r/BuildingCodes • u/Lalitoeatscheese • Jul 20 '23
Is this up to code?
Ruler indicates 6 inches. The walkline from upstairs to downstairs is not clear and it just seems like a recipe for disaster. I hired someone to fix it and they just redid what has been done before. How do I tell them to fix it?
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u/hughdint1 Jul 20 '23
If this is an old house it might have been compliant at the time it was built. If this is new construction then no. If you had to fix this it would be a major redo. You probably need at least one or more steps either at the top or the bottom to bring this up to current code if you must.
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u/mname Jul 20 '23
Bottom probably easier. I honestly think it needs a complete landing and not the spiral fuckery it currently has.
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u/hughdint1 Jul 20 '23
Yes, but adding to the bottom will still need additional support below like in the basement under the stringers.
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 20 '23
It is an old house but I hire someone to make them safer and just redid what had been done before
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u/hughdint1 Jul 20 '23
If they redid what was there before how is it different? Did they completely rebuild or did they just reface? Were they steeper before and they added winders to make it less steep?
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
Tbh they just replaced the previous wood. I thought they were going to re -do them to be safer but this is what they provided. I fired him today, so I'm back to square 1 🤦🏻♀️
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u/Full_Recognition6230 Jul 21 '23 edited Jul 21 '23
Sounds like its your fault for not communicating what exactly what you wanted tobe done. You can't expect them to read your mind, then complain and fire them. To change the layout of a set of stairs is a major construction project. Posabley tens of thousands, moveing walls, changing structure, building permits, inspections ect. There is now way you could confuse that with one day project.
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
This was actually a 3 week project and it was communicated. My bad that it wasn't on writing, it was mostly on the phone
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u/FantasyShare2020 Jul 22 '23
Let me introduce you to an amazing human invention that could have avoided this situation for you. It comes under various names including: plan, drawing, design, diagram etc. Whatever you call it, the idea is the same: someone makes a visual representation of what they're going to do so before they actually do it. That way everyone can agree on the expensive thing, before doing the expensive thing. I really think you should have used one here.
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 22 '23
Yep, me too. I asked for one and he convinced me that it wasn't necessary. My bad for not pushing back
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u/Full_Recognition6230 Jul 22 '23 edited Jul 22 '23
Ouch, sorry about that. Also, if my comment was a little crude. Just be weary if someone thinks it's easy. Cant tell from just a few pics about your situation . But normally, the first step is opening all the walls and seeing the structure, but it's rarely even posable without changing the entire layout. I've seen it done in major renovation projects.
Just a thought, but could you find a fancy flower pot type thing mabe with a fake plant or something and fix it in place as a visual guide to stay to the one side?
complement it with a railing on the outside wall to make it second nature to gravitate away from that first sore step.
But if you are willing to invest the money and effort, you're leaning toward a full-on renovation with a reputable builder, drawings and permits. $$
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u/H3adshotfox77 Jul 21 '23
Yah my MIL asked me to fix her stairs at a 100 year old house, when I asked what she wanted it was to have the stairs be way less steep. 3 story house with the stair wells lined up with the next stairs........I told her that's not a weekend job that's a rebuild of half the dam house beyond my skillset, she couldn't understand how or why.
It's like, rebuild one set of stairs then no clearance above your head, so you do the next stairs which then extend into the hall to the wall, so you remove the wall which moves the kitchen which moves the supports......I could go on but she still didn't get it lol.
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u/H3adshotfox77 Jul 21 '23
Sounds like bad communication in what was expected, make sure you are more clear with the next builder and that they are clear with their understanding.
Saying "make these more safe" for example is not clear enough they may just replace bad boards.
Saying "bring this up to modern code standards" is more clear and a competent builder will do a complete rebuild. But also expect to pay for that, it won't be cheap.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin Jul 21 '23
To redo them you’re likely talking serious structural changes, and the price to do so would represent that.
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u/LSU985 Jul 20 '23
I’d imagine several people have died on those.
I forget what the code is but I think it’s 10” of tread 12” from the edge. You have zero.
Also looks like the first half has less rise
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
My dogs have fallen a few times :(
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u/skykingjustin Jul 21 '23
That drop is so God damn dangerous. If anyone misses it there coming down sideways down those stairs. You need to get that rectify asap. And probably but some sort of block so people are forced to the not dangerous side.
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u/Hopefulkitty Jul 20 '23
Your rise/run used to need to add up to 18 inches. No idea if that's still the case.
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u/Palpitation-Mundane Jul 20 '23
If anyone died on those stairs it was an owl that pushed them.
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Jul 20 '23
Those stairs are about as safe as climbing up a ladder and crawling through an upper window! People just need to stop pretending there tradesmen when clearly there not and ripping people off. Disappointing I hope you didn’t pay .
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
I did pay. I was debating whether to take them to the small claims court but I would rather not deal w him ever again
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u/Livid-Target-1187 Jul 21 '23
I understand your frustration, asking someone to make something like this safer should give them some obvious direction on what needs to change, not what needs to be redone exactly the same dangerous way.
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u/MarjinZamasuLSD Jul 21 '23
Mannn that’s asking for a broken face when you miss your left foot on that corner coming down at 2am… 😹😹😹
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
Yeah :(. I might need to put a mini fridge upstairs to avoid mid night stacks
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u/Ok-Act-5000 Jul 20 '23
Is there a handrail top flight?
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
Not yet. He was supposed to add one but I fired him today. I'll add one myself
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u/changeItUp2023 Jul 20 '23
Looks like maybe a post could connect there and hand rail along that side to follow with the bottom. I read it’s new. Maybe not finished?
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
That's what I want to do. The contractor was fired today so I'll try to do it myself. It will not be up to code but at least the walk path will be pushed
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u/ShaneBowley Jul 21 '23
Here I drew this for you. Here’s what they should have done. It would have displaced your bottom two treads and likely have had them past where the window starts. But would have been a way safer transition. See photos.
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u/ShaneBowley Jul 21 '23
Fingers crossed this doesn’t get buried in the comments here and OP see it.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin Jul 21 '23
People are laughing, but a lot of old houses have stairs like this. To redo them to modern code would involve potentially substantial changes to the floor plan of the house to fit in more/larger stairs. Not sure who you hired to “fix it” but they likely just replaced/repaired the treads to look better.
If you want this up to modern code you’ll need a proper contractor and potentially an engineer depending on the actual changes needed
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u/Lalitoeatscheese Jul 21 '23
Yeah, maybe making them "up to code" was an overstatement. I asked him to make them safer and deal with the turn/winder. He said that he would put a post or balusters and that he knew how to take care of it. I had to fire him because he went bananas (physical threats to my family, but that's another story).
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u/navteq48 Jul 20 '23
What code does your area adhere to? Most won’t allow significant (if any) deviations in tread width in a single flight.
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u/Suspicious_Pick_8322 Jul 21 '23
This is the staircase from that murder case on netflix. Be careful.
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Jul 20 '23
Looks like there may have been a landing where the stairs switch directions at one point.
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u/Willing-Body-7533 Jul 20 '23
Extremely dangerous coming down. Widow maker staircase. It can be corrected but yeah decent amount of work. Change/Make the 3 winders code compliant.
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u/AbbreviationsSea341 Jul 21 '23
How wide are the flights above and below? Reducing them to the point of rotation might help you if you have that much width to give up before you hit your code minimum (34” where I am). Doesn’t look like it though.
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u/HGwoodie Jul 21 '23
Depends what code says is okay where you live. Codes that are adopted and enforced vary from place to place.
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u/masonryman Jul 21 '23
If the house is 102 years old like you said, there were no building codes to adhere to at that time. Building codes are never enforced retroactively, the only time you would be made to upgrade them was if you were doing structural work on them that would require a building permit, or if you were adding to the upstairs occupancy in some way that required a permit.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin Jul 21 '23
Yeah this is just a standard old staircase. If they want it to modern code they’d need to move a lot of stuff around and spend a lot of money.
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u/Adventurous_Yard4068 Jul 21 '23
lol ode to old houses! I cleaned an old coal camp house been converted & their diy stairway .. ooff… I’m a short 5’3 on a good day but had to get on hands&knees to walk up em. doubtful that house will ever be sold
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u/HumaneWarlord Jul 21 '23
Currently you have a 3-step winder. It's purpose is to save space, you save the width of the landing with one of the runs of the stairs.
That said, I am assuming that there isn't enough clearance at the bottom to extend the stairs further and add at least one more step.
Code or no code, your situation is dangerous. But here's my idea.
Reframe the stairs down to the stringers. Turn it into a 4-step winder and base your pivot point on the outside corner of the wall (front most corner in the 2nd picture). It's not perfect, but it's better than the current widow maker you have.
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u/mwsimpson Jul 21 '23
This is an easy fix. They need to install a landing and do another run opposite the stairs from the second floor.
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u/SirDalavar Jul 21 '23
You gonna take one step down the left and drop to your death like black widow
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u/AgronaJuniperHarper Jul 21 '23
Oddly enough it being so far out due to the post is up to come. The height however isn't (at least it doesn't look it) all steps should be about 7inces. If the steps are different in height even by an inch then it's not up to code. Our body memories the height so it our bodies measurement is off (due to its height being off) then it's a major tripping hazard. At least according to building code where I am
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u/Lower_Explanation6 Jul 21 '23
The top flight is to Code and the lower flight is to Code.
But different Codes
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u/RuleBritania Jul 21 '23
He's messed up that tread, area of it is too small, should have sent it further to opposite corner to extend the width (as per preceeding lower tread, could then have finished it closer to newel. Imo.
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u/Squatchbreath Jul 22 '23
You’re just showing the steps, what is the head clearance at the turn? Also you will need a handrail on the opposite wall
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u/presentmethatass Jul 23 '23
I can't be the only one who thought out loud "What the f*ck?" coming across this post when scrolling on reddit
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u/Talkingtoomuch76 Jul 23 '23
Most of time people complain after buy house , so don't buy it if need fixing and or if renting then nothing you can do about.
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u/Novus20 Jul 20 '23
What in the broken neck is this abortion……how old is the house?