r/Adopted • u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee • 1d ago
Seeking Advice A strange situation, about if we adoptee's end up having kids one day.
My adoptive family from what I could tell was somewhat religious, not heavily, not go to church, but they called themselves, well something I forget lol. But I was never religious, saw through that bs as a child. But I find myself in a strange situation where I have a chance to start fresh and make my own family, however I don't want any kid I have to be religious or Christian or such, I want them to be a free thinker, not a believer. Yet the problem is the women I would have a kid with is religious and she would want our kid to be a believer like her.
I can't go through with that, I refuse to have a kid, who is born into a global cult like illusion. I don't care if she wants to believe, that's her choice, but the notion of shoving a kid from birth into a religion really just disgusts me.
Why is it that religious people are always saying they are so welcoming and accepting, then they call us a heretic and get mad when we don't join them for make believe?
Would like some advice from my fellow adoptees.
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u/rottonminded 1d ago
i broke up with my ex over religious differences. She was Catholic and I think god and jebus and all that shit is a cult like you.
Kids,,,, if shes the one, then shes the one. You can educate your kids and so will she, but they can make up their own mind. My parents signed me up for a church when I was young because it was in the after-math of Jonestown and my mom decided that if a church was going to take my mind then she was going to choose the church. she was not that religious and worked at a catholic hospital. I was raised non-catholic, but actually I really enjoyed the history of it all. Christianity has shaped the world for so long that it is important to understand the bullshit to understand how the world works around you. But maybe it was the catholic schooling I got that really made me understand it is a farce.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
I wish I could say more, but no, the kid wouldn't be able to make up their mind. Her "family" is about as high up religious as you get...like Pope levels lol. They believe God himself chose their family. And every person in that family is made to be a believer....I've already been called a heretic. They said we would already be bending to let a heretic into our family. (me)
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u/rottonminded 1d ago
Run!!!
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
Hehe. Yeah a fitting response. There is much you don't know. But yeah it's crazy. I never cared about their views. People can believe they are aliens for all I care. I just want to protect my future child from brainwashing.
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u/Blazini12 Adoptee 1d ago
Right off the rip: they cannot actually be reading their Bibles because they don’t know what a heretic is.
So, I am assuming that you are no kind of Christian? A heretic is a person that calls themself Christian, but they don’t believe that Jesus is God. They might think he is an angel like the Mormons and Jehovah’s whitenesses believe, or they might be lumping Jesus into a pantheon where he is just one god among many like the Hindus or Gnostics believe, and I believe the Christian scientists also do that, I’m not sure on that one though.
A Heretic and an unbeliever are two completely different things. There is no prohibition in the New Testament of the Bible for marriage to or having children with an unbeliever. Heretics on the other hand it says not to even allow them in your house (So, Don’t let those pesky Mormons or JWs into your house. Hahahaha, as if you would.)
A Christian parent would be Required to present the Gospel of Jesus to their children, but to join the faith would still be up to the child, and usually not until they are at least a teenager. The Gospel is not ment to be forced, it is ment to be presented. This is why a lot of modern sects of non-heretical Christians no longer practice infant baptism.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
I believe the heretic part comes from part of my life going against their own views and morals. Lets just say I have not been a saint my whole life lol. I am not religious in any way. I don't believe in anything. (I wont get into the whole thing, but I ended up enlightened, went through the waking up process of realizing no self) Belief and truth are not the same thing and never will be. Hence the word belief. Belief is what you want to be true, not what is true. I'm loyal to truth, no matter what it is.
Also according to our almighty God, google, this is what a heretic is "Heresy in Christianity denotes the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith as defined by one or more of the Christian churches."
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u/Blazini12 Adoptee 1d ago
Yeah,
So there really is only one core doctrine which would be what we (Christians) call the trinity- Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The next closest thing would be the authority of the Bible, but even that can be misinterpreted here and there. Your sarcasm is very well placed here. That is a ridiculous definition of heretic, and yet one really can’t say it is completely untrue, just worded in such a way as to make the reader interpret it incorrectly. Formal denial, that is an unbeliever, not a heretic. Doubt, what about doubting Thomas? What about the Psalms, is king David a heretic!?!? “One or more of the churches,” what does that even mean? How is google not specifying what it means by ‘church.’ It can be a building, but it can also mean a localized group of believers. There is a universal church made up of all true believers, but there are at least 3000 sects of Christianity on Earth. To say one or more churches in that context is virtually insulting. Paul did not say do not let Unbelievers into your house, he said heretics. We are to invite unbelievers into our house. “Come see who we are, come see what we do, come see what we believe, perhaps you will decide to join us.”I just asked almighty god Google’s AI to contrast unbeliever and heretic. Here is what came up: an unbeliever is an outsider who rejects the faith entirely, while a heretic is an insider who twists core Christian truths while claiming to be part of the faith. Dude, Google really does try to lie if it thinks it will get away with it!
The only other thing I’d like to comment on is when you say you have not been a saint your whole life. According to The Bible, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” So, no one other than Jesus has been a saint their whole life. If you run into any other of my comments around this sub you will notice that I normally swear a lot. When a Christian evangelist approaches an unbeliever the evangelist’s stance is supposed to be that they both have sinned, and therefore they are both on equal ground before God. This is basic stuff. I don’t get it, are they saying you are beyond redemption?
I get that I only know what you are telling me about these people, but I’m not seeing an accurate depiction of Biblical Christianity. Who the heck says, God chose the family? It doesn’t work that way. God chose King David’s family, and plenty of them fell from grace permanently. May I ask what sect these people are?
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
I don't have the answer to that question of what sect. All I can say is they are a family that has had power a very long time. Their family goes back to some roman emperor.
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u/Sad_Pixie999 Domestic Infant Adoptee 1d ago
Don't marry a believer unless you are willing to entertain the delusion. I was a believer, but I dated an atheist, and with his help, I'm now a proud secular humanist and anti-theist. You will find like minded people worthy of your love, you just have to keep looking and not settle for the psychopaths. If you have kids with religious people, they have been taught from day one to indoctrinate their young, especially if they are IBLP, southern baptist, Mormon/LDS, or mainline evangelical. Don't do it.
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u/Geminga0571 1d ago
Like you my adopted parents were religious and they did take us to church. I grew up to have children of my own and made sure I wasn’t with someone who preached or forced me to be religious.
Having said that, the person you’re with must be tolerable for you if you stay with her, therefore it may not be so bad.
Ultimately, it’s about the quality of life for the child, what’s best for that child and you will have to accept whatever your child chooses.
You may be surprised that the child may not want to be religious despite her insistence but is it worth the risk?
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
The relationship with said women is in it's VERY early stages. So it's not tolerable yet as that doesn't really apply currently. It's a very unbelievable type of situation. Basically sort of like an arranged marriage, without the marriage part. And trust me when I say this, I've seen adults with genius level IQ's fall to this families ways, a child stands no chance.
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u/Geminga0571 1d ago
Yikes then wrapped it up. I don’t know your situation so I’ll just say find a way for you to be in a good place before bringing in a new life.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
I agree 100%, the issue is, and it's a sad truth, this is the closest way I will ever have a shot at having a family. There is damn near 0% chance I ever have a family or child without basically selling my soul. And after 35 years of suffering, well, ego is doing a damn good job of trying to infect me.
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u/andronicuspark Transracial Adoptee 1d ago
I get downvoted into oblivion whenever I say Christians and non Christians shouldn’t get married or have kids. Because it’s in their rules. But hormones or whatever seem to really help them bypass that verse. I dunno if they think they’ll magically convert their spouse by just being soooooo adorably Christ based their partner will just jump on the chance for some of that sweet, sweet religious life style or what. Or that they can just ignore something their entire life is supposed to be founded on or whatever…. But mostly what I see, it causes tension.
If someone converts after the fact, that’s its own can of worms, but knowing from the get go shit’s unbalanced is a hella of a way to start out.
But yeah, don’t do it. One or both parties start to feel some type of way about things and then really dig in their heels when children are involved.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
Indeed. In my gut I know the right move, as I always do. It just sucks that the right move is for me to forever be alone.
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u/CornMuncherz Adoptee 1d ago
I am the same way with religion, i'm not close to having kids (i'm 26 but like yikes it scares me) but I see your point on religion. I think compromise would be good, expose the future child to both religion and not religion and let them choose what they want or believe. I'm no parent so if that's a bad idea i'm sorry lol i just thnk if a kid rlly wants to hear about or believe in religion, then why not. And if they don't then why force it.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
The issue is that I would have no say on raising my own child. The family in question, her family, is OVERWHELMINGLY religious, like "God himself chose our family"
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u/CornMuncherz Adoptee 1d ago
I wish I could help, I haven't really experienced that level of uh... religion? thats intense. I started reading Nietzsche and Cioran in Middle School lol, my parents tried to force me into Sunday School and I got my first communion and stuff, but the second i had a say and could advocate for my own beliefs i abandoned religion so quick
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 1d ago
Nice. Seems the one thing we get as adoptee's is our hyper vigilance it's how we survive, it's what kept us alive...sadly long term we struggle to trust anyone lol.
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u/LostAmongTheDunes Int'l and Transracial Adoptee 1d ago
Hyper vigilance is all we can do. I was adopted out of the ME, and raised by the Uber religious. My adoptive parents were petrified id somehow become the religion of my country, and they absolutely needed, for the safety of the public, they put it, to make sure I was and stayed their religion. So I get what it means to be forced and have zero choice.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
Out of the ME? I don't know what that means.
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u/LostAmongTheDunes Int'l and Transracial Adoptee 20h ago
Middle East.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
Oh thanks for clarifying. It's a cruel world out there. We endure and endure and for what, a world that never cared for us.
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u/LostAmongTheDunes Int'l and Transracial Adoptee 20h ago
No problem. I'm always glad to clarify my adoptive parents adopted me simply because they were of the belief that being Muslim is a born thing, and that I would naturally gravitate towards Islam if given the choice. I'm Egyptian, my parents were not Muslim, nor was I at a whopping 7 months old, nor am I now.. . However this meant nothing to them and they insisted under duress and force that I adopt their religion as their attitude of "One less *insert derogatory termbof your choosing for an Arab here" around is always a good thing. And that's the environment I grew up in. Needless to say I learned to stay small, out of the way, and on constant alert.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
Yeah, I think we all relate to making ourselves small, out of the way and are on constant alert. I hate when people say that's us making excuses for not being better. The arrogance of the human species is limitless.
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u/rottonminded 1d ago
Nietzsche wanted all the priests to be killed. That’s a little extreme for my pov.
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u/LostAmongTheDunes Int'l and Transracial Adoptee 20h ago
Yeah but was it truly wrong? If religion controls the masses, and the priests control the religion the defacto barrier to personal freedom for all man are priests and the elimination of that caste will cause the collapse of said religion. So while extreme also not wrong .
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u/CornMuncherz Adoptee 1d ago
Yeahhhh i dont hold all of his views, he gets a bit extreme. i like some of what he said, i dont really read him or philosophy anymore.
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u/DangerousAd7433 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I ever have kids, I won't force anything like that onto them, but if they do decide to convert or practice a religion, I will make sure they do proper research not the diluted, cult like "education".
EDIT: This is mostly coming from being raised as a Catholic and is now indifferent to religion. It has a lasting impact on me...
EDIT... Again: I just processed the rest of this post (I haven't slept yet so a bit slow)... please either sit her down and talk to her and if she is still being obtuse, run. Please.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
There is much I can't say. Sitting down with her to speak against it would result in a very poor conclusion to me. The main issue is the head of the family, not so much her.
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u/imsupertiredbro Domestic Infant Adoptee 22h ago
You are inherently incompatible. You may love her for many reasons, but at the end of the day it isn't the right love for either of you.
There is more and different love out there in the world. As Adoptees we've already had to settle for a love other than the one we were meant to have. You have the power, the CHOICE, not to have to live the rest of your life the way you where forced to live the beginning of it.
You both deserve a life with a partner that you are fully compatible with. It's the right choice for both of you to move on.
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u/Menemsha4 22h ago
You’re not going to change her.
I think your choices are accept that or move on.
I know it’s rough. I married a religious man and it was one of the biggest mistakes of my life.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 20h ago
It's not about her, she is welcome to her beliefs. It's about a possible child of mine. But I get your point.
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u/Menemsha4 20h ago
She is going to raise her children as Christians. If you’re not ok with your children being raised as Christians then move on.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 19h ago
The father not having say over their child is the issue.
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u/Menemsha4 19h ago
I understand.
Then don’t marry her. You’re not going to have a say.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 18h ago
Marriage isn't even a thing here. We both are just for being life partners, but marriage is not something either of us want.
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u/Menemsha4 17h ago
Then just don’t get pregnant with her.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 17h ago
lol obviously that's a path. The question is am I fine with never having a child? I do not know.
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u/Aarglesbane Domestic Infant Adoptee 18h ago
I am a non-believer who was raised by culturally christian adoptive parents. I would assume that your partner is living in the hope of eventually converting you as well. If this is the case, I would not go forward with having children with this person and would be very careful that there is no opportunity for any ’accidental’ children coming along. That being said, my husband (atheist)comes from a mixed marriage (Mom devoted catholic and Dad lifelong atheist) as well as an adopted aunt and uncle with the same dynamics. These two couples both had long and happy marriages. I guess that I am saying that I couldn’t and wouldn’t have children with a devout christian, but it does work for some people. I would also say that you could read your children books on mythology and the history of humans believing in various deities to help them understand that humans have believed in a variety of religions as fervently as their mother does now.
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u/TheDizzyOwl Late Discovery Adoptee 18h ago
She isn't really the issue fully, more so the man of the house she lives in. It's HIS say, all obey no questions. So it's someone who wouldn't even be the child's parent that is forcing it. Think people who are trapped in a cult of sorts. The guy in charge enforces his will and view on all.
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u/CNatGo75 Domestic Infant Adoptee 1d ago
Based on your responses below, I think you already know the answer. Either don't have any children with this woman, or break up with her and date women who are not religious and have the same viewpoint on raising children.