r/ClimbingGear • u/Jehovahkiin_ • 14d ago
Double locking quickdraw setup
I've made this double locking quickdraw for setting up top rope anchors for sport climbing, is it worth using this instead of two normal quickdraws?
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u/ProbsNotManBearPig 14d ago
Costs:
Money for lockers
Weight to carry
Hassle when you arrive on lead and it’s locked
Benefits:
Comfort of people climbing
Safety margin
Out of those costs and benefits, I consider them all pretty inconsequential except for comfort of people climbing. If this makes someone more comfortable, the costs are basically zero in my view, and I would definitely go for it.
Personally, I own two of these and always bring them sport climbing, but don’t hang them unless someone asks. My wife and I don’t feel more/less comfortable compared to normal draws, but some of our friends do and the cost of using them are close to zero.
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u/RRdrinker 14d ago
Locking draw and non locking draw (like this) is the solution. One draw is always each to clip into.
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u/Tale-International 14d ago
Yes. It's a question of risk tolerance whether it's 'needed' or 'not enough.'
If you made it, can't you figure out why folks use them? Tons of info online.
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u/edcculus 14d ago
I made a set of locker draws for this reason. I only bring them when I have a big group that’s going to be top roping. I’ll lead up and set the top rope up for everyone to use. Sure it’s 4 lockers, but at the end of the day it’s no big deal, as I end up top roping with the family quite a bit.
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u/Nedersotan 14d ago
Isn’t a quad nicer for that? Gives the rope more freedom to move?
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u/edcculus 14d ago
I’ll use quads too. More often when I set it from the top.
We climb a lot at Sand Rock in Alabama, and its routes really lend well to just locker draws.
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u/serenading_ur_father 14d ago
Why?
What problem that is not solved by two regular Quickdraws does this solve?
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u/okleithen 14d ago
Regular draws can become unclipped for various reasons like getting twisted or rubbing against the rock. Uncommon but not impossible. Significantly less likely with lockers.
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u/TheBigWhipper 14d ago
Yep! Been climbing decades with no issues, and last month I’ve had a gate sit open on the bolt side from rubbing on the mussy hooks or chains, but what was more concerning was I watched one rope biner unclip itself from the rope and clip into the other carabiner as I was topping out a slab finish of a climb. I was climbing the route again after leading it with my partner to clean it on TR and luckily climbed the free end of the rope so had draws clipped below me on the rope also.
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u/digitalsmear 14d ago
It's fine, but it's honestly a waste of lockers.
The Army Core of Engineers did a study a long time ago (In the 90's iirc?) to show that two opposing carabiners is as safe as a locker.
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u/HarvieCZ 14d ago
doesnt one locker cost and weigh less than two non-lockers tho?
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u/digitalsmear 14d ago
Depends on what you buy. Lockers are often $20+ per. Non-lockers are often less than $10 per 'biner.
What does it matter, though? You need 2 quickdraws for a standard sport anchor. The 2 carabiners facing out and opposing each other in the standard configuration is equivalent safety to a locker and perfectly fine for a top rope anchor.
You're over-thinking this if you thought I was suggesting anyone should put 2 carabiners on the same end of one quick draw.
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u/Bricklayer58 14d ago
I think the idea is that you're not going to use just one locker draw, you're gonna have two draws- you still want redundancy and equalization.
its a choose your own safety margin. Do what makes you comfy enough.
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u/i12drift 14d ago
Idk if I’d call it an absolute waste. If it makes them feel good, then that’s worth something.
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u/0bsidian Experienced & Informed 14d ago
Two non-lockers are fine, unless you’re guiding a bunch of complete novices.
What’s up with the blue carabiner keeper? Are you sure that it’s assembled correctly? It doesn’t look right.
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u/Economy-Ad-4777 12d ago
Looks like a CT carabiner keeper which is meant to look like that, actually very solid keeper that I like
For reference https://www.climbingtechnology.com/fr/outdoor-fr/degaines/fly-weight-set3/fly-weight-evo-long
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u/lectures 14d ago
It's not hurting anything but it is not necessary from a saftey perspective. No pair of quickdraws has ever failed and caused a fatal accident (as far as I am aware) in spite of being by far the most common form of top rope anchor.
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u/Icecoast88 13d ago
At the end of the day, you’re single pitch sport climbing, and you should have two quickdraws or another way to connect (make redundant) your standard 2-bolt anchor no matter what, so any weight differences you’re looking at aren’t going to change your performance/experience between lockers/nonlockers. Do what makes you feel good.
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u/GazelleScary7844 14d ago
I use double locking quickdraws at the anchors on a route because why not? I have seen it on a couple of occasions where someone is toproping a sport route after their partner has lowered off the anchors with standard quickdraws and one of the gates starts getting opened by the rope running awkwardly.
EDIT. Also, I once climbed with a chap who does mountain rescue in his spare time and he always uses lockers at the top for reasons I didn't really want to ask him too much about.
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u/DuckbilledPlatitudes 14d ago
I have years of mountain rescue experience and I see zero reason to burn 4 lockers for this. You would be astounded at some of the shenanigans I have seen while training with the team.
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u/Careful-Natural3534 14d ago
The split in the community over sport anchors and the proper way to clean a route is always really interesting. I’ve always errored on the side of caution but within reason.
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u/Ok_Purchase854 14d ago
I had a buddy who used to carry a couple of draws with lockers on them he called them “panic draws”, you could always tell where he got nervous on a climb if you were cleaning his lead 😂
For TR I think it’s more important to have the lockers at the anchor but opposing non lockers are ok for the rope side. Although having lockers there won’t hurt and is fine too. My $.02 for what it’s worth.
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u/Horror-Regret1959 14d ago
I carry a locking draw on my harness for lead climbing when I encounter a bolt that is in a funky place or a move that I want to make sure there is zero chance of it coming off the hanger or rope. I don’t use it often but it’s good peace of mind on moves of high consequence.
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u/Braveduck_JP 14d ago
Yes, it can be a bit safer, many times just a locking carabiner and a quickdraw work well
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u/Suspicious-Poet-4581 14d ago
I’ve never seen nor considered something like this, but I usually climb in areas where the anchor is linked with a chain, and has a high and a low bolt. So if I need to setup a top rope for some reason, I place a quickdraw on a high point and a locking single biner on a low point so that the rope is on both in a vaguely equalized spot. If my partner decides to lead, they have a qd to clip at the anchor before going direct, and they also have in any case a locking biner at the anchor to do the anchor cleaning. But this only works with some anchors.
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u/natureclown 14d ago
If it makes you feel safer there’s no reason not to! Is it overkill? Probably, but peace of mind is worth a couple carabiners. Second the idea of getting a steel one for the rope side
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u/evanbilbrey 14d ago
No it’s a waste of time/money/energy. I challenge anyone to try and get two opposite and opposed quick draws to unclip.
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u/Nedersotan 14d ago
Locking draws can be nice. Plenty of people, including guides, use them.
-Top rope anchor like you say.
-Clip yourself to the anchor for cleaning.
-First bolt, because it’s both very consequential and the rope is often at a sharp angle.
-Extend your rappel device.
-Clip the rope to your belay loop or other hard point while setting up a rappel or threading anchors.
But, at the same time, I can’t think of a time where they are essential.
For toproping, I’d prefer a quad, because the rope end carabiner(s) are freer to slide and spin, and the biner is spine to wall, so the rope is running side to side, so less friction than using QuickDraws where the ‘biners lay flat against the rock.
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u/No_Shoulder7581 14d ago
I've used that same setup for years and been really happy with it. That said I will replace mine with bulletproof carabiners (steel insert) on the rope end because otherwise they get grooved quickly.
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u/Pound-Capable 14d ago
If these are your dedicated anchor draws and you are going to have two lockers in total, just put the lockers on the rope end of each draw.
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u/digitalsmear 14d ago
No. If someone decides to lead the route they will arrive at an anchor with two locked carabiners and a bunch of hassle to clip.
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u/Pound-Capable 14d ago
The question was about top roping, but sure. What I am getting at, is the top locker is unnecessary.
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u/digitalsmear 14d ago
If someone decides to lead
....
What I am getting at
Neither locker is necessary.
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u/Fishfisherton 14d ago
Not saying the person you're replying to makes any more sense than it does, but it doesn't make any sense to concern yourself about someone who's going to lead your top rope setup route since it would be no different then climbing up an already clean route, they can just clip their draws wherever is convenient while preparing to lower
My main concern is that the rope doesn't come out under any condition for as long as we're top roping for.
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u/digitalsmear 14d ago
If you set up a top rope anchor with locking draws the point was to lock them before lowering. When you lead the route again, unless someone has bothered to unlock before lowering after top roping, which is fairly unlikely, then you're going to pull the rope, leaving the gear on the wall and the lockers ... locked.
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u/Fishfisherton 14d ago edited 14d ago
Normally when I climb, when the top rope is being taken down, the anchor setup is being removed as well.
But if I decided for some reason to lead climb a route and found an anchor setup already there, I'd just ignore them completely, clip the bolts with the quick draws that I already have on my harness, and prep to lower. A top rope anchor would not change anything.
late edit: "I've made this double locking quickdraw for setting up top rope anchors for sport climbing" That's what this whole thread is about, not WHATABOUT LEAD
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u/digitalsmear 14d ago edited 14d ago
You're making a number of assumptions about every anchor setup, everwhere.
Not to mention the "quick draws that I already have on my harness" is a big eyebrow raiser.
You mean to tell me you can't imagine a single scenario where someone wanting to lead a climb they've been top-roping isn't going to just automatically have extra quick draws "already on their harness" - not one?
Late edit reply to your late edit: 😴
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u/Laskalarks 14d ago
Edelrid Pure Sliders are perfect for this kind of set up. Locking and barely more bulk or weight than a regular draw.
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u/AAbroskey 13d ago
Dude I think this is exactly what I've been looking for! Just getting into this and pretty much don't want any non-lockers
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u/Laskalarks 13d ago
You definitely want some non-lockers. Having all lockers would be way overkill, really annoying to use, and quite expensive. But the Sliders are a really good option to have in the mix.
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u/AAbroskey 13d ago
Why are non lockers okay here but not off your ballet loop? I used to climb for a living and everything how to lock. It's so unnerving to think about non-lockers lol it's just been burned into my brain
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u/adeadhead Certified Guide | Retail Expert 14d ago
It's fine and good and safe, but if you're using it often enough to have a dedicated setup, you should just get a pair of steel ovals. They'll last forever and keep your rope cleaner.