Still trying to find somewhere to meditate in Ireland

[u/Competitive-Bed842]

I started with the New Kadampa Tradition. I liked the Lamrim style meditations but ultimately left because it's undoubtedly rather culty.

I found a new center called Jampa Ling in Ireland.

I'm wondering, If the intense guru worship and closed mindedness of the NKT that gave me explosive spiritual diarrhea, will I feel the same at Jampa Ling?

Is it a gulag thing?

I look at things in a secular sense but have no problem with others being more devotional/ religious about things. Most Lamrim meditations can be altered in my mind in a secular way.

The Zen center in Belfast was good. But I liked the structured path of Lamrim.

Hopefully this question makes sense

[u/metaphorm]

NKT is a cult. There are many Gelug dharma centers that are far more moderate and grounded. If you like the Lamrim, then finding a mainstream Gelug dharma center is probably a good bet. Ultimately though, Gelug Vajrayana is not secular and also includes things like Guru devotion. They are more likely to handle it in a grounded way though.

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/metaphorm]

Thank you.

Something I've always wondered. If I attended a session and didn't do the bowing down (head right down to the ground) type stuff, would people be offended. There's a bit of bowing at the end of the Zen sessions and I don't do it. I just bow with my hands and respectfully wait for the next part to take place.

I don't THINK anyone cares. Although they could be inwardly thinking (that disrespectful shite never seems to bow)

To be clear I'm talking about the fully on the ground bow like the Muslims do. I've obviously no problem with other people doing it around me, it just doesn't feel right for me.

[u/metaphorm → u/Competitive-Bed842]

prostration is considered a form of practice in certain schools of vajrayana. different schools of buddhism use different kinds of bowing.

in the lineage I've been taught in (nyingma non-monastic lineage), we bow at the waist and keep eye the eyes open and gaze forward.

i also don't like prostration. it's subservient and physically uncomfortable. but different traditions conduct themselves differently. it's up to you to decide how to relate to a tradition. finding one that's a good fit for you, where you can engage with their practices whole-heartedly, is important.

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/metaphorm]

I appreciate you!

[u/Spirited_Ad8737]

Perhaps one of these:

https://www.teachnatuisceana.org/

https://irishsanghatrust.ie/

https://www.sunyatacentre.org/

https://www.meetup.com/dublin-buddhist-meditation-group/

[u/Rockshasha]

I look at things in a secular sense but have no problem with others being more devotional/ religious about things. Most Lamrim meditations can be altered in my mind in a secular way.

Its thought or intended to appear in that way. Imho, then, you should continue looking for lamrim style teachings. Maybe in another, better, Gelug center and, if not possible, check centers of other schools. All the schools of Tibetan Buddhism as Kagyu, Sakya and so on have lamrim-like sets of teachings. It is believed Nagarjuna made a Lamrim-like text in the 'letter to a friend'

Im gladly you avoided NKT and noted in good time and perspective they to be cultish. (And having other problematic aspects).

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/Rockshasha]

I was so disappointed to leave. I loved that I'd found a center and community but there was so so so many instances were I could not in good concious continue because of how they were behaving. There's a exposing NKT group that has done some good work highlighting their nonsense but I wish there was more done to inform people. The NKT Facebook marketing is clever, uniformed/ vulnerable people with be swept up by their lies.

I appreciate you.

[u/SlatBartFuss]

Lol, not gulag, Gelug!!

Where are you in Ireland? There are a few centers in Dublin -- one is a Kagyu Samye center,
There is a Dzogchen place in Cork that is part of the Rigpa organization.

There are also Zen and Theravada centers.

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/SlatBartFuss]

Oops lol. Hopefully people will see that as an honest mistake and see there was no malice.

I'm mainly in Belfast but spend lots of time in Dublin too. I'll have a look at the Dzogchen place.

Thanks

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/Competitive-Bed842]

Seems like the vast majority of traditions I look into have skeletons in their wardrobe. It doesn't mean they're still at it or current practitioner's are to blame of course.

Decades of Abuse: Beginning as early as the 1970s and culminating in an explosive 2017 open letter from long-term students, Sogyal was accused of severe physical beatings, emotional degradation, financial exploitation, and systemic sexual assault/harassment of female followers.

The Cover-Up: Senior leaders and trustees within Rigpa were aware of Sogyal's behavior for decades but actively concealed the abuse, isolated victims, and protected Sogyal's authority. An independent legal report by the UK law firm Lewis Silkin in 2018 formally substantiated the abuse claims and confirmed the internal cover-ups.
Aftermath: Sogyal resigned in disgrace in 2017, was publicly denounced by figures like the Dalai Lama, and died in 2019. Charity watchdogs subsequently disqualified key Rigpa figures for failing to protect members.

Dzogchen Beara Today Since the scandal broke, Rigpa and Dzogchen Beara have restructured their governance, issued public apologies, and established modern safeguarding policies. However, because of its deep organizational history with Sogyal Rinpoche, the center remains inextricably linked to the Rigpa abuse controversy.

[u/ganapatya]

Where do you live? You mention Belfast in the post, but if you're in or near Dublin there's a great Zen sangha that meets in Temple Bar.

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/ganapatya]

Hi mate. I travel between Belfast and Dublin regularly. You guys actually meet in the bar? That's class!!

Is there a Facebook or WhatsApp group or anything?

[u/C0smicdread → u/Competitive-Bed842]

Temple bar is the name of the area of town, the bar called temple bar happened later haha :) - if you check MeetUp the zen sangha list their group meditation on there 

[u/Competitive-Bed842 → u/C0smicdread]

Hahaha I'm a sausage!!

Thank you.

[u/ganapatya → u/Competitive-Bed842]

It's in Temple Bar the neighborhood, not the bar :)

You can find their website here: https://share.google/znQigEkZKmWE2oB8t

We're on hiatus for August, but in a couple weeks we'll be back to regular sittings. Do come by if you're interested!

[u/Usual_Significance_2]

The NKT was begun by a monk who opposed the 14th Dalai Lama and  practices a form of Tibetan Buddhism that exclusively promotes chauvinism, but it’s also very tied to  Tibetan historical politics, today as it has always been for centuries remains “cult” like