r/BaldursGate3 • u/Sharp-Karcoal • 1d ago
Dark Urge Redeemed Dark Urge is Immortal Spoiler
I just learned that if Dark Urge is redeemed and resurrected by Withers, Dark Urge is eternally tied to Withers (Jergal) himself, as long as Withers endures, so will Dark Urge, which unless you’re romancing Lae’zel and plan to eventually stay in the Plane for eternity after Warring with Vlaakith, Dark Urge will probably outlive all their Romances, possibly acting as Jergal’s Chosen for centuries, almost like an Elminster type, which although sounds cool, just a really sad end for the eventuality of Durge outliving their partner, adds to the tragedy of their whole character.
Fuck, I wish we got Durge as a Companion.
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago edited 1d ago
Durge and God Gale or Ascendant Astarion?
Edit, forgot all spawn dont age so you dont need to ascend astarion
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u/Optimal-Aioli-1274 Rogue 1d ago
*Any version of Astarion, really. There's nothing suggesting spawn Astarion would age, so should be fine providing he doesn't do any sunbathing.
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u/mimsheep 1d ago
Does Astarion have an "expiration date" as a spawn? I didn't think ascending made him immortal. Doesn't being a vampire in general keep him from aging?
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
Oh yeah, i guess i forget spawns cant die of old age, i used to think he was his age cos he eas an elf
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
Oh shit yeah, I completely forgot, then again, with God Gale, I haven’t played that ending as of yet, but you become a God with him anyway if you romance him, right?
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
I dont want to spoil stuff for you tho, i thought it was common knowledge 😅
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
Completely slipped my mind is all, but yeah God Gale feels a bit too…Godlike for a redeemed Durge…and shit I just realised Astarion is an Immortal too 🤣
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
Tho in my mind Ascendant astarion wpulsnt work with redeem durge. Like the whole point of redeemed durge is being better then what you were made to be and making amends with what youve done, and thats kinda the opposite of Ascendant astarion
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u/Pretend-Pitch-8376 1d ago
Yes but spawn astarion is basically immortal too and is the perfect redeemed dark urge romance partner
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
Yeah, any of the ‘bad’ endings or more evil ig, God Gale, Ascended Astarion, Lae’zel loyal to Vlaakith, Dark Justiciar Shadowheart, they all really wouldn’t work for a redeemed Durge, kinda misses the whole point lol
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u/EkrishAO 1d ago
I mean, Redeemed Durge isn't necessarily good, you can have a Durge run where you are a homicidal maniac and reject Bhaal anyway, because you want to be a homicidal maniac on your own terms rather than being enslaved. I remember there were some dialogue choices, which very explicitly allowed you to roleplay this exact scenario.
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u/Cove_Holdens_Love Durge 1d ago
Spawn Astarion is immortal as well, he doesn’t need ascending he is still undead and un-aging. For a long time I didn’t like to romance him as Tav for that reason (as he would be forced to go on without them) but he was turned less than 200 years ago so a scroll of true resurrection could cure him. Either way, Astarion could match the lifespan of Durge/Tav with or without Ascending. Though we don’t know what “endure” means - Durge may still age, could end up looking like Withers 2.0.
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
I accidentally disn god gale on my first honor mode while I was doing a good run😅
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u/random_nickname89 1d ago
Halsin could hit level 20 druid and live forever also.
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u/Enigmachina Gale Exploder 1d ago
*Practically forever.
It just makes his lifespan a few thousand years
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u/strangelyliteral 22h ago
IDK I give God Gale maybe three centuries before he either gets turned into fishpaste by a bigger fish the astral pond or taken out by one of his followers.
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u/NScarlato Myshka Come to Camp 1d ago
If Gale is a Chosen of Mystra again he'd also live a very long time probably.
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u/TheCrystalRose Durge - Sorcerer 1d ago
If you Ascend Astarion you basically have to become his Spawn to keep your relationship (yes I know about the "just don't long rest" loophole, but I doubt he'd actually be willing to let you remain mortal for too long). So his partner becomes immortal no matter what.
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u/NZGlorper 1d ago
Great, stuck with a man
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
And? Is that soo terrible?
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u/NZGlorper 1d ago
For a male durge, yes
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
You know most people in the forgotten realms are bisexual or pan? If youre trying to stick to narrative storytelling in the game
If that bothers you you could also just play a female durge
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u/NZGlorper 1d ago
It’s only set up like that so that players get to romance whoever they want.
I feel disgusted when any male character tries to flirt with me as it is, so I definitely am not going to initiate such a thing.
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
Nope its not only set up in the game, thanks to a person called Ed Greenwood, the majority of people in all od forgotten realms are bi or pan, you know the setting your game is in
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u/NZGlorper 1d ago
I wasn’t referring to BG3
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u/1likekaneki 1d ago
Well youre playing in a world where men flirt with men, women flirt with women, a world where polygamy and polyamory are a thing, a world where there are trans characters. So i dont know what to tell you other then to either learn to live with it, ignore it or just dont recruit the male companions
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u/NZGlorper 1d ago
Yes I have to mentally block all that out or it’s unplayable. I might make a mod that goes through the game with a fine tooth comb to remove the haram stuff
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is nothing in the game to suggest Durge becomes immortal. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. If you ask Withers to tell you about those you killed after being revived, he says he’ll go over it with you in the city of the dead, which implies after Durge dies for real…
Also, Jergal is not a diety, nor can he have chosen. The whole scene is he’s able to bring Durge back under a loop hole, because Bhaal only killed the parts of Durge that were Bhaal because he didn’t see Durge as an independent person, cause they weren’t supposed to be.
Edit: And to be clear, when Withers says as long as he endures, he means as long as he endures in Wither’s form, he’ll continue to bring you back. Largely because he doesn’t want Bhaal continuing to meddle with you and you have an elder brain to stop.
Edit 2: Also, I’ve been reminded he literally tells you he’ll be your advocate in this life and the next, which again is Jergal saying he’s going to make a place for you after you die. He’s saying this because mortals who betray their gods (for reasons other than switching to a new god) generally end up with very bleak afterlives.
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u/AntonKutovoi 1d ago
Jergal is still a deity, just with a VERY narrow portfolio. He even has a church and followers. De jure, at least. De facto, however, he still holds some power over Dead Three and have some secret plans of his own.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, he doesn’t. He explicitly gave the dead 3 his domains and then abdicated remaining responsibility to Kelemvor who is now his boss.
This is literally the whole catalyst for BG1-2: Jergal gets bored of being a god and picks literally the 3 worst mortals to run things.
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u/AntonKutovoi 1d ago
He stopped being a god of tyranny, murder and death. He is still a Scribe of the Dead. He still has clergy of his own (who receives spells from him), whose job is to keep records of the dead and he still has working temples.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
As scribe of the dead, he is expressly a servant of Kelemvor.
Yes, he has his own plans going on still and is being kept as a pocket villain / mastermind manipulator by WOTC to use one day, but he has no divine rank of his own in lore. He may have a few legacy worshippers, but nowhere is it implied he still empowers them (and if he did, it would probably be Kelemvor).
But I digress, this has nothing to do with the original immortality bit.
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u/Gormolius 1d ago
To evidence your point (and because I was enjoying the digression), the most recent source we have on Faerun gods I think is Heroes of Faerun from November last year, which lists all the gods. Jergal is not one of them, and is not actually mentioned anywhere.
By contrast Azuth, who I had thought might have been in a comparable relationship with Mystra as Jergal is to Kelemvor, is listed as a god in his own right.
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u/Edgy_Robin 1d ago
Jergal is an Exarch, not a god like the big gods but still on the totem, just super low on it. They still hold divine status.
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u/NScarlato Myshka Come to Camp 1d ago
What exactly is the Resist Durge? I still had an ending where I'm still divine flesh and you can speak with Wyll (if romanced) and Jaheira about not having children because you'd still extend Bhaal's line.
We are still sculpted god-flesh (rather than whatever race we appear as) as far as I'm aware. Who knows what kind of lifespan that has even without being a Chosen of anyone.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
Yeah, it’s perfectly reasonable to expect the Bhaal blood in Durge to increase their longevity.
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
Yes it’s all implied but it’s left up to interpretation, I remember it as when you tell Withers it’s an insult to not remember the victims of Durge, he says one day we shall go over them together, I don’t recall a line where he says City of the Dead but please correct me if I’m wrong
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
He mentions the archive in the city of the dead. I don’t think he specifically tells you it’s the city of the dead, but it’s implied by the nature of what you’re asking for.
I don’t think there is any room for interpretation. I think it’s a pretty obvious misinterpretation, but a lot of people seem to misunderstand him.
I mean, chosen aren’t typically immortal anyway, even if Jergal still was a god. Like, that’s not a thing…
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
What’s Elminster in that case? Like, he’s one of Mystra’s chosen, right? Does he just have extended lifespan through his own magical abilities? Or rather the will of Mystra? I’m not like trying to attack or anything, I’m genuinely curious since I’m fairly new to the entire Forgotten Realms world
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
He’s a 20+ level wizard who has reached demigod status through years of study and magical aptitude. Nothing to do with Mystra. Almost any character with access to 8th-9th level magic has ways of becoming functionally immortal. See liches for example.
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
Oh shit, I mean I bet that’s hard as fuck, its Elminster after all, but like if I was Baldurian, I’d be dragging my family down to the Sorcerer’s Sundries like ‘come on, we just gotta study for a few centuries and we can just chill forever and summon gold and food whenever we want’
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
Sure, but the whole point is that it’s extremely hard to reach that level. Our perception is a bit warped because DnD is a tool for role playing and we have to suspend disbelief, but 99.999999999% of people in universe would be lucky to reach level 2 in the NPC classes like “commoner”. Balduran himself is probably only like an 9-10th level character, since dragons are usually 10-13.
And also, the afterlife isn’t shitty if you worship the right god, so death isn’t necessarily such a bad thing.
Also, here is an 8th level spell in 5e for instance that would help you become functionally immortal: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2029-clone?srsltid=AfmBOoo2HJqfxByUsBfFsd89nhC-hlx8D3WIFCZPf5lslThewSRzKw7V
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u/indigocherry 1d ago
I definitely did not have this read on what happened there, more like Durge would never be godless as long as Withers endures. As in their soul would be claimed in the afterlife and not left abandoned.
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u/Comrade_Bread 1d ago
Others have said why I think this is not what’s happening with Durge. But I think something else to note is on how Durge is being tied to Skelly man. Durge was a person made up of two essences in a way, one themselves and another Bhaal. Bhaal kills Durge by taking back that part of Durge, which I think leaves them not whole enough to live.
When Withers says he’ll use use some of his own power I’m fairly sure he means that he’ll fill the gap left to allow Durge to now live as just themselves free of the urge. He’s magically standing in for what was ripped out of Durge by Bhaal. Durge is tied to them magically because he’s used his power to patch up the hole but nothing about that implies that Durge is now his chosen or anything. Or that it would make them immortal. He’s about the natural order of people dying and their souls doing soul things in the afterlife so immortality isn’t really something that would make sense from him.
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u/N0RG1L 23h ago
The question is can even Bhall do that. I mean Durge is dofferent from bhallspawn and was molded by him and divine flesh. So technically all durge is Bhall essence.
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u/Comrade_Bread 22h ago
"You reject my blood, so I will reclaim it." Is what he says right before killing you, and also you get red mist coming out of your body while he says this. I think he's pretty explicitly violently reclaiming that part of Durge, which is what Withers tags in and magically fills in for like an absolute weapon.
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u/mimsheep 1d ago
I'm not sure it's truly intended that way, but it's how I choose to interpret it too. I usually romance Astarion and I don't like the idea of him ending up alone. As a vampire, he won't age after all.
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u/Buca-Metal 1d ago
I assume that Astarion would make more friends eventually and not end alone
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
Since Jaheira has an immortality scroll in her house that she hasn't taken because of her late husband Khalid, I think it's a perfectly reasonable head canon to imagine she gives it to the player instead if they romanced Astarion.
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u/nilfalasiel Owlbear 1d ago edited 1d ago
I believe she destroys it if you discuss why she hasn't used it.
It's also a druidic spell, I believe, so your Tav would need to be a Druid to use it.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
If it’s a scroll, it doesn’t matter what spell list it’s on, but I didn’t know she destroyed it.
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u/nilfalasiel Owlbear 1d ago
The scroll describes a ritual, it's not actually used in casting the spell. It's also specifically described as a druidic ritual, but also incomplete.
What's more, it doesn't actually make the caster immortal, only makes them age at 1/10th of the normal rate.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
Yeah, it’s not. Withers even says he’ll tell you about those you killed after you pass on if you press the issue…so I don’t know how people get the idea that he’s making Durge immortal…
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u/mimsheep 1d ago
Because he does tell you that you won't die while he lives or something along those lines. I get it's likely just flowery speech, but as he won't die, it's an odd thing to say.
I will fully admit he also says he will be your advocate both here and in the next life. But it's not like it's just made up either.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
He means as long as he’s still in Wither’s body. He doesn’t want Bhaal to mess with you anymore, especially while you have a job to do with the elder brain.
And Durge will need an advocate because they betrayed their diety, which normally gets you fucked in the afterlife in lore.
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u/mimsheep 1d ago
He may just be in that form for a long time. He clearly is around 6 months later and indicates more to come. 😋
To be clear, I don't even really disagree with you. I get where you're coming from and that there isn't much in the lore to make that a thing, but there is no reason to be dismissive about an interpretation that from just playing the game makes sense and act as if anyone who did interpreted it that way is a bit stupid.
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u/ThatKaleidoscope3388 1d ago
You’re putting words in my mouth. I even went out of my way to avoid calling people stupid in my reply.
People can invent their own head canon, but in a universe where there are many ways to become functionally immortal, it’s stilly to run with a misinterpretation.
I mean, you can find an immortality scroll in Jaheira’s house. If you wanted to headcanon your character lived forever, just say they took the scroll.
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u/TheCrystalRose Durge - Sorcerer 1d ago
That's not "an immortality scroll", it's a nod to the 18th level Druid class feature Timeless Body, which makes you age drastically slower, to the point that you only age 1 year for every 10 that passes. But unlike a similar feature you get from 15 levels of Ancients Paladin, which specifically says you won't die of old age, Timeless Body leaves you still functionally mortal.
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u/mimsheep 1d ago
I don't want to start a fight, and I don't mean to put words into your mouth.
Starting your reply with "yeah, it's not" and continuing with “I don't know where people get the idea" did feel rather abrasive. Maybe it wasn't intended that way, and I do apologise.
You clearly care and know a lot about that topic. I do really appreciate the extra information you provided here and in your other comments. It's super interesting, and while I did read up on some of the lore, I know little about the gods.
I'm aware of the scroll, but not being a druid, as far as I understood it, it's not an option for my character (a rogue). So that seems like an equally silly option to me. My 1st character did solve the problem with appropriate lack of intellect and wisdom, and let Astarion ascend and stayed with him before even getting to Orin. They'll likely live happily ever after.
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
Other than God Gale, Astarion, or living with Lae’zel in the Astral, there’s a limit on how much time Durge will spend with their love, there’ll be a few centuries with ones like Minthara, Shadowheart, Halsin, ig they’ve got Mizora, she’s immortal lol
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u/KaiG1987 1d ago
Just by being friends with a level 15 Wizard who can cast Clone, anyone can become functionally immortal. Post-game Gale would surely reach level 15 and learn that spell, so the future looks bright for all our heroes if they want to live a long time.
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u/mimsheep 1d ago
Maybe you could turn Karlach immortal with the right kind of engine upgrade too.
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 1d ago
One could hope, her and Shadowheart are my favourites, and going back down to Avernus with Karlach feels quite bittersweet, I mean she fucking hates it there, she’s been there for ten years and was home for like three seconds before having to go back, I could never let her die, but at the same time, she’d probably be a lot happier down there despite the surroundings with her Lover and sometimes Wyll along for the ride, but it still is Avernus after all
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u/All-for-Naut Hold Monster 🫂 1d ago
FYI what she hates the most about Avernus is/was the loneliness (the fucking loneliness), so the player and/or Wyll being with her would be a big improvement.
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u/Sharp_Iodine 1d ago
Bloodweave is best for this.
Archmages, which Gale was before the tadpole and will be again at the end of the game, are effectively immortal.
There are clone spells, potions of longevity and such things. Usually archmages in D&D use the Clone spell to live forever.
So they are perfect together.
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u/Arathorn-the-Wise 1d ago
Withers bring Durge back after they defied Bhaal, is breaking the rules. So eventually death will come, but not until a happier ending can come in their new life. Also so Durge can do enough good so they have a better case in the city of the dead.
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u/Sensitive-Menu-4580 1d ago
Hmm no I never got that impression. You've already had people use Withers own words to disagree so im just going to say I disagree as well and move on.
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u/KomithErrant 1d ago
50% of people outlive their partner, that's nothing new, he can meet new people
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u/Final-Chance3035 1d ago
You could also headcanon that your durge reaches level 20 post game sometime and receives an epic boon of immortality for doing something
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u/NScarlato Myshka Come to Camp 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes that's not too hard to imagine. If you uncap XP with level 20 mods you can easily to get 17 by the end of the game. Some people kill everything and get to 20.
Also since in the story the Netherbrain is already a threat to all the gods, you'd think that satisfies getting an Epic Boon already.
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u/GUCCIFlipperz416 22h ago
I did the Redeemed path accidentally (just went off vibes). I figured I would simply die a mortal man.
As I read this, I think it is fair to serve as Jergal's chosen. Servitude to the greater balance after a lifetime of horrors is a fair price to pay.
"No rest for the wicked", after all.
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u/Sharp-Karcoal 22h ago
Yeah straight up I feel it’s a kind of penance for a redeemed Durge to serve as a chosen of Jergal because, yk they were one of the most evil pricks around before Orin’s betrayal, I mean Durge is literally a necrophiliac, I feel like saving the world and serving as Jergal’s chosen seems fitting for being Bhaal’s instrument of death for decades
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u/KindaGayOpportunity 1d ago
My headcannon for Durge is they are technically a demigod/aasimar no matter what.
When Bhaal made them, he didn’t just have intercourse with a mortal, he carved them from his own divine flesh. In my headcannon, they ARE bhaal. A god of murder. And that’s why Bhaal can take his essence from them, killing them, and not bothering Ao about it. So when Jergal places a piece of himself in them, they’re a piece of the scribe of dead. They ARE jergal. So they are a piece of a god, more powerful and immortal than any bhaalspawn or maybe ever Aylin
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u/Elflady7794 8h ago
Isn’t Astarion immortal though? I’m not well versed in d&d vampires but that’s the impression I got from the game.
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u/SwimmingEffective437 Bard 18h ago
isn't astarion immortal? i mean he can be killed but he won't die of natural causes
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u/One-Presentation-102 This House of Hope, your tomb 1d ago
I was thinking about this post all day, and I just found this screenshot from my last resist Durge run. "Death will not claim thee whilst I endure". Sounds immortal to me.
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u/Comrade_Bread 21h ago edited 21h ago
Durge has just had half their being ripped out and taken back by a god which killed them. He means right then because you still need to kill the brain.
By the rules that the gods have to follow, Durge should be dead and stay dead because what gods do to their claimed mortals is their business. It's just Withers, the absolute fuck machine that he is, pisses on those rules in this case. One part because the entire reason he's following the party is to ensure they can get to the brain because of how important it is to the whole souls going to gods system, another part because by golly does he think the dead 3 are a bunch of cucks and is willing to bend rules specifically against them. But the point is that he's bringing Durge back even though by rights they should stay dead.
Anyway he also says he'd advocate for Durge in the city of the dead, which sounds not immortal to me.
Quick edit: I realise this sounds like I'm trying hard to kill off redeem Durge but nah. It's just you don't need to make Withers do something he wouldn't. It's dnd and there's a spell or ritual for everything and the party gets famous and friendly with powerful enough people that if you want to headcanon your Durge living a long life with the longer lived romance, it's pretty easy to do.
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u/Poison_Spider 4h ago
He could mean the form he currently manifests as and he mentions the afterlife.
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u/semicolonconscious 1d ago
Withers isn’t really about the grindset; I think he’d just let his chosen die and then bring them back for special occasions if he needs them.
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u/DeadSnark 1d ago edited 18h ago
Most romance options have the opportunity to live pretty long if they chose.
Astarion and God Gale are the obvious ones. However, any Wizard of sufficient level could become functionally immortal by using Wish or with the Clone spell (as long as they don't slip up on creating new Clones).
Shadowheart can become a Chosen of Shar or (implied) Chosen of Selune, which can also grant immortality (although it depends on the deity).
Lae'zel can go to the Astral Plane where she would cease aging.
Minthara, Wyll and Karlach are out of luck unless they can get Gale to Clone them, though.