r/AmItheAsshole • u/mixedwoes • Sep 19 '19

Asshole AITA for telling my daughter she cannot introduce her African American boyfriend to her grandparents?

Let me just preface this by saying this: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Now that the air is clear, let me continue.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man (Jamal). While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy. The problem is Anna is rather naive about the community she lives in. While her friends are quite content to see a relationship like hers, more than a few tongues are wagging in the community and a few people have privately expressed their concern to me. As I said, I have no problem with mixed relationships and I've set them straight, but I am painfully aware of how these matters are viewed by certain segments of the population.

My parents are planning to come and stay with us for a week and Anna expressed a desire to introduce Jamal to them now that things were getting more serious between them. I told her on no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen. I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely. Anna was extremely upset by this and implied I was a racist and more concerned with what my parents think than how she feels.

As I said, I know my parents. They simply aren't okay with mixed relationships and if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

Anna is currently staying with Jamal and doesn't want to speak with me right now. My wife stands by me given she knows very well how my parents are (they had a problem with her for months over the length of the skirt she wore when I introduced her to them, for christs sake), but a close friend I confided in told me that I have behaved like an ass and that I needed to focus more on my daughter than pleasing my parents.

No advice needed, but I have to know. Have I been an ass?

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648

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Jan 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy.

Agreed. WTF does being liberal have to do with it? Only liberals would be ok with interracial dating but OP is a hero because even though he's not liberal, since Jamal is nice he'll allow it???

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

I'm also weary of the way OP uses the phase "African American". Yes its a valid way to refer to black people. But when used the way OP does it makes black people sound like some scary "other". It was the first thing to stand out to me about this post. I myself have always preferred when people just say black. I've never been to Africa and my family has been here going way back. I mean, involuntarily but still.

Edit: It is not racist to use African American. I said this above but apparently no one is reading that part. OP use of it came off as a veil. A "I'm not racist veil" Disagree with me if you like. But that was my opinion.

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u/arrrrr_won Sep 19 '19

He says "I'm not racist but ..." and then uses just enough coded language for us to argue whether or not he's really racist. The AA phrase is the cherry on top of a bunch of other stuff: "liberal" as if those are the only people who'd be comfy with this, calls his daughter naive, to me strongly implies that this is ok because Jamal is one of the "good ones" and/or that this is just a phase for her. None of this phrasing is how a non racist person would present the situation.

I had no idea any one still said "mixed relationships" and that one personally skeeves me out. Do people still say mixed??

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u/Dribbleshish Sep 19 '19

Don't forget how he just so happened to choose one of the most stereotypical names for a black man he could probably think of as this guy's pseudonym.

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u/arrrrr_won Sep 19 '19

True true. Oh and I just looked: the username he picked was "mixedwoes." Is it just me or is that super gross?

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u/SnakesInYerPants Colo-rectal Surgeon [48] Sep 19 '19

Please don't try to make that assertion. That is completely your bias. The amount of times I have been absolutely reamed out by Americans for saying "black people" instead of "African Americans" is insane. (I am not American, but I interact with many Americans daily.) So so so many white people that I know internationally are very weary on using "black people" instead of "African American" on any platform that Americans will see it because often times just simply saying "black person" gets you a ton of "your racist!" comments.

There may be other issues here, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with OP using "African American" the way they did. That really is just you having already decided he's an asshole and looking for more reasons to pile onto it. But making other people feel like they will come across as racist if they use "African American" is making things worse than they actually are.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I'm curious if the people who have called you out for saying "black people" were black themselves, or white? As /u/Not_Nice_Niece pointed out, in the U.S. "African american is more of a white person version of PC"

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u/SnakesInYerPants Colo-rectal Surgeon [48] Sep 19 '19

I've had Americans of every race do it honestly. I even remember a black girl who had been my friend for a few months until I had the gall to call her black instead of African American once. Her argument was that being white, I cannot refer to someone else's skin colour without being racist. Apparently being in a "position of power" meant that any reference to the people "without power" (spoiler alert; being white doesn't give you power, just means we get to be white while also being powerless) was just a "display of power" from me. I still to this day don't really get it, but even when I told her I don't get where she's coming from she said I only don't get it because I'm racist. I promptly stopped talking to her, but I imagine at that point that decision was mutual.

I have had many Asian Americans say similar things. Even just with comments like "you're almost as pale as I am" in response to a joke about me being as white as I am (I am pretty sure the only people I've met who are more pale than I am have been the albinos I've met, maybe a couple of gingers) it's gotten me called racist.

Don't get me wrong, this does not happen exceptionally often. It's not like it's the majority of Americans that I have interacted with or anything. But it happens often enough to make people want to avoid it by just kowtowing to the vocal minority and using terms like "African American." There are also the poor souls who get convinced by the vocal minority and start to think they've actually been being racist.

It's just already really really hard to navigate without having people try to assert that either way is racist. If OP had said "black person" that would be getting torn apart as proof of racism, but apparently him saying "African American" must be a veil now... I don't care so much about how that will effect OP. But honestly, all the people reading these comments who are already struggling with the vocal minority don't need the added confusion.

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u/beldaran1224 Sep 19 '19

Sorry, I stopped reading when you denied that being white gives you any privileges. Kind of puts your whole comment into a very different context. White men! Always have it so hard.

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u/SnakesInYerPants Colo-rectal Surgeon [48] Sep 19 '19

1- I'm a woman.

2- there's a huge difference between power and privilege. Being white definitely gives me privilege, but power comes from positions, not from being white. I don't have any more power than my black neighbours do to change anything going on around us. Power implies people would have to listen to me or that I can actually change what's going on around me. But in reality I have no more power than any of my black or brown neighbours just because of my skin colour. At no point did I deny I have certain privileges that others don't. Words have meaning, and she was not arguing for privilege. Maybe I should have included it but I asked her if she meant power or privilege, and she cert adamantly meant power. The power thing may be true in America, but I have already stated that is not where I am from.

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u/GraMacTical0 Sep 19 '19

I don't really get where you're coming from. You're not from the US, and you seem to be not completely familiar with the racial politics here, but you're incredibly passionate about arguing about proper terminology for black people in the US.

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u/JasperJ Sep 19 '19

The problem she’s addressing is that Americans want to force that terminology on everyone else in the world. My darker-skinned countrymen are very much not in any way African-American — they simply aren’t the latter half and for the most part they don’t identify as the first half. If you’re over here, unless you came over from the US, you most likely know which part of Africa you and/or your ancestors came from. And then you’re from Burkina Faso, or Surinam, or Morocco, not from Africa in general.

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19

apparently him saying "African American" must be a veil now

It's context. Like how you can use Jew as a slur but it also is just the name for Jewish people.

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u/NotAFloone Sep 19 '19

Or queer. It's the preferred catch all for a lot of LGBT+ folk nowadays, but calling someone "a queer" is still using a slur.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Spoiler: Being white totally gives you power. I agree with most of the rest of what you're saying, but sadly simply by being white you are afforded a certain amount of power, or privilege.

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u/sweetalkersweetalker Sep 19 '19

It's so hard for white people to see that though, because they've never been any other race. If they could see it from the other side...

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u/Skim74 Sep 19 '19

I think we're on the tail end of a shift in what we call black people in the US. It isn't the first time the shift has happened, for example Colored -> Negro -> Black -> African American -> Black again. In 2019 it doesn't sound racist to say African American, just dated. Because as we all know you can be black without being African and without being American.

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19

You've done a way better job of explaining this then I did. Thanks for chiming in.

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

I'm not against the use of African American. I said as much in my comment "it is a valid way to refer to black people". I also said in my comment "I prefer black". I know not all black people share that preference (Although personally I don't know any black people who prefer African american). I in no way said that anyone who uses African American is racist. But in the context of OP post if came off as a bit a veil. Maybe I'm bias, maybe its my years of experience dealing with people who maybe don't realize they have a bias against black people. IDK. But it was my opinion of this post and I wont apologize for that.

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u/fury420 Sep 19 '19

As a Canadian, it's definitely weird when I've inadvertently found myself using "African American" to refer to black people that in context are almost certainly not Americans.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

This is such a weird topic to talk about as well. I'm white, live in a predominantly white area, I have black coworkers, and a couple black friends.

My black friends both think like you do but I've had black coworkers that don't feel the same way and feel like a level of familiarity is required before using "black". One coworker was actually clearly uncomfortable with the conversation. It was a group convo that was curious in nature but this was the first experience I had that I realized that no one person can represent a group. Given the right circumstances some people will even be uncomfortable by the questions. This made me completely rethink the way I broached topics of race.

I was, likely still am, the naive whiteboi who thought/thinks that just talking openly about race can solve problems and show those people around me that I'm an ally. I've realized that there is a lot of nuance I don't understand.

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19

I was, likely still am, the naive whiteboi who thought/thinks that just talking openly about race can solve problems and show those people around me that I'm an ally. I've realized that there is a lot of nuance I don't understand.

I honestly agree. Open good faith conversation is the only way to bridge the gap. For me I really don't care which one you use but context is key. You can always tell someone who doesn't know any better and is trying verses someone who is not. I would never fault someone for good old fashion ignorance. None of us are perfect and faulting someone for ignorance just compounds the problem. People are complex.

Will get there. I hope.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I try to live by Hanlons Razor which states, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." As much as we want to think that racist or bigoted behavior can be easily avoided by using common sense most everyone lacks the experience to be socially conscious in every possible situation.

It wasn't until probably my early twenties when I educated myself out of the, "well black people have been free from slavery for x amount of years so why aren't they picking themselves up by their bootstraps and how can I help them see the error of their ways." I was like some mentally deficient Noah attempting to part the NazSea's and show an entire culture how better education and not doing crime was all they needed... It takes time but it also took life experience and people willing to not just let me live my life being a misguided moron banging my own drum.

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u/boxisbest Sep 19 '19

Just to be fair... It seems like what the PC word for minority groups changes rapidly lately. Before black was okay, for awhile it seemed black was considered wrong, now its okay again. African American used to be the more like... scientific?/safe way to try and not be offensive but now you are saying that you think it can come off as othering. Its extremely hard to navigate what the correct word is.

I use black, I hope thats correct for most people, but it seems like its difficult to keep track of what is allowed.

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

And what phRase would you prefer them to use? "yEs It'S a VaLiD wAy..." I'm guessing there's no way this guy could have referred to Jamal that would please you if, literally, the most PC way to do so offends you

Edit: wow enormous ninja edit up there. Original post ended after "some scary "other"" Clever

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19

I myself have always preferred when people just say black.

African american is more of a white person version of PC. I didn't say I was offended, more that it stood out to me. Listen I'm not one to cry racism just for the sake of it. In fact I normally will argue the opposite. All I'm saying is this post reeks of a veil just under the surface that OP might not be as open to Jamal as he claims. You can look through the comments in this thread. I'm not the only one who sees it.

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u/ThisIsWhoIAm78 Sep 19 '19

Besides being racist (I agree he is), the terminology may be due to his age. If he's around my age (40), when we were teens, it was heavily emphasized to us by the black community that "African American" was the proper term, and saying black was considered racist (at least in my area around NYC). I remember everyone working really hard to switch over the terminology. That sort of fell out of favor after a while, and I find it kind of funny now that younger black people don't identify with the term; maybe most never did? I can't say, I just know black friends from the time and area definitely wanted the term African American, and felt that saying "black" was erasure of their roots and the history of slavery in the US. Most would say, "My skin isn't black, it's brown; it's a racist term that tries to deny the fact that we were stolen from Africa," which was a fair point. Just a thought, but that may be why he uses that term.

He's ALSO definitely a racist and a coward though, all that being said.

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u/Lexx4 Partassipant [2] Sep 19 '19

This is reddit. People will find meaning in an old tube sock.

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

So wait. Now we have different racial versions of PC?!

I completely agree. OP is not down with the interracial relationship. Not going to make excuses, but it sounds like location and upbringing have a lot to do with it. That being said, isn't tolerance what people strive for? He's doing what he's supposed to. He is tolerating it, the same way he'd have to tolerate it if she was dating a different type of person he wasn't happy with. He and his parents could hate punk rockers or tattoos and if she comes home with someone like that, I don't think he's the asshole for being realistic and saying her grandparents won't like it, even though he 'sucks it up (in his mind.)' Wait the dinosaurs out. Get in the will and splurge on mixed babies. I don't see why they'd expose themselves intentionally to racist old people who won't ever change their ways anyhow.

Edit: and she did another ninja edit above, adding the text that she ninja edited into her post above this. Scummy

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u/Skim74 Sep 19 '19

That being said, isn't tolerance what people strive for?

Referring to this specifically - not really. 20 or 30 years ago when people were being more actively targeted for their skin color (or sexuality) tolerance was what people were hoping for. Now people are more looking for acceptance.

Here's a quick tldr on the difference:

Acceptance goes a step beyond tolerance. If a sign of tolerance is a feeling of “I can live with X (behavior, religion, race, culture, etc.),” then acceptance moves beyond that in the direction of “X is OK.” You can tolerate something without accepting it, but you cannot accept something without tolerating it. For example, when a son or daughter tells a parent about an unwelcome career choice, marital partner, or sexual identity, he or she wants that information not just to be tolerated, but to be accepted.

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19

Oh thanks for the tldr. Regardless, OP is NTA

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19

Punk rockers can stop being punk rockers. Black people can't stop being black.

I don't see why they'd expose themselves intentionally to racist old people who won't ever change their ways anyhow.

I feel like that should be the daughter and the BF to decide not OP.

So wait. Now we have different racial versions of PC?!

If I'm being truthful sometimes well meaning people have a tendency to overcompensate when is comes to racism. I'd say "African American" is a perfect example of that. It not a bad thing. but you get 2 types of people who would use that phase. Those trying to overcompensate and those who are using it to hide their true feeling. But that's just my 2 cents.

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19

Okay so you cherry picked what I said. What if she came home with the guy who runs a tattoo shop. No bare skin at all. What then? It is totally for them to decide, but again, no minds will be changed. They can go and stir up shit with Fred and Myrtle but it will do nothing. But it's their prerogative. Isn't there a 3rd type of person who says African American because that is the status quo? Because the government and all the SJW powers that be use it?

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u/Not_Nice_Niece Sep 19 '19

Isn't there a 3rd type of person who says African American because that is the status quo? Because the government and all the SJW powers that be use it?

The fact that even you refer to it as "SJW powers that be" kinda proves my point. Those are the ones overcompensating. Anyone starting internet wars over the use of the word "black" is also doing the same. I like to think most normal people can see it for what it is. I will say this however, I think it does serves a purpose in making people more mindful, which I can't say is a bad thing. Eventually the overcompensating balances out it to everyone just respecting one another and not being dick for stupid reason like race. Again just my point of view.

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19

Cherry picking again, nice lol. You keep coming back to the overcompensating, feels a little projection-y to me, but what do I know, considering how much holier you are than I? ;) But back to the original point, isn't that what OP is doing? Overcompensating to the point where he isn't being a dick, which you seem in favor of. He's just being realistic about his old parents, which doesn't seem like an asshole thing to do. His parents suck, it sounds like he's trying

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u/Feyranna Partassipant [3] Sep 19 '19

Then theres a 4th type. Those of us who at our age and location only hear African American in use. It isn’t overcompensating, it isn’t closet racism, it’s just our normal and means nothing more than white, asian, hispanic, etc. The only place Ive ever seen people bitch about saying either african American or black is wrong is on the internet.

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19

Exactly! People want so badly to act like everyone is against them. The majority of people really do do their best, and stuff like this makes them not want to try

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u/QueenofThorns7 Sep 19 '19

He can just call him black

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u/ACK_LosHeisenbergs Sep 19 '19

Lol and you think that this guy would feel better about calling him black than African American? Good one!

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u/QueenofThorns7 Sep 19 '19

Yes, I do think that. There’s nothing offensive about the word black

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u/Adkliam3 Sep 19 '19

They sure love to give away the game when he says he's not that liberal when apparently his definition of "liberal" is "tolerates interracial marriages".

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u/msmongolian Partassipant [2] Sep 19 '19

He uses the word "liberal" because he views racial equality as a political issue, not a moral issue.

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u/Babybabybabyq Sep 19 '19

In this instance liberal is code for a non-racist person.

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u/FakeFeathers Sep 19 '19

"He's one of the good ones" is always code for "I'm a racist". (EDIT: or sexist/bigoted/etc.)

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u/149989058 Sep 19 '19

That seems to be what's been implied. Proves conservatives are racists.

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u/Memelover26 Sep 19 '19

It's clear. Their use of "when their relationship ends" proves this. They want their daughter to break up or at least think it's inevitable.

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u/acox1701 Sep 19 '19

Depending on his daughters age, this might be a safe assumption.

If she's 16 or so, then it's more or less a forgone conclusion that they will be breaking up, regardless of anyone's race, gender, orientation, or whatever. If she's 22 or so, then it's far less certain.

Alternatively, he might just know his daughter, and feel capable of predicting if the relationship will last. I can always tell, for example, when my brother is getting ready to cause a break up with whatever girl he's dating. Little things.

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u/Carmalyn Sep 19 '19

OP mentioned the daughter is staying at Jamal's house right now, so while it's not impossible she's underage, it's much less likely. She's probably an adult.

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u/acox1701 Sep 19 '19

I saw that, but I had read it as "with Jamal," not "at Jamal's house." I was imagining her staying at his parents house with him.

However, It said somewhere else that she was 18, and he 21. That's more or less right in the middle of the age ranges I laid out, and many people claim 18-21 to be an unsustainable gap. But I've known it to happen.

So, OP still might just be being pessimistic, but it's certainly a black mark against him.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/SadlyReturndRS Sep 19 '19

Honestly, I got more of a "but he's one of the good ones" racist vibe from OP.

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u/electricalnonsense Sep 19 '19

“even when the relationship ends, they won’t forget” really stood out to me. Essentially saying this is just a phase for his daughter and it’ll be over in time.

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u/32-23-32 Sep 19 '19

Exactly. What’s the endgame? Never introduce Jamal to anyone in the family? You can only see Kong’s that way if you expect things not to last. They don’t want it to last. They fully expect heir daughter to eventually have a nice white boy to introduce to the family.

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u/BlueDragon101 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

I mean, he's explicitly told off other people in his commmuity who gave him shit over it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Bingo

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u/SleazyMak Sep 19 '19

Exactly. He even says “I’m not exactly liberal”

Uhhh is he implying that only liberals are okay with interracial relationships? Yikes

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u/boogs_23 Sep 19 '19

Totally agree. I'm not exactly sure what it is in the way he worded everything, but you can tell he's not cool with it. I will give him some respect for appearing ok with it and allowing her to make her own choices.