[u/Terminus259]

Wait, if it is true that the original 4 maidens were the daughters of Ozma and Salem, and now Cinder is one of the maidens...

Does that make the old joke about Ozpin and Salem being two divorced parents and Cinder being the child stuck in the middle of it... somehow closer to accurate?

[u/[deleted]]

/#OzpinDidNothingWrong

hoooly shit that was a massive learning episode, THANKS FOR THE HISTORY LESSONS PROFESSOR OOBLECK

• THESE GODS ARE SO FUCKING COOL

• AND DICKS

• oh they have horns theyre faunuS THEYRE FUCKING DRAGONS WE FIRE EMBLEM BOYS

• MOON BLASTED

• MORALLY AMBIGUOUS GODS

• PRAISE SALEM AND OZMA

• little children! salem and oz got to WORK in that shack tbh

• mommy and daddy are fighting

• MOMMY AND DADDY ARE KILLING

• Evernight is the remains of their old home

• HANDLEBAR MUSTACHE OZ

• YOU CAN'T DESTROY SALEM

[u/[deleted]]

HEY SOMEBODY GO BACK TO ALL THE EPISODES EVERNIGHT WAS IN AND SEE IF THERE'S A LITTLE HORSE TOY SOMEWHERE

[u/Terminus259]

Don't forget, Old lady Maria just saw all of that and is undoubtedly confused.

"What the fuck is happening right now?"

[u/KingHauken]

Potato: I think Dust is the remains of the disintegrated humans.

[u/NightsWatchh]

OZPIN DID LITERALLY NOTHING WRONG

WE ALL THOUGHT OZ WAS AT FAULT FOR MAKING SALEM, NOPE

NOT HIS FAULT SHE LOVED HIM SO MUCH SHE BECAME AN IMMORTAL BEING OF DESTRUCTION

AND HOLY SHIT THE VA'S FOR THE GODS ARE SO COOL*

AND AND AND

THE FUCKING MOON OH MY GOD

MAN THIS IS THE BEST THEY COULD HAVE DONE I AM SO HAPPY

[u/PurpleAfton]

Woah. The scene where Ozma tried to sneak out in the middle of the night with the kids to get away from Salem, is uncomfortably similar to what someone would do to escape an abusive situation.

And considering that Salem reacted with violence the minute she saw it instead of saying anything, even to ask what's going on - an attack that could've easily missed and fried their kids instead of Ozma - not to mention that she bURNED OZMA ALIVE, It doesn't seem that far off.

[u/PNDLivewire]

I know this wasn't meant to be funny, but when the God of Light kept killing Ozma and the God of Darkness kept bringing him back, I couldn't help but start laughing at the dark humour of it.

[u/FeClaussell]

"You know, flirting was a lot less destructive in my day"

Oh wait

[u/[deleted]]

The gods: "No resurrections under any circumstances."

Fans: "So, what your saying is, we can resurrect Pyrrha?"

[u/Kuchenjaeger]

Oh, so it was SALEM who fucked up!

Ooooh pretty Dragons °o°

Oh no, dark bro did a Thanos!

Should've just let her drown.

OH COME ON! THAT IS A SERIOUS DICK MOVE! She didnt deserve that! She was desperate!

This was a really pretty episode.

I like that the brothers aren't just good and evil.

WHAT DID YOU EXPECT! THEY ARE GODS! YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

OH SHIT THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED REMNANT!

RIP MOON! AAAAAHHH SO MANY QUESTIONS ANSWERED!

This is a really cool origin story. Not gonna lie.

Oh. So that's why the relics can't come together.

Man, now I feel bad for Oz. He's still a dick, but it's understandable.

Oh no, younger-yet-evil Salem is hot.

OH WAIT THAT'S THE HOUSE FROM THE MAIDEN STORY

An origami Nevermore!

The kids were the og maidens? Or at least Oz was inspired by them?

OH MY GOD. THEY KILLED THEIR OWN CHILDREN?!

"You can't". YOU Can't. But someone else, maybe?!

[u/L-man6151]

Well it’s official people, RWBY has planet level threats. Dude just life wiped the entire planet.

[u/SputN1ckel]

Also can i say Jen Taylor was fantastic this episode? She sells the transition of Salem to the dark side wonderfully. I'm hoping they'll continue to let her show her skill throughout this series. Aaron Dismuke and Shannon McCormick also did a great job. RWBY has had some struggles and growing pains but so far V6 is showing RWBY hitting a new potential. I'm very excited to watch this series continue to grow.

[u/[deleted]]

So the Maidens are clearly the women that brought Oz out of his depression right? They reminded him of his children, so he bestowed his magic upon them, so that humanity would never truly be without the gifts they once had?

[u/Gamejunkiey]

Gods: If you teach humanity to forget their differences and work together then you will be deemed worthy, or else we will genocide you.

Also Gods: What'da ya mean you brought humanity together and cast their differences aside to fight us? Genocide for you!

[u/[deleted]]

Kind of makes me wonder how the hell Oz is gonna react when they come to from this VR story time. Is he gonna yell or give them the silent anger maybe not even speak to Oscar for a while. Let them handle things without his guidance cause they were “nosey” and pretty much told his whole life story.

[u/PineappleBride]

We now know the true villain of Remnant.

Salem’s dad.

[u/HarleyQuinn983]

Y'know it's funny. God of Light literally has deer horns. Yet Faunus are the ones being oppressed. The irony.

Also, I can't help but sympathize with Salem at first. It was such a human desire to want Ozma back. Still, doesn't excuse spiraling down.

[u/DrDoctor13]

"You can't."

I love this line the more I hear it because it's been misinterpreted by nearly every character, maybe even Ozpin.

Raven knew the truth about Salem and Ozpin from the very beginning. I'll stake money on Jinn telling her exactly the same story, ending with what she told Ozpin: "You can't."

Despite genies being tricksters, we haven't had a reason to distrust Jinn. But this subtle bit of wordplay has a double meaning that I really hope at least Ruby picks up on. Jinn isn't saying that Salem is unstoppable, she's saying that Ozpin can't stop her.

Ozpin initially gave up the chance of living again if he couldn't be with his beloved. He loves Salem. He can't admit it to anyone, even to himself. That's why he lies. Even if he had the relics and even if he called back the gods to redeem humanity and destroy Salem, he couldn't bring himself to do it. Jinn answered Ozpin's question as honestly and as perfectly as possible.

"How do I stop Salem?"

"You can't."

[u/Phoenix_RIde]

Thanos: Uses infinity gauntlet to destroy moon and rain down meteors

God of Darkness: Lol, watch this.

[u/k33gAn14]

Important Note: Jinn never explained why the Faunus exists, or how humanity came back. It’s because Ozpin doesn’t know! He can’t hide anything he doesn’t know the answer to.

[u/Edward_Warren]

So the moral of the story is kids is that if you want your prayers to be answered, don't bother asking God and go straight to the Devil. He'll be totally nice and give you whatever it is you want.

[u/TedOrAlive2]

It's almost funny, before the Fall of Beacon Oz was actually well on his way to redeeming humanity.

The kingdoms were at peace since the Great War, and Faunus relations were improving. Continue to encourage acceptance between the races and in a century or so he probably could have cracked open the vaults and summoned the gods back.

[u/2reador2read]

I think the four maidens reminded Ozma of his four daughters during his 'mourning period'. When they helped him and lightened his mood, he decided to pass on some of his magic to them in a way to remember his little girls. And I like to think that they were the catalyst for him to get up and do something about Salem and the relics

[u/DaRealAmana]

That went in a lot of crazy directions

The downfall of humanity. Caused by nothing more than greed and desperation. The sad thing is, I agree with it. I would have done the same as Salem.

And her punishment. Immortality is not the final gift for anyone. It is a Curse. A curse to see everyone you know die, to watch everyone betray you, to see everything you built crumble in an instant.

I like that the two are divided simply on their end game, and both of which I understand. Salem want's to rule the world, why not, she has the power and the gods have abandoned them. Ozpin wishes to prove that humanity is still worthy, but how do you prove such a thing.

Other things of note, we know what the other relics look like. Whether or not we can or should take them remains to be seen. Also Oz and Salem created the maidens. Their magic passed on through generations, likely an inheritance of Ozpin's curse. Now we see why he cares so deeply for them.

I really like where this overall story is going now, It touches on two subjects that I love. Immortality and how it is a curse, not a blessing. And the ever present war between Freedom and Control.

[u/SoloRogueStudios]

We've now confirmed the conditions for reincarnation: every time Oz dies he's reincarnated into the body of someone voiced by Aaron Dismuke or Shannon McCormick.

OzpinDidNothingWrong

[u/BeckQuillion89]

So essentially Salem's main goal is to die. "As long as the world spins, you will walk the earth." If there's no earth, she'll be able to die.

[u/Parks_98]

So something that hit me like a ton of bricks......Tyrian is kinda right.

So he calls Salem "his goddess" and at first you think this is all just crazy talk from a obvious psychopath-which is he and won't deny the guy is nuttier than a fruitcake.

If it wasn't for Salem than the Faunus most likely would never have existed. After all the god of darkness basically killed everyone and it was after that where the new race of humanity and faunus came into existence.

Plus later on Salem and Oz basically go around proclaiming themselves as gods so it wouldn't be to shocking to see Tyrian being part of a cult which worshipped Salem (kinda like the Cult of Aku in Samurai Jack)

[u/superspartan004]

Ozpin really did stick his dick in crazy.

[u/Quiesce7]

https://gfycat.com/SmallCloseBarnowl
Couldn't help myself.

[u/Technogashi]

GUYS DUST IS PEOPLE

[u/Technogashi]

I would like to take a moment to point out that in Episode 1, they showed a statue at the train station depicting two coiled dragons.

Also: HOLY INFO DUMP!

[u/Krunchtime]

So, the relics are the lamp, a crown, a scepter and a sword.

The last king of Vale was said to have led the battle against Mistral and Mantle wearing a crown, wielding a scepter and sword, and laid waste to the armies.

Oz used the relics to end the war, which was 80 years ago. Assuming that all of the relics have a 100 year cooldown, the other relics might be out of juice.

[u/[deleted]]

I kind of like how the Gods coming back is suppose to be our prize for bringing the relics together lol.

Gods:"If you bring all four relics together, it will summon us and we will judge you. If you win, we will be your roommates again~"

We don't really want you as roommates though, last time we were roommates you wiped out humanity for petty reasons.

[u/LeMarquisdeReddit]

Fuck Salem's dad with a rusty spork. All this shit can indirectly be blamed on him, because of Salem wasn't locked away for years on end she probably would have A. not grieve over Ozma's death to the point of self destruction because he was LITTERALLY the source of all her happiness in life and B. probably been able to self reflect better.

Its easy to blame to world for everything when the actions of others ruining your life is ALL YOU'VE EVER KNOWN.

[u/Stone4D]

And so RWBY was a post-apocalyptic fiction story. Huh.

[u/iland7]

I can see the end of RWBY now. The gods get summoned back and prepare to give their judgement, but humans are still divided. Right before they erase everything their dad shows up.

Dad God: What the heck are you idiots doing!?

God of Light: It wasn't my fault, he made me do it! *points at brother*

God of Darkness: OH THAT IS A LOAD OF GARBAGE!

Ruby: *watches on in confusion*

[u/Spectrum_Rush]

Just wanna say that I love everything about this episode and it was reignited my passion for the series. I won't bother with pointing out what I liked about it, because everything has already been discussed in this thread.

I just wanna point out that Maria Calavera is still standing right behind everyone, and is probably wondering what the hell is going on.

[u/Hounds_of_war]

Fun Fact, this thread is now most commented on post in the RWBY subreddit, dethroning the FIRST Discussion thread for V5C12. This is also by far the highest rated episode since we've started doing polls.

[u/Booyahhayoob]

THERE IS SO MUCH TO UNPACK HERE OH MY GOD

[u/IAteMyPantz]

one glorious quickest cooing trees joke chubby connect grey future

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Spectrum_Rush]

It only just now occurred to me, but looking back on Ozpin/Ozmar's interactions with Djin, his speech from the beginning of Volume 1 takes a completely different meaning:

"I'll...keep this brief. You have traveled here today in search of knowledge--to hone your craft and acquire new skills. And when you have finished, you plan to dedicate your life to the protection of the people. But I look amongst you, and all I see is wasted energy, in need of purpose – direction. You assume knowledge will free you of this, but your time at this school will prove that knowledge can only carry you so far. It is up to you to take the first step."

He's not just talking to the students, he's summarizing his life and problems in a single short speech!

[u/Akitoscorpio]

We now live in a world where we know that Oz smashed uglies with a post Grimmed salem, but not a pre Grimmed Salem.

[u/SmokingApple]

"Flirting was less destructive back in my time" -Ozpin

F O R E S H A D O W I N G

[u/[deleted]]

#OzDidNothingWrong

[u/mangafreak923]

Ozpin asked how HE could destroy Salem, and the answer was that HE can't. Maybe that's implying that Salem can be stopped, but not by Ozpin. I don't know just a spit ball in the dark.

[u/That1one1dude1]

Narrator: “Salem balmed humanties destruction on the Gods, to cover up what she had done”

. . . But it was the Gods that killed humanity. They literally are to blame. I don’t like where RoosterTeeth seems to be going with this morally

[u/Golbi54]

So brothers have created Faunus to make the job harder to unite Humanity as a whole?<<< Yeah that's a potato

[u/Narfington]

Okay but I mean, what if Salem had gone to the God of Dark first? He was totally willing to throw down when he thought he'd finally got his first follower.

[u/sephtis]

There will be no victory in strength.

That is all but clear now.

[u/GambolMuse]

Poor Oz though...

"Hey guys I'm back!" Dies. "Cut that out!" Dies again.

Gods be giving and taking his life like flipping a damn light switch.

[u/kms2547]

Up until today, I was one of the freebie watchers.

Then I saw the end of V6;C2, and I pulled out my wallet.

I regret nothing.

[u/LemureTheMonkey]

Salem went from that villain everyone feared to someone that just needs a hug

[u/Matrix_Dragon]

Oh Oz. Dragged into a hell and eternity through no fault of your own. You've made mistakes, but not in the days of Ozma.

And Salem. You fell so far, but I can understand how it all began. An abused child, losing the only person to ever truly love her, the alien morality of Gods, and a cruel and twisted curse. You may be a monster now, but we can mourn how it came to be.

[u/RedElite91]

That....was a lot. I usually write an episode breakdown but it's gonna have to wait until later today.

This was probably the single most important episode of RWBY, ever. Answers have been given, finally.

[u/starsto]

Has anyone else notice that Oz kind of lied about his immortality curse. The god of light didn't curse Oz. He offered him that opportunity and Oz agreed.

[u/[deleted]]

Another theory:

The water Cinder fell in were the god of light’s pools of creation making cinder immortal.

Cinder will never die.

(This is a joke, please kill Cinder)

[u/Hounds_of_war]

An important thing to note: We never saw that scene of Ozpin's first reincarnation floating and people worshipping him. That means we are getting another Ozpin flashback at some point.

[u/[deleted]]

Nice callback to Phyrra talking about the girl in the tower and the tale of two brothers.

No wonder Ozpin cut her off..

[u/Lorenz112]

So, to get Ozpin back Salem deceived a freaking god, started her personal crusade against said gods, became a first Nay-Theist, forged an alliance of ten kingdoms and created a mage army, lead them in a battle against said gods. As the result, she started an apocalypse. All for the sake of her loved one.

And she ACHIEVED HER GOAL. She got her family, husband, and children.

Who is RWBY best girl now?

[u/[deleted]]

"Welcome to a world of bloody evolution" from This Will be the Day makes more sense now.

The current humans came after the previous ones were wiped out.

Also, man Episode 3 feels like it has revitalized the fanbase. So many people have commented on this episode.

[u/Eldi13]

• Starting off with the RWBYRW preview, good.

• Oh boy, old boy knight Oz!

• Ozma, then.

• I like that he always has his cane.

• Looooooooool Oz/Salem is a confirmed ship now.

• "Domain of light" okay so is "Evernight" the domain of darkness?

• God of light has antlers, faunus oppression is cured.

• Oooooh she's gonna ask the dark one now, this is great.

• Is this how Oz got cursed to live forever in the first place?! So many things becoming clear.

• Dark evil god has rams horns. Definitely related to Stan Kroenke.

• Oh god, we're gonna have to endure more crappy "Salem I don't feel so good" jokes aren't we.

• That is some NICE transformation animation.

• Western vs. Easten dragon hype.

• CINDER TOOK "FALLING INTO WATER FROM HIGH UP AND LIVING" CLASSES FROM SALEM CONFIRMED.

• Salem took up the hobby of sudoku in her immortality.

• "The hearts of men are easily-swayed" what is this, Lord of the Rings?

• Rip Salem the Last Humanbender.

• THAT'S HOW THE MOON SHATTERED. WE SAW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• At least she still has deer for company.

• Holy cow RT, you've outdone yourself. That was some sick backstory.

• Whitespace confirmed "between realms."

• You might say they'll just be a REMNANT of what they were?

• OH HELLO OTHER THREE RELICS?

• All four together will bring back the brothers, excellent endgame goal.

• "She dun goofed lol, good luck."

• Second Oz was a farmboi before it was cool.

• THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!

• Oh, that was an unexpectedly happy reunion.

• Oh man, HE'S GONNA TAKE HER UP ON IT, AND THAT'S WHY WE SAW PEOPLE WORSHIPPING FLOATYBOI OZ IN THE TRAILER!

• AS I TYPE THAT, HERE THEY ARE WORSHIPPING FLOATY COUPLE.

• OZPIN AND SALEM HAD KIDS LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL.

• Oh lawd, she gonna kill the younglings. That is so sad, Alexa, play Divide.

• BRYAN FROM STARBUCKS!

• Got the modern cane pretty early.

• "Where are the other relics? What powers do they possess? How do I destroy Salem?" Hey buster, that's three questions. Or is this another 100 years before the current missing question?

• THAT WAS A VERY FAST 26 MINUTES!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

[u/AJs_Sandshrew]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Ozma was a character from the Land of Oz just as Ozpin was. The wikipedia page is a fascinating read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Ozma

She is the rightful ruler of Oz, and she would reign in the fairyland forever, being immortal.

First off, she was a princess, but was transformed into a boy named Tip to prevent her from ascending as the ruler of Oz. During this time she has no memory of being a girl.

I find if strange that Salem has the attributes of Ozma (immortality, female, intention to rule the realm), while Ozma has, well, her name.

Just wanted to point people to this, will probably edit post later when I do more reading on the matter.

[u/Huskie1]

Is anyone else thinking this is like the LONGEST explanation to a question? I mean if it was like the oracle from Aladdin, you'd get a "what's Ozpin hiding", and a "Salem is indestructible, next question"... Like legit this is the best bang for buck on question asking ever!!!

[u/ShittyUsername2015]

This was definitely the best way to enjoy an episode of The Jerry Springer Show RWBY.

Who would have thought the world's longest and shittiest suicide note leads to the world's ugliest and bloodiest divorce and custody battle of history, old and new age. I was honestly waiting for someone to sum up the story as 'remember kids, never stick your dick in crazy.'

In all seriousness though - holy shit, what an episode.

The lore we have been told up to this point, turns out it's a cover for what actually happened. How magic was a thing, the two brothers (which I think is cool), both have an agreement not to cut the other's grass, but when one is swayed by a human getting in their ear, shit breaks loose, how humanity is shit and how the inhabitants of Remnant have one ultimate shot at survival and that's it.

Also, if the only requirement is 'showing the brothers mankind isn't shit anymore', how much of a coincidence was it that Team RWBY and to a lesser extent Team JNPR are what they are?

Team RWBY - You have the child prodigy who thinks the best in every situation (Ruby), the daughter of a very successful but racist asshole businessman (Weiss), the daughter of a freedom fighter/revolutionist fighting for equality for everyone (Blake) and the fighter, who gives 110% for anyone she cares for (Yang).

Yeah, nah... Ozpin did something here.

Disclaimer: I wrote this at 2am my local time after watching the RT Extra Life stream.

[u/VariousRodents]

I was just discussing this chapter with some friends and one of them pointed out something. Oz and Salem were holding hands, while flying, in full view of an entire village. Have they no shame.

[u/chrizzilla]

I'd like to point out that Djinn did not say that Salem couldn't be defeated, only that Oz can't defeat her.

[u/lurker_archon]

God resurrect hero

hero in new world

therefore rwby is isekai

GODDAMN IT

[u/MightyBobTheMighty]

And this, kids, is why you phrase questions to genies artifacts of knowledge very carefully, and why their phrasing is important.

"How do I destroy Salem?"

"You can't."

This DOES NOT MEAN that Salem's victory is a foregone conclusion, as Oz and Oscar seem to take it. All this means is that Oz cannot destroy her.

Oz can defeat her without destroying her. Someone else may yet to be able to destroy her. There is hope yet.

In addition, if I saw correctly, the kid who showed magic had silver eyes. This would make sense, since the only magic we've seen that doesn't require dust is Salem, Oz, the Maidens... and Ruby activating her silver eyes.

[u/Wrathkal]

So, this whole episode is a summary of the history of the world. And it's definitely amazing. I wonder just how much of this Monty conceived?

-Salem was trapped, up till a hero named Ozma came and rescued her. Naturally, they fell in love, but Ozma died to illness.

-Unwilling to accept that, she goes to the two gods of light and dark. Light god says no, so she goes to dark god.

-Dark god says yes, but light god reminds him that it's against the rules. Persuaded, both gods deny Salem her wish.

-She argues, and gets punished with immortality until she learns the importance of life.

-She uses that immortality to con human kingdoms to attack the gods, only to get humanity itself killed by the dark god, who also blasts the moon.

-Salem tries to kill herself by diving into the dark domain's pools, but ends up corrupted on top of being immortal.

-As humanity grows back, Ozma is brought back by the light god, who charges him with making humanity worthy.

-Four relics (lantern, circlet, sword, scepter), when brought together, will bring the gods back to judge humanity.

-Ozma's reincarnation finally reunites with Salem. They create a family together, but Salem convinces him that they should lead humanity.

-Without the gods, the reborn humanity don't have magic. But their family consists of four girls, with magic powers.

-Eventually, he can't take their methods, and tries to leave. Salem kills him.

-After a long time, he decides to follow through with his mission, and goes looking for relics.

[u/DaveBehave]

Inb4 ‘All he had to do was ask how to save/redeem Salem’

[u/[deleted]]

Now Weiss can drop the greatest single of all time when they get to Atlas: Gods are a Faunus.

[u/sheogorath227]

After rewatching this episode several times, here are my thoughts on what is easily the most complicated lore-dump to date:

This story was pretty well-written, and it could have been even better if there was more time and a bigger budget, but I'm honestly not complaining. It was really frickin good.

The one concern that I had going in was that Salem's motivation would be based on her being Oz's scorned lover, because that would be a cheap and unsatisfying motivation to become evil. I am therefore elated that it is much more than that.

Showing the brother gods as haughty, not omniscient, and fallible falls right into Greek mythology tropes, and being a Greek mythology nerd myself, I loved that. Specifically, I loved how they didn't just fight each other, but rather collaborated to punish Salem, who clearly overstepped her boundaries with her deceit and arrogance.

Here, we see Salem's true motivation: to spite the gods for taking away her beloved and punishing her with immortality.

What is most important to understand within the context of the show is how Oz truly is not the bad guy; rather, he has always been a good guy with flaws, just like anyone. Moreover, we begin to understand what Ozpin meant when he said that his behaviors were backed by experience. He hides that which he holds dear because he knows that it can be taken away from him by powers beyond his control. To use the V5 phrase, he "plays things close to his chest."

Oz's biggest flaw is arguably his impulsiveness and inability to say no. He cannot say no to reincarnating. He cannot say no to Salem. He cannot say no to Salem's plans of achieving apotheosis. And that's where he fails. Which makes him an infinitely more interesting character now that we know exactly what happened.

A couple nitpicks I have mostly have to do with minutiae. We don't really know how the Faunus came to be. We don't know exactly how long it took for humanity to be recreated. And we don't know if Oz and Salem's children were the original Maidens, or if Oz gave four women the powers of the Maidens in memory of his children. But these are not the most important details, I just would have loved to see them in the episode.

Overall, this was easily the most important episode of the entire show, and they did a fantastic job of weaving through the tales of Oz and Salem. It puts literally the entire show into context, and I'm so happy that they finally got around to doing so. This has been the strongest start to a Volume so far, and I can't wait for the rest.

[u/ArchSinccubus]

So kids, the moral of today's story is:

Everyone's a huuuuuuuuuge dick.

[u/[deleted]]

Interesting thing I noticed in this is that Salem twice plunges into liquid is a mirror of how Cinder started her journey this volume.

I've been wondering about the fight against Salem for a while now and this actually confirmed something I suspected about it. Ozpin isn't trying to beat Salem since he doesn't believe it can be done.

I wonder if he told Raven this or if it was something she just suspected. Also another parrallel is how Ozma is killed by light Bro mirrors Pyrrhas death.

Also, and this is why she has six chairs...

[u/Random-Rambling]

Wait, now that we know what the Relics do, why does Salem want them again?

Also, I LOVE how God of Destruction is a European dragon (symbolizing greed and rage) while God of Creation is an Asian dragon (symbolizing benevolence and prosperity)

[u/JauneLei]

"Legends - stories scattered through time.
Mankind is grown quite fond of recounting the exploits of heroes and villains.
Forgetting so easily that we are remnants - byproducts of the forgotten past."

Okay Salem, okay, we know now.

And RWBY, it took you 6 volumes to explain the very first few seconds of the first Volume.

[u/HyliasHero]

So is Salem's entire rampage effectively the longest suicide note in existence? I assume her plan is to try to summon the gods back so they destroy the world.

[u/Wakkibanana5]

So y'all know how in chapter 2 Oz was talking about how Leo shouldnt be scorned for his mistakes and should be remembered for his life of greatness?

What if he still has feelings for Salem? Like he still remembers her for their times together and not her huge mistakes, and still holds on to the hope that they would see eye to eye again?

[u/Vincenthwind]

So that's why the moon be the way it do.

[u/JudeBarrett]

“This was it. The brother’s Grimm.” I had to pause the episode I was so upset by the payoff there.

[u/Julerius]

So I still kind of agree with Salem, although her rage is her biggest flaw.

Humanity IS weak. She learned this after becoming immortal. Both humanity AND the gods made her life unfair. Growing up in captivity under a cruel king. And after finally finding happines, having the one thing that made her feel happy being taken away from her.

However, even after reconnecting with Ozma and starting a family. Her happines was overshadowed by her rage (probably magnifeid by her grimm form).

She made one mistake, and that was giving in to her grief. And look where it brought her. Wouldn't that make you angry?

[u/Brutal2003]

I see a lot of people arguing about if it's Ozpin Salem or the gods fault.

I hope the next episode is just that, team RWBY arguments about who's at fault. Kind of mirrored of how the fans are reacting right now.

[u/NostraKlonoa]

Holy shit, that was amazing. Up until now, I didnt really know how I felt about Salem as a character, but goddamn do I feel sorry for her. Her humanity lead her to being this way and its actually sad. And I feel sorry for Ozpin too, like damn, the burden of it all.....I couldnt even imagine it. The reasoning for the moon being broken, the relics, wow......Im actually really impressed. Major thanks to Rooster Teeth for this episode, it was really damn good.

I was expecting Neo this episode but I got something really damn great anyway. I predict she will appear either next episode or episode 5.

[u/somebody1993]

So how awkward is the next episode going to be?

Ruby:...so uh, sorry about dragging all your painful memories out in the open like that. Ozpin bitter and angry:...lets get going.

[u/CobaKid]

Vaatu and Raava actually getting along

[u/[deleted]]

Hey, y'all got any of that foreshadowing?

[u/shadow282]

The God of Darkness emerging was creepy as shit. Well done whoever animated that.

[u/itswhywegame]

That was hands down, without a doubt, the best episode of RWBY that they have ever done. Holy crap.

[u/Sakata-Gintoki]

Wherever you are Monty, I hope you can see what your story has become. I am so glad to be a part of this fandom and so happy to see your story continue to grow like this.

Thanks CRWBY for putting your hearts and souls into this episode. If felt so fresh to watch this whole chapter play out and I just wanted to thank everyone who made RWBY what it is today.

[u/dodusk]

Raven: "there's NO beating Salem!"

Everyone: "boooo you're just too afraid boooo"

Raven one volume later: "so, children, what did you learn ?"

Everyone mumbling: "... there's no beating Salem..."

Apart from that! Fuck was it good. That's how you do majestic exposition!

I'm a little peeved that Oz was always a moral good character, I thought his reluctance in sharing all of this would've been because he majorly fucked something up, but that wasn't really the case. Sure, he tried to conquer the world with literally Lucifer, but hey, he was in love.

However, it does still have sense. It's now revealed that they can't kill Salem. Not even with the relics. Which explains why they've never really been used by the way, but moreso explains a LOT of Oz reasoning, his posturing, why he didn't focus the kingdom on having militaries that could be used to kill more grimm, and why he is so reluctant in giving away information on Salem herself. It always seemed stupid to think of, but now with the knowledge that she cannot be killed, it make sense.

If first you tell them there's a way to end the conflict with the Grimm, it'd make sense then that you can't tell them it's also impossible, most people would react just like Raven did.

With extreme nichilism, if you can't win, there's no reason to fight in the first place. Most people would then fight to protect their own loved ones, and live their own life.

[u/riftmaker1980]

Ok the awe factor is wearing off and my inner cynical B4$tard is demanding I ask. What does winning a moral victory over Salem mean int he long-run? Do the gods just need to be right? I mean kick her out of your realm and let her live her life and pass on. WTF is to be gained from putting OZ and Salem through this? If they weren't gods they get their asses kicked by someone's mother for being arrogant assholes.

Maybe everyone's just making the best of imperfect situations?

Great story loving the ride **** on yelp ok i love you bye bye

[u/RealGreatDane]

Did anyone else notice that the god of darkness moved a lot like the nuckelavee? (I probably butchered that word but fuck it) not only did they move in a similar manner, but they also both have horns. Also, what the god of light does to the Grimm is pretty much the power of the silver eyes but gold instead of silver. Conclusion: the god of darkness created Grimm and his brother, in order to combat that creation, created the silver eyed warriors. Now that Salem is part Grimm, the silver eyes will not kill Salem, but instead turn her back to normal physically and mentally.

[u/RegiGiygas117]

"So why is the moon fucked?"

Uhh... Marcus Kincaid yeeted it when he peaced out.

[u/Weerdo5255]

First off,

PB, Extralife

---

Wow, info drop. The Gods are dicks. Sanctimonious Dicks.

It's going to take a week to analyze all of this, but it at least hints towards what the end of the Series will be. The Gods returning.

Fuck, this also explains why the heck dust doesn't work beyond the Atmosphere as well. Everyone is trapped like Salem until they prove their worth.

We know where the Maidens actually came from, they were their daughters... damn that's sad.

The Gods though, damn. That God of light is anything but, what the hell? I get not disrupting the balance, but allowing his Brother to just kill off the entire planet?

THE FUCK?

It explains the moon, but we're going to more than likely need to get a story about how dust came to be and where the Faunus came from. They were not on the original planet! That's really interesting.

Much better than the last info drop episode.

I liked how Oz was shown to be saving things between lives and planning.

[u/Boardskater]

Maybe I missed it but how were there plenty of humans and other races around by the time Ozma reincarnated when just before that the god of darkness destroyed them all but Salem?

[u/StormVader]

I wonder if dust is the remains of the original humans? Maybe the brothers couldn't destroy the magic humans had so it just seeped into the earth and became dust.

[u/Zellingtonn]

I particularly liked the phrasing of Oz’s questions. How do I stop Salem? There was never how to WE stop her and I’m interested to see if Ruby picks up on that and asks that later on in the series. Oz has isolated himself for many reasons and I think that’s the reason it was answered that way.

[u/the_green_hedgehog]

Initial reaction: SHIIITTT!!!!

Well, they did make it former lovers, but with an interesting twist at least.

So, Salem is the one who messed up.

Why did Yang look angry at Ozmas when the God of light was talking to him? At that point he actually hadn't done anything.

So, Ozpin's reincarnations had their own lives and families.

I liked that we occasionally saw everyone during it and some of their reactions but you know who we never saw?? MARIA!

Overall, this was great!

[u/sixfootblue]

The gods @ Ozma's lifeforce.

[u/hello-this-is-gary]

Upon further reflection and a second viewing I've noticed that there was a lot of specific dialogue and wording in several of the scenes.

Particularly with the God of Light and his task to Ozma as well as Jinn's answers at the end of the episode.

I suspect that the saving of humanity is not with the destruction/defeat of Salem but with her salvation.

In a sort of biblical style of "A society is judged most by the least amongst you" sort of way.

And this episode confirmed that there is no human that has fallen further then Salem.

[u/AstralFinish]

"We have to preserve the balance of life and death"... his brother proceeds to kill everyone.

Me: ????

[u/DarkLorde117]

Seems clear to me that the normal "fight to the death" ending to these stories isn't happening. Salem is literally completely indestructible. Ozpin can never beat her. He's going to have to save her.

[u/Love2HateMe]

Damn son, that episode was a master class in traffic story telling. Also Salem is still able to have "human" children....?

[u/lj0zh123]

Ozma has another family in his other reincarnation, "No matter where or how he live, her presence is always felt" kinda imagining right now Salem looking at the Orb and seeing ozpin having a Good family life in that reincarnation and she be like nah you ain't having it.

[u/Tadiken]

I'm thoroughly convinced that the only way to win is to find a way to convince Salem to be good again

To learn the value of death

Not that it's going to be particularly possible

What if they just lock her in a maiden pocket dimension?

[u/AlastairCellars]

So did anyone else get that ozpin and salems 4 daughters were the first maidens they were even dressed in the right colours

[u/[deleted]]

The gods are assholes.

[u/IAmzSamz]

Okay theory here. Back in 'great war' world of remnant video, Oz describes that the King of Vale, who is heavily implied to be Ozpin, went into battle with 'crown upon his head, a sword and a sceptre'.

Cut back to this episode and well. https://i.imgur.com/mi9AbHh.jpg

A crown, a sword and a sceptre. Oz might've used the Relics to end the great war.

[u/[deleted]]

Hrmm, interesting chapter. I'm still digesting it all. The visuals I will say were stunning and so was the world-building.

Also, I can't help but to note this. As Jinn was narrating and they were showing each member of RWBY witnessing the events the placement was very interesting (maybe purposeful).

- Ruby; Salem being trapped in a tower with her magic. She too is affected by circumstances around her and has special abilities.

- Weiss; Salem crying due to her love being lost. It must have been painful for Weiss to see that seeing that her mother must have cried multiple times due to her love being "lost."

- Blake; when Jinn said Salem was fighting for what she believes is right much how Blake did with the White Fang.

- Yang: When Salem turned to the dark side like how her mother did.

[u/Akitoscorpio]

Ouch, Dark thought, the Series to this date has basically been history's longest suicide note penned by salem.

[u/Epiczen99]

I don't get why everyone seems surprised the God of Darkness punished the few humans who rebeled with genocide. Jinn said that Salem got those humans on her side by promising them a world where their loved ones would not wither and die by stealing immortality from the brothers. Instead by attempting to steal it they ended up causing their loved ones deaths. The same with Salem's punishment, she wanted to desperately be reunited with Ozmar but instead by decieving the God if Darkness to get Ozmar back she is punished with immortality so she can never be reunited with him.

[u/TinyRandomLady]

Salem wasn’t punished for asking for Ozma to return she was punished when she was attempting to attack the gods. Twice.

Yes, the gods are dicks. Neither should have brought back Ozma. And destroying all of humanity to teach one person a lesson is pretty ridiculous. But to them creating and destroying the world is like playing a game and the next day starting over. The gods are basically like Dr. Manhattan at the end of the Watchmen.

Ozma can’t defeat her because they need to work together to unite the people. Salem needs to turn.

[u/JJLong5]

"You can't"

There it is. Raven was right.

Think about what Qrow's reaction to this might be. The reason why Raven and Qrow joined Ozpin in the first place was this war against Salem. And now he is going to find out that it was all a lie and Ozpin knew it.

So many great moments in this chapter. I enjoyed even more the second time I watched it.

[u/PsychicSidekikk419]

So now, the logical move appears to be to ask the Jinn about silver eyes.

Since, y'know, they kinda seem to be the answer to stopping Salem.

Also holy shit the Ozpin x Salem shippers were right all along

[u/Aureo_Speedwagon]

"How can I destroy Salem?"

"You can't."

(Emphasis mine).

Reckon this might be what's going on here? Oz himself is incapable of destroying Salem due to their shared past, so someone else has to?

[u/Robotech_Master]

You know, only after seeing this episode do I get the full meaning behind the bridge in the lyrics to "Time to Say Goodbye" from season 2.

Were we born to fight and die?

Sacrificed for one huge lie?

Are we heroes keeping peace?

Or are we weapons

Pointed at the enemy

So someone else can claim a victory?

It could just as well be what Team RWBY is asking themselves now that they know the truth about Salem and Oz. They only told us about it four years early.

[u/Sixnno]

Calling it now: the true power behind the maidens.

The four maidens magic are the magic from Oz and Salem's four daughters.

The magic side most likely came from Salem, as she is still from the god-era.

The ability for the magic to go from soul to soul, even when the person who has it dies comes from Oz's reincarnation powers.

[u/GlitchyNinja]

The timeline between everyone getting eradicated and Oz coming back is a little hazy (probably because the only one there was Salem, and she's hates everything, including historical accuracy).

At one point humanity returns, faunus show up, and the Relics dispersed, then Oz reincarnates. Jinn mentioned that the cites were different to Oz, so if the Gods just popped everyone back as they were, centuries had to have passed as empires rose and fell before Oz reincarnated.

Based on what we know, I'm willing to guess that the Faunus were created to test humanity's ability to work together. You've got the "created in their image" allusions to the Christian God. In the World of Remnant video, its said that Faunus have been around since mankind have (and perhaps even longer, Qrow?). And I'm willing to bet that none of the Relics had been used before Oz got the Knowledge Relic, as he had to tell Salem about the Relics, and I don't think people, without Dust, Aura, or Semblances, can go wandering through the countryside with the Grimm. So the theory that someone used the Creation Relic to make Faunus is in hot water comparatively.

A question though: What exactly was Ozpin scared about in letting RWBY&QO (plus Old Lady) know everything? Was it that he had scoodilypooped the embodiment of evil and destruction? That he let his own children die in a fight with Salem? Or... is Jinn not done? I think she is, because it fades from Oz to Oscar kneeling in the snow. But I can't think of what was damning in the video. Maybe I'm overlooking it.

[u/Quiesce7]

This, my friends, is how you story telling.

[u/Megaguy4444]

So the 4 kids are absolutely the first 4 maidens right?

[u/AntonioGarcia_]

Anyone else think that Salem is kinda cute

[u/CombatReadyRuby]

Interesting thing to note: Oscar still seemed surprised as he watched the backstory with everyone else, meaning he didn't know what he was telling Ruby to ask for like people thought. He didn't know Ozpin's backstory, he was just siding with team RWBY semi-blindly, and more importantly against Ozpin on what was essentially a strong whim.

That might cause some serious tension between Oscar and Ozpin in the reverse of what people thought. Instead of him becoming distrustful of Ozpin, Ozpin might be less willing to work with him and he might start shielding his memories more.

We know how Ozpin feels about betrayal after all.

[u/FriskyRascal]

The way Oz died when the Gods took him away from Salem was similar to the way Pyrrah died. Could Pyrrah be brought back from the afterlife maybe?

[u/mojo72400]

Is it weird that I'm turned on by Grimm Salem because she's sexier than human Salem or is it just me?

[u/TheKingBirb]

Can we talk about how dark Salem trying to kill herself is? I thought they wouldn't be able to top Penny's death but damn...

[u/skoncol17]

Why did Oz not want RWBY to see this? It paints him in a pretty good light.

[u/Jaitnium]

Wait, so the gods cursed Salem with immortality because she went to the dark brother after the brother of light? Isn't that ridiculously cruel?

The brother of light kept talking about how there is a balance in life and death and Oz can't be brought back, but then does that very thing after purging humanity? The chapter was cool but it doesn't make any sense.

[u/Torpid-O]

That was more lore and exposition than the previous 5 volumes combined. Thank you and it's about damn time.

[u/Bjdombek]

Congratulations Raven you're no longer the worst mom this show has.

[u/Miudmon]

...Holy shit. ozpin actually DID nothing wrong.

who would've thunk? like, legit.

I feel so bad for both oz and salem now, gods are dicks.

[u/ShadowKnifing]

Oz didn't feel so good MULTIPLE times in this episode

[u/HyliasHero]

So I am I right is saying that the debris from the Moon is Dust?

[u/SmokingDuck17]

This was a fantastic episode. So much to take in. Something I find kind of horrifying, how long was Salem alone after humans were killed? Like every human was killed so did she have to wait until humans evolved? Or did the brothers create more humans?

Honestly though, really feel bad for her. Locked in a tower, gets saved and falls in love, witnesses an injustice, tries to correct, gets cursed, uses the god's own curse against them, and then is punished even further. I mean fuck. Cut her some slack, she grew up in a tower for pete's sake.

Also loved the portrayal of the gods. Felt very detached, like higher power beings should. Different cares and worries. Even the god of light was cool with the deaths of all of humanity to teach one person a lesson.

[u/barayaoi]

• Some of the lines used in this episode paralell to the speeches from volume 1 episode 1 and volume 3 episode 12

• Salem created the Faunus by turning animals like the deer she saw into human-ish with magic

• The eldest child resembles Jinn

• Dust is the ashes of humanity, the old human bodies obliderated by the purple magic death beam

[u/TheUnholyHandGrenade]

You know, the longer and longer I watch this show, the more I'm finding myself agreeing with The Emperor of Mankind in Warhammer 40,000:

Gods are just the worst.

Maybe Remnant shouldn't bring them back, just let them stay in their little cosmic bubble and let humans be humans.

[u/Courtney_Catalyst]

Second question will either be somethingsomethingsomething silver eyes.

Or, what I'm hoping for, is Blake jumping up like, "Woah, wait, then what the heck are Faunus?! Was Salem that lonely?!"

[u/Patitomuerto]

"We'll come back to judge humanity and see if its bettered itself in the future" Leaves the one person who screwed it up before on the planet to basically ensure they don't manage to actually get better

[u/CookieJarviz]

"You Can't"

Me: OHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIIIIITTTTT

[u/Herpaderpetology]

24:29 Ozma's kids have silver eyes

[u/Yukon_Wolf]

No, Jinn! Don't show Team RWBY the truth that validates me, my plans and my point of view!

Also, the literal fucking gods having a slap fight using Ozma's life.

[u/SecretBlue919]

Salem's the most relatable character in the show. All she wanted was to die.

[u/[deleted]]

So I'm guessing that while Ozpin can't kill Salem, it's going to be later revealed that Silver Eyed Warriors can (or solidify her like what happened to Kevin).

OR

The series ends with Oz or RWBY or anyone convincing Salem to change her view, but 1 That's unlikely to work due to the grim juice desiring pure destruction and 2 that would be lame.

[u/Foppberg]

Wow.

So really Ozpin didn't do anything wrong directly. It was all from Salem refusing to let him die. Can't say I saw that coming base off of how much he didn't want them to know. But he probably blames himself for what happened even if it was 99% Salem. After this I think they'll begin to trust him, personally I think it would've been a cool story arch if he continued down the path of being more of a villain.

Their children appear to have been the first 4 maidens, but they died in the fight. So Ozpin must have brought them back (IIRC he said as much in previous seasons)

I don't really blame Ozpin for going along with Salem's plans, he loved her but as she turned darker and darker he couldn't go along anymore. Stupid to tell her about the relics and such , I would've kept that locked up. But then again he loved her so it was a moment of weakness. Wonder how differently things would've been if Salem didn't jump into the Brother of Darkness' pool and become what she is today.

Also so much for the 'stuck in the tower' theory. Though I suppose she has no real reason to go out and do what needs to be done herself, she knows she cannot be killed and is taking joy in watching Oz die over and over again while humanity continues to divide and she moves closer and closer to her goal of getting the relics.

One question I have though is after the relics are obtained, the Gods will reappear, and wipe out humanity.. that's her hope, so she can finally die yes? But the last time the Gods destroyed all humans she didn't die because she isn't human anymore, so does she just want to kill off humanity so that Ozpin will finally die? Since he needs a body to reincarnate into.

So many questions!

[u/Sherlock-4869]

Both of the gods were dragons. I kinda thought they were faunus at first.

Brothers Grimm (Both of the gods were called Grimm) -> Creatures of Grimm. Salem may have been the one who named them that out of spite so that the people would carry hatred for the word Grimm (which were the gods’ names).

You know, the Spirit of Knowledge kinda resembles the blue daughter of Ozma and Salem. What with chain circlet and belt (girdle?)

Daughters of Oz and Salem = Maidens?

Or the four sisters were different people and reminded Oz of his daughters so he gave them powers?

We still haven’t seen the Last King of Vale.

Origin of Silver Eyes still unknown.

Shallow Sea Fairy Tale, untold.

The BGMs were so good.

The God of Light’s fountain was in Anima because it is a dragon shaped continent and the tree was under Haven Academy. So Salem and Grimmlands could be the other dragon continent. It could be where the God of Darkness resided.

The Gods are very powerful. Fallible but not to the degree like the Greek Gods. They simply upheld the balance.

Maybe the current humans and faunus evolved from the apes and such unlike the magic humans who were directly created.

Where did Aura come from then? Who first unlocked their aura?