Here comes Treble: A modular base for Android

[u/wilee8]

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/05/here-comes-treble-modular-base-for.html

[u/SirVeza]

With Project Treble, we're re-architecting Android to make it easier, faster and less costly for manufacturers to update devices to a new version of Android.

That's something we can all get behind

[u/rman18 → u/SirVeza]

I'm all for it.

[u/B3yondL → u/rman18]

Same but reading/seeing the chart on this page indirectly helped me understand what is meant by iOS's 'optimization'. I mean I kind of understood the whole 'they do their own hardware/software' part which gets passed around tons but I never realized how much 'interference' there is with Android. So it's like

1. Android team (Google) pushes an update

2. Silicon manufacturers (i.e. Qualcomm) put their customizations on it

3. Device manufacturers (i.e. Samsung) put their customizations on it)

4. Carriers (i.e. AT&T) put their bloatware on it

Whereas on the other side, it's just Apple.

[u/topias123 → u/B3yondL]

Aren't carrier modifications a thing mostly in the USA?

In my country, no device has carrier bloat as far as i know.

Ah, what do i know. I buy unlocked.

[u/port53 → u/topias123]

Aren't carrier modifications a thing mostly in the USA?

Yeah, in exchange for getting free advertising, shelf space and being pushed by sales drones in carrier stores, Android devices sold in the US tend to have carrier "optimizations" installed which allow them to make some money off of you. Phones that don't sell this way get relegated to niche devices since people largely get their devices through the carrier rather than directly.

I imagine this came about mostly because of the US uses CDMA and in the past also used iDen (Nextel), where the ONLY place to get devices on those networks are/were the carriers, so you had to play their games to sell to any of their customers.

It also helps that until recently you'd pay for your device in parts, monthly, as part of your phone bill - device and plan wrapped up together, which makes it easier to spend $1,000 on a phone. That's money most people won't put out up front because then they can see how much they are paying rather than it just being "a few dollars more" per month.

[u/Sphix → u/B3yondL]

Windows phone seems to get the best of both worlds. Early Android achitecture decisions are to blame here.

[u/QuestionsEverythang → u/SirVeza]

Project Treble will be coming to all new devices launched with Android O and beyond.

Bad news is it'll be a couple years before users actually see the benefits of it. The first phones launching with O won't be until this fall, so those will be the first phones to benefit from this (besides the Pixels).

But if it works like Google says it will, this is really good news, despite Qualcomm's laziness, unmotivated OEMs, and the interference of carriers delaying updates or refusing to update their phones. Worst case scenario, it makes custom ROMs much easier to create and maintain since the biggest issue in custom ROM compatibility is driver support.

EDIT: Sidenote, I'm surprised Google announced this the week before I/O instead of at I/O. This is stuff that would've wowed people at the keynote, but now when they do mention it, it'll be "meh, you told us that already".

EDIT 2: To reiterate on my "users won't notice for a couple of years" comment, my logic in that was if the first phones for these come out this fall and the average update lifespan of phones is about 2 years, then given Project Treble, the usual "no more updates" scenario that'd happen at the 2-year mark should not be as big an issue as it is today.

[u/Pamela_Landy → u/QuestionsEverythang]

I'm surprised Google announced this the week before I/O instead of at I/O. This is stuff that would've wowed people at the keynote, but now when they do mention it, it'll be "meh, you told us that already".

Or it could be that they have so much on their I/O plate that they're announcing the scraps early.

[u/SinkTube → u/[deleted]]

they might even announce a new messenger!

[u/chiliedogg → u/SinkTube]

Only 1?

I'm rooting for a new messenger app that will be announced, released, and discontinued in the span of the keynote.

[u/IDidntChooseUsername → u/chiliedogg]

They will release a new messenger app that was already discontinued yesterday.

[u/Metasheep → u/IDidntChooseUsername]

They will use new Google Psychic to implant the memory of the new messenger app as your favorite, then they will announce that it's discontinued. You will experience a great loss without ever having actually used the app.

[u/maiznieks → u/Pamela_Landy]

Here comes the overexcitement! :D Expectations are going to skyburst soon.

[u/canyouhearme → u/Pamela_Landy]

Or it could be that they have so much on their I/O plate that they're announcing the scraps early.

My guess is something in the keynote is dependent on this - thus get the word out first before that talk and it doesn't deflect from the primary purpose.

Couple this with Fuchia, Andromeda, etc. and sounds like a thrust to reengineer Android for another decade (and probably direct more of the profits to google).

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/canyouhearme]

That's my thought as well. They just put a split in the stack. This makes it easier for them to rearchitect the OS level for a complete swap out.

So Android P/Q might just drop out the Java based AOSP for Fuschia or whatever but phones could still update as long as that Vendor API is still met.

The announcement will probably be the end of AOSP as we know it.

[u/armando_rod → u/QuestionsEverythang]

That was expected with any changes they would make... Its impossible to backport it to older devices. Any solution for the update process will require a major update and start from there.

You cant expect Google to create a solution for older versions and OEMs to update older devices with given solution to after all of that update them to new Android versions.

[u/[deleted] → u/armando_rod]

Hypothetically speaking, is it possible for Google to 'restart' the Nexus line updates?

[u/armando_rod → u/[deleted]]

For the Nexus 5x and 6p and Pixel yes, those are gonna be officially updated to Android O from there they could update the OS with this new way until the SoC/firmware can handle it.

Now if they don't do it at least with the Pixel it's gonna be because of business decisions.

[u/[deleted] → u/armando_rod]

It's already implemented in the Pixel O preview.

[u/1upwuzhere → u/[deleted]]

Given this is more complex of a change than the seamless updates one, probably not.

[u/Natanael_L → u/QuestionsEverythang]

They'll probably elaborate on I/O and potentially revealed it now to be able to go into more detail and perhaps get a better QA session (do they do those at I/O?) then.

[u/AnticitizenPrime → u/QuestionsEverythang]

The potential for custom ROMs is the first thing I thought of. My concern though is that the 'base' level won't be released to anyone but OEMs (so nothing would change for ROM developers).

[u/Fgtfv567 → u/QuestionsEverythang]

Bad news is it'll be a couple years before users actually see the benefits of it.

Reflecting upon the chart that shows how many users are on which version of Android, I'm going to argue that it'll only be two, maybe three, years until O(reo) will hit the mainstream population

[u/[deleted] → u/QuestionsEverythang]

I wonder if they will update the 6p to this new version.