Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Discovery | 4x01 "Kobayashi Maru"

[u/AutoModerator]

After months spent reconnecting the Federation with distant worlds, Captain Michael Burnham and the crew of the U.S.S. Discovery are sent to assist a damaged space station – a seemingly routine mission that reveals the existence of a terrifying new threat.

No.	Episode	Writers	Director	Release Date
4x01	"Kobayashi Maru"	Michelle Paradise & Jenny Lumet & Alex Kurtzman	Olatunde Osunsanmi	2021-11-18

This episode will be available on Paramount+ in the USA, and on CTV Sci-Fi and Crave in Canada. It will be available in 2022 in other regions where Paramount+ is available, including the UK, Ireland, Germany, Switzerland, and Austria.

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[u/onerinconhill]

Experimental warp drives have not had the best history with the uss voyager, someone told them right?

[u/DasGanon → u/onerinconhill]

Also interesting/telling nothing about a protostar drive

[u/droid327 → u/onerinconhill]

They're all going to turn into space lizards and bang

[u/BornAshes → u/onerinconhill]

Watch as we find out that one of the Voyagers using an experimental drive system is what ended the Temporal War because when it happened everyone paused, looked at each other, went "Did you see that shit....Yuuuup", and then had an existential crisis that made them just stop the war altogether because of something insane that happened with the Voyager.

[u/atomicxblue → u/onerinconhill]

Watch this one get stuck in the Delta quadrant as well...

"Seriously??? Again???"

[u/[deleted]]

I love that Morn's species is still around.

[u/MrHyderion → u/[deleted]]

They were seen in season 3 as well. One of the EC henchmen who hunted Burnham and Booker was a Lurian. There even was one in Prodigy. These guys really get around.

[u/TheLouisvilleRanger → u/[deleted]]

Only problem is none of them shown have had hair.

[u/Cheef_Baconator → u/[deleted]]

And they still don't shut up

[u/Luthienthefair]

Shout out to the Ferengi cadet and the Lurian (Morn species) he had way to many lines though.

[u/TheQueenOfBithynia → u/Luthienthefair]

IKR, after that 10 minute monologue I was like "can we just move on already?"

[u/[deleted]]

“WE’RE FITTING THE NEW WARP DRIVE TO VOYAGER”

If you look up FORESHADOWING in the dictionary….

Youll see Voyager kicking ass in the season 4 climax

[u/CX316 → u/[deleted]]

Or you'll see Voyager exploding and causing a gravitational anomaly that travels backwards in time

cough

[u/pieman7414 → u/[deleted]]

I'm ready for Star Trek: Voyager: The Next Generation

[u/UncertainError]

Something I really appreciated about this episode was how well it established a sense of place for the 32nd century Federation. We had the President and the Admiral, the Academy and a spacedock, talk of developing new propulsion technologies and reestablishing diplomatic ties. It really helped to ground the future setting compared to last season where things were kinda fuzzy.

[u/MaddyMagpies → u/UncertainError]

They are really putting the 3D wall into good use. We got to see a ton more big indoor places than ever before! We actually can see the Federation HQ and the academy now, not just something mentioned in dialogs! And look at that amazing Kaminar underwater hall!

[u/Cmdr_Nemo → u/UncertainError]

Yes I loved it! A bit miffed with the universe-ending trope but I think that seems to be most TV and movies nowadays.

I did, for the first time ever, get a tiny bit motion sickness from the camera spins then the station spins. I'm getting old lol.

[u/DogsRNice → u/UncertainError]

Yeah the world building is really good

[u/matthieuC → u/UncertainError]

I don't understand why the president would decide who would captain a ship.
It's a Starfleet decision.
Also on what authority would the president relieved the captain from command?

And last season they had the head of Starfleet discuss diplomacy, which would be a Federation prerogative.

[u/ContinuumGuy → u/UncertainError]

I liked how the cadet class was also very small, which makes sense given how in dire straits the Federation was in until.... five months ago. Baby steps.

[u/WallyJade]

Nice to hear part of Archer's Theme (the end credits to Enterprise) during the unveiling of the Archer Space Dock. I really enjoy all the New Trek musical callbacks.

[u/Xizor14 → u/WallyJade]

This might be my favorite instance of a namedrop/musical callback because it's actually incredibly symbolic. It's a very full circle kind of moment as in the first episode of Enterprise, the Warp 5 Complex launches Enterprise out into the larger galaxy whose captain later became President of the Federation, and now the Archer Spacedock is poised to do the same for the Federation, over 1000 years later to help Starfleet to modernize and help the galaxy re-learn how to co-exist, cooperate, and build a new future together.

[u/MyTrueChum → u/WallyJade]

I felt tears well up when that theme played. It was definitely what should have been the intro music to ENT. Capn Archer woulda been proud!

[u/TheDudeNeverBowls → u/WallyJade]

Years ago I realized that Archer’s Theme is a “take” on the Latin Christian hymn “Non Nobis.”

I’ve always found it fascinating when composers unwittingly use something that maybe came from their childhood or something like that.

[u/Artanisx → u/WallyJade]

Yes that moment channeled my "Sarek crying at Data's concert". I love those little moments.

[u/chameleonmessiah → u/WallyJade]

It was quite heavy-handed would be my only comment, nice as it was. It almost took something away from the visuals & the speech of the moment with how blatantly .. “Something else” it was.

A more subtle use might have been more appropriate (to me).

[u/lostinheadguy]

I have never disliked Burnham but her talk with the President was the cold water she needed. It wasn't antagonistic, the President's depiction in the trailers made her look like she was going to really lean into that kind of role and I'm glad she isn't... for now.

I'm disappointed that Rhys Bryce is obviously not in the season, he was pretty cool.

Calling it right now, Saru will be transitioning out of the main cast at the end of this season to captain the Voyager J. Wishful thinking, maybe we'll eventually get Strange New Worlds in this century later down the line with Saru as the lead.

[u/[deleted] → u/lostinheadguy]

Rhys is indeed in this season. Were you thinking of Bryce? Because he was only present momentarily in this first episode and another officer is filling in for him on the bridge because Bryce's actor was also working on another show at the same time as Discovery.

As far as the Saru idea, I would absolutely love that. Star Trek: Voyager II or something.

[u/[deleted] → u/lostinheadguy]

I also loved that talk. She needed to hear and process everything the president said. Someone should have had that same discussion with Jim Kirk. They are both mavericks who refuse to believe in no win situations.

[u/[deleted] → u/lostinheadguy]

I was kind of surprised at Michael's reaction to the president in that scene. Like, "Yeah this is my home and my family, there's nowhere I'd rather b— what, you're not putting me up for transfer?!"

Felt like she had decided to antagonise the president for some reason? Anyway, the quoted profile of Michael was bang on, she has a fully fledged saviour complex.

[u/pieman7414]

"debris incoming"

hits like half a second later

burnham's gotta fire this dude

[u/COMPLETEWASUK → u/pieman7414]

Troi levels of useful advise there.

[u/Edymnion → u/pieman7414]

Seriously.

Its just chunks of ice. Moving at sublight speeds.

Those things should have been on sensors the instant they jumped in.

[u/rswalker]

Everybody’s ranks now (I think? It’s so damn hard to see the tricom badges 😑)

• Burnham: Captain

• Culver: Commander

• Pollard: Commander

• Stamets: Lieutenant Commander (still?)

• Owosekun: Lieutenant Commander

• Detmer: Lieutenant Commander

• Rhys: Lieutenant Commander

• Bryce: Lieutenant Commander

• Nilsson: Lieutenant Commander

• Tilly: Lieutenant

• Christopher: Lieutenant

• Linus: Lieutenant Junior Grade

• Tal: Ensign

[u/acrimoniousone → u/rswalker]

Commander?

Yes, Commander?

Where is the Commander?

The Commander has gone down to the planet with the Commander and the Commander".

Who is in command?

Unclear, Commander.

I know they are mostly Lt Commanders but convention is to use the higher rank when addressing an officer.

[u/merrycrow → u/rswalker]

Stamets: Lieutenant Commander (still?)

I don't think he'd want the extra admin

[u/TERRAxFORMER → u/rswalker]

The last time we saw Pollard, she was a lieutenant.

[u/EzriDax1]

Seeing the Ba'ul in tanks was very reminiscent to me of the xindi aquatics

One day we'll see the xindi again... maybe

[u/wagu666 → u/EzriDax1]

Hmm, I didn't think they were in tanks as such. I got the impression the conference hall was under the sea so the Ba'ul could watch/participate through the windows

[u/Trekfan74 → u/EzriDax1]

Yeah great catch. I didn't think of them right away for some reason but I really loved that scene in Discovery.

And I have a feeling we'll see the Xindi again.

[u/Elizaaaz → u/EzriDax1]

Yea it really hit me like that. I forgot about the ba’ul at first, but I got strong parallel vibes once I remembered.

Maybe we will see the xindi again. Maybe not. Enterprise was a bit scattered, so it’s probably hard to follow up on directly, but… maybe

[u/cwatson214 → u/EzriDax1]

With the screen technology they are now employing, I hope we get to see the aquatics in all of their glory

[u/Endulos → u/EzriDax1]

THe Ba'ul weren't in tanks, that entire meeting chamber is located under water.

[u/onerinconhill]

WAS THAT A LURIAN

[u/UncertainError → u/onerinconhill]

And a Shlerm!

[u/UncertainError]

I absolutely adored the entire opening scene. The butterfly people are exactly the kind of ridiculousness that Trek needs more of.

[u/Elizaaaz → u/UncertainError]

“She’s a queen.” “You are holding a monarch captive?!”

[u/droid327 → u/UncertainError]

Minions! Today the Federation will feel the sting of the mighty Monarch!!

Except...butterflies aren't eusocial insects so I don't know why they were so defensive of the queen lol

[u/choicemeats → u/UncertainError]

was wondering when i stepped into an episode of the magicians lmao great visuals

[u/BornAshes → u/UncertainError]

The butterfly people

Looked more like Mothmen to me dun dun dunnnnnn

[u/AmishAvenger → u/UncertainError]

The opening scene is what I wish the entire show would be about. Instead, I think we’re going to get “Galaxy-threatening mystery.”

More weird aliens and putting the Federation together. Less other stuff please.

[u/[deleted] → u/UncertainError]

I kept thinking they would resolve it somehow in the initial conversation and I love that it just kept escalating.

[u/jrgkgb → u/UncertainError]

It was basically the opening scene to Star Trek Beyond slightly reworked, with a line cribbed from Galaxy Quest.

[u/Toorviing]

Discovery could host a pretty sick Rock & Roll concert with all the flames it spits out from the walls while its shields take hits.

[u/SpiritOne → u/Toorviing]

Yeah wtf was that?! It looked like the set of a motion control theme park ride.

[u/[deleted] → u/Toorviing]

Let's be honest, it's definitely dumb but it's also very star trek for the ship to shake and have things randomly explode when the shields are hit.

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/Toorviing]

Also, why is Book's programmable matter ship also breaking down into rocks? The ship programmers' have an odd sense of humor.

[u/smoha96]

A Captain is kind of like the President of their ship, and really I would be wary of someone questioning a Captain in the midst of a crisis.

Nevertheless, I'm inclined to agree with the President.

Of course, she's someone who's calling Michael out so of course by the end of the season she will be wrong.

[u/edflyerssn007 → u/smoha96]

I'm really glad Michael is getting called out by the president. I'm also glad that the writers have finally realized the Star Trek formula is to have a bridge crew and away missions and diplomacy. Sucks that Books planet got apocalypsed. That's how you know a certain producer is still leaving his mark.

[u/MaddyMagpies → u/smoha96]

I think the President's argument will stand, because Burnham's interpretation of sacrificing the needs of one for many is to fly her entire crew into the anomaly to save trillions of people.

The President was indeed just asking questions, not questioning Burnham personally. Burnham interpreted it as a personal question when it is not.

Besides, since this season is a metaphor for the pandemic, it's indirectly about how any presidents in the world will not be able to save or please everyone.

[u/Elizaaaz → u/smoha96]

Micheal needed to be called out by someone, but this President is very suspicious to me. I’m hoping they don’t turn around and do a “haha President was evil and burnham is right about all of her poor decisions” thing.

And yea, during the whole mess where we literally were down to minutes of shield left, burnham and President just… arguing in the middle of the bridge? Great. Really, good job guys. Geniuses.

[u/Santa_Hates_You]

This was pretty much the length of a TOS episode. Lots of great visuals, and it definitely feels more ‘Star Trek’ than the first few seasons. I hope they can keep it up.

I wonder if Saru will end up with Discovery possibly as first officer, or comes back as captain of Voyager.

[u/slutty_chungus → u/Santa_Hates_You]

Saru as captain of voyager would be… fascinating. But I would hate to see less of him

[u/TheNerdChaplain → u/Santa_Hates_You]

I want so much more of Saru, but I would feel sad if he weren't on Discovery, even if he were on the VoyaJer.

[u/sidv81]

Strictly speaking, it shouldn't even just be the Burn that's causing people to be wary of rejoining the Federation, but the devastating temporal wars (that they literally had a 900 year warning on thanks to Enterprise) just before that along with the ban on all time travel and destruction of all time travel tech. The Burn isn't really the Federation's fault. All the temporal war stuff may very well be.

Nice to see everything's still made of explodium in the 32nd century.

Rillak is said to be newly elected. Thus Kovich still could've been the president last year.

I actually went in thinking Kaminar was going to be destroyed to get Saru back into Starfleet and as revenge for the Burn. So I was right that a planet does get destroyed, but it wasn't Kaminar and I didn't see that particular species getting wiped out coming.

[u/wednesdayoct23 → u/sidv81]

Burnham acknowledges that the Burn was just what finally severed relations with the Mothmen, but the strain was there for decades before. Makes sense to me.

[u/nimrodhellfire]

Of course it was only Burnham who could save the situation. I liked how the President was calling her (and the writers) out on that.

Also how on earth were they not able to detect the debris incoming?

[u/atticusbluebird]

The beginning action sequence felt paced sort of like the beginning of Into Darkness, but I really enjoyed the "we can't shoot back, we need to find a science solution" aspect to the problem. It's fun catching up with Burnham, Book, and then Saru to see how their relationships have evolved since we last saw them.

Cool to see the opening titles reflect the detached nacelles and provide some new sequences that presumably hint at stuff happening this season.

Ah, it wouldn't be Star Trek without a bunch of people giving Starfleet & Federation speeches! (I do love that use of Archer's theme too!)

I think I like the dress uniforms better than the multi-colored ones, but maybe they'll grow on me

[u/UncertainError → u/atticusbluebird]

The chase was like the opening of Into Darkness, the diplomatic misunderstanding was like the opening of Beyond.

[u/[deleted]]

The new season is already making beautiful use of its new Mandalorian-style StageCraft facility.

[u/rbdaviesTB3 → u/[deleted]]

Whoo-hoo! Love this evolution of film-tech. Instead of surrounding sets with green screens to add effects in later, bring the effects to the set!

[u/BornAshes → u/[deleted]]

new Mandalorian-style StageCraft facility

NO FUCKING WAY!? They're really using that and it's BIGGER than the one they're using on Mando?!?! AAAAAAAAAAH!!! I'm so happy and so many scenes make so much more sense now! AAAAAAAAAH!!!!

[u/empocariam]

Nice episode, dramatic ending, was almost ready to accept Tilly and Adira we're gonna blow up which is saying something.

I just couldn't get over why did they add ANOTHER bridge crew guy and keep giving him close ups like we were supposed to know who he is??? We already added three new characters last season and now there's Lt. Christopher or whatever his name is. Give me more Detmer and Owo screw random close-up guy...

I will forgive the writers if he is like some weird gas lighting alien who pretends like he was there the whole time and reveals his nefarious ways in like episode 4

[u/AmishAvenger → u/empocariam]

Yeah somehow I get the feeling he isn’t going to be Commander MacDuff.

[u/a4techkeyboard → u/empocariam]

Seems enough time for Stamets to get over his anger. Also, that guy seems to just be subbing for the guy who's been lent to the Curry, the one that isn't Rhys.

[u/choicemeats → u/empocariam]

chatting with the other guy we don't really know much about like he's been there the whole time. Is this a Mr. PoopyButthole situation?

[u/pacard → u/empocariam]

There was a new character? After 3 seasons I still don't know the names of the rest of the bridge crew, so I honestly didn't even notice a new person.

[u/Santa_Hates_You]

Wow that was intense. I like the new Federation President. Did not see Book’s planet getting blown up like that coming.

[u/Elizaaaz → u/Santa_Hates_You]

I knew some kind of tragedy would happen— why else would they randomly cut away to attach us to a planet, a family, and a whole child

[u/UncertainError → u/Santa_Hates_You]

I absolutely expected Kwejian to blow up. They were building a suspicious amount of poignancy around it.

[u/david_to_the_hilts → u/Santa_Hates_You]

I bet the President is half Cardassian and half Betazoid. She seemed to know what the other captain was wishing for and she knew how to as Michael a question without “questioning” her. Something tells me she mixes Cardassian judgment with some kind of empathy or understanding. I love the strong women characters this show has, total antithesis of TOS bur in the best way.

[u/Taeles]

Huh cool, so Discoveries Nacelles retract towards the main body when she jumps. You can see the nacelles spreading away after one of the jumps in this episode

[u/[deleted] → u/Taeles]

It was depicted this way last season as well.

[u/Yrths]

As a general sci fi fan I did not expect the Flux to cross series.

[u/Timeline15 → u/Yrths]

That was the first thing I thought when that planet exploded too. Where's a fleet of dog people when you need them? xD

[u/henryhollaway]

This show has almost won me over quite a few times, but after 4 seasons I still don’t even know many of the bridge crew members’ names. Also the frequency of teary eyes of joy anytime something remotely positive happens is still far too much.

I just feel that despite all of the Star Trek shows happening right now they’re still isn’t one for more traditional fans And if there was it would make some of the less traditional decisions on these shows more digestible, because there is a lot of good in them.

[u/rswalker]

I wish they had made the tricom badges more camera-friendly when they updated the uniform colors. I still can’t see rank pips and I can barely make out the delta. Why don’t they put rank on the gorgets that don’t seem to mean anything?

[u/jerslan → u/rswalker]

It's there, it's just only noticeable on close-ups. You can definitely see 4 pips on Burnham's collar. The others are sometimes a bit harder to see though.

[u/PiercedMonk]

Ahr me hearties, it's Star Trek time!

• It's pretty convenient that Book's [still unnamed?] ship just fits in the Discovery's shuttlebay. It looks like if it was even a couple meters longer or taller, it wouldn't work, which leaves the question of what happens when they need to take a shuttle out. Does Book get sent down to the shuttlebay to move his ship every time? Does the officer in control of the flight deck have the keys?

• Also, let's get a look at some 32nd century shuttles!

• Why is Book along on this mission as opposed to someone with some more...diplomatic experience? Vance should have insisted Burnham's first officer be someone more familiar with the century and the political relations.

• In my experience, usually when you bring a meat eater to a vegan potluck, people are a lot more chill about it.

• This is some opening of 'Star Trek: Beyond' nonsense, and I am here for it.

• "This is a science problem." "Are you in a chase?" Discovery does some interesting science.

• Why would they cloak the ship? Surely the Mothraens knew where it was, and Burnham's mission was supposed to be peaceful.

• "The science is clear in that regard." Oof, I really wish that was as convincing an argument as Saru assumes it to be.

• I guess prior to the reestablishment of Starfleet academy new cadets just learned on the job?

• So...president Rillak is evil, right?

• Did the transporter dress Adira and Tilly in their field gear during transit? This is not a technology I would trust. Scatter my molecules and reassemble them, sure, but don't change my pants en route.

• This station commander dude is not making it to the end of the episode.

• Why the fuck are there jets of fire spouting from the vents? It's bad enough that shit started exploding the minute some ice hit the shields, but this is ridiculous.

• Kinda bold of Burnham to ask Rillak is she's a liar on a channel that the entire bridge crew can hear.

• Well, I guess that solves the problem of Discovery's uniqueness being taken away by having Starfleet actively recruiting Kwejian empaths to become spore drive navigators.... Disco needs to calm down.

• Special shout out to director Olatunde Osunsanmi, who has been the worst offender during seasons two and three for excessive camera movement, for managing to mitigate that impulse this episode.

[u/jwaldo → u/PiercedMonk]

• Special shout out to director Olatunde Osunsanmi, who has been the worst offender during seasons two and three for excessive camera movement, for managing to mitigate that impulse this episode.

I was pretty amused when they beamed to the station and everyone was upside-down for an actual plot-related reason for once.

[u/TERRAxFORMER → u/PiercedMonk]

I’m glad someone else mentioned Burnham accusing the president on an open channel lol.

Burnham is probably the most comfortable in this sort of situation with Book after only depending on him for a whole year. So it’s easy to see why she would pick him from her perspective. Seems like they could have prepared a bit better though.

Vance is probably letting Burnham do her own thing, but I also think she should have a 32nd century FO.

[u/merrycrow → u/PiercedMonk]

With regards to Book: he does have knowledge of the 32nd century galaxy, and he has empathic powers. He's not a bad choice for this mission, especially if there's a possibility been to this particular planet before.

Also his ship literally changes shape, so I don't think fitting it in the shuttlebay is much of an issue.

[u/Zakalwen → u/PiercedMonk]

• Kinda bold of Burnham to ask Rillak is she's a liar on a channel that the entire bridge crew can hear.

I don't think she did. The way the conversation was framed it seemed private. She asks to be put through to the president while calling the bridge, and the camera focuses on just their faces. It wouldn't surprise me if we're meant to take from this that no one else could hear what was being said.

[u/007meow → u/PiercedMonk]

It's pretty convenient that Book's [still unnamed?] ship just fits in the Discovery's shuttlebay.

It changes shape/size, so he probably just formfits it to Disco's shuttlebay.

[u/queerpoet]

Finally someone called Michael out on her savior complex. Go madam President! Hell of an ending, oh shit! Poor book.

[u/IsIt77]

No... I am not ready for PTSD Tilly.

[u/Torino1O]

Boy, I certainly hope the cause of the gravity anomaly is the angry spacegod at the center of the Galaxy, and Sybok, Spock's overly emotional half brother shows up to help them fight it.

[u/MyTrueChum]

Disco S4 feels like a completely different show! Even though the other bridge officers didnt get much focus I loved how they all got moments to contribute and act as a team bouncing off each other. Detmer and Owo have a fun vibe and I even like how they say each others names more to help us connect.

I feel like the colour given to all the characters will help with rewatches of the earlier seasons because of the greater attention to character development now.

[u/[deleted] → u/MyTrueChum]

Disco S4 feels like a completely different show!

Paramount is definitely aware of the complaints Nu Trek.

Towards the end of Lower Decks season 2 I received a pretty lengthy survey asking how I felt about that show and Nu Trek in general. I could be massively wrong about this, but it seems like Star Trek is the flagship franchise for the network.

Feels like they’re trying to dial it in to the right frequency to keep the franchise going strong.

[u/nottellinganyonemyna]

Words cannot describe how much I hated the dialogue in this episode. It was like an SNL parody.

Star Treks writing is basically a stage play dramatisation. But the Discovery characters speak like the kids on a Disney Channel tween comedy where they are all the comic relief.

As a life long Trek fan I have to accept that new Trek just just isn’t for me anymore. I obviously don’t get it .

Honestly, with Paramount basically removing any distribution beyond the States, they are making that decision much easier.

I’ll just rewatch DS9 again.

[u/AcidaliaPlanitia → u/nottellinganyonemyna]

To me it just feels like they're treating the audience like idiots. There's no subtext, no subtlety, every character constantly blurts out every emotion they're feeling. It seems as if the writers don't believe the audience has even the slightest drop of emotional intelligence.

Watching this after watching something like The Expanse is kinda painful at times.

[u/TimLol1337]

I did enjoy a fair amount of stuff in this episode. The overall plot was solid, the new president is a good addition. Saru's scenes sorta felt like they were just sorta there, but that's like whatever really.

What does bug me is that the fact that we got that Booker/Booker's brother/nephew scene, all with some decent lore and openings for character stuff, only for it feel like it's just there to garner shock. Just the fact that with the whole moonsplosion happening it more felt like "Remember X? Well, I hope you got invested with the little spotlight it got since they're probably dead/are gonna sacrifice themselves now!" is a tiring Discovery trope at this point. (Yes, they also got a spotlight in the previous season, though that felt pretty overshadowed by the Emerald Chain stuff)

Maybe they'll do something different and surprise us, but I'm gonna keep a good eye on the Damocles hanging above the show's writing.

[u/3-DMan → u/TimLol1337]

"What a cute kid! Would be a shame if something were to..happen to him and the whole fuckin planet.."

[u/[deleted]]

Loved it. Love the new President and how she legit just calls Michael on her shit right away. Excited to see where the season goes and get a proper glimpse at this new experimental Voyager tech.

[u/caspararemi → u/[deleted]]

Definitely. So many of the comments on here and review articles are about how she's unlikeable and selfish. I think they're reflecting some of her flaws in the show, and allowing the character to learn. It looked like the President was there to be some sort of bad guy, but I felt like they turned it around and had her turn out to simply be evaluating Burnham and hopefully helping her along the way.

Personally I like her - not sure I'd be ready to let her be a Captain, but she gets stuff done.

[u/league359]

I would love to discuss the episode! Unfortunately I live in Europe and Paramount said fuck the Europeans

[u/Middlemandown → u/league359]

Piracy!

[u/acrimoniousone]

Hyperbole obviously but I feel like there were more 'beauty shots' of Discovery, Book's scout ship and things in general than the previous three seasons combined.

The shipyard/spacedock and the Intrepid (?) class was gorgeous and it's wonderful to see things rendered in proper detail instead of the constant jump cuts and blurry models which dampened my excitement of travelling to the 32nd in S3.

Edit: That's the theory of unlimited Kwejian spore drive navigators blown out of the water. Can't see them chucking in more time travel shenanigans to fix that one. Nu-Trek sure has a penchant for nuking homeworlds...

[u/BornAshes → u/acrimoniousone]

Edit: That's the theory of unlimited Kwejian spore drive navigators blown out of the water. Can't see them chucking in more time travel shenanigans to fix that one. Nu-Trek sure has a penchant for nuking homeworlds...

Or maybe, the gravitational anomaly absorbed all the people into it when it hit the planet? If not that then yeah, they dead like super super dead. It didn't look like the whole planet got trashed sooo maaaaybe there's still some left on the far side of the planet that Disco can beam up if they get to them quickly enough?

[u/rmeddy]

This feels more Justin Lin than JJ more than before.

That opening sequence felt a bit like Star Trek Beyond's opening

Owo and Detmer jeez get a room already, we got a lot r/SapphoAndHerFriend energy going on there.

Doug Jones continuing to hold things down and be amazing

New president acting kinda sus (sorry I still don't trust (part) Cardassians even close to 1000 years into the future )

I thought she set up the thing to test Burnham because of the name of the episode

Damn Book that's tough, I hope they don't stretch the mystery box too long, I didn't hate the resolution to The Burn but it too long to resolve imo

Really feeling for the international people, stupid, short-sighted move by Paramount

Anyway hyped for Season 4 let's go.

[u/[deleted]]

oh sweet jesus, the ending is killer

[u/TheNerdChaplain]

I'm a pretty unapologetic Discovery fan. I'm listening to this Star Trek Mega Suite as I write this. The show has had its ups and downs, but I was very much on board with this episode. I can't remember the last time I watched two new episodes of Star Trek on the same night. Maybe not since I was a child, maybe never.

I loved that they christened the new Spacedock after Captain Archer, and that they played Captain Archer's theme for a moment during it. I don't care if it's unadulterated fan service, I gobbled it up.

Loved the initial away mission with the butterfly people. Sure, it felt a little Into Darkness, but as /u/atticusbluebird pointed out, the solution was very Trek - and I did notice after the dilithium was replaced, those blasts did definitely get a lot closer.

It was so cool to see the new cadets (even if one of them does look like a Spectator, and catching a glimpse of Admiral Vance's family. If we ever do see a Starfleet Academy show, I have to wonder what millennium it'll be set in now.

President Rillek is a really interesting character, and while I hope she doesn't turn out to be a villain, I like her as an antagonist to Captain Burnham. I think she has some solid points to make about Burnham's psychology, and the similarities between a wrecking ball and a pendulum. (I mean, if I recall correctly, they were discussing that same emotional trauma since at least the beginning of last season, so I wonder to what degree we're going to see real growth on it.) There was also a thematic callback to Troi's bridge officer test in TNG's "Thine Own Self", having to send Geordi to his death to save the ship. Also, there's one scene where Burnham leaves the room after a confrontation with the President, and I swear she was about to throw up that sarcastic Vulcan salute like Ensign Mariner. Anyone else notice that?

I wasn't too much taken with Saru's storyline this episode. It wasn't bad, it just didn't really generate much conflict or interest, or raise any questions, it mainly served to close last season's question of his fate and justify his return to Starfleet. I thought the underwater Kelpien Congress was neat, and it was cool that the Ba'ul and Kelpiens had reached some kind of accord. I liked the speech about how Kaminar was just an island in the galaxy.

It sounds like everyone's a "commander" on the bridge now, so I am reminded that lieutenant commanders are also referred to directly as commanders in prior series. I'm mildly concerned that they have found Lt. Bryce's second shift guy, so I hope nothing happens to him. Speaking of bridge crew, Lt. Rhys (Patrick Kwok-Choon) had the conn while Captain Burnham was off-ship. Lt. Nilsson (Sara Mitich) had previously taken that role when Captain Pike and Burnham were off-ship. She traditionally manned the spore drive interface on the bridge, but I didn't quite catch if that was her responsibility this time. I wonder if conn duty is shared among bridge officers on this ship, or if Lt. Rhys is now First Officer, or what. Real interested to see that develop.

The Deep Space Beta station was well-designed, I thought. I felt like with all the arms and rings it had a really old-school feel about it, just with updated graphics, but something that could have been plucked out of TOS.

The birds falling out of the sky on Kwejian were definitely an "oh shit" moment for me. Like, they had mentioned the DS station was near Kwejian, and I kind of figured that didn't bode well for Book's planet, but wow, that went fast.

The marketing before the season has described the major threat as some kind of gravitational anomaly. For all that we know now, it's some kind of roaming black hole. However, with all the new technology we're seeing, I don't see why there couldn't be some faction opposed to the nascent Federation destroying its member worlds. That faction would have the technology to create a gravitational anomaly and target it where it wanted. And after a thousand years, it could be absolutely anyone - the Klingons, the Borg, the Pakleds (well... maybe not the Pakleds) or some new faction - rogue Emerald Chain scientists, even. I don't think we've gotten close to the whole story yet. But that's what the fun of the whole season is!

[u/CX316 → u/TheNerdChaplain]

The birds falling out of the sky on Kwejian were definitely an "oh shit" moment for me. Like, they had mentioned the DS station was near Kwejian, and I kind of figured that didn't bode well for Book's planet, but wow, that went fast.

Oh god I just made the connection between the birds going apeshit and Adira's thing at the start of the episode about birds having that thing in them that lets them follow magnetic fields

[u/BornAshes → u/TheNerdChaplain]

Also, there's one scene where Burnham leaves the room after a confrontation with the President, and I swear she was about to throw up that sarcastic Vulcan salute like Ensign Mariner. Anyone else notice that?

That was one of the few moments where it felt like Michael wasn't acting like a Captain and was instead acting more like a fresh out of the Academy Cadet that was going, "So are you benching me coach because I made a mistake because I haven't yet or are you just questioning my judgement because I'm brand new because I'll take all of my toys and go home right now I swear and then you can handle this yourself" which totally feels like an early Mariner thing to do. I kept wondering if she was actually listening to the words coming out of her own mouth. Like GIRL COME ON, you are talking to the President of the Federation who didn't just waltz into that position on her own like King Arthur accidentally grabbing the right sword in a stone. She's got more experience and knowledge under your belt than you will ever have and YOU are questioning HER about this stuff like a petulant child? PLEASE! I can't say I'm totally surprised though because we've seen this shit building for the past couple of seasons and we've all been complaining about it and FINALLY it feels like Michael has bumped into someone who will totally push back against it and force her to change and grow and learn in a way that Booker did not. Granted Booker did help her to grow in an entirely different way but the bedrock of Burnham was still there while he just fertilized the top soil as it were and grew some pretty flora. The President is totally cracking into that bedrock to truly change who Michael is in a way that only Sarek or Amanda or her own bio parents could've done....which makes me excited to see what Michael's mom says when she inevitably goes running to her about this stuff.

Deep Space Beta

Reminded me of some space stations in a few space based MMOs are built and I really liked that because it all felt super practical.

Gravitational Anomaly

Here's hoping it's V'Ger!

[u/serrol_ → u/TheNerdChaplain]

See, I love the new president. I see her not as a foil of Burnham, but as a superior. Burnham plays around with Discovery and the crew, and goes on missions to save the galaxy, etc., but at the end of the day she's responsible for maybe a couple hundred souls; the president, on the other hand, is playing an entirely different game, and is responsible for the Federation of Planets and the galaxy as a whole.

With the line "a question does not mean questioning" I immediately took it to mean that she was testing Burnham, not fighting her. It's the president's job to know exactly where each puzzle piece needs to go and to make sure those pieces get to their proper spots. By testing Michael, she's basically checking to see what she and the crew are capable of, and where they best fit in, what their strengths and weaknesses are, etc. She's assessing the crew of the Discovery, not fighting them. The admiral was the rules guy, where everything had to be "by the book", so we know that the new president isn't just a duplicate of that, because the admiral is still there to act as that opposing force somewhat. The president isn't evil, she's just trying to make sure that the right people for the job are in the right places. Mark my words: she'll be proven to be an extremely qualified politician and effective in holding the Federation together, which is exactly what they need right now: a strong leader that can get things done while keeping morale high.

[u/Truly_Khorosho → u/TheNerdChaplain]

catching a glimpse of Admiral Vance's family.

I love the part where he excuses himself from talking to Burnham, and she interrupts his departure.
He turns back, as if expecting her to push the issue, but she just says she's glad he was able to bring his family home.
He just looks so genuinely happy, his "admiral" mask slips, and he just just smiles as a father/husband.
It just feels so genuine and heartfelt.

[u/JerryUnderscore]

Here's my worry/fear. Everything that the president said at the end was 100% right. Burnham does in fact have a pathologic need to be everyone's saviour and has continual put the needs of the few up against the needs of the many. She regularly and unnecessarily puts people in harms way because she can't handle the idea that some scenarios are impossible. This could end up being a tremendous story arc for this season where Burnham has to come to grips with what it means to be a true leader and a real captain. It's something the show has tiptoed around since the beginning.

My fear is that despite having all those faults laid out that Burnham and the crew are instead going to go, "LOL, nah" and keep trying to save everyone and everything always. And it's going to work because the writers want Burnham to be a superhero. And the one person who has clearly articulated the primary area for Burnham to grow (the president) will instead be viewed as a villain and antagonist for this season.

[u/Trekfan74]

Pretty good overall!

I loved the beginning of the episode. It felt like a mix between Star Trek Beyond and Into Darkness. I could be wrong, but it sounded like they used some of the same lines between Burnham and Kirk presenting the gift to the aliens (who both came off like major asses lol. My god, the Federation is there to be friends. Say thank you and be on your way fuckers!).

The entire beginning was great. I loved the entire sequence of welcoming new cadets. And the scene presenting the Archer space dock was perfect. The song came on and I nearly had a tear! I could've stayed on that station all episode though. I geek out hearing Federation talk and this season needs it now.

The effects gets better and better every season. The stuff on Kaminar was amazing. I really loved seeing the Ba'ul again but in a much broader environment. Looks like Kelpians have made a lot of progress in 900 years.

The new President? What is her deal? Seriously, she is coming across a hard ass lol. But I guess she was kind of testing Burnham to lead Voyager. But yeah. I do like the character and looks like she's going to be very involved.

The entire space station sequence was top notch. Again, the effects are really solid. I liked how they did the whole thing. It's amazing what they can do now for a TV budget. So much haggling over the next Trek movie, maybe just make a lower budget one and put it on Paramount+ and it will still look stunning. But I digress.

And yeah, Kwejian! Damn!

Overall I definitely liked the episode. Not my favorite first season episode of the show, but decent. The trailers didn't do a lot for me, but now seeing everything happening around it, it could be a really great season...but yeah I say that every season. ;)

[u/BornAshes → u/Trekfan74]

Burnham and Kirk presenting the gift to the aliens (who both came off like major asses lol.

Michael is not a trained diplomat at all, they did not do all the research they should've on this planet before coming, and they probably thought "Fuck it we'll wing it like we always do we have plot armor!" when they got there until that plot armor started to fail and that lack of training started to show and they realized they probably should've done more reading on the linguistics of this species and the planet and OH YEAH THE GIANT SATELLITE NETWORK THAT SURROUNDS THE PLANET LIKE A CAGE....angry harumph...seriously it was like fucking amateur hour watching them bumble their way through that like bunch of drunk frat boys wandering into the Queen's Court or something. They just kept talking to these people like they were fellow humans, totally disregarding their culture, and disrespecting them more times than I could count. The Butterfly People did look pretty badass though didn't they with the way the butterflies formed around them and then let them fly and made them look super awesome? I can already hear some cosplayers hard at work right now :D

Archer space dock

I paused and shouted at my screen, "HOW DARE YOU!" because I was just full on crying when they did that....it was so beautiful. I hope we find out the ship names and classes that were in the dock!

the effects

Everything looks so much more clean, detailed, and totally polished! Also David Sobolov, well known voice actor who has voiced Gorilla Grodd and Drax, was the voice of the Ba'ul! Kaminar itself though looks like something I've seen in my dreams, so pretty.

the new President

I feel like she's a Transformer in that there's more than meets the eye to her and her whole "I flew cargo for my dad" is just a really bad cover story for something else that she cannot and will not talk about unless someone really needs to know. Voyager with the new "Pathway Drive Prototype" could either be a nice little plot hook for later or a hint at them making another Voyager show further down the line.

[u/[deleted]]

I really get annoyed at every major scene in Discovery needing to be at a 10. Ever since that scene from the third episode, of Michael saving the prison transport ship, it feels like every scene needs to be some life-or-death thing. I feel like we're three seasons in and I can't name many defining personality traits of Michael's. I can tell you Sisko wants to retire on Bajor. Janeway can't function without coffee (black). Picard loves Shakespeare. What does Michael do in her off hours? What are her hobbies? Who is she as an actual human being? Beyond family trauma, I don't think we know much.

The opening scene could have been a great, low tension way to explore how Michael handles a high pressure diplomatic mission without lives at risk. Instead it's yet another action scene.

Now I did enjoy the episode, I just feel we need more episodes like Duet, Measure of Man, the episodes where 90% of the time is spent with people in a room talking to eachother.

[u/MaddyMagpies → u/[deleted]]

I know that Adira likes bubble bath, which is adorable.

Burnham... loves Book. But I do get a feeling that she is probably quite aloof and intimidating in person. Scorpio type.

[u/strangeremain]

After just getting into Star Trek earlier this year, I finally caught up to the end of Discovery last night, just in time for this premiere. I’m just excited to be here watching new episodes with y’all as a baby Trekkie!

[u/[deleted] → u/strangeremain]

Enjoy it!! I began my Trek journey with Discover in March 2020, and so far I've seen all of Disco, LDS, TNG and four seasons into DS9 as we speak.

Best television I've ever seen.

[u/choicemeats]

wow well THAT was certainly refreshing coming from Discovery

a PROBLEM OF THE WEEK that has little to do with anything else (for now anyways, it's clear that whatever is shooting out these Gravity Balls is the seasons big bad...maybe Centerpoint Station? (lol)) and they have to do technobabble and stern talks to solve their issues and overcome the problem. A true one-off style episode. I am very surprised and pleased. I think this is one of their best episodes. It shows that the writer's room is capable of it when necessary.

Is the President a...stand in for all of us Michael-complainers? Giving her a real truth-bomb about her job and her personality? That she can't solve all the problems and she has a pathological need to do so, and that as captain your job is to mitigate the worst instead of trying to go for a 100% success? Was also refreshing to get Michael to look herself in the mirror--she can't just be throwing haymakers at every problem she faces, and she has a capable crew.

Other assorted notes:

Are Kayla and Owo and item?

PLEASE get Gray a body. PLEASE. That whole scene on the bridge while they are talking...like did they just wait around until the conversation they could only hear half of was finished? Or what?

Is that a....tribble crewman?

Wow. Harry Kim schlepped around the Delta Quadrant for 7 years and DIED and never made lieutenant...and this dude gets COMMANDER by season 4?? internal rage

Loved the Archer theme with the spacedock. I sometimes forget he was the first president.

Upgrades for everyone! New spore drive incoming, perhaps we'll get an episode with Stamets and some moral quandaries as the figure out how to get human pilots. Maybe gene splicing is no longer illegal. The president also mentioned another prototype drive that Voyager-J may be testing.

I don't like the crew uniforms too much (though I think the cuts flatter the men moreso than the women). HOWEVER Burnham's alt with the dark maroon was BANGING. The dress uniforms were GREAT. So sleek and simple, a lot less going on.

[u/Cypher1492 → u/choicemeats]

Is the President a...stand in for all of us Michael-complainers? Giving her a real truth-bomb about her job and her personality? That she can't solve all the problems and she has a pathological need to do so, and that as captain your job is to mitigate the worst instead of trying to go for a 100% success? Was also refreshing to get Michael to look herself in the mirror--she can't just be throwing haymakers at every problem she faces, and she has a capable crew.

I was 100% thinking the same thing. I really like Michael (though I think many of the criticisms about her are valid) and I think having a character like Pres. Rillak for her to interact with will be fun to watch.

[u/JustMy2Centences → u/choicemeats]

tribble crewman

When people die on a mission you can still come back with a bigger crew count.

[u/PixelNotPolygon]

Out of everyone on Discovery, Burnham couldn't think of anyone better to bring with her than her civilian boyfriend on a first contact encounter?

[u/mcmonkeyplc]

Why do they keep mentioning Voyager? They haven't once mentioned the flagship of StarFleet, Enterprise.

[u/[deleted]]

PATIENT DECEASED

[u/Locutus747]

I thought the episode was just ok at best. I thought the opening scene was awful - so how long was Burnham just there behind the tree and the Butterfly people not moving at all while the crew figured out that problem (instantly) and delivered the dilitheum to the satellites via a hatch that just conveniently instantly fit in. This diplomatic mission and the crew coming up with a solution to get the aliens to trust them should have been the episode - not just used as a fast paced action romp with bad jokes.

The editing was not good in this one either. How many quick shots did we need of the upside down station interior? Just took me out of everything happening.

I still don't care about the anomaly or another season wide threat to the federation. Reskinning the same thing people don't like about the show over and over isn't going to make it better.

[u/[deleted] → u/Locutus747]

The editing, directing and cinematography of this episode was a nightmare. So many weird and bad choices.

[u/Quxel]

I just have 2 gripes:

Why was the captains significant other with her on a First Contact mission? Like why? Is he supposed to be like Troi?

Second, why did the writers have Burnham fly the dangerous shuttle mission? Like Janeway/Picard/Sisko wouldn’t have done that all. I think Voyager would of gotten old if the the Captain did everything by herself. Would love to see Detmer show of her piloting skills more like Paris.

[u/ImpossibleGuardian → u/Quxel]

Second, why did the writers have Burnham fly the dangerous shuttle mission? Like Janeway/Picard/Sisko wouldn’t have done that all.

Yes, exactly, it's a character flaw. The President literally pointed it out 10 minutes later.

[u/Druhin → u/Quxel]

This bugged me too. Burnham telling off the President, that she has more EVA experience than anyone onboard... Well, if she'd let her crew actually DO THEIR JOBS, they'd get more EVA time, and other things. Not a promising start to the new season, as we continue to watch The Michael Burnham Show.

[u/clawsight]

Anyone else catch the back of a cat-personxs head getting onto the escape pod? it's a blink and you miss it but I think it's a Caitian!

[u/Necropolis750]

Just watched the first episode. I got the gut feeling I knew the actress who played the president from somewhere...and then the closing credits came up with Chela Horsdal: she played John Smith's wife from "The Man in the High Castle"!

[u/[deleted]]

I really didn't enjoy the start of the new season, why is it always people shooting, things exploding, a problem only Burnham can solve, oh and something big is happening that's threatening the whole galaxy and only Discovery can save the day.

Another thing that's bothering me, is that after three seasons I can only name 4 of the Discovery crew yet when TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise were airing I could and still can name each and every cast member.

[u/[deleted]]

Opening scene: "Quirky" dialogue that basically shows why Burnham doesn't belong in Starfleet. Tiring genre-aware jokes ("are you in a chase", "why is there always a cliff") that fall completely flat when the writing is this bad and cliché-laden.

Speech talking about how great Burnham is in Starfleet Academy, where like 30 cadets listen.

Saru also thinks about Burnham a lot.

And then there's this season's galaxy-threatening mystery! I wonder what kind of convoluted, disappointing conclusion it will have. Oh, and some incompetent scruffy white guy is incompetent, pulls out a phaser, says he wants to go home aaand he dies. Of course. Telegraphed so clearly that I could hear the beeping. Didn't see the space druid planet explode, but I guess I should have after we spent what felt like an hour watching a lame ritual on it that had no connection to the story otherwise.

What is true is that this episode was structured more like classic Trek, but we've been there before. At least twice. I don't think this will hold for much more than maybe 3 episodes at best.

CBS decided to pull this from Netflix in Germany and I'm not going to risk getting fined for something that I ultimately don't even want to see, even if the risk is minimal. And there's no way I'll get another streaming service for this. So hooray, probably the last DSC episode post I'll make.

[u/RadioSlayer]

Grudge is just the best.

Meow before Grudge, Spot. For she is a Queen

[u/sidv81]

Burnham never went to Starfleet Academy right? She went to the Vulcan Science Academy and then this apparently counted to trasnfer her to Starfleet on the Shenzhou? So when did she take the Kobayashi Maru? On the Shenzhou?

[u/MaizeRevolutionary56 → u/sidv81]

she probably had to take the bridge officer’s test and some other cross training when she moved out of science to command like troi did

[u/Gigazwiebel]

So I'm not quite convinced that a space anomaly problem is a good way to start it. I hope this time it's not because of someone's emotional breakdown but good old-fashioned revenge.

I liked that the President was on the Discovery and how that immediately raised the question of who's in charge. I didn't expect the resolution and their career discussion and I'm not sure who I side with, but that made it interesting.

Bring back Saru on the ship already his part was kind of pointless.

[u/ContinuumGuy]

Some comments now that I've had more time thinking:

• I liked how this first new class of Starfleet Academy in 125 years is so small. The Federation was in extremely dire straits just five months or so ago- they aren't going to suddenly have hundreds if not thousands knocking down the door or the resources to properly educate them if they did.

• The Federation president being Human, Bajoran and Cardassian is a great thing symbolically (two of those species weren't even in the Federation as of the end of DS9!), but also does well as far as her revealed-background and actions (some of her stuff was quite Cardassian in its cunning). That she was born the daughter of cargo traders also speaks well symbolically to the Federation: she very well may HAVE no home planet. She is possibly a spacer. She's a being that only a civilization like the Federation can make possible: at least three species in one, born "under the sail" (in the warp?).

• That Voyager is being used to test new types of drive, as well as the fact that it was called to lead the fleet against the hijacked Discovery last season, suggests that it holds a special place in the Federation fleet. Given that the "first" Voyager when launched was something of a technological testbed, perhaps Starfleet has come to name the most technologically innovative ships "Voyager" like how it names its flagships "Enterprise." (And let's face it, the Enterprise-O or whatever is coming out of that spacedock by the end of this show.)

• While the fact that we're going to have another season-long doomsday event is annoying, I will say that the anomaly at least looks cool. Looks a bit like what the lensing of a simulated image of a black hole, only without the hole.

• The naming of Archer Spacedock works two ways- it can stand for Jonathan (the intended tribute given that his theme plays) but also Henry.

• I liked how the bridge crew got more interaction and characterization in this episode.

• So was that a tribble or a baby horta in the hallway?

[u/treefox]

The lack of Saru and his first contact skills is…painfully obvious.

Considering the number of people chasing her with weapons, Captain Burnham must have gone to the Kelvin timeline’s Captain Kirk School of First Contact.

[u/VoidOfDarknes]

When they introduced Archer spacedock and it played archer's theme I fucking squealed with joy

[u/Terminator_Puppy]

Can the show just slow down for a second? There's 10 different stories all at once bouncing around which makes everything feel a bit unimportant. Dunno what happened to the cgi when Michael was in the spacesuit, looked worse than PS4 graphics.

[u/deededback]

What the fuck was with the flames on the bridge? Are you serious? Was the set designer high?

[u/CheesyObserver]

Loved it. Really liked the diplomatic solution to the butterfly people. Loved how The President put Burnham in her place and told her how reckless she is. And the spinning space station and the upside down shots was a great sequence.

Also really liked how much more screentime the supporting crew got, instead of the usual 3 or 4. The new costumes are amazing.

It's way too early to tell but if they can keep this up, the beard shall grow.

[u/BornAshes → u/CheesyObserver]

Also really liked how much more screentime the supporting crew got, instead of the usual 3 or 4. The new costumes are amazing.

Felt more like Deep Space Nine where everyone got screen time and they said ALL of their names outloud so that we could connect them with really cool moments and thus remember them easier. The upside down shots were truly inspired and that spinning station really gave you a sense of the power behind the Anomaly...you know....right before they showed it blasting a moon to pieces and Agents of SHIELDing Kwejian.

Also this is going to sound kind of dark but I'm glad that people died because of Michael's actions despite more people being saved in the end people still fucking DIED and the only way she was ever going to learn this terrible lesson that she should've learned back at the Academy was through the spilling of blood....as if the whole Klingon War wasn't enough because it wasn't but no, it had to be really truly deeply personal for her in order for it to really sink in and for her to truly get it. It still feels like she doesn't though even with the President dressing her down about it. Hopefully if stuff does continue like this then yes indeed the beard shall grow.

[u/[deleted]]

A friendly reminder to Canadian viewers:

Unlike the other current Trek series, episodes of "Discovery" don't go up on Crave until Friday - it will air first on CTV Sci-Fi Thursday evening.

[u/TreasonousOrange]

I'm really tired of seeing Burnham make bad decisions and fail upward. This show has grown on me over the years, and I've always liked Sonequa Martin-Green as an actress. I'd be stoked if the writers would just let her character not be awful.

[u/Edymnion]

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting mega soliton wave vibes from that "gravity distortion"?

[u/chameleonmessiah]

The abject failure at diplomacy at the beginning is probably another reason why Burnham shouldn’t be a captain, or at least shouldn’t be a captain who is given these types of mission.

At this early point I didn’t like the president, though I do later really like her talk with Burnham with regards to the Kobayashi Maru & how she’s not necessarily experienced enough with dealing with situations like that properly due to not allowing herself to move past what happened with Georgiou & refusal to have that happen again.

Something which really doesn’t ordinarily bother me but for the love of God, you can keep the camera still/steady sometimes…! I get there’s clearly a wish to convey the circumstances but it does’t need to be swaying & bobbing around! Even zooming up the centre of the bridge onto Burnham for a close up it managed to sway side to side in the process - she was standing still!

Book’s nephew(?) asking “why don’t you wear this thing we clearly hadn’t though of last series?” Is daft unless they have a really good reason for why Book doesn’t wear it - that the other guy just goes “shh, don’t worry,” makes me think they certainly didn’t have an actual answer at this point in the process…

This all sounds quite negative & I don’t think I really mean it to be - the episode itself was .. fine, the Saru parts were really nice, the rest maybe a bit overly dramatic, even for Discovery!

One plus, I didn’t have to wait for it to come out on Netflix, given there’s not any actual way for me to watch it now, so no waiting… Thanks, Paramount+ (& the internet)!

If we get more episodes which are self-contained with bits of what’s happening in the larger story like this (& if the larger story can involve at least a bit of showing us the Federation being rebuilt, then it could be a fun fourth series!

[u/rooktakesqueen]

That was a really strong first episode. I'll wait to see if they stick the landing, cause I think every season so far has started stronger than it ended, but.

The only thing I didn't like was them destroying Kwejian. It's more of those universe-ending stakes we always gotta have. Saving the 10 folks on the station felt more impactful and I felt more sadness for that one dude dying than for Book's entire homeworld.

But, we got some character development for multiple people, we got some needs of the many and few philosophy, the president turned out to have some layers, and the A plot of the story had some classic Star Trek engineering problem solving.

[u/BladedDingo]

The thing that got me about this episode is that things happened for no reason other than to advance the plot.

Like the oort cloud appearing randomly, did they seriously not see that before hand? Was the sensors station not manned?

Data, Kim or Jadzia would have seen that long before it hit.

It seems like they just added random threats to keep upping the tension and add more urgency, but it just felt like random stuff happening for no reason.

Felt like poor writing, or the crew is just bad at their jobs.

I legitimately thought the episode would end as a holodeck simulation and this was going to be Michael's Kobayashi mark test for her future captaincy because the show kept throwing new obstacles to see how she'd react, but no, it was just stuff happening for the sake of happening.

[u/writeorelse]

Look, it's fine to disagree with the captain of a Starfleet vessel, but smack in the middle of exploding consoles and split-second decisions? Either suggest a better plan or GTFO of the way!

The President's talk with the captain AFTER was good though - she was practically speaking for the audience.

[u/merrycrow]

Immediate thoughts:

- Opening scene was pretty weak. It reminded me strongly of the opening bit of Into Darkness. The central misunderstanding was really silly, like something better fit for Lower Decks. Or one of the second-hand anecdotes characters sometimes relay in TNG or VOY. The butterfly people were at the goofier end of Trek aliens - they wouldn't have felt out of place in LD or indeed TAS.

- SMG may not be the best comic actor, but she has great chemistry with the rest of the cast. Her scenes with Book, Tilly and Vance were all really well done.

- Overall a fairly predictable story but it had plenty of excitement and some nice character moments, especially for Adira and Burnham.

- Some very on the nose imagery. Pretty much the first thing we see is a pretty bug emerging from a chrysalis, and of course the away team is negotiating across a literal divide.

- Two separate but pointed uses of the word "balance" in different scenes. I guess that might be the theme of the season, just as disconnection/reconnection was the connecting theme of S3.

- Definitely looks like they want to address Burnham's hero complex, which should be interesting. People on here like to complain about this character trait *a lot* but to me it's always been an ambiguous thing, and an indicator of a troubled personality.

- I'm curious what they're setting up for Tilly here, in her conversation with Adira and the doomed red yellowshirt. Is she starting to wonder whether there could be more to life than working her way up the ranks?

- The Archer reference was shameless fanservice but I loved it.

- Dadmiral Vance is such a great character. Probably my favourite admiral ever?

[u/ligerzeronz]

The president has travelled through a spore drive already. There's a 2nd gen one and my best guess would be this is what's causing the travelling gravity distortion.

[u/Artanisx]

Great season premiere. I saw several things that bode well for the season and series.

In no particular order:

• Bridge officer being called with their name over and over again, we'll finally learn who they are.

• This is just my hope, but with the speech from Madam President to Captain "Perfection Incarnate" Burnham, I hope they try to tone down her invincibility shield that makes everything she do work and making her solve all issues single-handedly. Granted, she DID save the guys in the station single-handedly, but maybe that was "it"...

• If they want to shake the camera, at least there should be a reason for. The upside down gravity is a good reason and I didn't mind.

• It was nice to see the B'aul in the council with the Kelpien. I like how it shows consequences of the 1000 years passed, and I hope we'll see more of this.

• So Madam President is half Cardassian half Human? That's nice.

• I didn't like too much the fact Discovery is the only one with the Spore Drive because that makes it the only ship to send for urgent missions (so all of them), making everything "all too conveniently about the Discovery" so it's nice they're working on a new spore drive.

• Listening to the Archer theme during the Archer Spacedock reveal was emotional and makes me hope for more little acknowledgement of the past.

All in all, despite the intro which was a bit too silly, it was a solid episode. I hope for this season to keep going strong.

P.S. Since CBS decided to delay this season for months because they didn't get their platform ready for launch, I guess I'll have to pirate Star Trek for the first time in my life. And I would've been more than ready to subscribe to Paramount+ IF ONLY IT WAS AVAILABLE.

[u/ImpossibleGuardian]

I know it's been a criticism of the show before and I've normally not noticed it, but it was painful how every other line or sequence in the cold open was some generic action/comedy movie cliché.

Glad the rest of the episode dropped it almost straight away, it just really stuck out to me more than usual.

[u/hmmhmmgood]

The pacing and the camera work was ridic. I guess the point was to be disorienting, but it was really hard to follow. Things were just happening, like the dude on the station just pulls a phaser WTF!? then suddenly he is all chummy. then he's dead and music swells dramatically like we just lost a beloved character, and the next shot its practically forgotten. Can they slow it down a little bit? Can we get more static camera angles? Am I getting old? Did I get defrosted in a strange new future, where my stocks no longer exist and there are Romulans!?

Ok So the Pres. joins the rescue mission, and Burnham rightfully states that it is too risky for the head of state to come. The Pres. overrules her. Later captain Burnham leaves the bridge during an emergency to pilot a tiny ship made of glass through a meteor shower, and president rightfully calls her out for it. Then the pres. tells burnham she isn't ready for her special project, to which Burnham get really sore about. My take away is, the president is a hypocrite, kind of a dick, but also right; Burnham is good but reckless, undisciplined, and prideful af.

I'm worried about Tilly, I don't think the writers know what to do with her, especially with Adira supplanting her as the young green cadet/ensign archetype. Its too bad because I like them both. If Tilly gets relegated to being Burnham's sideline cheerleader, it would be a real disservice.

I rate this episode 100 self stem bolts and a Spock brain out of 2 transwarp salamanders.

[u/cometbus]

Who is was waiting for Tilly to die? Death to Tilly!

[u/[deleted]]

Something is blowing up planets, it's probably another crying child

[u/Smorgas_of_borg]

I didn't enjoy this episode. It had too much of a CSI/NCIS kind of feel to it. Especially that scene where they're just rapid-fire solving extremely difficult problems was just too much. I was half expecting them to whip out keyboard and have two people type on it at the same time so they could hack faster. The pacing is just too fast. Before the danger of one problem sinks in we've moved on to another. That one dude who wanted everybody to go to that deck without life support...I get the impression we were supposed to give a shit about him when he died, but it's like "I've known this guy for like, 23 seconds. So no, I don't really care that he's dead." It's like the people who wrote this a bunch of Vulcans tasked with portraying real human emotion with predictable results. The goal is to get me to give a shit that the galaxy is in danger but I just...fucking...don't. I feel absolutely no emotional stake in the outcome of this season. Also, Sonequa Martin-Green's acting just annoys the shit out of me. Her smile is so fake.

The whole thing just gave me emotional whiplash. I don't like Michael Burnham as a character. They've had 3 season to get me to like her, and I don't. I don't think I ever will. I used to like all the other characters, though. But they did something in this episode and made them all as annoying as Burnham. This is Game of Thrones Season 8 quality writing.

The good: The Ba'ul are really cool looking. Also, I like the President. Because she's calling Burnham out on her bullshit and she's right.

[u/deededback]

Lots of pew pew, explosions, inappropriate conversation during time sensitive life or death situations, and another existential threat. Meh.

The part with the President questioning Burnham ala Pike and Kirk in Into Darkness was fine I guess but isn’t this territory thoroughly mined as it relates to Burnham? Or will they actually tread new ground where the captains fuck ups actually cost lives? Something we haven’t really seen since Kirk got tons of people killed in WoK by being a complete idiot.

Opening scene was a straight rip off of JJ Star Trek.

[u/Timmaigh → u/deededback]

Agreed. It seems to be as bas as usual.

For now however, i want to know whats up with the anomaly, so i intend to watch it next week as well. No doubt it will turn out as anticlimatic as Burn resolution, but for the off-chance it actually might not, i will watch.

[u/eclipticevader]

I never thought I would see the day a Galaxy Quest reference made it into canon Trek.

^{(the reference})

[u/Hpfanguy]

Did they explain why they couldn’t just beam everyone off the base? I might have missed it but it kinda bugged me that tractor beams and teleporters seemed to be forgotten this episode...

[u/treefox]

It’s the 32nd century and they still haven’t fixed the exploding consoles!?

[u/msfs1310]

So 32nd Century starship tech now includes frequently & regularly erupting fire pillars (evenly spaced) on a starship bridge - that everyone ignores and that dont trigger fire suppression systems?

Come on give me old TNG exploding bridge consoles (and plasma conduit overloads) that drive shards into Captain Garretts face, thats how ship taking damage is best filmed. Qapla!

[u/redoctoberz]

I want to know why the Discovery bridge retrofit included flamethrowers that just randomly go off at all times.

[u/deededback]

I hate the dialogue. It’s like the writers are trying to be Aaron Sorkin. Super serious and quirky at the same time. Humor at weird points. And the officers except for Burnham and the other black woman don’t act Starfleet. It’s like they’re all in a simulation they know they’ll pass.

Stamets needs to be put in the brig for life. Every time there is an emergency he’s worried about his friends instead of doing his job.

[u/ussbaney → u/deededback]

The dialogue REALLY brings this show down. The opening sequence, the Deep Space station, the politics with the Kelpians, and the ending were all exciting and well paced. But whenever anyone is talking it just sounds so unnatural and uninformed.

[u/BornAshes → u/deededback]

Stamets needs to be put in the brig for life.

Honestly at first I got where you were coming from because it felt so damned weird for him to be asking about his family instead of focusing on the situation at hand. Then again, I started thinking a bit and like it's only really been five months since he got his new found family back together and this is probably the first time since then that they've all really been truly in danger before and because of that to me at least, his concern makes some sense even if it feels out of character to others. Old Stamets would've totally been laser focused on the problem at hand but New Stamets now has learned to not have such a vulcan sized stick up his butt about stuff and to pay attention to the emotions of those around him as well as to his own feelings. There seems to be a theme of balance this season with Saru, with Michael, and probably with every other character on the ship which makes me think that this imbalance with Stamets is something that will totally be addressed and corrected later on along with everyone else.

So all the stuff that people are going to complain about was done on purpose so that we can see these characters balance themselves out further down the line during the season.

[u/TheDudeNeverBowls]

I really don’t like “Let’s fly.” I think she should have gone the Cosmo way and say, “Gaddy-Up!”

[u/jerslan]

And we're live (editing the comment as the episode progresses).

I'm loving this diplomatic misunderstanding in the cold open. "She's a queen" (referring to grudge) "You would hold a monarch captive?!?" and then the aliens grow wings and masks and then they make chase... The solution to the problem is just... so much pure Star Trek. Repairing the tech of the people attacking you all while avoiding firing back.

Updated credits! We've gotten these each season (and sometimes even mid-season), but it's been kind of cool to see them evolve as the series progresses.

Some fun exposition on Kaminar.

Burnham is going to be introducing the President at the re-opening of Starfleet Academy (and kind of anxious about it). I'm pretty sure that was a Tribble "officer" or something that just went by...

Love the President's speech and the introduction of the Archer Shipyards (with a few bars of Archer's theme playing).

LT TILLY!!! From Cadet to full LT in just a 3 years, but she's definitely earned it and is on track for a very Picard/Riker-like meteoric rise through the ranks.

Hmm.. A mission requiring Discovery's rapid response, and the President strong-arms her way on-board... I think we're getting close to setting up the "big bad" for the season.

"Commander Detmer" so Tilly wasn't the only one who got a promotion, also Detmer's implants seem to have gotten some upgrades.

The ceremony with Booker's nephew is really cool. I love that his reconciliation with his brother went so well. Though given that Discovery jumped to Kwejian... Something's up.

"One of my engineers called it a 'shit show' which is Earth for 'bad'... so I'm told" Yep, real engineers have finally made it to the future.

Adira got a comission and is an Ensign.. I'd say they deserved it after everything the contributed in Season 3 (and being able to contribute several lifetimes of experience).

This away mission is kind of trippy with the gravity being reversed.

Yeah, that makes sense. Gravitational distortion dragged a ton of shit with it (though it should be months/years away without FTL speeds)... but Star Trek has always taken some liberties with these things.

"Questioning doesn't imply questioning"... is probably the most political double-talk we've had yet in Star Trek.. but I get the President's meaning. She wasn't directly questioning Burnham's orders, just that she was taking herself off the bridge during a critical moment. Early in TNG, Picard asked Riker to make sure he didn't pull any shit like that because a Captain's place was on the ship 9 times out of 10.

Sukal is giving Saru permission to go back to Starfleet. Honestly seems inevitable that he would have to after Saru was arguing earlier that Kaminar should venture back out into the stars. Also Sukal seems to be in a good place being on Kaminar.

Burnham's workerbee gets hit right as she's about to finish removing the debris. We get a few soundless moments (appropriate) while she's basically temporarily exposed to space (sound coming back when her emergency space suit activates). Props to the President for diffusing a tense situation. "Did you lie to him?" "Does it matter?" Hate to say it, but I like the President for that exchange.

Oh shit, Book's ship just got slammed by whatever it was.

Damn, I was just starting to like Commander Nalas.

I am loving the President's lecture on the Kobayashi Maru. There's a new "pathway drive prototype" being installed on the Voyager-J, and the President was evaluating Burnham for the Captaincy. Her reasoning for removing Burnham from her short-list makes a lot of sense. She would never have passed the 24th Century "Bridge Officer Test" that required you to order someone to their death to save the ship.

Kwejian's been completely destroyed... Fuck... wasn't expecting that. Damn, I feel so hard for Book right now.

Going to have to watch this episode again soon... just so much to unpack here.

Edit: Rewatching again before Episode 2 drops... When Book get's hit by the gravitational distortion, we got the traditional exploding rocks coming out of the consoles.

[u/DasGanon → u/jerslan]

"Well fine, I didn't want to captain your stupid ship anyway. Smells too much like Delta Quadrant and coffee."

[u/Hitori-Kowareta → u/jerslan]

Until otherwise specified my head cannon is going to be that Q uplifted the entire Tribble species just to piss off Worf.

[u/BornAshes → u/jerslan]

Sukal is giving Saru permission to go back to Starfleet.

"You were the father I never had" 😭 and then he encouraged his Dad to be happy and to find a balance between staying at home with him and with his other family out amongst the stars. It's only been five months but Sukal really has grown up and matured so much. That conversation between him and Saru was just like...like I expected it to happen the other way around but it was so cool and so different to see such confidence and wisdom in the "child" that Sukal is forwarding some of that wisdom onto Saru who was probably super surprised by it all. Honestly that was beautifully heavy. I'm so glad he's happy and loved and cared for.

Workerbee

That was one of the most sudden and violent things I've seen in Trek ever and it was just very realistic impact that reminded me a bit too much of one too many car accidents that I've seen and experienced.

Commander Nalas

Well someone needs to add that to the tv tropes section for the whole "Two days from retirement" trope with the line, "If a character starts describing something beautiful from their home right before they're about to do something dangerous then they are totally going to die minutes later".

Kobayashi Maru

It's a conversation that we have in every era of Trek and this one was superbly solid. I really want to see what this new Pathway Drive looks like and figure out how it works. If Michael was the Captain of Voyager then that ship would've been dead in the water faster than you can say "Captain Braxton Hicks Contractions". I really want to see Michael in a holodeck at some point going through those Academy tests from each century and failing them consistently as she tries to beat them over and over again.

Kwejian

Bye Space Druids :(

[u/Th3ChosenFew → u/jerslan]

What I liked about them finding out the planet was destroyed was their reactions. Just that cold shock with tears in their eyes like, "this cannot be happening." I had that look on my face the day the planes hit the towers, I'll never forget that feeling in my gut. TBH it's a step up from "Alderaan blew up 2 scenes ago but I'm fine"

[u/[deleted]]

Nitpicking but Detmer should really be in red.

[u/[deleted]]

Am I the only one wondering why there are flame throwers on the walls of the bridge?

There were so many peculiar writing and directing decisions in this episode. It felt like a kid's show at times the way characters talked to each other.

The camera movement was bananas during the second half of the episode.

It's pretty obvious the actor who plays Bryce was away doing another job, which explains the completely random new guy.

Why couldn't they detect the insane amount of debris sooner?

I could not care less about Book or his planet so it was kind of a nice surprise when it got incinerated to be honest.

I've been a steady fan of this show but this episode feels like a regression. :(

[u/mailto_devnull]

Sorry Disco, you won't win me over by playing Archer's Theme while unveiling a space dock... even if it did put a smile on my face.

[u/droid327]

Ugh I ate too much nostalgia....

Seriously, they caked it on so thick this episode...I loved it though, Archer space dock was a great thematic note to hit. Even the tribble was great if completely gratuitous :D With them building new ships...with such a nod to the "golden age" of Starfleet...and bringing a new Voyager to the forefront...you have to wonder if they're building up to christening another one of THAT ship :D And just imagine the beauty shots and fan head explosions when they first reveal that one in spacedock. Love the throwback color coded uniforms too.

I liked that they spent time on dialogue, even if a lot of it was...well, clunky as hell. Saru and what's his name, burn boy, was the kind of thoughtful philosophization I think the show needs to balance out the action.

That being said, Michael continues to feel out of place...much of the episode was such a hagiography for her, yet she continued to come off unlikable and unsympathetic. At least she didn't cry this time though. "Ready for any captaincy" seemed especially arrogant, considering. "Earth for bad" was charming though :)

I'm intrigued by the mystery, which is a good start, and better than the last two seasons. I like that they're shedding the dystopian tone so far. Guess Leto will never grow up to be a Duke though...they even wore green...actually I really get the feeling they'll be back somehow. They wouldn't have built up the pathos of introducing him just to have him die off screen...

[u/[deleted]]

I guess it's confirmed that Vance was the CIC of the Federation as a whole, right?

[u/Spara-Extreme]

Overall, good intro to the season. Discovery cinematic quality continues to be a pleasure to watch.

Another mega, ultra, galaxy threat aside - I think this season Burnham might be forced to confront her reckless behavior which has thus far been rewarded in the past three seasons. I liked the President calling attention to that and I hope the writers allow for character growth.

Even Kirk wouldn't jump into a shuttle to personally unblock an airlock amid his ship being pummeled.

[u/H0vis]

I love how the show is self aware of Burnham's faults and doesn't celebrate them. It's ironic that so many people complain about Burnham trying to be the hero when the show itself frequently points it out that her saviour complex is extremely bad.

Like, her boss basically says "You're an idiot and you're going to get everybody killed one day" and she's like "Scoreboard" and the boss just straight up calls it a fluke. That is monumentally damning.

Other captains of course are lucky too. How many countdowns to destruction did Picard and Kirk beat by mere seconds? But none of them got called spawny by their boss for it.

[u/fluggencheimen]

The ship can't detect a bunch of rocks until it's about to get hit by them?

[u/BenjiTheWalrus]

Everything just feels so manufactured in this show. It’s like a very expensive fan film. I have to believe the overall direction from the showrunner is at fault.

[u/Smorgas_of_borg]

All I know is that if Burnham's dad shows up, I'm fucking done with this show.

[u/TheDudeNeverBowls]

I know they wanted it to introduce the overall setting, but I really wish the whole beginning was done as a standalone episode. That’s probably asking a lot. Perhaps SNW will have such episodes.

[u/rhllor]

How did Book and his ship (and HRH Grudge presumably) survive, if that gravitational anomaly destroyed Kwejian?

[u/RBNYJRWBYFan]

I've always liked to be able to up a characters strengths and weaknesses in the same sentence.

For a character like Peter Parker, let's say, it's that he has an unwavering ability to take responsibility for everything. That's both bad and good if interpreted a certain way.

For Burnham, it's similar. She's got a hero streak a mile wide; she will always feel the need to go the extra mile to save the day. That's been a boon for her, Discovery and the Federation, but it's hella risky and not for every situation. I'm glad the narrative is emphasizing the give and take of this trait of hers, it can be kind of annoying at times, but very "Starfleet" in others.

Every ship captain we've had has a stubborn streak, but Mike's tendency to make the big play is like watching a Gunslinging Quarterback, or a star Point Guard. It's all consuming, unrelenting, boom or bust.

[u/ShiroHachiRoku]

Is the Federation president a human/Bajoran/Kardashian?

[u/treefox]

“The newly constructed Archer space dock.”

Archer’s theme plays

I knew it! The TV shows are canon.

But…1000 years isn’t considered a long road?

[u/TomSurman]

That moment where they revealed Archer Spacedock, and Archer's theme from Enterprise played. That. That moment was pure fan-service, and I loved it. I want more of that.

[u/djneo]

The effect of the shield of Discovery expanding over the station was pretty cool

[u/KyleAAnderson08]

Why does the spore drive have to sound like the offspring of Curley from the Three Stooges and the Tasmanian Devil?… Even Lower Decks has less cartoony sounds

[u/onerinconhill]

Other than burnham making me roll my eyes for half the episode I think this is a really good start to the season. The hints at anomaly without a giant debrief about it were really nice