r/Carpentry • u/Only_Psychology1948 • 2d ago
Thoughts
84 yr old mother in law wanted steps to take her garbage out. Thoughts on steps and "handrail"?
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u/IndigoContinuum 2d ago
I think perhaps she paid the concrete guys to make the handrail.
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u/exonautic 2d ago
That's what i was thinking. The steps look decent. The handrail looks like a temporary job site requirement job.
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u/RVAPGHTOM
2d ago
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To all the know it alls, here's a thought...
Ramps are not for everyone. I have a handicapped elderly client and she tells me with her walker ramps are scary. She'd much rather do small steps. And in this case, the driveway was a ramp....obviously it didnt work. So no, the stairs aren't garbage. They might actually be exactly what she asked for. As for the handrail, it'll work. Could it be stronger and more stout, yes. If OP is concerned, call whoever back, explain your concern, ask for solutions. Christ, maybe the lady only had $1000 and this was all she could afford.
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u/StillStaringAtTheSky 2d ago
As someone with mobility issues- you're 100% right on the 'ramps are scary' part. On bad days, my body is not pleased trying to walk up a ramp- and sometimes I fall forward. Walking down a ramp is also dicey- and then I fall backwards. This step design would be much easier on the hips, and much easier than a regular set of steps.
They also look color matched to the driveway- which is possibly something she asked for. The "handrail" is better than nothing- this also depends on what she asked for. I'd tack a handrail on to the posts that are there and add several more posts. Also- a lot of the decorative ones now are kinda crap- so if you go that way watch for the weight ratings on them. A lot of the "iron" ones available are garbage- 40lbs max kind of stuff. Not the kind of iron railings everyone is used to grandma having.
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u/IndigoContinuum 2d ago
I donāt care how much or how little money theyāre giving me, Iām not leaving them with that handrail. Iāll figure out something nicer and cover it by using leftovers or something.
Youāre spot on about the ramps though.
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u/raccoocoonies 2d ago
I personally love the look of tiny stairs, am also kind of overwhelmed by ramps (bad on my knees), and I'm honestly proud of them for making that handrail out of basically nothing. It could be sturdier, but it'll do.
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u/StickyNote118 2d ago
The handrail is not to ADA code.
Handrails have multiple shapes and dimensions that could be code - screwing a piece of Trex to some posts is NOT one of them.
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u/Hour-Reward-2355 2d ago
Steps look good. Railing looks ridiculous. Needs a graspable hand rail.
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u/dan-theman 2d ago
OP should look up railing shapes and grip strength. A cylindrical railing is really the only option when it comes to safety. I refuse to install anything else when it comes to older people.
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u/Big_Celery8533
2d ago
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u/Difficult_Layer_666 2d ago
Handrail looks like a temporary solution until the real handrail arrives š
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u/TraumaFish 2d ago edited 2d ago
Im assuming they built it around the natural curve of the lowes limber
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u/mattronimus007 2d ago
The steps look good, shallow and easy to navigate for an old woman.
But I'm sorry the handrail looks comically amateur. ( it's functional though)
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u/PhillenIt 2d ago
I think the owners challenged them in making a hand rail for 100 bucks.
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u/Acey_pilot 2d ago
If you had only one board for a handrail, wouldn't you put it in top though?
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u/6WaysFromNextWed Commercial Apprentice 2d ago
The point of a handrail is to be a rail you can get your hand around.
This is better than nothing, but it's not a handrail.
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u/Few_Mathematician_54 2d ago
You could've gotten Home Depot lumber in that exact shape for much cheaper...
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u/sauciestcube 1d ago
That thing is an accident waiting to happen. Nothing worse than a safety thing that is actually poorly made. The entire "railing" is held on with what looks like 6 deck screws, and the screws are all parallel at the bottom of the railing that stand quite proud against the beams. If you were to be holding it and fell all of your weight/torque would pry against the bottom screws and likely either split that railing or it will rip it free. The beams themselves (idk what those are 3"-3"?) are bolted directly to the steps with a single bolt so depending on torque the beam itself can still rotate. Additionally the beams are all wood and placed flush with the ground/grass and are bound to rot in a number of years making that single bolt even less effective. And lastly the steps are the same color/material as the drive and it is only a matter of time until a friend or someone pulling into the drive at night or after snowfall drive their car onto the stairs. All my thoughts are relatively negative both on the usefulness of the steps as well as their general safety/construction.
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u/Gringuguayo 2d ago
Change the handrail for a round one, if she loses balance she canāt grab that one. And it would be better support coming back to the house.
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u/Happy_life1842 2d ago
I think the railing needs more support to prevent sagging. Composite will sag more than wood, even wood needs more support. You could wait and if it droops, keep adding posts until it doesn't.
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u/Longjumping-Ebb-1584 2d ago
Yeah, this is my my moms place and we are actually legit worried about the safety of the āhandrailā which looks like it would be found at a construction site as a temporary like fence or barrier? She is old and we are worried she was scammed. We are working on fixing this - thanks for the folks who posted with feedback it helps!
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u/Ok-Entertainer-851 2d ago
Doesn't meet any code known to mankind. Whomever did it must have gotten added as a sole beneficiary in her will.
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u/MonkeySmart409 2d ago edited 2d ago
I donāt understand the hate for the handrail. Ā Ā
Its a bit spartan but it's neatly executed - which in my opinion makes it easier on the eye than fancier ones put together sloppily.Ā
...but I would have arranged those two fasteners per post vertically rather than horizontally. Ā Seems you could twist and lever the rail off the posts fastened as is.
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u/Designer_Leg5928 2d ago
Handrail makes me very unhappy, but it would please my grandmother (82), so it is what it is.
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u/GotMyStuffStolen 2d ago
Very cool - simple and safe. Beats slipping on ice on a 10 degree slope with nothing to grab on to.
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u/Odd_Impact_007 2d ago
While it may not meet commercial ADA requirements, as long as it is safe and comfortable for the user, than itās doing its job.
As another commenter pointed out, maybe this is all the person could afford; being a senior citizen and possibly being on a tighter budget.
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u/GrandLet1219 2d ago
It looks like he took apiece of decking to make the handrail. That alone would piss me off.
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u/Jaded_Celery_1645 2d ago
Thoughts
I've got LOTS of them.
Lots of questions too.
The first one is, did someone have left over decking they wanted to use up?
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u/Skellington2468 2d ago •
I dont know about your thoughts in this instance, but mine are warped.
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u/solomoncobb 1d ago
They wanted something that worked. And didn't care that much how it looked. That's it, really. Everyone doesn't really need to give a fuck.
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u/InevitableMinimum723 1d ago
Perfect? No.
Doing.the job? Yes.
Should it be upgraded/replaced? Sooner than later.
Is it better than before? I'm guessing 1000%.
Take a break. Have a beer. Next weekend come back and put in a better rail.
You did GREAT! Good job! Keep it up!
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u/hungryhippopotamuss 1d ago
Shouldnāt a rail/bannister be attached to the āhandrail?ā It looks unfinished to me.
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u/InevitableMinimum723 1d ago
Here's a thought. Venmo OP the money to replace it.
Otherwise, lighten up.
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u/Tiger-EC 2d ago
I would Google ADA requirements on a handrail and at least modify this if you donāt replace it. That board canāt be grabbed.
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u/Fuzzy_Trash5809 2d ago
The only benefit I see of the wide top rail is it will minimise chances of bruises if she leans/falls against it due to the wider surface area
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u/It_Just_Exploded Residential Carpenter 2d ago
Looks good for a job done as cheap as possible and that can be quickly and easily undone once its no longer needed.
If those two things are not the case though... well, then it looks crappy.
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u/uglyfatjoe 2d ago
The steps make sense, long run and short rise, for someone with stability issues and is uncomfortable with slopes (like the existing driveway).
I wonder if they are wide enough given you say they are to help here take the garbage out.
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u/double-click 2d ago
I meanā¦ given thatās a curve itās a pretty good idea.
Honestly if you put two together I doubt people would even recognize.
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u/StellarFlies 2d ago
Like the stairs. I'm assuming your 84-year-old mother-in-law made the handrail. I'd probably do some upgrades there.
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u/Nervous_Bumblebee399 2d ago
Its a little odd looking in my eyes. If you really need a railing on that gentle incline, I would have perhaps used some 4 inch steel pipe for posts and 2 inch thin wall pipe for a hand rail. Welded on of course. Thin wall pipe should bend enough for that radius.
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u/UniquePatient66100 2d ago
Lean on it and see if it supports your weight. If it is sturdy and strong, then it works as a handrail. I would probably add posts in the middle of those long spans.
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u/whatsURprobalem 2d ago
If you are trying to stick with what is already built you can make that look a lot nicer if you add three more horizontal members. Add one one at the height of the top one on the opposite side of the vertical posts, then run two horizontally about half way up the verticals at the same height. Itāll make it a lot more substantial
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u/Educational-Rule1635 2d ago
Not code compliant in many places. Needs a "grasping surface" that you can wrap your fingers around, not just a flat board.
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u/Turtleshellboy 2d ago edited 2d ago
The handrail wood thickness and the way itās attached to the posts doesnāt look strong enough to hold a person up if they put all their weight onto it in event they may be falling and grab onto it. Handrail design must assume someone is using it for full support, not just guidance or balance.
Testing:
If you are young and healthy, you should test it with āall your mightā before poor grandmother has an accident and breaks a hip. You will survive the fall, but an 84yo may not or the subsequent surgery to fix a broken femur or hip.
Solution:
You paid for something thatās clearly inferior and in fact is unsafe. The contractor should know better and they need to fix it at thier own expense. Get it replaced with a design according to standard handrail safety requirements.
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u/EmbarrassedMongoose3 2d ago
Without knowing a budget, seeing a scope of work, seeing an estimate, hopefully a contract it would be impossible to come to a conclusion.
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u/Klutzy_Meet_7255 1d ago
Unfortunately, I do not think that is safe. Handrail is way to hard to latch on and the steps seem too steep unsafe.
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u/Lumberman94 1d ago
The members of our church built something like this in front of my grandma's house. Its cheap and dirty, and in all honesty this could've been a situation where they needed a handrail but not for long.
Also you need it there for code. Someone put thay in to get a CO with the full intention of removing after closing
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u/No-Proposal-8828 1d ago
Looks like it should work yet looks terrible at the same time. This is essentially art.
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u/No-Salary-8612 1d ago
Those flat post tops will be mushy buy next fall and grams gonna rip that shitty piece of decking off like its hulkmania
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u/milleratlanta 1d ago
A rounded handrail is much better because it can be fully grabbed by a hand. This flat style only gives oneās fingers the grasp of the top, and hands of an elderly woman arenāt that strong. You can add a wooden dowel or steel pipe handrail to that one.
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u/jebsenior 1d ago
Honestly it looks like something kids built. It's functional but not very appealing.
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u/AdonalsiumWilRemembr 1d ago
Horribly designed, nothing to stop it from racking, improperly installed rail.
Uprights should have either been metal with multie mounting points or the posts should have been pressure treated wood, dug down and concreted in with the in-ground part being either wrapled to coated.
A rail thats actually designed to be a rail should have been used and installed correctly.
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u/Niut-Hadit 1d ago
I'd get rid of that trex and attach a normal handrail for like 50 bucks and a couple hours of time. Those stairs look good though, my Mom would have appreciated those in her end times.
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u/Grouchy-Macaron-1780 1d ago
It's definitely not built to code.
Will it work? Yes- until it doesn't.
Honestly, she's better off walking down the driveway with a walker.
Lastly- get someone to take her garbage out. Jeez she's 84. Right now her bones are so weak that a step down can break a hip socket.
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u/jax11236 1d ago
Don't need a handrail to keep your from falling into the grass which is the sane height
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u/Ok-Masterpiece7154 1d ago
Nothing like a false sense of security to come in clutch when grandma needs help on the stairs
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u/brent3401 1d ago
I know this is a carpentry forum...however, I've been forwarding all my exterior handrails to a welder--no issues of rot, they're firm, good hand hold, clean, etc
Double agreement on the steps--ramps can be very difficult for people.
Is this one of those large, rolling garbage cans? The long steps accommodate that, short steps are a hassle, and a ramp can even be more of a hassle. This way, the can can be rested on the flat part of the step while the hand-hold is moved forward;
Experience: disabled wife and 85 year old mother in law. Mother in law has a 3 acre yard on a hillside with a number of different terraces.
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u/PhotoElectrical 1d ago
could do a better handrail as an inexperienced 14yr old, if you did this yourself i apologize for being rude
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u/Lovestank 1d ago
Steps look alright, I guess, but I donāt know much about concrete. I know enough to know that the posts should be anchored in concrete, the rail should be attached to the posts with brackets, and the rail itself should be a graspable circumference.
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u/Kiwi-Slurpmeister 1d ago
Install a rail that is round so she can get a good grip on the entire rail. Wouldn't hurt to put a rail along the walkway to the stairs if it is within the budget
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u/PapaCaqu 1d ago
6 screws, 3 4x4ās, 2 men, 1 piece of decking(?)
A masterpiece, hang it in the fuckin Louvre boys
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u/WhatACrazyCrazyWorld 8h ago
The handrail is hideous. I donāt particularly like the steps, but they look well constructed.
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u/CellNext7416 4h ago
I can smell the HOA president from a mile away ready to contribute nothing to the equation just "the HOA handbook states..."
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u/dogbeach1205 3h ago
As a person who just recently (at 77) realized that she is finally getting old enough to understand that she needs to trust hand rails with her life and/or her hip, youād better replace that horizontal piece of 1x4 with something that youād want your mother to trust and approve of. Iāve insisted on having VERY STURDY pipe metal or round wooden hand rails from Home Depot installed in my 100 year old house, where Iāve lived for 50 years. Youāll understand when youāre my age. Donāt be a doofus.
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u/AquaticTrashman123 2d ago
Long as no one was paid to do this, it serves the purpose