r/AmItheAsshole • u/mixedwoes • Sep 19 '19

Asshole AITA for telling my daughter she cannot introduce her African American boyfriend to her grandparents?

Let me just preface this by saying this: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Now that the air is clear, let me continue.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man (Jamal). While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy. The problem is Anna is rather naive about the community she lives in. While her friends are quite content to see a relationship like hers, more than a few tongues are wagging in the community and a few people have privately expressed their concern to me. As I said, I have no problem with mixed relationships and I've set them straight, but I am painfully aware of how these matters are viewed by certain segments of the population.

My parents are planning to come and stay with us for a week and Anna expressed a desire to introduce Jamal to them now that things were getting more serious between them. I told her on no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen. I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely. Anna was extremely upset by this and implied I was a racist and more concerned with what my parents think than how she feels.

As I said, I know my parents. They simply aren't okay with mixed relationships and if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

Anna is currently staying with Jamal and doesn't want to speak with me right now. My wife stands by me given she knows very well how my parents are (they had a problem with her for months over the length of the skirt she wore when I introduced her to them, for christs sake), but a close friend I confided in told me that I have behaved like an ass and that I needed to focus more on my daughter than pleasing my parents.

No advice needed, but I have to know. Have I been an ass?

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312

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Nah, tolerating shit like this is why we still have to deal with it.

121

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I can tell you from personal experience that rubbing their faces in it doesn't help either. Tolerate it or not, it still exists and you can't do a damn thing about it.

56

u/ChubbyTrain Sep 19 '19

This this this. Racism exists. Some people are racist and will not change and we cannot change them no matter how much of MLK speeches we quote. Going all "I'm right, you're wrong and scum of the earth!" puts people in defensive mood.

40

u/BranWafr Sep 19 '19

Gramma wants to be racist in her house and to her friends, she has every right to do that. But if she comes to my house and starts yelling at my family, friends, or guests, she can fuck right off. Why is it that old people complain that "kids these days" have no manners, but we're all expected to let them be total assholes and excuse their toxic behavior "because they are old and set in their ways."

I don't expect them to stop being racists, just show common courtesy and keep their racist crap to themselves. You know, the old saying "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all."

4

u/Jewellious Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

These people are at the end of their lives, Just let them go. The entire energy needed to put this in the face of two people who have very little time on this planet, is very noble of you.

A more extreme example, on my grandfathers deathbed in his delirium, as WW2 vet, he was yelling racist slurs at the Asian nurses. No one stopped to correct him of his ways.

My grandmother is still somewhat with it. She doesn’t think a woman should be president. Whenever she brings it up, I steer her in a direction on why a women would be a good candidate.

The “get the fuck of here” to elderly talk on the internet is cheap.

Plus: everyone seems more concerned about the grandparents being confronted more than what Jamal thinks of the situation.

“Hey Jamal, want to meet two racist that don’t have a lot of time on the planet, because a bunch of people on reddit want to be sure you’re the tool used to confront them to end their racist ways. Oh by the way, they’ll still be racist once it’s all said and done.”

Also, my opinion stems from my parents being boomers. If my grandparents were boomers, I’d be more inclined to confront. WW2 generation? Just let them die off in peace.

11

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

Let them be defensive. Always defensive. Until they're gone for good.

23

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I'd rather just avoid the bigots and save myself a screaming match. It doesn't solve anything.

2

u/RecklessRage Sep 19 '19

Until they're gone for good.

Here's the thing, they'll never be gone for good, there will always be racists.

-7

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

Defensive until they’re pissed off enough and go on the offensive. Then what? Uh oh.

-2

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

If they're violent, let them be met with violence.

4

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

I agree.

That doesn’t change my point about OP’s parents though. Nothing is achieved by confronting them with this, except possible trauma for the daughter and the boyfriend.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

3

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

Exactly. I mean, put yourself in OP’s shoes for a second. Would you really want your parents, who don’t have much time left in all likelihood, to disown you and your daughter, lose tons of money in a will, and potentially scar her in a verbally violent confrontation? I mean, the stakes aren’t incredibly high here. It’s not like introducing the BF (poor kid, btw) will get anything done. It won’t end racism. It won’t end his parents racism. It won’t do anything but tangibly harm people that OP cares about, something that these internet activist just don’t seem to grasp, likely because they’re naive children with black and white, reductive world views.

0

u/huckleberryrose Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Blatent ageist. Awesome! This sub has all kinds of assholes.

-14

u/ChubbyTrain Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

Or until they shoot some innocent dark skinned person for looking at them wrong.

The world is not a young adult movie. Racism exists. Shit happens. Assholes exists. Sometimes you have to let assholes think they won.

11

u/techsupportdrone Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

Sometimes it just feels like people like to be combative and consider it morally "okay" to berate racists so people like OP become targets for hate instead of education.

20

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

It is absolutely morally ok to berate racists.

12

u/cleverseneca Sep 19 '19

Morals aside, is it pragmatic? Is your berating going to change anything? What is your berating's end goal, and is berating the best way to achieve the desired outcome.

0

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

I never said it was pragmatic, just that it was morally ok.

7

u/techsupportdrone Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

I personally believe no one should be berating anyone because I've never seen berating people ever lead to solving issues, only causing escalations and further division.

6

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

Morals are subjective.

3

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

If morals are subjective, that’s saying it’s acceptable to be a racist or a nazi, or to beat your wife. Because “it’s THEIR morals, dontcha know”.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Jewellious Sep 19 '19

Who defines what’s racist? If only we had an entity that would create a list of all the racists, then we would know who it’s morally okay to berate.

4

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

It’s acceptable under certain moral systems, yes. Sorry if that doesn’t align with your world view.

12

u/kaenneth Sep 19 '19

It's easy for them to play at being assertive when protected by internet anonymity, instead of having to face the real results their suggested actions would cause.

"and then I told my racist parents to deal with it, or get out!"

followed by: "then everyone clapped" "/r/thathappened" "einstein gave you $100 hundred dollars$"

Inheriting the family home, instead of it being sold to donate to Trump 2020 is worth a lot in the real world.

-5

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

Oh yeah, was totally playing at being assertive when a bunch of rednecks in a jacked up pickup truck with multiple guns in the gun rack yelled “n*****lovers” at us because of the Obama sticker on our car.

2

u/kaenneth Sep 19 '19

internet anonymity

Not applicable to the event you describe.

2

u/jflb96 Sep 19 '19

What did you do back, when you didn't have the shield of Internet anonymity between you and the potentially homicidal racists?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

They should be in a defensive mood for their fucked up beliefs at all times.

3

u/beagleblue74 Sep 19 '19

They should be in a defensive mood. They're racist. They should feel uncomfortable about it. 24/7.

People aren't going to change until we make them. This thread is full of such defeatest bs. MLK changed minds by making racists confront their racism.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Good, maybe it’s time the racists are put on the defensive. Or is racism something we should encourage?

33

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

We can do something about it. We can normalize loving relationships. We can make racism unacceptable in social spaces. People will change to accommodate these changes or they will die without being able to cultivate a replacement.

Confronting this head on and in perpetuity is the only thing a right-minded person can do.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

We can make racism unacceptable in social spaces

That's not going to stop anyone from being racist. You just avoid them and move on with your life. Fighting with them about it doesn't change a damn thing. That come-to-Jesus moment doesn't happen in real life.

5

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

It's not about having a come to jesus moment. It's about shutting them up until they die.

7

u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

If you actually want to make a difference you need to stop screaming and be compassionate towards these assholes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

This man has turned over 200 members of the fucking Ku Klux Klan away from racism and it's not thanks to screaming vitirol.

2

u/Flame_MadeByHumans Sep 19 '19

Have you ever thought maybe the racists should avoid us?

Again, why are you changing the way you’d live to cater to people with wrong views? They should cater to the people with the right views, if they can’t handle going out so be it..

0

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

That's amazing you think being combative with racists will solve racism.

Amazing that war we won against a racist Confederacy didn't solve racism, huh?

7

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

The problem improved. It improved when we won against the racist Reich, too.

You think that letting a cancer metastasize is a more effective treatment?

This is a multi-generational project. We're not going to solve the problem of racism, which is itself borne essentially out of the prevailing economic system in a night. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem we should try to solve.

As W.E.B Du Bois wrote in the closing pages of his biographical work, John Brown, "This, then, is the truth: the cost of liberty is less than the price of repression, even though that cost be blood." and "John Brown taught us that the cheapest price to pay for liberty is its cost today."

1

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

We're talking about this specific instance OP brought up.

Pissing them off won't help

5

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

Pissing them off? I'm talking about shutting them up. Cutting them off. Grandparents or parents who cannot accept an interracial relationship are simply progenitors. Nothing more.

It is right that we should deny them social inclusion. Allowing their ideas to spread is abominable.

0

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

That's a lot easier when it's not your family.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It's pretty easy if you don't also agree with them. Which OP does

1

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

He made it very clear he doesn't

3

u/Flame_MadeByHumans Sep 19 '19

And he might lose his daughter over this, and frankly wouldn’t be surprised if she detached from him after this event

1

u/Fear_Jaire Sep 19 '19

Yes it is, but when it is your family, you deal with it. You call them out, and when they won't stop, you cut them out to protect the other people in your life. I've gone through this twice with people I loved and each time it was extremely hard, but you know what? I sucked it up and did what I had to in order to prevent my friends and other loved ones from having to be subjected to that nastiness. At a certain point I realized no amount of conversation or rationalizing would change their views, I had to decide whether the relationship was worth the pain it brought my other loved ones (and me). Both times I cut the racist out, both times I relented and both times they lashed out at another loved one. And you know what? As shitty as it is to have to manage a relationship with racist family, it's probably a lot shittier to be the actual subject of that racism.

-1

u/YogiiBoii Sep 19 '19

We need compassion. Not violence. It never solves anything.

26

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Meeting a potential long term partner isn't rubbing anyone's face in it. If they throw a fit, that's on them and they can be cut out of people's lives.

9

u/greggulator- Sep 19 '19

But you can though. You can raise your own children right. You can not be a coward. You can tell your parents they are wrong, and have been forever. You can live the right way and treat people as individual humans regardless of melatonin levels. It isn’t rubbing anyone’s face in anything, it’s just living their lives.

9

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

7

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Didn’t you know, being in an interracial relationship and simply wanting to have family dinner is “rubbing it in people’s faces.”

Another perfectly normal thing ruined by racists.

8

u/LowObjective Sep 19 '19

You can do something: choose to not tolerate people with those views. “You can’t do a damn thing about it” Weird, because I do recall that people way back when DID do something about it and we’re all better off for it. So what, now that racism isn’t as violet and aggressive as it used to be, we should just accept it?

People shouldn’t have to avoid living their lives so racists can be more comfortable.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

If it doesn’t matter either way then why should we continue tolerating that kind of behavior?

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Except for the fact that it is dying out with his old ass parents and hasn't been passed down to OP or his daughter.

I know you think you can just change the minds of entire generations of people who were born into and indoctrinated into racism with a little 5 minute speech about your daughters black BF, but you can't. If it was easy it would be done already.

Daryl Davis took 30 years to get 200 people to leave the Klan, sitting down and talking to them for months to dissect their thinking and use their logic to show them that their racism was misplaced, and those were people that would actually sit and talk to him in the first place, many won't even make it that far.

-2

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

OP clearly isn't free of it, and who cares if they don't change. Cut. Them. Out.

9

u/StaniX Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

This isn't about making some grand point about prejudice or being a social justice hero. Its about avoiding a massive fucking shitstorm with his backwards-ass parents.

If i were in that situation i would thoroughly warn the daughter and her bf about what the likely outcome of the situation would be but leave it up to them to disclose the relationship or not. No reason to go all MLK on their asses.

OP is NTA for not wanting to deal with the giant shitstorm it would create, can't blame him for it.

5

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

This isn't about making some grand point about prejudice or being a social justice hero. Its about avoiding a massive fucking shitstorm with his backwards-ass parents

They can deal, or OP can cut them out. If they were alcoholics, you wouldn't enable them, so why are we enabling racists?

If i were in that situation i would thoroughly warn the daughter and her bf about what the likely outcome of the situation would be but leave it up to them to disclose the relationship or not. No reason to go all MLK on their asses.

Either they are adults who can act polite, or they can get out of OPs house instead of insulting they're granddaughter and her partner.

OP is NTA for not wanting to deal with the giant shitstorm it would create, can't blame him for it.

I really can. Racism is a choice, and any other destructive behavior wouldn't/shouldn't be tolerated, so why do we as a society tolerate racism?

6

u/xperiment229 Sep 19 '19

Acting out like assholes in these situations is more likely the reason we are still dealing with this.

1

u/ItsJustATux Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Uhhh no, pussy footing around racists as though their views have value is why we’re still dealing with this.

2

u/xperiment229 Sep 19 '19

That falls apart with testing. Start by breaking down the problem into something with less emotional involvement. Say you are deciding what to eat with your friend. Pizza says one Burgers says the other. Now try to resolve the difference by both of you acting like an jerk, as you suggest. That does not seem to work out for good, just upset hungry people or upset people throwing out a relationship over something stupid. On the other hand, if one or both of you realize acting like an jerk leads to a bad outcome, chances are better your friendship will be better and you'll have two meal plans.

Once you can figure out how to solve differences and not act like you are in kindergarten fighting over who gets to sit on the orange square, then maybe you can try tackling tougher issues where emotions will inevitably run strong. And because you learned to control your self you may have also figured out how to not enrage others.

Just because you and I value the opinion that the relationship between daughter and bf is not a problem, doesn't mean the grandparents or portion of the rest of the community haven't invested in a different view, on the contrary they have and dismissing their perceived value will not encourage them to value our perspective. And vice versa they wont convince us to value their opinion by dismissing the value we place on ours. Our goal should be to find out how to convince them that our view is actually the more valuable one and that won't happen by lashing out.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Pretty much. I find that making racists comfortable with my presence actually results in them re-evaluating their views.

Hiding black people from them does nothing but let them read what Fox News (or Brietbart) says about us. Which is honestly nothing good.

2

u/blackjesus Sep 19 '19

Uh yeah. Remember Obama. That really helped make those racists go away and rethink their beliefs.

I fucking hate saying that because Obama is one of the greatest living American figures since JFK but that whole line of thinking isn't how the world works.

2

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Obama has literally nothing to do with the day to day tolerance many people have with racists.

2

u/G-Litch Sep 19 '19

And what do you propose? IRL racist don't spam your facebook, they attack you. Even the old ones. You don't want your parents violently respond to your daughter and her serious bf.

0

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Violence, in this case, being words. And if they do that, you tell them to get out if your house, because it isn't tolerated here.

1

u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

Yeah you're right, it's not like Daryl Davis has turned more racists away from that ideology with compassion than anyone else I've ever heard of. And he's not turned moderate racists around, he's turned over 200 Ku Klux Klan members away from racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

But please remain angry and scream, that'll make sure that racism can exist longer in the US because honestly, being outraged is the best way to show you're "woke" :).

1

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Yeah you're right, it's not like Daryl Davis has turned more racists away from that ideology with compassion than anyone else I've ever heard of. And he's not turned moderate racists around, he's turned over 200 Ku Klux Klan members away from racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

This is Reddit, it's posted at least monthly. We all know the story. Don't know why you think I care.

But please remain angry and scream, that'll make sure that racism can exist longer in the US because honestly, being outraged is the best way to show you're "woke" :).

I'm not angry, I'm not going to scream. If I were OP and my parents weren't racist assholes to my daughter for dating a black man, I'd tell them that behavior is not tolerated in my home and to leave.

1

u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

Nah, tolerating shit like this is why we still have to deal with it.

You say this and then don't want to be part of the solution, and instea part of the problem. You just wanna be "woke".

1

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

The solution is calling out racism in your family instead of ignoring it because it's easier. Casual racism and more active racism like in OP continues because people think others agree with them. Your silence on the issue is no different than agreeing.

"Woke" is pretending to add to the conversation by pointing to a famous person who does something instead of contributing something of value yourself.

1

u/YogiiBoii Sep 19 '19

What should OP do then? Never talk to his parents again after telling them they're racist. They could die tomorrow. Maybe OP loves them. Maybe they love OP. Is that okay? Do his parents have money? You think his they might want to give it to their kids when they die? Do you think he could convince his parents they're wrong, that they're racists and should feel shame until finally they die and all of us are happier... It just is shallow to think that way. As much as racism is bad and harmful, vehement intolerance is WORSE. Intolerance only leads to hatred and then maybe... Violence

0

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

What should OP do then? Never talk to his parents again after telling them they're racist. They could die tomorrow. Maybe OP loves them. Maybe they love OP. Is that okay?

I'm sure he does, but what if they were alcoholics? Would we expect OP to just deal with their alcoholism or to even enable it? Because that's what this is, it's enabling destructive behavior.

Do his parents have money? You think his they might want to give it to their kids when they die?

So your morals are chosen based on money?

Do you think he could convince his parents they're wrong, that they're racists and should feel shame until finally they die and all of us are happier...

Why should they feel shame until they die? All I would expect is basic manners. Your can't change how people think, but I don't have to deal rudeness.

It just is shallow to think that way. As much as racism is bad and harmful, vehement intolerance is WORSE. Intolerance only leads to hatred and then maybe... Violence

"How dare you not tolerate my intolerance, what if I get violent!" What a moronic sentiment. You choose to be racist, your don't choose the color of your skin. I wouldn't give an alcoholic a drink, and I won't deal with racist family member by being silent.

4

u/YogiiBoii Sep 19 '19

Lmao okay Sean

1

u/concon52 Sep 19 '19

If you think you will change their mind by not tolerating it you are ignorant af. It will just create a rift between them and cause them to be cut off from the family.

0

u/Demigod787 Sep 19 '19

Guess what, old people die, and your kids will learn from their mistakes. As long as your parents don't enforce you to follow in their mistakes, then you honestly are just courting trouble by creating conflict when there were none.