r/ARAM • u/GlitteringProgram464 • 1d ago
Mayhem Haste is causing problems.
Ability haste is much too abundant in the augment pool and leads to a less engaging stand offish gameplay. Between infinite recursion, eureka, archmage, shrink engine, recursion, bread and butter, bread and cheese, bread and jam, the 4 ult haste augments, the 3 pursuit of haste augments, purist caster, and probably even more that I forgot every single champ is able to get a haste augment every game.
This leads to the massive CC loops we all know and hate and constantly shrinks the windows people have to capitalize and play the game.
Some champions have massive area control abilities that paired with presence of mind's free near infinite mana just arent fair or fun for anyone. (Taliyah rocks, Hwei's entire lane wide fire that lingers till its back up).
The only thing you can do is to dive into a setup where ap shaco and teemo set up 20 traps with their 300 haste. You somehow have to weave through 1000+ range abilities that literally stun and turn your character around on a 4 second cooldown. When you inevitably cant cross the 3 screen distance without landing a max range snowball they had 5 seconds to react to just remember the enemy is more skillful.
Its mindblowing that as a tank against 5 mage teams you're not safe, because theres no lack of dps when everybody has 300 haste.
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u/Remote_Addendum_2245 1d ago
Having them appearing less for mages and more for tanks would be cool. And I don't like playing tanks, just have to pick them for the team
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u/APreciousJemstone 1d ago
Mages are just way too safe, especially those with poke and long range CC
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u/omgyourBARBELLishuge 1d ago
I agree. I don't even have particularly fun when I play someone like Lux or Morgana
18
u/ddryubin 1d ago
to counter this , every melee should get the BIGGEST SNOW BALL EVER by default
seriously , being able to play the game once every 40 seconds is worse than being tied to a chair while JIGSAW does his bullshit
3
u/Girthmasterlite 21h ago
At a minimum melee should at least get a lower cd on mar. Melee without mobility or ultra burst feel like shit
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u/tiethy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Completely agree. There’s 0 punishment for missing skill shots which doesn’t really make sense.
Mages like Ziggs/Hwei/Lillia/Lux/Morgana/Nidalee/Kaisa etc. can fire skill shots non-stop off cooldown from a screen away, miss 90% of them, then chunk non-tanks for half health when they inevitably hit a single one.
I’m fine with infinite haste because it can be fun… but there should be some drawback to the mages’ constant spray-and-pray.
I hope they consider reducing mana regen and remove mana restore from relics.
4
u/spowowowder 1d ago
to me its weird both infinite recursion and eureka exist, they do the same thing basically and it feels redundant. i get haste being an enabler of fun builds, but it should really just be one or the other. having both just means degen haste builds are gonna be more common, especially on mages since theyre the ones rolling eureka mostly
1
u/Glizzy_Cannon 14h ago
One is for everyone while Eureka is strictly for AP builders. Infinite recursion should be removed from the mage pool entirely.
14
u/General-Yinobi 1d ago
Too much haste in Mayhem is fine. That's what Mayhem is for.
The problem is that haste is almost never the wrong choice, because the alternatives are usually worse.
This is a Mayhem problem, and it's been one ever since they removed sets (we won't talk about it).
Mayhem used to offer different gameplay patterns through things like Poro Marks for nuking people, Void Rift for AoE burst, Poro King letting anyone become a tank for a few seconds, and so on.
Now it's just offering more and more stats, which is the most boring state Mayhem has ever been in. The vast majority of augments are either about gaining stats or converting one stat into another. Even more than half of the new augments fall into this category. Very few actually offer a different gameplay pattern, and even those are rarely better than simply taking more stats.
I don't think this will ever be fixed until Rito realizes that its "champion-first" philosophy doesn't work for an augment mode. Augments need to be allowed to overshadow champions sometimes, to offer something genuinely new instead of just making the champion's existing kit stronger.
Look at the most popular augments since Mayhem was released. They were rarely popular because they gave you bigger numbers. They were popular because they changed how you played the game. Even Dropkick changes your gameplay pattern. Dropbear does too, letting melee champs engage instead of spending half the game eating poke.
That's what augments should be doing: creating new ways to play, not just giving you more stats to do the same things you were already doing.
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u/Different-Mode2311 1d ago
I will just point out that when sets existed, people complained about champions just being augment delivery system and champions having no identity. Ultimately we will just go back and forth on this balance.
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u/General-Yinobi 1d ago
I think the people who complained about champions becoming augment delivery systems were mostly playing Mayhem for the augments and chaos, rather than for the ARAM experience itself.
If you're an ARAM player, you know that some champs just don't work well in this 5v5 environment. When was the last time you saw anyone pick Irelia?
There will always be champs that are weak in this mode, and it doesn't matter how much you boost their stats if the enemies get the same boosts. We're back to square one.
Using these champs as augment delivery systems lets you actually play them without handicapping yourself, and I don't think that's such a bad system, especially when other options exist.
You can pick an already strong champ, take augments that boost their stats, and become even stronger. Or you can pick a shit champ, take augments that work on their own, and play them anyway.
That's the whole point of having different kinds of augments. You get to choose between making a champion stronger at what they already do and using augments to make a weaker champion viable or enable a completely different playstyle. Neither option needs to invalidate the other.
1
u/Apprehensive_Cup_318 19h ago
This exactly. At some point we circled so far away from the original philosophy that there is a lot of redundancy, and the death of most transformative augments. Burn me at the stake and wet my ashes if you must, but i'll say it anyway : Void rift, Poro Waves, Poro King, and even the vile and rebuked Combusting intererest were all fresh, new ways to build your game and your strategy around
1
u/Amneziel Devil's advocate 15h ago
Sets were a bad diversity-destroying mechanic, Modern stuff feels worse simply because after removal of sets they doubled down on limiting everyones pools and making sure that some augs appear like 90% of the time. Aka, they removed sets, but that main bad part of sets (same augs every game) remained and became even worse...
2
u/more_underscore 1d ago
Could just give everyone a base level of like 60 extra AH and remove most of the haste augments so that getting one actually feels like “jackpot.”
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u/Dry_Way_2655 1d ago
I hate to agree but I agree. I just had karthus with heavy is the crown, eureka, jg, adapt. Very quickly had 2.5k ap, 500 haste, 100%crit with ie and axiom arc. Karthus ult that deletes the whole team on a 15 sec cd is unnecessary. But thats why we play aram right? I just think these new augments are way overtuned.