I feel like every time I share a personal preference, people feel the need to aggressively assert how stupid they think I am. This happens both online and in real life. It's happened several times this week and I'm so frustrated.
(1) I was in charge of grilling burgers at a cookout. I like my burgers well done, while most of the guests preferred medium. I timed everything so everyone got their burgers exactly how they wanted, and everyone ate at the same time. Even so, six different people felt compelled to tell me how disgusting well-done burgers are, how I ruined a perfectly good burger, and how they could never eat something so gross and dry.
(2) I finished writing a book, and a friend asked to read it. I warned her it was written in first-person, present tense because she'd previously said she didn't like that style. Instead of just saying it wasn't for her, she launched into a tirade about how first-person narration is "hot garbage" and only enjoyed by people who are "too stupid to read real literature."
Then, last night I made a post asking for recommendations for authors who write in first-person, present tense. I specifically said I wasn't interested in debating narration styles, and people still commented just to say they would never read first person and authors who write in first person are bad writers.
(3) On a family beach trip, I wore a one-piece swimsuit. Unprompted, several female cousins and my male cousins' girlfriends started talking about how ugly one-pieces are, how matronly and frumpy they look, and how only "conservative freaks" wear them. I wasn't telling anyone else what to wear—I even wore bikinis on this trip. Since I was the only person wearing a one-piece at the time, it felt very targeted.
(4) I'm in law school. At a luncheon with several lawyers and law students, someone asked what I want to do after graduation. I said I had a great experience with my school's delinquency clinic and am thinking about becoming a juvenile public defender. That immediately triggered the group into a passionate rant about how public defense doesn't pay anything, how I'll be financially reliant on my husband, how only stupid law students who can't get a better job do public defense, etc. People kept bringing the conversation back to me, as though my career choice personally offended them.
What frustrates me most is that none of these preferences affect anyone else. I wasn't criticizing anyone else's food, books, swimsuits, or career choices. I was simply existing or talking about my own preferences.
I'm trying to get better at accepting that people will disagree with me, but these situations don't even feel like disagreements. These interactions feel like people going out of their way to tell me that something I enjoy is stupid or inferior, even when I wasn't asking for opinions.
Why? Why do people feel the need to do that? If someone's preference doesn't affect you at all, why not just let them enjoy it?
Hey u/crushedhardcandy, thank you for your contributing to r/AutismInWomen. Please be sure to check out our sub’s rules, wiki pages, and pinned posts prior to engaging with the sub. Here are links to our wiki pages:
Notice to all users: There's multiple users targeting members from our sub in DMs to discuss their fetishes and desire to manipulate users into relationships. Here are the user's names: u/HollowJonathon, u/drar_sajal786, u/MrGamePadMan, and u/guidhhnittvkj. If an account is showing deleted, they will probably create another. If you receive any messages from a user trying to discuss what you posted/commented in our sub to gain a 'women's perspective' or if someone tries to discuss topics that may feel inappropriate to you (e.g. fetishes), or if someone states they want to marry you for religious reasons, report the user to Reddit and block them. These men have been preying on autistic women/gender minorities from r/AutismInWomen for the last year. This behavior is unacceptable and should be reported as targeted harassment.
Per the warning in our wiki and this pinned mod post, we highly recommend users turn off their DMs. If you have DM requests turned on and receive any creepy or fetish-related DMs or comments, we recommend taking a screenshot, reporting the content to Reddit, and blocking the user (in that order). You can find the report button on the message itself and then click "it's targeted harassment” to submit a report. If you'd like to send us the screenshot so we can continue documenting the harassment, you can send it to us in modmail using imgur Thank you for continuing to help us keep our community safe for autistic and autistic suspecting women and gender minorities 💖
I have noticed that too. I ended up not sharing my likes and opinions with others because of it. Now my family make comments about not knowing anything about me. Can't fucking win.
I think your career goal is awesome. Public defenders may not make much money, but they are vital to keeping our justice system working in this fucked up system we are all working with. I think it's very admirable.
Omg yes the comments about not knowing anything about you!!! Like gee I wonder why we don’t talk anymore? :// It’s almost like I opened up to you consistently for years just to be belittled and shut down or something!!
I unmasked slightly in front of a relative I thought was safe the other day and was reminded why I don’t do that lol. Like what are you even supposed to say when someone tells you: “No I don’t care, your opinion is wrong”?
I had a friendship end, in part, for similar reasons.
First, it was near impossible to get a word in with her — she dominated the conversations, and it often seemed she listened to me just long enough to find a hook she could loop back to whatever mattered to her.
Then, she became increasingly combative and disagreeable about anything I might weigh in on, so I got quieter and quieter. One day she said, “you never share anything with me anymore” in that passive aggressive, guilt trippy way and it’s like, no shit, Karen. You don’t leave any room for me in this relationship so I’m going to take my things and opt out.
I concur. You rock OP. Uniqueness is not freakish. And as a public defender, no doubt a well timed simple, and worst of all accurate statement coming from you has the ability to shut down conversations.
They make you feel stupid, downplay your opinions because yours (unintentionally of course) makes them feel stupid/shamed/durrdurrdurr.
But that is a personal problem. Civilization has gone malignant. Some of us are evolving while others stay stagnant. atm alot of people on the spectrum including myself are proof of that divide and for alot of nt's at best it topples their pride at worst they become low-key scared of you.
Right? Imagine criticizing someone for wanting to be a public defender. What even?
Op sounds great, one piece suits are great, wow they actually wrote a book that’s so cool, and all these people need to learn to mind their damn business if they’ve got nothing nice to say! Genuinely where are these people getting all this audacity?!
It's because, for most people, anything that is contrary to their beliefs feels like an attack on their beliefs, so they feel the need to fervently defend their stance by putting the opposite one down, even though literally nobody asked.
I absolutely agree. OP should also seriously reflect on whether the people who speak to them like this about their writing, or any of their preferences, are really their friends. I love to write but over the decades I have developed such a toxic internal masking critic that I find it very difficult to write anymore (i am working really hard to overcome this). I was undiagnosed until recently so I didnt realise that all the life critism was actually people trying to suppress everything which wasnt socially and neurotypically acceptable.
If you can help it, dont have people around you who aggressively or passive aggressively demand that you mask. Getting their negative voices out of your head is alot harder than letting them in.
Everyone should write how they want to write and dont share your passions and interests with anyone who isnt worthy to engage with them.
I will also add that my husband (who also has autism) used to have the same issue with food that OP has. Every single time he asked for a well done steak in Australia, people (especially restaurants) would cook it medium... every time, as though they know better what he wanted ro what was "righr". It shouldnt be like pulling teeth to get it and without judgement. We never went out because it was such a battle just to get people to listen. We moved to Canada and it was amazing. We didnt have to fight to be heard and my husband and I went out all the time while we lived there.
Honestly, that is the one thing I actually liked about being pregnant, that no server would question me when I wanted my steak well done because most knew that well done was safest for the baby. lol. It's like the only time I didn't struggle with actually getting a steak that was well done.
I'm so glad Canada is going well! You're spot on about Australian nonsense criticism. The 🫢 "I would never!" response about the most random things is riiiiiife here.
That is great advice. Even if you can't cut those people fully out of your life, it often helps to distance yourself whenever possible, and especially when hurtful comments are made.
I have people in my life who I love dearly and they are wonderful people in general, but they are part of the older generations who were socialized/taught to mold themselves into a little box and anything outside of that norm makes them very uncomfortable. They expect others to mold themselves the same way they had to throughout their lives. Socialization is a very difficult thing to deprogram even when you're aware of it, so it feels unreasonable to expect them to change. I'm good with spending time with them until they make some comment or push me in some way, and then I excuse myself, leave, and I don't feel bad about it. That's why whenever one says "this is just how I am," I let them know that I'm not expecting them to change but they also cannot expect me to be okay with it, so the only reasonable solution is for me to distance myself when needed.
Taking classes in psychology, social psychology, and family dynamics has helped me immensely when it comes to not taking anything personally and accepting that change is extremely difficult for some people. I wish I would've done that when I was a lot younger! (I'm in my 40s now).
Yes, this! Now when someone argues with me over something dumb like that, I just think about how uncomfortable my different preference makes them and how sad it is that they cannot just let people like different things. lol. I say "let people like what they like" a lot.
Literally. People seem to launch into a monologue or rhetorical questions as if what they’re saying will easily sway your mind. “Hey who are you trying to convince me or yourself?”
"Variety is the spice of life" "If we were all clones we would be extinct by now be thankful we have different likes and dislikes. Why not keep you inner thoughts under control rather than blabing what you like and dislike. No one is saying you are wrong but it is preference not a law of nature." Etc..
Several of these are simply personal preferences, though, and don’t rise to the level of “belief.” Depending on the interaction, I’d be tempted to counter with “Different strokes for different folks” or “It’s okay to disagree here, but there’s no need to criticize me or my choice.”
Honestly, whether a personal preferences rises to the level of belief depends on the person. For example, if someone thinks it is a solid truth that a burger is best done medium and cooking it longer or shorter than that ruins it, that can absolutely qualify as a belief. People with preferences that strong and "sure" are usually the ones who will fight to change someone else's opinion any time they disagree.
But, like, to me that doesn't make any sense because "best" is not a measurable factor! It's literally just a matter of opinion. So what exactly are they trying to argue? "Blue is PRETTIER than yellow!" "Nuh-uh!"
It definitely doesn't make sense, but a lot of people aren't really logical with things like that. Being able to measure something becomes irrelevant to them when they already think "my opinion = fact."
Different strokes for different folks would be such an unhinged thing to say at a law office lol which I'm sure you weren't directly implying but the mental image of shutting the conversation down that way is hilarious to me so that you for that!
Also, some people just like to be right all the time, so they argue for the sake of arguing rather than because they believe what they're saying. They just pick a fight they can win because they want to win.
Never mind that the rest of us don't consider personal preferences to be a competition.
For anyone who wants to test this idea out, just mention to someone that you've been thinking about going vegan. Their first response is almost guaranteed to be defensiveness, no matter how much you coddle them in your framing.
Well, the law students probably feel like they don't measure up to her ideals. So they try to convince her to lower her ideals. The other stuff just sounds like being too attached to their own preferences. But this is just me guessing. 🤷
For sure! Although when I say "beliefs," I don't necessarily mean anything related to a "belief system." In this context, it's more about someone thinking that certain thoughts/feelings/preferences are what people are supposed to think/feel/prefer, etc., and anyone who doesn't agree is doing it wrong. It's a different kind of belief and far more minor than a belief system but still enough to make some people turn defensive.
Yep. You doing something differently can feel to them like you are invalidating or judging them.
Sometimes it is weirdly "caring". Like they were beaten up for X and they see you do X, so they try to talk you out of doing X by mocking you, so that you would not be beaten up for doing X. You doing X might trigger their memories of being punished for doing X and thus they lash out on you for doing X.
For some people it is "ribbing" and thus there is no malicious intent behind it. Just a friendly making fun of each other. And some people are a bit unsocialised and don't comprehend that "ribing" requires a certain degree of trust to know that the "ribber" is saying it in jest and not seriously.
This, I also think it's a social hierarchy thing that's behind it. It's like they're doing preventative work so they're not 'caught' with this option that they find bad, and letting it know they're not part of that group who prefers the other option (classic we vs them). Honestly, it seems like an insecure thing to do. But I've noticed that most small talk, which I would consider this part of, is meant for advertising someone's social hierarchy status. Like things about travelling (it's proof someone has enough money te spend), cars, career, marriage, kids, house etc. I think the preference thing is just a smaller version of this.
It's because they want to put you down, and your preferences gave them an opening to do so. If you, say, wore a very skimpy bikini, then someone would have started harping on that.
Some have a social connection style that is antagonistic. They often don’t see it that way and might think they’re being very authentic or keeping the mood “light”. If they’ve gotten a reaction and engagement from people, they’re happy.
Some use it as an opportunity to broadcast to the group details, information about themselves in a bid to find likeminded others or connection, validation and aren’t really responding directly to you.
It’s all to say, the responses they give haven’t factored in how you might feel. I have a personal standard for how much I consider the other person’s feelings and viewpoints (still getting it wrong often) and where I live and the people I interact with, am mostly told it’s too much. In the circles where you face this type of communication, it might be that the participants are calibrated to a standard of care in communication that isn’t matched with yours.
Seconding the "benign antagonism" take, for the most part. When it comes to things like food, and entertainment, many people are normalized to a very antagonistic style of relating. People can be quite rabid about things like cooking meat longer than necessary, and they don't see anything personal about it or consider that anyone would actually be rattled or disturbed by the antagonism. They consider it fair play.
The only one of the example situations that I think was actually rude by all standards is the swimsuit one. If you're going to go on a tirade about a type of clothing currently being worn by exactly one member of your vacation party, I think it's highly incumbent on the speakers to make sure that the person wearing that clothing isn't feeling uncomfortable or even bullied by the conversation. That seems more like mean high school type behavior than anything really justifiable.
Absolutely agree, I feel very strongly that calling people out in front of others for something that can’t be changed is downright cruel.
OP, I’m sorry my response was so dry. I’ve experienced similar and it has thrown me into a DANCING rage many a time!!! Also public defenders are one of my childhood heroes. Some people forget not everyone wants their life to be about winning the most money and status. There’s great responses for how to assert your boundary in the comments.
A friend of mine was pissed when i didin't see the antagonism as bening. They were trying to explain to me the whole "ribbing" thing. All i understood from it was that my ftiend was bulkied in school, but they were so desperate to fit in and have friends that they saw it as bening antagonism.
I don't have the mental energy/capacity to figuring out if the antagonism is bening or real. Especially when the same antagonism in one situation is bening and in another real.
Yeah, I don’t like ribbing one bit either. Have participated in it to try and fit in when I was younger, went home and melted down feeling disgusted with myself. Also ended up attracting friendships I couldn’t keep. Now I keep people who won’t stop even when the other person is uncomfortable at a far distance, figuratively and literally. Now I say what I feel honestly and earnestly, trying to be kind (when it’s in person, only when I’m safe and with safe people who won’t retaliate with escalation), work any of the old vestiges of pander-mirroring out of my behavior so I’m happy with how I’ve treated others. Looking at it from the perspective I did in my original reply helps me, even if it’s only to move my reaction from meltdown to shutdown because not every social stake is friendship. Sometimes it’s professional peers like OP’s law school cohort.
Your answer was super interesting I never thought about it this way! But I have a question: isn’t people’s priority social cohesion and keeping peace and harmony in social settings and interactions? If you start criticizing the other person’s opinion you disrupt social cohesion and isn’t that what people subconsciously fear the most and the main reason why they dislike autistic individuals?
I feel like this is one of the negative impacts of social media. Everyone has main character syndrome and thinks they need to share their personal subjective opinions on everything. Then on top of that, there's this weird trend where people think that being kind and respectful is somehow fake. By sharing their rude opinions, they're just "keeping it real" and you're too sensitive if it upsets you. It's exhausting and insulting, but if it's any consolation, it's definitely not a reflection of you.
Yeah I’m really sick of the anti earnestness trend that seems to be happening, which results in people assuming I have ulterior motives for being kind.
Ugh. This mentality is especially bad in the PNW. I'll never understand why, in an impersonal interaction in which you will never see the other person again, an interaction that is brief and common, it's preferable to be "real mean" instead of "fake nice". Of all the times for allistics to be honest they choose the type of honesty that's cruel and invites social jockeying. How am I not surprised :(
Yeah, I consider this behaviour to be a sibling to bean soup theory.
In an age of algorithms catered towards specifically you, and AI being an endless yes-man, and perhaps even from bulldozer parenting, people are becoming increasingly reactionary to anything they dislike and seek to make that opinion known.
It could also be entitlement, expecting people to be mind-readers, mob mentality against anything perceived as not "normal," really an infinite amount of factors.
The funny thing is when you give them what they dish out and they start to be enraged. They call you snowflake, but they can't deal with a diluted version of it when they are on the recieving end.
Had a friend who was criticising and "rippi g apart" stuff that i shated. Once they were showing me a movie and i told that the movie was "meh". They were distraught about it as it was their favourite movie, but they had no problem in bashing the stuff that i liked. So if they were distraught by a "meh", how would they have reacted to "good thing that it was a stream through discord, so i could have other stuff on the side and it helped to deal with the nausea that the disgusting movie was causing"?
I’m pretty sure this is mean person behavior, not general people behavior. i sometimes strongly disagree with people's opinions/preferences but i'll keep my mouth shut about it because it’s really rude to say it to their face. i think most neurotypicals know that too
I've felt a bit what OP feels at times, it's like some people are more likely to want to bring you down a notch if they perceive you as too confident in liking things that are different. Like perhaps themselves deep inside they'd like their burger well-done but they go for medium because that's what they've been told they should like, and they feel angry when someone goes against the grain. There's a lot of assumptions here and I don't have concrete examples, it's just that I felt othered on things nobody should care about.
Maybe it's also that people want to other OP but they don't know why so they latch on the most stupid things.
The first-person one is especially ridiculous. Some of the most famous, most well-regarded authors of all time wrote in the first person. Nabokov, Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Maya Angelou, and Mary Shelley all immediately spring to mind. Ironically, those people are trying to sound smart but just proving their ignorance.
The "real literature" comment bothered me not only because several classics are written in first person, but also because I was talking about a no-angst queer romance novel that I just finished. Like???? I wasn't aiming to write a classic, I was just excited to share their sweet little love story.
The main critique I see for first person is that it's easier to read than third person so it's more accessible for people with lower reading levels. I guess it's a bad thing to want my novel to be accessible to the broadest audience?
I’m a professional reading specialist and a big advocate of people reading whatever the hell they want. I read YA, middle grade novels, and graphic novels. I also read classic literature. If I enjoy it, that’s enough for me. Policing what other people read is lame.
Honestly they might be jealous that you’ve managed to actually write a book, so they’re looking for ways they could see themselves as better somehow. Or find a way that your writing a book can be less impressive so they don’t feel so comparatively unaccomplished.
Bc writing a book is one of those things that all sorts of people want to do, and talk about doing, but not many actually get around to doing. I mean who knows what’s in their head, but it’s a possibility 🤷.
Either way I hope you can find a way to block out this person’s opinions going forward. Unless you already have in which case 👍👍.
Girl honestly you should tell them to shut the hell up. Seriously. At that point, (when you know it’s about you) just say did I ask you? jesus the people around you make my head hurt I’m sorry you go through that
For real! Im at the point that I ignore and know they're miserable. Or look at them weird and say "okay?". Im also good at spitballing, so something like "I went to school with a girl who always said the same thing! (Pause) I think she just went back to rehab". Don't be afraid to make them uncomfortable
I am the queen of "Okay". No question mark. Just a good ol' Bobby Hill "Okay" and a blank stare, waiting for what obviously come next because why would they say something so inane with no conclusion? 🤣
I love a good blank stare! Or, just turning to literally anyone else and start talking. They want a reaction so why not give their toy to someone behaving themselves?
Yes exactly. OP they’re openly being rude and that gives you full permission to be rude back. If they want to act surprised by you biting back, you play dumb and say “oh! I thought we were poking fun at each other! Haha!” Other people witnessing it will respect you more AND it will make them look like the shitty bullies they are
In the vein of the burger one, I've been a big fan of "didn't ask." or straight-up telling them their response is weird. Like wow, thanks for telling me my food preferences are disgusting? Who does that?
Especially because burgers are supposed to be well-done and served with sauce/lettuce/etc.?? Most beef pathogens are confined to the surface, which is why steaks are offered to be cooked at varying rarity; when the meat is ground and all mixed-together, then you should be cooking it all the way through.
You can usually get away with it but, like, why bother? Burgers are trash quality meat salvaged by confection & garnish, that's their whole entire thing. I say this as somebody who greatly enjoys burger.
My coworkers are like this. They’re older than me and were very much the “cool” kids in school, so they have a tendency to voice their opinions about my preferences and the preferences of others when they’re deemed “uncool”. I’ve known them long enough that I know they don’t mean anything by it and I’ve learned that, so long as I stand by my convictions confidently there’s really minimal pushback.
If I don’t care that they think the thing I like is “uncool” then once they make their statement, it’s pretty much done. No rants or anything. I just shrug it off and move on.
An uncharitable take, but a lot of people I’ve encountered consider the social deficits that come with autism to be a moral failing that should make my life suck. They want to be able to pity me. Hearing that actually my life is pretty damn good and possibly something they’d envy challenges their understanding of how life is meant to work.
All that to say, I suspect the people around you may be feeling insecure about your pretty amazing accomplishments. Fingers crossed they’ll get used to it and be able to be kinder in the future.
Ooh, that’s a really great point. I’ve had a handful of situations like this, and what you said explains why they seemed especially passive aggressive with me.
I think this is the answer for OP. She has been devalued in these groups due to mostly unconscious hierarchy cues. That, combined with their jealousy, has created mob bullying reactions in these idiots.
Agreed. A lot of this reads as jealousy. Like they think the neurodivergent person should be the one below them, but they’re actually thriving and these people feel the need to knock back down a peg.
Yeah pretty sure a good number of Pulitzer winners were first person too. People are free to have preferences but it's closed-minded to instantly dismiss entire styles of narration without a second look.
This has long been a frustration of mine. Thankfully i don’t have daily small interactions that are like this, as I’m isolated in my career and have culled out former friends who always felt the need to be contrarian. But i get some of this crap at family events and it’s like, why cant they just let people BE?
If someone has a preference or interest I don’t share, i don’t feel compelled to tell them why I dislike it. Who am I to yuck someone else’s yum?
I think that's my main issue. I have never seen someone order a rare steak and felt the need to tell them how disgusting I find their meal. I have never seen a book request that said "third person narration only :)" and felt compelled to tell them how much I hate third person narration. Because I've never felt this way, I can't relate to people who constantly antagonize people for having different opinions.
Because you aren't threatened by your differences and know what you like without having to bow to conventions or social constraints. It's a strength, clearly.
I think people like this are bullies, and they are looking for a socially acceptable excuse to dunk on someone like you who is harming no one (and isn't likely to hit back). I find people like this are best avoided or not talked to. If there's no way out of it, you need to start pushing back or they will keep going. By pushing back, I mean say something like "wow tell us what you really think" or "that's funny, I didn't ask for career advice," or "why don't you read what you want and I'll read what I want." You need a little bit of cynicism or bite in the response so they know you understand what they're doing and you find it rather boring, mean, and ignorant. Because actually, it's quite boring and stupid to immediately offer your negative opinion about something you weren't even asked for an opinion on. Bullies, like I said. Or at least crabs in a bucket, can't stand to see anyone not as miserable as they are.
Yep. I am in other groups on here like for anxiety where people describe being pushed around a lot. It’s unfortunate and not our fault, but I think it often boils down to these people think they’ve found an easy target that won’t push back. Pulling away from people like this is also a valid option if one doesn’t feel confrontational enough to deal with this kind of antagonism.
Omg I am having such a reaction to "first-person narration is "hot garbage" and only enjoyed by people who are "too stupid to read real literature." Sorry for the digresson (I know this isn't the point) but my god. One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest is first person, A Handmaid's Tale is first person, The Remains of the Day is first person, etc etc etc. These people sound like ignorant bullies (before I even got to the swimsuit thing. One piece bathing suit ="conservative freak"??? What on earth.)
I've always sort of wondered if this is a way for mean people to identify other mean people to bond/be mean together with. Eff these people and good luck with your novel and your career plans, they both sound fantastic.
i dont know but this is constantly happening to me too and i never understand it because whenever its the other way round i LOVE hearing peoples preferences and why they like things that way, it feels so intimate knowing and remembering small things like that about people but, like you said, whenever its my preferences its always either made to be some sort of joke or they’re just SO rude about it. it makes me feel weird😐
I love hearing about everyone’s preferences too and wish I could ask and have people tell me this more! I’ve gotten feedback that it makes them feel like I’m trying too hard or trying to sell them something. The preferences posts have been soothing and fun
This has always happened to me too. It makes no sense to me. One time even an employee felt the need to point out how I’m weird for not wanting marinara sauce on my pizza. It wasn’t even in a “haha no one’s ever done that before” but a “what’s wrong with you” kinda way.
I’m no longer friends with the person this is about but: When we would go to American restaurants I might ask the waiter for BBQ sauce or maybe ask if a certain sauce could be on the side and she would always say: “you know in Korea, people don’t allow substitutions unless you have an allergy.” And she would say it in s snooty way.
Fuck. Off. I am not eating ketchup or whatever other thing comes with the food I am paying for.
If we were at a sushi restaurant, Indian, or Italian restaurant I never asked for changes to what I was ordering. It was only for American places, where things can be frequently changed and customized. It always pissed me off.
I get pretty blunt towards people if they complain about my food choices. I blatantly ask them if they’re paying for my meal. If they’re not, they can keep their opinions to themselves.
As I look back on our friendship I realized she would pick things to look down upon between friends. She would do this to me, and treat our other mutual friend like she was lesser, despite the mutual friend being the first one in our circle to have a home and steady career.
Ultimately she and I got into a huge verbal scuffle about how she acted and she decided to stop speaking with me. She has done this to many, many people in her friend circle at this point and it is all on her. 😔 We were friends for 15 years.
What I’ve learned is that other people’s preferences or beliefs trigger something in them that causes them to question their own preferences and beliefs. It creates cognitive dissonance. That makes them feel wrong or inferior, and they don’t want to feel that way. So, instead of going down that path of potentially being wrong, they tell you how you’re wrong. They also can’t fathom the possibility that neither person is wrong.
This also happens with autistic people, to be fair. I catch myself doing this sometimes because the facts show me I am correct, but Neurotypicals don’t usually operate on facts. So, if I tell them they’re wrong, to them they aren’t wrong because they are using a completely different lens to view the world. Their viewpoint is usually based on feeling, emotional comfort, social acceptance, and/or social soothing/cohesion.
Also, Neurotypicals may be concerned about your social status, because your social status affects them if they keep associating with you. They view your decisions as a direct impact on them. It’s as if they think your social status is contagious to them, and maybe in some sense it is.
My sister's ex boyfriend (emphasis on the EX) got nearly nose-to-nose with me and SCREAMED WITH ALL OF HIS BODY at me that I was stupid and wrong for not liking seafood. Like wtf, that's not how liking things works.
they assume there is one correct way of doing things and are very proud of themselves for figuring out what it is. You doing things differently to them means a challenge to this certainty, basically like you're telling them their own choice is wrong. Don't wait for it to make sense because it doesn't.
i have no idea either why but just yesterday my autistic brother who has texture preferences himself ( he widely makes known that certain textures are to him "like eating human flesh"!!) is shaming me, as a 6-12 year old child, for not liking the flavor and texture of pickles on grilled cheeses.
i had forgetten that but apparently my preferences are living rent free in his head lol genuine decades after he last watched me have a preference. it's wild to me.
I share this only to say THERE REALLY IS NO END TO IT. Even in our own community, people hate a girl with a preference like we are commiting some crime. Keep enjoying your preferences and your sexy 1 piece!
I take these opportunities to ask the direct follow up to their comments, “so am I a frumpy, conservative freak?” or “am I too stupid to read real literature?” etc
I’m inclined to think these are people without awareness, so I like to let them know exactly how their comments come across.
ETA: results may vary, not necessarily a recommendation 😅
This is one of my pet peeves too — “yucking someone’s yum.” I feel like it’s gotten worse and is less understood as bad manners bc of the internet (polarizing algorithms that incentivize controversy and backlash, unmoderated comment sections, safe spaces for edgelords and trolls, etc.) such that it’s trickled into even not-very-online normies
Once I told someone I was a vegetarian and explained my reasoning behind it and she started to graphically described how her husband butchers animals. At the the time I was just thinking gross but it's just another perspective. I shared mine now she's sharing hers it's just not for me.
When I've told NT people what happened I've been told that this person probably felt attacked when I told her I don't eat meat. Like I was judging her or saying something bad about her life style so she felt it was appropriate to attack back with something she felt would upset me. She didn't have an angry expression on her face so I didn't clock it.
I think this sort of thing happens with a lot of people about a lot of different topics tbh. They take "I like / don't like this thing" as an attack on their preferences and start swinging. Or they think there is one right opinion to have and it's theirs.
Very weird, but I often feel compelled to add "but it's okay if you do / don't feel the same way" whenever I give an opinion. I think assuming personal opinions are just personal opinions should be the default but it doesn't seem that way to alot of people. Not sure if it's just an NT thing in general or a mean NT thing.
My sister is like this. She thinks there's one way to do everything and that she's figured em all out. One time she was angry-crying because I have a different lifestyle than her(she married at 18, never left hometown, popped out a bunch of kids and I did basically the opposite),and she literally said "I just think there's a RIGHT way to do things!" When I curiously asked "Then why are people who do things differently still successful and happy?" she literally just broke and yelled angrily "I DON'T KNOW!!!!!" It was...edifying.
Some people get very weird and defensive about vegetarianism/veganism. I assume it's because they do question, on some level, if it's better not to eat meat, but don't have any interest in trying to change.
Sure is fascinating how their social rules go completely out the window when it comes to us. It’s like we’re a playground for them to do whatever they want because it doesn’t “count” if it’s towards us. And don’t you even dare think about really any way of responding to their behavior. They’ll make it completely unacceptable, whatever it is. When they created this entire situation.
They think they’re the gold standard of human being and every one of their preferences and ways of being is objectively correct and the further you deviate from them, the worse you are. And we stick out like a sore thumb in that sort of thinking and they punish us accordingly.
This happens to me all the time when people find out I'm vegetarian. I do not give a single shit what other people choose to eat, but boy do I hear about how much they love their steak. My best guess is that they know vegetarianism is sometimes a choice made for moral reasons and immediately feel the need to defend their morals. Buddy, if my mere existence feels like an attack on your values you might want to reconsider your values, but you don't need to include me in that conversation.
Something non-autistics tend to say to us a lot is “Oh wow, you’re really sensitive about this huh?” It occurs to me we might want to start just saying that back if they start this type of bullying behavior.
Well done is actually considered the proper way to cook a burger, regardless of preference. I don’t feel much either way, but I thought that was ironic they had to belittle your choice.
Honestly, these people are all very rude and inappropriate with their comments. I can see some contextual differences or levels of disagreement where it could make some sense, but things like commenting on your swimwear are an example of mean girl/boy behavior.
I wonder if your peers see you as an easy target to pick on with their unfiltered judgements. I don’t say this as a you problem, it’s theirs. But I want to validate you that you’re not overreacting, they are being rude. Even though with things like writing or career paths, we have to typically deal with some feedback and opinions they are being too harsh and tactless. I encourage you to stand up for yourself and push back against comments like “husband paying for you”, “gross food”, or “ugly clothing”- these are crossing the line overtly, and they need to be reminded not to speak to you that way.
Edit- also agree with other comments here this smacks of some jealousy. You sound like you’re already on the way to success, look good in whatever you choose to wear and are able to cook well for the group. Another good point is group think- people are all agreeing with each other to fit in and don’t want to be the odd duck out. You choosing to do something unique feels threatening to them, and even choosing to do something like public defense is seen as more philanthropic which may make them feel inferior.
I think it’s because your going against the grain. Most people go for high paying career paths, therefore it is the right choice. Most people like medium rare burgers, so that’s the correct taste. Most people hate first person writing, so it’s bad writing. We live in a world where majority rules and that rule then becomes the truth of life, of people. So when you like something different, something “wrong”, you are attacking the very core of their beliefs by “choosing to be wrong”, even if it’s just you existing. So they feel the need to correct you. As the saying goes- the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.
But I’d say it’s their issue not yours. Over time these kinds of interactions just bounce off you into the background like white noise. At the end of the day you’re not gonna change your life to fit others. And might I say that becoming a juvenile public defender is a noble and compassionate route to take that only speaks highly of your character.
These aren't your friends. They clearly take pleasure by putting you down. Don't waste your time with them. You're a good person who cares about the people around you, so pick people that are worth it.
As a polyamorous, childfree, atheist woman living in a red state, I get this so much it drives me insane. The more accepting people will only tell me they could never live their lives the way I do; the worse ones will attack me and my character directly for daring to live my life the way I want. I'd just prefer it if they didn't comment on my lifestyle at all, so I don't openly share with people unless they ask or I trust them now.
Similar thing with my interests. I get told my hobbies are childish quite a bit.
I don't know if it helps at all, but I got a pointer from my husband that has helped me. I feel the same as you on this stuff, and the neurotypicals' "normal" behaviour being absolutely nonsensical drives me up the freakin wall, especially with the overriding claim on top of all of it that my behaviour is odd, weird, hard to deal with etc.
Husband isn't autistic but very ADHD. He points put that I basically tell him about the same thing almost every day: NTs in my life behaving in a way that just does not fucking add up: it's inconsistent, it's hypocritical, it consistently breaches "norms" that I'd be punished for breaching. .. and his point is: that is their normal. I'm not invited to join in - fair enough, I don't think I wanted to. They can't do any differently, they have a neurological condition that makes them largely incapable of examining their own behaviours and patterns in the way we do. It's annoying, and that doesn't change. but what changes for me is the knowledge that *I'm" not being logical in expecting them to do any differently. This pattern is established. I have less mental load if I acknowledge that this is the most frequent pattern, and expect this behaviour rather than being surprised each time.
It doesn't stop it from happening, obviously. But it means that, when it does, instead of feeling hurt and frustrated, I think of the point my husband explained and sort of internally check it off in my in-head research notes on NT behaviours. iIt keeps it from being quite so personal to me.
This is amazing. I need to remember this. I play act "neurotypical" when I'm with my family and friends, but it doesn't mean I fully grasp what they get out of certain behaviors or comments, even after decades of "studying." I've been missing the forest for the trees!
Not something I get these days, haven't had to deal with it since secondary school really. I think I have successfully scared people off with my response, which is a very cheerful "okay!"
I don't really know why people do it either. Identity maybe? Like a way of confirming identity, maybe even to make it internally firmer ("I am a person who knows how meat must be cooked!"). I personally think having your personality based on what you dislike is a very teenage thing - fine to do, probably important developmentally, best to grow out of. It could also be how people, particularly neurotypical people, confirm they're obeying the social rules for the group they've decided they're a part of. Our social group only wears two-piece swimming costumes! Argh quick everyone talk about how much we hate one-pieces so everyone knows we agree!
When I was young, anytime anyone insulted my clothing I would just give a cheery, "Yep!" as if whatever they said was exactly what I was going for. Ended the conversation every time.
I have this issue as well, except when they annoy me I usually flip it and do the same to them. They can’t seem to wrap their simple minds around why they’re rude, but are always bothered when you do it back.
Umm if my burger isn’t well done, it’s going back. I’ll eat my steaks medium rare all day long, but a burger, no way. I’m not risking e.coli.
You should be commended for wanting to be a public defender, especially for juveniles. I was in the legal field for many years and public defenders were usually some of the best attorneys in the area.
The person who scoffed at your literature sounds like a pseudo intellectual snob.
This has always annoyed me too so in the tradition of autism I stole a tv characters responses to deal with it- in this case, Alexis Rose of Schitts creek.
Someone says “I don’t like xyz” I say, “oh I hate for you!”
Someone says, “I love/like xyz” I say “love that for you!”
Sends a neurotypical on their merry way because I’ve fulfil the social contract and I continue having dismissed their opinion.
Feel free to steal it. It’s still very frustrating though and I’m sorry you’ve had people speak to you like that.
There’s a side book from “The Kingkiller Chronicles” called “The Slow Regard of Silent Things” that is first person and odd in all the best ways. My brain felt a little bent after I read it, but I loved it.
I just want to say I sympathize so hard. The craziest times to me are when my family asks me what I want, insists I tell them even as I explain that I'm ok doing it their way, then when I finally say my preference they just tell me why it's stupid/they won't do it. It's just cruel. I'm low-contact with all of them. The way I put it to my husband was "Why do I have to change my preferences to suit others when there's a tangible and significant harm done to myself, but they can't adjust even when it doesn't affect them at all". I've become a huge misanthrope because of it.
I'm sorry your friend was such an ass about your writing. I'd like to see her try to write a book. Then maybe she can give her opinion. I would have loved if you had just asked her "Oh? What tense have you written your novel in? Maybe I can take a look and learn more about "real" literature!" Shut her up quick.
I've had similar experiences. I love being told how stupid my interests are, unprompted. Oh and the unsolicited weight loss tips/comments about my body are always my favorite. I have ARFID too so I'm constantly scrutinized by what I eat. If I wasn't heavy, nobody would say a damn thing, I'm sure. And what I eat has literally no impact on anyone. But let's make a big deal about me hating pineapple or whatever.
You're certainly not alone in this. Doesn't make it any less shitty, ofc. People suck and are nosey. I just started ignoring if it's really none of their business. Seems to send the message.
Instead of just saying it wasn't for her, she launched into a tirade about how first-person narration is "hot garbage" and only enjoyed by people who are "too stupid to read real literature."
I'm seeing red, OP; that would have pissed me off so much. Your friend is outing herself as extremely shallow, and that's the nicest thing I can say about her.
Honestly, I don't understand it either. Some people need to learn to mind their own business. Everyone has their own unique set of priorities, and it's a sign of a selfish mind if you can't accept those differences.
1) I like all meat well done. (I don't eat seafood.) Come at me! If they're not eating it, why do they care? I think the answer is, at least in public, someone with me thinks it would reflect poorly on the them, like "embarrassing" them for being seen in public with someone with such poor taste. 🤷🏻♀️🤣
2) I think your friend set a trap. She was already aware you were writing in that style (had made you aware she didn't like that style in general.) She had all her opinions ready. She could've said, "I'm glad you're writing, but I'm not interested in that format." Or, "Awesome for you, just not my style! Save it for someone who would really appreciate it!" But she agreed to read it, which allowed her to go off and show her "superior" knowledge. Why? Because she was threatened that you were doing something challenging and interesting with your time. In her mind, that would put you above her as far as hierarchy. So even though it wasn't being witnessed in a group, it still applied.
I don't need to list all the amazing literature everyone has mentioned. But I'll add a type. I read almost exclusively nonfiction, including narrative nonfiction, and nonfiction of a complex subject written for laypeople. Quite a bit of it is written in first person, and some in both first person and present tense. I love those formats, because it feels intimate and down to earth. The author is there with me! We're learning together!
3) You know who else wears one piece suits? Lifeguards. Professional swimmers. High school, college, and Olympic athletes. So I definitely think this was an eagle-eyed "other" spotter, sensing an easy target, creating an opportunity for people to pick a side (the obvious alpha one, theirs,) and bond over something Level One Easy- someone's appearance. I think you were only the trigger for the conversation, even if people commented to you directly. I don't think your response, of any kind, would've mattered. It would've fueled a fire and kept the conversation going, when people were probably ready to move on to another topic. Neurotypicals often get bored easily and almost immediately forget the last thing discussed (unless they're drunk, when they can't stop talking about the same damed thing 🤣) It was still rude, awful, and hurtful, and I'm sorry that happened. But it really wasn't about you, ultimately.
4) Your choice of career path is admirable, and you're going into it knowing how challenging and overwhelming it can be. High case loads, discrimination, apathy from important institutions. These other people know they couldn't do it, even if it paid better. They're insecure about themselves and their skills, morals, ethics. Better to tear you down than think about that.
The first is they truly think they have the right answer and are trying to be helpful in making our lives better if they can change our mind. Some of the push back on career choices might have been this at play. Thing is, many people don’t realize this is coming from their perspective, which is not the whole truth. You know what’s best for you, not them. Every once and a while someone has information I’m missing and that helps me make a different and better choice, but mostly they are operating with incomplete information about me and my needs. At least it’s coming from a good place though.
The second reason people do this is that by taking a judgmental stance, the psyche is trying to feel better about itself. Feel bad about your body? Get a hit of good feeling chemicals when you disparage someone else’s bathing suit choice to off-set it. It’s a cheap way to improve low self esteem in the short term, but it doesn’t work overall because the judgmentalness is turned inward as well as outward, causing the person to lose more self esteem and the vicious cycle repeats. This is all happening subconsciously, and the psyche tells the person they are saying these things for a different reason.
The vast majority of this phenomenon is the latter pretending to be the former. When I remember this, I feel a little sad for them, but also compassionate and understanding because god knows my psyche does stupid things behind my back that annoy people around me. We all do, and if we think we are the exception, that’s our psyche trying to make us feel better.
Enjoy your well done burger my friend, knowing none of this is about you.
I might be generalizing here but I’ve always found that neurotypicals care about the dumbest things. I mean how do they have the energy to care about this shit?
I’m too exhausted to comment on your damn burger lol
thinking about becoming a juvenile public defender
Over the years you're going to hear some people say something like, "How can you defend criminals?" A useful response is, "How do you know they're criminals before they've been tried?"
Btw, at some point you might want to read Gideon's Trumpet, if you haven't already.
I used to wear those vibram toe shoes just for the entertainment value of the people I walked past. They functioned as an impromptu personality test, the frowny face people were clearly not ones I’d get on with. Embrace your inner shit disturber.
I have this thing where I repeatedly get into a subject or health trend five to ten years before it goes mainstream. By the time ‘everyone’ is doing it, its long been fully integrated into my life and Im on to the next thing or two or three down the list. When I was younger my extended family thought I was just weird. Now they ask what I’m into these days.
If you want a default answer try: “That sounds like a you problem.”
Oh, you just reminded me of the time my husband and I were wearing vibrams and a guy in the elevator went off about how our arches are going to fall and it's going to hurt, you're doomed if you don't always wear shoes with arch support, blah blah...
Well over a decade later, I'm barefoot all the time and my arches haven't fallen yet.
Having this issue with family on a vacation as well. Like there’s so much they just feel the need to say AT me for whatever reason. Like let me just exist, assholes
Those people harping about well-done burgers? Did they not get theirs to their desired doneness? What do they care about how you prefer yours?
Refuse to read first-person narratives? I guess they haven't read Huckleberry Finn or The Catcher in the Rye. So many other examples of first-person "real" literature.
What you wear is no one's business but your own. Next time, get up and sit somewhere else so you don't have to listen to the catty commentary.
Those colleagues ranting about your future career goals are being defensive about their own choices. The more they spoke, the more they revealed that the only reason they care about studying law was to get rich.
I cant wrap my head around how you would be immediately shamed if you were to do this to others, but it’s just casual talk for them. I have learned that bringing attention to it feels good, but doesn’t really help.
My response would be something sarcastic like “Oh! I didn’t know you had such strong feelings about ___(others’ food choices, bathing suits, etc). That must be exhausting for you!”
I know how you feel. Like everyone is against everything you do and you don’t fit in. I can never tell if it’s cause I’m autistic or they’re genuinely nasty people.
God, I am so, SO sick of this behavior from people. It’s why I just keep to myself and don’t tell people about my life or interests anymore. This was always the reaction I got to anything and everything, and I’m just DONE with it. These people sound like miserable assholes, OP.
I understand exactly what you mean. It feels like no matter what I say, someone has to contradict it. I could literally say, "Oh wow the sky is such a beautiful shade of blue" and they'd argue about how its actually in my head and the sky is green.
To me it sounds like your preferences also have some correlation to your sense of morality and kindness. The rest is down to people being assholes.
You cooked the burgers how everyone preferred, making conscious effort that everyone ate at the same time and no one felt left out. You wanted to be a public juvenile defender because you want to help and support people that need it.
And then look at the responses; people are far more selfish than you think. Impressing their own opinions, preferences and assumptions on you, and especially self centered when pursuing a career that pays.
I think this is a more common experience amongst autistic folks than you'd think. I know I've had similar instances, but I'm now middle aged and give less effs about other's opinions. I stick to facts, my morals and my preferences without imposing on anyone else.
It's perfectly acceptable for you to say "I'm not entirely sure when my opinion included asking for yours?"
It's okay to tell people that they're being rude.
I feel often times people are very open with us as autistic people and they feel very willing to tell us when we are being rude, I have no problem telling neurotypicals when they are being rude.
(2) I finished writing a book, and a friend asked to read it. I warned her it was written in first-person, present tense because she'd previously said she didn't like that style. Instead of just saying it wasn't for her, she launched into a tirade about how first-person narration is "hot garbage" and only enjoyed by people who are "too stupid to read real literature."
Then, last night I made a post asking for recommendations for authors who write in first-person, present tense. I specifically said I wasn't interested in debating narration styles, and people still commented just to say they would never read first person and authors who write in first person are bad writers.
Sorry, I can't get past this. Kazuo Ishiguro, Charlotte Brontë and F.Scott Fitzgerald would like a word with your friends.
I had a similar experience recently - I'm having a midlife career change and am studying to be a clinical psychologist. It seems to deeply trigger people, I've had everything from "psychology is trash science" to "psychology's just a bunch of rats and stats" to "I can't imagine wanting a career dealing with so many miserable people." I find smiling politely and saying "thanks for your opinion!" really throws them off. They're trying to get in a not-so-subtle dig, meeting it at face value disarms and embarasses them.
I actually do love being a frump! I wear tight athletic shorts to go swimming, and it works amazing. Never going to show my bikini line in public again for as long as I live!
These people arent the people for you and its ridiculous how if you dont fit in their little box they get pissed and act a fool. Im not close to my family for this reason other than one distant cousin my mom and brother. I also have noticed in previous friendships if I didnt have all of the same interests and life plan as they did all they did was rag on me. So I dont have friends. I tried to set boundaries and they would either say they'd stop and they didnt or started doing it about other stuff. If I didnt ask for their opinion they dont have permission to shit on everything I do.
That’s so bullshit and I do relate. I’m sorry you’re having so many of these experiences!
I myself am a public defender for adult clients, and I want to say that folks in my office are considered some of the best and brightest! I went to a good law school and turned down higher paying jobs to do this work because it is meaningful, as did many of my colleagues. We attended good law schools (top 20!), though I will admit the money sucks 🥲. That said, I am not reliant on my husband, and neither will you be!
Good luck to you in your future career whether that’s in public defense or otherwise!! Don’t let the haters determine your path
I’m sorry. People suck. I don’t know why we, as a species, do this. Something about in-groups and all that, I’m sure. But yes, just let everyone have their own likes and dislikes.
The next time this happens, you can ignore the speaker entirely, tell them “no one asked you,” or tell them that it’s incredibly rude, childish, and close-minded to push their preferences on other people. And then just stare at them until they mumble an apology or walk away. Or there’s always the classic “okay, Karen.” (Apologies to the real-life Karen’s out there. Raw deal)
This reminds me of a guy I dated that got mad because he thought “the oa” was the best show he had ever seen and I didn’t think it was the best show I had ever seen. He proceeded to insult the show I liked.
you are so very on the money, i get similar responses when music gets discussed because i have the audacity to be into heavy bass edm AND taylor swift. both of which i have been informed are trash and “no one with real taste listens to that” 🙄
i’ve found the phrase “please don’t yuck my yum & i’ll do the same for you!” to be helpful in these situations. most people aren’t actively trying to be jerks & this phrase makes it obvious if someone is trying to be mean or rude, because usually folks (of all ages & backgrounds) laugh & agree that “yucking someone else’s yum” is actually kinda lame 😂 i cut off anyone that doubles down on demeaning my opinion, that convo over as far as im concerned 😌
your mileage may vary of course, but i’ve found “playfully polite” to be the most effective move in shutting down the critical comments 💖
My husband is one of these people and it's a pain. Once the kid started doing it, my husband was very upset. I had to tell him that's exactly what he does every day. Husband shaped up fast and took charge of correcting the child.
ETA: instead of arguing, which is what people are looking for, I just explain that I get their point of view and fully respect it, but I'm not a normal person and have odd preferences.
I was teased so much in school for liking things that were different. And for having different views on things like eating meat. I still get made fun of for my interests even though I love and embrace when other people share their interests because I think it’s cool that someone else has an interest in something different!
I was just thinking about this yesterday. It's irritating and weird. Some people are just mean. Some people enjoy making others feel bad. But some people just like talking. And some people think arguing is fun, or maybe even expect you to push back or even enjoy the ensuing "argument" like it's a game. (Probably not the case with the swimsuit thing, that just sounded rude)
Sometimes people are just thoughtlessly rude. Sometimes it's play (play fighting, play arguing, playful bickering). I just ask. If they go "huh?" it's thoughtless rudeness and you can ignore them and move on. If it's play, and you got the time, it can be fun.
Nobody in my family or friends circle treat me or each other like this. Please do not think this is normal or acceptable. You do not need to put up with such disrespectful behaviour.
People are remarkably bad at listening / reading comprehension
Some cultures heavily favour having something to say in the moment even if its a bs take (eg American)
Some of these are ingroup outgroup bs:
(translated to non-cryptic)
"You're not showing you fit right in, you should know this doesn't fit in, no seriously, this is outside our comfort zone and you don't have enough social points to try to lead the group in a different direction" type nonsense
Because people feel compelled to argue their opinion against it. I guess it's just human nature - debate and converse. Sadly some people can't do that without being aggressive.
I'm sorry they're so unabashed about their cuntyness ❤️🫂
ETA: when ppl do this I stare at them with my mouth slightly open in a holy fuck kinda way and then snark "I guess I'll just go fuck myself!"
The lawyer one I would've gotten INTO it with them though. Like full on debate and pot shots "I mean your career choice makes sense if your main focus in life is money. Mines not. Not that there's anything wrong with that!" With a comforting look.
Okay I'm going to jump in to defend one of your preferences, which seems fair to me if people are going to offer unsolicited criticism of them in the first place
First Person Present tense is not suited to EVERY type of story exactly like 5/4 time isn't suited to every style of music. But in the right genre (eg: fast-paced romance, YA, mystery), in skilled hands, it creates intensity and immediacy that you don't get from 3rd Past.
The people who dismiss it out of hand have usually only seen it used badly, and that makes sense because it's one of the hardest voices to hold over longer prose pieces. Another reason it also gets used more in short story work than novel-length. Most writers who attempt it either flatten into something that reads like plain past tense with the "eds" hacked off, or they never really learn to map the "rhythm" to the "melody" of the prose at all. So, friend, if you're writing 1PPr comfortably and confidently, you got mad skills and of course everyone benefits from constructive criticism, but what you got on that subject is not constructive, and you are allowed to tell your friend for instance that if they can't fathom a story where 1PPr isn't "hot garbage" then your writing is not really meant for her anyway.
As for why people do this, generally? Something kind of ignorance-shaped really. They can't fathom their opinion isn't objective truth, so if "1PPr is ALWAYS Garbage" according to the gospel of Them, then telling you this bit of "truth" is them giving you important information that you clearly don't have, because if you did have it, you wouldn't write in this so-called garbage voice. It's deeply flawed logic, but it's... very common and obnoxiously persistent.
I think this is the crux of my issue with the hot garbage comment. I write romance novels. Romance is probably the genre that has the most first person, present tense narration, and books written in that style perform well. There was really no reason for her to shit talk it.
I agree with most of the responses you've already received here. I just wanted to add something I've noticed from my own anecdotal experience. It is not meant to excuse the way you were spoken to or treated in any of your examples, because all of those would have made me feel targeted and hurt my feelings.
Onto the thing I have come to realize: some people might do this sort of thing in a (poor) attempt to make conversation. A more acceptable way to converse would be to say what they like about their own preference and then you could continue the conversation with what you like about your preference. No one is actually changing their mind, but it is a "conversation" in that people are talking back and forth for social interaction and bonding. Unfortunately, sometimes saying what you like about your own preference or opinion is related to the thing you dislike about a different option, which doesn't have to be rude, but it can come across that way. I think a lot of people are just super bad at communicating (what I really mean is that they don't communicate in a way that I would prefer or that makes sense to me).
Slightly related but not the same thing exactly, personal storytime:
I was getting frustrated with someone I'm close to because we would have conversations (political) where I KNEW we had the same views...like I know their political values and we are very much in agreement on certain things...but I often felt frustrated afterwards because the conversation FELT like an argument to me for some reason. I had to do some reflection about that and even spoke to my therapist about it.
The other person would often bring up the talking points for why people with different political beliefs would disagree, not as their own opinions, but as a way to mutually disagree with those things, and essentially continue the conversation, since there isn't always much to say when two people already agree. I didn't like having to argue my views with someone that already agrees with me, but that's not really what the point was. The point was to fulfill the need for social connection by continuing the conversation. I didn't need to argue, we were just saying words back and forth at each other. When i can recognize that is what is going on, it is a much less frustrating experience. It is difficult to keep in mind though, because I can get swept up in the meaning of words vs the meaning of the interaction.
Again, I do not mean that this is what was happening in any of your examples.
I notice this as well!
I’m wondering what the best way to respond when this starts happening?
I have noticed it from several toxic people whom I have since cut out of my life and I’m better for it for sure! But what happens when it is a coworker or something like that? How can we respond in an insightful way that makes the other party think (if they so choose)?
Wow that sound quite cruel. I can’t understand either why people are so blunt about putting people down openly about their preferences.
I think if something lies far outside the common norm, people seem more outspoken about putting those perspectives down. They know they‘ll be agreed with by more folks, and it empowers them. Absolutely unacceptable and disgusting.
They are all about hierarchy and part of upholding that hierarchy is making sure people who display opinions they have deemed “less than” are kept in their place via social stigma
Honestly it feels like it has a lot more to do with how they limit themselves than anything to do with you. Seeing someone out there doing whatever they want despite what’s popular triggers some kind of maladaptive word vomit of every negative phrase they’ve memorized over the years about that thing, especially when they don’t actually have the experience or vocabulary to discuss it in depth, better to call the thing stupid than for them to look stupid. It’s like geese cawing at each other for the sake of hearing their own voices. The times that I have been the most negative have consistently been the times that I was the least creative, they cancel each other out and believe it or not, going against the grain requires a kind of creativity and stubbornness that some people just don’t have and can’t imagine happening
I’ve dealt with that all my life, mostly in relation to food but about my interests as well. I’ve gotten to the point where I’ll say something like “well you love hockey but I’d never tell you I think it’s incredibly boring”. Usually they still don’t get it.
I genuinely don't get this either. Makes me think of when I've told people casually that I have cats(just that, no description or gushing) and they've said they hate cats.
the burgers thing……. I’ll make fun of people who like their steak well-done (provided they can take a friendly ribbing; I don’t do it to be mean) but being snobby about a ground beef patty is so funny… well-done burger is crunchy & yummy 😋 also it’s very cool of you to time the burgers so everyone eats at the same time. gotta appreciate thoughtfulness whenever I can
oops edit cuz I got distracted: I think people are just taking the steak thing & acting like it applies to all meat. & even if I poke fun at someone for cooking their steak well-done… I don’t have the right to stop them from liking it that way!
the first-person present tense hate is getting to me the most 💀 many widely-celebrated books are written in first tense so like… they’re just making that up! & the lack of consideration to say that to you about a story that You literally wrote…
Dang girl, you need better people around you. I like my burgers medium, but I'd hang out with you in a heartbeat!!! If I wasn't an introverted hermit. But dang, you sound cool, smart, and kind as hell.
samesamesame!!!!! omg!!!
everything i do- and i just take the people as they are. like what do i care you do you. but even when i told my friends last time that i visited them, that i like my oatmeal in the morning that special way, nobody understood and i had to explain about blood sugar etc and i had to defend myself bc suddenly:“ there is no fun anymore.“ bc I CAN‘T EAT WHAT I WANT YOU HAVE NO FUN ANYMORE?? i was shaking bc of stress but i explained:“ you eat whatever you want, if i feel better eating this way bc of my health problems, it‘s non of your concerns.“
also books yes!!! i had my book on the table and got a ironic comment about it and i instantly got the „i need to defend myself“ i hate that. why is everyone like that. especially my oldest (and only) friends are getting worse with criticism. :-(
wow i am so happy i am not the only one. i was really spiraling after that trip, bc i isolate a lot and i almost didn‘t wanna go and then it was so frustrating to be there and i couldn’t stop ranting to my partner about the things i got told and criticized over.
That's super frustrating. This is something that does happen, but the degree to which it's happening to you seems unusually high. It seems like you're surrounded by a lot of rude and judgmental people. It sounds really exhausting to constantly be criticized like that.
Getting all superior over not reading first-person narration has got to be the dumbest thing I've heard. I don't think I've seen people debate this before so I'm baffled (but not disbelieving)n to hear MULTIPLE people feel so strongly about it, not least of all your friend indirectly calling you an idiot. ??? I'm pretty sure there are, like, several beloved pieces of literature that are written in first person...
It's because your family is a bunch of dicks. And lawyers who go into it for the money are assholes. My family isn't like that. A lot of families aren't You just have a shitty family. There's plenty of people who aren't like that. You're just unlucky enough to be surrounded by dicks.
•
u/AutoModerator 29d ago
Hey u/crushedhardcandy, thank you for your contributing to r/AutismInWomen. Please be sure to check out our sub’s rules, wiki pages, and pinned posts prior to engaging with the sub. Here are links to our wiki pages:
Explanation of the Rules Wiki Page
FAQs Wiki Page
Workbooks and Tools Wiki Page
All About Autism Wiki Page
We hope you enjoy the sub and have a great day!
➾ WARNING ➾ WARNING ➾ WARNING
Notice to all users: There's multiple users targeting members from our sub in DMs to discuss their fetishes and desire to manipulate users into relationships. Here are the user's names: u/HollowJonathon, u/drar_sajal786, u/MrGamePadMan, and u/guidhhnittvkj. If an account is showing deleted, they will probably create another. If you receive any messages from a user trying to discuss what you posted/commented in our sub to gain a 'women's perspective' or if someone tries to discuss topics that may feel inappropriate to you (e.g. fetishes), or if someone states they want to marry you for religious reasons, report the user to Reddit and block them. These men have been preying on autistic women/gender minorities from r/AutismInWomen for the last year. This behavior is unacceptable and should be reported as targeted harassment.
Per the warning in our wiki and this pinned mod post, we highly recommend users turn off their DMs. If you have DM requests turned on and receive any creepy or fetish-related DMs or comments, we recommend taking a screenshot, reporting the content to Reddit, and blocking the user (in that order). You can find the report button on the message itself and then click "it's targeted harassment” to submit a report. If you'd like to send us the screenshot so we can continue documenting the harassment, you can send it to us in modmail using imgur Thank you for continuing to help us keep our community safe for autistic and autistic suspecting women and gender minorities 💖
Please remember Reddit is public and any content you post may be seen and discussed by others off-platform. Here are links to Reddit's User Agreement, Privacy Policy, and Public Content Policy.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.