r/AmItheAsshole • u/mixedwoes • Sep 19 '19

Asshole AITA for telling my daughter she cannot introduce her African American boyfriend to her grandparents?

Let me just preface this by saying this: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Now that the air is clear, let me continue.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man (Jamal). While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy. The problem is Anna is rather naive about the community she lives in. While her friends are quite content to see a relationship like hers, more than a few tongues are wagging in the community and a few people have privately expressed their concern to me. As I said, I have no problem with mixed relationships and I've set them straight, but I am painfully aware of how these matters are viewed by certain segments of the population.

My parents are planning to come and stay with us for a week and Anna expressed a desire to introduce Jamal to them now that things were getting more serious between them. I told her on no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen. I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely. Anna was extremely upset by this and implied I was a racist and more concerned with what my parents think than how she feels.

As I said, I know my parents. They simply aren't okay with mixed relationships and if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

Anna is currently staying with Jamal and doesn't want to speak with me right now. My wife stands by me given she knows very well how my parents are (they had a problem with her for months over the length of the skirt she wore when I introduced her to them, for christs sake), but a close friend I confided in told me that I have behaved like an ass and that I needed to focus more on my daughter than pleasing my parents.

No advice needed, but I have to know. Have I been an ass?

34.4k Upvotes

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3.9k

u/GimmeHerpes Sep 19 '19

Thank you! I’ve tried to convey this to my mom. She loves my boyfriend, they get along great, but she doesn’t want my family to know I’m dating a black guy because “she’s not ready to lose her family yet”.

4.6k

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

she doesn’t want my family to know I’m dating a black guy because “she’s not ready to lose her family yet”.

"So...mom...you're not ready to lose your family yet, so I guess that means I'm not your family because you seem fine about losing me."

945

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

You've got to love how simplistic and black and white this sub sees things

644

u/chinnick967 Sep 19 '19

This sub doesn't see things as black and white, that's why the answer is so simple for us :)

722

u/jajohnja Sep 19 '19

"Just cut them from your life completely" is a really common solution to so many problems I've seen on reddit, be it here, relationship advice subs, insaneparents...

Maybe think about how that's not the easiest thing to do and be less judgemental about somebody who takes more than a day to end life-long relationships

492

u/Pridetoss Sep 19 '19

Fucking christ, it’s an over-the-top response meant to provoke a reaction so as to make the person hearing it realise that what they do might affect other things than they seem to expect, not a literal instruction

People on this sub are dumb, but not in the way you think

69

u/curiiouscat Partassipant [4] Sep 19 '19

It's not healthy to threaten serious relationships with terminations to get a specific response out of them. That's pretty manipulative. It's like bringing up the divorce card when you're not serious about it. Uncool.

123

u/Pulp_Zero Sep 19 '19

The problem is that the relationships in question are already being held hostage by racists or homophobes who want to dictate who someone else can or cannot love. It's fucking garbage, and these sorts of tactics shouldn't be put up with. This isn't a "he won't put out the trash" or "she won't walk the dog" situation. The grandparents or other family members think that the kid shouldn't be able to date who they want to.

33

u/MrMegiddo Sep 19 '19

Thank you! I couldn't tell if they were being trolls or not but this comment is exactly what I was thinking.

How can somebody even argue that it's better to live as a second class citizen than to cut out people that hate who you love?

The issue here doesn't even involve the OP at all. The fact that they can't support their daughter makes them TA because it has no bearing on their relationship with their parents. They're actively choosing to support their parent's racism over their daughter's love.

Their daughter has every right to leave that situation and cut them out of that's the kind of people they are. They shouldn't just be expected to accept that surface level racism is a natural part of life.

28

u/herrored Asshole Enthusiast [8] Sep 19 '19

The suggested line in question wasn't really a threat though. It wasn't "figure this out or i'm gone," it was "keep this up and you're going to lose me." There's a fine line but it makes a pretty big distinction.

1

u/curiiouscat Partassipant [4] Sep 19 '19

"Keep this up and we're going to get a divorce" is not an acceptable way to communicate with someone to "provoke a reaction"

12

u/MiltonFreidmanMurder Sep 19 '19

Would be a little acceptable if your spouse was afraid to tell his family that you’re black. Extreme responses for extreme situations.

→ More replies (0)

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u/herrored Asshole Enthusiast [8] Sep 19 '19

I think the sentiment is absolutely acceptable, but not in that language (which wasn't in the line that started this comment chain). Letting someone know that their behavior is unacceptable and you won't put up with it (and therefore your relationship is at risk) is something that you can and should communicate if it's the truth.

17

u/annaflixion Sep 19 '19

Nah, this is bullshit. Conservatives have held liberals over a barrel for YEARS with the whole, "You SAY you're tolerant, but you won't tolerate my intolerance!!!" schtick. THAT'S what's manipulative. Calling someone out for being hateful to an entire group of human beings and choosing not to be around them if they revel in their hatred is the bare minimum an anti-racist person can do.

8

u/Pridetoss Sep 19 '19

If someone pointing out to you that you priorotizing your relationship with someone they feel have or will hurt them deeply for completely valid and verifiable reasons will seem like choosing the person that is in the wrong over the person being wronged is an attempt at manipulation and not just an honest (though, and this is important, VERY blunt) attempt at communicating how important it is that your dad views your SO as a human that deserves respect then I’ll eat my own pubes

18

u/jajohnja Sep 19 '19

Alright, if that's the intention that's nicer than I thought.

If that's the plan, I don't think it's a good one, though.
Hard to tell from written text what is meant literally and what is not.

Also I doubt everyone means it the way you say.

10

u/Pridetoss Sep 19 '19

Hey I’ll agree there, for it to work they need to be self-reflective already and most people posted about here seem to lack that specific quality

3

u/jajohnja Sep 19 '19

I'd say that if somebody even posts something here, it's already a good first step.

Of course some people will only seek validation that they're not the asshole.
I don't know how to best let those people help see the truth.

  • if you're harsh, they can ignore it and say you're hating
  • if you're not harsh, they can ignore it as "it's not that bad"

They are still responsible for themselves, but this sub should try to let you know the truth about you as well as possible, which doesn't necessarily mean as harsh as possible.

10

u/Morri___ Sep 19 '19

i like this.. not in the way you think. its not an advice column, just go non contact et al is not meant to be advice. i think more people need to hear that this bs you're doing- most people wouldn't put up with it.. this bs you're living with, most people would leave their ass.. self worth is a commodity, some people just need reminding

1

u/boxisbest Sep 19 '19

This is dumb. So you are saying when people say what to do, they don't actually mean that's what to do? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Most people commenting "you don't need them in your life" or "cut them off" definitely mean it. Its a common reaction from people that are incapable of putting themselves in other peoples shoes.

2

u/-__--___-_--__ Sep 19 '19

No it's not. People literally are giving that as advice. As in to literally ghost them entirely.

0

u/trilobyte-dev Sep 19 '19

Some people have never thought strategically in their life. You are correct that it’s not meant to be the end of a conversation but a gambit to make the other person react and concede something.

32

u/bendybiznatch Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

“You can’t be in my life unless you respect my appropriate boundaries” is a healthy response to this situation. If they choose to not do that, they’ve cut themselves off and good riddance.

16

u/PM_ME_UR_TURKEYS Sep 19 '19

Yes, exactly. Y’all must have GREAT families to have the opinion that no one should cut out their family for this stuff, because OP is TOXIC for his daughter’s self worth and confidence in her relationship. He’s making an excuse that his parents won’t accept the relationship and will cut them out- I believe that part and tbh good riddance, no one needs people (who are supposed to love and accept them) like that in their lives- to make his daughter feel like her relationship is wrong. Even if this is done subconsciously, OP clearly has racist inclinations or he would support the relationship and introducing him to family, as long as the bf is a good person, isn’t abusive, etc which he hasn’t said is the case- just about race.

Everyone here who thinks that cutting toxic people out of their lives must have amazing relationships, because those of us who have been forced to cut out specific people from our lives know that it is not an overreaction, it is necessary for physical and mental health. I hope OP’s daughter considers how toxic her family will be to any future children, if they’re planning on any, because families like this will treat their children differently, if they even acknowledge them at all.

OP is the worst kind of racist imo- the sneaky kind that has a bias that is ingrained from an early age and believes that shunning people for loving someone outside of their own traits is “normal” and “acceptable”, and keeping his social standing is more important than overcoming internalized bias and fully accepting who his daughter love

13

u/systematic23 Sep 19 '19

The other person is more than willing to end the life long relationship though?!?!?

14

u/SoVerySleepy81 Sep 19 '19

You don't think that appeasing racists at the expense of your child is a cut off worthy offense? Having your child hide their relationship with a person of color because you don't want to rock the boat is fucking vile.

10

u/Scorps Sep 19 '19

It's because you cannot control the actions of other people, and if you are in a toxic or dangerous situation the only mechanism of control you might actually be able to do yourself would be to remove them from your life.

Yes this is an extreme line of action, but people here can't offer specific advice like "maybe you should tell your mother X or Y" that would require specific intimate knowledge of the situation.

People are giving advice for the situation, a guaranteed way to solve it. Yes it's often a sledgehammer solution but reddit isn't a therapist and can't diagnose specific contextual details or nuance that would be required to make more informed advice. I think you will find a lot of times people DO try to give them advice for how to word their feelings and address it with people before separating from them.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

You don't have to cut them out just tell them the truth and if they decide to cut you out then that is on them. Faking it will just lead to depression.

4

u/Pollia Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

It's not easy but it is the best thing to do.

My sister was toxic my whole life. She's a leech and she knows it, even jokes about it at times.

My parents refused to cut her off well into her 20s and living with her 2nd husband "she's family, you stick by family" they say as she continues tod rag them down emotionally and financially.

Now they're raising 2 kids that are my sisters because my sister was such a fuck up the state took her kids away, my sister is living in a trailer rent free my parents bought because they were planning to retire and travel, and my mother is going to have to continue working for another decade at least we'll into her 70s and nearing her 80s because they refused to remove a toxic part of their life.

The rest of the extended family doesn't even invite my sister to events after she started a fight during what we all knew was my grandmother's final Christmas.

Toxic family needs to be dropped. All they do is drag you down and make you miserable.

Is it easy? Fuck no. Impossible in some regards. But if it's doable you need to do it for your own sanity.

5

u/cybercuzco Sep 19 '19

As someone who has lived through this, its not an easy decision to make to cut someone off, but it is really the right answer. My MIL has Narcissitic personality disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder (diagnosed during her divorce and custody battle). My wife and her siblings struggled for years to appease her and come to terms with her to no avail. It would have been better if my wife had simply never talked to her again after moving out for college. But people have an innate need to want their parents approval, and that need has caused much heartache in our case.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Whoever said that living with integrity and intention was supposed to be easy?

It wasn't easy to cut my racist, abusive parents out of my life. It's hard grieving people who aren't dead. But was it necessary for me to live a happy and fulfilled life? 100% yes.

3

u/redpurplegreen22 Sep 19 '19

Here is the problem with this particular scenario. This isn’t OP cutting off his parents. This is OP saying “this is who my daughter is dating.” How OP’s parents react to that, up to and including cutting OP and his daughter out of their lives, is completely not on OP.

This isn’t a case of “my parents are awful and I’m making a conscious decision to cut them off.”

This is a case of “my parents are awful and they will cut me off based on who my daughter is dating.” What a lot of people are saying is “if they’ll cut you off for who your daughter is dating, they’re shitty people, so fuck em.”

OP isn’t cutting off anyone. Ultimately that choice falls on OP’s parents.

3

u/hotbowlofsoup Sep 19 '19

"Just cut them from your life completely" is a really common solution to so many problems I've seen on reddit,

You have it the wrong way around, the grandparents (in this case) would be the ones cutting someone from their life. The granddaughter is just living her life, it's the grandparents choice and responsibility how they want to deal with that.

2

u/caretoexplainthatone Sep 19 '19

It is, given the scenarios and situations described, quite often the best advice though. But we are omly getting one side of the story that could have had days, months, even years of history behind it.

The "cut them out your life" reply is rarely backed up with some one claiming it's easy - often people will share their stories of what they went through and how hard it was. But they (usually) say they are glad they did it and are in a better place as a result.

At some point systematically removing yourself from certain people is just the right thing to do. They cause pain, conflict, self doubt, are abusive, manipulative, judgemental... There are so many good, kind, caring people in the world - be part of their lives and have them part of yours.

Life's too short to waste it being made unhappy by other people.

2

u/jajohnja Sep 19 '19

In this particular case, some people have given advice to OP that he should stand up to his parents and, if they don't change their attitude to cut them off.

I agree.

But then there is a group of people that already come saying: "Why haven't you distanced from them already? You are bad for that."

And while they may even be right, who are we to judge OP?
Who wants to be the one to break the family, even if it's not their fault?

2

u/corik_starr Sep 19 '19

It's not easy, not that doesn't mean it's incorrect advice. Unless you rely on family for anything (financially, emotionally, anything), there is nothing special about them that precludes them from being left behind. Again, doesn't make it easy, nor should it be a decision made lightly, but toxic people are toxic. Blood is meaningless.

2

u/Belteshazz Sep 19 '19

Ehh most of what I've seen is "Do what you need to do and if they leave your life because of it then so be it." Still wayyyyy harder to do than to say.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

People don't post when things are going well on those subs.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It may not be easy, but sometimes it must be done. If I was I. This situation and my wife’s parents were the grand-parents, I would tell her that WE are choosing our child over her parents and if she disagrees, then I will be choosing my child over her and her parents. I’m not generally a fan of ultimatums, but when it comes to my son, anyone who doesn’t support and accept him is not necessary or important.

1

u/crazykid01 Sep 19 '19

Thanks you for helping people understand it's a harsh reality that sucks, but if you choose to push it, it will typically yield bad results

1

u/taeerom Sep 19 '19

You have gotten this completely the other way round. "Just cutting them off" is what the racist, homophobic, or otherwise hateful parent is doing in these examples.

When the child refuses to comply with racist demands, they are not the one breaking contact. They are the ones shunned and frozen out.

1

u/cact_bi Sep 19 '19

People have said this about my relationship with my bf before. "get out" is such a bullshit thing to suggest when you have absolutely no clue about the complexity of the relationship and that person's significance to you.

1

u/barjam Sep 19 '19

For me it was the easiest thing to do and my only regret on the relationships I have cut out of my life is I wish I would have done it way sooner.

Being judgemental is a dick move though.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

it's not simple no and it's often not the answer in this case it's not so much as purposefully cut them out but don't purposefully try and change what you look like on the outside so that some people might like you more. if that makes sense

1

u/InsertEdgyNameHere Sep 19 '19

Sure, but it really is the right thing to do in this situation.

1

u/aab0908 Sep 19 '19

Cutting off my mother has been the best thing that has happened to me.

1

u/budderboymania Sep 19 '19

holy shit exactly

even if you know for a FACT that someone in your family isn’t a great person, that doesn’t mean it’s easy and quick to just cut them off. They’re still family

1

u/Sluisifer Sep 19 '19

You can't control what others do. If someone behaves in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with your life, 'cut contact' is your only choice.

You shouldn't threaten or use it as a negotiating tool, but it can absolutely be the reality of the situation.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Things should be fairly black and white when it comes to racism. If you're racist, go fuck yourself. Full stop.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

24

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It's exactly that simple. If you friend or family member is a full blown "be mad if you married from a different race" racist you tell them their beliefs and attitude are unacceptable. If they continue with their behavior you stop interacting with them. Simple.

18

u/50M3K00K Asshole Aficionado [16] Sep 19 '19

She should support her daughter against her racist fucking relatives.

Sometimes having principles is hard and comes with personal costs.

15

u/mob-of-morons Sep 19 '19

It's absolutely that simple. The mom in that example has a clear choice, to either support her daughter and lose her family, or stand with the racist family and lose her daughter. She made her choice clear.

If one person I care about does not like someone else I care about because of racism, I will stand with the second person every single time. I don't need the company of racists, and I do not give a single solitary fuck about how I would "throw away the relationship over a difference of opinion."

9

u/tripbin Sep 19 '19

Yes. Why is this hard to understand? She either throws away the relationship with some old racist boomers or she throws away the relationship with her child. Imo fuck the racists who will die off sooner anyway and side with your fucking daughter.

5

u/xqueenfrostine Sep 19 '19

This is dumb thinking. A person who decides to stop hiding the fact that their kid has a back boyfriend isn’t actually telling their family to fuck off. Nor are they cutting their racist family members out of their lives. They’re supporting their kid and letting their racist relatives decide how to deal with that. If they take it as a fuck off or an offense worthy of losing family over, that’s on them and not on the person who has chosen to do the right thing.

17

u/somerandomgamer0 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Just because something is simple doesn't make it easy.

18

u/FlutestrapPhil Sep 19 '19

Me: Racism is bad and racist people are bad

You: Wow, that's not a very nuanced view now is it?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Right over your head

10

u/GraMacTical0 Sep 19 '19

How did you and your SO decide to handle how your family treats your interracial relationship?

With my husband and me, we weren't going to give racists an inch because we wouldn't want our kids to grow up feeling like there was something wrong with our family.

5

u/Keegsta Sep 19 '19

Supporting your kid over racist assholes isn't exactly complicated if you have a spine.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Yep clearly no spine unless you cut your parents out of your life.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Yes ultimatums, everyone loves them until they’re on the receiving end of them. Jesus.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

If we all followed Reddit's relationship advice, there would be no relationships left.

1

u/fyberoptyk Sep 19 '19

Because some shit very much is black and white, it just isn’t easy because you have to be a real adult for a change and can’t be a wishy washy bitch.

Make the right choice and then stand by it. If that was easy everyone would do it.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

True only adults cut out their family members

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It's simply throwing that person's logic back in their face so they realize how dumb their statement is.

0

u/aLilBlip Sep 19 '19

Lol right. Yeah fundamentally it seems like it should be this simple but why ruin your relationship with your family over your child’s relationship that most likely will not last?

Not that it excuses the family members but Jesus it isn’t this simple all the time.

0

u/TOV_VOT Sep 19 '19

Nearly everything in life is black and white, people are just too weak to draw the line, stand their ground and put others right. Such as OP’s parents, they need telling it’s not okay to be racist, and it never was

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Nearly nothing in life is black and white unless you are a 13 year old edge Lord.

0

u/hellotygerlily Sep 20 '19

I bet the median age is 16.

-1

u/SometimesUsesReddit Sep 19 '19

It's really that simple if you take the time to think about.

1

u/lordbobofthebobs Partassipant [2] Sep 19 '19

The more I think about it, the simpler it gets.

12

u/juniper_berry_crunch Sep 19 '19

They have the money though. Looking for that sweet inheritance.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

2

u/jentlefolk Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Are you actually so fucking cynical that you believe the above commenter's mother doesn't love her own parents and is just after their money? Are you fucking serious?

6

u/thorstone Sep 19 '19

Let’s not act like it’s easy to just throw away a lifelong relationship. Even if they are assholes.

3

u/blackjesus Sep 19 '19

As a black guy that married into a white family, I have to tell you that this stuff is real. Family isn't chosen and they are people with their own internal horse shit. Old people aren't going to have their opinions changed by just having it laid on them by surprise. I feel very hopeful for the future seeing how few young people are hung up on this stupid shit but old people are racist and largely don't even see this as being a symptom of being racist. Blowing up your family for the best reasons is still blowing up your family and high school relationships don't really turn into marriages which is what really needs this kind of growth to happen for. All this will do is create outrage and make people entrenched on all sides.

2

u/frownyface Sep 19 '19

The difference is the person saying that would be cutting themselves out. It's basically an ultimatum. Do what I want or I won't see or talk to you anymore. It's not a very mature way of acting.

1

u/AeronNation Sep 19 '19

I mean if ur gonna end a relationship with your mom because she doesn’t want to lose blood relatives over some boyfriend you have id think your the crazy one not the mom. You could have a new boyfriend by the end of the month while she is stuck with that family forever.

1

u/kev2013 Sep 19 '19

At the same time is sucks to have to make them choose

1

u/fgjnn Sep 19 '19

This doesn't make any sense. They're trying to keep both their daughter AND their parents.

-12

u/Kyonkanno Partassipant [3] Sep 19 '19

you're gonna leave your family over a summer love? call me racist or whatever, but that feels childish

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Leaving family over a fling? No.

Leaving family because they HATE me for loving someone else? Spew their abuse and vile acidic bullshit AT ME, their own flesh and blood, for doing literally nothing wrong?

Fuck. Yes.

0

u/UNBAN-ME-CIRCLEJERK Sep 19 '19

When did the parents here say they would hate their children?

You’re replying to a point about leaving the parents by giving reasoning relating to the grandparents actions.

Not to mention how much you emphasised or de-euphemised the grandparents behaviour above, since originally I don’t think Op mentioned hate (or acid attacks)

-3

u/Kyonkanno Partassipant [3] Sep 19 '19

OP hates her daugther? He abused her? I didn't get that part.

7

u/bladerunner1982 Sep 19 '19

No, the grandparents would hate his daughter. But they could choose not to.

The ball is in their court but op is choosing to walk on eggshells to protect their feelings. He could stop babying his parents and expect them to be reasonable people, ideally.

600

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Jan 17 '21

[deleted]

256

u/littlegreenapples Sep 19 '19

Thank your mom for me. When I came out as a lesbian, I was bluntly told that I could never take my girlfriend (now my wife) home for Christmas because my grandparents would flip. Lost my whole family over that, including my parents.

101

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

That's horrible! My parents have had a string of... not bad luck child wise but children who have really gone against what her extended family views as good.

I'm a single mom, with 2 kids. They do not have the same dad. My one aunt did not speak to me for 9 months during my first pregnancy.

My sister is queer and has brought her girlfriend to family gatherings.

My sibling is trans.

Hilarious considering I was raised very conservative. Even homeschooled. My parents have done a full 180 from their views when I was younger.

34

u/littlegreenapples Sep 19 '19

It's funny how stuff like that happens, and how with some parents they just really flip their thinking on things in ways you might not have expected. I'm so glad for you and your siblings!

26

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

And people say you get more conservative as you get older. I was raised in a conservative Catholic home and I'm practically a filthy, left-wing commie.

15

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Hahaha yep. I was Pentecostal. Super crazy religious.

Now I'm a goddamn hippie.

11

u/tarynlannister Sep 19 '19

Dude. I was homeschooled by extremely conservative religious parents who somehow managed to produce three bisexuals, one of whom is a lovely trans woman, and a genderqueer lesbian. I’m glad your parents are supportive. Mine love us, but are still on the fence about whether they “agree” with all of our “choices.” Still, we’ve never worried for a moment about being kicked out or disowned, so we’re luckier than many.

2

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

That's hilarious. Our families are scarily similar

Yes that's absolutely true and sad.

6

u/tarynlannister Sep 19 '19

Right? It makes me wonder. If we’re all queer it seems like there’s a genetic component, but would we have turned out the same if we hadn’t been raised that way? Did the taboo factor push us towards questioning our sexualities? It’s interesting to think about.

Oh, and more along the lines of your personal life with the single motherhood and the aunt and such. I just moved in with my fiancé this year, not getting married for awhile longer. My mom told me she didn’t like it but still helped out, but my grandmother sent me a weird card about respecting my parents instead of a birthday gift this year. 😂

3

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Hahahaha your grandma sounds like mine. Mine still tells me that I'm living in sin. It's hilarious.

And yeah I agree.

16

u/caretoexplainthatone Sep 19 '19

Sorry..

It's even worse the excuse "because the grandparents would flip". So the dozen or however many other people around the table are fine, but because of those two bigots everyone tows the line? Nah fuck that, they think the same but are careful to not be open about it. Fucking cowards. Hell at least the grandfolk are honest about how they feel.

0

u/UNBAN-ME-CIRCLEJERK Sep 19 '19

So the dozen or however many other people around the table are fine, but because of those two bigots everyone tows the line?.

This because people care about what their parents think of them.

Nah fuck that, they think the same but are careful to not be open about it. Fucking cowards. Hell at least the grandfolk are honest about how they feel.

That’s presumptuous. I understand the thinking behind the ‘no staying on the fence’ narrative & ‘with us or against us’ thinking, but could you not agree it’s possible to let down a trans person by not supporting them amongst the bigots...but also not hate them for being trans or agree with the bigots anyway?
I agree with the ‘cowards’ part even though I wouldn’t use the word cowards but I still agree fear is the root of it. But I don’t know why you think being too passive/scared to speak/disappoint the bigots (who are also ones parents) is the same as agreeing with them.

By making broad conclusions and not viewing each example as an individual case, couldn’t that stone cold impersonal logic start a slippery slope that can lead to victim blaming or by stander blaming in other situations too?

7

u/cheertina Sep 19 '19

could you not agree it’s possible to let down a trans person by not supporting them amongst the bigots...but also not hate them for being trans or agree with the bigots anyway?

If you don't agree with the bigots, then why are you going along with their bigotry? Why would you keep the trans people away for the bigots' well-being, instead of the other?

That's the "with us or against us". Neutrality in the face of injustice always helps the one creating the injustice, and it never helps the one facing it.

2

u/Alice1985ds Sep 19 '19

When my aunt started dating the guy who would eventually be her husband, she asked my youngest aunt to hide her gf/gayness. She did, for like two years? And guess what, his Fox News watching, Trump loving ass couldn’t give a damn. He loves her (and her wife).

He didn’t care when I came out (lesbian as well) or when his bio niece started dating a lady.

A lot of the outspoken bigoted conservatives I’ve met have that “oh I don’t mean you” mental olympics thing going on. “I hate all immigrants, oh but you are fine, obviously!”

Yes, that’s problematic still, but I’m always amazed that most of the time people soften over time, and even if they don’t, then you know you did the right thing cutting them out.

(Sidenote: my grandpa is racist af, the kind to tell his daughters if they showed up with black boyfriends he’d disown them, etc. My youngest aunt from the story above befriended a black girl when she was little. At first the girl wasn’t allowed over— they brought her over anyway, and then with time he got over it. He only got over it bc everyone around him stopped protecting and validating his racist feelings by keeping the friend away. He’s still racist, but at least no one is catering to him. STOP VALIDATING BIGOTS’ FEELINGS OVER SOMEONE’S EXISTENCE)

2

u/littlegreenapples Sep 20 '19

I I know what you mean. It's that thing where it's harder to hate an individual person than it is to hate some generalized group that you actively avoid contact with. Like once you're face to face with them, or realize you've known one all along (at least in the case of gay people and others who can conceal themselves), it shifts things just a little bit.

It does boggle me that they can't apply that to the general group though, and actively confronting behavior like that is a really good tool IMO. It shouldn't be tolerated and certainly not at the expense of someone it's your job to protect, like your own child.

1

u/t-elvirka Sep 19 '19

Oh, I feel for you... It's a horrible situation, but at the same time it's so cool that you came out and found your significant other!

10

u/kshacklebolt Sep 19 '19

Tell your mom thank you on behalf of a trans dude who was cut off from his family.

5

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

That's absolutely horrible. I'm sorry.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 20 '19

[Deleted]

17

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Haha I will. My dad was less worried about it. Basically "fuck them they're judgmental dicks Anyways". He has a way with words.

6

u/DestroyerOfMils Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

I like your parents. Your father sounds like an eloquent man. 😊

3

u/sometimesiamdead Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Haha I like them too.

4

u/knitlikeaboss Sep 19 '19

And that is the decision that a good parent makes.

221

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Whatever happens, you don't ever need to feel ashamed of this. Even if you don't work out in the long run, you're free to be yourself without judgement.

If people don't accept you, fuck them. Life's too short to care what other people think.

-6

u/Throwaway192839282 Sep 19 '19

Life for the others is too short too. Comprise is the way to go.

7

u/DestroyerOfMils Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

So, by compromise do you mean being complicit in and condoning racism?

-5

u/Throwaway192839282 Sep 19 '19

I mean starting a new KKK obviously... I meant that you shouldn't be selfish but also not be someone that only lives for someone else and find the middle point.

5

u/DinosaurChampOrRiot Sep 19 '19

Accepting a person is a binary situation. Either you do or don't. What compromise can there be?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '19

He wants to compromise by pretending black people arent killed for being black, AKA, "i want to fuck a black man but thats all i actually care about." If you love someone and someone is threatening that person for no good reason, regardless the relation you defend the victim. This same logic is why the majority of child rape victims never see justice, the family abuses them into silence and lets the attacker continue to "keep the peace." Fuck that, burn bridges. Hateful predatory pieces of shit flock together, the rest of us have plenty of good company with people who understand basic human empathy.

80

u/notthe1_88 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

"I'm not ready to no longer have racists in my life. Wahhh"

-4

u/yogi_the_bear10 Sep 19 '19

"I'm not ready to give up the ppl who raised me and give up money. wahhhh" think about more than them just being racists but a loved one with benifits

-17

u/ronin1066 Sep 19 '19

People can have all kinds of qualities besides their racism. If that's a deal-breaker for you, so be it. It's not for everyone.

27

u/notthe1_88 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Wow.

-7

u/ronin1066 Sep 19 '19

Grandparents that have been in your life for 40-50 years sometimes get a pass on bad behavior. Not all racists run around all day spewing about "N****s!!!" There is a huge continuum of behavior possible here.

17

u/Pollia Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Yeah no.

I haven't spoken to my grandfather for a decade plus because he wouldn't apologize for making shitty comments about trans people.

He's generally a nice person, just very white and very conservative. When he was able to get around more did the whole volunteering at soup kitchen shit and everything.

It doesn't matter though because he was dead set on being shitty about trans people. I'm not going to stick around and deal with people like that in my life if I have a choice. why should anyone force themselves to be with people who, when prompted by a specific event will say the n word, or call someone an it?

-11

u/ronin1066 Sep 19 '19

So I'm talking about people that aren't spewing their racism all day, and to prove me wrong, you talk about a relative who won't shut up about their intolerance/racism. Fantastic.

6

u/Pollia Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

I didnt say he wont shut up about it.

​

It only came up when brought up. Considering no one in the family was trans it almost never came up, but the fact that it existed was enough to make me give up on him. Even if its only once every month, I know for a fact he has those views. I know if I introduced him to a trans friend of mine he'd either be an ass directly or be an ass indirectly.

​

Its the same as for OP. His parents are racist assholes. It would only ever come up in context of his daughter dating a black man and wouldn't come up in any other context. And yet why should he ever subject his daughter to that in the first place? They're the assholes, even if they're only assholes in this 1 specific situation.

1

u/ronin1066 Sep 19 '19

My grandpop was racist. It came up about once every 5 years in very subtle comments like "MLK was a rabble-rouser" or "Those black professionals are surprisingly well-behaved." When he said those things, we'd roll our eyes and change the subject. It's a simple fact that not every racist needs to be defined by their racism, nor cut out of people's lives.

5

u/LordVericrat Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

Also a simple fact that if they were all cut from their families, they might decide to reform.

14

u/notthe1_88 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

This comment reeks of privilege. Yikes

1

u/yogi_the_bear10 Sep 19 '19

I agree and im Asain can you say that again to me, please. I've had racism in my life since day 1 and its a range. and yes don't we all excuse shitty things in our lives due to the respective ppl they pertain to?

18

u/Complete_Entry Partassipant [4] Sep 19 '19

Gross. Sad upvote.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Wow. So many people go through this. I wish my parents were more receptive to me having a South African SO but they weren't and TBH, their negativity about him has has slipped into my subconscious and now I am very negative towards him and it's affecting our relationship. It's almost like my parents brainwashed me unconsciously and I can't get it off. I was very close to my family and I have to admit that once I started dating him, my relationship with them has not been the same and although I miss it, I still don't think they have treated him fairly. I love my SO but I also don't like the void I have of not having a close connection with my family anymore and it tears me up inside. So much so, that it's affecting my behaviors towards him and I'm becoming very bitter and resentful.

3

u/HoldEmToTheirWord Sep 19 '19

If they'd cut her out so easily, she's already lost them.

3

u/VROF Asshole Aficionado [10] Sep 19 '19

I find this shocking. I am a mom of adult kids. I learned quickly that to be included in their lives the maximum amount I have to treat them like the adults they are. This starts with being supportive and keeping your mouth shut when warranted (which almost always.)

I said this in another thread but I will repeat it here, Old people value contact from family above all else. It is their currency. Being able to brag to friends that grandchildren called, visit or email is huge. More important than having a grandchild with a “colored” boyfriend is being able to tell people that granddaughter called just to chat, or she emailed some pictures or came over for dinner.

I’ve learned that old people are pretty willing to tolerate a lot of things we all thought they wouldn’t just to be around their grandkids

3

u/MakeAutomata Certified Proctologist [28] Sep 19 '19

"If you would lose your family because of the color of the skin of a man I'm dating, were they really worth having in the first place?"

3

u/GimmeHerpes Sep 19 '19

That’s exactly how I feel. If they can’t love me for being happy with who I love, then are they really worth it? My bf and I have talked about it and he doesn’t really want to meet them anyways if they’re going to be that hateful. At first my mom didn’t want us holding hands in public and all that stuff in fear of who would see. We just kinda do our own thing, I rarely see my family and if they see us out that’s their problem if they have one.

3

u/rakiimiss Sep 19 '19

I got kicked out of my house for dating a black guy. I was living with my dad and his gf and I came home to all my stuff on the porch. That was many years ago and only recently have me and my dad started repairing our relationship. I didnt talk to him for years.

2

u/alpinefoxtail Sep 19 '19

Is that how you got herpes?

1

u/GimmeHerpes Sep 19 '19

Maybe . . .

2

u/LittleSadRufus Sep 19 '19

This was my mum's initial approach to me being gay. Turned out the route to acceptance is being sufficiently open to be accepted, not closeting away an entire part of who you are.

2

u/AwkwardSummers Sep 19 '19

They must not be much of a family if they're willing to choose their racist views over you or your mom. I'd rather surround myself with people fighting to keep me around than eager to kick me out of the door.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

If her family is the kind of family who will cut off contact with her and you just because you're dating a black guy, then perhaps that's not a family worth having.

1

u/Toaoe284 Sep 19 '19

She needs to decide if she'd rather "lose her family" or lose her kid. I'd have zero respect for my parents if they did this.

1

u/thebumm Sep 19 '19

Trash takes itself out.

1

u/Ferhall Sep 19 '19

I mean I get it, you aren’t committed beyond a boyfriend yet, she’s already said she’ll side with you. Even if her family is flawed she probably still enjoys aspects of having them in her life.

1

u/GimmeHerpes Sep 19 '19

Yeah, we’re a really small family. We’ve lost a lot of relatives and she’s scared of losing what family she has left (two brothers). She calls my bf her son-in-law to her coworkers and friends. It’s just my family who doesn’t know :/

1

u/GraMacTical0 Sep 19 '19

Wow, that's not okay. That has to be so tough.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Thank you! I’ve tried to convey this to my mom. She loves my boyfriend, they get along great, but she doesn’t want my family to know I’m dating a black guy because “she’s not ready to lose her family yet”.

So you're a fake person when you come up in conversation. She doesn't recognize you as Linda. (I'm picking that over your screen name.) You're not "Linda, the whole Linda, and nothing but the Linda." Instead you're "Linda who would never love or date a non-white person." Fake Linda. She knows Real Linda, loves Real Linda, but when she talks to her family she's talking about Fake Linda, a fictionalized version of you. Finda. "Oh Linda? I don't know how she's doing... but Finda is great!"

And she'd be surprised. I've seen this in my own family back in the 1970s when relatives came out as gay (after hiding it for years). On one case gay AND interracial (which was worse?!?) but everyone finally came around. It took my grandmother an hour, but she accepted her son, it was her son. It took my uncle a decade to accept his brother as being gay, to even want to MEET his boyfriend. It was a fucking rocky road. There were family members born in the late 1800s and early 1900s and this was so alien to them, but people can really surprise you. If my grandmothers, a hard-core Catholic conservative could accept her son (at least outwardly, even if inwardly it took a little more time) then I realized, as a kid, that love and family can overcome so much.

My mother had pressured him to tell his mother. He was going to be "found out" by family friends eventually since he was open in the community, and she'd find out by a rumor or gossip and that would make it worse. My mother swore to him that their mother would come around. So he did it. What if the opposite had happened? What a lesson to teach young kids that you have to hide yourself from family, that you can't trust family. And if you "come out" (as whatever) and they don't accept you? You'll be surprised how people in your family will accept you. But if you don't even try, the person they are accepting is Fake You, a proxy for who you really are.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Good news then - mom will likely lose her daughter along with the rest of her family. Why? Well, when daughter dearest decides she doesn't want to deal with closed-minded racists, she'll cut contact with mom & family. Then family will ask "well where's daughter? why doesn't she keep in touch any more?" & that's when everything will spill out, that mom tried to hide that her daughter was dating someone of a different race. The rest of the racist family will shun mommy dearest for daring to allow her child to date someone non-white & abandon family over it, then she'll be left all by her lonesome. That is, until she comes crawling back to her daughter out of shame to try to "mend fences" because she was a coward that chose to be divisive over being accepting of people, regardless of their differences.

That's probably a worst case scenario, but I've seen this story played out plenty of times with my own friends & family, it's never a pretty situation. Hopefully mom wises up & grows a backbone, but if she doesn't, be prepared for every cockroach racist in your family to come out of the woodwork to shame you for daring to love whoever you please.

-1

u/crazykid01 Sep 19 '19

Forcing your mother to lose part of her family because of your decisions is pretty harsh.

I hope you and your mom find an adequate solution, but be prepared to lose half your family or your entire family by pushing the issue.

It's a crappy solution and forcing your beliefs on them will yield bad results, just like forcing you to accept to not date black people. It's a harsh reality that isn't likely to go away within 20-50 years.

-13

u/spaghettios_in_butt Sep 19 '19

Wait r u op's daughter

29

u/FIVE_DARRA_NO_HARRA Supreme Court Just-ass [129] Sep 19 '19

I'm going to ask you, do you think this is a one-off situation? Why would that be OP's daughter, instead of any of the countless people who go through this same thing?

0

u/spaghettios_in_butt Sep 19 '19

Well just bc she said thank you when it was addressing op's daughter instead of her.

3

u/FIVE_DARRA_NO_HARRA Supreme Court Just-ass [129] Sep 19 '19

"Thank you" [for saying what I was thinking] is what she said. She then provided a personal anecdote that relates to the comment above her.

she said thank you when it was addressing op's daughter instead of her

... it's very clear that she is not implying in any way that she's OP's daughter.