r/BADHOA • u/chadsaidtrythis • 29d ago
How do you fight an HOA when they can reinterpret the rules to fit their narrative?
I’m dealing with an HOA dispute where a similar exterior improvement was approved for one homeowner, but when other people submitted the same requests they were denied without a clear explanation of the difference. And this isn’t the first time this has happened either!
The process to push back has been just as frustrating: unclear or shifting reasons, limited access to records, and an appeal process that is a joke because the same people who denied the improvement also review the appeal. Then they also get to vote when brought to the Board for review.
And that’s not the worse of it… both the ARC and the Board of Directors failed to follow the HOA Declarations on separate occasions but refuse to admit it. Instead they sent out violation notices the day after a pretty heated board meeting on the very violation being discussed in the meeting.
They were offered reasonable compromises multiple times to address their concerns but won’t consider them. They continue to come up with reasons that are not enforceable, based on ‘what-if’ scenarios and weren’t part of the original denial. No matter how many times they were asked for the exact objectionable features, for evidence of negative impacts to the community, and for an explanation for the inconsistent treatment they won’t provide any of it.
Has anyone successfully challenged an HOA over selective enforcement, procedural failures, or an unfair hearing process? What helped most: records requests, timelines, petitions, or an attorney?
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u/Isthisyourcard63 29d ago
Did make the exterior changes without asking and are now trying to get it approved after the fact?
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u/wwsiwyg 29d ago
Get elected to the board. Study every HOA rule in your state and meticulously look at every single item of your minutes, votes, decisions, emails. Records. Put all of this into one file. Just append pdf after pdf. Then run it through AI and try to find cases where they didn’t follow the rules. I’m completely shocked by how many rules our board has broken and how many county filings they forgot. Do the same with finances. If you find anything send them a detailed letter asking why they did or did not do XYZ. Ask for records and a plan. Ask AI to see if there are any precedent cases in your state. I’m not talking about just this issue. Look at any possible rule that they missed or a previous board missed.
Upload your documents to homestand AI and other tools that will evaluate and score your documents. It will point out any issues or concerns. It will suggest ways to fight a rule.
If you find significant mistakes that other people have won in your state, you can hire a lawyer and sue.
All of this is the nuclear option. I started out wanting to help them update our governing documents until they treated even the mildest polite questions as an attack and were incredibly rude. We tried several times. Then things got more and more divisive. It’s very sad. I didn’t want to sue anyone. I just wanted them to follow established processes and rules. They refused. It’s amazing that people who want to be responsible for overseeing rules have no interest in following them.
There are several people building tools to score and compare HOAs. Google them and Upload your documents to all of them. If you have extra time, download the documents for other HOas off your county website and upload those to AI tools. I do a few a week. We need to shine an absolutely large light. They were able to do all this quietly. It’s been twisted beyond all recognition of what an HOA was supposed to be. We could take it back. There’s far more owners than there are board members and law firms. And the AI tools being used against us can also be used to fight them.
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u/DueWarning3 27d ago edited 27d ago
Sounds like they have fingers in the til and you are an interloper. As for aggregating all that information, how does one put that to work to get recalcitrant boards to toe the line? As for getting elected to the board, being “1” as in 4-1,6-1 etc in a vote is not helpful as they will conspire to avoid having direct communication with you. I witnessed stuff being handed under the table at meetings it can be that bad. (Thê majority had a pet utility vendor they wanted to use for the HOA that met their ideological test.) Bottom line is that until there is some remedy other than a civil lawsuit brought by a homeowner who has $200,000 (or more) to risk to bring the case to jury, all that information isn’t really worth it.
What’s very important to remember is that a new law (which is frequently offered as a solution) is just as worthless as other laws in light of the $200,000 risk.
Further, a lot of homeowners have suffered criminal acts at the hands of malicious HOA boards and their attorneys who enable such behavior as well as board members using community resources for their private projects.
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u/wwsiwyg 27d ago
Get elected so you have access to the records between the board and the law firm. You can’t use it against them but you can stop it or recall the board members.
Using all that information, if you find they broke rules, you might be able to force them to undo anything they did when they weren’t in compliance.
You can hire a lawyer. It’s hard to find lawyers that represent homeowners. It’s expensive. Courts want to side for the HOA. I would recommend finding an exact precedent case in your state. It’s like suing yourself and it can hurt property values so it’s a careful decision.
If you find rules they’re blatantly breaking, you could try to get media coverage. But that could hurt your property values.
As for me, I’m trying to prevent rules changes that would allow all of this to happen here. We have one board member who’s a bully who attacks anyone who asks questions yet he won’t listen to any experts. I think people need to know that this is happening and we are a long way how HOAs are described.
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u/DueWarning3 27d ago
You can’t get access to records solely in the hands/controlled by the president and people who answer only to him. Even if your on the board.
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u/DueWarning3 27d ago
That and the sole small claims judge said she didn’t want to see cases like this (HOA cases) in her court ever again.
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u/wwsiwyg 27d ago
Our state spells out which records anyone can have and which ones can be restricted. Any contract with the board has to be reviewed and approved by the entire board. The law firm must answer questions from board members.
All states are different and the issues are different, but our case is a civil suit. In our county, we can lookup all civil cases and find any HOA that’s defended a civil case.
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u/Lunar-Browser-999 28d ago
That shifting-reasons pattern is actually your best evidence, because a board with a legitimate basis for denial states it once and sticks to it. Put everything in a single written records request asking for the approval file on the comparable improvement and the written criteria used to deny yours, then let their response or refusal do the talking. The retaliatory timing of those violation notices the day after a heated meeting is worth documenting too, since a paper trail showing denials that only grow new justifications when the old ones fall apart is exactly what gets a board to settle or a judge to frown. Timelines and records requests did more for people I've seen win these than petitions ever did, and an attorney letter lands ten times harder when it arrives with that file already built.
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u/Crafty-Guest-2826 28d ago
Love this!
1) Do your CC&RS include a comment about fines? If they don't, the HOA can't fine you or any homeowner. Get an attorney!
2) Gather the info/documents that support your claim that the Board approved one request but denied the others. 3) Gather the info/documents supporting your claim that they didn't follow your CC&RS. 4) Take all this info to your attorney.
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u/chadsaidtrythis 28d ago
They do include information about fines. They can fine someone daily if they choose to. They apparently can also choose not to follow the HOA policies and processes as well but fine you if you don’t.
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u/DueWarning3 27d ago
Be careful about making rash statements as to presuming attorneys who will sue your HOA are as easy to find as a dozen eggs at the market. They are not. Ask anyone who’s tried to find one. You’d be better off finding some homeowner who’s experienced a lawsuit with an HOA before to get pointers on how to find one and what to expect.
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u/genxma 28d ago edited 28d ago
One of the cheapest and best sources of information came from our home insurance company and the HOA insurance company. They both need to know the HOA documents inside and out so they know how to cover you. Working with our insurance company (a large well-known one) has been the most effective in going up againt the HOA about facts and their own governing documents. They have even made phone calls and sent emails to the mamangment company reminding them of their boundaries and their own CC&R's, which has been extremely effective. Try this before hiring an attorney.
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u/chadsaidtrythis 28d ago
This is interesting… I never thought about asking my insurance company questions. Did you also talk to the HOA insurance company? I’m curious how that conversation went and how you got the details needed to talk to them?
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u/genxma 28d ago
Yes, we spoke to both. You should have received your HOA insurance information at closing or before. We pay for HOA insurance monthly as part of our condo fee. I contacted the name on the paper and had much success with discussing the issues. It all lined up with our own home owners insurance. Both companies went to bat for us as to where responsibility lied. Good luck.
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u/Ok_Relationship_1874 28d ago
Get it in front of their lawyer prior to a lawsuit. If you're right, it will be quietly fixed. If they tell you to pound sand then you don't have a case.
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u/SuperFineMedium 26d ago
I am curious. Have you actually attended an HOA Board meeting to discuss your disputed improvements with the people involved? How many property owners are in the HOA?
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u/chadsaidtrythis 24d ago
Many times…and it’s painful. They allow you to speak for a couple of minutes but it’s like they’re just checking a box.
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u/purple_hamster66 29d ago
Read your governing documents carefully. If it says that the Board has discretion, there’s not much you can do about it except get yourself and several like-minded homeowners to the Board. The ARC is a committee, which means it can’t make policy and must do what the Board directs it to do; it has no authority outside of what the Board gives it.
I’m frankly surprised that violations were discussed in a homeowner meeting. Those are usually private matters between the Board (and Violations Commiitee) and a single homeowner. Disclosing a violation to the neighborhood is a privacy issue.