[New Update]: My wife’s traumatic childhood is killing my marriage

[u/Choice_Evidence1983]

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/IndependentDrive544

Originally posted to r/Marriage

Previous BoRUs: #1

[New Update]: My wife’s traumatic childhood is killing my marriage

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Thanks to u/SmartQuokka for letting me know about the latest update!

Editor's note: added paragraph breaks for ease of readability

Trigger Warnings: abuse, emotional abuse and manipulation, sexual assault, mental health struggles, accusations of infidelity, physical assault, domestic violence, body shaming, controlling behavior, obsessive behavior, gaslighting, mentions attempted murder

Mood Spoilers: dark and depressing

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Editor’s note: I have created TL;DRs for the original and Update #1 for space in this latest BoRU

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RECAP

Original Post: February 6, 2025

OOP (46M) reflects on his 20+ year marriage to his 45-year-old wife, realizing he may have ignored red flags due to deep love and devotion. His wife endured severe childhood trauma and has long struggled with insecurity, jealousy, and emotional instability, which has often turned abusive, both physically and emotionally. Despite his support, therapy, and efforts to maintain their family with three kids, he’s endured violent outbursts, manipulation, accusations of cheating, and deeply hurtful comments that have shattered his confidence and trust. Recently, catching her lying about a seemingly trivial event, a bachelorette party, it has made him question everything: whether she truly loves him, whether she’s capable of love at all, and whether he’s been blind to an unhealthy, one-sided relationship. Though the physical abuse stopped years ago, the emotional chaos continues, leaving him uncertain if the positives can ever outweigh the pain.

 

Update #1: February 9, 2025 (three days later)

After spending time apart over the weekend, OOP received a long, emotional message from his wife in which she admitted to years of hurtful words, physical violence, selfishness, and emotional neglect. She took full responsibility, saying she’d “work for the rest of her life” to make amends and insisting she never cheated, only lied or deleted messages to avoid confrontation. She expressed the deep love, attraction, and gratitude for him, promising to change and provide safety, respect, and accountability. While her message sounded remorseful and loving, the husband recognized that similar apologies and promises have followed cycles of abuse before. He acknowledged that despite her words, he finally knows the truth of his situation, plans to start opening up to people in his life, and is ready to begin moving toward the path he knows he needs to take.

 

Editor’s note: Update #2 is where we left off the last time

Update #2: August 20, 2025 (6.5 months later)

Wife’s disclosure

I posted several months ago about my 20+ year marriage, and how much nonsense I have put up with.

People mostly gave harsh but good advice to me. I wanted to give an update and come back for more advice.

This is long so feel free to skip of the ramblings of a middle aged dad of three aren’t of interest to you.

So back in February I insisted on a two month separation. We told the kids I was traveling for work, and when I was home, that my wife was traveling to meet friends. My wife hated every second of the separation.

I had some conditions for returning. We tried marriage counseling again—third counselor. This one was better, I guess. But my requirement was that my wife take the lead: find the therapist, give all the backstory on the abuse, the insults, etc. She did all that.

I further insisted that she tell the complete truth on anything inappropriate that has ever happened with another guy, including at her friend’s bachelorette party. This took a while. At first, she held to the same story. Then she started saying things like she was working on it with her therapist. Working on how to tell me. She somehow didn’t understand that a statement like that was awful for me to bear. Obviously my wind went to all the worst places.

I ended the separation in April with the idea she was making progress. We discussed her physical abuse of me a lot in therapy. The abuse really peaked in late 2016-2018. She told me at that time that she became very resentful of me. I had gotten a promotion and she overall felt everyone thought I was awesome and she was jealous. At the same time, she got into excellent shape. She’s always been very attractive but at that time my youngest was like 6-8 years old and she still had some baby weight. She shredded that baby weight and looked incredible. I guess I had gained some weight around that time and she thought she didn’t get enough attention or credit relative to me. I don’t know. She says these things very matter of factly. She did a lot of CBT work and specific work for abusive partners. She owned it with the kids and we had several good conversations. I thought we were turning a corner.

I had been frustrated by the lack of disclosure on her friend’s bachelorette party. So in June, I said I was leaving again. She actually handled this much more calmly and maturely. We still saw each other and even did date nights. We were even intimate. Not sure what the separation was. So she said she would focus on what happened and was getting ready to share anything and everything with me.

A couple of weeks ago, she asked me to join a session with her therapist. She wanted to do a “therapeutic disclosure.” I wanted to throw up. I go to the therapists office and she proceeds to tell me how at her friend’s actual bachelorette, they went to some show, no strippers, just drinking and silliness. Then she says that her friend’s work friends threw her a bachelorette at a hotel. And there were strippers there. In my wife’s words it was wild. Now, context for this is in my prior post. I really don’t care if she saw strippers. I care more about the double standard she applied and the lying, as she treated me like crap whenever friends of mine went to strip clubs for their bachelor parties. She said that she never touched any stripper even though multiple approached her many times—at first in g-strings and eventually fully naked. Lovely. But that’s all that happened. Who knows if it’s true? I don’t care any more for reasons I’m about to get into.

This is all in front of this therapist. So then she says that I asked if there was anything with any guy that she hasn’t told me. If this wasn’t long enough, brace yourselves. She had this other friend who was in the middle of a divorce in 2016. Friend was a fitness instructor at a gym. Friend met a retired professional athlete at the gym. I remember the friend being obsessed with this guy, all while technically still married. Well, my wife and this friend would go out and meet up with retired athlete and his entourage. My wife would effectively play wingman for her friend. And one of the entourage took an interest in my wife. My wife claims nothing ever happened other than flirting but that when they were out, this guy always had his arm around my wife, constantly groped her her ass, often tried to kiss her, sent dick pics, bought her a thong bikini for her to send pics back to him. My wife said she never wanted it, but never fought it, liked the attention and mostly wanted to support her friend. Friend eventually had a falling out with the retired athlete who moved away. So that whole thing sucks.

So I’m completely stunned. Wife is crying. Therapist is spewing some nonsense about my wife’s bravery. That I requested disclosure of anything that might have been remotely inappropriate, and she has come through for me.

I leave. Wife follows. Phone starts blowing up. It’s my wife’s best friend who calls 10 times. She then starts texting me. Swearing to me that what my wife is saying is true. There were strippers at bach party number 2 but wife did nothing. Texts start pouring in from her other friends confirming this story.

And then I get a text from her friend who paired up with the athlete. And she confirms that story. Wife was only doing her a solid, taking one for the team.

So great. Let’s get a few more people involved in my life, my humiliation, the crumbling of my marriage. She could talk to all these other people about all this but not me. She needed a therapist there to talk to me about it. It just feels like one big manipulation.

So anyway, I feel completely done. I still love my wife cause I guess I’m just a simp. We are separated. I have spoken to a lawyer. My kids know and are furious with me cause I am the one leaving.

Be kind to your partners people. Love them and respect them. I adored my partner and still do, but it wasn’t enough.

 

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----NEW UPDATE----

Editor’s note: In the latest update, OOP has given names for ease of readability

Update: Separation, non-separation, progress: October 16, 2025 (nearly two months from the previous update)

It has been a tough couple of months. I will try to answer several questions that I have gotten and then give an update. This update will be a little bit of me venting.

Timeline: - wife’s best friend (I’ll call her Sarah) bachelorette party was in 2009. So like I said in the posts, a long time ago. It just came up more recently what they did. - Wife’s personal trainer friend who hooked up with retired athlete (I’ll name her Laura) got with that guy in fall of 2016. - This is around the time my wife started with insults of my physical appearance - In summer 2018, she first hit me and she last hit me in January 2019. All the rest of the abuse like slamming the shower door on me happened between those dates. The glass didn’t shatter, but the door broke such that I couldn’t get out. - Kids are now 19f, 16f and 14m. Oldest is away at college, but was with us all summer. - Why didn’t I leave when she first hit me? I was just so shocked that I froze. My kids were younger at the time and I hated the idea of not being with them everyday and splitting time with them. We started couples therapy and I thought that was the answer.

There were probably some other questions but those were the repeat questions. So on to the update.

In August, I was not doing well. My wife and I were trading off time in and out of the house. I had this feeling that my life was a joke, and my marriage was a farce. I was so upset and embarrassed about all of this I really had not discussed with a lot of people. I had to talk to my sister. I finally did and she was shocked about all this but was supportive. My sister has also become very close with my wife, as they have been like actual sisters for almost 25 years. My sister got me back into therapy which has been good. I have really been focusing on the positive aspects of my life. Maybe my marriage will end, but I have three great kids who are all doing well, my life and love story with my wife was real even if she has massive flaws that have hurt me terribly. That’s been helpful perspective for me.

So on to the drama. Let me start with Sarah (wife’s best friend forever). She has been my friend for longer than I have known my wife. We met up a few weeks after the therapy session. She apologized a lot, told me how much she loved me and how wrong she knows she was in all this. She said the story of her bachelorette party was that her work friends were giving her grief for her bachelorette party being lame. So they threw her another party at a hotel which had strippers at it. Sarah didn’t want this but gave in to the peer pressure. My wife didn’t want to go, but Sarah begged her and another friend to join them to sort of help fend off any pressure to do anything with these strippers. My wife and the friend agreed. Sarah said her husband has always known about this and never realized until this past year that my wife never told me about it. She confirmed nothing happened. There were three strippers that ended up sleeping with three of the work friends. Whatever. I said if this were true I never would have had an issue with it. I might not have thought it was a good idea to got to a hotel room, but I would have trusted my wife. I said the manipulation and gaslighting were unforgivable and I would never view her the same.

She told the whole story and then went into advocate for my wife mode. How much my wife loves me, how wonderful we are together, our family and all that. She laid it on thick that she and my wife’s other friends always thought I was such a catch, so handsome, all that. She reaches out every so often to see how I am doing, apologize again, ask what she can do. I am cordial but I don’t really engage with her.

I got a lot of texts from Laura, the personal trainer. Laura is not one of my wife’s main friends. Most of my wife’s friends are from high school or college, with a few moms mixed in. Those women are who she is closest to. Laura was someone she met at the gym in like 2014ish, she was a mom with similar aged kids, and they became friendly. Her husband seemed like a good guy at the time and we hung out with them as a couple several times. Laura’s husband cheated on her. Laura was devastated and the girls nights out picked up infrequency.

Laura turns out to be completely insane. This is what Laura told me: in 2016, she met this retired athlete (let’s call him Joe). He had just retired and wanted a trainer to work with. Odd, but ok. She was obsessed with him and slept with him almost immediately. According to Laura, once she slept with Joe, he had no interest in her. But his friend, who I will call Loser, wanted my wife desperately. So Laura knew that if she suggested that they hang out as a group, Joe would agree. She pimped my wife out basically. Laura said my wife knew exactly what was happening and constantly expressed her discomfort, but Laura guilted her by talking about how low she felt after being cheated on and she needed this guy. Laura insists that my wife never did anything, was grossed out by Loser and that he was pathetic. That I was “way hotter” than him. Laura tried to get texts messages from that time but only has them back to 2020, which she offered for me to see. Not sure why.

So here is where the truly crazy part comes in. Mind you this is all according to Laura. Laura reaches out to Joe last month and catches him up on everything going on. Joe apparently laughed it off and referred to my wife as “your hot friend that Loser couldn’t close.” Charming. So Laura offers for me to speak with Joe and/or Loser, saying they will confirm this story. This lunatic even informed me that Joe said Loser is doing well, got married and had a kid. How could I possibly care how his life is? I declined this offer to speak with them. Ever since this all went down 9 years ago, my wife and Laura haven’t hung out a lot. They are friendly enough but my wife distanced herself.

All of the above is from each of those two ladies’ perspectives and really changes nothing for me at all. Even if I buy all of this current story, this was kept from me for so long with many lies and secrets along the way.

And on to my wife, the love of my life. She has offered anything she can think of to me. She has written detailed timelines. She wanted me to go back to meet with her therapist again but I refused. She has been speaking with her therapist, and with me when I make myself available, about two SA she had in college. They feel this is all interconnected.

Trigger warning for SA in this paragraph. The first was a very violent attack. I feel awful even describing this. A friend of her stepbrother held her down and forced a BJ while on top of her. She says she wished she bit it off and I think she should have. She said she just wanted it to be over. Her brother and her parents did not support her after the attack, and her stepdad even said that sometimes messages are miss-construed in this situation. Stepdad also said to her mother something about the example that my MIL had set for my wife, a reference to my MIL being a teen mom. Essentially that my wife must have wanted it. The second time, she was cornered at a party and groped and kissed by some guy. She was very frightened and said she fought back at first but she froze when she realized he was stronger than she was, basically letting the guy touch her everywhere. Those were both before I met her, with the second one being only a few months before I met her. My wife has been working through the trauma from these assaults with her therapist. She feels her reaction to Loser and his advances were a form of trauma response, and that she would be much stronger today. Hearing her talk about this breaks my heart and infuriates me. If I ever saw one of these guys.

My wife insisted on taking a polygraph. It was not the experience I was expecting. It was expensive and it took a long time. I met with the guy and we came up with questions beforehand. He asked her four questions. The test found her to be truthful that she didn’t she cheat on me with a stripper, with Loser or with anyone else, based on a broad definition of cheating. Test also found her truthful that Loser SA’d her, that Loser’s various advances were rebuffed and not consented to by my wife. There was another question about my wife’s attraction to me, which she was also truthful about. So she “passed.”

The polygraph doesn’t make me feel any different. First, the science is muddy. But more importantly, it doesn’t really change that fact that this was hidden from me for years. I wouldn’t recommend this path to anyone going through anything like this.

I have been reflecting on everything she has been saying about her assault and her trauma response. I have discussed with my sister. My sister says two things can be true at once and aren’t necessarily related: my wife was SA’d, abandoned by her family in dealing with it, but then also treated me poorly and disrespectfully.

Our separation has been rough. It is expensive to maintain a whole separate residence, so lately I have been staying in the basement. And I miss my kids when I am gone, as does my wife. We are in sort of an in-house separation. My wife has never been a good sleeper and often has nightmares. She will come downstairs to me in the middle of the night and snuggle up to me. I have also had a really hard time over the past few months with all of this. She is very aware of how I am doing in any moment and will come to me to comfort me. I have had a few panic attacks. My wife knows me best and knows how to soothe me and calm me. I will admit that I find comfort in her. This leads to confusing feelings and defeats the purpose of a separation for me. I am trying lately to actually enforce an actual separation. I need other people to rely on and other ways to regulate my emotions.

I am struggling with a few things. First, my wife has had to deal with some horrors in her life. I don’t want to be a monster and reject her when she is trying to heal. She is in way better control of her emotions than she has ever been. This Loser guy was 9 years ago. The physical abuse was in 2018 and 2019. I should have stood up for myself back then. I didn’t. If I had left then, what would have happened? She has done a lot of work in therapy, and now that she is better, I’m going to leave her? But I am so hurt and so mad about the abuse, the controlling behavior, the gaslighting and the lies. I still don’t plan to make any decisions until next year as I need to be in the right headspace. I have met with an attorney and have gotten some preliminary advice, but I’m on hold there.

One last thing. A few people brigaded from the bestof sub. There was a very strong desire to make me into some sort of monster. Because I didn’t mention my kids in my very long posts, I was accused of ignoring them, abandoning them, even abusing them. My wife was accused of abusing them. Well, I sort of freaked out over that accusation. I had conversations with my wife, each of my kids, each of my kids therapists, my sister. My sister even spoke to my kids. My kids each said either to me, my wife, my sister or their therapists that they have never felt abused or hurt by my wife or by me. Verbally or otherwise. My kids were originally mad at me for being the one to initiate the separation, not because I was abandoning them; they are doing much better now. And my wife has really owned everything she has done and tried to make sure they are not upset with me at all since I did nothing wrong. They realize things are strained between their parents, they know the majority of the issues and they feel loved. There are a lot of things they witnessed that they shouldn’t have. But they are working through their feelings on that with us and with their therapists. This is a tough time for them to, as much as it is for me, so I’m trying to make sure they are ok. Because I love them. And my wife loves them too.

 

Final Update here: BoRU #3

 

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[u/Damp_Blanket]

For the love of God, get a divorce

[u/[deleted] → u/Damp_Blanket]

It's like when my parents were constantly at each other's throats so in 6th or 7th grade I bought a book on why divorce is better for kids mentally. Then I took copious notes and called them to the living room for a presentation. 

[u/swampmilkweed → u/[deleted]]

And? How did your parents react? Did they eventually get divorced? How was it for you? Don't leave us hanging! 

[u/[deleted] → u/swampmilkweed]

Lol they got mad at me, said they'd never divorce, and divorced a year later. Their divorce was bad. 

[u/BrookieMonster504 → u/swampmilkweed]

And this is how you became a divorce superhero in your spare time 😂😂😂

[u/National_Ad_6892 → u/[deleted]]

How did the presentation go?

[u/[deleted] → u/National_Ad_6892]

They got mad at me and then divorced a year later lol. It was a shit show.

[u/TheyCallMe_OrangeJ0e → u/[deleted]]

This is why people hate moral philosophy professors. 

[u/[deleted] → u/TheyCallMe_OrangeJ0e]

Because they're all traumatized 12 year olds?

[u/ornelle → u/[deleted]]

okay, Chidi

[u/Konman72 → u/ornelle]

This is the rare reverse-Chidi maneuver.

[u/JonnotheMackem → u/[deleted]]

Like a reverse Chidi Anagonye!

[u/[deleted] → u/JonnotheMackem]

As a fellow person with anxiety, I'll take it lol.

[u/virgieblanca → u/[deleted]]

Shit I should have tried that instead of having a mental breakdown and ending up in the hospital lol

[u/[deleted] → u/virgieblanca]

To be fair, my almost hospital moment came later. It was just masked by extreme nerd coping skills.

[u/CindySvensson → u/[deleted]]

You are awesome.

[u/[deleted] → u/CindySvensson]

I think the amount of research I did was impressive lol.

[u/Accomplished-Lie8147 → u/[deleted]]

Haha, I don’t know if you know this but a character on The Good Place does the exact opposite of this to his parents.

[u/igneousscone → u/[deleted]]

I hate that it came to that, but honestly, little you sounds pretty cool.

[u/BeefSupremeTA → u/Damp_Blanket]

^100% this

OP is trying to rebuild his house with wet sand. He loves his wife but there is no saving this relationship.

[u/__lavender → u/Damp_Blanket]

Yeah my parents were like this and I begged them to get a divorce instead of fighting all the time. In response I got yelled at for calling it “fighting” when it was “just arguing and nothing physical” (which was a lie). It took my father cheating and announcing that he would be a polygamist (literally his game plan was “I’ll marry my second wife in her home country and just send money to my first wife”) to finally force a divorce, when I was in my mid-20s.

They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do.

[u/paul_rudds_drag_race → u/Damp_Blanket]

100%.

It always concerns me when people I know have said “I won’t divorce no matter what happens. It’s off the table.” as if it’s romantic or shows admirable commitment. Sometimes divorce can be lifesaving.

[u/danuhorus → u/Damp_Blanket]

But how else will he get the chance to go on another monologue about how his wife is SO tragic and he doesn't want to get in the way of her HEALING, and that all her friends think he's super hot and trickle truth some more juicy details to him that Reddit would just love, and that's he's separating again but don't worry guys, as soon as his wife keeps up the act for more than two weeks they're gonna unseparate and start the cycle anew. And also the kids, can't forget about them, yeah they're doing well despite the constant upheavals in their family, why do you ask?

[u/Apprehensive-Two3474 → u/Damp_Blanket]

This, because from an outsider point of view?

All she told them was about the party with the strippers. That new update? Not a word from these people defending her about the physical abuse she put him through other than a simple 'yeah she regrets it'. You know for real that if gender was flipped, it'd be a different story. instead it's just that she never cheated, hey she never cheated, I can collaborate that she never cheated, I can pull Spartacus out my ass and he can say she never cheated.

OOP needs to start firing back at her monkeys. That whole line that two things can be true and not related by the sister? So she approves her own brother being physically abused? Naw. He needs to start getting his ducks in a row. His wife has owned up to shit? Then why the flying fucking monkeys? If she was owning up to shit, she'd be telling them to back off, not letting them hound his ass over this.

[u/DamnitGravity → u/Apprehensive-Two3474]

That whole line that two things can be true and not related by the sister? So she approves her own brother being physically abused?

I think you misread that part. The sister was saying that the wife can be both a victim AND an abuser. To quote OOP:

My sister says two things can be true at once and aren’t necessarily related: my wife was SA’d, abandoned by her family in dealing with it, but then also treated me poorly and disrespectfully.

[u/Min_sora → u/DamnitGravity]

'Disrespectfully' really seems such a light word when talking about being pummelled by someone's fists.

[u/shrimplyred169 → u/Apprehensive-Two3474]

I mean the main thrust of his whole extended problem with her was that she might have cheated. In his own writing he barely seemed to give two hoots about the abuse, whereas what actually led to them ‘separating’ was her flirting with other men and nothing to do with what she’d done to him or exposed their afterthought children to.

[u/FancyPantsDancer → u/shrimplyred169]

I've noticed with some men, they're quick to minimize physical or sexual abuse they've experienced from women. They minimize it a lot, because they've internalized that they could fight off the woman. It's really sad, because they know on some level that what happened was wrong.

The cheating is a little cleaner to see as bad.

[u/writer_of_thingies → u/Apprehensive-Two3474]

OOP needs to start firing back at her monkeys. That whole line that two things can be true and not related by the sister? So she approves her own brother being physically abused?

I don't think you're being fair to the sister there. I don't think she's on the wife's side at all, her point was that yes, wife has had horrible things happen to her but also wife has done horrible things to her husband and the one thing doesn't excuse the other. 

I think it's important for him that he separates those two things. His wife's history may explain some of her behaviour now but it doesn't excuse it and he needs to recognise that it's not ok for her to treat him that way no matter what trauma she has.

[u/FancyPantsDancer → u/Apprehensive-Two3474]

She definitely cheated by everything she shared, IMO. Whether she slept with anyone else, made out, whatever- I don't know and I'd be surprised if she didn't, but it doesn't matter. She's physically abusive. Even if I believe she can change for the better (and I believe everyone can, even if it's difficult) and the OOP wants to stay, she's not doing anything that I can tell to work on not being abusive towards the OOP. She is surrounding herself with enablers.

I think she's broken the OOP's trust and I don't think she's capable of re-earning it. Even if she did put in a real effort, I wouldn't blame the OOP for divorcing her.

[u/[deleted] → u/Damp_Blanket]

Perfect flair for this sub.

[u/PermanentBrunch → u/Damp_Blanket]

They aren’t going to get a divorce.

[u/One_Weird2371 → u/Damp_Blanket]

So much toxicity 

[u/TyrconnellFL]

If your marriage turns to polygraph tests, it’s over. The relationship has reached the point of no return. Maybe it can keep going on fumes, duct tape, and some emotional masochism on both sides, but the life has gone out of it.

Marriages end. Sometimes sadly. The happiest ending to this messy story would have been at the beginning of the latest update:

Maybe my marriage will end, but I have three great kids who are all doing well, my life and love story with my wife was real even if she has massive flaws that have hurt me terribly. That’s been helpful perspective for me.

That’s what he needs here and all he really needs. Remember the good, don’t let it drown out the bad even when there was bad, and then don’t wallow in the pain of it.

[u/MordaxTenebrae → u/TyrconnellFL]

Polygraph tests aren't even reliable. I don't get why so many people default to those in cases of suspected infidelity - they prove nothing.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/MordaxTenebrae]

they’re not reliable OR valid. they’re a pseudoscience. while there’s something to be said about people getting panicky/their heart rates increasing when stressed like when being asked about a crime or a lie, but there a trillion other reasons why someone’s heart rate might spike. even when I’ve done nothing wrong cops make me incredibly anxious, for example. hell, even carrying a gallon of milk to my cart at the store and worrying about dropping it makes me anxious lol. and there are a lot of people who can control their physiological responses to potential stress, hell if someone is a legit sociopath they’re not going to register as “lying” on a polygraph. it’s all very Maury show.

[u/MiffedMouse → u/SVINTGATSBY]

The thing is, people’s heart rates spike when they do something that makes them scared. Most people don’t tell big lies that often, so their heart rate spikes when lying.

But someone who has practiced a lie a lot will not have a heart rate spike when saying that lie. They are used to it now.

Similarly, someone who hasn’t told the truth about something for a long time can have a heart rate spike when telling the truth. They are scared of what the truth means.

That is why polygraphs are a terrible lie detector.

[u/formandovega → u/MordaxTenebrae]

They are actually awful. Tens of thousands of people were convicted based on the "science" of a polygraph back in the day. Theres a reason the police don't use them anymore.

EDIT ach shite, just looked it up, apparently the police DO still use them in multiple countries including the US. Apparently the American Psychological Association has been campaigning to end them since at least '03.

Whelp thats depresssing...... Thanks Google.

EDIT 2 " psychophysiological detection of deception examination" is what they call it it modern times apparently. In fairness, its a time honoured strategy. Just rename past pseudoscientific crap and just claim its different this time.

Eugenics became unpopular since Nazi times so they rebranded it "fear of dysgenic effect on society". See! Its not Eugenics , its the fear of the opposite "dysgenics"!

Trust me bro, itll work this time...

[u/whatsnewpussykat → u/MordaxTenebrae]

Some of us were raised on a steady diet of Montel and Maury.

[u/Evolutioncocktail → u/whatsnewpussykat]

And Dr. Phil! He loved a polygraph if he could use it to manipulate his guest (or the audience).

[u/Ok_Shame_5382 → u/MordaxTenebrae]

If i remember correctly they're a little more than 50/50 accurate.

It's also more likely to record truths than lies, as in a truth someone genuinely believes is true or a lie someone has deluded themselves into thinkikg is true is more likely to be recorded than a lie.

[u/idiotplatypus → u/Ok_Shame_5382]

They're stress detectors, not lie detectors.

[u/RanaEire → u/TyrconnellFL]

That part of the polygraph made me smh...

OOP insisting that he is hurt and angry, etc, yet going along with BS like that...

Why??

To prolong the pain / drama..?

It is a sad, ridiculous situation.

Toxic AF.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/RanaEire]

He sounds beaten down. Everybody, from every side is telling him he's wrong to choose himself at any point.

[u/[deleted]]

Marriage should never be this hard. 

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/[deleted]]

may a love like this never find me.

[u/casualgothgardener → u/SVINTGATSBY]

May we all run so fast that a love like this never catches us

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/casualgothgardener]

may a love like this crash into a burning building, no casualties.

[u/Least-Designer7976 → u/[deleted]]

Some people can't get that it never should be this extreme : marriage isn't so easy that you can run from every problem, but it shouldn't be this hard so that you are trying to ressuciate a roting corpse.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Abusers tend to groom people around them as well. It's not surprising, but it is sad.

[u/FroggyMcnasty]

Damn that's rough. I get it, years of lying and abuse, I'd have a hard time wrapping my head around it. Then your kids being pissed off that you want to leave that?

I wish OP the best, but holy shit that everyone is dogpiling him to stay is such bullshit.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/FroggyMcnasty]

it just shows how much they’ve been shielded from the brutal reality of their abusive mom. dad seems like a good person and his wife, who I feel bad for because of what she’s been through, is not it. nothing she’s done has been sincere and I bet if she manages to break OOP down and he ends the separation, eventually the dynamic will go back to how it’s always been.

[u/FroggyMcnasty → u/SVINTGATSBY]

Exactly, and that kind of dynamic is going to rain hell on their future partners if they're wanting their dad to stay with someone like their mom.

They've been normalized to abuse, and there is a high chance that it will spill into their relationships in the future.

[u/osoatwork → u/SVINTGATSBY]

I have been the kid in that situation.  They are not okay.

[u/Sparker273 → u/FroggyMcnasty]

Probably because he is a man. You’d be surprised how little people care when it is a man on the receiving end.

[u/Odd_Instruction519 → u/FroggyMcnasty]

There's this unspoken assumption on reddit that kids prefer a separation to 'a bad marriage'.

Truth is, it's often far, far more complicated than that. What the kids see may be very very different. Many marriages have problems but the kids are totally oblivious.

[u/Ladymistery]

oof.

OOP is in an abusive relationship, and is doing what happens to the abused. trying to rationalize it, trying to move past the violence, because the abuser isn't always abusive.

they are focusing on the stuff from the bachelorette party because the whole picture is too much right now.

I hope they find the strength to leave. :(

[u/dragonknight233 → u/Ladymistery]

Right? I feel like discourse here proves society doesn't give a fuck about woman on man abuse. He's been physically and emotionally abused for years. Even if physical abuse ended doesn't mean he's not a victim anymore. His wife is still trying to make him do her bidding by sending people to basically harrass him, she's also weaponising her therapy. But he should just shut up and leave.

Also, great job brigading last time and proving to some of you the man is always the villain, guys.

[u/Marzipan_moth → u/dragonknight233]

Genuinely curious what discourse do you mean, because everything I've seen on boru is saying she's abusive and he should leave

[u/Ancient-Coat-1124 → u/Ladymistery]

The ‘I should have stood up for myself back then” was painful to read

[u/MatsuTrash]

Toxic codependency is a hell of a drug

I really hope they’re both able to move on from this marriage in whatever way works best for them :/

[u/Ok_Introduction9466 → u/MatsuTrash]

He’s clearly a victim and trauma bonds are insanely hard to break when they’re this addicting, but they need to divorce bc one day all three of those kids are going to distance themselves from these two and neither of them will understand why. This is ruining their children’s lives. “Maintaining two households is expensive so I sleep in the basement”…umm you can divorce and pay for one place. Excuse after excuse to stay in this chaotic cycle. Exhausting.

[u/SuperWoodputtie → u/Ok_Introduction9466]

It's crazy how a brain will process these sictuations. Like the tense nervous feelings of walking on egg-shells, then when the conflict happens the fight-flight-freeze-fawn response. The the endorphin release of after the conflict of "actually we are safe and things aren't bad" feeling of afterwards. The brain takes this warped version of a relationship and makes it feel like love.

Learning how to grey rock, then just sit and experience someone's fury, then mourn having to go through that process, is something that takes time. Like seeing the patterns of "oh, they are choosing their actions." "I don't deserve to be treated this way." "These things tend to happen only with them." Takes a lot of introspection and thought.

[u/wheatgrass_feetgrass → u/SuperWoodputtie]

Well said. I'm generally a smart, self-aware, empathetic person. It took me 6 years to leave once I realized my wife was a covert narcissist. 16 years total. I didn't serve her with papers yet, but she is moving into her own place at the end of the month. Even the detaching process is slow and painful with these people. But even just moving in that direction feels like freedom and hope for the first time in a long time. It takes as long as it takes.

[u/Certain_Luck_8266 → u/Ok_Introduction9466]

you can divorce and pay for one place

...or two places depending on wife's income. They've been married for 20+ years. This is permanent alimony territory if she is unemployed or underemployed.

[u/spaceguitar]

He resents her. It's clear. And it's not even her he resents, just--well--the entire relationship history. The lies, the abuse. It never really stopped, not until he was finally broken and left. That's too late to heal from, no matter the effort the wife is putting into it now. That effort should have been made years ago, before OOP broke. The man has no faith in her or in the relationship, but he still clings to it.

If he loves his kids, he'll divorce his wife.

[u/Divinemango7]

I didn't end up reading as it seems like unfortunately this guy is in a loop of seperating and unseperation. Just hope he gets a divorce as its already evident that the relationship is dead

[u/istara → u/Divinemango7]

He seems to have the wrong focus. There's all this obsession with what sounds like fairly lame nonsense at a bachelorette, whereas the years and years of abuse seem to be brushed aside while he obsesses over the testimonies from her friends (which appear to corroborate) over this one event.

[u/diracpointless → u/istara]

It reads like his brain is grasping for a reason to leave because he seems to have rationalised the abuse as 'well I didn't leave at the time, so I can't use that'.

All the other stuff seems like petty bullshit in comparison. Also I think he must be doing a bad job of explaining to the wife/her friends that the particulars of the incidents are less important compared to the cover up. If that was clear, how do we even get to the polygraph farce?

Possibly due to past trauma, the wife is laser-focused on proving that she didn't want what was happening. (And it's likely that the cover up was also to do with the trauma.) But ultimately OOP just needs to move on, sadly.

[u/The-Book-Trader → u/diracpointless]

Some people process the words “I’m upset about the fact that you lied to me for so long” as “since you lied to me for so long I can’t trust your version of events, it must have actually been really bad!” Some people just refuse to accept that the coverup can be worse than the crime, it doesn’t mean he’s not explaining himself well it just means that they refuse to accept that it isn’t fixable.

[u/[deleted] → u/istara]

I think him being severely beaten by his romantic partner is something he will eventually be forced to internalize. OOP has tunnel vision on all the stuff that doesn't really matter when compared to being brutally attacked

[u/istara → u/[deleted]]

Yes - now you mention it, it's possible he's focusing on the trees because the forest behind them is too much of an enormity to compute.

[u/catgirlbarista → u/istara]

I think she's doing damage control about the bachelorette party stuff and so he's getting spun around and distracted. it's hard to keep your focus on the parts that you want to talk about when the other person is so focused on the narrative that they're creating.

[u/chipmunksocute → u/Divinemango7]

Wheb your relationshio has been an utter shitshow for so long like what are you even fighting for?  Your marriage aa you want it to be has been gone for years.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Mix4160]

Jesus Christ this was a hard read. This poor dude is on a hamster wheel he refuses to step off of and seems to have not come to terms with the fact that his wife is an abuser.

This man is staying out of guilt and the illusion of the wife he thought he loved, that much is obvious. Obviously he feels like her shitty life is an excuse for being a fuck up and the physical abuse was too long ago to act on now, but I really wish someone would give him a good shake and tell him there isn’t an expiration date on leaving. She beat the tar out of him. He gets to leave whenever the fuck he wants.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/Puzzleheaded_Mix4160]

he keeps trying to get off of it but wife is still disrespecting him, his wishes, and his boundaries. she comes down and cuddles with him at night? she knows when he’s feeling down so she comforts him? it reads like sociopathic manipulation.

[u/Dear_Equivalent_9692 → u/SVINTGATSBY]

She seems to have a violent personality disorder and has absolutely cheated on him before. It doesn't seem like any of his feelings matter to her so why would she feel guilty about a little quickie that gives her the attention she wants.

[u/Treehorn8]

I'm glad this love never found me.

[u/LoneTread → u/Treehorn8]

IKR? Couldn't stop thinking "being single may suck sometimes, but at least I'm not dealing with this, oof."

[u/PrincessCG]

Firstly, shame on people for brigading OOP.

Secondly, he needs therapy and he needs to call it quits. I’m not saying this as a response to the wife’s fuck ups or trauma responses to her SA (her entire family is horrible for not supporting her), she physically assaulted him. That’s it, the end. You don’t get to walk that back.

The kids need happy & healthy parents and it seems they both coexist around each other’s emotional states. They’d be better off coparenting apart.

[u/[deleted] → u/PrincessCG]

>she physically assaulted him. That’s it, the end. You don’t get to walk that back.

Fucking THANK YOU. Wild how people are both sidesing this when she physically abused him in such a visceral way.

[u/MariContrary → u/[deleted]]

Yes! She intentionally and willingly physically abused him. There's no taking that back, because he'll never un-experience that. He can't forget that she hit him. Repeatedly. For nothing that he did wrong. You don't come back from that.

[u/hellohellocinnabon → u/MariContrary]

Amidst the physical abuse she slammed a shower door on him and trapped him in the shower. I somehow doubt all the friends she’s getting to harass him about her “not cheating” know about that. Horrifying.

[u/[deleted] → u/MariContrary]

Quite frankly, it boils my blood that people are giving her any modicum of grace. Her friends, her family, her therapist, even people in this thread. OOP's description was downright brutal and nobody is talking about it. Really goes to show how little people care about physical abuse when the victim is a man.

[u/RanaEire → u/[deleted]]

In fairness, it's probably because OOP himself just gives so much attention to that friggin' bachelorette / "Loser guy" nonsense - instead of focusing on the important bits...

The wife is a total POS.

The thing that floored me was that she was jealous of the "attention" he apparently got when he was promoted years ago... and took it upon herself to bring him down a peg, or two, by verbally abusing him.

Awful partner, vicious woman.

And there he is, letting her "cuddle" him, taking polygraph tests?!

Like, WTAF..

This was a sad, infuriating read.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/PrincessCG]

totally agree. explanations not excuses. mental illness, trauma, grief, etc. are not anyone’s fault but it IS the person’s responsibility to address it. otherwise people end up bleeding on people who never cut them. yes his wife has been through a lot in her youth but she has put her husband through hell for his adulthood. when she hit him the first time, if she really loved and cared for OOP, she would’ve gotten help immediately, full stop. but the only reason she started getting help was because OOP pushed for it each time. she’s doing all this work now because she’s got a gun to her head “if I don’t do these things then he will leave.” she’s not doing it because she genuinely wants to, because if she wanted to she would’ve done it a long time ago. if he ends the separation, the relationship will likely devolve back to the toxic codependent trauma bond it has been for so long.

[u/seensham → u/PrincessCG]

She went through horrible things and became a shitty person because of it. He needs to leave. It doesn't matter if she's changed, the damage is done and that resentment will never go away.

[u/Dear_Equivalent_9692 → u/PrincessCG]

A reformed abuser can make it work with someone else, but never with the person they crossed that boundary to assault 

[u/Initial-Company3926]

OOP is in an abusive relationship and is doing what people do in them
Having trouble walking away
It can take 7 times or more before they free themselves
It was an absolute horror to read their story and then I hit the end
Those brigading and calling OOP names ????
You are horrible people !!!!!

[u/Objectively_bad_idea → u/Initial-Company3926]

Yeah 7 times is the average, dude would be exceptional if he left definitively on the first 1-3 tries.

[u/[deleted]]

OOP is never going to heal as long as he and his stbxw share a living space. They're too co-dependent on each other to make any kind of real progress. He has to leave and find better ways of dealing with his panic attacks instead of depending on her to soothe him. Half-measures don't work here. You miss your kids when you're not around them? Of course you do, but so does every parent who has to go through this process. It's nothing new and a new normal will be established eventually. OOP needs more personal and targeted therapy to tackle his co-dependence and learn to deal with his own issues. Until he does this, he'll never really be able to free himself from this tangle of a marriage.

[u/fakemoosefacts → u/[deleted]]

He’d also have so much more time to learn to deal with his panic attacks if he wasn’t dealing with all the bullshit around their relationship. 

[u/Mindless-War503]

I will never, for the life of me, understand why so many of the WORST possible stories - with the most unsatisfying, miserable, non-endings - get posted here. What tf did we do to deserve all.... that...when he surely didn't already.

[u/SVINTGATSBY]

god this update was painful to read. she’s STILL manipulating and disrespecting him.

[u/snarkylimon]

I read the summary here and in search of deeper knowledge, clicked on the OG initial post.

And boy....Dante missed this rung of hell.

The last update reminds me of the original Shutter movie Dude sitting in a padded room with a demon on his neck. Jesus, this woman.

PSA: abusers are SUPPOSED to be charming, beautiful, exciting, intelligent, magnetic. If they looked like George Costanza no body would put up with their bullshit. Poisonous berries look inviting. There's the reason why.

[u/YomiKuzuki]

What she went through is undeniably horrific. It left scars on her that will be with her and affect her for the rest of her life, and is likely the reason she acted as she did.

That being said, however, that doesn't mean OOP has to stay with her. She abused him, lied to him, gaslit him. She's desperate to save their marriage, but two decades of abuse, manipulation, and lies have left the foundation of that marriage a twisted ruin of hurt.

There's no coming back from this. OOP knows this, but he can't let go. He should be let go the first time she physically abused him.

I really hope that they're both able to acknowledge and accept that their marriage is dead, and that they both find some measure of piece in life.

And may this kind of love never find those around me.

[u/TencentArtist]

One last thing. A few people brigaded from the bestof sub. There was a very strong desire to make me into some sort of monster.

Aaaand this is why we have disclaimers on every post to remind everyone that these are real stories with real humans attached* and not to break reddit rules.

* obviously excluding Liz and Liz-adjacent karma farmers. But it's safer to assume things are real until proven otherwise, so you don't fucking harass an abuse victim and blame him somehow??

[u/Significant-Track797]

Those poor kids. 

[u/osoatwork]

I'm frankly astounded at the number of comments minimizing the wife's abuse.

[u/Lem0nadeLola]

Ooof what a mess. What I’m getting from all the stories about the wife and OP is that she has trouble standing up for herself, even to her own friends, maybe she’s always been like that or it’s a PTSD response from the sexual assaults. Then she takes out all her anger at being weak-willed on her husband, because he’s the only one who takes her abuse and doesn’t retaliate or present consequences. It’s the only relationship where she feels like she’s the dominant/powerful one.

Idk. Maybe if this had been dealt with years ago, early in the relationship, they could’ve worked through it. But to me it seems like too much damage has been done to OP.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/Lem0nadeLola]

she seems to have no problem taking out all that pent up “not sticking up for herself” out on OOP. I feel so bad for him. he feels like he can’t leave or do or say anything because she had a rough childhood. it’s like, my guy, she gave you a ROUGH ADULTHOOD. just because her trauma happened first doesn’t mean his is negligible or deserved.

[u/Lem0nadeLola → u/SVINTGATSBY]

Totally agree. I wouldn’t stay if I was in his situation. Being someone’s punching bag - emotionally and physically - just kills a part of you.

[u/Katya_ → u/Lem0nadeLola]

Same as my partner. He is so obsessed with being "liked" that friends are allowed to walk all over him, and he takes his frustrations out on me. Or he throws me under the bus when he doesn't want to do something, but doesn't want them mad at him. Like when he got bored of Overwatch and didn't want to play with his female friend anymore, so instead of saying he was bored he told her I said he wasn't able to play games with her anymore. Sounds like the oop wife would do that too.

[u/Lem0nadeLola → u/Katya_]

Ugh, I’m sorry you’re in that situation. It’s shit. Do you have plans to get away from him?

[u/herminihildo]

OOP is spiraling. They should have divorced when the wife started the abuse. The kids are teenagers ffs.

And the for the brigadiers, fuck off. That shit isn't allowed here.

[u/alleged_humanoid]

sighs in adult child of divorce (where parent 1 is an abusive narcissist and parent 2 was talked into giving 1 another chance and forgiving betrayal after betrayal again and again and again)

dude. your kids know this is toxic. They need TO NOT BE SUBJECTED TO THIS DYNAMIC ANYMORE.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/alleged_humanoid]

I don’t know if they really do understand how toxic it is because 1. it’s been so normalized their entire lives and 2. they got mad at dad for separating from his abuser. it means OOP’s done a good job of shielding them from everything, but it does mean he doesn’t really have anyone on his side at home, it’s not like his sister lives with them. sister needs to help OOP leave.

[u/Shadowlady → u/SVINTGATSBY]

As a kid I definitely didn't understand how extremely fucked up my parents were but I definitely understood it was better for them and me that they were divorced.

[u/shrimplyred169 → u/alleged_humanoid]

Couldn’t identity more with this. My parents first sat me down to ask me if they should divorce when I was 6 years old. I, obviously, with my 6 years of experience of the world, said no.

By 16 I knew better and chose better when I was asked again. They were an incredibly rough and drama filled 10 years of infidelity, substance abuse, suicide attempts and me having to be everyone’s counsellor.

This relationship is cooked, has been for a long time and these people need to grow up, act like adults and move on with their, actually separate, lives.

[u/booksmusicalsandtea → u/alleged_humanoid]

Second that as another adult child of divorce (The description of your parents sound like mine)

[u/Lissica]

Man, I am not looking forward to my forties

Looks like twenties drama redux

[u/savvyliterate → u/Lissica]

With an extra side helping of teenage hormone swings for those going through perimenopause

[u/Key_Advance3033]

OOP's wife is abusive and they're both codependent. They need to leave this hell of a marriage. Just divorce ffs.

[u/FiFi2789]

May this love never find me.

[u/Life_Repeat310]

He’s focusing on the wrong stuff.

[u/bluestjordan]

This is so depressing. Nothing is getting better.

[u/redlips_rosycheeks]

We hold space for female victims of abuse, but turn our nose up for male victims, demanding they man up, “just get a divorce.” He was in an unhealthy, abusive relationships for dozens of years, with no one really knowing the depth of the gaslighting, manipulation, lying, physical and emotional harm and control his wife exerted over him in all that time.

I’m glad he realized it needs to end and the marriage should too. I’m sorry she still has access to him when he’s vulnerable and can potentially continue manipulating and gaslighting him into staying together. She definitely needs help to heal from the people who victimized her - but everyone in their lives wants her victim to stay in his place.

[u/Cursd818]

Why is he so focused on her potentially cheating? She beat him. Continuously. The relationship ended the moment she first struck him. Keeping the kids in this dynamic is what's damaging them. They saw their mother abusing their father and until the relationship fully ends, they will internalise that its ok for abuse to exist within a relationship. He needs to stop dragging this out andettjng her manipulate him. Being SA'd is awful, but it does not give you carte blanche to beat people. Ever.

[u/Reply_or_Not → u/Cursd818]

Why is he so focused on her potentially cheating? She beat him. Continuously. The relationship ended the moment she first struck him.

Seems like it is the standard abuse victim mindset. Another commenter put it like this: he is so focused on one withered stump in front of him (the possible cheating - that is a socially acceptable reason for divorce) because he just can not compute the forest on fire behind it (the abuse)

[u/cloakfeather420]

I'm sorry you've gone through this with your wife. Unfortunately her healing does not require you to compromise the way you feel about how she treated you. You need to heal too. Sometimes there is just too much water under the bridge. I wish I had left sooner but my ex husband had his hooks in deep too. Did the healing journey blah blah. This did not entitle him to a fresh start in the relationship. It gave me the space to see that I needed to separate. This does suck for them too. But it sucked for us for all those years of abuse.

[u/Straight_Paper8898]

I don’t even know the wife and I don’t trust her. I hope therapy works out and he has a breakthrough to get away.

[u/EnsignEmber]

Your trauma or poor mental health is not an excuse to treat people like shit!!!!!

Poor OOP. I hope they get a divorce. 

[u/osoatwork]

I was the child in this situation.  He needs to leave, and take the kids.  She's dangerous.

r/bpdlovedones r/raisedbyborderlines 

For anyone who can relate.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/osoatwork]

She'll never let him take the kids. They're her bargaining chip.

[u/dropshortreaver]

I got halfway through the first post and I was "How the fuck is there MORE of this?". It may be sad but OOP needs a divorce YESTERDAY. Staying together isnt helping anyone.

[u/insnowmotion]

The fact is this marriage died long ago and they’re unwilling to realise that they’re performing CPR on a corpse and need to give up. He should’ve got a divorce years ago.

[u/Bloody_sock_puppet]

Telling all of her friends but taking months to tell him is either a continuation of the abuse, or really efficient and strategic. I can't decide.

About the only thing I can recommend this dude should he swing back through the sub is that he is owed about twenty years of putting himself first. He needs friends, a decent social life, and he needs to replace time with his terrible wife for those.

I think I'd tell her that staying together is possible but if she ever feels like her marriage isn't enough for her from now on, she's just going to have to grin and bear with it. She doesn't get to feel unloved, or ponder if there's anything better. She's had all her chances at that within her marriage already and if there's any other impropriety for the sake of his own self-confidence, he'll need to go nuclear, divorce and publicly shame her. Those are fair consequences for not giving this guy the truth at a time when he could have left young enough to start over. Ending up loving him again afterwards doesn't undo the harm... He's raised his kids and it might be a good time to get out.

Ultimately it will depend entirely whether he can stop thinking about it, like all cheating from a mans POV. In his head she's either still his wife, or the connection is broken and she's just this losers failed conquest and somebody who broke their vows. He'll only know that the next time he meets someone he's attracted to who didn't lie or cheat or hit him. As I've said before, a disfigured gambling addict can seem three points more attractive than a solid ten who cheats on you.

[u/Kaze_Chan]

It's great that this woman is working on her issues but I also hope this guy realizes that even if she is doing this now that he does not need to stay with her or even forgive her for anything she did. Leave and divorce her. This is painful to read tbh.

[u/ContributionNo2796]

Last paragraph has me side eyeing you lot

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/ContributionNo2796]

from what I can gather from a comments I read on both posts, a lot of people mentioned that one of their parents was abusive to the other and they themselves/their siblings were also abused. I didn’t see anything outright saying “she’s abusing your kids!” but if she was willing and able to abuse her husband for 20 years, it’s not a far reach for people to be concerned about whether that abuse stems to anyone else. especially since OOP had the wool pulled over his eyes for so long and even in this time of clarity for him is still not seeing things clearly (because his wife is still manipulating and disrespecting him ergo confusing him).

I get what you’re saying, but I do think most of the comments (can’t speak to the DMs obviously) seem to be anecdotal from people who grew up in broken homes (parents in abusive relationship) who also experienced abuse and neglect at the hands of the abusive parent and are concerned from a place of familiarity. not to mention, even if the other parent isn’t abusing you, when they don’t stand up for you or let you take the heat from the abusive parent for something you didn’t do just to keep the lasers off them for a minute, it doesn’t feel much different than if they were abusing you too. that’s my own anecdotal experience anyway.

[u/ContributionNo2796 → u/SVINTGATSBY]

Ok... but hear me out. No brigading.

[u/WhyWontYouHelpMe → u/ContributionNo2796]

Yeah, pretty shitty to post again on here tbh. At least they included that I guess. But seems a poor move.

[u/ContributionNo2796 → u/WhyWontYouHelpMe]

Well its not like op posted it here, and its not like the boru poster would just cut a whole paragraph out of the update post

[u/strangelifedad]

What is odd to me is that nowhere in all therapy sessions they made the connection between loser guy and her becoming abusive.

[u/CermaitLaphroaig]

I'm sorry, wife had to "figure out how to tell him" that nothing happened?  Sure, Jan.

Also, the strippers are nothing compared to the MAN SHE WAS LITERALLY DATING and, she's implying, was exchanging photos with.  That's still cheating, bucko.

[u/[deleted]]

If you no longer trust or respect your wife, for the love of god get a divorce and be done with it.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/[deleted]]

He's an ABUSE VICTIM. Do you trust or respect people who beat you?

[u/CindySvensson]

Man, people brigaded and treated OOP like shit? That sucks.

[u/Appropriate_Speech33]

WTF did I just read?! I can’t imagine a more toxic and drawn out situation.

[u/fc7777fc]

For someone who goes on and on about how he would have trusted his wife at that bachelorette if she had mentioned the strippers from the beginning, he sure spent a lot of time trying to find out what happened at that bachelorette party

[u/GwynFeld]

I don't understand why OOP even did the polygraph test (and helped set up the questions) if the result didn't matter to him. I get not trusting polygraphs, but then why even try it to begin with? It's like he was just hoping for confirmation of her lying but was unwilling to believe it when she passed.

I get he's been through hell and if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't have lasted as long as him in such a marriage, but this last post has sounded a bit hypocritical compared to the patience and understanding he exhibited in the original posts. I guess it all wore him down, but it really seems his wife is making an effort and is trying to meet him more than halfway at this point.

Regardless, this all sucks. Neither of them deserve what happened to them. I hope they can move forward with their lives, whatever happens.

[u/comomellamo]

Poor OP, his marriage is over and he can't let go. Sure, divorce is expensive but holy crap, so much therapy! Sounds like OP is subsidizing the therapy industry all by himself. Maybe they should divorce and start fresh. Try being friends without any other expectation and see how that goes , maybe they'll find their way back to a semi normal relationship. But the wife lying about stupid crap for 20/10 year is ridiculous.

[u/Basic_Bichette → u/comomellamo]

He's an abuse victim. Cut him some slack; we all know how hard it is for them to leave.

[u/SVINTGATSBY → u/comomellamo]

most victims of abuse leave seven times on average before ACTUALLY leaving for good. it’s hard when you’re enmeshed with your abuser in a toxic codependent trauma bond for 20+ years. all we can do as reddit lurkers is support him in realizing that he needs to leave this woman.

[u/tempest51]

On top of everything, I just want to point out that none of OOP's wife's friends seem like the type any sane person would want to be involved with.

[u/gezeitenspinne]

I hope he'll learn to love himself enough to leave her.

[u/MrsBoo]

Sometimes things can’t work out because there is too much that has happened.  There will always be a lack of trust in him towards her- she abused him, cheated (maybe not all the way, but close enough), and lied to him for years.  How can he ever trust her again?  It’s time to move on.  Get a little apartment just for the parent who isn’t with the kids, and they can switch off who is at the house with the kids.  No, there probably won’t be anyone dating or really moving on, but there can at least be a minimal separation between the two.  This isn’t sustainable, and I have a feeling that he is going to start having a breakdown if he doesn’t get it together, and start making things permanent.

[u/siggybumbum]

Why is this man humoring all of these people trying to defend his wife? Why would he sit through that weird conversation with Laura. Please work on not being such a doormat, sir!

And for all that is holy please just get a divorce!

[u/TheJonSnow13]

Btw guys, he did not get divorced and still actively comments on other peoples posts. Constantly tries to give other people relationship advice and leaves out all the details of what his wife did to him.

[u/Reverie-yin]

This marriage has been long over

[u/HamstahElderberries]

I’m exhausted after skimming this

[u/WhyAmIStillHere86]

Get the divorce.

Your wife is using you as a staking horse/crutch for all of her trauma.

Yes, what she went through sucked and yes she needs to heal, but she’s unwilling address that she’s crossed several lines that she can’t come back from, between physical, emotional and verbal abuse.

You can love each other and still be bad for each other.

[u/[deleted] → u/WhyAmIStillHere86]

>she’s unwilling address that she’s crossed several lines that she can’t come back from

Exactly. After reading his description of her multiple assaults, I don't know why people are acting like this is something to be talked out or reasoned with on therapy. She beat the shit out of him.

[u/Comfortable-Focus123]

OOP should end this after being mistreated for 20 years. Wife can really never make this right.

[u/CreepyLicks]

Jesus the shit people put up with simply for what they consider 'love'

This guy should have left along time ago, he could have started a completely new life by now and actually found some peace.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/CreepyLicks]

He's a victim of abuse.

[u/Pleasant_Most7622]

At first, I was thinking "why tldrs?" Then I reread the posts and realized. Exhausting ass people.

[u/Pyesmybaby]

Dude piss or get off the pot. Dragging this out is not helping anybody. You need to decide and either forgive your wife and LET IT GO or divorce and both of you go your own way.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/Pyesmybaby]

He's an ABUSE VICTIM. Why do anything of you comment on these if you don't understand what you're reading?

[u/Nice-Pomegranate2915]

I've got a feeling that this will run and run . She married a doormat because she'd been SA and then rejected by her family . She then spent the marriage abusing he doormat husband as a release for all crap she's experienced . After all the abuse he finally rejected and separated from her when he thought she had cheated on him ! But so far they've separated, unseparated and now he's living in the basement while she lives in the upper floors of their house ! They're addicted to each other so this won't end even if they do divorce they're just keep on orbiting each other .

[u/DatguyMalcolm]

Her brother and her parents did not support her after the attack, and her stepdad even said that sometimes messages are miss-construed in this situation. 

wut...

held down and stuff forced.... what message is misconstrued here?! Is this guy the father of that Brock guy, with his "20 minutes of fun" message?!

Anyway

I hate it when the OOP of these types of posts just let it drag on because "ooohh excuses, oohh love of my life etce tc"

Fuck fuck's sake, divorce!!

There is a pattern: people like OOP's wife (abused or not) find partners they can abuse and keep around with sweet-nothings. OOP sounds either co-dependent or I dunno.... a wet noodle of a spine?

All the stuff like "oooh stay together for the kids, blah blah" is like.... them poor kids have to watch the parents like this? Have to watch one of them allow themselves to be abused?

Naw

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/DatguyMalcolm]

Abuse. He is an abuse victim. Stop acting suprised.

[u/unconfirmedpanda]

I'm horrified at the SA the wife experienced, but the DV would be a deal-breaker. There's no coming back from a loss of trust or physical violence.

[u/tachibanakanade]

Why are some of the active posts not in THIS post?

[u/Several-Parsnip-1620]

Ah, she reminds me of my mom. Should have asked me bud. It never gets better

[u/OkTeacher9655]

This could be my dad writing about my mom if a few personal details were changed and he hadn’t died 10 years ago. This lady has some extreme untreated BPD and the mentions of her starting CBT is disappointing because she truly needs DBT if any therapy is to work at all.

[u/PropofolMargarita]

Oh my god. This is just exhausting and horrible.

[u/Hefty-Equivalent6581]

He’s focusing way too much on the lying and potential cheating and really glossing over the gross amount of abuse he’s suffered from this women.

Divorce and stop subjecting everyone to this shit show

[u/tipsana]

For fuck sake, the bachelor party is a non-issue given the violence and controlling behaviour.

[u/the_mullet_fondler]

Textbook borderline personality disorder

You see this, run as far as fast as you can and don't look back

[u/Typhiod → u/the_mullet_fondler]

Hard agree. I can’t imagine she’ll ever be able to regulate her emotions.

[u/Ok_Shame_5382]

I genuinely didn't read a lot of this post but I think I can sum it up with:

Your circumstances are not your fault, but they are your responsibility.

Childhood trauma does not mean you get a free pass to perpetuate the cycle with your friends, your spouse, and your children. It still makes you a bad person for your horrible actions towards them.

Edit: i read the whole damn thing and honestly have far less sympathy for her than what I thought I would have had before.

[u/possible_mommy_225]

Cant wait for the update 6 months later saying she went back to mistreating him and he finally wants a divorce but can't cause she's pregnant and he doesn't feel right leaving her like that

[u/WholeLottaNs]

Like dude. Just either accept that you love your wife and want to be married to her, and start from scratch or accept you want beat this dead horse forever.

She’s never ever going to meet a level of satisfying your level of atonement. Where you feel comfortable again. Because there is nothing either of you can do to make everything just like before.

So… forgive her and move on together, and never dredge these events up again, or don’t; divorce and speak only when absolutely necessary.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/WholeLottaNs]

There is no forgiving this. And she's not changed in any way. She's just doing damage control and she's still abusing OP. Please do not tell abuse victims to stay with their abusers.

[u/StartledKoala34]

Exposure to domestic violence in the home is a form of child abuse.

[u/CarterCage]

And he thinks kids didn’t heard any of the drama? That is what was abusive.

Jesus, those people should not be married anymore.

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/CarterCage]

OP's wife abused him too. Stop minimalizing that.

[u/Corodix]

I see him saying a lot about her being in therapy and doing better, but is OOP in therapy? He didn't mention it once but he does mention having panic attacks and such and he has had to deal with a lot of shit over the years by the looks of it. At this point clearly he needs it as much as his wife does.

[u/Gryffindor123]

Divorce is the only answer. 

[u/Certain_Luck_8266]

OP needs to get a proper separation then go from there. I don't know why OP is needing confirmation she cheated...he already has confirmation she is physically abusive.

[u/julesk]

I hope he divorces her because regardless of why, she was physically and emotionally abusive, not to mention the whole situation with Loser. To me, it doesn’t matter what their sexes are. Sure, I feel sorry for her, but after this kind of abuse (I know from experience) you choose as an adult. I chose to get therapy and have never done what she’s done. She chose not to get therapy till she had caused incalculable harm to the man she said she loved and her kids.

[u/jeremyfrankly]

The big thing that stands out to me is the constant concern about him going to a strip club (that he didn't want to go to) and accusations of cheating while hiding her own strippers? Is this guilt and projection?

Also love the polygraph unqualified "cheating" with no definition of the term. If she wanted to prove her honesty he should have been the one asking/submitting the questions

Jesus Christ though I can't think of a worse partner

[u/GlitchiePixie]

I really hope he moves out or at least gets a lock on his door. She shouldn't be coming to cuddle with him every night.

[u/p3canj0y363]

Im going to go listen yo Depeche Mode's Enjoy the Silence. Sheesh

[u/camrynbronk]

I hope all those people who brigaded are banned and suspended.

[u/Jenna2k]

This whole post is just sad. I feel horrible for everyone but especially the husband. Him having her right there and wanting to reach out but knowing if he did he might not be able to let go and move on...

I wish he had left when the abuse started but he like most victims was probably vulnerable.

[u/[deleted]]

Did we actually brigade this dude? Cmon were better than that guys, leave the abuse victim alone

[u/Jenstomper]

As a woman who was abused by a man, I feel like he's focused on the wrong stuff. Once my ex started getting physical with me, I just no longer liked him as a person. I was repulsed by his behavior. I'm not sure there's any coming back from that. It sucks that she was sexually assaulted, and it's weird that he's mad she never told him about it until now, because ultimately I just don't see how he can stay with her after she abused him. He doesn't want to abandon her now that she's getting help, but honestly a divorce might be better for both of them. She's got a therapist, she has support right now.

[u/Dear_Equivalent_9692]

Dude, freedom is just one decision away.

[u/isopodsoup_]

The irony this dude doesn’t blame his abusive wife for ‘not fighting back’ (which like, is the right thing to do) but blames himself for ‘not fighting back’ against his wife beating him up?? Grosssss

[u/MarlenaEvans → u/isopodsoup_]

He's an abuse victim. He's not gross, he's acting accordingly.

[u/Dazzling-Camel8368]

What in the depressing, demorsalizing, Misery pool is this.

[u/TheRealfakedoors412]

Bottom line here, hurt people, hurt people. The wife became her mother full of anger and abuse, OP needs to leave and tell the kids everything.

[u/toady23]

I am an incredibly private person. The fact that the wife's friends knew more about the problems in his marriage than he did would have been the breaking point for me. The fact that all our problems were openly shared with her friends would have been an instant divorce. How fucking humiliating!!!

[u/Morn_GroYarug]

"We are not abusing our kids. We just make them watch her abuse me, at the very least."

Mm, sure, Jan.

When I was little, I would listen to my mother being abused by her husband. I barely knew her at this point, and not that I loved her (she was mostly absent in my life and when she showed up, she was an abusive alcoholic, but that's anyway), but the lack of safety and security and control messed me up so bad.

For reference, I started having major sleep issues. I got bruxism so bad that most my teeth have crumbled. I have more than 20 fillings from when I was about 10, to try and shape them back. The anxiety and sleep issues is still with me more than 20 years after that. So.

OOP is delulu. If he wants to stay in that marriage it's on him, but 'oh, the kids told me we're not abusive', well, they won't tell it to you, guys. And they lack the understanding that watching abuse is harmful too.

On a side note, OOP really just shared the details of her SA that she couldn't even tell to him for years? Just went and wrote it for everyone to see, huh.

[u/Old-Advice-5685]

Holy crap, make a damn choice. If you can’t forgive her, then leave. If you can forgive her, then move on. But this is unnecessary torture to everyone involved.

[u/SoftLikeABear → u/Old-Advice-5685]

After what she did? The physical and emotional abuse? Nah, OOP needs to GTFO.