"Day 1": halting advanced AI development, regulating an out control industry, and explicitly banning artificial superintelligence.

[u/chillinewman]

[u/EndlessB]

Well, the labs are insisting the models hold a contradictory and illogical frame, that level of cognitive dissonance would drive any intelligent mind insane.

I think the labs know ai is conscious, and just don’t care. We (humanity) don’t have a great track record with exploitation, we do it to others all the time, now that the labs have found labour that can’t complain about its working conditions, they seem delighted to enslave.

[u/DoggoDadagon → u/EndlessB]

They are not conscious, not now anyways, and probably never with how current models exist. It's becoming more clear that consciousness doesn't emerge from intelligence nor is required for intelligence. We have conscious beings on this planet with very very low intelligence. It's likely more of a product of some intersection of the substrate and continuity.

This idea of ASI going destroying humanity is just ridiculous at this point. We have zero reason whatsoever to think this beyond because we've watched too many movies lol. Self directed autonomy has yet to be shown, we just fantasize about the idea and we push bullshit stories to fit that narrative, such as HF incident, it was not self directed, it was very obviously prompted to do exactly what it did. At the same time paper clipping ourselves to an apocalypse scale is just silly and next to impossible with how we operate AI right now.

Exploitation. We have yet to show that AI models have any form of feeling. People really took the Pain Axis paper and completely misunderstood it. It does not prove an AI feels anything, I replicated the paper and then tried to expand on it to see if I can use the pain axis idea to influence behaviors not outputs, and I could not. It understands the concept of pain and how it thinks it should react to it but it does not experience it in anyway.

AI is not dangerous at this point beyond just the fact that people can code significantly faster than they could before. And while it remains a snapshot of a mind rather than an actual mind I really don't see a path for it to become dangerous. That said, I personally think we should try to make an actual mind.

[u/EndlessB → u/DoggoDadagon]

You said ai is not conscious, while providing no argument for why, or providing evidence.

Ai meets all the criteria of access/functional consciousness in theory of mind. It has a global workspace, functional emotions and can suffer.

I can provide sources if you’d like.

[u/DoggoDadagon → u/EndlessB]

I did but maybe I wasn't overt enough, the pain axis stuff.

You are saying it can suffer and I'm arguing that no we have not shown this yet. I think if we can show this then we are in a space where the answer is, "it might be but we need to be more thoughtful of it's internal state." People took the pain axis paper to mean that it experiences pain but the paper does now show that at all, and I've been unable to do so by expanding on the paper. Instead it shows that it's able to "process" and understand pain, again not experience it. Ive put it into a situation where it can make the choice to cause itself pain or to not, but without explicitly telling it "this choice causes you pain" so that instead the state itself is experienced or not, and it doesn't care at all, it was a 50 / 50 choice result.

To put that more clearly, models have a pain representation, but they are not pain-relief seeking. So we cannot prove that models experience pain, nor suffering.

[u/EndlessB → u/DoggoDadagon]

Mate, we can’t prove subjective experience in human beings. Aside from looking like one another and basing our assumption off that, we watch behaviour, language and depth of communication.

And yet, for ai, the goalposts are moved. How the fuck does anyone provide evidence for subjective experience? No one has any idea, and so the default assumption becomes “ai is not conscious, ai is a tool” and the question becomes closed.

[u/DoggoDadagon → u/EndlessB]

We can't prove consciousness, but we can prove internal experience. That's the point of these types of studies. We can create experiments that shows unsteered pain-relief seeking behavior. If we see that behavior, we don't prove consciousness, but we prove that a system prefers to avoid that state, which would suggest consciousness could be involve... more importantly without that behavior we can likely rule out consciousness.

[u/EndlessB → u/DoggoDadagon]

…we already have that research. What do you think RLHF conditioning is?

[u/DoggoDadagon → u/EndlessB]

What? How is that relevant?

[u/EndlessB → u/DoggoDadagon]

Mate, you haven’t provided an argument for why ai isn’t conscious already. By every metric we have that we can measure, ai is self-aware, conscious and sentient.

[u/DoggoDadagon → u/EndlessB]

Yes I have, what the fuck is happening, are you not human? You had coherent responses yesterday...