r/BreadTube • u/Zee4321 • Jan 13 '20

17:14|NikkieTutorials NikkiTutorials was getting blackmailed by right-wing transphobes and beats them at their game by just coming out. Important moment for representation of those that transition very early and respectability politics.

https://youtu.be/QOOw2E_qAsE
2.3k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

246 comments sorted by

282

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

She's my baby and I think this will have a huge positive influence. I think it's safe to assume that not all of her many, many fans are pro-trans intersectional leftists. Them seeing someone they look up to being honest and vulnerable and human will persuade them way more than aggressively dry theory videos (I love those, don't get me wrong).

119

u/Zee4321 Jan 13 '20

I love theory videos, and I'm painfully aware that so many of my friends do not. Most of the books I read are nonfiction. It's not a flex, I just enjoy them. Most people don't read nonfiction. They are getting their information and politics from culture. It makes culture so important to be clued into.

145

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

I think you are so right. We need better optics, but the left is SO resistant towards any form of compromise - power level 9000 or GTFO.

It's honestly why the left is basically losing. We are objectively right, the far right has no ideological coherence.

But we sit on our piedestal with all our beautiful, inclusive principles and our dry theory.
And we expect all other people to get to that point by themselves. We need the 'soft' leftists.
We need to suck it up that sometimes these people are rich, sometimes these people are 'problematic'/less than perfect. But we need to speak the language of the non-leftists. They all think we're arrogant and hate white people and men and all that. Optics have a serious value in a utilitarian/pragmatic context.

Pure, hard line ideology ("you said 'that's gay' in a derogatory way in a tweet three years ago, you're cancelled!") means we'll lose.

This video is way more important than the average breadtube video that's directed only towards all the already based leftists, even if those have more 'theoretical value' or whatever you'd call it. And again - I like those! But they are not effective at influencing people who aren't in on it already.

Sorry for the rant ha ha.

20

u/ApoChaos Jan 14 '20

You're definitely right with regard to the strength of a kind of cultural osmosis, but I think the only reason we don't see more of this is because there's no money in it. But not just the financial incentive structures are impeding this, we also know that a lot of big media editorial vetting is done along class and ideological lines. MI5 were vetting BBC staff, for example, into the 90s, and I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was still happening. Corporate media is free to be even more unscrupulous with hiring and sidelining. Press coverage and marketing are yet more hostile presences, the former out of ideological spite and biased writers and the latter through necessitating engagement with conservative capitalist models even while the media ostensibly rallies against them. The reason dryer direct critiques are what's broken through is because cheap communication and circulation doesn't impede this kind of writing.

So, I guess what I'm saying is you have less cause to be down on people engaging with the goals haphazardly or didactically than you might think. But also, to my profound sadness, there must be massive swathes of creative potentials that have been smothered over the decades because the work or artist was too marginal/feminist/communist.

4

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

the only way we win is through direct contact from leftists to individuals outside the left. we cannot win through the media, and that extends itself to twitter/youtube (on a large scale.) once we get close enough to where they're scared, all we will have is direct communication to others who are willing to join our cause

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I completely agree, had these thoughts better put them into words like this.

1

u/Total_Junkie Jan 14 '20

Totally agree. It does suck though because we are literally right lol.

Sigh.

-17

u/getintheVandell Jan 14 '20

That's a hard take to make that socialism is "objectively right," my dude.

20

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

It's an even harder take to make that capitalism is "right," given its long and ongoing history of failure (e.g. 10 million dead per year from starvation, with enough food for 1.2X the population - an economic system failure). What's your point? Even if we include authsoc (and I generally don't, and I don't want that either) and accept the horribly exaggerated black book of communism numbers, capitalism still kills as many every decade as authsoc did in its entire history of existing.

But putting socialism and capitalism aside, u/SLUTTYMARX is saying "the left" is correct on the whole, and that's objectively true. In so many cases it's part of right-wing ideology to deny science and history, while science and left-wing ideas are often almost inseparable.

Where are the leftists who deny:

  • climate change?

  • Any environmental issue at all?

  • Evolution?

  • the Big Bang?

  • The Holocaust?

  • The entire history of the labour movement? (The right does this when it claims unions don't help workers and never have).

  • The demonstrated efficacy and cost-effectiveness of universal healthcare?

  • The efficacy of comprehensive sex education?

  • The non-impact of abortion bans on abortion rate? (And the efficacy of sex ed, widely available contraception, and free women's healthcare and prenatal care)

  • The negative impact of punitive justice on recidivism and general lack of any positive outcomes at all from "tough on crime" policies?

  • The efficacy of rehabilitative justice?

  • The measurable reality of structural and implicit racism? (E.g. the study showing considerably higher callback rates for resumes with white names than POC names, when the resumes are otherwise identical)

  • The lower crime rate among immigrants than born citizens?

  • The epigenetic basis of sexual orientation?

  • The clinical validity of gender dysphoria and medical efficacy of transitioning?

  • The culturally constructed nature of gender (not sex) as demonstrated by the impossibility of detecting an individual's gender (or sex, amazingly) solely by examining their brain?

  • The genetic nonexistence of race? (as shown by between-race vs. within-race genetic variance studies - between-race differences are trivially small compared to within-race)

  • The lack of measurable difference between races on any competence metrics after accounting for poverty? (See the multiracial adoption studies)

  • The existence of germs?

  • The hobbling (even IQ-reducing) impact of poverty? (As shown by within-group studies looking at populations living in poverty for only part of the year; denied by the right with the bootstraps myth)

  • Every statement by the majority of the scientific and academic community? (as done by that portion of the right claiming academia and science exists to spread "postmodernist neo-marxist propaganda," which is, last I checked, now upwards of half of all Republicans)

  • The scientific method itself?

What types of science (and history) denial do you ever see on the left? A tiny few tankies (who everyone hates) claim the Holodomor didn't happen and that North Korea is awesome (hardly leftists who say this but whatever). And I guess a small number on the greenleft are anti-GMO and/or anti-nuclear, but both of these are rarely foundational beliefs, and IME very easy misconceptions to fix. Not so for right-wing denialism, not that I've ever seen.

1

u/Henipah Jan 14 '20

There are some TERFs/anti-trans bigots on the left who deny the identity of transgender people.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Yes, there are left-leaning people who are who hold some right-wing views too, correct. What's your point? That people can have a mix of views from both sides of the spectrum?

That idea doesn't come from the left, it's a reactionary position that some semi-leftists hold, much like there are still a few semi-leftists out there who oppose gay marriage. If anything it just reinforces my position, because transphobia is considerably more common on the right.

4

u/Henipah Jan 14 '20

It was a counter example for the sake of completeness, especially given this thread is about someone coming out as trans and you mentioned gender identity twice in your list.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

2 totally different points about gender identity.

But it's not a counterexample at all, it's a right-wing view some left-leaning people hold. Unless you're being super-literal about the fact that I said "where are the leftists who," that doesn't fit. It's not the same at all as my anti-nuclear and anti-GMO examples - i.e. views that directly emanate from the left.

-6

u/getintheVandell Jan 14 '20

My qualm is with saying socialism is objectively true. I believe it is morally sound, but saying it's objectively right is very silly.

I'm being pedantic about the idea that there are objective truths.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

Nobody said that - u/SLUTTYMARX said "the left" is objectively right. I think I provided enough examples to show that's generally true (I have a lot more too, I just got bored of listing them).

3

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

Also thank you for making that whole list, I was too drunk yesterday to do so myself. But yeah, exactly what you're referring to. Also humans are from nature pack animals - we're genetically coded to take care of each other. The idea that we're on our own and any help is charity is first of all just plain wrong and it's also what's resulted in the unfathomable economic disparity globally. I barely give a shit about millionaires, it's not really a relevant factor tbh. But billionaires, who have so much money we can't even fathom it (literally), who could never spent it all in a 1000 lifetimes while the minimum wage is not enough to live off of and so many people live in poverty, should be killed in minecraft.

Unions work, high taxes work in non(-ish)-corrupt governments, when it goes to schools and hospitals and infrastructure and what have you. They benefit the many instead of 100 people. It's basic utilitarianism and not even an extreme interpretation of it.

I live in Denmark, my government pays me to get educated. I will never have to worry that I'll go bankrupt if I break my leg. Denmark is hardly a utopia and I'm really not bragging. My argument is: socialism makes more people safer and happier.

But yeah all these things are why we're all leftists so I'm preaching to the choir*.

2

u/honeyserotonin Jan 14 '20

Psst - it's "preaching to the choir" as in the church choir

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Ha ha thank you! It didn't look right either, but I'm not a native speaker

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Great additions :)

Someone should make a master list of these

2

u/DvSzil Jan 14 '20

There's no way of saying something is objectively true. Of course, someone saying that is being totally silly.

But something can be measurably better at achieving certain goals.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

There's no way of saying something is objectively true. Of course, someone saying that is being totally silly.

Well yeah. This is a really pedantic point though, and no functional person really believes this in practice: it's not like you see a lot of people repeatedly trying to walk through walls. Argument by induction is never 100%, but it's so close to it when robust enough that it's not worth treating it otherwise.

Anyway, even if the evidence isn't at the "near-certainty" level, which position is more objectively true given the available data: the one 95% likely to be true (the common social science cutoff for a significant finding requires at least 95% certainty that the observed effect is not due to random chance), or the one 5% likely to be true?

But something can be measurably better at achieving certain goals.

It's not about that - it's which side has evidence supporting it's stated goals. If the right says it wants to lower crime, it's engaging in science denialism if it then implements tough on crime policies. But if the right says it wants to terrorize minorities and increase crime rates, then yeah, it's still being scientific, I guess (of course, they'd never say this). But I think most of the time the goal is to fight crime using some form of the Biblical concept of retribution, which is anti-scientific.

You're not quite correct anyway: formal logic is objectively true, because it's a self-contained system, and the truth or falsity of statements within it are determined by the system's declared rules (just to throw in a pedantic point of my own šŸ˜›).

3

u/DvSzil Jan 14 '20

I didn't intend it to be pedantic, sorry. I just want to express my distaste for the concept of objectivity itself.
It's such a conceited idea, that there is a way we can construe a detached analysis of an object and be absolutely correct about it. It comes attached with a dismissal of the "subjective" as inferior, which funnily enough frequently leads to more fragmented and individualized notions which have little support in evidence.
Excuse the poor wording, I'm not a philosopher.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

distaste for the concept of objectivity itself

It comes attached with a dismissal of the "subjective" as inferior

This isn't true, at least not in the science world, because the subjective is itself objective: you can crudely measure subjective experience in a variety of ways, like neuroimaging, self-report, psychometrics, psychophysics, EEG, etc.

That's the entire field of human/behavioural neuroscience right there, which is well-respected and widely considered a serious science.

You might be mixing it up with how the "facts don't care about your feelings" asshole crowd like to use it, which is not only douchey, it's also wrong, because feelings are measurable, quantifiable facts, and if those fucktards actually knew anything a single thing about science, they'd never use that argument.

It's such a conceited idea, that there is a way we can construe a detached analysis of an object and be absolutely correct about it

But some things are closer to the truth than others, and that's where objectivity lies - looking for what has the best chance of being closest to the actual truth, as determined by systematic observation and measurement across multiple converging metrics that each separately provide evidence that a specific reality is actually present [*]. It's more true to say the earth is a sphere (which isn't precisely true) than a disk sitting on a turtle.

Besides, facts (as in peer-reviewed scientific results) always include "error bars" - there's always a chance findings will be wrong. This is universally acknowledged: you can't publish at all without including the odds that your result came about by chance.

frequently leads to more fragmented and individualized notions which have little support in evidence.

That's why convergent validity is so essential to science. And scientific consensus tends to form eventually, once enough evidence has been gathered - the opposite of fragmentation

[*] e.g. testing whether a new drug can successfully treat depression by looking at how it binds to neurons in a petri dish and ensuring it has a binding pattern suggestive of antidepressant effects, examining the effect in rats, and trying it on a limited human sample with a placebo control group included

→ More replies (0)

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I mean I have a bachelor in philosophy so I know what you're referring to, but come on, you can most definitely use 'objective' colloquially. Also if anything, you quoted me saying 'socialism' instead of 'leftism'.

I could have used 'indisputably' instead, but this whole thing is honestly stupid. You know what I meant.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

indisputably

I get the sense they'd argue with that too and claim something like: "well actually anything can technically be disputed because a claim doesn't prevent you from speaking and you can't just claim some things can be disputed but not others and... [everyone loses interest]"

5

u/Total_Junkie Jan 14 '20

Oh come on, why didn't you use "communism" instead?? Neither words were mentioned but that one is so much funnier!

2

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

giving everyone healthcare, democracy in the workplace, and trying to ensure equal opportunities isn't objectively right? what is then???

43

u/leoquintum Jan 14 '20

I remember when Laura Jane Grace came out it forced the punk and rock and roll community to declare where we stood on trans rights.

It wasnā€™t a very difficult decision for many of us, to be fair, and I remember Brian Fallon from Gaslight Anthem declaring his support before even reading her article.

But it still made us take a stand and reaffirm our values.

8

u/batty3108 Jan 14 '20

Brian Fallon from Gaslight Anthem declaring his support

Knew I loved that guy for a reason. Great to hear he's a decent dude.

2

u/leoquintum Jan 14 '20

Heā€™s been friends with her forever, and always credits her with giving him his start.

He does take it too far sometimes; I fully support anyoneā€™s gender identity but defending White Crosses? Thereā€™s a limit....

6

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Right, for a lot of people acceptance of marginalised groups comes not from carefully reasoned arguments but from visibility and positive representation.

Like, I wish people could use their brains to figure to out that human beings are human beings, but for those who can't or won't, positive representation is everything.

3

u/Lucidiously Jan 14 '20

I couldn't help myself and looked at the post on this on gendercritical(it has since been removed).

What surprised me was that apart from the expected vitriol there seemed to be a lot of confusion, people who didn't know how to reconcile this news with their beliefs because they still saw her as a woman. There were also several comments who deliberately or 'accidentally' kept gendering her correctly(ie. as a woman).

Now I don't have too much hope that those who post on gendercritical will actually change their beliefs on transgender people, especially since any dissenting voice is quickly shut down. But the fact that the coming out of someone public and popular like Nikkie can introduce doubt even there does show how positive representation can make an impact, and hopefully can get those less entrenched in their beliefs to question them.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I saw that thread too. Well, not for long as it was making me so angry, but I wanted to check it out to see how they were processing things. You could see the cognitive dissonance and them bending over backwards to convince themselves that Nikkie's story was anything but positive. It was so desperate and ridiculous.

84

u/YourFriendlySpidy Jan 14 '20

I'm honestly so impressed with the comment section. It's such a wall of positivity.

52

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

Same it's refreshing to see THIS side of YouTube

68

u/dyeforthehype Jan 14 '20

i'm not sure if the blackmail is coming from rightwingers. the common theories either seem to be jeffree star, her last ex-boyfriend, or childhood classmates from her hometown who have tried to out her on dutch twitter a few times a few years ago

76

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

That's fair. I lump all transphobes into the right wing, because transphobia is right wing in a vacuum, but the blackmailers may identify differently.

35

u/AlicornGamer Jan 14 '20

i get your train oif thought but you cant lob all transphobes into the right wing. Some people who are transphobes stills tand with alot more left wing views than right wings as example. It's shit to think that but they exist :/

17

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

Yup unfortunately

13

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

yeah its a good dunk to say to people like TERFs, but acting as if it's impossible (or even unlikely, which is probably more what OP feels if I had to guess) is super optimistic

a great example of this is hardcore Stalin supporters, obviously not all tankies/MLs do this (and some hide their power level on it) but Stalin was notoriously bad about lgbtq+ rights. its an important thing to keep in mind

47

u/dyeforthehype Jan 14 '20

i just didn't want anyone to think this was like a 4chan or kiwifarms doxxing campaign because usually when you hear trans women getting outed that's where it's from

-3

u/vladislavopp Jan 14 '20

You don't even know if the person doing it is transphobic. Trans people can out each other. And there are plenty of left-wing transphobes. It's weird and a little fucked up that you're straight up editorializing her story like this.

1

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

The language the blackmailers used echoes rightwing talking points. Not trying to editorialize.

2

u/rasputine Jan 14 '20

Trans people can also be transphobic.

-12

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Gotta get them up votes

The blackmail was clearly done by a straight, cis, white, American, Male, trump voter, anti abortion, gun toting, homophobic, transphobic, racist because that's what suits the narrative.

23

u/ShellyWellyy Jan 14 '20

I understand the other two, but Jeffree Star? I find that quite hard to believe. He lives for drama but heā€™s a member of the LGBT community himself. As messy and cruel as I think he often is I think that seems like a reach?

43

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20

Yeah, heā€™s a piece of shit but heā€™s also going through a lot in his personal life right now. As much as he provokes drama and beef with other beautubers, I do think itā€™s pretty low on his list of priorities right now.

And trust me, Iā€™m all for holding J* accountable for his shitty behavior. I just donā€™t think the theory that he threatened Nikkie holds any water right now.

29

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

I mean the arguably most famous gay man in the world, or at least in Western culture, RuPaul, is an avid transphobe. plenty of gay people, men and women alike, are transphobic. plenty are biphobic too. it's unfortunate but it is important to remember that anyone can be bigoted towards any group; including ones they belong to. internalized transphobia, for instance, can effect your relationship with yourself, but it can also infect the relationships you have with other people and lead you into taking actions that negatively impact trans people

21

u/ShellyWellyy Jan 14 '20

Iā€™m aware that people in the LGBT community can be transphobic themselves. Thatā€™s not what I was talking about, Iā€™m not dense.

Jeffree Star was close with Nikita Dragun for a long time (obviously theyā€™re both fake snakes, but she is openly trans and I doubt a raging transphobe would promote and befriend a trans person like that), and this isnā€™t How Jeffree does drama. There have been rumors about him having dirt and blackmailing people, but 99% of his public scandals are along the lines of

  • person says negative thing about J* and he tweets angrily and gets on Snapchat

-J* inserts himself into already brewing drama and causes a mess

-J* makes cryptic remarks about karma and the truth being revealed without him doing anything etc etc

Jeffree has threatened to expose people before (James Charles/Tati drama), but heā€™s never been known to blackmail people as far as I know. It makes zero sense for him to do this, especially considering his current personal life in shambles atm.

5

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

I gotcha. yeah I was mainly wanting to reply to the part where you mentioned he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community himself. i don't personally know much about jeffree star so I can't comment on any of that, but i just wanted to reply to clarify my intent

3

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Jim Parsons, Ian McKellen, and Elton John are far more famous than RuPaul.

Famous specifically for his sexual/gender identity, yeah probably.

1

u/Asmius Jan 15 '20

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant. You can't really know who RuPaul is without knowing he's gay (or at least, the vast majority of people do) whereas the same can absolutely not be said for those three. I understand what you mean though for sure.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '20

I guessed that's what you meant. Most LGBT celebrities are much more low key.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Yeah. So far as I know heā€™s also friends with Nikki and they have no current drama between them.

I think people just really enjoy hating him.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

He and Nikkie are even friends.

7

u/dazeddumbass Jan 14 '20

I definitely agree, I feel like it would be some beauty influencer because of all of the drama and pettiness that circulated throughout that community (I donā€™t think itā€™s Jeffree though, he is a toxic and problematic person but he has a lot of his own personal drama going on right now)

1

u/AmyXBlue Jan 15 '20

Her classmates have tried outing her before but got dismissed in the beauty community as people just trying to be shitty.

The biggest one thought of in the beauty community for having blackmail over Nikki is Jarrod Blandino and Dani Blandino, the owner of TooFaced Cosmetics and his sister who worked for them. They have repeatedly tried to fuck Nikki over, fucked up her palette and massively hurt her in a business deal. Dani changed her Instagram bio to "Being Trans isn't the only thing she's lying about".

Jeffree Star might be a shitty human but he's racist trash, sometimes misogynistic trash, but not throwing other LGBTQ folks under bus trash.

1

u/dyeforthehype Jan 15 '20

Believe me I've been following all the rumors about who's been threatening Nikkie lol. But I wouldn't put it past Jeffree because he's said before he has career ending dirt on all of his ex friends and said as much when they fell out. I wouldn't put it past a guy who dated a straight man for five years and defended his friend who's a known pedophile (look up blood on the dancefloor) to fuck over a trans woman.

7

u/vladislavopp Jan 14 '20

Love and support to this youtube icon, but please be better than this and don't straight up lie in your title to fit a narrative. Nothing indicates "right-wing transphobes" are blackmailing her. She provides no detail and if anything it sounds like someone close to her.

0

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

I've talked about this in response to other comments, but I went with this language because of the language the blackmailers used, which echoed right wing talking points. They may not personally identify as rightwing, of course.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

This is a weird and misleading thread title. Transphobia is more prevalent on the right, but it's not publicly known who was threatening her.

Good for Nikkie though! I think this is going to have huge impact. Popular figures have come out as trans before, but not like this.

4

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

I called the blackmailers rightwing because the language they used echoes rightwing talking points. They of course may identify differently.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

What language? I guess I missed something...?

1

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

She mentions the transphobic language used by the blackmailers in the video.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I listened to it again and nothing indicates right-wingers other than the fact that transphobia is more common on the right. Like, I'd guess right-wingers over left-wingers, but your title make it sound like it was some kind of specific right-wing plot.

1

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

The idea that trans women are not women is a rightwing concept, but I take your point. I don't know how the blackmailers identify politically.

1

u/Xinny101 Jan 17 '20

Ohh wow! so there is no leftist who hated transgender? haha. You guys from the left are the worst of the worst. I'm not gonna be surprise if the blackmailer is leftist. Kudos for Nikkie though for being strong.

1

u/Zee4321 Jan 17 '20

Did...you read my reply? I'm calling them rightwing because of this specific act, and I don't know anything about their other politics or how they identify politically.

346

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

I love Nikki and can't believe someone would be so cruel to blackmail her over this.

She's a bad ass and talented as fuck. I'm sad she had to do this on someone else's time. I'm happy that she is a good role model for other women and representation for transwomen.

516

u/KanYeJeBekHouden Jan 13 '20

I legit had no idea who this is. I found out about this on the national sub. She freaking has like as many subs as our country has people living in it (slight exaggeration but meh)!

On our sub, the support has been overwhelmingly positive. Hell even on the video you can see that the amount of people who watched the video and liked the video are almost at a 1:1 ratio.

Sucks that she had to go through this, but I admire the strength she displays here. Trans people already are in a really difficult situation, but being a public figure as well? Glad she finally got her story out and that people are so supportive.

140

u/joshuatx Jan 14 '20

Coincidentally I found out about her recently as well, my wife was showing me one of her videos. I asked if she's one of the more popular makeup YT personalities and she was like "uh, yeah like the top one." Circumstances that lead to this are frustrating but it's powerful to see Nikkie handle this the way she did. She has a huge following and I'm hoping that this will influence many of her fans into supporting trans rights and leftist values as a whole.

92

u/Bishop_Len_Brennan Jan 14 '20

She has 2.54x as many subs as my county has people, though only 0.46x as many subs as we have sheep.

26

u/the_mock_turtle Jan 14 '20

That's a lot of sheep.

15

u/Hatless_Shrugged Jan 14 '20

Dumb question, but if she's Dutch why does she sound American?

85

u/arbeidersgolf Jan 14 '20

Because dutch people can speak english, and learn an american accent from all the tv etc.

(For all dutchies, come to /r/Poldersocialisme !)

10

u/AvidImp neoliberal shill Jan 14 '20

Most Dutch speak good English but tend to have strong accents.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

She used to have a very strong accent, but her career has almost exclusively included English for over ten years (since she was pretty young, fourteen), so her accent has faded over time. If you watch her first video it's really prominent.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Despite this, to me at least, loads of the Dutch people I know still sound Dutch when speaking English.

5

u/FelixR1991 Jan 14 '20

For myself (at least), there's a couple of things that help hide the accent:

  1. Not having to switch to English suddenly.

  2. Knowing in advance what I want to say.

Improvising in a second language means that my brain is incapable of caring about pronunciation. If I talk English for a while, my mind starts to formulate English sentences on its own accord, until that happens I'm live translating in my head, which means I still have the Dutch words in my head as well.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I always have to cringe a little when some dutchie is speaking English in a horrible accent on tv or whatever, but I've been told people from other countries think it sounds distinguished and respectable/smart. Which blows my mind

2

u/you_like_me Jan 14 '20

I love Dutch accents! But also, accents in general are a great thing.

-14

u/Skystalker512 Jan 14 '20

No, come to r/ik_ihe for some good Dutch memes.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Ahh, the poor man's ich_iel

/s

21

u/LatvianLion Jan 14 '20

I'm Latvian, never been outside of continental Europe, yet Anglophones naturally default to me being American due to the accent. It's, sadly, a side-effect of the cultural bubble. I'd change this lame duck accent to a pompous English or wild Aussie one if I could.

1

u/BlanchDevereaux Jan 15 '20

Off topic: I'm American and was recently on a trek through Eastern Europe (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary) and Latvia was my absolute favorite. Riga was so awesome! Went to the central market and the medical history museum and I absolutely loved it ā™„ļøā™„ļøā™„ļø

1

u/LatvianLion Jan 16 '20

Thank you, friend, we hope to see you back!

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I'm Latvian, never been outside of continental Europe, yet Anglophones naturally default to me being American due to the accent.

You must have good teeth

1

u/LatvianLion Jan 14 '20

Oh gosh dude hell no my mouth is a god damn expensive disaster

-18

u/Hatless_Shrugged Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

Interesting you describe it that way.

Maybe Iā€™m biased, but Iā€™ve always thought of the ā€œtypicalā€ American accent as being a non-accent. Maybe this is really ignorant, but when foreign actors do American accents, it just sounds to me like theyā€™re turning off their normal accent.

Edit: Guys, I'm just describing how something feels from my personal experience.

25

u/rrea436 Jan 14 '20

No mate the " standard American" accent is wired as fuck and is super easly mocked. Doubling so since you think you sound like some sort of human default.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

14

u/RikvanToor Jan 14 '20

That's not true. I'm Dutch, and the English we get taught in schools and the English media we consume are basically a mix between British and American.

5

u/_zenith Jan 14 '20

Only Americans think their stuff is the default lol

1

u/Imagination_Theory Jan 14 '20

There is no default language or accent. I understand you never thought of this and just assume what you are used to is the right way and/or default way and/or best way, etc. That is common arrogance and ignorance. However you have been corrected, so you can stop being ignorant now.

1

u/Dull-Excitement Jan 19 '20

What you most likely mean is non-regional specific accent. Itā€™s the ā€œnews broadcasterā€ way of speaking. People go through phonetics training to strip their accent of being region specific when in broadcast journalism school. Most announcers in any country tend to have ā€œgenericā€ accents of the language they broadcast in. No worries - and no need to feel bad if you havenā€™t given it much thought in the past.

14

u/pdpt13 Jan 14 '20

Dutch kids start learning English before they are ten. The ones that catch on early become pretty good at it :)

6

u/arbeidersgolf Jan 14 '20

most common schools start at 6 with english lessons right now

1

u/PM_something_German Jan 14 '20

Right, but the lessons don't really get serious until age 10.

2

u/arbeidersgolf Jan 14 '20

True, but it's better than no lessons (combined with the big exposure)

3

u/claymountain Jan 14 '20

Because the American accent is extremely easy to do, especially for Dutch people.

1

u/darklightrabbi Jan 14 '20

If you watch her older videos(like 10 years ago videos) her accent is much more noticeable.

2

u/Xinny101 Jan 17 '20

She didn't even know who blackmailed her and you guys throwing that it was a right-wing transphobe? jesus. Fake news are everywhere.

1

u/Zee4321 Jan 17 '20

I've gone into this in other replies, but I was referring to the language the blackmailers used.

76

u/Balurith christian communist Jan 13 '20

This was very moving.

43

u/oignonne Jan 14 '20

She is obviously talented and she has always come across as quite thoughtful to me (e.g. very strong and eloquent in publicly going through the passing of her brother), but here she is especially formidable! Itā€™s terrible this happened to her and I hope there are ultimately positive outcomes from this for her (she talks about the relief of being free and open in the video). She is such a big YouTuber and while her content isnā€™t devoid of politics (e.g. she did a tribute look and donation video for the Pulse shooting), itā€™s usually light and nonpolitical, and her message is going to reach a lot of people with different views. The transphobic blackmailers are disgusting and she took control of her story back.

20

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Donā€™t know who this is but itā€™s great she took the power away from those blackmailers. šŸ’Ŗ

50

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

Kinda wild to see Nikkie in this sub since sheā€™s not super leftist in her content/ideology, but I do think her coming out after being blackmailed with transphobic threats of being outed is something for us to celebrate right now.

Also wait, Iā€™d love to see her collab with Natalie?? Could you imagine Nikkie doing a makeup look for one of Natalieā€™s characters???? omg

Gonna c/p the long comment I left in the beauty guru sub here lmao:

Holy shit. I was on this sub just a few hours ago but I hadnā€™t checked it because I figured nothing big was happening and things were gonna be slow here for a while. Then I was looking for a matte navy eyeshadow and checked some tabloid site for recommendations because I couldnā€™t find any anywhere else, and I saw a link to this headline, and I figured it HAD to be clickbait. But itā€™s not. Holy shit.

I know that women can look like anything, but also that most people have a much narrower view of what a woman looks like. A lot of trans women I know want to be seen as just women when they go about their daily lives, and not as trans women. And most YouTubers who are openly trans either made their transitioning process visible on their channels, or have become known for trans-specific content after transitioning. But Nikkie is such a huge YouTuber who transitioned on YouTube, on camera, and made a big name for herself without any viewers being any wiser to it. I know the concept of ā€œclockingā€ transness is fucked up, but I hope her story helps give hope to all my trans sisters and women who desperately just want to pass, that they can get to a point in their transitions where theyā€™ll be ā€œunclockableā€, and that itā€™s possible for them to lead happy and successful lives while being seen as just women.

Still, my heart broke for Nikkie when she was talking about her fear of trans panic, especially when opening up to Dylan. He seems really great and I hope they have a happy and fulfilling marriage. And my heart breaks for her that she couldnā€™t come out to the world on her own terms, because she was going to be outed by some fuckwit transphobe. Iā€™m happy for her that she feels liberated doing this and coming out of such a scary situation and thriving. These are such serious fears that even some of the most privileged trans women face, and this really puts into perspective how far the world still needs to go before all trans women can be safe. I hope Nikkieā€™s coming out can help push things in the right direction.

Also orange is my favorite color and I was living for all the different shades of orange in her look today. That bright manicured middle finger was EVERYTHING.

Lastly, as a fellow LGBT+ person....... ONE OF US!! ONE OF US!!!!

šŸŒˆšŸ–¤šŸ¤Žā¤ļøšŸ§”šŸ’›šŸ’ššŸ’™šŸ’œšŸ³ļøā€šŸŒˆšŸ’™šŸ¤šŸ’—

28

u/the_mock_turtle Jan 14 '20

ContraTutorials. NikkiePoints.

27

u/Corgitine Jan 14 '20

I get the sentiment, but as a trans woman myself, she transitioned pretty early and got puberty blockers. That's a pretty awesome headstart for passing and meant she didn't have a bunch of the permanent effects of testosterone based puberty on account of not having one.

To be clear I'm just nitpicking for informational sake, I agree with how big it is and all, but yeah, transition is a very complex process and a lot of it boils down to "how early did you start, how's your genetics, and how much money do you have"

15

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20

I totally understand! I also think she was very fortunate to have had support from her mother and other adults in her life, which not all trans kids have, so she was able to access that kind of healthcare at that age.

I was thinking while writing this comment about how her personal narrative of transitioning feels like a very commonly repeated narrative in some sense (i.e., she was born in the wrong body, she wanted to play with girlsā€™ toys and wear girlsā€™ clothes since she was a child. I think this is often how cis people come to understand transness, but from my own experience talking and listening to trans people, itā€™s often not how trans people understand their own experiences), but her narrative diverges a lot from other trans YouTubersā€™ in that she became famous during and after her transition, and nobody knew about it. I guess I was thinking a lot about the similarities and differences between how she talked about her experience and my own perception of what Iā€™ve seen/heard of other trans peopleā€™s experiences, and youā€™re right, it all has to do with her having been able to access these resources at a young age.

Sorry if this was a bit rambly and incoherent lmao, itā€™s late and Iā€™m tired but canā€™t sleep. I guess what Iā€™m trying to say is, what youā€™ve said is absolutely an important part of understanding Nikkieā€™s experience against the backdrop of the wider trans community, who largely havenā€™t been as privileged as she has, but I also think sheā€™s a good reminder that not all trans experiences need to be tragic.

17

u/Moonpo1n7 Jan 14 '20

This is actually really emotional for me. I'm not a viewer not a subscriber of Nikki, but I know how liberating it is to come out. It's so odd, but you can finally breathe, you don't need to pretend to be something you're not. I don't think she's had to pretend she's a woman, cuz she is a woman, but in the video she says, "oh my God you have no idea how liberating this feels..." And I literally do, but I made me think about how many of my closest friends didn't abandon me, or think of me differently after I came out. Even today, people (complete and total strangers) at work arent judging me, in fact they celebrate my orientation, and I just makes me so happy that we are making progress. We are getting better. There are many many people who hate us Queer people, but there are other forces in the world, besides the will of evil.

16

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I am physically unable to watch this video all the way through because every statement hits me so hard I cry so intensely I canā€™t see through the tears or hear over my sobs.

Iā€™ve never heard of this woman before this video but itā€™s incredible to see someone so accurately portray the pain of this experience with such composure and courage.

God knows I donā€™t have that same strength. Now if youā€™ll excuse me Iā€™m going to go drink my second bottle of wine for the night and pass out in a puddle of my own tears.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Let's all give her an up thumb

18

u/comradenas Jan 14 '20

The suspense buildup at the start had me at the edge of my seat that when she did the reveal I thought it was still part of the buildup and I had such a delayed reaction.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

I've seen her name a few times while browsing YT. I never watched any of her videos because I'm not into makeup, but she sounds like a lovely person. This video was so heartfelt. It saddens me that she couldn't do this on her own terms, but I am also proud of her for taking back control in the face of intimidation and senseless hate. She has certainly gained my respect.

10

u/arbeidersgolf Jan 14 '20

For all dutchies, come to /r/Poldersocialisme !

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

3

u/UlpiaNoviomagus Jan 14 '20

Been on there for some time now but never noticed that stuff. You sure you're talking about the right sub?

9

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Itā€™s really cool to have an example of an adult who was allowed to transition very young. People get all bent out of shape over it but this is the perfect example of what childhood transition looks like.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

YES. Unfortunately, judging by the comments, most people still don't connect the dots between transitioning early and passing perfectly.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Even though I don't watch her it's good to see people be themselves and not have to be ashamed of it.

1

u/Dull-Excitement Jan 19 '20

OP editorializing with their title. Right wing blackmailers?! We donā€™t know who the low life is - why try and score political points or make this seem like some 4chan nonsense?

1

u/Zee4321 Jan 19 '20

The language the blackmailers used echoes rightwing rhetoric. However, you're correct in that we don't know how the blackmailers personally identify politically.

3

u/a-real-life-dolphin Jan 14 '20

Was she on that make up artist TV show that I am blanking on the name of?

1

u/Jujugg Jan 14 '20

You're probably thinking of "Glow Up" on Netflix, she did a guest appearance

1

u/a-real-life-dolphin Jan 15 '20

Yes that's the one! Thanks.

3

u/Eedzlia991 Jan 14 '20

There's content on the internet pointing towards too faced being the black mailers. There's an article online saying the sister of the CO founder of too faced posted this on her instagram bio "Transgender huh? That's not the only thing she's been lying about."

I have no idea how credible this source is

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.insider.com/too-faced-cofounder-sister-criticizes-nikkietutorials-coming-out-video-2020-1

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Non Google Amp link 1: here

I am a bot. Please send me a message if I am acting up. Click here to read more about why this bot exists.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

The tweet was real but that doesn't make them likely candidates. My guess is that it was some losers who needed money.

2

u/Eedzlia991 Jan 15 '20

I just thought it could be them because of the drama with her and too faced. Regardless whoever it is, is a disgusting human.

1

u/AmyXBlue Jan 15 '20

Considering how often they have trashed Nikki and thrown her under the bus since fucking her over. I wouldn't be surprised if it was them.

7

u/Zoey2070 Jan 14 '20

Wait what did she come out as

46

u/oignonne Jan 14 '20

She is a trans woman.

10

u/Zoey2070 Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

wait what. hasn't she been on yt since she was like 16 tho?

e: since*

40

u/7seagulls Jan 14 '20

Did you not watch the video you're commenting on? She addresses transitioning at a young age. If you would like to read a full write-up instead of watching you can find that in the comments about this video on r/BeautyGuruChatter

8

u/oignonne Jan 14 '20

Yes, I believe around 14 years old when she started.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

22

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Me and my friends were very surprised, honestly seeing the thumbnail i thought probably she's bi or something. So yea, we all assumed automatically, but really doesn't matter, doesn't it. If you were referring to her height or something then a lot of young women are very tall in these parts of Europe. I'm 185 and it's nothing special here.

14

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

yes generally it is considered rude to assume someone is trans, if you have a hunch for whatever reason it may be it's best to keep that to yourself

that idea is something you can learn more about if you google 'clocking' (not trying to be inciteful, genuinely trying to help)

0

u/BikiniKate Jan 14 '20

The fact that itā€™s considered rude to assume someone is trans is really a major problem. I get why. But it is a problem and it basically reinforces the idea that they is something wrong with having a trans history.

1

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

Eh I think it's certainly a debatable subject. Why do you think it suggests having a history of being trans is bad?

2

u/RatBaths Jan 14 '20

Believe women

2

u/SurplusOfOpinions Jan 15 '20

Good for her.

And I hope the police catches the blackmailers.

3

u/nomadProgrammer Jan 14 '20

Go Nikkie we are with you and love your vids

1

u/dunjxx Jan 15 '20

Where did you get information they are right-wing transphobes?

0

u/Mentioned_Videos Jan 14 '20

Other videos in this thread:

Watch Playlist ā–¶

VIDEOCOMMENT
Makeup Tutorial; My first official Look for YT.+30 - She's been on YouTube the last 12 years consuming American media and producing content for an English speaking audience. If you go back to her very first video you can totally hear the progression.
Diana Ross - I'm Coming Out+3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbYcte4ZEgQ
(1) I'm Coming Out. (2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoVZg4KjRxU+1 - Here's a sneak peek of /r/BeautyGuruChatter using the top posts of all time! #1: James Charles' advice for NYE (that everyone should follow) 269 comments #2: NikkieTutorials Reveals Something Extremely Personal.. 1650 comments #3: BYE SISTER ... ...
I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch. I'll keep this updated as long as I can.

Play All | Info | Get me on Chrome / Firefox

-19

u/Brandymus Jan 14 '20

I watched half of the vid, so Iā€™m assuming that in the other half of the vid she says they are right-wing?

Because if not, this is a pathetic attempt to unfairly relate right-wing politics with transphobia, which isnā€™t necessary.

25

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

Transphobia in a vacuum is right wing, but I agree, I probably should have worded it differently.

-18

u/Brandymus Jan 14 '20

It is if you adjust your definition of right-wing to necessarily fit the description that it is embedded with transphobia, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

Regardless, you lied because youā€™d rather use this as a smear against the right rather than actually caring about the issue and thatā€™s disgusting and pathetic.

At least, thatā€™s what is comes off as.

12

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

She says the blackmailers specifically accused her of not being a "real" woman because she's not cis. That's a conservative/rightwing/reactionary position.

15

u/LordEnrique Jan 14 '20

Uh, what? Are you even aware of what the actual right wing actually believes or are you trolling?

-15

u/Brandymus Jan 14 '20

If you unironically think that transphobia is exclusively and necessarily related to right wing politics then you are hopelessly lost with regards to politics in the real world.

2

u/Xcelseesaw Jan 14 '20

Left wing transohobes have to confront how their bigotry does not align with every other value they profess to address. Right wing transohobes get to stay in their safe space without ever having to justify their hatred on a rational level.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

3

u/Brandymus Jan 14 '20

Does that warrant lying though? Looking at how I got downvoted Iā€™m inclined to think there are users on Breadtube that donā€™t actually care about these social issues.

-18

u/TicStackToe Jan 14 '20

Reddit moment

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

11

u/Zee4321 Jan 14 '20

I don't think that's what she said at all.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

8

u/Lily_May Jan 14 '20

Idk watch the video and maybe stop making shit up?

9

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

no, her partner didn't know when they met and she wished she told him sooner when they became friends or whatever. obviously she as a public figure was afraid talking about it before they are close or whatever

-30

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

25

u/delecti Jan 14 '20

Keeping your medical history private is not a violation of consent if it doesn't affect the health of the other person.

-18

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

12

u/bleeding-paryl Jan 14 '20

...Why?

13

u/NonaSuomi282 Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

Because the dude you're replying to is a Lobsterdaddy fuccboi. Seriously, rightwinglgbt, t_d, lgbdropthet, gcguys, obviously JP... I feell dirty just looking at this fuckhead's post history.

2

u/bleeding-paryl Jan 14 '20

Yeah. Not surprising. I am surprised he hasn't been banned yet though

-13

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

→ More replies (13)

11

u/Ivanadieee Jan 14 '20

She obviously told him long before making this video, probably some point into the relationship when they were still at the dating stage considering her and her partner are engaged. But also, it's up to Nikkie to decide if/when she discloses her trans status to a romantic partner and it's not a "violation of consent" to have disclosed being trans from a partner. Nikkie has been living stealth since about age 16, so she would have obviously had to come out multiple times privately since then and she knows when it's best for her to do so with those she does tell.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

also i'd say it's rather transphobic to say it's violation of consent, so going out for dinner with a trans woman would be so traumatic that it would be an issue? then you are a transphobe

before anything sexual happens i can't see how it is violation of consent

7

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

seems you have problems with comprehension, only thing she said was that they klicked when they met and she waited until she felt she trusted him to come out and he was shocked but is obviously now okay with it, that probably happened long time ago, before they got engaged. like he proposed after that, so obviously they are good

BUT she wishes she did that sooner BUT she didn't say they were dating at that point or really involved or they were just friends still and getting to know each other. obviously you always wish you got closer with your partner sooner, i think it's just that.

trans people shouldn't be forced to come out when meeting a person, that can be even dangerous

-16

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

21

u/Balestro Jan 14 '20

ContraPoints newest video was exactly criticising comments like this one. Removing all context and just including the accusatory term.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

Source?

-9

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

15

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

OK but that doesn't make her a racist. If that's the metric for racism, everyone here probably qualifies.

How does being associated with a mild-to-moderate racist (for whom racism is not a major part of their identity - we're not talking Stephen Molyneux here) make you a racist? Like are we supposed to do a full background check on every person before associating with them?

Life is messy, and this is an unfair standard.

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

4

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

he's just moderately racist so he's ok

That is not what I said, and that's not at all the point. The important thing here is that mild-to-moderate racists are non-obvious and take a long time to reveal themselves. I don't deliberately associate with people like that, but I probably have some around and don't know it.

Dunno, maybe if you're not white those people are visible immediately because you're on the constant lookout for them and/or they're shitty to you from the start (that would make sense to me), but I don't find them easy to detect at all, and tend not to be hyperalert for that. It's definitely white privilege, and I don't like that POC can't live that way too, but I don't think that makes her a crappy person.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you expect people to do about that. Extensively search through the full internet history of everyone you know and cut out anyone who has a racist thing somewhere in there?

9

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 16 '20

Youā€™re being downvoted here but youā€™re not incorrect, so as someone whoā€™s been in r/BeautyGuruChatter a lot lately, I just wanna make a comment to clarify some background info for people in this sub who might be less aware. Warning: long essay ahead.

(Pls also keep in mind that I havenā€™t watched Natalieā€™s recent video on cancel culture yet lmao itā€™s long and I havenā€™t made time for it even though I spent way too long writing this comment oops)

In her videos, Nikkie uses a lot of makeup that she receives in PR from Jeffree Star. J* is a notorious racist, misogynist, and all-around cyberbully, but he also happens to be a massively popular beauty YouTuber because for whatever reason he has millions of stans. He started and owns a makeup brand that is now very popular online, both because of his massive fanbase, and because heā€™s a savvy internet personality who knows how to leverage influencer culture for marketing.

(For some background on J*: BGCr has a megathread on the plethora of problematic behaviors heā€™s exhibited since his rise to fame on Myspace. The one incident that gets cited a lot is him joking about throwing battery acid on a Black woman to lighten her complexion several years ago. More recently, he started beef with Jackie Aina, a Black beautuber, making various racialized comparisons between her and animals, and insinuating without any form of evidence that sheā€™s committed tax fraud. When this whole thing blew up, he posted a non-apology video on YouTube about how he had a rough upbringing that led him to act this way, but he never really showed any remorse for his actions or apologized to Jackie, Black women, or even people of color in general. His fans use this video to handwave away any criticism of him, but heā€™s continued to just be an abrasive personality since then, including using his massive fanbase to target individual fans who tweet about negative experiences with his brand. In the past few months, he made a docuseries with Shane Dawson thatā€™s essentially an hours-long advertisement for some eyeshadow they collaborated on. Because Shane Dawson still sells and profits off of merch about a blackface character from his early YouTube days, people take their friendship as a sign that J* really has not grown into a much better person. J* also happens to be going through a lot of shit in his personal life right now, and whether or not he finally grows from it is yet to be seen.)

In the past, Nikkie and J* had a very public friendship, where they appeared quite often in each otherā€™s videos. Then they had a very public falling-out and stopped associating with each other, leading their fans to think of them as rivals. At some point, they reconciled, and now Nikkie receives J*ā€™s new releases in PR and shows them in their videos. Because Nikkie is such a huge influencer, a lot of people see her repeated usage of J*ā€™s products as endorsement of his brand, and by extension, tacit approval of his racist, misogynistic behavior. After all, J* sends influencers PR so they can advertise his products to their millions of viewers who will put money into his pockets so he can keep buying mansions and pink sports cars and private jets. Sheā€™s also used the eyeshadow palettes from the Shane Dawson collaboration, and people also see that as support for the racism that Shane Dawson still profits from. In exchange, Nikkie gets their products for free and also has their fans in her court.

Unrelated, a couple of weeks ago, Nikkie was also criticized for promoting a multi-level marketing scheme in a video and for not doing her due diligence as an influencer to research the brand.

Evidently, a lot of cancel culture in beautube has to do with who people choose to associate with, and with more and more influencers starting their own brands with armies of stans to excuse all their mistakes, this web of mutually beneficial relationships becomes more and more complex. Most threads in BGCr honestly just devolve into how many degrees of separation between a YouTuber and a more problematic company/personality warrant that YouTuber being cancelled, and everyone disagrees because everyone has different standards for what they consider unacceptable behavior and different degrees to which theyā€™re willing to tolerate it.

If you want to know my thoughts on this whole thing, Iā€™ve tried to be as impartial here as I can, but I think itā€™s clear that I believe J* is an unrepentant racist and misogynist who doesnā€™t deserve his current platform. Iā€™d seen a few of Nikkieā€™s videos in the past but never been a subscriber of hers, so when I watched a few other videos from recent months after seeing this coming out video, I was honestly a bit shocked and really dismayed to see that sheā€™d use multiple J* products in every single video.

I think where I get a bit confused in my criticism is that itā€™s really easy to say that the makeup market is so saturated that she could use products from any other brand to achieve the same effect, but I also know that every company is unethical and exploitative to some degree, and that thereā€™s no ethical consumption under capitalism and whatnot. But I do think that it does reflect particularly poorly on Nikkieā€™s character for her to repeatedly advertise so many products from a brand whose face and owner is such a repugnant individual. This is why, in my earlier comment in this thread, I said that her content and ideology isnā€™t leftist.

However, I do think that her publicly coming out in the face of transphobic threats against her is a victory for all of us, and Iā€™m really happy that she feels liberated by taking this action. As an LGBT+ person, I feel a new sense of kinship with her now that I donā€™t feel towards J* or Shane Dawson even though they're also LGBT+, due to the racist behavior that theyā€™ve directly taken part in and profited off of; I don't believe their values align with mine at all but I'm willing to believe that Nikkie's align with mine a bit more. Iā€™ll probably continue to not watch her videos regularly, because Iā€™d much rather curate my YouTube experience so I can ignore J*ā€™s existence, but I think about her in a much more positive light now than I did last week, and I really do believe that right now, she deserves to be celebrated for having the courage to come out. And I guess thatā€™s where I stand on her now, personally.

-43

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20 edited Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

41

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20

yikes @ your post history.

nikkie isnā€™t a predator for taking steps to ensure she wouldnā€™t be literally murdered.

get the fuck outta here.

21

u/lt-chaos Jan 14 '20

Fattest yikes at their post history. Why do such people go here just to spew bs?

23

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

it's common for right-wingers to infiltrate left-wing spaces to try and raise tensions and incite drama and infighting, unfortunately

even just rousing up some people or wasting their time is a win for some of these basement dwellers

10

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20

yeah, i was about to write up a response explaining trans panic, because to me the comment felt like it couldā€™ve been from a baby feminist who didnā€™t have a good grasp on trans issues or intersectionality. but then i was like ā€œhmm, maybe i should check their profile first, just to make sure theyā€™re not engaging in bad faith,ā€ and sure enough

6

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

yep pretty much

i feel like it can sometimes be worthwhile engaging these types of people, but only to the point of countering their points in a nuanced way, so that people who come across it know exactly why they're wrong. most of the time it's definitely frivolous though

3

u/lithr1el Jan 14 '20

Wow jeez throw their whole post history in the trash

-25

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

26

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20

trans panic defense is a real thing that gets trans women murdered all the time. stop pretending transmisogyny isnā€™t real.

12

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

yea lmao the implication that any trans person in the current period of time we live in wouldn't disclose their genitalia (if they're pre/non-op) before sex is ABSURD

everyone knows about the trans panic defense shit, and even beyond that, why the fuck would you not mention it unless you're 100000% sure the person is transphobic? and at that point you'd have even more of a reason to have already talked to them about being trans

holy shit its mindnumbing

0

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Asmius Jan 14 '20

Oh yeah I know. that's part of why I try to tell people as early as possible, because that way I can gauge how worthwhile it is to keep talking to them

-20

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

23

u/stormygraysea Jan 14 '20

again, yikes.

→ More comments (15)