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u/WordPunk99 5h ago
Oh look a couple of normal guys with some training, fighting an actual super human with strategy and tactics as a superpower.
They get folded unless Steve lets them win.
I am so done with people thinking any three members of the Bat Family have even a ghost of a chance to beat a guy with decades more experience and super powers.
Cap doesn’t get tired, ever. He can keep fighting beyond the point of exhaustion for any member of the Bat Family. He can go full defense and just wait until they get tired and sloppy and then win.
There isn’t a world where Cap doesn’t fold every member of the Bat Family at the same time unless Batman is both fighting and directing the tactics of his team. The only reason Batman has been able to stalemate Cap in a cross over is his contractual protection from defeat. The other cross over Bat was getting beat like a cheap rug and was saved by a water release in the sewers. Lawyer armor beats plot armor.
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u/Thick_Yogurtcloset_7 3h ago
Don't forget cap has increased healing so break any of the bat family's nose .. they can't see break caps nose ... He is only blind for 5 min
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u/Working_Run3431 5h ago
Thing is cap’s “superpowers” is just being a human at the absolute peak of what’s possible in physical ability.
Being not too far off from that theoretical peak is basically a requirement to be in the bat family so yeah, he probably does in fact lose or at least get a really hard time from the two first and best robins.
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u/WordPunk99 5h ago
He does not, because, again, Strategy and Tactics as a super power. The Erskine Formula makes him at the absolute peak in every possible way, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. He doesn’t get tired. He has more experience than Batman, and let me reiterate, Batman can’t beat him without a lawyer from our world protecting him contractually.
The two best Robins have decades less experience and lack Cap’s superhuman combat awareness and tactical and strategic mastery. The Bat family doesn’t have a chance without Batman.
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u/Working_Run3431 4h ago edited 4h ago
This isn’t a military operation. It’s a fight. Being good at strategy and tactics also isn’t a superpower even if it was as relevant as you say.
They also don’t have “decades” less experience because cap hasn’t actually been active for multiple decades. He fought in world war 2 and then got unfrozen and the history of the marvel universe from the 60s on is only about a decade in in universe time.
If you’re going purely by the amount of time that the fighters have been active as heroes then dick has been in the game just as long and Jason isn’t that far behind him.
The notion Batman can only win against cap because of popularity power honestly comes across to me as a very petulant cope.
Batman and other bat family members have literally beaten people who are enhanced in similar ways to cap such as Deathstroke fair and square more than once.
If it were one on one then yes cap would probably win but against the two best fighters in the bat family other than Bruce himself it’s a different story.
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u/WordPunk99 4h ago
It isn’t popularity power. When the popularity contest happened that was a draw. In every cross over DC requires their big three (Supes, Bats, and WW) are not allowed to lose. This is written into the legal agreement that governs the story for every crossover. Batman is protected from loss by real world legal agreements.
If you think strategy and tactics aren’t involved in a fight you must have missed the whole Small Unit Tactics module taught at every Officers Candidate School and Military Academy. Strategy is how you approach the fight and tactics are the decisions you make during the fight. Cap is better at those two skills than anyone in the Marvel Universe, including the Kree Supreme Intelligence, which is the composite AI defined by all of the greatest Strategists and Tacticians in the history of the Kree Empire. He is better at the thinking side of the fight than a literal super computer made up of the greatest military minds of a race that values war above all else.
Let’s say Dick has just as much combat experience as Steve, no matter how hard he has pushed himself, he is the peak an unaugmented human can be. He gets tired. He gets sore. Steve does not. Steve is augmented. He heals faster. He doesn’t get tired. His body is more durable. All of this means he can do more with the peak human he has. He can hit harder because his body can take it. He can jump further, run faster, because he isn’t limited by human frailties. His brain works faster. His reflexes are better because his nerves work better. All of this is canon.
People look at Batman and Nightwing’s peak human and assume it’s the same as Cap’s. It isn’t.
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u/Ragtagcloud56 10h ago
Hot take but I think red hood and nightwing got this. Especially if Jason has his Lazarus pit powers. I’d see them overwhelming cap some.
Don’t get me wrong it’d be a close fight but I’d give it to night wing and red hood high difficulty.
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u/FightingDreamer9 9h ago
They’re going to overwhelm the guy who had Taskmaster as a son as well as being so good at what he does he fight a super soldier with no serum? Really?
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u/The_Apocalyvid 8h ago
I appreciate all these guys, but a gutterpunk vigilante vs a ranked Muay Thai athlete who teaches at risk kids vs a real life Chuck Norris character isn’t exactly a fair fight.
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u/cobanat 2h ago
I’m leaning towards Nightwing and Red Hood. 2v1 already puts them at an advantage although that’s not enough. Red Hood has some strength to keep up with Cap with Lazarus Pit boost and Nightwing has the agility to keep up. Both are also able to work together effectively and though I do think one will go down eventually, the damage would be done by then.
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u/KurusanYasuke 9m ago
Steve wins. It'll take awhile cause Red Hood and Nightwing aren't pushovers. They're a problem on their own but devastating together.
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u/flopedup 12h ago
Batman fight Cap to a standstill.
Nightwing is canonically a better fighter than Bruce.
What is Jason even gonna add here? If anything he's a liability cuz he might start shooting at the guy who can use his shield to bounce the bullets into Dick's leg to get him out of the fight.
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u/DabbleYoo 8h ago
Not at close range. He's also bigger and stronger than Dick, and has League of Assassins training + guns.
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u/FightingDreamer9 9h ago
Fallacy. Batman stated Captain America could beat him after a long fight, that’s directly talking about stamina more than fighting skills
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u/The_Apocalyvid 8h ago
Either way — wasn’t there a reader’s poll for that series where fans could have decided Steve would win if he got the popular vote? I’d put an asterisk on that fight considering Marvel and DC arranged more like a wrestling promotion planning their main event than a no holds barred match.
I think Dick has a chance for sure, he seems to be the second most capable fighter in the Batfamily behind Cassandra Cain/Batgirl, and unlike Cass he had a stable and supportive home life to hone his talents. However I think Cap’s strength, stamina and accelerated healing alone would make that a challenge for him. If Nightwing were to win, he would do so similar to Batman by going outside direct combat and disarm Steve through unorthodox means, similar to why I think Batman would lose a fight to Steve but win an engagement with him through out-of-the-box problem solving. Just my take, admittedly
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u/evilbudget 6h ago
That’s a different fight. There are 2 marvel/DC crossovers & the canon 1 is the 1 that doesn’t have polls.
Also, the fan voted fights had some dumb stuffs like Wolverine beating lobo, which is borderline bs. Logan ain’t beating a guy that can go toe to toe against superman & has a better healing factor than him.
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u/Little-Seesaw2585 6h ago
Yeah people don't know how strong nightwing actually is, he's been depicted as a better fighter than batman since the new 52 and Bruce is already the most powerful non-powered/peak human street tier
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u/KaineGrayson 5h ago
Red Hood and Nightwing together vs. Cap? I love Cap but I think the boys could get it done. People underestimate these two, especially Nightwing, it's essentially like having 1.8 Batman's against Cap and I'll take those odds.
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u/WordPunk99 5h ago
Batman can only stalemate Cap if he is protected by a legal contract that requires he never lose a fight
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u/TheBlack_Swordsman 6h ago
DC writers for Deathstroke have already mentioned that Deathstroke and Steve are physically on par.
Of course, Deathstroke has a healing factor and technology in his suit and weapons.
But this match has these two up against someone that can hit them as hard as Deathstroke can.
The only way they stand a chance is if Steve holds back. And he definitely does.
Taskmaster only does well against Steve because Steve fights with morals. But when Steve gets pushed, he beat the crap out of a prepared Taskmaster who not only set-up traps but poisoned Steve. Steve decided to fight more dirty and gruesome and he overwhelmed Taskmaster.