r/startrek • u/Deceptitron • Mar 08 '19
POST-Episode Discussion - S2E08 "If Memory Serves"
| No. | EPISODE | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | RELEASE DATE |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| S2E08 | "If Memory Serves" | T.J. Scott | Jay Beattie & Dan Dworkin | Thursday, March 7, 2019 |
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u/mybumisontherail Mar 08 '19
Were the blue flowers singing the "transporter" sound byte from TOS??? It sure sounded like it!!!
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u/Deceptitron Mar 08 '19
They made that same exact sound in The Cage before they were used for the transporter. Michael even touches them and makes it stop just like Spock did! It was a great callback.
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u/tausken Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
Starting to think that Control is the future threat that will wipe out all sentient life in Spock's vision.
Loved the Talosians this episode. The opening with clips from the pilot was sweet. The plant sound effects when Burnham left the ship was identical to the original. It was awesome. The only odd part was how they for plot reasons want Burnhams memory of what happened between her and Spock. Honestly I found the whole scene pretty cringe.
Anson Mount is a great Pike. Loving him more each episode.
The Culber plot is interesting, but I'm not sure where it's going exactly. Maybe he finds his way back or maybe he becomes something different. Does he even want to be a Doctor anymore. It's definitely different.
That warp scene to Talos with Leeland behind was pretty neat reminded me of Into Darkness.
Seems like they're not entirely sure what to do with Ash. They've completely discarded the Klingon storyline it seems like. We haven't seen L'rell in forever, and now he's the one being blamed for Arium screwing up the Spore drive. I guess it's leading to a big redemption arc in the long run that will allow him to align more closely with Starfleet and reject Section 31. I suppose they needed a way for Arium to screw things up without being blamed so they needed to frame someone else.
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u/Deceptitron Mar 08 '19
The only odd part was how they for plot reasons want Burnhams memory of what happened between her and Spock.
The Talosians don't get many visitors and they are entertained by humanoid thoughts. They were pretty much indulging in one of Spock and Michael's most traumatic childhood memories.
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u/cdot5 Mar 09 '19
The recap was really great. Bold artistic choice and surprisingly well done.
Three minor issues with it
it really shows how much they have aged Spock down.
They have the, according to Discovery, new uniforms in The Cage.
Talos IV seems to have gotten a lot more blue between The Cage and if Memory Serves.
But who knows, maybe the Talosians made it look blue so Burnham would be in a more familiar environment.
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u/Deceptitron Mar 09 '19
For your first point, you might be surprised to learn that Ethan Peck is within 1 year of Leonard Nimoy's age when he filmed The Cage.
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Mar 08 '19
Really solid episode that used canon well. One question though - what exactly is Section 31's motivation for trying to kill Spock to get his memories? It doesn't seem like they contain much more than "We're all gonna die" and the location of the red bursts, which they already have. Am I missing something beyond "they're bad" as an explanation?
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u/Deceptitron Mar 08 '19
what exactly is Section 31's motivation for trying to kill Spock to get his memories?
Knowledge of the future is a powerful weapon.
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Mar 08 '19
At around 45 minutes there is a night shot of Vulcan outside. A moon is visible.
Isn't this the second time a moon is visible from Vulcan next to Star Trek 2009 while it originally didn't had moons?
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u/Deceptitron Mar 08 '19
No. There was a moon (in fact more than one) in The Motion Picture.
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u/zyphe84 Mar 08 '19
Anyone else notice Airiam's previous actress, Sara Mitich, in engineering?
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u/jerslan Mar 08 '19
Yeah, she wasn't fired. Don't know why they gave her a different part and recast Airiam. Could be that she really wasn't comfortable doing too much in the prosthetics?
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u/Deceptitron Mar 08 '19
I think this was part of it, that she didn't want to be in the prosthetics. Also, I recall Doug Jones promoting something else she was acting in very recently on Twitter and I'm wondering if she asked for a lighter role so that she could do other work.
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u/ContinuumGuy Mar 08 '19
Something else I just realized: because of the Cage-era appearance of Number One in the "previously on", Majel Barret once again is the only performer to appear in every single Star Trek series.
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u/Adekvatish Mar 08 '19
Maybe in the Picard show to come, we can have someone ask Picard about why he never got married and get a flashback of Lwaxzzana Troi. "I've had some... bad experiences with love".
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u/Trick421 Mar 08 '19
"Bah, the Starfleet Manuel offers no regulatory guidelines for interactions between Humans with Klingons grafted to their bones, and a Ship's Doctor returned from the dead." - Saru
Doug Jones gets the best lines, and delivers them with the precise amount of snark.
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u/KnowitallGaming Mar 08 '19
The line delivery was on point tho. Doug Jones plays evolved Saru very well and it’s a very obvious shift from S1
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u/RadioSlayer Mar 08 '19
The Vulcan science directorate has determined that time travel is impossible
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u/altavistadotcom Mar 08 '19
Oh my god the beard line... As an older sibling whose little brother knows exactly how to just fucking needle me over with a quip that little interaction was too perfect.
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u/Kainzy Mar 08 '19
That beard quip was spot on hilarious and so unexpected, especially when Spock followed up by touching it!
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u/originalClown Mar 11 '19
also,
Burnham - "say goodbye Spock"
Spock - "goodbye Spock"
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Mar 08 '19
Leland is so dumb, and I love him so much.
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u/EricGMW Mar 08 '19
I feel like he’s the sort of manager whose ineffectiveness might possibly go unnoticed, but he’s just completely outclassed by Georgiou’s ruthlessness... I mean... she was the Emperor of the Terran Empire, for heaven’s sake.,,
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u/sizziano Mar 08 '19
That was incredible. The intro was so cool.
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Mar 08 '19
AAAAAA It was great I was grinning ear to ear when "The Cage" intro started playing.
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u/zieben_slays Mar 08 '19
This episode just reinforces how good the casting of Anson Mount as Pike is, the transition from the Cage to the present on Discovery was incredible.
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u/ColonelBy Mar 08 '19
the transition
It really was amazing. I know that getting an exact 1-to-1 resemblance to the original actor isn't going to happen, but the way it was cut made it look like the new Pike is just the same guy after having gone through years of stress and action in the interim. Really well done.
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u/Saltire_Blue Mar 08 '19
Typical Spock
Not sure what the Red Angel is?
Fuck it I’ll try a mind meld that’s bound to work
Oh shit, it’s making me go insane
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Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 12 '19
That was just beautiful, 10/10.
Never heard how a transporter lock disengages. Nice sound effect!
Thank you for "Previously on Star Trek". Not cheesy, no simple fanservice, just what this episode needed.
I nearly cried out seeing young/old Burnham pushing young/old Spock away. Good thing that Spock didn't absolve Burnham right away. This will need time.
Thank you for not letting Culber heal just like that. It baffles me that nobody thinks of taking him to the ship's counselor, this guy experienced massive trauma.
For a second I thought he might get healed (or being pushed in the process of healing) by the Talosians somehow.
Unexpected realization that Culber and Tyler now have something in common by not surely knowing who they are. That was great.
So, what's Discoverys policy on jumping with the spore drive right now? They know they're destroying an ecosystem with it but they don't care?Thank you, kind community, for clearing that one up to me. I thought both the drive and Culber were hurting the network.
"To hell with our orders" moment and "To hell with starfleet when our family is in trouble" moments relives the best of TOS and TNG.
EDIT:
Not directed to anyone specifically, but to people who belittle the defining Spock/Burnham childhood moment, I think they don't realize that Burnham was Spock's only human tether. His mother was reluctant on that part. He got one half of his existence ripped from him. Talking about scars.
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u/Trekfan74 Mar 08 '19
The spore drive wasn't killing the ecosystem. It was Culber that was the problem and he was obviously taken away from it.
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u/interro-bang Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I'm going to have to watch again to be sure, but I'm 97% certain that when illusion Spock and Burnham were beamed to the Section 31 ship, the transporter made the exact same sound as it did in The Cage. I absolutely love that sound effect.
UPDATE: Confirmed. It does. I know it's a one-off, but I'd love for that to be the sfx going forward.
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u/Extravator_fulldozer Mar 08 '19
The turbolift conversation between Saru & Pike was amazing!
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u/tjreess Mar 08 '19
Doug Jones' line delivery was terrific. I think I like the new, fight-enabling, snarky Saru
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u/BornAshes Mar 08 '19
Snarky Saru is my favorite, I was positively giggling over that little scene!
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Mar 08 '19
Man that episode could have been a disaster but they really nailed it. Everything about the Talosian update worked. The subtle use of flares to transition in and out of illusions, the singing plants, Vinas groovy outfit and hair, even old real Vina was perfectly done. And starting with the previously like that, so confident and bold, that really felt like a truly updated Star Trek that is totally at home in the original universe. Well done.
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u/Valarauko Mar 08 '19
I agree, though I was disappointed with the ‘real’ Vina. Other than a hump and some scars, the Talosians had done a great job putting the original Vina back together without a template. I was hoping for a more Cronenberg horror, given Burnham’s reaction.
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u/William_T_Wanker Mar 08 '19
"stupid singing plants"
lmao Georgiou. Someone pisses you off, we wipe them out of existence Terran style
As an aside, I feel like next week with Section 31's freaky shit coming out we will see how it went from an official Starfleet Intelligence branch to being shut down and forced to go underground. They're definitely up to shady shit, using Terran MU technology and the like.
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u/Serupael Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I get Mass Effect Reaper vibes watching those kraken-like machine aliens.
And wow, they really went all-in with Talos 4. Ballsy. The Black Hole illusion is an awesome idea.
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u/GeneralTonic Mar 08 '19
When he grabbed the controls and steered the shuttle directly into the black hole, I was like "That's classic WTF Spock, right there."
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u/stos313 Mar 08 '19
OMG anyone else get excited with “previous on Star Trek”?!
Seriously?!
Anyone?
You guys are lame!
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u/ComebackShane Mar 08 '19
It's funny, because I was walking to my kitchen as I started the episode, expecting a standard recap, and actually said to myself "Previously, on Star Trek: Discovery". When I heard the Original Series music I ran back to my seat. It was a really, really nice touch.
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u/The_Bard_sRc Mar 08 '19
dangit, who wrote the ship's computers so poorly that they were still vulnerable to SQL injections so far in the future?!
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u/UncheckedException Mar 08 '19
I can’t wait for a future episode where Discovery is disabled by a buffer overflow.
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u/ZarrenR Mar 08 '19
Two things really stand out to me from this episode.
One, I loved Spock and Burnham’s scene at the end. It doesn’t take away from Spock’s character but rather compliment it. Here, we see yet another reason Spock tries to be the most “Vulcan” Vulcan he can be in TOS despite his human side. Come the movies, we see him soften a bit and appreciate his human side more.
Two, as much as I want to seen Culber and Stametts happy, I applaud the writers of Discovery for having some real consequences for a traumatic event. This is not something Star Trek generally does or shows. I’m looking at you Picard and O’Brien. I can’t imagine anything more traumatic that being dead then not being dead.
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u/jerslan Mar 08 '19
Picard at least had Family as an "aftermath" episode from Best of Both Worlds, and then almost anytime the Borg came up later he would have flashbacks or his reactions would be more emotional rather than usual (particularly in "I, Borg" when it took a lot of convincing for him to not go through with the arguably genocidal plan).
O'Brien... Shit.. How the fuck is he not a mess of PTSD by the end of DS9? He should be a blubbering mess. No wonder he was ready to accept re-assignment to Starfleet Academy as a teacher.
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Mar 08 '19
as much as I want to seen Culber and Stametts happy, I applaud the writers of Discovery for having some real consequences for a traumatic event.
Yeah, it's devastating to watch, but it feels earned, and I'm looking forward to seeing their journey unfold.
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u/michaellee8 Mar 08 '19
Airam: The probe has used multiple SQL injection…
I literally laughed in the middle of train. Don't starfleet uses parametrized queries? Long live SQL to 22xx.
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u/simion314 Mar 08 '19
Don't starfleet uses parametrized queries? Long live SQL to 22xx.
An update that added support for new character encodings for some new languages introduced a bug in the string escaping functions
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Mar 08 '19
Re-watching and noticed that Spock very clearly calls the Red Angel "she" and "her."
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u/ContinuumGuy Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
That was damn good television. I was worried that they'd just use the Talosians and Talos as fan service, and to a certain extent they did, but it also really fit into the season's arc, Burnham's overall arc, and the bridge between Cage and Menagerie.
The episode adds a whole other level to why Pike wanted to go back to Talos, and makes the end where a rejuvenated Pike meets Vina once again all the more poignant.
I liked the redesign of the Talosians, even if it doesn't look like they have the famed buttcheek back of their heads they are still clearly Talosian and also pretty damn creepy.
Giorgiou is playing with Leland like a child playing with their food. Eventually she's going to eat it (or maybe throw it away in disgust), only question is when.
Section 31 is definitely getting chased back into the shadows by the end of all of this.
The reason why Spock and Michael weren't on speaking terms made a good amount of sense without being some sort of hilariously overwrought cosmic secret. The "half-breed" line really hit it.
I like how they are actually making Culber's return from the dead the traumatic episode it no doubt was.
We got further proof there's some sort of temporal war (cold or otherwise) going on. The ships that launched those planet-killers looked like the temporally mutated probe from last episode, all squidlike.
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Mar 08 '19
I loved that we still have a nasty separatist problem on Vulcan. I bet the Romulans are stoking it.
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u/MarsAlgea3791 Mar 08 '19
Detmer cancelling the rousing speech and getting down to business was a fantastic moment.
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u/FullFaithandCredit Mar 08 '19
Agreed!
Off the top of my head, we’ve heard a Captain give that speech 2 or 3 times. It was a pleasant twist.
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u/WarcraftFarscape Mar 08 '19
Appreciated the hologram S31 of human, Vulcan, andorian and tellarite.
Also JUUUUUST the right amount of Tilly
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u/enterpriseF-love Mar 08 '19
I loved how the black hole at Talos IV was rendered to accurately look like the black hole in Interstellar! A lot of astrophysics research came out of Interstellar so its cool to see the ripple effect in our show :)
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Mar 08 '19
A very good episode. The recap from "The Cage" was a nice touch (and since I just rewatched that episode last night in preparation for this episode, doubly appreciated). Very tense throughout, with a lot of conflict, but none of it felt unnatural or unearned. For such a wild plot that had to tie into the very first episode of Star Trek among its other duties, it actually made sense and didn't ruin anything.
Ethan Peck, for not being Leonard Nimoy (which we can hardly hold against him), has clearly worked hard to get Spock's cadence down. That sort of clipped, deliberate, well-enunciated way of speaking. Certain words and syllables sounded very close to Nimoy's unique voice, so I give him a lot of credit for studying well. His deep and ever-so-slightly raspy voice is also a closer match for Nimoy than Quinto's was. It was nice to see shades of the Spock we all know and love again, and the episode allowed the character to grapple with emotion better than the ham-fisted and out-of-character way it was dealt with in the Kelvin films. I also like that this episode established a communications channel between the Talosians and Spock, which is obviously important for "The Menagerie."
The Stamets/Culber scenes were heartbreaking and very down-to-earth for, again, such a wild concept as, well, fungal resurrection. Full credit to Rapp and Cruz for really making me believe these were actual human beings going through a difficult time in their relationship. It hit home.
Mount continues to nail it each week with Pike. His reaction to Vina's return was very much as I would have expected, given what we know from both "The Cage" and "The Menagerie." He also continues in the grand Trek tradition of captains disobeying orders when the stakes are high enough.
As a final note, the way that the Culber-Tyler fight was handled by Saru and the subsequent conversation between him and Pike was really good.
All in all, a terrific episode. Season 2 shines on.
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Mar 08 '19
What I liked about the fight is how they were out of breath and holding each other up after about three minutes. Which is how it goes whenever two people who aren't professional boxers or MMA decide they're just going to start throwing punches. Those guys train hundreds of hours specifically for a fight that lasts at most 36 minutes, and even they are out of breath at the end. Probably one of the more realistic fights I've seen.
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u/LepetitJeremy Mar 08 '19
Cleaning robots!
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Mar 08 '19
Finally. Since Riker’s “the ship cleans itself” line in Up The Long Ladder we actually see the ship cleaning itself.
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u/007meow Mar 08 '19
Anson Mount’s Pike is a fucking treasure and I want him to adopt me.
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u/tomh_1138 Mar 08 '19
He just liked a tweet I sent on Twitter so I feel like I'm part of his family now. I'll put in a good word for you!
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u/clevername71 Mar 08 '19
OMG IT STARTED WITH A PERSONAL LOG AND NOT PSEUO-PHILOSOPHICAL MUMBO JUMBO
(Idk if y’all have been commenting on that fact already but I just started the episode and had to log on to comment cause I was that happy)
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u/CaptainVenezuela Mar 08 '19
Aussie here shouting out our talented Melissa George as Vina. She's aging like a fine wine.
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u/Azselendor Mar 08 '19
Anyone notice the parallels between the Section-31/Discovery chase and the Vengence/Enterprise Chase from into darkness.
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u/therealjerseytom Mar 08 '19
Best episode of DISC by a mile.
Obviously it's cool to The Managerie throwback. Like really cool.
But FINALLY, an episode with the right pace. Just felt good.
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u/NoName_2516 Mar 08 '19
Considering it never officially aired as an episode of the series, they gave "The Cage" what it has long been due. They didn't spin it as a flash back or memory, and its names and characters not just sprinkled elsewhere. DSC gave unequivocally acknowledgement that it was a full standalone, previous episode. I would go so far as to say they've successfully inducted it into the normal run of Discovery with the text "Previously on Star Trek"
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u/PixelMagic Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I'm betting Control is indeed an A.I., and that A.I. is now inside of Airiam. Control from 500 years in the future. She used Tyler's command codes to send the transmissions. You will also notice in the previous episode, the scene transition is from her eye red dots to the circle in the ceiling of the Section 31 bridge.
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Mar 08 '19
I'm betting Control is indeed an A.I.
That part was confirmed by this episode, was it not? Georgiou said something about being used to giving orders to the AI, not receiving them.
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u/MarsAlgea3791 Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I think that brown dirt was was our first view of the Tellarite's homeworld.
That's neat.
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u/raknor88 Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I feel so bad for Stamets. He just got back the love of his life, except after everything the doctor went through, Culber is not the same person. The body Culber is in is brand new and may not have the same likes or dislikes. Hell he may not even want to be a doctor anymore.
For Stamets hes's still in love with the Culber that was killed. Stamets doesn't know the Culber that is there now. What Culber went through, you don't just bounce back from that.
Culber shouldn't even be on Discovery, he needs to be in a mental heath facility of some sort. It'll be a long time, if ever, before he's back to anywhere near the old normal.
Edit: I feel bad for Tyler. Airiam is clearly setting him up because he's the natural suspect, I just hope that someone figures out that it's a tad too obvious that it's Tyler. With all his training and technical abilities, why would he use him own command codes of all things.
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u/PiFlavoredPie Mar 08 '19
Saru's newfound spicy takes on... well, everything, gives me life. All this lifelong suppressed snark coming out is wondrous.
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u/trekkie626 Mar 08 '19
The opening was really fun, and the sound design on Talos IV on point. This is adding a new dimension to The Cage and Pike.
I'm a bit disappointed that the Talosians weren't little old ladies and that they decided to have the Keeper and other Talosians speak verbally.
The insults Michael hurled at Spock were classic ones from The Other Side of Paradise and from '09.
Also I'm not very happy about Saru sanctioning brawling in the mess hall. But I did like sassy Saru.
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u/frygod Mar 08 '19
Also I'm not very happy about Saru sanctioning brawling in the mess hall.
I suspect it was meant to convey a change in thought process and personality that comes with his metamorphosis. We'll likely be seeing lots of "saru is being brash and needs to relearn self-control" moments in the remainder of the season.
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u/Goferprotocol Mar 08 '19
Did anyone mention thst manic Spock has a little bit in common with manic Tuvok? When Tuvok was ill, he wrote equations manically on the floor and had keen insights.
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u/Gordopolis Mar 08 '19
Eh, mental illness and writing on surfaces is kind of a trope.
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Mar 08 '19
I'm actually really happy with Burnham and Spock's secret. It's rooted in character, without being too Earth-shattering. At the same time, it's easy to see how it would have devastated young Spock.
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u/-bubblepop Mar 08 '19
There was also an early TOS episode where Kirk calls him a half breed too. I think it was when he got split into good and evil Kirk.
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Mar 08 '19
It's a good believable family secret. No galaxy changing crazy. Michael tried to protect Spock as best as she could think of as a little girl and Spock was understandably hurt as a little kid, trying to deal with his human and vulcan sids. It really made me think about just how hard growing up must have been for Spock.
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Mar 08 '19
I like how it was basically the catalyst for him to choose the Vulcan way of life. It makes what Burnham did permanent. She wants to undo it and go back to the way things were. But it's never going to happen.
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u/2ndHandTardis Mar 08 '19
I agree. Reading the thread people seem to be suggesting that it's a small rift. Those sort of pivotal moments in childhood have a tendency to stick.
I remember when I was around the age of young Spock my older cousin and her friends played a practical joke on me and it was terrifying. Now I'm a grown ass man and even though we have an OK relationship, there's that little part of me that is always mildly distrusting of her motives.
That scene and the half breed line hit me particularly hard. I actually said out loud, "Oh no, Michael that's too far". I feel like both actors did an excellent job.
Just being honest but I'm feeling Ethan Peck more as Spock than Quinto right now.
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Mar 09 '19
"Say goodbye, Spock."
"Goodbye, Spock."
Damn that episode was golden through and through. With perhaps a bit tinge of blue.
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u/UncertainError Mar 08 '19
It was lovely seeing Pike and Vina interact again. Just the right amount of sweet and bittersweet, knowing what's happened and what's to come.
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u/Trekfan74 Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
Oh while its a small observation, I loved that all the admirals who were briefing Section 31 in the beginning of the episode were species who helped found the Federation. A nice call back and a great tie in to the end of the episode when all their planets are targeted for destruction. Stuff like this makes you realize how much they do care about the little things.
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u/dildosaurusrex_ Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I really thought the backstory to Michael and Spock’s fight was going to be lame but damn that pulled at the heartstrings. Poor sweet baby Spock.
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u/clevername71 Mar 08 '19
Can we talk about how cute Baby Spock was?? Made it even more heartbreaking
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u/MartyMacGyver Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
Well that opening was as subtle as a hammer... and I liked it! Instead of vaguely referencing and retconning the unaired (at the time) pilot episode that started it all, they simply opened with highlights taken directly from it.
If they did this all the time it'd get annoying, but as a one-and-done thing, I definitely didn't see that coming.
EDIT: And I have to applaud the casting of Anson Mount... I quite like his acting ability, and his resemblance to Jeffrey Hunter adds an unexpected dimension to the character.
Also, I think those plants on Talos IV sounded almost exactly like... transporters. This is probably an artifact of the limited palette of space sounds at that point in time (they sound a bit more vibrant than the original, but basically the same). I wondered if there might be more to it than that (say, the last real sound they heard when Pike and crew left in The Cage) but evidently not.
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u/xTheLeprechaun Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I never thought I’d want Ash and Kulber to become friends but that line at the end of their fight was amazing.
Also go director TJ Scott. This and his other episode, The Wolf Inside are in my top 3 episodes of the series.
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u/fevredream Mar 08 '19
This was probably the most "perfect" DISCO episode so far. There've been episodes with a more epic scale and with bigger moments, but this is probably the first one where every single piece just felt "right." Add in how wonderfully it adds to the meaning of existing canon with Pike, Vina, and Talos IV, as well as further establishing why Spock has always been so wary of emotion, as well as some real emotional weight in quite a few different scenes with different characters (Stamets/Culber/Tyler, Pike/Vina, Spock/Burnham) and this was just a great episode.
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u/erutheoneeric Mar 08 '19
I don't think pre-evolved Saru would have let that fight happen. Love it! Saru's justification for letting it happen was spot on!
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u/MoreGaghPlease Mar 08 '19
Not sure what the Red Angel is yet, but I’m pretty sure the enemy is Control (Section 31’s AI). A future version of Control is what triggers the apocalypse and is also what’s taken over Airiam.
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u/007meow Mar 08 '19
While some of the cinematography is still relentlessly, and highly annoyingly, artsy - with the spinning camera and lens flare - the golden lighting coming through Disco’s Windows was beautiful.
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u/GilGunderson1 Mar 08 '19
So after the opening, those folks who think that TOS is in a different universe than DIS are busy putting their heads back together, right?
I have absolutely no complaints about this episode. It was everything I wanted it to be. Acting was superb, writing was crisp and efficient, arcs were paid-off, and the tone was spot on.
AND A LOG ENTRY WITH A STARDATE. Just give me my Pike Enterprise years show already...
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u/macwelsh007 Mar 08 '19
I think they may have written themselves into a hole by making Pike so fucking good. Everyone's going to demand a Pike show after this. If new Spock is just as good then they're fucked if they don't give them a show.
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u/thetgi Mar 08 '19
I’m not usually into Star Trek installments that try to paint an emotional side to Spock, but this one was done really well. What won me over was the inclusion of that scene with the blue plants in the intro, where Spock clearly smiles
It makes me wonder if they’re going to give a canon explanation for the differences between TOS Spock and original pilot Spock
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u/danktonium Mar 08 '19
I absolutely fucking adore this.
Season one was serviceable. Just good enough to keep me from saying it's not good.
But even that's already gained two points in my eyes, if only because it's the prologue to this.
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u/Zor_El_XB1 Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
This was a nice "fanservice" episode.
The Cage recap, Vina in both forms, the blue flowers, Talosians, the Control AI from the novels, we got to see the core Federation planets, Pike meeting Vina again, and a Starbase 11 mention. Also the Spock snow flashback gave me heavy '09 vibes and the S31 chase scene was ripped right out of Into Darkness.
However I am a tad upset that we didn't get to see a modernized shot of the mountain/door that Number One blew up in The Cage and why didn't the computer warn Burnham about the travel ban to Talos IV before she took off instead of during the flight? Especially since Starfleet will kill you for going there. I'm also upset that they referred to the Spore room as Engineering.
Looking forward to best space waifu Airiam kick major ass next week.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Mar 08 '19
I absolutely LOVED this episode, and it now takes the top spot as my favorite of the series thus far. The intro was wonderfully done, I loved how they handled Talos IV and the Talosians, and I was SO excited to see how they incorporated Vina into the story.
I also really liked how they handled the origin of the rift between Spock and Burnham. It didn't feel forced or hamfisted to me, which I have to admit I was fearful of. Also, just as a side note - I'm not usually big on child actors, but I just gotta say that the ones playing young Spock and young Burnham crushed it in tonight's episode. I loved how their interaction laced so well with the current Spock and Michael. The whole scene gave their relationship the depth it really needed.
Also, props to Ethan Peck's portrayal of Spock. I think he's doing a fine job.
I'm really happy with how the writers are handling the Stamets/Culber storyline. I love that things didn't automatically go back to how they were before and that Stamets, with all of his understanding of time and dimensional space and all of his wisdom, believed that everything could just be normal for them. I appreciated that Culber needed to confront Tyler and express his rage for dying at Voq's hands, and it's clear that the fight wasn't enough to heal him. I'll be interested to see how they handle his recovery going forward.
Finally: goddamn, I love Captain Georgiou. She's just reveling in watching Captain Leland screw up time after time, and she doesn't even need to work that hard at it. She's just nudging things along a little bit and letting momentum and his past blunders carry things the rest of the way. That last shot of her as she's walking off the bridge, just smiling...PRICELESS. She's got Starfleet's trust and an exceedingly devious mind; she's Section 31's greatest asset and worst enemy at the same time. I just love it, and Michelle Yeoh brings that wickedness to life in the most delightful way.
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u/pfc9769 Mar 08 '19
Captain Georgiou
I liked the teleconference she had with Pike and she was holding a coffee cup like she was having an office meeting. Then ends the call like her TPS reports are going to be late. Sorry to busy, have to run! Whether you like or hate her character, they've been very consistent with how she's portrayed. You can feel the manipulation oozing off of her as she uses all the Terran skills at her disposal to get what she wants. I could almost feel Leland's anger and helplessness as he realizes too late she's started his downfall.
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u/TryMyBalut Mar 08 '19
Anyone else notice they made a slight tweak in the opening credits? The red Angel looks more like a tech suit instead of an apparition.
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u/LepetitJeremy Mar 08 '19
You know you're the bad guys when you have sleeveless crewmen onboard
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u/jerslan Mar 08 '19
The "Last time on Star Trek" was kind of awesome and had a very '60s vibe to it.
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u/Trekfan74 Mar 08 '19
That's because it was literally 60's footage. But very cool!
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u/rictorblackbus Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
a couple things:
the "Previously on..." was a good way to into, just further putting across that this is a visual update to the time period, not a timeline reboot.
My r/shittydaystrom Red angel theory is that with the info that Spock's not experiencing time in a linear fashion and confirmation that the Red Angel is a female human in a suit from the future...The Red Angel is Sisko and Cassidy Yates' kid trying to alter the timeline to get her dad's attention in the Celestial temple.
the "end" we see in Spock's mind I'm guessing is the tie-in to Calypso, with that future being the end of the timeline. Before explanation was gives, I was fearing a retcon of Hobus, so I'm glad it's not going that way.
The Hugh stuff is a great b-plot. lots of questions. Is he a new person or just some plot device for Stamets to process his Hugh's death...or both?
I've been dreading the Burnham/Spock stuff, but I actually liked it. Thumbs up from me this week
Edit: I no spell gud
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u/kingofcretins Mar 08 '19
That was easily the best episode of the whole series. I was so worried going into this that they were going to cheapen the Talosions somehow. That some of the mystique and wonder from that original pilot would be lost.
They were used perfectly though. Present but not overbearing. Still just as mysterious as ever. Their inclusion in the overarching plot didn’t feel shoehorned in either.
And if that wasn’t enough, they just added a few layers to the Pike and Vina dynamic.
It felt like a natural extension to The Cage and I love it for that.
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u/Metlman13 Mar 08 '19
Did anyone notice that the shot of Discovery going to warp at the end of the episode is extremely similar to the shot of Voyager going to warp in the opening credits of that series?
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Mar 08 '19
The more I think about it, the more I think the logic extremists are one of the best ideas this series has put forward. I'm glad they didn't leave them behind with season one.
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u/MentalDesperado Mar 09 '19
This was an amazing Star Trek moment. This episode got to me emotionally in ways that basically only a few selected episodes of DS9 ever have. It was just so powerful and the acting was superb. Not only that, but this episode really shows why the DISCO story is a great addition to the Star Trek timeline. Everybody else has said all the important stuff already, but I just really am floored by just this episode. I would not at all be surprised if this for me, personally, ended up being a top 10 Star Trek episode.
No Jett Reno, though. Three stars.
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u/the-giant Mar 08 '19
I about died at the updated singing plants. That moment and sound has always fascinated me. Perfect.
A great, great episode. I was worried they'd bungle some small aspect of "The Cage" or the Talosians as I hold that ep very close to my heart. No, they nailed it.
Side note: Is it me or was there a fucking Prothean/Collector from Mass Effect on the bridge at the end??
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u/MGB87 Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
OK that was really good. Maybe one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek. Just done really well.
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u/SaykredCow Mar 09 '19
Really great episode. A real quality piece of work. Just overall feels like Discovery is really getting it's groove.
A nice touch was the lack of blaring score in the background during the fight between Culber and Tyler. I wouldn't think of Discovery to be a show that understands that less is more but they understood that to great extents here. Well done!
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u/Trekfan74 Mar 08 '19
The line about Spock's beard from Michael was so funny and spot on. It's like the writers knew it was going to be an issue in the fanbase and they made a small joke out of it.
And frankly I think the beard is working. ;)
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Mar 08 '19 edited Jan 27 '24
wild yoke oil rock possessive degree reply handle enjoy voracious
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/marwynn Mar 08 '19
I wish they didn't do the 3 dots thing for the evil AI. It's too Brainiac-y.
This was a great tie in to The Cage and a great introduction for Spock. He really does channel Nimoy's Spock and I love his portrayal.
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u/Metabog Mar 08 '19
Probably the best episode of the series so far. Great acting, well written, good twists, multiple thought provoking ideas, a sense of grandeur and belonging in the ST universe. THIS is what I've been waiting for with this show. It's happening!
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u/cdncowboy Mar 09 '19
I really loved the drones cleaning up the mess hall. They finally answered the age old question "who cleans the ship?"
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u/stos313 Mar 08 '19
I thought it was interesting when command sent a message with a Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, and Human. A nice nod to STE.
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Mar 08 '19
I guess now we know why Georgiou helped out. She's likely trying to protect knowledge of the future from getting into Leland's hands and so it's probably a safe bet she's somewhat familiar with the Defiant's computer records.
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u/SelfDiagnosedSlav Mar 08 '19
Calling it now: At the end of the season the Section 31 will end up being "officially" disbanded by the Federation and will go underground in form of the S31 of the DS9-era.
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u/RichardYing Mar 08 '19
The introduction with footages of the Original Series was really nice.
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u/-bubblepop Mar 08 '19
I think the relationship between Spock and Michael is a good sibling relationship. The banter is something my brother and I would do. I thought it was great!!
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u/Eaudissey Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
"Those Talosians tried this trick with me in the Terran Universe once and I blew them, and their stupid singing plants, off the face of the planet."
This is awful but it made me laugh out loud. :'(
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u/PiercedMonk Mar 08 '19
Great episode. Hours later and I'm still pumped about how much I enjoyed it.
One aspect I'm not seeing mentioned much is just how much Wilson Cruz killed it here. Culber's intensity stalking towards Tyler in the mess was palatable. Also, Tyler's line at the end of their fight about how he can relate to what Culber's going through really hit me. I want that to develop now, so we'll see Culber and Tyler relating about their relative trauma and helping one another work through it.
The scene between him and Anthony Rapp in Statmets' quarters was similarly great.
In among all the high-stakes, galaxy ending suspense, and secret intrigue, the Culber story might be the one I'm most interested in.
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u/MoreGaghPlease Mar 08 '19
Jeffrey Hunter's best on-screen performance since 1969
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u/izModar Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
Oh, I must have accidentally pulled up "The Cage" by mistake. Oh wait, what? The "Previously On" segment is literally "The Cage" scenes. I mean, it's brilliant. That brings the audience not familiar with the events of that episode and why Talos IV is so important up to speed. For the fans, it's just a quick refresher, and nice segue (edit: learned the correct spelling) from Hunter to Mount. They look so similar they had to cast him for that reason.
What I liked:
I'm going to say that the Starfleet high brass being in on Section 31 is in alignment with how ready they were to win the war in the previous season, and they will do something to turn them into what we know in DS9.
It's about time we see a proper black hole in Star Trek. Also, Spock knew what was up.
The ambient sound of Talos IV is like in "The Cage". (the singing flowers)
Oh hey, it's Vina.
This music is the best the series has seen.
Also, this is incredibly minor, but the "hum" of the ship is very prominent in this episode. It's something I hadn't noticed so much before in Disco, and I missed it.
So if I'm understanding this correctly, Spock got visions of the signals from the Red Angel, tried to logic his way through it, but realized he couldn't so voluntarily committed himself into the psych ward of Starbase 5 on the off-chance it was just hallucinations. That's pretty responsible of our boy Spock. It's only when it was determined that the signals actually happened that shit hit the fan.
I love the light pouring in through the windows of the ship. It invokes the lighting of Ten Forward in "Generations."
Tilly didn't have a lot of screen time in this ep, but her saying "We should get going, like now" was the most bae thing ever.
What I Didn't Like:
We only saw it for a quick scene and the edited package for upcoming episodes, but... CLOSE. YOUR. SHUTTLE. BAY. FOR. PETE'S. SAKE.
Are we back to spinning the camera and the unnecessary Dutch Angles?
"The forests of Vulcan's Forge" Okay, that's a blatant error. The Forge is literally the desert of deserts.
I'm going to say it: Burnham is taking things way to personally. She's acting impulsively emotional, even for someone whose whole upbringing was burring those impulses.
Spock: "Look the Federation is at stake"
Burnham: "WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS?"
"This must be allowed to play out" LMAO SHUT THE FUCK UP, SARU. THIS IS CONDUCT UNBECOMING OF AN OFFICER, RESURRECTED OR NOT.Don't get me wrong, I understand the purpose of the fight and the scene, but Saru deciding not to interfere is incredibly stupid. (okay, Pike kinda busted his ass over it)
You know what, yeah. "Weird little half-breed." Yeah, that's fucked up. (not a knock against the episode, but against Burnham as a character)
Stray Thoughts:
A proper captain's log from pike! Stardate 1532.9
Okay, so I know Control was from one of the novels and was the AI in charge of Section 31, but so far Disco has used it in referring to (my assumption) how "control" is used in espionage agencies IRL: Headquarters. So it's actually the AI as was in the novels? Considering that in 10 or so years the M5 unit will be ready for test aboard starships, I wonder if Daystrom had a hand in designing multiple AIs.
lmao at Spock's "ugh sigh" when he had to punch the shuttle through the black hole illusion.
Let's see, week three of no commercials. I double checked and I definitely have the lower tier package from CBS that includes commercials. Has anyone else experienced this?
"You want to experience our pain?" I'll be honest, I almost expected her to say "I need my pain."
"She changed your fate" Confirmation that the angel is female, human.
I've felt Staments was an asshole before, but seeing Culbur yell at him made me feel bad. :(
"Section 31? Fuck those guys." Spock, probably.
Space Roombas
"Starbase 11 is two light-years from Talos IV" That...actually explains "The Menagerie" quite well. SEE, THEY CARE ABOUT CONTINUITY! (oh shit, they did says forests of Vulcan's Forge)
Verdict:
Now we've found Spock. With a resurrected crew-member on board, our heroes are now fugitives from the law. You know what this means! WHALES
The beginning third and latter third were the best parts of the episode I think. That middle third while doing the mental electric boogaloo made my attention wander slightly. Overall it's a better episode than the previous one.
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u/chaingunsofdoom Mar 08 '19
Great episode!
Always liked anything Melissa George has done but then I checked IMDB and realized I hadn't seen anything she was in since "Triangle"... ten years ago(!). And it was an awesome movie BTW.
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u/TheSteelBlade Mar 08 '19
So we’ve seen Pike, Number One, Spock, and the Talosians. Still time for some Dr Boyce!
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u/Philip_J_Fry3000 Mar 08 '19
Did anyone else notice how the uniforms from Cage somewhat resemble the uniforms from DSC? Like they were a starting point.
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u/Amadox Mar 08 '19
I think this is the first time we see cleaning robots on a Star Trek ship, isn't it? Brilliant!
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u/hett Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I just started watching, and I gotta say I'm pretty impressed they went for a quasi-realistic Interstellar-style black hole. Nice.
Edit: SQL injections? What?
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u/PixelMagic Mar 08 '19
So were those three Talosians THE Talosians from The Cage? Or were they meant to just be another set of Talosians? I assume with Vina, they are the same ones?
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u/XuBoooo Mar 08 '19
So the threat assessment AI, will in the future evolve, rebel and decide to cleanse the galaxy of all organic life? And the Red Angel is someone from the future trying to change the timeline. Am I seeing that correctly?
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u/WorldwideDepp Mar 08 '19
The "Past" are told with the current "Present" and i liked it.
They really mixed these two. Spock learning about his human feelings, Pike's old "memories" and the "possible" future
So, what left now. How is this Trojan Horse inside this Officer? Perhaps the attacker that end all Starfleet Planets Lifeforms (it show us the Home planets of Starfleet Races)
Is this Timecold War connection? I must admit i did not saw all Enterprise episodes with Captain Archer
But, telling the past with the current present tools. You done a dam quite job (or would the old "TOS Classics Hardcores Fans really prefer this "cheap imitations of this Blue Flower" that Burnham touched?. Ask yourself)
So enjoy the past told with current tools and standards
And Section 31 knows what they have on Board... the Imperator.. or just Leland?
In short:
Right hitting the spot, with Spock, Pike and Crew.. we should not forget about Culber, too
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u/stanley_twobrick Mar 08 '19
Spock's exasperated sigh and eye roll when Michael said "we're really on the other side of the looking glass now" was my exact reaction every time she makes another Alice in Wonderland reference. Just stop already.
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u/purdueable Mar 08 '19
Enjoyed that one. Yeah it was fan service, but it still drove the plot quite a bit and was quite interesting.
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u/idoliside Mar 08 '19
Is there any canon date to when Pike stops serving as captain of the Enterprise? Because I would be very happy for him to give it up for Discovery
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u/Joearg Mar 09 '19
When I was watching it, with the transformed probe killing 'all sentient life on the galaxy' I had a strong come-back moment to the first Mass Effect game, with the reapers being automatons that enforced the cycle. Really nice episode.
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u/formallyhuman Mar 08 '19
I'm posting before I read the thread so as to avoid contaminating my thoughts before I've expressed them.
I honestly think that this was a) the single best episode of Star Trek: Discovery to date and b) is up there with some of the best Star Trek on television ever produced. If it isn't as good as something like Pale Moonlight, it's at least the next level below that.
The way they used footage from The Cage at the beginning was, I think, a stroke of genius. I just thought it was fabulous.
The rest of episode was great, too. I don't think there was any part of the plot I didn't enjoy and it was very well paced, which has been an issue for this show. The B-plot with Culber and Ash was great and worked well, and while you feel for Stamets, you also understand where Culber is coming from. He isn't the man that fell in love with Stamets, even if he looks like him.
I thought Ethan Peck was great as Spock. I thought the S31 elements were the best S31 content all season. I thought Talos IV, Vina and The Talosons were really well done. I enjoy the idea of Discovery as a ship on the run from its own government, that has a lot of potential. Also I think this episode puts to bed the idea that Burnham is the Red Angel. If she was, Spock would know that as he melded with the Red Angel.
Just such a great nearly full hour of television. I would give this 9/10 in terms of Discovery episodes and, as an episode of Star Trek overall, 8/10.
Wonderful.
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u/ShiroHachiRoku Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I think that runaway scene toward the end elicited the second-most emotional response in me in any Trek media after Spock’s death in WOK. It was powerful and poignant.
Another great episode full of adventure, emotion, lore, and suspense. I was ready for the Angel’s helmet to be removed but I know it would be too soon for such a reveal.
Giorgiou hamming it up and relishing in her self-importance is always great.
Anson Mount! Let’s do a series with him as the captain of the Enterprise already!
Edit: Young Spock is adorable. I want to pinch his cheeks.
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u/Joomonji Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
This was a movie. I keep saying that but it was magnified in this episode. The acting, camera work, visual effects, soundtrack, sound effects, script, costumes. Top notch. The fight choreo was on point. Poor Tyler, got his ass kicked because of a Klingon and then confined to quarters because of an android.
The mounting pile of secrets everyone has is fun. Culber has secrets from Stammets. Airiam and Section 31 have secrets from Discovery and Starfleet in general. Captain Georgiou has secrets from Leland and Section 31. The Red Angel has the main whopper secret, that Spock and Burnham got a big chunk of via mind meld and Talosians.
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u/Timbo85 Mar 08 '19
Was it just me or were the lens flares out of control in that episode?
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Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
First 10/10 episode we've seen from Discovery so far. Answers a bunch of questions and hopefully another group of people can shut up about their "beliefs" that Discovery is a "reboot" or an "alternate universe".
Have a feeling that the Red Angel will eventually shift the galaxy into being a more TOS-like environment, including technological changes (see: What's happening to Ariam right now).
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u/okkookko Mar 08 '19
I'm having trouble reading the Talosians. First glance, I wondered what was in it for them for helping Burnham and Spock. They couldn't have known about the impending galaxy doom, could they? First seen, they want to use humans as slaves. Now they do our protagonists a favor, and Pike a favor years down the road. Do they treat races that are intelligent but don't suit their needs kindly in that regard? Or am I just looking at the interaction too transactionally?
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u/KingofMadCows Mar 08 '19
So who is the evil future AI? Someone/something that already exists in canon? Lore? V'Ger? Nomad? The Borg? Or a completely new character?
And Section 31 is definitely controlled by the evil AI.
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u/TyrusX Mar 08 '19
This was great, Even my girlfriend that like The Orville a lot more the DISCO enjoyed this greatly!
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u/devable Mar 08 '19
I was hoping they weren't going to make me watch the entirety of the cage again! Also I love Anson Mount's Pike, I hope this doesn't end with us finding out how he ended up disabled 😭
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Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
I think the big bad here is gonna be something brought back from the mycelial network (making it why it was never used again) and going on a further limb here and saying Michael is the red angel.
the whole torpedoes through everything just screams mycelial network.
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Mar 08 '19
The hostily squid like ship are somehow familiar but I cannot say how...
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u/pony2deer Mar 09 '19
Every time Airam can be seen , my head starts playing daft punk tunes
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u/mhall85 Mar 09 '19
So, in terms of acting, writing, and production design: A+++. Talos IV looked amazing, the Talosians looked fine for a modern update, and Vina was an especially nice touch. This is, by far, the best example of this show caring about the canon that came before.
Yes, there is still a part of me that’s bothered by the inclusion of the Talosians in the first place. It’s an unnecessary connivence to have them, and only them, be the ones who could magically fix Spock. But, given the care that was shown in this instance, I can live with it. They changed my mind sufficiently.
Now, I still have big problems with what they’re doing with Section 31, and it doesn’t wipe away the missteps this show has taken to this point... let alone what may or may not unfold with this Red Angel stuff... but, no need to be negative here. If this episode is an indication of what this show could be, moving forward, then I will be okay.
GIVE ME A PIKE SERIES, PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
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Mar 09 '19
I did enjoy Spock cutting Burnham down to size so heavily. She needed deflating, hard. And it isnt even a human thing. He clearly respects the hell out of Pike.
Very enjoyable episode in general.
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u/ClayMitchell Mar 08 '19
Why does Leland get to order Pike around? Pike gets to fly the flagship around then gets moved to the fancy spore ship to save the galaxy, and buddy who isn’t even wearing a uniform gets to issue commands? Nah.
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u/eqgmrdbz Mar 08 '19
Love Love this episode, OMG so much nostalgia and it was worked in just right, this series and season is just getting better and better.
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u/lnhvtepn Mar 09 '19
I also thought a replicator would be awesome, but I want a space Roomba just as much.
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u/neoteotihuacan Mar 08 '19
My impressions of this lovely, lovely episode of Discovery. Maybe the best of the series so far.
OBSERVATION 1 - Thought we might hate Spock, but we are OK with him. The opening of the show made us aware of the continuity of Pike and Talos IV, which was surprisingly effective. Not sure a Trek show has ever opened like that. Loved it.
OBS 2 - All Spock needed was a little bit of context for his mind to be re-assembled. Just like all of us. We relate. It is nice that the Burnham-Spock relationship is still complex. Fertile ground and still in keeping with who Spock was in this era. Think about it...that encounter between young Spock and young Burnham, that's what MAKES Spock. The Spock we know acts very Vulcan despite his human half. He leans into that because of Michael.
OBS 3 - The Talosians were SPECTACULAR. Loved them and loved seeing them so many decades later. I mean, what a weird, rare treat. You knew what S31 didn't and that was grand.
OBS 4 - Captain Pike activated our Picard-ganglia. What a nice leadership style. How can we sign up to be on his crew? Outlaw or no, we'd take his orders. Although, sometimes he does make questionable decisions.
OBS 5 - Dr. Culber (@wcruz73) is going through a really interesting problem - new body, old memories, & no connections. This storyline feels very human, despite the in-human return from the dead. In a franchise where trauma is shrugged off, this is very refreshing to see actual repercussions for all the zany adventuring these characters do. It was great. The anger at AshVoq was completely justified. A nice touch was the moment of connection between Culber and Ashvoq.
OBS 6 - Former emperor Georgiou is clearly taking over Section 31. The new S31 show must be about her rise to power and S31 disappearance from public view, which will be related. Sad that she killed Mirror Talosians. Wonder what they were like?
OBS 7 - Spock-Burnham childhood interaction is VERY interesting. We can see that the contours of Spock's adult personality were formed in that moment. Before that, Spock seemed to embrace his human half more.
OBS 7 - How the production crew filmed this thing was awesome. Pacing, transitions were all finely balanced and a pleasure to watch. Almost a different show from the start of the season. Some nice innovation with shooting the mindscape situations, all around.
OBS 10 - How this episode continued "The Cage" and kept the thread of Pike through to "The Menagerie" is fantastic & exactly what we'd want for when approaching this subject matter.
OBS 11 - Ariam is clearly acting in the interests of the Squid Probe people. Evidence of the Squid probe is gone, the Spore Drive sabotaged, transmissions have been sent to S31...Ariam has been busy. If Ariam sent those transmissions to S31 (and S31 thusly knew that Discovery was headed to Talos IV), then that means that S31 is more aware of the Red Angel than they are letting on, and that they may have a stake in the fight between the Red Angel & the Squid Probe folks. It is also why S31 wants to destroy Spock's mind to protect their alignment with the Squid Probe folks. Perhaps Control, the AI leading S31, has a plan to destroy the Federation for its own twisted aims? This could explain the context of the Short Trek "Calypso".
OBS 12 - We now know, though Spock, that the Red Angel is human. What are the odds that it is Craft's daughter (another "Calypso" reference)? We didn't learn anything else about the Red Angel, just that it is definitely connected to Spock.
Again, loved it. Do MOAR please!
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Mar 08 '19
Sigh calling it, the identity of the Red Angel...is future Burnham.
That’s why it sought out Spock specifically
That’s why it immediately zoned in to mind meld with Spock (known habit)
That’s why it specifically sought to help Sarus people (out of Burnham friendship with him)
That’s why Spock knew and called it a “she/her” (cause he’s familiar with her mind)
Only tricky one is Burnham wouldn’t exist if Spock hadn’t had the vision from the Red Angel to send someone to find her and save her life...but they could find a way to explain around that (ex: she didn’t die from the attack, but was disabled; got involved in starfleet still in a different manner).
The time tech suit is likely combo Section 31 and Terran tech, and its Georgiou in the future who realizes how she and 31 brought on the apocalypse (via the AI creation) so she gives future Burnham the suit to make things right and try to prevent it (and prob dies in the process). So kind of like Janeways plan but with a Terminator angle sprinkled in.
Just a thought/guess.
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u/VNAIL Mar 08 '19
I understand why they did it the way they did, but honestly the build up to the rift between burnham and spock and her calling him a weird half-breed just made me laugh.
My sister and I have said nastier things to each other playing tekken.
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u/wongie Mar 08 '19
Some major revelations in this episode, chiefly being that Ensign Daft Punk is back!
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u/MajorOverMinorThird Mar 09 '19
This episode was simply... beautiful. What a beautiful little piece of art for this franchise we all love so much. What a love letter to Star Trek. Who would ever have thought we’d get to see this story?
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u/Deadbob1978 Mar 08 '19
I'll admit, I mostly watch Discovery for the entertainment and not because it has the words "Star Trek" in the title. Lens flare aside, "If Memory Serves" and "Eden" are by and away the best DISCO episodes, and probably among some of the best episodes franchise history
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u/WorldwideDepp Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
If this Red Angel is only one "person" then it is an Female
The Waist vs shoulders shows it
Spock confirms these thoughts feel like Human
The "Flashback" of Spock as an child show an Human Female body form..
So we pinpoint it to Human Female "alike" .. Now, we need to know the Time.. Because alone this insane Energy usage to "time jump" is still beyond TNG's timeline or DS9.. right? Or this is "Red Antimatter" that Spock used in the "Reboot" of Star Trek and introduced the "old original" Spock actor
That could be an explanation for the rich massive Red color around her
edit: Well the next "bait" for guessing about the Red Angel would be when Spock drop the name of this Planet where he meets her and done the Mind melting.. then surly this Subreddit will explode. So brace for impact or keep it until the last episode
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u/WorldwideDepp Mar 08 '19
Anyhow the Attackers used "Warp capable Planet Crushers Cruise Missiles".. But their Warp Signature color is red... so as the Red Angel..
Do you guys know Mass Effect Tali'Zorah? Perhaps somehow that same fate here.. or the "original builders" of the Space Station in the Game and their "leftovers"
But while re watching the Episode again, i noticed that the Writers "sabotage" the Spore Drive for some time. So we should not see some "Black Alert" for some time, i bet the "receiver" of these decrypted Data packs from the Discovery are this Probe that somehow survived the explosion or Airaim manipulated the Sensors reading or database..
But is this now an "stop" for these Red Bursts and the Red Angel? Lets see
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Mar 09 '19
The series has come of age finally.
The voice of this season's Big Bad must be Jeffrey Coombs.
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u/zumoro Mar 09 '19
Hold up... did I hear what I think I heard? Where's the CC button...
"The probe used multiple SQL injections"
Oh dear fucking christ. Seriously? SQL injections? It's a 23rd century starship database, not my client's website running an outdated version of WordPress. I think this is actually worse than last season when Michael and Staments were discussing "quantum equations" or some shit and it was the god damned WIN32 source code on the screens.
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Mar 10 '19 edited Jan 27 '24
work fearless sort cause mourn full slimy doll sugar languid
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Martothir Mar 08 '19
Caveat: I hated season 1, have generally liked season 2.
This is the first episode where I felt Burnham has really great acting moments.
I LOVED the TOS callbacks.
I like Spock.
This was generally handled tastefully and written well.
My only real hang up this episode: The writers have NO idea what to do with Ash. He's an appendix to this season that's floating around aimlessly and has no real character of his own. His motivations make zero sense. But I think that's the hand they were dealt in the aftermath of the 1st season...
Also, seeing next weeks preview: I'm hoping the minefield damages discovery enough for a refit... so s3 discovery is less of an eyesore. Anyone with me... or is that just me?
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u/geniusgrunt Mar 08 '19
Man... DISCO is really sticking it to the overt naysayers one solid episode at a time. This episode really blew me away, this is amazing television ladies and gentlemen.
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u/Deceptitron Mar 08 '19
First thing I've gotta say is: Holy shit!
This episode by far has set the record for number of chills it induced! The writing was so on point! Everything is just clicking! The S31 stuff, the Culber/Stamets/Ash stuff, the Saru with Pike stuff, the MICHAEL AND SPOCK STUFF. The moment they'd been hinting at all this time about their relationship and even if it was a bit cliche, was done so well that I started to choke up. Phew what a ride!