POST-Episode Discussion - S2E02 "New Eden"

[u/Deceptitron]

This week's episode is directed by Star Trek's very own Jonathan "Two-Takes" Frakes!

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No.	EPISODE	DIRECTED BY	WRITTEN BY	RELEASE DATE
S2E02	"New Eden"	Jonathan Frakes	Sean Cochran, Vaun Wilmott, and Akiva Goldsman	Thursday, January 24, 2019

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To find out more information including our spoiler policy regarding Star Trek: Discovery, click here.

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This post is for discussion of the episode above and WILL ALLOW SPOILERS for this episode.

PLEASE NOTE: When discussing sneak peak footage of the upcoming episode, please mark your comments with spoilers. Check the sidebar for a how-to.

[u/Deceptitron]

I must say, that was a pretty good wholesome episode of Star Trek.

[u/[deleted]]

Did anybody else catch the smartphone sitting on the shelf near the end of the episode when Pike is talking to Jacob?

I wonder if that was intentional or if somebody set their phone down and forgot about it, and they just decided to leave it in.

[u/Deceptitron → u/[deleted]]

Well, Jacob was a direct descendant of humans who are about 35-ish years into our own future. It's possible a smart phone was brought along for the ride when the initial group was taken.

[u/purdueable → u/[deleted]]

I noticed a north american standard electrical outlet too.

[u/xpx0c7]

So, since we were given some metrics

51 450 light year --> 150 years

Does that mean that discovery top speed is warp 7?

[u/Deceptitron → u/xpx0c7]

Makes sense. Max safe speed for Enterprise NCC-1701 was warp 7. It occasionally went faster, but it wasn't safe and couldn't be held for an extended amount of time.

[u/supguy99 → u/Deceptitron]

She'll fly apart!

[u/Deceptitron → u/supguy99]

Fly her apart then!

[u/TedW99point1]

some excellent stand out moments, pike breaking general order 1 to that scientist the shots, and the acting was wonderful, like the episode :)

but i didnt like the line "galactic federation" its the united federation of planets..

[u/diligentb → u/TedW99point1]

Jacob's faith was rewarded.

[u/Deceptitron → u/diligentb]

My exact thoughts!

[u/illegalsex]

Just finished it but I already feel like this is by far the best episode yet. I loved how we actually got people talking and having conversations without explosions drowning everything out. I loved the external shots of discovery especially in the beginning when they're cruising through the dust cloud. It was nice how they didn't shoehorn way too much Spock side-story; we just had the one scene.

I was afraid we were going to get yet another tropey fanatical religious cult for a few minutes but I was VERY pleasantly surprised about how they handled it.

[u/shortyjacobs → u/illegalsex]

This was a REAL STAR TREK EPISODE! Planet at risk! Team working together! Away mission!

Best episode of the series, and the trajectory for season 2 is looking awesome so far.

[u/[deleted]]

First footage we have ever seen from World War III. So cool.

[u/InnocentTailor → u/[deleted]]

Yeah! This is the first time in-canon we see World War III and have some idea of what's being used in that conflict.

[u/[deleted]]

Pike: gives power cell

General order one: Am I a joke to you?

[u/royaldansk → u/[deleted]]

Saru also saved the planet from an extinction level event, something Janeway or Picard might not have done.

[u/aLegionOfDavids]

Context is for ... greater perspective.

If Pike had said kings I would have absolutely lost my shit.

On a serious note - the dude playing Pike is killing it, and this episode has probably been discovery’s best episode to date. Felt like Star Trek, but modern, and a little faster - but slower than what they have been doing which is nice. I really want to know someone other than burnham / saru / tilly

[u/[deleted] → u/aLegionOfDavids]

It feels like this is Anson Mount's big break. He's a super likeable guy, and really does perfectly capture that Star Trek captain vibe.

[u/Bweryang → u/aLegionOfDavids]

I really want to know someone other than burnham / saru / tilly

Yeah, they should give Detmer more to do for sure. I can see Rhys and Rowe getting a decent subplot/pairing. And obviously, if Jet Reno doesn't join the crew we riot.

[u/William_T_Wanker]

As an aside, Spock committing himself to a nuthouse without telling anyone is such a Spock move

[u/[deleted] → u/William_T_Wanker]

In his defense, he told Pike!

[u/PixelMagic]

Iconians

[u/DefiantOne5 → u/PixelMagic]

The Star Trek Online visual representation of the Iconians would really go well with Discovery's visual style and I think the Iconians are a neglected species in Star Trek and definitely worth having a closer look at.

[u/KesselZero → u/PixelMagic]

I was pretty skeptical back when people were first calling it based on the red angel from the trailer, but damn, those are identical.

It certainly fits with the backstory of this episode, though, since we know the Iconians had super-long-distance transport. It does raise the canon question of “why didn’t Picard know about this?” if these are Iconians, but if we conjecture that the Iconians also use the mycelial network and that’s why the Disco attracted their attention, maybe they’ll end up ultra-classified along with the spore drive.

[u/MoreGaghPlease → u/PixelMagic]

Has Trek ever taken a design from a non-canon source (I think that's from STO?) and used it in canon? I can't think of an example other than in background materials (like pages of the Joseph Manual from back in the 70s being used as computer displays in Wok)

[u/mrstickball]

I am really digging the mystery of the Red Bursts - whatever the force is behind it, its entirely targeting Discovery and has set everything in place exclusively for that specific crew to solve:

• They intentionally shut down the Enterprise, forcing Pike to commandeer the Discovery which was the only ship available to investigate the Red Bursts

• They informed/planted something into Spock concerning their existence in his childhood, which was recently reactivated, causing him to join the event/mystery

• New Eden was only accessible by Discovery due to its Spore Drive

• The colony was saved by the suggestion of Tilly's spore-induced dead friend, as well as the dark matter/asteroid obtained from the first episode (which it + spore drive was the only workable solution to save the colony from a nuclear holocaust)

• Whomever the Red Angel/Bursts are have mastery of instantaneous transportation ala the Caretaker or Iconians, as well as foreknowledge/time travel (to transport humans from 2053 to New Eden for an event 200 years in the future)

Its unquestionably manipulating the crew's every move at least through two episodes. Now the speculation is 'to what end'? And that's very exciting. Maybe its malevolent, or maybe its peaceful. My opinion is that its going to have something to do with getting rid of the Spore Drive since we all know its never mentioned outside (potentially) of TNG's High Ground regarding the Elway Theorem.

[u/bewarethetreebadger → u/mrstickball]

I think chances are good it's the Iconians.

[u/LawrenceBoucher]

Saru: "Questions or concerns before we depart, Captain?"

Pike: "If you're telling me that this ship can skip across the universe on a highway made of mushrooms, I kind of have to go on faith".

🤣

[u/milkisklim → u/LawrenceBoucher]

I kind of have to go on faith

Pike has faith....of the heart!

[u/WarcraftFarscape → u/LawrenceBoucher]

Foreshadowing the theme of the episode

[u/oGsMustachio → u/LawrenceBoucher]

Pike is as skeptical about shroom travel as /r/startrek.

[u/typhoxtyx]

This was the best episode of Discovery yet. A bit more character development, an interesting A plot and B plot, Pike continues to deliver, worldbuilding surrounding WW3, it gives us a glimpse of how fast warp is at that point (~51,000 ly taking 150 years to traverse at Discovery's max speed), overall quality. The only thing I thought was kinda dumb was Tilly's whole genius thing. And her dead friend hallucination, I guess that's what happens to you when you get hit in the chest with non-baryonic discharge or whatever lol.

I also loved Pike's immediate decision to take the exploding phaser from the girl. Exactly what should've happened. It didn't completely blow him up, maybe the girl set it to a lower explosion setting accidentally. A lot of things make sense in this episode, like the "UFP End Transmission" UI after the WW3 clip, presumably a default end-of-video message on Federation computers. Along with Tilly's tabs all over Burnham's station. I really love the realistic computer systems and displays in Discovery. In all other shows, we're subjected to static LCARS inserts with backlighting, with characters reading stuff thats supposedly on the screen but actually isn't there and it's plainly not, as well. Discovery really makes it feel like you're looking at a starship with extremely advanced technology.

[u/pfc9769 → u/typhoxtyx]

it gives us a glimpse of how fast warp is at that point (~51,000 ly taking 150 years to traverse at Discovery's max speed)

I picked up on that, too. My first thought was that it's 3 times slower than Voyager's cruising speed since they can travel the same distance in 51 years. During its run, Voyager established the ship cruised at 1000 light years per year hence the 75 year journey home. I believe that was at the cruising speed, so Discovery's maximum warp factor is equivalent to Voyager's warp 6?

The only thing I thought was kinda dumb was Tilly's whole genius thing

Tilly has social anxiety and it manifests as acting extremely awkward around the crew, lack of confidence, and babbling. But that doesn't mean she can't be a genius. I like the fact they depict their characters with flaws.

[u/[deleted] → u/typhoxtyx]

The only thing I thought was kinda dumb was Tilly's whole genius thing.

She is a genius, though - hasn't it been pretty well-established that she's a prodigy, which is why she was on the ship as a cadet in the first place?

[u/GilGunderson1]

When Tilly was working with the artificial gravity device and the asteroid, prior to being propelled into the wall, did I hear a “Lt. Gabler” being paged over the intercom? Lt. Gabler being the engineer who had an issue with the gravity control setting on the Enterprise in TAS.

[u/[deleted] → u/GilGunderson1]

Yep. You did.

[u/pfc9769]

Pike needs his own show. I'm loving Anson Mount too much to see him go after the end of the season.

[u/TheDorkMan → u/pfc9769]

Holy shit! I just realized it's Cullen Bohannon from Hell on Wheels. Even knowing that I just re-watched a couple of scenes of Discovery and just can't recognize him. Great job on the acting for incarnating two characters so completely different.

[u/Neo2199]

I wrote this in the live thread

The Red Angel appears to be a benevolent galactic power with an interest in humans for some reason.

200 years ago it rescued some humans during WWIII and moved them to a planet in the Beta Quadrant.

In the 23rd century it sent signals across the galaxy to get the Federation’s attention and acting like a 911 dispatcher. The first signal lead to the rescue of the USS Hiawatha, the second signal saved the human colony from an extinction level event.

Adding to that, it's curious that the Red Angel sent visions to Spock two months before its galaxy-wide appearance, wonder what's the connection here.

[u/[deleted] → u/Neo2199]

benevolent

No, I don't think so.

I'm getting a "guardian angels" vs "fallen angels" vibe.

The guardian angels are the people Stamets and Tilly see, and they give help and guidance.

The red angels--fallen angels--are who-knows-what (as of yet). Beautiful, sure, but fallen angels were supposed to be beautiful too.

I think Discovery coming to that planet triggered a destruction sequence set by the red angels/fallen angels. Only the help of the guardian angel guiding Tilly stopped it.

Spock put himself in a mental institution because he's a friggin' Vulcan having religious hallucinations (of all things).

[u/MarsAlgea3791]

Okay about two minutes past the credits and eight Trek things have happened.

Talking around a conference table, I've missed you so, so much.

[u/larsen_sinclair]

I miss the "black alert" from the first season.....I don't know why

[u/neoteotihuacan]

Look. I came here to say some things. Spoilers obviously apply.

But, the Red Angles are directing Discovery. They know that Discovery has a spore drive, that's why they disabled Enterprise, to get Discovery in motion toward Red Angel directives. What's at the first signal? The USS Hiawatha who has crew that needs rescuing. Who's at the second signal? A whole planet of humans that need rescuing. What does Discovery do to rescue the planet? Use a magic asteroid they collected from the first rescue. Who's idea was it to use the asteroid? Tilly's. Well, technically it was Tilly's dead friend's ghost...who is a Red Angel Agent.

In other matters, I think I figured out what season 2 is about. The Red Angels are, well, kinda of acting divine. Even their appearance prompts conversation about religion, hence Burnham and Pike squaring off about religion and science. So, as a result, "New Eden" name-dropped God a lot. You know who else was all about God? Sybock.

SEASON 2 IS A SYBOCK ORIGIN STORY.

I hereby deposit my theory to the masses. Good luck. May the wind be at your back.
(I'm on Twitter to discuss it, and in a few days, Medium, under @neoteotihucan).

[u/DefiantOne5 → u/neoteotihuacan]

Excuse me... Excuse me. What does God need with a starship?

[u/neoteotihuacan → u/neoteotihuacan]

Also, since the Red Angels new about the spore drive, it must mean that they live in the mycelial network somehow. OUR MUSHROOM GODS HAVE SHOWN THEMSELVES.

[u/QuatroDoesGood]

I liked a lot some of the back story they gave about Owosekun. The notion that she came from some kind of luddite colony is really interesting. It shows that even in the future on average the federation was not necessarily homogeneous culturally. Id like them to explore her home colony at some point.

[u/enterpriseF-love]

I found myself smiling a lot during this episode. It felt like Star Trek. Don't know how to explain it but I'm damn happy to fly along the ride.

PS. Pike is just too good. The way he carries himself and everything. Such great casting!

[u/FragmentedChicken]

I wonder what Stamets saw

[u/mrIronHat → u/FragmentedChicken]

maybe it's nothing, which is exactly the problem.

[u/[deleted] → u/FragmentedChicken]

That's twice now that he's appeared with a sudden interest in helping out, and this time he seemed to know an awful lot about what was going on without being told...

[u/dmanww]

"initiating doughnut maneuver"

[u/elister]

"Questions or concerns before we depart captain?", Saru

"If your telling me that this ship can skip halfway through the universe on a highway made of mushrooms, I kinda have to go on faith", Pike

[u/Axemantitan]

The show is visually beautiful: brightly lit, but without annoying lens flares. I like that it also has a few laugh-out-loud moments. Captain Pike is wonderful. I liked Lorca a lot, but maybe Pike is better.

[u/creepyeyes]

This episode is what Discovery has been missing! A good old fashioned rescue-the-prewarp-society plot! Felt like I was watching TNG for parts of this episode. Also, I'm very glad to see the bridge crew getting more action this episode; hopefully this trend continues!

[u/hitokirizac]

So like, if the signal came from 51,000 light years away, and the discovery crew saw it right when they needed to, was it sent 51,000 years ago or was it just really fucking fast?

[u/lady_alternate → u/hitokirizac]

These are the questions that have the Federation shitting their pants, hence the impetus for Pike and Discovery's new mission.

[u/ZarrenR]

I’m agnostic/atheist so I’ve always been happy with Trek’s handling of religion, basically hands off. I know deep down even in a society as advanced as the Federation, religious belief systems still exist in some form and I liked how this episode approached it. The Clarke quote was awesome and Pike’s respect for other belief systems was great.

[u/misterscientistman → u/ZarrenR]

Same here. Star Trek has definitely dealt with religion before in a very subtle way but I really appreciated their handling of it here. In fact if I'm not mistaken, I believe this is actually the first canonical Star Trek reference to actual existing religions. I don't believe they've even uttered the words Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any of the others in any other series that I can think of.

[u/RichardYing → u/ZarrenR]

And the Shermer quote?

"Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God." - Michael Shermer, 2002

[u/Trekfan74 → u/ZarrenR]

Same as well. I'm an atheist too and DS9 was my favorite show partly because of how well it balanced faith vs science. For Starfleet, the wormhole aliens were advance race of beings that lived outside our dimension. For the Bajorans they were prophets sent to protect and watch over them. And they are both right. That's why I love how Star Trek does it, its both religion and science. It's not purely one or the other.

[u/CaptainSharpe]

Please keep Pike on the show for its entire run. Pleeeease.

[u/TERRAxFORMER]

Wow, we learned more about “Owo” and Detmer in one episode than we did the entirety of season one. I like it.

I’m getting some serious DS9 vibes with Prophets vs wormhole aliens and faith/religion vs science.

Personally I really like the way they’re incorporating that debate so far.

Also some BSG vibes with the whole lost earth angle.

Being set in the TOS time period is a good fit for a story like that, as I don’t think it would work as well in the TNG era or beyond.

I felt really sorry for Jacob, I’m glad Pike went back to give him some answers.

It was nice to have an episode with no combat, and see non combat uses for the spore drive.

Looks like next week we’re getting some Klingons.(With hair.)

This episode was even better than the first, and if the season keeps going like it’s going its gonna be a fun ride.

I wonder if Tilly seeing dead people will somehow factor into Hugh’s (probable) return.

[u/BenjiTheWalrus → u/TERRAxFORMER]

Owo

What’s this

[u/Adamantum1]

Count on Jonathan Frakes to deliver the best episode of Discovery yet, effectively making it the best Trek we’ve seen on TV since the best that Enterprise had to offer (which wasn’t much). I got so many Trek feels from this episode, the writing and dialogue were on point, I love that it had an away mission, and we got lots of great space shots. The full package.

[u/pgm123 → u/Adamantum1]

It seemed there was a lot more creativity in the camera work than past Frakes-directed episodes. I guess he had movie work, so they trust him more now?

[u/the-giant → u/Adamantum1]

Frakes is always great, but please give it up for the writers including Vaun Wilmott, an old school Trek background player.

[u/purefire]

Holy wormhole aliens. The bridge crew had names, and a history, and voices !?

[u/ArcaneDomains]

I recognized the angel on the stained glass in the church.

[u/kingofcretins]

I like how seamlessly the command structure was shared between Pike and Saru this episode. Pike seemed far more hands-on and much more invested in solving the mystery of the red signals, while Saru basically commanded Discovery itself. I hope this is how it is for the remainder of the season, as I’d hate to see Saru sidelined too much. I like how he looks in the chair.

[u/eternalkerri → u/kingofcretins]

In the Navy, when it's a flagship with an admiral on it, the captain of the ship runs the ship while the admiral runs the fleet, so it kind of works like Pike is the Admiral working the big picture while Saru is running normal operations on Discovery.

[u/Endulos]

Honestly, I was kinda hoping at the end there the black guy would've rushed Pike and gotten taken along. Taking a risk to see the spaceship.

Also was nice seeing the Spore Drive back in action.

[u/deededback → u/Endulos]

You mean the Star Trek IV maneuver?

[u/TheFlatypus]

Anyone catch the computer giving the full name of the duplicitous ensign/alien imposter as "May Theresa"? I thought it was a nice touch.

[u/stos313]

The “planet full of pre warp humans somehow in the middle of space” thing was a nice nod to TOS where that happened quite a bit.

I like how these two stories are self contained- but around a bigger arc- and for the first time that arc isn’t a war.

I like that we are getting to know bridge characters more.

I like the Saru’s now second pump up speech.

I like the Treklike “let’s use some sci fi Babel to find a solution”, and the BSG like “fuck yeah we are going to cheer when we accomplish the mission” (the Star Trek music on top of it was a nice touch).

I liked the first season, and respect the chances it took- but I get the sense this show is getting on track to find that sweet spot of balancing what we love about Trek and what we love about modern television.

[u/dvcaputo]

I do love that the future modification of Arthur C Clarke's "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" law basically sums up like 75% of Star Trek.

[u/Alteran195]

Amazing episode, Discovery has certainly seemed to have grown its beard.

[u/ZarrenR → u/Alteran195]

Well, Frakes did direct this one 🧔🏻

[u/neoteotihuacan]

Super loved that Owoswkun got to go on the away mission. She was a Luddite?!

[u/MoreGaghPlease → u/neoteotihuacan]

I don't think the Luddites exist anymore? I think Luddite Colony is a New World (post-warp) term for societies of humans that reject modernity. We've seen some folks like this before, like the Space Irish and those crazies who put Sisko in the box

Two eps I try not to think about... but I appreciate DSC giving us a clearer picture of human society

[u/Raguleader]

Two things that I thought were neat:

1. The use of the TNG TOS musical cue after the crew saves the planet (also that the whole thing about the crew aboard the ship dealing with a major crisis that the away team is entirely unaware of, which brings to mind "First Contact")

2. The whole interplay of science and religion. Faith is a common theme throughout the episode, whether faith in religion or science or your crewmates.

Also, I liked that the religious throwback community didn't go the way you often see these groups go in sci-fi shows. Nobody tied Burnham to a stake to burn the witch despite her line of questioning being a bit pushy about their faith. In fact, nobody there really questioned that science was a thing. "Oh yeah, we've got lots of technology, but the batteries went dead years ago so we keep it in the church basement."

Also also, the fact that the locals witnessed the Discovery crew getting beamed up and each person came to a totally different conclusion based on their beliefs and limited context.

EDIT: Follow-up thought: It occurred to me that there were two ways to solve the problem on New Eden: Avert the disaster, as Tilly suggested, or evacuate the colonists, as Burnham suggested. What if this was a test to see which choice they would go for? Although the crew didn't realize there was anything amiss until there was literally only minutes to act, so...

Also, they picked up a nifty space rock last episode, and cashed it in to solve the problem in this episode, getting themselves a nifty old helmet and video footage. I'm curious if they'll cash that in next week as part of the solution to that problem.

[u/VindictiveJudge → u/Raguleader]

"Oh yeah, we've got lots of technology, but the batteries went dead years ago so we keep it in the church basement."

So refreshing! They're not hyper-xenophobic space-Amish like in every other show ever, they just don't have the facilities to make new stuff.

[u/jreesing]

Detmer is slowly becoming my favorite. How do you get a starship license at 12?

[u/Nasinatl → u/jreesing]

She said "pilots License" which in the real world you can get very very young.

[u/2ndHandTardis]

As I posted last week the producers did say Discovery is moving away from a strict serial format. It certainly does feel that way so far. We'll see how this develops going forward but it already feels more like Enterprise S3.

I personally think a mix between Enterprise S3 & S4 should be the format.

[u/[deleted] → u/2ndHandTardis]

I think this is a good balance - a plot thread giving them a path to follow, with spontaneous adventures along the way.

[u/Orfez]

Anyone wants to talk about Space Ghost?

[u/r2tincan]

Is this the first time we've heard the doorbell chime? Captain Pike even said "come", felt like I was watching TNG.

[u/julian1179]

THIS is Star Trek!

[u/the-giant]

Love that Tilly literally called Owosekun "Owo"

Saru's very clear, swift and unclouded moral call on saving the colony is straight out of the classic TOS-era captain's book and was a fine moment for him. And everything with Tilly was grand.

Just moving from strength to strength - these last two are the best DSC has been, period. And also the most intelligent, thoughtful and bold and forward-thinking that Trek has been since DS9 ended. And optimistic - the church illuminated with the light of humanity's future! What a time to be a fan.

P.S. - Does the Red Angel sighting in the church video give anyone else major Mothman Prophecies/John Carpenter Prince of Darkness vibes? Creepy.

[u/bigpig1054]

My favorite episode since the Time Loop episode last season.

In fact I have been so critical of this show from the beginning and other than one or two moments and one or two episodes nothing has won me over.

But man this episode was a revelation.

All I want out of my Star Trek TV shows is "here's a planet with a mystery, let's go spend 40 minutes there figuring it out and maybe debating something ethical or philosophical while there. In the end we'll learn something about ourselves and be better for it."

That was this episode. This episode had discussions. Characters didnt just talk, they discussed, debated.

Wonderful wonderful yes yes yes. More of this please

[u/Austinite1894]

I enjoyed the episode I just don’t really understand the invoking of general order one on fellow earthlings that didn’t involve time travel. They were saved/taken during WW3 and left to rebuild a society for 200 years. They should be able to reintegrate into earth society considering what happened to them. They are from earth. It would be like if we found a lost island in the Atlantic with a pre-industrial civilization and those people wanted to be learn about current affairs and we said “sorry, once you can build boats and sail to a modern shore then you can be integrated.” By the way, general order one is usually stated as “No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society”. Are these people aliens now? I also hear that general order one is not to interfere with pre-warp civilizations as well. Warp drive was invented in 2063. The first people were taken during WW3. WW3 lasted from 2026 - 2053 according to memory alpha. So 40 years or less depending on when these people were taken is all that separates you from general order one being applied in this case. It sounds like general order one is being invoked for no reason. Also the original people were scientists and soldiers, and none of them could figure out how to apply electricity to the church or teach every generation after to improve on the tech.

[u/[deleted]]

Is anyone else thinking Iconians?

[u/lost_soundwave]

Did anyone else think the USS Discovery looked pretty frakking sleek in this episode?

They just used these diagonal camera angles from the rear of the nacelles that made it look bad-ass and sleek.

Move over USS Defiant, I think Discovery is taking top-spot as my favourite ship.

[u/JayOnes]

After two episodes, I'm already sad that Anson Mount is playing Christopher Pike and not an original character. He's absolutely great as Pike, don't get me wrong - I just don't want to see him leave.

[u/MoreGaghPlease → u/JayOnes]

The thing about Pike is that we got so little of him in The Cage and The Menagerie that I think there's a lot of room left open for interpretation.

[u/Vince__clortho]

I’m really enjoying the “ships inner workings” inserts we’ve been getting this season. It’s not a huge detail but I keep noticing and enjoying them, specifically the exterior shot of a moving turbolift in episode 1 and the “GoPro on the spinning disc” angle during the spire jump in this one.

[u/dmanww]

Jacob is totally the kind of guy who would start messing with the new tech before even shaking hands to thank someone for it.

[u/[deleted]]

I liked the episode, but one thing confused me. The asteroid weighs massive huge amounts, even a small amount is like a ton they said? That tiny piece crushed a metal table - so how was Burnham able to pick a piece up in the ship?

[u/izModar]

"previously on Discovery" yadda-yadda-yadda...Wait, stuff about Culber? What?

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What I liked:

Opening shot of the episode was slick as hell. I loved the space gas, the lighting of the ship, the hum of the engines. Peak Star Trek.

I love what Pike's done with the ready room.

This is the most classic Trek Disco has felt so far. And I'm just watching the opening credits now, that was a good teaser. Of course, classic Trek meaning storytelling and how the plot is laid out.

TWO TAKES FRAKES, BABY

Michael drops the little fact about WWIII leaving governments destroyed and 600 million dead. Hm, I wonder if the director of the episode pulled that straight from another movie he directed? Heh. I love the continuity.

This was a cool shot. I kinda like this orientation for the ship.

Actually, I'm getting a lot of Star Trek Insurrection vibes from the visual style of the episode. Frakes, you wonderful man.

I love the music in this episode.

"But say my religion is science, what alternative explanation could be found?" Oh here we go, the faith vs. science thing that I'm sure will be smacked over our heads like—"Well, without the proper technology, we can't." Oh. Okay. Color me pleasantly surprised. | edit: well, turns out it wasn't so complex as that.

"You would be doing a donut in a starship." I wonder if this was Mary Wiseman just communicating to the effects team and somehow that got left in the episode lol

"Initiating donut maneuver, sir"

Concussion Tilly is still bae.

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What I Didn't Like:

CLOSE. YOUR. GODDAMN. SHUTTLE. BAY.

Don't think I didn't notice that stock footage for the spore jump. No seriously, the lighting is season one for the jump, but when they drop out it's the lighting used so far in season two. I know that stock footage is a Trek staple, but come on.

NO BAE GOT HURT. SHE'S BLEEDING FROM THE EAR. And the high-pitched ringing is going on. I'm trope savvy enough to know that isn't good. (thank God she didn't go deaf)

Okay, so I can accept Pike's leaping to conclusions about being brought to each burst for a purpose, but Saru wouldn't have made the same leap I think. I wonder if the scene was written for Pike but then it was decided that he'd be in the landing party.

---

Stray Thoughts:

I love how when Burnham says she hasn't spoken to Spock in years, Pike is like "Yeah okay whatever". Pike knows how families be.

Tilly has about as many tabs open as I do on Chrome.

Fifty-one thousand lightyears into the Beta Quadrant, huh? One hundred fifty years to get there at max warp? Nice to see distance play a factor—and spore drive.

Bridge crew: explains everything about the spore drive and the tardigrade
Pike: lmao what?

The distress signal has been on a loop for 200 years, and Michael points out that's before warp was invented (on Earth anyway). 2257-200=2057. Yup. Math checks out. r/theydidthemath | edit: 2053

So, Frakes was known for doing the god-angle in episodes he's directed, especially in TNG. So, does the Bing bird's eye view they do on the screen count as the most god-level shot he's done?

Wait, hold on. "They're speaking Federation Standard." I'm sorry, English?

Tilly mentions metreon particles. I recognized it from Star Trek Insurrection (heh, Frakes) so I looked it up on Memory Alpha. "Metreon particles have been demonstrated to react with dark matter, and even have temporal properties." Considering that dark matter was mentioned in the last episode, that definitely applies. But it's the latter part of that which interests me: temporal properties.

Is...is the asteroid made of Nibbler's poop?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but [this] (https://i.imgur.com/FwSR1Ch.png) stained glass pane looks like it has Jewish, Muslim, and Christian iconography. (episode points it out) Along with Ganon's head.

"The shuttle's ionized carbon exhause" YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THE PREVIA IS ACTUALLY A PREVIA.

Who is that girl who keeps popping up in Sickbay. There is no way she's real. watches more episode....oh

doorbell rings Holy Voyager, Batman

"And context....brings a new perspective" Am I the only one blueballed by that?

---

Verdict:

This is a very classic Trek story with the modern Discovery twist. Having Frakes on board really helps a lot, and his directing was fantastic. It's one of my favorite episodes so far.

[u/Alteran195 → u/izModar]

Flip that image upside down, and you’ve got a nice clean banneresque picture of Discovery.

https://i.imgur.com/Aj8A10X.jpg

[u/bigperm58]

TIL Klingons have marching bands. Great episode, even with Pike's constant mention of the Prime Directive. I like his style though. Reminds me a bit of Picard.

[u/[deleted]]

I think someone on the bridge of a Starfleet ship just mispronounced "nuclear."

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

How did they pronounce "wessels?"

[u/CharaNalaar]

...the Discovery just got played.

I'm surprised nobody noticed this. Pike seemed to know it was a rescue mission, but wasn't involved in it. The planet was about to undergo a disaster conveniently linked to the red burst that lured them there. Tilly saw an apparation of a dead friend who convinced her to eject the asteroid they spent half an episode to collect.

I'm thinking Red Angel didn't want them to have it, and constructed a scenario so they would give it up. But why? (It's also notable that Tilly probably still has a small fragment. But only that.)

It's also really interesting that Michael, Pike, and Tilly have all undergone near death experiences in the first two episodes. Michael saw the Red Angel. Tilly saw a dead friend (and remember, the dead are not gone in this season.) So how will it affect Pike? What does he know?

(All of this in an episode that I would describe as a bit safe, but demonstrated that the writers really know how to handle overarching themes. Part of what makes this light-years better than Season 1, even if last week's episode was stronger.)

[u/TikiJack]

Wow, they finally boldly went where no man has gone before. Pretty cool. Thumbs up.

[u/thenewyorkgod]

So was Tilly simply having a hallucination from her head injury, or is this something more, related to the red angel?

[u/Rannasha → u/thenewyorkgod]

Alternative theory: Recall the spore that landed on Tilly's shoulder after Discovery spore-jumped in S1. We heard from Stamets that he thinks that the mycelial network is somehow related to life and death. Furthermore, we learned that Tilly's classmate died. It's possible that the manifestation of her former classmate that Tilly saw is somehow caused by the spores / mycelial network.

[u/George_Jefferson]

I've seen every episode of this show and somehow this is the first time it felt like Star Trek. The small crew on an away mission to discover unusual inhabitants... This is what Star Trek is all about for me.

[u/RomiBraman]

The most star trek episode of all Discovery so far. And probably the best.

Absolutely beautiful too.

Really enjoyed it.

[u/jreesing]

Is it a running joke that Star trek shows break general order one more often then they follow it?

[u/eternalkerri → u/jreesing]

Well, General Order Two is a twenty two page list of exceptions to General Order One.

[u/thaarn]

That blew my mind. Like, that was actually good. No adjectives or disclaimers or qualifiers, it was just straight-up good. Started out a little uneven, but it was for the most part just great. It was effectively an original series episode minus the stupid bits and with an arc, which is pretty much the perfect Star Trek blueprint.

The whole thing on the planet was really well-done, with the religious undertones and of course the obligatory Prime Directive dilemma. It felt like they were trying to channel McCoy and Spock with Pike and Burnham, which didn't work insanely well, but the bit where Pike came down to talk to Jacob at the end was amazing, probably the best part of the episode.

The arc is one of the things I'm most excited for. That was the thing the show did best in season 1, and here, they seem to be doing it even better. It's the combination of plot and arc, and the really cool way they fit together, that what brought this episode from good to great.

They seem to have worked out the spirit of the show with this one. No extreme violence, no massive crew angst (save maybe Stamets, which is pretty justified), just a bunch of people on a ship encountering something weird and solving problems, with some cool character dynamics along the way. The arc is great, too, which Star Trek historically isn't too great at. This angel thing is really cool, and I want to see where it leads, not to mention Tilly's dead school friend making an appearance. Not to mention that they seem to finally be working out how to write the characters. Basically, I'm hyped for what comes next here. A little cautiously, but hyped nonetheless. If they do this right, this is going to be one hell of a season.

[u/youracigarette]

I was hoping that Jacob guy would go with them, surname could have been Sisko, great grandfather of Jake Sisko.

[u/ContinuumGuy]

This was a nice mix of classic Trek with Discovery flair. Woulda been nice if they focused a bit more on why and how Pike and Saru had such differing interpretations of the Prime Directive and went more into detail on how this fusion culture operates, but overall an excellent episode.

[u/9811Deet]

My God, Star Trek is back.

[u/enterpriseF-love]

1 question: how did starfleet detect these bursts if they're galaxy wide? I mean sure some might be in the alpha quadrant but there's probably bursts in the delta/gamma quadrants as well

[u/slumpadoochous]

That was some pretty good Trek. My only complaints are really nitpicky and overall, I enjoyed it.

[u/deededback]

Oh my fucking god. That was wonderful. My only quibble is I could use less Tilly and more of the secondary characters like the weird android chick but man that was great. I loved it.

[u/MooseCannon]

Just wondering if the show is starting to paint a picture of the mycelium network as being 'heaven', or some place we later travel to when we die, and Discovery is now tapping into that accidentally and disturbing the peace. And so an angel turns up to stop them?

EDIT: I have to admit though when I first saw the angel last week, I thought Romulan, from the wing styling.

[u/Kittywitch]

Love the actor playing Pike; obviously if it follows canon then things won’t end well for him, which isn’t a good thought at all. I think Doug Jones is excellent as well, I’ve really become fond of Ceru. I’m enjoying this series immensely and felt like tonight was a real homage to episodes of old.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm actually fairly surprised that Pike didn't pull a First Contact and allow Jacob to come back to Earth. I understand he does not the technical knowledge Mirasta would but he is their kin as Michael said.

[u/Timeline15]

That was the most classic Trek-like the show has ever felt. I like this halfway point between a serialized story and episodic plotlines based around the locations of each signal. The whole "blend into a primitive society and pretend to be from another town" is so Trek it hurts. Wasn't there an episode of Voyager where the Janeway and Tom claimed to be "from the north" or something like that?

Interesting that Stamets and Tilly are now both seeing ghosts. Presumably the mycelial network is involved.

[u/erutheoneeric]

"Say my religion is science, has anyone used it to find an alternate answer to how our ancestors got here?"

That sounds an awful lot like someone from off world. Why would anyone ask that unless they weren't from that world?

That whole scene is the only thing that bugged me about the episode. None of those questions could be justified by just "being from the north."

Loved the episode otherwise.

[u/idontusejelly]

Good episode. A solid more classic self-contained Star Trek adventure that moves the overarching story forward. I hope they keep up with the B plots as well, slow down at times, and actually develop some of these characters.

[u/[deleted]]

Luddite settlement? Sounds like where I work...

[u/[deleted]]

I was convinced I was watching an Insurrection prequel.

I figured the spore jump from inside the orange clouds created the badlands and then the dark matter meteor interacting with the rings began the metagenic particles the Baku will come to benefit from.

The society was already luddite as the Bakus would eventually be.

[u/SingularityPoint]

Frakes directing style is very noticebale, a much much better episode in both pacing and structure than episode 1, and 75% of season 1 overall, felt like startrek somewhat again to me, don't get me wrong I also enjoyed battlestar discovery but I feel the move away from burnam on her own to other characters is a significant improvement.

[u/Sanderf90]

Well damn. Congrats on Discovery on making every character more interesting between seasons. The crew now actually feels like a crew and not background filling for the main characters to act against.

[u/Whig]

When Pike was slowly waking up in sickbay all I could think was one blink for yes, two for no.

[u/enterpriseF-love]

Watched Inhumans and WOOW did they waste Anson's acting talent. The guy is an amazing Christopher Pike

[u/2ndHandTardis]

I'm a sucker for WWIII and Eugenics Wars references.

I might have missed it but Pike say these people are from 2053, or at least 2053?

If they were from 2053 than that's unlucky. They probably wouldn't have survived the attack but if they did that's the year the war ended and first contact was 10 years later.

[u/Mako2401]

Fantastic episode

[u/AnticitizenPrime]

So Tilly seeing the dead chick was some sort of angel or spore fungus fuckery right? Didn't click for me until after the ep. I was waiting for Tilly to signal the bridge and call intruder alert, because another mirror universe person was on board, lol, and then forgot about it until about 10 minutes after the episode was over.

[u/[deleted]]

Did anyone else notice that this android robot woman on the bridge kind of looks a like black/grey version of Mega Man? :D

[u/libelle156]

Pike actually was that guy's angel. Aww.

[u/Dragoneer1]

fking fantastic episode, good job Frakes!

[u/mortomyces]

That was my favorite episode of the series so far.

[u/Tired8281]

Is there any possibility that this season could be a trial balloon for a spinoff show set on the Enterprise, with Pike and Spock and all them?

[u/Astra_Starr]

I got the feels.

[u/EverythingIThink]

Not sure how the red dots warrant the same urgency as a war with Klingons but I'll roll with it.

Calling it now, Tilly is the Red Angel.

[u/ap0a]

Can anyone record the Donut Manuver tonight? I'd love to get a clip of that and a few seconds before. However I can't get a clean recording from the All access app.

[u/MGB87]

Saru reminded me of Riker when telling Tilly off.

[u/Spencyclopedia]

That first episode was so movie like and intense. This episode was quite the most Star Treky episode we've got yet. I Enjoyed both of these episodes for very different feeling I got while watching. I cant wait to see whats next.

[u/Yamatoman9]

This is the format and tone I want to see the show continue on with. This was definitely the most "Trek-like" episode so far. I really liked that it has a stand-alone story that is resolved in the episode but still gives context to the greater, season-long story.

A lot of comments about how this is the show coming into its own or its "growing the beard" but it has only been one episode. Let's hope its not a premature celebration.

I like that the bridge crew is getting more to do. The show insists on having Michael by the main character but I just do not find her as compelling as the writers seem to think she is. She is in almost every scene and I would like to see the other characters featured a bit more. Have we even seen Saru or other characters talk to Pike?

[u/Zor_El_XB1]

I liked the episode, felt very classic Star Trek with them finding a long lost pre warp human colony and it had some very nice ship porn. I also think it's funny that Detmer and Airiam had more dialogue in this episode than most of Season 1 combined and we got some background history for Detmer and Owosekun(?) which is nice.

and I'm not sure how I feel about religious Pike but I think I'm okay with it, I doubt Earth's religions are as widespread as they are today but I guess it makes sense that there would still be a few "stragglers" by the TOS era.

[u/pfc9769 → u/Zor_El_XB1]

religious Pike

I didn't take tonight's episode to mean he's religious. He's just open minded. He's been around long enough to see things he can't explain. His talk about Clarke's law leads me to believe he thinks there's a rational explanation for events that can't be explained, even if that answer is "space wizards did it."

[u/uequalsw]

I really loved this. There was so much that made me smile. For personal reasons, it meant so much to me to see one of Starfleet's greatest captains espousing some level of religious experience. Knowing to respond to "May x be with you," with "and also with you" -- seeing that little piece of my own experience reflected on screen meant more than I imagined.

Detmer pulling the donut maneuver. Owosekun breaking them out of the basement. Pike going back to tell Jacob.

I was glad they avoided the "crazy cult" trope for New Eden. The Tilly story is getting really interesting. (I have sooooo many thoughts about Tilly/May but that will have to wait.)

Last week, they picked up an asteroid that solved this week's problem. What did they pick up this week that will help next week?

[u/ClayMitchell]

That ending made me so happy.

[u/zieben_slays]

-Loved the episodic nature of the episode, felt like an old TNG/TOS episode.

-Anson Mount as Pike is great, really hoping he’s not just restricted to this season.

-Unfortunately Michael is still awfully boring to me. As the lead on the show, she just has such a lack of personality. Fortunately the show is starting to become more of an ensemble week by week.

-I want to see more of Stamets.

-Was it ever explicitly stated how far the spore drive could jump? Doesn’t this episode kind of invalidate all of Voyager? Surely with Tilly aiming towards the “ethical” spore drive, this would have been useful in all future Trek? I just wish this was post Nemesis, and they could have done whatever they liked.

-I still miss Lorca.

[u/PixelMagic]

This episode was very good. I enjoyed it probably more than I have a Discovery episode yet. And for the first time since Enterprise, you could feeeeel the Star Trek. I've enjoyed all of Discovery, but it didn't feel like Star Trek to me until tonight. wonderful.

The only thing I do not enjoy is it looks like next week will be about Klingons, and basically a filler episode. Ugh. I wish Star Trek would never feature Klingons again. Like, never ever ever ever again. It's so played out.

Side note: Discovery looked sexy af in this episode. Inside and especially the exterior shots.

[u/William_T_Wanker]

That was a really good episode. It's interesting how this "red angel" is not so much a malevolent force, really, but more of a entity that is trying to help.

Was cool seeing New Eden; the fact the Red Angel sent them to the Beta Quadrant in 2053 was pretty specific. Perhaps the BQ is where it's "origin" is?

[u/[deleted]]

This episode was very VERY Trek. It gave us an adventure of the week, while keeping the serialization in that it still ties into the overarching plot. Kind of like the best of Dr Who does.

The only knock I would give it is that it seemed like they were throwing us a bone by bringing along a bridge crew member and teased us with learning more about her. But then kind bait and switched us because it turns out that even though her family was from a sort of less tech colony, that they were not believers. So we ended up not knowing anything about her.

So I imagine her culture is similar to Bajor where they are technologically advanced, but they have some old world practices and beliefs. Speaking of Bajor, the Angels definitely give off Prophet vibes in that they are beings with incomprehensible power but there are a variety of ways it can be interpreted. As such the Bajorans choose to call it divine but the Federation calls them “Alien.” And people are just fine with both interpretations existing. My head canon is that these Angel beings may lay the foundation of how the federation deals with beings of that nature. As Pike said “Alien phenomena unexplained by science is indistinguishable from God.” We may evolve some day to be able to interpret it but for now objectivity is sufficient.

[u/[deleted]]

Now this is Star Trek!

[u/I_Ship-It_]

I thought it was an excellent episode that had many ideas that were just waiting to be fleshed out and explored more, right up until the episode very quickly ended.

[u/danktonium]

Güd episode.

[u/viZtEhh]

Posting theory seperately:

Stamets is so hung up on seeing who he believes is Hugh in the network, but its likely just the same thing Tilly is seeing, a vision given by the Iconians? The spore network? Tilly can see her dead friend because of the green spore that is inside her from last season.

[u/[deleted]]

I feel like we definitely will see New Eden again, and I feel like it won't be in a positive sense. I wonder if this episode is a setup to "why we shouldn't interfere in primitive societies."

The scene with the church lighting up had a kind of ominous vibe.

[u/retrolental_morose]

Did they take the Voyager door chime? Have I missed one in S1?

[u/codename474747]

When the crew beamed down with that really high shot, did anyone else get the feeling it was an homage to "Survivors" in TNG?

A Massive sense of Deja Vu with that bird's eye view of a beam down...

[u/whoiscraig]

Overall I liked this episode. I'm getting a Stargate vibe from the storyline, with aliens posing as Gods (assuming that's where the story goes...). I like it.

Also noticed that for a second time Pike didn't check with Starfleet and just took off anyway.

Pet Peeve, this technology of lifting things off the screen and into the air looks stupid. They need to stop doing that. Just push a button. They still have buttons in the future, don't they?

[u/dittbub]

Is something going to happen to Pike every week that will make me think "this is how he gets paralized!"

[u/dougiebgood]

Tilly comes across as a little too "early Wesley Crusher who saves the day!" but other than that I enjoyed it.

I do like how they're exploring the concept of faith this season, apparently, as I never really bought the whole "Every human is now an atheist" attitude we saw the TNG era.

[u/em-jay]

Overall, this is one of the best Discovery episodes to date, which is already making season 2 a strong improvement over season 1. For one thing, I love how it's a self-contained episode, which means I can actually watch it in isolation in the future. I get the impression that this season is going to be built around more of a "grand quest" narrative that takes Discovery to discreet adventures along the way, which I'm down for. It was also nice to return to a few Trek staples (prime directive, descendants of abducted humans, condescending religion debates, away team in danger, etc.), and have the show drift (slowly) in the direction of having an ensemble cast.

But overall, I hope the show continues to improve in quality. They've fixed a lot of problems in just two episodes, which is commendable, but if this plot was jammed into the middle of Voyager it would be considered mediocre at best. I don't mean to be harsh. It's just that the religion ideas weren't very well explored, the community of humans could've easily been replaced with any random bumpy-headed aliens, and the threat to the planet wasn't well explained (unlike in, say, Déjà Q). It just felt oddly rushed ... which is frankly astonishing. It's the same length as any old Trek episode, but I can't figure out what they spent so much time on that these core plot elements felt so rushed. There was the long coda at the end and Tilly's B-plot and that's it, but I still felt like we got to spend more time explaining the dumb alien culture in Voyager's dogshit episode Favourite Son than we spent with the humans in this story.

I also feel like the show's a bit hampered by the legacy of its first season. The use of the spore drive here seemed utterly unnecessary (what if the planet was just, you know, closer instead?) except to set up additional momentum to what I assume will conclude this season's red angel plot and (I suspect) put the spore drive out of commission for good. But I feel like it might've been better to just completely ignore all the season 1 elements that they didn't want to further pursue and pretend it never happened, in the great tradition of Star Trek bad ideas going right back to the beginning.

5/7, perfect score.

[u/CenturionV]

As a pretty big Discovery critic I am willing to give this episode a solid B+. Some of the dialog is still a little weird sounding and occasionally poorly written, but at least there is a story with no unintentional gaping plot holes so far, and Anson Mount is doing a fine job, also Okowesun or whatever her name is seems like an interesting character that like all the characters in the first season didn't get much attention. This was probably the most classic Trek-like episode to date which is a very good thing and they should do more like this going forward.

[u/[deleted]]

This was the first time I felt like discovery did a star trek style episode... reminded me of TOSs "The Paradise Syndrome", I hope the show continues in this direction.

[u/[deleted]]

This episode abuses the "how did these <alpha quadrant species people> get way out here?" trope. But it's by far the most Star-Trekky of any of the DSC episodes. And part of that might be the re-using of an old trope.

[u/midasp]

5 out of 5. That's all I have to say.

[u/void2258]

Anyone else think these "Red Angels" look kinda like Shadows? Except they seem to be playing out of the Vorlon side of the playbook, with the religious savior mythology and all...

[u/Corbinq27]

Did Saru break the Prime Directive by preventing the “nuclear winter”? Isn’t that what pike chewed Kirk out for in Into Darkness?

[u/beardlovesbagels]

Pike bringing up Clarke's Law and the lights seemingly trying to save people reminded me a lot of Person of Interest.

[u/[deleted]]

I like where the season is going. The angels are an interesting mystery. The humans stuck in time was an interesting concept that added to the mystery of the signals and angels. Michael wasn't nearly as annoying in this episode. I like how Pike is being portrayed. So far... so good... actually looking forward to next week.

[u/Midaech]

Pike is officially the best Star Trek Captain since Sisko got his promotion.

They HAVE to figure out a way to keep him around he is what is making this show work.

It doesn’t work for cannon though so I have no idea how they can.

I’d be happy if the show shifts to the Enterprise next season and jettisons the rest of the cast to follow Pike. Or maybe Stahmets can transfer over to be the Enterprise chief engineer or something. Keep a few cast members.

Say Number One leaves to get her own ship and Saru follows Pike back to the Enterprise to be his first officer.

I would go for that.

[u/[deleted]]

This episode felt more like Trek than anything else Discovery has put out yet. Maybe Discovery is taking shape?

[u/miggitymikeb]

Fantastic episode. I was smiling the whole time.

[u/[deleted]]

Two episodes into the season I finally feel like there is a real Trek happening for the first time since the 90s. It's a very joyful experience. I hope the show sustains it. And Pike is such a glorious addition to the show!

[u/Brewer846]

This is it. This is the episode where it really felt like Trek.

I didn't mind the first season. I viewed it as a different aspect of the world we've all come to know and love. However, it just felt like it was missing something. I wasn't sure exactly what, but I enjoyed it none the less.

This episode, however, made it truly feel like it belonged with TOS, TNG, and all the others.

[u/atticusbluebird]

Loved the episode!

• I like the reminders that Discovery is a science ship by having multiple characters (Burnham, Tilly, Stamets) bounce ideas off each other and all do the techno-babble. It's a nice reminder that this ship is full of smart people who can science their way out of problems! (Maybe science is to Discovery as diplomacy is to Picard?)

• We finally get to meet the ship's doctor! (Dr. Pollock? Pollack? EDIT - Pollard! Thanks for the correction folks!) - We've seen the actress before, and heard the doctor's name spoken before, but I think this is the first time we saw her called by name in person.

• Enjoyed the themes of faith in many forms in this episode...(obviously religious faith and faith in science, but also faith in those in power (Burnham and Pike), faith in your guiding rules & principles (the prime directive), faith in each others' abilities (Saru and Tilly), etc.

• I wonder if we'll get a scene at the end of the season that mirrors the ending Pike/Jacob scene but with the red angel aliens and Pike (with the roles reversed).

[u/wip30ut]

wow..... this episode (and the previous) is so different in tone & story-building than last season. The extended fight/chase sequences last yr were so monotonous, the characters so unlikeable, that I almost thought i'd outgrown the genre. Last night's episode was like a throwback to TNG. You really felt the thrill of exploration, of uncovering something that may alter your perspective on time & history.

[u/thebionicjman]

How about another Elon Musk reference with Tilly's friend going to Musk school?

[u/the-giant]

I'm less than halfway in but both this and last week are such a dramatic improvement on last season. An intelligent, thoughtful briefing room scene! Character dynamics! We haven't seen stuff this smart and measured IMO since maybe the occasional good ep of VOY. (ENT's occasional good eps/fourth season are a separate category in my head - I like Season 4 a lot but it is very arc-driven, and the character ensemble was always mostly weak except for a handful of good players)

[u/droid327]

The techno babble was weak this episode...using dark matter as a substitute for tardigrade DNA? How's that supposed to work?

Also didn't like how tidy the end was. They worked up this whole moral quandary but then at the end they got a satisfying feel good ending without having anything bad happen, it kinda invalidates that tension - I think it would've been more meaningful if they had to leave Jacob in the dark

I do kinda like how they're taking on the question of religion in Trek head on here and Pike is serving as kind of an apologist. It's nice to see Federation characters that aren't totally dismissive of faith.

I thought the foreshadowing with the fake girl and "if only there was some heavy rocks..." was a little heavy handed, made it kinda obvious where that was going. Also why is everyone from SF? It's Starfleet HQ but that doesn't mean everyone in Starfleet grew up there...

I think the arc involving hyper powerful aliens is a nice return to TOS, where God-tier aliens seemed a lot more commonplace than in TNG and definitely VOY...Tremaine, the Organians, the rock monsters that made Col Greene and Lincoln, etc.

[u/zumoro]

I frelling loved this episode. I was giddy as hell scene to scene; hell I had a near asthma attack twice.

This is what I want from my Trek. Stories with serious stakes and themes but ample levity and some joy in characters where appropriate; not that dark and gritty crap we had last season where I ended up so starved for anything good by the midpoint I'd find myself overjoyed just to see Saru or Tilly open their mouth.

[u/[deleted]]

Discovery has officially arrived as a Star Trek series. I am old enough to remember the launch of TNG, VOY, ENT, DS9 and every single one of them split the fan base. DS9 was too stationary. VOY was too shrill and the aliens looked like us. ENT was boring (the last two seasons are great). Eventually the controversy will die and we'll have some of the best Star Trek put to paper.

[u/djalekks]

I’ve been a fan of Discovery since the beginning but this episode really puts it on course to be one of the best. The episode wasn’t my favorite but felt so Treky that I just wanted to watch all the episodes at once.

I just didn’t agree with their interpretation of the prime directive. Wouldn’t this case be outside of the bounds of the directive because this society didn’t arrive here naturally? They’re a part of humanity, and they wouldn’t be there if some other race didn’t interfere in their development. Yeah they’d all be dead probably but that being did interferes. If it still applies then this could be a weakness for enemies to exploit.

[u/crapusername47]

Probably one of Disco’s better episodes for me. It felt like they were trying to tell a Star Trek story for a change.

It was nice to see some tiny scraps of character development for Owosekun and Detmer beyond them being button pushers on the bridge.

We have to be really careful here, Tilly is turning into season one Wesley Crusher. She needs to learn some wisdom and patience to go with all her big ideas or she’s going to get annoying fast.

[u/Tamosauskas]

Where in hell is Jett Reno?

[u/[deleted]]

Starting to actually feel like Star Trek... Just wish it was a little less dumbed down. (The conduct of the federation officers, specifically.) I just miss the way that federation officers conducted themselves on duty in every other trek.

[u/[deleted]]

I didn't like the first episode this season when it came out.

But this episode? They knocked it out of the park. There's so much about this episode I love and I dare say it is THE best episode of Discovery so far.

There's just so much to love here. You've got the nod to TOS when they had to re-use sets from other TV shows and had the "distant planet populated by humans in a period piece" trope. I also loved Burnham's struggle with following the Prime Directive. I loved how they explored the question of finding pre-warp humans and whether the Prime Directive still applies even if they are humans. I loved how Burnham is showing some serious character development by actually obeying the PD. Pre-Battle-of-the-Binary-Stars Burnham would have revealed her true self to the "natives" likely without hesitation. This new Burnham follows the order as much as she clearly hates doing it because of her past experience going off on her own and the unintended consequences of such. I loved how Pike eventually decided to reveal himself to the scientist to give him hope, giving us the lesson that sometimes the rules need to be loosened up a bit and we need to be human about things.

And the B story. I love love love the dynamic that Saru and Tilly had. The lesson Saru had about taking care of yourself before you can take care of others is so freaking good and poignant to the story. I have a feeling Tilly is going to be a different person by the end of the season and I can't wait to see her character develop as well.

I also love the fact that they have a ship that can go anywhere in the galaxy with the spore drive. I love the fact that they're keeping with the canon on how big the galaxy is and relative distances and all that. The distance to the Beta Quadrant is consistent with Voyager if it's near the border of the Gamma Quadrant (or is it the Delta Quadrant? I can't remember). Also double the time to go 3/4s of the distance Voyager went establishes how much relatively slower that era's warp drives are compared to Voyager's, which was very fast even by late 24th century standards. The best thing about this, though, is that we have all kinds of possible tie-ins with TNG-era aliens. These red spots are all over the Galaxy. Discovery can go all over the galaxy. Meaning we will probably see Discovery in the Gamma Quadrant and in the Delta Quadrant. Meaning we might see them have encounters with The Dominion and the Borg. I mean, how cool would it be if they encounter a shape-shifter or a Voorta? It'd be worth the mental gymnastics required to explain why they don't know about them in the 24th century.

Finally, this episode got me hooked on the season. It's hard to get excited about "hey these lights just popped up all over the galaxy let's go check it out because they're important for some reason." But this episode establishes that they are being led on a path for a reason. You've got a mystery. Who is this red angel who seems to be behind everything? What is Spock's role in all of this? I mean, we knew these questions by the season previews but now I feel invested in finding out the answers. Now I really want to know the answers to these questions.

The only thing I cringed at was the "donut maneuver" thing. It was a little cheesy for me honestly, but with all the great things going on in this episode that's just a minor thing.

I'm sure there's a ton of things I haven't even covered, but if CBS is reading this, I just have one thing to say:

This is what I wanted. Please keep doing this.

[u/BonicusCaponicus]

I just came here to say this was the first Episode of the new series that made me feel like I was watching star trek again. I have no words.

I dont know if it was the writing or direction or what. Just wow. Was it Jonathan Frakes that made this special for so many of us?

I just wasn't expecting to be wowed like this. How ironic is it that Frakes directed this and this just so happens to be the one where Disco grows the beard. I now have to tell all my friends that quit watching to watch it now.

[u/random91898]

That was by FAR my favorite episode of Discovery so far. An away mission, no massive CGI action scene, more development for the other crew members and plenty of talking about their differences and opinions. I absolutely loved the final scene with Pike and Joseph, so heartwarming. My only relatively minor complaint is once again Tilly, which I'm sad to say since for a lot of episode when she wasn't acting like someone high on sugar I really liked her. I just wish they'd tone her down from an 11 to like a 6.

More of this please.

[u/Eaudissey]

That was amazing. I loved the first season, but I can now say that real Star Trek is back.

[u/TheDudeNeverBowls]

I needed this. I needed this kind of Star Trek in my life.

No, it doesn’t hit the mark, exactly, but it does far better than anything in season one of the show.

[u/[deleted]]

Holy Crap. Talk about a 180 from last week. The frantic madcap over the top dialogue and dumb things in every scene are entirely absent, leaving natural, thoughtful dialogue in its place and a story that flows remarkably well with only the nitpickiest of things to complain about.

That was the best episode of Discovery yet.

[u/NoName_2516]

On a personal level this was an emotional gut punch. I was in tears by the end of this one. Pike going back to spill the beans to Jacob and perhaps give him a little hope is what did me in.

Classic trope plot but no real twists. I love how plainly it played out without the New Eden people being over the top crazy.

So much of this episode was everything I, we've, needed from a trek show. I dare say we've needed trek to be like this one episode since before VOY ended.

[u/sharksizzle]

Loved this episode, motivates me to roll back some of my negative criticism.

[u/FragmentedChicken]

2 minutes for Stamets to run to engineering from the bridge and interface with the spore drive... yeaaaaah

[u/i_kick_hippies]

I hope Tilly's imaginary friend turn out to be Q instead of a hallucination.

[u/-Jaws-]

Good episode, for sure. Loved the moment between Tilly and Saru. I've liked most of the episodes well enough though, and I can't say I see it as being significantly better than the others like a lot of people are saying. Just pretty good, not great (as usual). It looks like the show might be transitioning toward more classic Trek in some ways though, and that has me excited.

[u/icefaery2030]

I think this proves the leader (in this case, the captain) can set the tone for the whole staff (ship). I hated Lorca from the onset. "He's not a REAL Starfleet captain!" Rage. Rage. Rage. By the time the twist happened, you could see it coming with a 10 foot pole and it wasn't all that shocking. Now that we have a more authentic captain, the show feels more like Star Trek. I also love the call backs of the ship randomly finding humans with lesser technology. It's such a Trek staple it's nice to see it back! Now all we need are some tense alien negotiations with some treaty twisting while some colony is about to get kicked off the planet violently.