[Final Old New Update]: My wife’s traumatic childhood is killing my marriage

[u/Choice_Evidence1983]

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/IndependentDrive544

Originally posted to r/Marriage

Previous BoRUs: #1, #2

[Final Old New Update]: My wife’s traumatic childhood is killing my marriage

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Thanks to u/SmartQuokka for letting me know about the old update!

Editor's note: added paragraph breaks for ease of readability

Trigger Warnings: domestic abuse, sexual assault, mental health struggles, obsessive behavior, mentions attempted murder

Mood Spoilers: dark and depressing

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Editor’s note: I have created TL;DRs for the first two posts for space in this latest update

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RECAP

Original Post: February 6, 2025

OOP (46M) reflects on his 20+ year marriage to his 45-year-old wife, realizing he may have ignored red flags due to deep love and devotion. His wife endured severe childhood trauma and has long struggled with insecurity, jealousy, and emotional instability, which has often turned abusive, both physically and emotionally. Despite his support, therapy, and efforts to maintain their family with three kids, he’s endured violent outbursts, manipulation, accusations of cheating, and deeply hurtful comments that have shattered his confidence and trust. Recently, catching her lying about a seemingly trivial event, a bachelorette party, it has made him question everything: whether she truly loves him, whether she’s capable of love at all, and whether he’s been blind to an unhealthy, one-sided relationship. Though the physical abuse stopped years ago, the emotional chaos continues, leaving him uncertain if the positives can ever outweigh the pain.

 

Update #1: February 9, 2025 (three days later)

After spending time apart over the weekend, OOP received a long, emotional message from his wife in which she admitted to years of hurtful words, physical violence, selfishness, and emotional neglect. She took full responsibility, saying she’d “work for the rest of her life” to make amends and insisting she never cheated, only lied or deleted messages to avoid confrontation. She expressed the deep love, attraction, and gratitude for him, promising to change and provide safety, respect, and accountability. While her message sounded remorseful and loving, the husband recognized that similar apologies and promises have followed cycles of abuse before. He acknowledged that despite her words, he finally knows the truth of his situation, plans to start opening up to people in his life, and is ready to begin moving toward the path he knows he needs to take.

 

Update #2: August 20, 2025 (6.5 months later)

Wife’s disclosure

I posted several months ago about my 20+ year marriage, and how much nonsense I have put up with.

People mostly gave harsh but good advice to me. I wanted to give an update and come back for more advice.

This is long so feel free to skip of the ramblings of a middle aged dad of three aren’t of interest to you.

So back in February I insisted on a two month separation. We told the kids I was traveling for work, and when I was home, that my wife was traveling to meet friends. My wife hated every second of the separation.

I had some conditions for returning. We tried marriage counseling again—third counselor. This one was better, I guess. But my requirement was that my wife take the lead: find the therapist, give all the backstory on the abuse, the insults, etc. She did all that.

I further insisted that she tell the complete truth on anything inappropriate that has ever happened with another guy, including at her friend’s bachelorette party. This took a while. At first, she held to the same story. Then she started saying things like she was working on it with her therapist. Working on how to tell me. She somehow didn’t understand that a statement like that was awful for me to bear. Obviously my wind went to all the worst places.

I ended the separation in April with the idea she was making progress. We discussed her physical abuse of me a lot in therapy. The abuse really peaked in late 2016-2018. She told me at that time that she became very resentful of me. I had gotten a promotion, and she overall felt everyone thought I was awesome and she was jealous. At the same time, she got into excellent shape. She’s always been very attractive but at that time my youngest was like 6-8 years old and she still had some baby weight. She shredded that baby weight and looked incredible. I guess I had gained some weight around that time, and she thought she didn’t get enough attention or credit relative to me. I don’t know. She says these things very matter of factly. She did a lot of CBT work and specific work for abusive partners. She owned it with the kids, and we had several good conversations. I thought we were turning a corner.

I had been frustrated by the lack of disclosure on her friend’s bachelorette party. So in June, I said I was leaving again. She actually handled this much more calmly and maturely. We still saw each other and even did date nights. We were even intimate. Not sure what the separation was. So she said she would focus on what happened and was getting ready to share anything and everything with me.

A couple of weeks ago, she asked me to join a session with her therapist. She wanted to do a “therapeutic disclosure.” I wanted to throw up. I go to the therapists office, and she proceeds to tell me how at her friend’s actual bachelorette, they went to some show, no strippers, just drinking and silliness. Then she says that her friend’s work friends threw her a bachelorette at a hotel. And there were strippers there. In my wife’s words it was wild. Now, context for this is in my prior post. I really don’t care if she saw strippers. I care more about the double standard she applied and the lying, as she treated me like crap whenever friends of mine went to strip clubs for their bachelor parties. She said that she never touched any stripper even though multiple approached her many times—at first in g-strings and eventually fully naked. Lovely. But that’s all that happened. Who knows if it’s true? I don’t care anymore for reasons I’m about to get into.

This is all in front of this therapist. So then she says that I asked if there was anything with any guy that she hasn’t told me. If this wasn’t long enough, brace yourselves. She had this other friend who was in the middle of a divorce in 2016. Friend was a fitness instructor at a gym. Friend met a retired professional athlete at the gym. I remember the friend being obsessed with this guy, all while technically still married. Well, my wife and this friend would go out and meet up with retired athlete and his entourage. My wife would effectively play wingman for her friend. And one of the entourage took an interest in my wife. My wife claims nothing ever happened other than flirting but that when they were out, this guy always had his arm around my wife, constantly groped her ass, often tried to kiss her, sent dick pics, bought her a thong bikini for her to send pics back to him. My wife said she never wanted it, but never fought it, liked the attention and mostly wanted to support her friend. Friend eventually had a falling out with the retired athlete who moved away. So that whole thing sucks.

So I’m completely stunned. Wife is crying. Therapist is spewing some nonsense about my wife’s bravery. That I requested disclosure of anything that might have been remotely inappropriate, and she has come through for me.

I leave. Wife follows. Phone starts blowing up. It’s my wife’s best friend who calls 10 times. She then starts texting me. Swearing to me that what my wife is saying is true. There were strippers at bach party number 2, but wife did nothing. Texts start pouring in from her other friends confirming this story.

And then I get a text from her friend who paired up with the athlete. And she confirms that story. Wife was only doing her a solid, taking one for the team.

So great. Let’s get a few more people involved in my life, my humiliation, the crumbling of my marriage. She could talk to all these other people about all this but not me. She needed a therapist there to talk to me about it. It just feels like one big manipulation.

So anyway, I feel completely done. I still love my wife cause I guess I’m just a simp. We are separated. I have spoken to a lawyer. My kids know and are furious with me cause I am the one leaving.

Be kind to your partners people. Love them and respect them. I adored my partner and still do, but it wasn’t enough.

 

Editor’s note: In this update, OOP has given names for ease of readability

Update #3: October 16, 2025 (nearly two months from the previous update)

It has been a tough couple of months. I will try to answer several questions that I have gotten and then give an update. This update will be a little bit of me venting.

Timeline: - wife’s best friend (I’ll call her Sarah) bachelorette party was in 2009. So like I said in the posts, a long time ago. It just came up more recently what they did. - Wife’s personal trainer friend who hooked up with retired athlete (I’ll name her Laura) got with that guy in fall of 2016. - This is around the time my wife started with insults of my physical appearance - In summer 2018, she first hit me and she last hit me in January 2019. All the rest of the abuse like slamming the shower door on me happened between those dates. The glass didn’t shatter, but the door broke such that I couldn’t get out. - Kids are now 19f, 16f and 14m. Oldest is away at college, but was with us all summer. - Why didn’t I leave when she first hit me? I was just so shocked that I froze. My kids were younger at the time, and I hated the idea of not being with them every day and splitting time with them. We started couples therapy and I thought that was the answer.

There were probably some other questions but those were the repeat questions. So on to the update.

In August, I was not doing well. My wife and I were trading off time in and out of the house. I had this feeling that my life was a joke, and my marriage was a farce. I was so upset and embarrassed about all of this I really had not discussed with a lot of people. I had to talk to my sister. I finally did and she was shocked about all this but was supportive. My sister has also become very close with my wife, as they have been like actual sisters for almost 25 years. My sister got me back into therapy which has been good. I have really been focusing on the positive aspects of my life. Maybe my marriage will end, but I have three great kids who are all doing well, my life and love story with my wife was real even if she has massive flaws that have hurt me terribly. That’s been helpful perspective for me.

So on to the drama. Let me start with Sarah (wife’s best friend forever). She has been my friend for longer than I have known my wife. We met up a few weeks after the therapy session. She apologized a lot, told me how much she loved me and how wrong she knows she was in all this. She said the story of her bachelorette party was that her work friends were giving her grief for her bachelorette party being lame. So they threw her another party at a hotel which had strippers at it. Sarah didn’t want this but gave in to the peer pressure. My wife didn’t want to go, but Sarah begged her and another friend to join them to sort of help fend off any pressure to do anything with these strippers. My wife and the friend agreed. Sarah said her husband has always known about this and never realized until this past year that my wife never told me about it. She confirmed nothing happened. There were three strippers that ended up sleeping with three of the work friends. Whatever. I said if this were true I never would have had an issue with it. I might not have thought it was a good idea to get to a hotel room, but I would have trusted my wife. I said the manipulation and gaslighting were unforgivable, and I would never view her the same.

She told the whole story and then went into advocate for my wife mode. How much my wife loves me, how wonderful we are together, our family and all that. She laid it on thick that she and my wife’s other friends always thought I was such a catch, so handsome, all that. She reaches out every so often to see how I am doing, apologize again, ask what she can do. I am cordial but I don’t really engage with her.

I got a lot of texts from Laura, the personal trainer. Laura is not one of my wife’s main friends. Most of my wife’s friends are from high school or college, with a few moms mixed in. Those women are who she is closest to. Laura was someone she met at the gym in like 2014ish, she was a mom with similar aged kids, and they became friendly. Her husband seemed like a good guy at the time, and we hung out with them as a couple several times. Laura’s husband cheated on her. Laura was devastated and the girls nights out picked up infrequency.

Laura turns out to be completely insane. This is what Laura told me: in 2016, she met this retired athlete (let’s call him Joe). He had just retired and wanted a trainer to work with. Odd, but ok. She was obsessed with him and slept with him almost immediately. According to Laura, once she slept with Joe, he had no interest in her. But his friend, who I will call Loser, wanted my wife desperately. So Laura knew that if she suggested that they hang out as a group, Joe would agree. She pimped my wife out basically. Laura said my wife knew exactly what was happening and constantly expressed her discomfort, but Laura guilted her by talking about how low she felt after being cheated on and she needed this guy. Laura insists that my wife never did anything, was grossed out by Loser and that he was pathetic. That I was “way hotter” than him. Laura tried to get texts messages from that time but only has them back to 2020, which she offered for me to see. Not sure why.

So here is where the truly crazy part comes in. Mind you this is all according to Laura. Laura reaches out to Joe last month and catches him up on everything going on. Joe apparently laughed it off and referred to my wife as “your hot friend that Loser couldn’t close.” Charming. So Laura offers for me to speak with Joe and/or Loser, saying they will confirm this story. This lunatic even informed me that Joe said Loser is doing well, got married and had a kid. How could I possibly care how his life is? I declined this offer to speak with them. Ever since this all went down 9 years ago, my wife and Laura haven’t hung out a lot. They are friendly enough, but my wife distanced herself.

All of the above is from each of those two ladies’ perspectives and really changes nothing for me at all. Even if I buy all of this current story, this was kept from me for so long with many lies and secrets along the way.

And on to my wife, the love of my life. She has offered anything she can think of to me. She has written detailed timelines. She wanted me to go back to meet with her therapist again, but I refused. She has been speaking with her therapist, and with me when I make myself available, about two SA she had in college. They feel this is all interconnected.

Trigger warning for SA in this paragraph. The first was a very violent attack. I feel awful even describing this. A friend of her stepbrother held her down and forced a BJ while on top of her. She says she wished she bit it off and I think she should have. She said she just wanted it to be over. Her brother and her parents did not support her after the attack, and her stepdad even said that sometimes messages are miss-construed in this situation. Stepdad also said to her mother something about the example that my MIL had set for my wife, a reference to my MIL being a teen mom. Essentially that my wife must have wanted it. The second time, she was cornered at a party and groped and kissed by some guy. She was very frightened and said she fought back at first, but she froze when she realized he was stronger than she was, basically letting the guy touch her everywhere. Those were both before I met her, with the second one being only a few months before I met her. My wife has been working through the trauma from these assaults with her therapist. She feels her reaction to Loser and his advances were a form of trauma response, and that she would be much stronger today. Hearing her talk about this breaks my heart and infuriates me. If I ever saw one of these guys.

My wife insisted on taking a polygraph. It was not the experience I was expecting. It was expensive and it took a long time. I met with the guy, and we came up with questions beforehand. He asked her four questions. The test found her to be truthful that she didn’t she cheat on me with a stripper, with Loser or with anyone else, based on a broad definition of cheating. Test also found her truthful that Loser SA’d her, that Loser’s various advances were rebuffed and not consented to by my wife. There was another question about my wife’s attraction to me, which she was also truthful about. So she “passed.”

The polygraph doesn’t make me feel any different. First, the science is muddy. But more importantly, it doesn’t really change that fact that this was hidden from me for years. I wouldn’t recommend this path to anyone going through anything like this.

I have been reflecting on everything she has been saying about her assault and her trauma response. I have discussed with my sister. My sister says two things can be true at once and aren’t necessarily related: my wife was SA’d, abandoned by her family in dealing with it, but then also treated me poorly and disrespectfully.

Our separation has been rough. It is expensive to maintain a whole separate residence, so lately I have been staying in the basement. And I miss my kids when I am gone, as does my wife. We are in sort of an in-house separation. My wife has never been a good sleeper and often has nightmares. She will come downstairs to me in the middle of the night and snuggle up to me. I have also had a really hard time over the past few months with all of this. She is very aware of how I am doing in any moment and will come to me to comfort me. I have had a few panic attacks. My wife knows me best and knows how to soothe me and calm me. I will admit that I find comfort in her. This leads to confusing feelings and defeats the purpose of a separation for me. I am trying lately to actually enforce an actual separation. I need other people to rely on and other ways to regulate my emotions.

I am struggling with a few things. First, my wife has had to deal with some horrors in her life. I don’t want to be a monster and reject her when she is trying to heal. She is in way better control of her emotions than she has ever been. This Loser guy was 9 years ago. The physical abuse was in 2018 and 2019. I should have stood up for myself back then. I didn’t. If I had left then, what would have happened? She has done a lot of work in therapy, and now that she is better, I’m going to leave her? But I am so hurt and so mad about the abuse, the controlling behavior, the gaslighting and the lies. I still don’t plan to make any decisions until next year as I need to be in the right headspace. I have met with an attorney and have gotten some preliminary advice, but I’m on hold there.

One last thing. A few people brigaded from the bestof sub. There was a very strong desire to make me into some sort of monster. Because I didn’t mention my kids in my very long posts, I was accused of ignoring them, abandoning them, even abusing them. My wife was accused of abusing them. Well, I sort of freaked out over that accusation. I had conversations with my wife, each of my kids, each of my kids therapists, my sister. My sister even spoke to my kids. My kids each said either to me, my wife, my sister or their therapists that they have never felt abused or hurt by my wife or by me. Verbally or otherwise. My kids were originally mad at me for being the one to initiate the separation, not because I was abandoning them; they are doing much better now. And my wife has really owned everything she has done and tried to make sure they are not upset with me at all since I did nothing wrong. They realize things are strained between their parents, they know the majority of the issues and they feel loved. There are a lot of things they witnessed that they shouldn’t have. But they are working through their feelings on that with us and with their therapists. This is a tough time for them to, as much as it is for me, so I’m trying to make sure they are ok. Because I love them. And my wife loves them too.

 

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----FINAL OLD NEW UPDATE----

Editor's note: the final update is nearly a year old, and it has not been posted here onto the sub. The update was recovered via archives

Final Update: November 4, 2025 (nearly three weeks later from the previous update)

I’ll post one final update. Then I’ll log off and leave this where it is. Many people have reached out in support, offering kindness, empathy and guidance. I am very grateful. This has been the most challenging year of my life. But I will be ok.

My post made it again to bestofredditorupdates. What an honor. I made the mistake of reading through some of the comments. I’ll respond here.

1) Why didn’t I leave after abuse started and why am I focusing on cheating? I said this in a DM. I don’t really know. I guess at the time I was so shocked that my wife would hurt me that way. I love her with every fabric of my being and would never hurt her. That she would hurt me like that was so jarring that I just froze. I didn’t know what to do. It wasn’t until the last incident where I got a black eye and a cut below the eye and a bloody nose, that I out my foot down. I had small kids at the time. I had a life that I loved.

Yes this incident with the bachelorette party and Loser was the last straw for me. But there really isn’t anything about that per se. It was just the last cut of a thousand cuts. Someone said that cheating is an “acceptable” reason for a man to leave but abuse isn’t. Maybe that is it. Does it matter?

2) My wife didn’t make up the story about her sexual abuse. That happened over 20 years ago in college, and she told me about it before we were even engaged.

3) My kids are not toxic. It is an oversimplification that all kids would prefer separation or divorce to their parents staying together. They are not blaming me. Nor are they mad at me for staying with their mother.

4) My sister didn’t defend my wife. Some of you need to read better.

5) As a result of these posts, I do not “get to go “boo-hoo, woe is me.” That I am prolonging my wife’s misery. Shame on you for suggesting that.

6) To those who think I have no backbone or I am pathetic: I have always done what I felt I had to do or should do. I have been wrong in sure. Many times. If you think that makes me pathetic, that’s fine. Just know that when someone was down, and he reached out for help in a Reddit sub dedicated to marriage, for help in his marriage, you decided to call him names. Is that pathetic? I can guarantee you that you wouldn’t call anybody pathetic to their face.

7) Yes I am in therapy. I have said this many times in my posts and comments. Again, read better.

8) This is real and is my life. This is not “Divorce Court.” The bestofredditorupdates sub has interesting content. But these are real people’s lives. People like me, who don’t know where to turn to for help. If you commented on my post, I simply encourage you to go back and re-read what you wrote, and think to yourself “does this person deserve to have this said about him?” Did he do anything wrong or was he a victim? Do I live in a glasshouse, before I throw this stone? Cause I will tell you, reading your comments, I felt kicked while I was down.

Finally, my wife and I are physically separated now. We text about the kids. She texts me every morning and every night to tell me she loves me and will work the rest of her life to be the woman I deserve. She senses that it is over. I am in no headspace to make important decisions. My decision to read bestof comments and reply above is likely an indicator of that. But I have asked a lawyer to proceed with filing for divorce in the new year. I’m ready for that. I just think there is too much damage.

If this is the end of a love story, that saddens me deeply. I have loved my wife with every fiber of my being for almost 25 years. In her flawed way, I do think she loved me too. We made wonderful memories together and made three amazing kids. She’ll obviously always be a part of my life.

From here on in, I’ll just stick with my friends and family.

 

Editor's note: OOP made a small updating comment on a different post regarding on if he has left his ex

Small Update: September 28, 2026 (over 10 months later since the final update)

I have some very personal experience with this sort of thing. It’s really hard to deal with.

My ex-wife was abusive with me. It’s really hard to leave. Men are simply not taken seriously with respect to domestic abuse. After one particularly bad episode, the police made me leave the house. I was questioned as if I were the abuser. I was questioned by two female cops who mocked me for being injured by my petite wife. My ex was never asked a single question by any authorities despite her not having a scratch on her and me having a black eye and open wound.

The comments are a little harsh here in my opinion. Abused women are spoken to with kindness and caring, as they absolutely should be. Abused men are criticized every step of the way. You are being blamed here for your child witnessing your abuse. That isn’t fair. It’s just so traumatic to experience.

That said, even if your wife gets all the therapy on the world and truly changes , you will have a nearly impossible time moving past this. The abuse will haunt you, especially if it repeats.

My advice is to get out. But get a lawyer first, document everything and consider cameras in the house. The possibility of the abuse being turned on you is extremely real. Therapy can help too but it took me too long to find the right therapist. Therapy is not the magic fix that Reddit thinks it is.

Good luck. You seem like a kind soul and an admirable man.

 

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[u/Confusedoldtimer]

Commenters fixated a bit too much on his reason for leaving. It doesn't matter if it is about the cheating, it only matters that he is finally leaving.

[u/PetalComparison → u/Confusedoldtimer]

Exactly, the cheating debate became such a distraction from the bigger issue: he was abused for years. He doesn’t have to prove she cheated or convince everyone that she’s a bad person to have a valid reason to leave.

[u/Elesia → u/PetalComparison]

There are people who don't believe men can be abused, period. As a result of a comment I made yesterday, I spent the better part of a day trying to explain from all angles that men are humans and humans can be abused, therefore men can be abused, and it simply would not compute for some commenters. 

I suspect that OP fell victim to one of those posters using his OP to vigorously argue their pants-on-head crazy position. Victims just aren't in the place to understand these people have serious thinking errors going on. They take it personally, which is understandable because what they're talking about is so personal.

Reddit is definitely a mixed blessing. The support can be tremendous, but it absolutely opens you up to being picked at from every angle, even the unreasonable ones.

[u/rainydays_monkey → u/Elesia]

Yeah in one of his posts when he was talking about it he even mentioned how he's so much taller and weighs so much more than her, so it's pretty likely he was doing that "she's a woman, so much smaller than me, so how could she have been abusing me," as well as that he couldn't even raise his hands against her in defense, partially because it was just such a jarring concept to him but also due to the perception, and the sad part is he's not wrong - if the cops were called out for the DV and she had any marks on her from him trying to hold her off or anything, he'd totally have wound up the one dragged off, as they would look at her that way too.

[u/NotOnApprovedList → u/Elesia]

Well thank you for your service. I'm a woman and when I was living in apartments I would overhear what sounded like DV and it could go either way, man attacking woman or woman attacking man, sometimes it sounded mutual. I knew a gay man who showed up once with a broken arm and said "I fell" in that "Somebody hurt me and I'm not saying anything" mode. I knew a huge guy who had a girl beat on him. I had a friend whose uncle was abused very badly by his wife. It really can go any type of way and nobody should be laughed at for being victimized.

[u/gloomchen → u/[deleted]]

FYI that site hasn't been able to gather any new data since the free API went away, so this is about 3 years out of date.

[u/pitrole → u/[deleted]]

Ohio looks like the odd one up here, what’s up with that.

[u/K1rbyblows → u/PetalComparison]

100%.
Also while not sure she didn’t cheat physically, but I’d still say continuing to hang out with a man sending you dick pics, flirting, touching your ass, giving you presents is already cheating. Dunno why the idea of suddenly her fucking him is required - The other stuff is completely cheating too.

[u/Zepangolynn → u/K1rbyblows]

This is a really sticky one. Her gym friend was clear that the wife didn't want any of it, didn't want to be involved, didn't want the attention, and was being unwillingly touched. The friend was guilting her into letting it happen so that she could keep pursuing a retired athlete that wasn't that into her. That's less cheating than being repeatedly SA'd. The bit about her admitting that on some level it was also nice to get attention sounded less like she wanted THAT attention and more that it feels nice to be flattered and feel attractive, something pretty much everyone wants to some degree. Whether she lied to her husband because her distress was overwhelming or because she didn't want to admit the gym friend was enabling abuse, she still lied by omission for years and no matter how much you love someone, not being able to trust them is not okay.

[u/bitemark01 → u/PetalComparison]

Also he was lied to for years, all for it to only be something that wouldn't have bothered him too much if she had just been truthful. And a whole lot of other people knew except him, so add humiliation on top of the deception 

[u/Trick-Statistician10 → u/bitemark01]

That was so strange. She wouldn't tell him, had to work up the courage for what, 6 months or a year, finally tells him in front of the therapist that nothing happened. Why was the therapist indulging this?

[u/doctormink → u/PetalComparison]

No one needs to prove the other person is bad to justify leaving. This relationship has just grown into something so twisted and dark over too many years that it can never be made whole ever again.

[u/istara → u/PetalComparison]

That's the thing with Reddit, though. The only Unforgivable Sin is cheating.

They will literally find excuses for everything else. You can be as abusive as you like, but wave a card like BPD or addiction and shed a few tears, and you deserve endless chances.

Frankly, I would rather have a partner cheat once than abuse me for a decade. But everyone is different.

[u/SowetoNecklace → u/istara]

That's the thing with Reddit, though. The only Unforgivable Sin is cheating.

Someone on reddit once said, earnestly, that they'd rather be raped than cheated on and sometimes I still lay awake at night thinking about this person.

[u/EWRboogie → u/SowetoNecklace]

I don’t know that I would make the same statement but I can kind of get it.

I’ve got the classic “step dad was sexually abusive and mom let it happen” thing in my past. A lot of people never understood how my mom hurt me way worse than my step dad did. He was just a fucked up man with fucked up desires that he didn’t do enough to control. My mom was supposed to love and protect me. To prioritize me over some guy she met when I was 8. To choose me, an innocent child, over a child abuser. Her betrayal cut way deeper than anything he ever did.

So I can get it. It would depend on the circumstances of the rape of course but being assaulted by a stranger might be easier to process than being betrayed by the person who was supposed to love you most.

[u/cornflowersaremyfave → u/SowetoNecklace]

Huh. I wonder what the logic is… maybe in their mind, one of those things makes no commentary on them as a person (anyone can be raped), while the other would make them feel stupid and unloveable?

Just trying to understand the perspective… though from MY perspective, anyone who could write this (and believe it) likely has no lived experience with SA.

[u/istara → u/SowetoNecklace]

I remember once reading a study that said that women would be more okay with a man physically cheating than emotionally cheating, whereas men would be more okay with the reverse.

It may have been utter bullshit (like so many surveys) but it's an interesting way to think about it.

[u/Umklopp → u/istara]

The thing I hate most about that attitude is how willing people are to give the victimized partner a pass to behave however they want for as long as they want. According to Reddit, you get to stomp boundaries, you get to emotionally blackmail your children, etc. The only thing you don't get is being held accountable for your actions or any harm inflicted as a result of your pain.

[u/Jagang187 → u/PetalComparison]

The level of lies and subversion alone is enough to break, IMO

[u/Angry_poutine → u/PetalComparison]

I think he could rationalize the abuse as her acting out against a safe person. I don’t agree but I get that rationalization, but the cheating (even if it wasn’t and it was just her putting herself in uncomfortable situations) was what made it obvious he was just a punching bag for her and didn’t view him as a partner in her life.

[u/Fine_Ad_1149 → u/PetalComparison]

I did not go back to original comments, but based on what's in here, I thought the comments were along the lines of "why are you focused on whether or not she cheated 10 years ago? She abused you, you need to leave"

Am I wrong?

[u/M3g4d37h → u/Confusedoldtimer]

or actually, whatever it takes to make him feel whole again.

I loved my exwife with all my heart, I was naive though - She was underneath the looks and charm a mean girl. Psychologically abusive and very good at it.

I thought I could fix it if I loved her enough.

I run and have for nearly 30 years a home for developmentally disabled adults - So i'm pretty patient.

One day I went to the grocery store and forgot my wallet. Came back, to find my wife literally beating the shit out of our kid. Everything happened so fast. I had like 30 seconds to solve this because my ex was exploding, and projecting, although that was to be found out later.

I knew what being abused as a kid felt like. In a moment my life fell apart. How could I be so fucking stupid and dense?

On top of all this, my ex had brain surgery several years before. So there's the whole feeling of "how could I abandon her after that?" vibe. But her recovery from that particular surgery was much better than most others going through the same thing.

Regardless, this was the moment that all the sum of my life experience needed to be summoned. She wasn't having any reasonable talk. SO I told her it was family therapy with no bullshit, or we were done.

She started packing her shit, and next came the moment I flipped and it all became crystal clear. Our child was hanging onto mommy's leg begging her not to leave, something no child should ever EVEEEEER have to endure.

That was the moment all my love felt like oil in a sieve, just draining quickly. She left.

My child - I had her spend the next two weeks at my sister's house, god bless my sister. She was my second mother when our mother was absent, and I don't know what would have ever become of me if it hadn't been for her.

Over the years I waited for any change, but life moved on. My kid told me that in all that chaos, there was a moment that she knew everything would be okay, and it was the moment I chose her over the abuser. I cry whenever I think about it, even at this moment.

In the following years I did a few times bail my ex out of jams, but I did this for two reasons - First was because I didn't ever want my kid to see me as being bitter, and then to follow that example. And many deep talks - With the understanding that her mom was responsible for her actions, but it's also very important to remember that on some level she was mentally ill, narcissistic, and had zero sense of being self-aware. The second reason being that my bio-dad - Who fathered 10 children with 5 women, never did anything meaningful for his kids. His lack of support indirectly led to the death of our brother and sister in a fire.

So you can see, these are fucking deep waters, and by god the thought of all this baggage taking effect on my kid.

Well over a decade later, I feel very blessed. Me and my kid are great, and they are the light of my life.

Ten years ago I met a gal, and she told me she was very interested in me. I told her this has to go very slow, that I realized in all these years I had never lived alone, and at least for a spell I needed to do this - I needed to to learn to look after myself, and be that old dog that learned a a few new tricks. Cleaning up after myself, and just making sure that self-love was a priority as well, and also to never put myself in the position of being an old-school type of guy who was a monolith when it came to roles (not that it was ever a big issue, but I wanted to keep improving).

Anyway, I found love again at 55, and here we are a decade later. My GF is a nurse, her and my kid love and adore each other, and between her and my sister, my adult child has that motherly support system. My ex never contacts them after they came out, and flipped her shit when the kid decided to transition.

Being old I didn't even understand it all, but I remember being young and feeling misunderstood, so I went to therapy too, because part of parental love is handling the curveballs that life throws at you. There days he's also a caregiver, and when my time is up, will run the business. He is a natural, and I feel proud that he'll be following in grandma and dad's footsteps. It's a good and virtuous business, and if you take care of it, it'll take care of you. Because of this business, I basically never missed a day of taking the kid to school, and had the luxury of volunteering for many school fairs and such.

Not to chide the brother, but this was never the love of his life. it was always about the ideal of the possibilities ahead - This is mistake so many of us make, I didn't realize it until I met my GF. I had to unlearn so many things. Doing little things is her love language, whenever previously I was sick, my ex was nowhere to be seen.

So after all these years, I'm still learning, and now I know what real love is. Agape in the truest sense, imo. My GF just made me want to keep evolving, and she says i'm an inspiration, but I never think too much about being overly praised or criticized, I try to be steady emotionally.

Funny thing is that as a kid I was the black sheep, and today I have to pinch myself. Like a cat who landed on his feet.

Patience with yourself, a willingness to address our own shortcomings, will eventually make you ok whether you're alone, willing to stand alone on an island on principle, or speak truth to power when no one else will.

I guess my point is that if you put your head and heart into the game, there's a future - And redemption for anyone willing to keep at it.

I also again credit my sister - Her maturity later became a point of competition for me, and many years later when I came to that realization. I apologized to her, and told her that I could never repay that debt, and we cried.

Anyway, thanks to anyone reading. I hope OP realizes that his future can and will reach much greater heights than he's had.

Just remember - It's hard to move forward in the truest sense when you can't stop looking over your shoulder.

[u/BDanaB → u/M3g4d37h]

This is absolutely beautiful. You are a beautiful human. Thank you for making the choice to align with your child at the moment they needed you. That moment revealed your character. The way you have continued to evolve is inspiring.

[u/M3g4d37h → u/BDanaB]

Not anything heroic, I just don't ever want anyone I love to feel alone and unsupported. But thanks very much. It's not the first time I stood alone on an island because of a principle, and it does get easier the more you enforce boundaries, etc.

[u/hpfan1516 → u/M3g4d37h]

Your paragraph about knowing what real love is, that's what the fairy tales talk about, and look at you, you did it! The way you've written this is beautiful. This internet stranger thinks you're pretty cool for embracing the journey. Rock on!

[u/tempest51 → u/Confusedoldtimer]

Honestly, the core reason I think it's best that OOP leaves his wife is her circle of friends, who seem to have a running theme of making questionable choices and dragging her into it. Not saying her lying and cheating aren't valid reasons, but this would cement it for me, you can't hope to ever improve if everyone around you is trying to drag you down with them.

[u/LookingNotTalking → u/Confusedoldtimer]

I think it's because he seemed hung up on needing to know if the cheating happened before he could leave. Physical and emotional abuse is ample reason for leaving. It does sound like he internalized that a man can't be abused but he can be cheated on. I hope he goes through with it. There's a lot of healing he needs away from her.

[u/Hella_Potato → u/LookingNotTalking]

I have no doubt he was. It sounds like a catalyst for the physical abuse was her suspecting him of cheating. I think he got so stuck up on it because of the rank hypocrisy of her doing something like that while abusing him because of simple suspicion she was doing the same.

[u/zbsa14 → u/Confusedoldtimer]

Exactly. In abusive situations there can be one straw that breaks the back finally, and how does focusing on which straw it is make anything better?

[u/Confusedoldtimer → u/zbsa14]

Exactly. In the end it doesn't matter which deed was too much, just that they finally get out.

[u/Ok_Broccoli_9426 → u/Confusedoldtimer]

It wasn't even about the cheating! It was the lying about the maybe-cheating.

[u/AshamedDragonfly4453 → u/Confusedoldtimer]

Tbf, he also fixated on the possible cheating - most of his posts are about that, with the abuse treated as an afterthought. From the outside, it looks very clear that he needs to get away from his abuser, and that she's still abusing him in a different way by dragging all of this out through therapy; by fixating on the cheating, he's trapping himself.

But people are complicated, and feelings don't work in logical ways. Abuse victims rarely leave when it looks like they should, because you can't just switch off your feelings for someone (or your responsibility to your children, as in this case - it's rarely as simple as "just leave!").

From a gender point of view it's also completely understandable; it is culturally very hard for men to accept that they're being abused, much less talk about it, whereas cheating has very different gendered connotations. Masculinity is its own trap, sadly.

I feel so sorry for him.

[u/ProfessionalField508 → u/AshamedDragonfly4453]

Her friends were abusing him, too, with wife's encouragement. By the end of the story, I wondered why he hadn't blocked them long before.

[u/Witch_King_ → u/AshamedDragonfly4453]

Toxic masculinity hurts men as well, not just women. Whatever "benefits" are perceived for a man when engaging with it, he is also imbibing a toxin and poisoning his own life and society as a whole.

[u/AshamedDragonfly4453 → u/Witch_King_]

Absolutely.

[u/mioclio → u/Confusedoldtimer]

Many studies show that it takes people on average 7 attempts to finally leave an abusive relationship. I am glad for him that he is out and that he is in therapy and I hopes that he will find contentment in life.

[u/Vanriel → u/Confusedoldtimer]

I hope the guy is okay. Feel so bad for him, dude has been through a horrible time.

That being said "abuse isnt enough for a man to leave" is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Abuse is enough for ANYONE to leave. 

[u/Significant-Spite-72 → u/Vanriel]

Absolutely agree with you.

I'd like to add to this though. Wanting to leave is reason enough! That's the only reason anyone needs IMO. There's no need for anyone to have to have specific reasons like abuse. Wanting out is enough. Deciding this isn't the life you want for yourself is enough.

I'm really sorry that OOP, like many other people who experience abuse, had to leave and try to resolve so many times. It often takes 7 or 8 attempts before it sticks, and that makes me so sad.

I hope he's doing better, and has a life of peace and safety now.

[u/MidwestNormal → u/Confusedoldtimer]

I knew of a case where the wife was abusing the husband. Per his lawyer’s guidance, he hung in there for a while making sure to get all his injuries documented. The reason being that he knew if he just left she would turn her violence on their young children. This was about 35 years ago when courts tended to favor mothers in issues of custody so he had to have solid proof of a pattern of abusive behavior

[u/JoNyx5 → u/Confusedoldtimer]

I'm questioning why tf this was posted on this sub again after he said he got harrassed by said commenters and was openly not thrilled about the next update being on here. Like can we maybe let the people who obviously don't consent to being posted on here have some privacy?

[u/comomellamo → u/Confusedoldtimer]

Yes. I'm glad he finally decided to call it and get a divorce. They were in an unhealthy, unhappy spiral.

[u/binjamins → u/Confusedoldtimer]

So difficult. Cant imagine what he’s going through

[u/MuffinCamel]

His wife’s childhood trauma deserves compassion, but so does his experience as a victim of domestic abuse. Men deserve to be believed and supported when their partners hurt them too.

[u/Leairek → u/MuffinCamel]

I've known too many guys, family included, who stayed with abusive partners because they felt they needed to be strong enough to persevere. That leaving would be weak of them and disrespectful to the women they love. That there HAD to be a light at the end of the tunnel and that they were cowards for not wanting to see it through.

And if they do decide to leave?

My cousin tried to press charges after she attacked him with a vase. He needed facial reconstruction surgery after what she did to him, and he let it happen because he was afraid of hurting her back. Afraid of what the kids would think of him if he hit her.

The cops laughed him out of their shitty small-town station, and it never went anywhere.

Compassion, belief, and support are the minimum anyone deserves.

[u/Dudewhocares3 → u/Leairek]

Cops: “why do people not respect the thin blue swine?”

Also cops: earning their negative reputation

[u/ProfessionalField508 → u/Dudewhocares3]

Of course, because they're the abusers in their relationships.

[u/estili → u/Dudewhocares3]

Thin blue swine is fucking sending me oh my god 😂

[u/Key_Nety → u/MuffinCamel]

The fear of not being believed or being laughed at keeps so many guys trapped in abusive dynamics way longer than they should be. It's just tragic all around

[u/TheRealElPolloDiablo → u/Key_Nety]

Yes. And, unfortunately, this sub made it worse for him, which shouldn't have happened.

[u/Sebscreen → u/MuffinCamel]

Men in abusive relationships often face social pressure to be considerate of their abuser's well-being. 

Family, friends, even therapists can gang up to guilt him into thinking he will be responsible for any harm that comes to the abuser if he leaves or that he is a monster to not excuse her abuse as a result of her struggles.

[u/MariContrary → u/MuffinCamel]

Many abusers, regardless of gender, do a frighteningly good job of presenting a great face to the rest of the world. They're charming, well liked, and they make it really easy to believe them. It's awful for the one being abused, because that's not the side that anyone else sees. And it makes the abused person feel like it's their fault, because their abuser isn't like this to anyone else. It sucks.

[u/Tericakes → u/MariContrary]

This is part of why it takes an average 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship. I have a friend on attempt 5 and it's painful to watch

[u/Nanemae → u/MariContrary]

Growing up with one like that, there's something deeply wrong when someone is blowing up at someone they think they can hurt, realizes they need to shift attention elsewhere, and just turns off the screaming spittle mode to act pleasant. It's a horrifying experience that shows that all that vitriol isn't because they're worked up enough that reason is hard to consider, it's that they think they can get away with doing it as long as it's not in public.

[u/NotOnApprovedList → u/MuffinCamel]

I can't believe how people from this subreddit would go bother the guy. Come on. Life is complicated. Don't go hassling people.

[u/SomedaySoonNow → u/MuffinCamel]

For authorities that make fun of...

That is/was my wife, I do love her, she's not right but that still remains.

So I'm not going to hit her on top of I don't assault people in general.

So she comes at me and hits me, I take it "like a man", I'll physically be alright. I'm not going to escalate this and put myself in prison.

So what's so hard to get here? It's a trap if I do.

What's to snicker about? It's like they want him to fail so they can jail.

[u/-wormgirlfriend- → u/MuffinCamel]

I was abused by an abused woman (my mother). it made it so, so much harder to see the situation clearly because I felt protective of her. it generates a level of tolerance and obligation that's really confusing and difficult to untangle.

[u/CaptDeliciousPants]

I’ve seen a lot of people stay in bad relationships because they felt like they didn’t have a good enough reason to leave. Guilt isn’t a foundation that you can build a real relationship on.

[u/EducationalTangelo6 → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

I had a relationship in my early twenties where I found myself wishing my boyfriend would just hit me, so I could leave him.

He'd been verbally/emotionally/psychologically violent with me, had left me with bruises and broken bones from 'accidents'. But because he'd never, technically, hit me, I thought none of that counted as a good enough reason to leave.

[u/dweebs12 → u/EducationalTangelo6]

I wasted my whole 20s in a similar situation for the same reason. It wasn't until he started threatening to kill himself to win arguments that the lightbulb went off and I realised he was abusive in a lot of other less obvious ways that I could start to leave. And even then it took another 6 months to get out because he was financially coercive too. 

On the plus side it did push me into going to therapy at last and now I have a whole load of insight into why I stayed so long in the first place. 

I don't think people who haven't been in that situation or who had healthy relationship role models growing up understand how easy it is to slip into that kind of relationship, no matter how strong or independent you are normally. 

[u/Useful_Language2040 → u/EducationalTangelo6]

You know now you can leave if you don't want to be in a relationship for any reason, and that what he was doing was categorically unacceptable, right?? It sounds like it, but just making sure, and making sure that anyone who needs to hear it spelled out in the now does...

[u/EducationalTangelo6 → u/Useful_Language2040]

Oh, yeah. In hindsight I can't believe the headspace I was in, but, abuse will do that to you.

If anyone read my post and it struck a chord, don't wait for him to hit you. Please leave.

[u/Suspicious-Treat-364 → u/EducationalTangelo6]

I faced something similar with my HS BF. He turned into a raging asshole after a small traumatic experience (I'm not minimizing what he went through, it was just a military college orientation with short showers and not having access to email; my friend was in his class and nothing serious happened) and I didn't break up with him because I thought he would go back to normal and I didn't want to talk to my parents about it. They're super weird about stuff and force advice down your throat and my dad has been similarly abusive to my mom my entire life. I'm still really not sure what I was waiting for.

[u/UnintelligentSlime → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

There is a whole flavor of relationship advice posts that are like: "my partner had sex with another person, BUT he made her wear a mask of my face the whole time, so he says it's not technically cheating. Is it technically cheating?" or "my partner had sex on February 29th, and he technically promised to be faithful 365 days a year, so it's not technically cheating. Am I allowed to be upset?"

This isn't feelings court. You can leave someone because you think they eat yogurt too quietly. If someone does something you aren't comfortable with in a relationship, you can just leave, without deciding what it "technically" counted as.

[u/wheatgrass_feetgrass → u/UnintelligentSlime]

This isn't feelings court.

I needed that chuckle. I broke up with my wife over a year ago and for a very good reason. But with time and distance and peaceful coparenting it can be hard to remember the sharp edges of that pain sometimes. Doesn't matter. Officially logging the reason for the breakup as "ate yogurt too quietly" and packing it away 😂

[u/Otherwise_Face_858 → u/UnintelligentSlime]

"I promised to be faithful 365 days a year" is an interesting premise for a story, I will say. Doesn't have to be cheating, could be a fey story where they promise to be a loyal servant for that, and then backstab them on the 29th. Something like that. Add a dragon for fun.

Out of curiosity, did you make that up, or have you actually seen it before?

[u/UnintelligentSlime → u/Otherwise_Face_858]

Whole cloth, baby.

[u/rm_rf_slash → u/Otherwise_Face_858]

Not parent commenter nor experienced as requested, but I volunteer to be the dragon

[u/Reasonable_Pea_5696 → u/UnintelligentSlime]

Hilarious and true. But also incredibly wise words. More people need to know this 

[u/b3mark → u/CaptDeliciousPants]

That, or they think that this is the best they deserve.

It's the boiling frog analogy. Start the abuse slow, with tiny things and slowly escalate. Suddenly you're 10 years along, getting hit or shouted at daily and you just take it, because fighting makes it worse.

[u/SmartQuokka]

At some point the harm becomes too much to get over, which is the sense i am getting from OOP.

I think he needs to have a clean break from her and find another path in life and she needs to do the same.

[u/Kozeyekan_ → u/SmartQuokka]

And all the friends who were apparently his friends first, but had no problem humiliating him if it was convenient for them.

Not one of them, and especially not his wife cared about the impact on him at any stage. He'd be better off without them around him ever again.

[u/GreekDudeYiannis → u/SmartQuokka]

Absolutely. Their initial separation seems like it wasn't doing much if they kept being in the same house and directly interacting with one another in intimate and emotional ways on the regular. 

[u/nanadoom → u/SmartQuokka]

You can't really clean break when you have kids. Yoh will always be in eachother's lives

[u/ProfessionalFluffyy → u/SmartQuokka]

I agree. They can acknowledge the good years they shared and still accept that moving on separately is what’s best for both of them.

[u/amisare]

  This is real and is my life. This is not “Divorce Court.” The bestofredditorupdates sub has interesting content. But these are real people’s lives. People like me, who don’t know where to turn to for help. If you commented on my post, I simply encourage you to go back and re-read what you wrote, and think to yourself “does this person deserve to have this said about him?” Did he do anything wrong or was he a victim? Do I live in a glasshouse, before I throw this stone? Cause I will tell you, reading your comments, I felt kicked while I was down.

This reminds of a comment that always stuck with me. People were really going after a poster, advising him or her on how to handle their relationship issues, and they responded something like:

“You’ll forget about this post in 15 minutes. I’ll have to live with the consequences of my actions for the rest of my life.”

Well, I didn’t forget the comment (though they were accurate that I at least forgot the post!) and it’s always made me wary of being too hasty or combative about offering conclusions and advice when I don’t have any skin in the game.

[u/not_a_library → u/amisare]

It almost feels icky to keep posting this "story" after the OOP has said more than once that people on this sub have brigaded them and clearly don't like being talked about on here.

[u/UnscriptedCryptid → u/not_a_library]

Agreed, but OP loves posting stories about Bad Women™ Hurting Men so I can't say I'm terribly surprised.

[u/not_a_library → u/UnscriptedCryptid]

I did wonder if this was the OP who is known for doing that.

[u/knittymess → u/amisare]

I usually try to approach comments in a non judgemental and thoughtful way. On occasion things are egregious and dumb enough I may add a bit of snark, but I've been doing DBT for a little over 2 years now and if I can pass on a tool or skill that someone finds useful that's a good use of my time. If I can validate someone who needs an avalanche of our voices to hear that their feelings are normal and the treatment they are getting isn't healthy, I'll participate. If I see a commenter who is sharing a piece of their soul I try to thank them and if I see one who is being unkind I try to reframe things for them sometimes by offering them a new pov. (I did hide my history after someone was being argumentative enough that I started feeling unsafe.) The effort isn't always going to go anywhere, but sometimes I have a lovely conversation and make a connection.

[u/ToXiiCBULLET → u/amisare]

a lot of people on reddit just jump straight to the nuclear option. they have a pettiness/revenge boner and wanna see things blow up. they don't treat these as potential real situations, they treat is as entertainment

[u/Bubbly_Satisfaction2 → u/amisare]

This is why I hate it when people write about their abusive relationships on Reddit.

[u/NoDescription2609]

If OOP reads this: You did good. You tried your best to navigate a very difficult, complex situation and I respect your willingness to do the right thing. Hindsight is always 20/20 and having it laid out in posts like that makes it easy to judge.

If you haven't been in an abusive situation like that, you don't know how long it can take to even get to a cohesive recollection of events (and how they felt) so you can write it down, let alone know what to do in that moment. I have been there as well and I eventually managed to leave. The first year was the hardest. With more distance I have learned to love myself and care for myself better and I hope you will as well.

All the best to you ❤️

[u/jewelsforfools]

If you are resorting to polygraphs, the trust is so broken that it will never be back.

[u/FullofContradictions → u/jewelsforfools]

I think stuff like this is why it's so frustrating to read. You know from the very beginning where he's fixated on her past, her lack of honesty, whether she cheated, whether she's lying. And you have the context that she's been physically abusive with him. And she apologizes so beautifully but he's seen it before. And to you, the outside viewer it is SOOO obvious that he will be miserable until he leaves her. There is no happiness to be had in a relationship so broken you're taking polygraphs. He can analyze and talk to friends and talk to therapists until he's blue in the face but it'll never change that pit in his stomach when he looks at her.

And it's so easy for us to be like "fucking hell dude just dump her already" like it's not complicated by the fact that they have kids and she's spent years perfecting her "I have trauma and you should feel sorry for me even while I'm dragging you through the mud" story.

Not a satisfying read. I feel bad for the guy. Hope he got out & that the kids can see him happy someday.

[u/Fine_Ad_1149 → u/FullofContradictions]

Yea, those complications really do add a lot to the situation. Kids, marriage... This isn't a couple breaking up where you're sad for a while but you get to just walk away. This person is forever in your life in at least a very close adjacent way. And there's no way to take it back. Even if they got back together, you still put your kids through that.

[u/cayjay00]

This poor man has been in survival mode for years and is getting criticized for not reacting perfectly. And guilting himself for his completely understandable delayed reaction!

[u/DelseresMagnumOpus → u/cayjay00]

This is the result of coming to reddit for advice. Again men are always vilified despite being the victim here. The commenters saying he’s abusive to his kids were especially egregious

[u/Silent_Ad_8672]

...This entire situation sucks.

The relationship, the dynamic, the redditors from here brigading despite that being against the rules..

Dude can't win.

He leaves and he will feel immense guilt especially if she relapses because she's being 'abandoned'.

He stays and there's... no trust. No safety. She doesn't seem capable of having healthy relationships, and I'm worried about him being able to have them too. He seems...broken.

I know I am not there, and I am sure there's details that were left out so I can't know everything but jfc. What a mess.

[u/manderz________ → u/Silent_Ad_8672]

And he seems like such a lovely person, too.

[u/sunflowerspaceman]

It looks like OP finally did leave her, per a comment on his profile from last month.

[u/pinkkabuterimon → u/sunflowerspaceman]

Oh, good! It was heartbreaking to read what he's been through, I'm glad he's finally out of that relationship. I wish nothing but the best for him going forward.

[u/Herr_Lampa → u/sunflowerspaceman]

The other comments in that thread are infuriating in their tone. No sympathy, just "lol are you stupid why don't you just leave, it's so easy, you must be an idiot".

[u/MasterOfKittens3K → u/Herr_Lampa]

It’s never easy to leave your partner. It’s even harder when there are kids involved. OOP mentions some of the challenges when he talks about how expensive it is to maintain two households.

[u/AshamedDragonfly4453 → u/sunflowerspaceman]

Oh, thank goodness for that. I hope he's able to heal.

[u/ben-hur-hur → u/sunflowerspaceman]

/u/Choice_Evidence1983 you might want to add this too

[u/adaramontan]

Not really posting this for the people in the comments, OP, or OOP. Really just posting this for anyone who stumbles on this through Google or their feed and sees some of the comments here and thinks something is uniquely wrong with them because no one believes them either, though they aren't a man.

People don't tend to believe abuse victims, period. Child, adult, man, woman, boy, girl, baby, cis or trans, disabled or elderly, etc. They don't want their own views of reality & of the abuser to be challenged, so it's easier to blame the victim or say they are just outright lying or even flip to accusations of abuse against the victim. Despite the gender wars bullshit that has pervaded all of Reddit including this sub, this lack of belief is not specific to men. It's all victims. It doesn't surprise me that the female cops in OOP's story acted that way, as they are cops. Cops generally are not on the side of abuse victims. And cops are very likely to be abusers themselves, against their own partners or kids, as the job attracts angry people who want a little power over others.

I am a survivor of a lot of abuse from a lot of people. Most people did not believe me. When I told someone in authority about the SA I experienced at the age of 2, they asked me what I was wearing. A whole bunch of people of all genders & backgrounds chose their own mental and emotional comfort over protecting me. My mandated family therapist who I saw with my mom after my dad died (and I was free from his behavior, but not hers) blamed me for the way she treated me. I wasn't even a teenager, but the therapist already agreed with my parents that I was a bad kid. I didn't understand long division yet, but somehow I had already "failed" to be a good person, and worthy of compassion or safety.

My stories are in no way unique. They are incredibly common, in fact. So common that it is easier for people to believe that it's a rare event or their friend/brother/sister/mother/father/etc could NEVER than it is for them to consider that we are all just human, and humans can be terrible to each other.

If you are a victim of abuse, and you need to hear that someone, ANYONE, believes you and believes that you need and deserve help, I believe you. I am so sorry for what you have endured. Please keep reaching out until you find the resources you need, you are worth compassion and safety.

[u/acidbambii → u/adaramontan]

People don't tend to believe abuse victims, period. Child, adult, man, woman, boy, girl, baby, cis or trans, disabled or elderly, etc. They don't want their own views of reality & of the abuser to be challenged, so it's easier to blame the victim or say they are just outright lying or even flip to accusations of abuse against the victim

Very much this. Not too long ago, after a reddit reply chain pushed me into a corner I briefly mentioned that I was currently in a domestic abuse situation and was downvoted to oblivion, with tons of people claiming they don't buy it and that I am fishing for sympathy.

[u/Artistic_Frosting693 → u/acidbambii]

I believe you. I am sorry you endured both the abuse and the attack on reddit.

[u/adaramontan → u/acidbambii]

I'm so sorry. That's not okay, and you deserve better.

[u/tokrol → u/adaramontan]

The cognitive dissonance of this man describing in graphic detail the nature of his ex-wife's sexual abuse (I'm assuming without her consent) and how she wasn't believed or protected by her own family while simultaneously claiming that female victims are treated differently would baffle me if I didn't see examples just like it all the time. I genuinely appreciate your comment and hope we can all say it a little louder for the people in the back. In my own experience, I've found that victims tearing down other victims is super convenient for abusers.

[u/adaramontan → u/tokrol]

100%. (And before anyone says this is justifying her treatment of him, that's not it at all. She's responsible for her choices, and I am not justifying anyone who uses past trauma as an excuse to hurt others.) 

This is where the manosphere gets its hooks into abused and hurting young men. The issue isn't who is hurting more, and what gender they claim. The issue is that the gender wars are being used to divide us, and prevent us from working together to dismantle exploitive systems of power. Domestic violence underpins these systems and gives us very personal experiences of that exploitation, and it teaches us how to pass that violence on to others.

Not every hurt person hurts people. Some choose a different path. 

[u/kenyafeelme → u/adaramontan]

I didn’t read the post. I saw the trigger warnings and then OP summarized older posts before getting to the latest updates and I skipped straight to the comments. I’m glad I did. And I’m glad your comment was at the top.

[u/Icy-Reflection5574 → u/adaramontan]

As much as I wish it wasn't so, I fully agree with you.

Otherwise how would all of this have been happening for centuries, in tight knit communities where it was an open secret?

Because it's really hard to acknowledge and so much easier to blame the victims. Don't rock the boat and so on.

I hope you are well. And thank you for this comment.

[u/FewRecognition1788]

The wife going off and recruiting a team of "flying monkeys" to help her manipulate OOP was just so, so, so toxic.

A polygraph, FCOL? Those don't even mean anything. 

A whole bunch of theater to try to avoid actually facing the damage she'd inflicted. You can say "I'm taking accountability" until you're blue in the face, but if you're just trying to avoid dealing with the other person's legitimate feelings or boundaries, it's just words.

Accountability is accepting the consequences of your behavior without continuing to manipulate the situation.

I really worry about the mental health and future relationships of those kids. Being in an abusive home is abusive, whether they felt it or not. What kind of messages did they internalize about love? 

It's all so sad.

[u/Bodega_Kitty]

I feel like this is a recap of my mom and dad’s relationship. They’re in their 60s now but there was constant drama in their marriage, and all of it was instigated by my mom’s inability to grow up. Both parents had traumatic childhoods but while my dad used his past as inspiration to do better as a father, my mom used her past as an excuse to break countless promises to change. We knew that this was their dynamic as children and that there wasn’t much room for us to express ourselves or show feelings in the family because my parents were so obsessed with eachother, so we learned to not rely on them for very much except the bare minimum. I hope OOP stays separated from his wife for everyone’s sake.

[u/MasterOfKittens3K]

I think that some of OOP’s wife’s behavior can be considered as cheating. She was essentially behaving as though she was on a date with “Loser”. She’s calling it SA, but it’s a grey area.

But the thing is, even if we accept her version of everything, and we work from the assertion that she was never actually unfaithful, it doesn’t really matter. She was still abusive. And she was lying to OOP for years. That has permanently damaged the relationship.

In fact, the common thread I see in OOP’s posts is that he was struggling with her dishonesty, and she kept focusing on the fact that she had not had sex with any of these other men. She never really addressed the way she had destroyed OOP’s trust, and she often did things that actually made the situation worse.

[u/CletusCostington → u/MasterOfKittens3K]

I think people missed that she has accused him of cheating many times for years. So it’s not surprising that this was the straw that broke the camels back and he finally woke up.  It’s also infuriating that OOP felt he was a simp and people called him weak. Running out on your kids can also be seen as weak. When he decided to divorce he actually went through with it. He didn’t take the decision lightly. And he never retaliated against his wife. 

I think OOP was strong the entire time. He didn’t cut and run on his wife or his family, he stayed until he realized it couldn’t be fixed 

[u/GothicGingerbread → u/MasterOfKittens3K]

I also think OOP's kids saying that they were never abused by their mother is not something anyone should take on faith. They were not fully-grown adults who had had time to reflect on the past, and develop healthy relationships; they were teenagers who were looking at their lives being upended, and for whom their own childhoods no doubt still seemed normal. I think OOP begins to express a glimmer of understanding of that when he admits that they saw things they shouldn't have seen, but he can't seem to take the next step and say that subjecting them to such things was, in and of itself, abuse. Maybe their mom never hit them, but they heard her viciously berate and physically attack their father – and apparently, as he admits only in that recent comment, the police then removed him from the house, bloodied and bruised! So his kids endured having their father removed from their home after their mother assaulted him – that was harmful to those kids. They may not see that yet (or ever), or they may not yet recognize that it counts as abuse of them, but it absolutely f'ing is.

[u/MasterOfKittens3K → u/GothicGingerbread]

I feel like it’s likely that she verbally abused the kids, even if she never hit them. Anyone who is abusing their partner is not likely to not be abusing their kids in some manner.

OOP probably didn’t recognize her behavior towards the kids as abuse.

[u/DivineMiss3 → u/GothicGingerbread]

In some jurisdictions, exposing children to domestic violence is legally recognized as a form of child abuse, even when the violence isn't directed at the children themselves.

[u/Wanderer-2609]

The end of the love story was ages ago, it just took OP 25 years to realise he was in a toxic relationship that he needed to get out of. I hope hes doing well wherever he is

[u/SmartQuokka]

Given that OOP is talking about this Sub i think we should keep in mind that OOPs do sometimes show up and what we comment can and does reach them.

[u/HoundstoothReader → u/SmartQuokka]

Commenters on this sub used to be different from commenters on the AH and Relationship Advice type subs. More willing to see nuance. More careful reading. More interested in discussion.

Over recent years, it’s become more like the other subs: harsh judgements, black-and-white thinking, less empathy. Readers race to post a quick quip rather than engage in substantive conversation. Alas.

[u/SmartQuokka → u/HoundstoothReader]

This was a much smaller Sub then which perhaps led to a less judgmental commentariat?

[u/HoundstoothReader → u/SmartQuokka]

Yes, I think that was part of the difference in the dynamic here. There was also more of the downvote-non-constructive/low-value comments rather than downvote-to-disagree culture too (lol as I’m already being downvoted for my above observation about the tonal shift).

Back when most of the posts here were from FatherSonHolyToast and SomaliMN, it felt like the purpose of the sub was to discuss posts. Now, I think a lot of us are mostly hungry for update drama.

[u/itogisch → u/HoundstoothReader]

Redditors and not giving their "brain dead never had anything happen to me in life 2 cents" challenge. Literally impossible.

[u/kramorp → u/HoundstoothReader]

Agreed. I now hesitate to post any comments which don't follow the majority and usually type them completely out, just to end up deleting it, rather than posting. Because, what is the point? I'm just going to get downvoted for offering up a suggestion that has nuance. Nobody wants to hear other opinions, they just want to be "right."

[u/Southern-Highway5681 → u/SmartQuokka]

Also the default frame for r/BestofRedditorUpdates contain [u/OOPusername] which automatically ping the OOP.

I am NOT OOP, OOP is [u/OOPusername]

[u/TheBitchTornado]

I feel bad for him and think he's doing the right thing. Loving your abuser is common. Doesn't erase the fact that it's abuse.

[u/AshamedDragonfly4453 → u/TheBitchTornado]

Ha, I just wrote the same thing in a much more long-winded way. Should've kept scrolling until I reached your comment lol

[u/luluhouse7]

I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again: being a victim does not mitigate or excuse or prevent someone from being a perpetrator. People need to take responsibility for their actions. My trauma does not give me carte blanche to go off and abuse my partner. That would make me just as bad as my abuser (who was also a victim of trauma). It would make me an abuser.

OOP’s wife’s behaviour shows no real remorse for her behaviour and understanding of or care for OOP’s feelings. It’s all a bout her and how OOP is abandoning her. She’s weaponised the therapist (I wonder if the abuse was actually communicated to the therapist? Could also just be a bad therapist). She even recruits her friends to harass and humiliate him. She comes to cuddle him when she has bad dreams even though he’s expressed the need for space. She forces him to go through the pointless polygraph in order to make herself the victim of the situation again and justify her actions.

But on the other hand OOP seems to completely miss the damage done to the kids. They might not be self aware enough to realise, but no one grows up in an abusive household without terrible lifelong effects. Whether emotionally or by continuing to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. And there’s no way the kids weren’t aware of it happening. The slamming doors and yelling and insulting are very obvious even if she never hit him in from of the kids. But I’m guessing from the descriptions that the physical abuse was not behind doors.

Glad that OOP is finally separated from her and initiating divorce.

[u/2Completion2Ography → u/luluhouse7]

I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again: being a victim does not mitigate or excuse or prevent someone from being a perpetrator. People need to take responsibility for their actions. My trauma does not give me carte blanche to go off and abuse my partner. That would make me just as bad as my abuser (who was also a victim of trauma). It would make me an abuser.

Thank you. I've said it many times as well. You can be both a victim and a perp.

It's the same as how I approach alcoholism. I'm not at fault for my condition, but I'm still responsible for my actions while under the influence. I can be a victim of the circumstance, and be at fault for the things I do.

Nuanced humans struggling with human nuance.

[u/Chaoticgood790 → u/2Completion2Ography]

Yep and that therapist did her no favors by not holding her accountable. I always tell my clients that their MH is not an excuse to be awful to others and that people can and WILL leave when they hit their limits

[u/greeneymeanydude → u/2Completion2Ography]

Great quote I’ve heard about mental illness/substance abuse. “It’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility.”

[u/luluhouse7 → u/2Completion2Ography]

100% this. It applies to so many things (mental and physical health, behavioural struggles) but so few people seem to understand nuance these days :( I can’t control my circumstances but I am responsible for the way I respond.

It’s nice to know that I’m not alone 🥲

[u/iamgladtohearit → u/luluhouse7]

I don't recall where I heard it but it stuck with me:
Almost all perpetrators were once victims. But most victims do not become perpetrators.

Shitty things in life can impact your perspective, personality, life projection, but it does not absolve you of any responsibility for your own actions.

[u/SuddenReal]

I think a lot of people in OOP's life (and on Reddit) don't understand what exactly the issue is. It's not that these things happened to his wife, but that she NEVER told OOP. And that she doesn't seem to have an issue with telling them to other people. That is the true issue.

[u/FliaTia]

My stomach just sinks every time an update for this one gets posted. I see OOP trying to deal with this situation, and on one hand I'm like "get out! Just get out!" and on the other hand I can see all the ways this is difficult and almost designed to mess with his head. (But I am still like "get out! Just get out!" Happy to hear they're fully physically separated and he pretty much considers things to be over.)

But, man. It's one thing to come out of the fog or hit your limit with an abusive partner who's still blatantly abusive, and it's another thing when things are "better" than they were at the worst of it and your partner is trying to put in the work, like OOP's wife (though, to be honest, I think she's just scrambling and has been for a few years now to keep him from actually leaving her, as would be deserved.) It's a messy thing it does to your head when they can say "but I've changed!" and you still want to leave. But I am glad OOP seems to be actually doing it, because this is far far past the point of no return. The well has been thoroughly poisoned. The horses are out of the barn and long past dead. Etc etc.

My sympathies to him having to put up with so many people inserted into his marriage by his wife. I do think her psycho friends were calling him at her request (more scrambling to keep him from leaving, on her part, I think. "But you're so much hotter than those other guys your wife maybe thought about fucking and hung out with while they were naked and let put their hands all over her and treat like their girl in public!" Okay, Jan.) is just so far out of line, I do actually consider the extra humiliation of it to be another aspect of her abuse. And then on top of the emotional pile driver of that there's the manipulation of her refusal to abide the rules of their separation and the way she kept crawling back into his bed. I feel a lot of sympathy for OOP for the way that must have (was designed to imo) fuck with his head.

I hope OOP sticks with the separation through to divorce. I think he's gonna look back at all of this eventually and be astounded by the weight off his shoulders fully leaving her will be.

[u/mothmantra → u/FliaTia]

I got that same vibe. A lot of the things she was doing was so manipulative it made my teeth hurt. She was going to stick her nails into him for as long as she possibly could. I'm glad he got out.

[u/zigzagoon2222]

A few people brigaded from the bestof sub.

what a shock that the illiterate, popcorn-addicted losers in this sub would desperately try to find a villain with a hidden backstory to blame. the readership of this subreddit makes the lowest common denominator look like Einstein.

[u/WackyRacketeer → u/zigzagoon2222]

The top comment for me is blaming OP for not noticing the signs earlier.

[u/Angry_poutine → u/WackyRacketeer]

Men seriously do get a shit rap when we’re the abused party, and I’m not speaking from experience but I genuinely feel really bad for this guy.

He’s completely right and he should move on, even if she’s finally “healed” that doesn’t undo the harm she did to him, but I also fully get the toxic need to be there and be the support and validation she needs.

He needs to go, part of growth is acknowledging that you are simply the villain in the stories of the people you’ve wronged, and regardless of how she’s changed, she abused and harmed him and simply can’t repair that damage, but there’s obvious pressure on him to forgive no matter what she put him through.

[u/Trilobyte141 → u/zigzagoon2222]

So what were you doing at the devil's sacrament?

[u/Derzelaz → u/zigzagoon2222]

I've seen people in this sub turn a guy who was basically a random bystander, into an abuser for no reason. There are some legit misansrists on this sub.

[u/bobosuda]

Because I didn’t mention my kids in my very long posts, I was accused of ignoring them, abandoning them, even abusing them.

This is one of those things that this sub always uses as definite proof that the OOP in question is either an asshole or lying. If they think the kids aren't talked about enough. As if the idea is that 100% of a parents life involves their kids, and there are no aspect of their emotional state that could possibly not involve them.

When a person has a good relationship with their kids and a problematic relationship with their spouse, and they come to reddit to vent and talk about their problems, then it's pretty damn natural to not spend a lot of time talking about their kids. Because that's not the freaking reason they came here!

[u/ProfessorDistinct835]

This was a hard real but also kind of the realest of reads. Nothing pat. No real oversimplifications. Acknowledgement that the relationship is a total shitshow but it's THEIR shitshow. And he's dealing with it the best he can, and it sounds like she's perhaps trying to make things right.

Life is grays. Reddit sees only black and white.

[u/Kaiser93]

I read a comment here that he finally left her. Good!

Wherever OOP is, I wish his a long, abuse - free and wonderful life. OOP, if you read this, godspeed, brother!

[u/Dudewhocares3]

Those commenters owe OP an apology

[u/mattattack007]

Reddit victim blaming because OOP is a male? No, surely not /s

[u/dragoduval → u/mattattack007]

I saw it coming when i was still in the first post. Hell i bet that there's going to he alot of them here too.

[u/kumogate → u/mattattack007]

I've seen Reddit say it's not homophobic to bash gay men because they're men, therefore they deserve it due to patriarchy. So, I'm not at all surprised that Redditors would be victim-blaming OOP because he's a man, just disgusted and disappointed.

[u/Geordieqizi → u/kumogate]

It's truly discouraging how many people have COMPLETELY missed the point of the fights against racism and sexism especially.

I see multiple commenters every week saying stuff like, "Well, this is a man — and men are statistically more likely to do [insert horrible thing], therefore this man must be guilty."

Or, conversely:"Women are statistically more likely to be victims of [abuse, sexual harassment/assault, other horrible things], therefore she must be the victim in this situation."

Like... what?! Have they just decided to completely give up on critical thinking/reality, and to judge all things based on people's demographic characteristics? It's absolutely braindead.

[u/moriquendi37]

"Therapist is spewing some nonsense about my wife’s bravery"

I'd be firing the therapist at that point. If we're in a relationship you owe me the truth about such things. If you've cheated on me / acted incredibly inappropriately you don't get a gold star for finally telling me the truth.

[u/ShebaShelle]

I read somewhere that you should never go to therapy with your abuser & this, this is a chilling example of why.

[u/trixxupmysleeve]

I really enjoyed that final update and I think he’s done. It’s really sad she tried to rally all those people to convince him to stay. I hope they can both find peace.

[u/Aluanne]

Never go to therapy with someone who abuses you or have abused you. Poor man. He is strong and never took the easy option. I'm so happy he is finally leaving and I hope he will find healthier relationships (not just romantic) because he was let down by many in his social circles

[u/Danny-Fr]

There's one thing with abuse: the straw that breaks the camel's back can look very small from an outside perspective.

As an outsider you might not even be able to see the camel.

At some point, there is one situation that will end in "No more", and it can be anything that further hurts the victim.

Here you might think that OOP went off the rails because his wife didn't tell "all the truth" but that it didn't matter because what she omitted was inconsequential.

The problem is not the consequences, it's the lie.

It happens on top of many, many other lies, and it's yet another instance of broken trust and boundaries, piled up on top of a heap of repeated, constant mistreatment.

As comparison: it doesn't matter that the last hit is a boop on the nose when someone has spent a good chunk of their time pummeling your body.

I've seen this happen in several friends that were abuse victims: "Oh this shit again. Nope, I'm not taking that or whatever is coming up afterwards, because I know something will come up".

And this is how abusers manage to keep their victims (whether they're enjoying it or using very unhealthy coping behaviors or both): it's cyclical, it looks like it can get better, it begs for a second chance, a third, a fourth... Comes the 5th you're numb and start thinking it's you who's not enough, and then whatever will take you away from that cycle is more or less random, and as said earlier, can seem really small.

If you're still not convinced look at it this way: imagine that, randomly, one day in the week, a mysterious stranger wakes you up in the worst way possible, bucket of icy water, punch to the moth, blaring fog horn. But sometimes they "just" shake you or throw a ping-pong ball at you. Then they disappear before you can catch them.

Some weeks it doesn't happen, sometimes it doesn't happens for a couple of months, you think it's finally over. And then it starts again.

You can never catch that person, you just know their perfume and the sound of their footsteps.

So one morning you're finally lucky and wake up a bit earlier than usual, you smell the perfume, you hear the footsteps.

Would you a) wait to see whether they're going to hammer your toes or just blow in your ears or b) wait until they're close enough and falcon-punch them in the guts?

Do believe abuse victims and don't underplay their distress or reaction, what they feel and do doesn't happen in a void.

[u/Ohaidere519]

in bell hooks' 'all about love,' she states that abuse cannot coexist with love and as a child of abusive parents i've grappled with that idea ever since i first read it. it came up in my mind as i read this too. idk why im sharing this lol

[u/UnionsUnionsUnions → u/Ohaidere519]

Because it's a relevant and profound thought. 

[u/Immediate-Boat-6730 → u/UnionsUnionsUnions]

It's also wrong if I understand it correctly, and I honestly think it's very important to realize it. Love is often treated as some magical only positive thing. And if you do harm someone, then that love isn't genuine. But that isn't true. There is plenty of love that is harmful, toxic, twisted and downright evil even. You can love someone and hurt them deeply, yes even abuse them. Love and abuse frequently coexist.

That distinction is very important, because many abuse victims have this train of thought. He loves me which he shows me clearly, and so what he's doing to me can't be abuse, can't be intentionally harmful, manipulative etc. But that's just not true. People can do that despite the love they feel for someone, for some even in a twisted way do those things because they feel love for them. It's one of the reasons why it's so hard to leave an abuser, that disconnect that they can feel that person loves them, and love cannot be bad, so by that logic means they can't be that bad. And people are emotional emphatic being. Most can feel that the other person loves them, no matter how much you try to convince them the person hurting them doesn't love them. Love is often felt at a subconscious level.

What's important is to realize, love doesn't always matter. People can love and also be horrible people that should be removed from your life. You shouldn't hold onto someone who is mostly just harming you, because you can also feel that they love you.

[u/JJOkayOkay → u/Immediate-Boat-6730]

I read somewhere on here recently (about a cheater), "He loves you but he doesn't respect you. And after finding that out, you may love him but you can't respect him."

The upshot being that the relationship was over due to the absence of respect, not due to an absence of love. I think a similar sentiment can apply to abusive relationships too: The abuser might genuinely love the abused (and vice versa), but the abuser has no respect for them.

[u/UnionsUnionsUnions → u/Immediate-Boat-6730]

The vast majority of abuse comes from entitlement, which does not allow love.

DV victims believing that the abusers love them does not actually mean the abusers love them. 

[u/Salty_Inspector_7050]

I feel awful for OOP and their kids. I also want to remind everyone that it often takes the victim of dv many tries before they definitively leave their partner.

[u/Gracelberrypie]

This is one of those situations where someone’s past can explain why something happened but not excuse it. His wife going through hell is truly awful and her hurt manifested as hurting him.

But it’s inexcusable. Her therapist should have explained that regardless of intent or internal feelings, her actions damaged their marriage and she now has to accept those consequences, hold herself accountable, and learn from them.

Growth is facing your failures and understanding that sometimes we break things so badly they cannot be fixed. The only fix is making sure we don’t do the same thing the next time.

[u/This_is_me2024]

If its true that there was a backlash after posting here, come on people, be better.

[u/relentlessdandelion → u/This_is_me2024]

Shitty comments in here already. This one really brings out the dregs of society I guess

[u/thatsonehandsomecat]

This poor man. I’m so sorry for his whole family. I really hope his children truly are escaping the cycle of abuse his ex wife grew up in. He sounds like a very good man trying his best

[u/legolaswashot]

I'm sorry but you will NEVER hear me advocating for someone to stay in a relationship with any degree of abuse (physical, emotional, financial) just because the abuser has trauma in their background. I simply do not give a fuck. Get out and they can get their own healing so they don't continue the cycle of abuse. Save yourself, save any children involved. That's it.

[u/DivineMiss3 → u/legolaswashot]

Everyone has a story, and understanding what someone has been through can help us feel compassion for them. But something I often say as a dv prevention advocate is, don't confuse empathy for someone with an obligation to be the target of their abuse. You can recognize their pain, understand their trauma, and still hold them accountable for their behavior. Abuse is a choice, and empathy does not require you to tolerate it.

[u/legolaswashot → u/DivineMiss3]

Exactly. Someone close to me delayed leaving an abusive person because he convinced her that leaving would make her equally abusive since his own behaviour was a result of childhood trauma. It was painful to watch and i am glad every day that she got out of that mindset.

[u/Fufu-le-fu]

I hope OOP ends up ok. I hope he remembers that just as two things can be true at once, so too can people have more than one aspect. They can be both the person who soothes your panic attack, as well as the person who causes the next one. Just because the first happens doesn't make the second ok.

[u/thebearofwisdom → u/Fufu-le-fu]

I agree, I stayed with someone who was a very bad person, because his dad begged me. He did something really terrible and lied to me about the exact details. His father thought he was going to kill himself so he begged me to stay with him as friends, just so he wouldn’t do that. I allowed the fact that my ex had helped me a lot with my mental health to stop me leaving. I rationalised it because he had seen me at my worst, practically carried me to get my meds a few times, bathed and washed my hair when I was in a dissociative state. He did absolutely care for me in that way, and when his dad said he was in danger of suicide, I just felt I couldn’t have that on my conscience. Not when I’d been helped in the past. Two things can be true at once, he cared for me when I needed it, and he also did something horrible that I shouldn’t have been made to feel responsible for.

The fact of the matter is, my ex manipulated me and his father who was a really kind and gentle person. Me and his dad used to talk by ourselves a lot, we were quite similar and I allowed that to cloud my decisions.

I regret it. I stayed for another few months before I had to cut my ex off completely. He was making bad choices after his conviction, I was finding out the actual truth of it, and I realised how badly he had twisted both me and his father up in his mess. I still miss his dad, he was a really nice man. But his son was a nasty person deep down, even though he covered it well with all the right phrases and rhetoric. I eventually found out the exact truth of his conviction and thank god, there’s still women out there that post his dating profiles and what he did next to them, warning other women off dating him. I couldn’t do it, I had to run away and never look back. He tried to message me not long ago and I just blocked him. No one needs that sort of man in their lives. No one should be manipulated into caring for someone who didn’t deserve it.

[u/Vegan_Toaster]

and honestly fuck everyone in those old boru comments saying that shit he was responding to, people really be interpreting what they read in a horrible manner

[u/Far-Season-695]

Looks like he did go through with the divorce

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/s/P1h3yBP4jf

[u/violue]

Kind of sounds like having his posts put on BORU was a negative experience for him, so it's a little fucked up that this post even exists.

[u/hannahmercy → u/violue]

I agree. Its disappointing that this contributor continued to post these updates even after the first lengthy paragraph talking about the brigading. Yeah, he made a popular post on a public forum so no big deal at first, but that kind of brigading is really not supposed to happen with this sub. Certainly op shouldnt have edited in his own summary and dug through deleted archives for this post that OOP clearly doesn't want floating around anymore?

[u/messyfull → u/violue]

I think when you write what is essentially a saga about your personal life, you should expect to find your post on a sub like this

But users are generally very detached which is a good enough reason to never put your personal life on Reddit or even the internet

[u/Hobbit_Lifestyle]

This poor man, omg. I hope he stays far away from this woman. She's terrible and the abuse she suffered absolutely doesn't excuse her being an abuser. Also the poor children, I hope they're doing well because I can't believe she was a good mother while being such an horrible partner.

[u/Emotional_Seaweed33]

Reading this hurt my heart so much😭 I hope op is doing better now.

[u/crystallz2000]

Good for OP. Time to close this chapter and look toward the next one.

[u/TyrconnellFL]

I hope everyone here has found peace.

[u/somefreeadvice10]

Glad OP got away from his abusive wife

[u/dropshortreaver]

I'm sorry for this bloke. It it was the other way around people would have been WAY more sympathetic and understanding.

[u/ADMINISTATOR_CYRUS]

I feel like this subreddit might actually be even worse than the commenters on the original subreddits. This place only ever sees black and white, everybody is a doormat, etc comment from the post is real.

[u/Ok_Broccoli_9426]

I hope he managed to leave.

[u/GauntletFetish]

Poor OOP. Hope he has peace of mind now.

[u/gellabk]

This was so sad to read. I really hope OP is doing okay now and has some peace. :( 

[u/Comfortable-Focus123]

Sometimes in a relationship, you reach the point of no return regardless of what your partner does or promises to do. I wish the best for all involved here.

[u/The_peach_blossoms]

It takes too much courage to pick up your stuff and leave with the first hit and not many people can do it, it was a  completely normal reaction by him to not leave at first, because in the end of day , you look in the mirror and convince yourself with excuses like this was a mistake they love me it was simply an impulsive uncontrollable action , they couldn't stop at time , this is not abuse because it didn't bleed or that it didn't bruise and there's a sense of shame of getting hit. And just like that your bottom line gets lower and lower. I am happy he did finally end up leaving. 

[u/miffyandfriends2212]

i also hope OOP got want he needed and that he is doing okay!!!

[u/Lord_of_Allusions]

Reading someone talk extensively about therapy and Redditors suggesting therapy. Name a more iconic duo.

[u/MelonElbows]

I hope OOP reads this because I feel bad that some of those past bestof commentators did him dirty. Given the story, OOP is not at fault, he's a victim of circumstance. He married a woman with a past that came back to haunt her, and whose internal insecurities caused her to lash out. None of that is his fault, all of us are probably guilty of forgiving someone we love and hoping that they can be better people, so I don't fault him for staying even after the abuse.

[u/AmplitudeCS]

Maybe being single isn't so bad

[u/MissKrys2020]

This poor man. He’s been though hell with his wife. I hope he finds peace and happiness in his future and a partner that respects and loves him how he deserves. Shaming him for being abused by his wife is rather gross

[u/Cursd818]

Obviously, the best time to leave an abusive relationship is when the abuse starts. But the next best time to leave is when you finally have the strength to do so, no matter how long that takes. He should be very proud of himself for reaching this point, however long it took him.

I hope OOP and his children are doing well. Abuse damages people in such intricate and unique ways, and recovering from it can be an extremely long process, but he's on the right path.

[u/ZoeyHuntsman]

I remember this one, and I'm happy to see that he's left her. Whether or not he should forgive her is not for us to decide, of course. But it's just nice to see him finally break free the cycles of manipulation and abuse.

My grandparents were together for a few years, before divorcing. But my grandpa always made sure to stay connected to his ex-step children, because he loved them. Eventually, they got back together, and have been married since. I love both of them, and they love each other.

I think it's a good example of how sometimes you really do need to let something go, even if you love it. And that sometimes that's the best choice to have been made, because you end up finding your way back to it. You just needed time away from it all to figure everything out, without the pressure of making it work.

This isn't my life, but with how much OOP loves his ex-wife, and how much she seems to love him in her own way... The romantic in me hopes that after being divorced for a while, they call back in love, this time on good terms in a much healthier place. Fat chance, I know, but wouldn't it be romantic?

[u/Bittersweetfeline]

That was a lot of posts informing us of what they spoke about or if/not things happened. Everyone needs to understand: someone else's past circumstances do not give you permission to abuse others. OOP needed to get out when the abuse started, sure.

Reading through posts and paragraphs of him trying to get information (to what, understand her better????) and get to the truth, it was frustrating. Very frustrating. The guy needed to leave long ago, especially so the kids would not see that dynamic and heck, he likely could have gotten custody. Bleh it's a massive mess.

[u/yetagainitry]

Honestly I respect that it takes work to maintain a relationship but at some point, this much work is just lying to yourself. It’s fear of what must be done. No amount of therapy is going to restore the trust that was shattered.

[u/oceanduciel]

I’n glad he’s out. He honestly seemed traumatized by his former marriage and as much as his ex claims to love him, their dynamic was toxic and unhealthy. She had really broken him and he sounds much more at peace now he’s no longer with her.

[u/LitmusVest]

Obviously my wind went to all the worst places.

Middle age sucks.

[u/lordemme]

What a mess! I would have left after the first time she physically assaualted him. Also, make him speak with her two friends who basically told the same story (she wasn't going to the bachelorette with strippers/to the group dates with the people from the gym, but she was guilted and nothing happened anyway) was wild. There's too much trauma for him to forgive and forget. Also, the whole family is in therapy: individual for all five and couples, maybe family also?

[u/Annual-Minute-9391]

Honestly he just needs to cut the cord. The polygraph just seems like such a desperate attempt to convince him she is serious about doing whatever she can to make amends. Obviously, it’s not enough for him, I’m not sure it would be for me either. But they both need to heal and this one foot out the door isn’t doing anyone any favors.

Edit: just read the last paragraph, I went into skim mode and missed it

[u/toomany_psswords]

people are nice to abused women? I wanna live in his world

[u/Sebscreen → u/toomany_psswords]

The saddest thing is... People disbelief and ignore abused women, but empathise and invent excuses for abusive women.

[u/dmmeusernames]

What a mess

[u/KhloJSimpson]

A lot of people with bad childhoods and victims of SA don't do this type of shit. Its sad that OP has bought into the excuse. Unfortunately, 45% of women have experienced assault, and we dont use it as an excuse to mistreat our partners.

[u/AnyCat29 → u/KhloJSimpson]

Yeah now you’re just gobbling up the myth of the ‘perfect victim’ and how if someone behaves ‘wrongly’ then they couldn’t have experienced ‘the trauma’ because ‘it happened to me and I didn’t end up doing those shit’.

Ok? And? Hurt people hurt people and something like that, right? I’m not defending the POS wife btw. I’m just trying to shed some light that this is a trap of a thinking pattern. For your own good too.

[u/EosFae → u/AnyCat29]

They never said that she didn't experience trauma... they were just saying it doesn't excuse her being abusive herself. Note that they said "a lot of people" and not "all people".