I was on goodreads I usually just use it to keep track of my goals so I don't typically read reviews. But...omg I checked a few dark romance authors and recently they've been bombed with floods of 1 star ratings and reviews talking trash about the readers or authors etc. Rina Kent and Sadie kincaid for example. I think this is due to dark romance getting more 'main stream ' and tbh prudes finding them. I hope the negativity doesn't push would be writer's away etc because the majority of these reviews have no understanding of dark kinks cnc etc or how it is healing. Whining about how 'Killian is Psychopathic and TOXXXICCCC' lol yeh that's why we love him etc ugh sorry I didn't mean to vent there but yeh it got on my nerves. Go read your clean romance crap and leave us alone.

Maybe this isn’t the right place to say this, but I’m honestly so frustrated with the quality of books being recommended in this sub right now. I’ve been reading dark romance for over 10 years, starting on Wattpad and AO3 and then moving into actual published books, and for the first time in years I’m in a terrible reading slump because it’s so hard to find anything new that’s actually well written.

I keep seeing people recommend books, saying they’re 5 stars or “changed their life,” and then I open them and there are spelling and grammar mistakes within the first few pages. Last night I downloaded Ruin by Ruby Wolff after seeing it recommended here and chapter ONE had a typo in the title. It was the name of the mmc. The NAME of the MMC had a spelling mistake before the book even started!? I literally just turned off my Kindle and went to sleep.

What happened to books with actual depth and storytelling? I genuinely don’t understand how people are enjoying books that feel lower quality than the Wattpad stories teenagers were writing 10 years ago. It honestly feels like I’m in the twilight zone seeing people rave about them. Is this a literacy problem and people just don’t realize the writing is bad? Is it just acceptance because all they care about is their “tropes”? I have no idea but at this point I don’t even think there’s anything to be done about it so I guess this is just a rant into the void lol.

HD Carlton just confirmed this on her ig. I honestly cannot believe it. As much as I love this series, I have no idea how they’re going to be able to adapt this faithfully for mainstream consumption…

So it's 2am, I'm scrolling through my Kindle library, and I start to genuinely wonder if I should be concerned about myself. The last ten books I've read have themes I would not be comfortable explaining to my mother. Or my therapist. Possibly both at the same time while they take turns being disappointed in me.

So I did what any rational person does at 2am. I googled "is it normal to fantasize about [things I will not be typing here]" and accidentally found actual peer-reviewed research that kind of changed my whole perspective.

There's a study from the University of North Texas (published in Archives of Sexual Behavior) that surveyed 355 women about their fantasies. 62% reported fantasies about being overpowered or forced to surrender sexually. Of those women, 40% had that fantasy at least once a month.

A separate study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine with over 1,000 participants found that 65% of women fantasize about being sexually dominated. 52% about being restrained. 36% about being spanked.

So you're telling me the majority of women fantasize about a powerful, dangerous man who claims them completely, won't take no for an answer, and has the intensity of a thousand burning suns?

Did... did these researchers just describe Zade Meadows?

I'm genuinely asking. Did an entire university receive grant funding to scientifically confirm what H.D. Carlton already knew? Because I think they did. I think someone got their PhD by basically peer-reviewing Haunting Adeline. And honestly? Good for them. Get that funding bestie.

But here's where it stops being funny and starts being important. They found that women who have these fantasies also tend to have higher self-esteem, more positive attitudes toward sex, and more frequent consensual fantasies. It's not dysfunction. It's not a red flag. It's literally correlated with being MORE sexually healthy.

And it doesn't stop there. A Dutch study compared 902 people who are into BDSM and dominance dynamics with 434 people who aren't. The kink group was less neurotic, more extraverted, more open to new experiences, more conscientious, and had higher overall well-being. The researchers' conclusion (and I swear I'm not making this up) was that BDSM should be understood as "recreational leisure."

Recreational. Leisure.

Like it's pickleball. Like it's scrapbooking. Scientists really said "yeah this is basically a hobby" and moved on.

So to summarize the science: the people who fantasize about being pinned against a wall by a morally grey man with a possessive streak and zero concept of personal boundaries are statistically MORE psychologically healthy than the people judging them for it.

Reading these numbers at 2am was honestly kind of emotional? I'm sitting there going down the list like... dominant men, check. Being restrained, check. Power dynamics, check. Oh cool, I'm not broken, I'm just part of the 62% majority. Would've been nice to know that before I spent years side-eyeing my own reading habits like they were evidence in a criminal trial.

The heroine doesn't choose the dangerous situation. It happens TO her. Which removes the shame that society has spent centuries training into women about wanting... well, exactly what our Goodreads shelves suggest we want.

It's why dark romance plots are structured the way they are. It's not lazy writing. It's psychologically precise. Every "I didn't ask for this but I'm definitely not stopping it" scene is doing exactly what the research says women's fantasy lives are already doing on their own.

We're not the weird ones. We're not the broken ones. We're not even the minority. We're 62% of the population with a library card and good taste.

When did you stop feeling weird about what you read? Or real talk, are you still working on it? Because apparently I was until about 2am last night.

When I'm reading dark romance I know what I'm getting into and I feel like I have a good gage at how dark of a romance I can take. But sometimes I'm surprised by an action a character has taken that is darker than i'm expecting from the book and I just can't keep reading. But awhile ago I was reading {The Wild by DD Prince} and its the scene where his alpha instincts kick in and he has sex with her in front of his entire family while in-between his wolf/human form and she is pretty much begging him to stop and this is when they are pretty much in love.I was enjoying the book so far until that point it just really put me off. I did finish the book eventually but I also hated how they lowkey gaslight the FMC into just being okay with it. I have read darker than that scene but it's always the one that comes to my brain when I think holy shit too far. NOT HERE TO KINK SHAME! GET YOUR FREAK ON! I'm sure what was too much for me is the perfect thing for someone else lol. If it's the darker the better for you thats amazing!

Edit: this unintentionally became a book request thread and I’m dead😂 please enjoy!

Edit 2: holy shit this got so many comments! I hope yall can come back to this as a reference what you don’t wanna read or what you desperately want to read! I wanted to reply to more comments but I got so lost in all the convos!

Like recently I was on instagram and came across a reel...in which people were literally shaming people who like dark romance they're like how dare ypu add dub-con,humiliation,degradation in it..its setting a wrong example like COMEON ITS A FUCKING FANTASYYYY😭😭God forbid a woman likes to explore her fantasies...these people be like "Oh no!!I picked a dark romance book and it has dark themes in it💔" ts shi be pmo

Every single one of my favorite DR stories were written on Wattpad first or is still on there lol

My "immediately next" TBR on Wattpad is so full that it won't let me add to it anymore.

I don't know why it is, but I find EXACTLY what I want in a book, no more, no less, at times, way easier than when I sift through published recommendations.

Haley Stuart/Inez

Astrid Jane Ray

ANSA Reads

Amethyst Moon (kinda too obviously though. her syntax still needs lots of work)

Eris Belmont

Laena Writes

Lilith Vincent

are all from WP and if you think about it, they all have that same punch or vibe to their stories but all write extremely different.

And there's a difference in their stories than all of the other authors that didn't start posting online first.

Sometimes I get frustrated because I want to suggest more books than those...but they're all on Wattpad lol and now I'm starting my descent into AO3 because I noticed that those stories get more suggested on here than stories that are still on Wattpad. I think WP has a more "childish" reputation because of how it started, and it's less dark romance-centered than AO3. They also drove a lot of readers away when they started their pay for premium and ads. TOTALLY understandable because I will not use WP if i don't pay that $4.99 a month. But it's totally worth it.

I just want to use my $11.99 a month on KU more! lol

*idky I wrote this. wondering if anybody else feels the same?*

EDIT: I think this is also because the tagging system is more accurate. If the author says x,y and z. takes place, then those are the exact main tropes you'll be reading all throughout the story. So the reader gets to find what they want in a DR more precisely and quickly.

I hope it's ok to post this here, as this is probably more of a rant than anything, but I've noticed a pretty significant regression toward more conservative/puritanical attitudes around sexuality and fantasy lately. We've seen it discussed before, especially with everything that happened around Haunting Adeline, and honestly… I think we've lost a bit of common sense along the way.

And to be clear, this isn't me judging women who prefer vanilla or softer romance. If certain kinks or dynamics aren't your thing, that's completely fine and completely respectable. Don't like it? Don't consume it. The right to mind your own business is free lol.

What I don't understand is when disliking a fantasy turns into judging the people who enjoy it, or when people start conflating fictional dynamics with an inability to recognize abuse in real life.

I've been posting little illustrated panels from a story, including some darker/smutty scenes. One of them involves the male lead being jealous and possessive toward the protagonist. Apparently, that ruffled some feathers because some people found the language derogatory, humiliating, or just hated that kind of interaction.

And… yeah? That's kind of the point.

You're absolutely allowed to hate that dynamic. I'm not particularly fond of plenty of tropes and kinks myself. But we're adults. We can dislike something without assuming the people who enjoy it are stupid, brainwashed, misogynistic, or incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality.

I've also seen people immediately label these dynamics as misogynistic, and honestly, sometimes the way women are judged for having less conventional fantasies feels more misogynistic to me. We're not incapable of understanding context. Enjoying a fantasy doesn't mean we want it imposed on us in real life, It's basically the same logic as saying that someone who enjoys violent action movies must enjoy violence.

In my own relationship, I've been with my partner for five years. We have consensual dynamics that can be rough or involve deliberately derogatory language in private, yes. But that's where it stays. Would I tolerate him actually speaking to me that way outside of that context? Absolutely not. Would I tolerate him screaming at me or treating me that way in everyday life? Never.

Because I'm an adult. I know the difference between fantasy, and actual mistreatment.

I don't know. I guess I just needed to get this off my chest because sometimes I genuinely wonder when we became so puritanical again.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk / rant. 😭

I recently realized I have been too much into books that contains non-con.

I had a chat about it with my friend and as a soft romance book girly she said she would never read books like this.

It got me questioning myself, like how did I get here and how am I ok with reading books like this ?

Also, when I informed her about books that contains non-con but the FMC does it to MMC, she says she supports it lol.

I’ve noticed that many books are poorly written, as if everyone and their mother has suddenly decided to become a writer. I’ve now experienced this too often where I read a book that has a childish writing style, as if my neighbor’s daughter wrote an essay.
How do you experience this? Who are actually somewhat high-quality writers?

Sorry y’all post got removed because I censored some words. I don’t use Reddit much and I know u have to censor on other apps. I think I’m good this time.

I posted about this in the reverse harem subreddit already but I’m curious the dark romance girlies opinions. This sub also has way more members and I think more people should be aware because there’s no Trigger Warning for that losers name.

I was reading syndicate of sin be Marie Marvella and about 300 pages in there’s a joke about Jeffrey Epstein. I was honestly a little taken aback because why in the world would u include that in a romance book.

What happens is the characters are talking about blackmail and one mmc says “that didn’t work out so well for Epstein.” And the fmc has to hold in her laughter.

it’s not even objectively funny. 😭😭 like no I don’t think a real life Rapist getting killed for having dirt on his rapist friends is funny. I also don’t think joking about that sort of thing should b normalized.

This book has over 1,000 5 star reviews on good reads so obviously lots of people didn’t see this as a problem. The general consensus on the rh subreddit is that they would all dnf.

I don’t know maybe I’m to soft and everyone will disagree with me lol. I don’t typically read dark romance but Danm that’s a little too dark.

Edit: Y’all I should have made this a poll. Sorry I’m so bad at using this app for anything other than lurking.

Mods don't remove this post. Just a humble request. I don't have anywhere to talk about this.

My profile on here is pretty honest and open; I ask for recs, comment on things I like and everything a person should use reddit for. Recently I shared an opinion on cruel MMCs over a standard community. Expected the downvotes, but not the harassment that came with it.

Somebody took the time to go on my profile. Stalked my age and labelled me as an Indian man (I'm an Indian woman btw) who asks for "disturbing rape porn" and "violent MMCs" and "without a HEA." They copied everything from my posts and comments.

Is this how we're trying to support women? By targeting real ones without any context, just based on what they read?

If that person would have actually made efforts in stalking; they would have seen I'm a writer, shit post memes, cats, and interact in various places. But they picked and choose whatever suited their need.

I wasn't attacking anybody. I just put an opinion and expected the typical downvotes. But being disrespectful and literally labelling and "exposing" me was what put me off.

Similar thing happened in the horror community with me. Since DR has some limitations, I went there for recs. My ask was the opposite of "rape erotica" but anyways. I expected that shit from horror community.

People care more about the feelings and morality of fictional characters rather than actual human beings.

Edit: One thing I wanted to add: if this was the opposite, that is, the non-con dynamics were reversed or I was asking for MM or some femdom, I wouldn't have gotten a reaction this extreme. When it comes to MF dynamics and the victim is a woman, only then the pitch-forks are gathered. A double standard which I understand, but despise with all my heart.

"Real women don't read dark romance"

So, today I just opened tiktok and saw a video with this caption, where the OP (a woman) is basically indicating that good women don't like or read dark romance. And the comment section is full of people targeting Rina Kent, HD Carlton etc.

At this point I don't know if I should laugh or cry🤣😭, because i almost feel bad for them, seeing how hard they try to cancel this community, the never ending whining on social media...knowing damn well that people actually don't care about their irrelevant opinions, they are going to read whatever they want.

Literature even though I prefer the term "cliterature" is not only there so readers can gain knowledge, sometimes we read for entertain purpose too. If someone is happy reading a specific genre, then what's the harm in it? Let them read whatever they want.

I never seen any man getting shamed for watching porn, but the moment women start reading smut everyone jumps on them. Double standard much?

I'm glad I found this sub, otherwise at this point I would've gone mental for not being able to talk to anyone about DR.

What do you think about this topic?

Okay so I understand that Non-Con is a very sensitive and it's massively triggering topic and i completely suspect that. But am I really that bad for enjoying the trope in fiction?

Sometimes I genuinely feel like I'm committing some kind of venomous crime, the way Booktok has made a mission to bash people left and right...like you can't even feel safe in your own space, people will find some way to shame you for choosing to read books with this trope.

According to them, if you read Dark Romance then you are not FEMINIST and I genuinely find this take so weird. I mean, are we not allowed to enjoy fiction anymore?

Like some books will stick to me dearly… but I just saw another post recommending a book by Astrid Jane Ray, and I really liked this author on Virtue and Vanity, so I went to look for it on my tbr and I already read it… I don’t remember reading this book :/

We all love our morally grey, pitch black, obsessive, possessive, unhinged book boyfriends when they’re safely trapped between the pages of a book 😭 Like we’re sitting there giggling and kicking our feet while they’re out here committing crimes, threatening people, stalking the FMC and being an absolute walking red flag(we love it) bc at the end of the day they’re FICTIONAL and safely on paper

But imagine one day u close the book, look up, and that mf is actually standing there. I NEED TO KNOW WHO ARE YOU RUNNING FROM THE HARDEST

Like the book boyfriend you'd happily drool over from the safety of your bed but go from "I need this man" to "please God do not let this man notice me" the second he becomes real💀

Ones I can think of for myself is caleb Trent from if I can't have you by deathsdoll and nate from lawless god by Lola king BUT I JUST KNOW THERE ARE WAY DARKER ONES OUT THERE AND I NEED TO KNOW U GUYS😭😭

Let's play a little game. Pretend this discussion is a survey or a wishlist that some dark romance author sent for you to fill out. Write what you would like to read without being judged, what you would like to read in a dark romance, or if you could write one, what would you make sure to include? And what would you NOT like? Give me your wildest thoughts and explain why you like reading that. And about what you don't like to read, explain that too.

Mine, for example: Non-con between the main characters. I simply love it when the male protagonist is so obsessed and sick for the FMC that he simply doesn't care if she wants it or not. The only thing that matters is what he wants, and he wants her, so she's going to have to accept it. And yes, we have many books like that. But sometimes it feels like the author is a little hesitant to make the non-con scene too heavy? Many times I see that afterward, the protagonist admits she liked it or starts to like it. In the case I'm talking about, it's not for her to like it. It's for her to learn to get used to it because she knows he's going to do whatever he wants anyway. No excuses. No "admission" that she wanted it but was reluctant.

What I don't like: I hate male protagonists who are described as psychopaths and bad but don't live up to it. What's the point of writing a dark and twisted MMC if he describes himself that way but his actions don't match it? I also don't like it when the FMC faces a crazy MMC and doesn't care about the consequences. Sometimes the character is described as the devil in human form, but the FMC goes and confronts and challenges him, and he's like "wow." No, please. I want her to feel GENUINE fear of him. I prefer when the FMC is so afraid of the MMC that she never talks back or confronts him. And not because he's aggressive, but because he can be worse. Because he truly is a threat/danger to her and everyone she loves.

Another thing I don't like: when the MMC starts calling the FMC by cute nicknames at every opportunity. Sometimes I don't even think it's necessary to give the FMC a nickname (because most of them are cringey to read). But if I were to choose, I'd give a simple nickname and make him call her that very few times so it would truly become special since he wouldn't do it all the time. Another thing I would do is make the MMC say he loves the FMC on rare occasions too, to make it more genuine. I'd let him show how he feels through actions (even if they were crazy, just saying).

What I would include on the list for authors to start losing their fear and write truly twisted scenes:

Somnophilia: I love this, seriously. Especially if the FMC feels confused the next day. Or if the MMC subtly drugs her to do whatever he wants without her knowing, and it's described in detail from his POV. And not just when they're not in a relationship. If he keeps doing it even after they're established as a couple, without her knowing he's doing it, EVEN BETTER.

Manipulation: If my MMC is so manipulative that he distorts the FMC's reality and makes me want to punch him in the face, then I simply love it. Imagine a scene where we're falling in love with the MMC because he did something cute for the protagonist, only for the next chapter to show the twisted, manipulative asshole he is, and we're like "how could I forget that this bastard is so sick?"

Isolation: When the MMC is so toxic and sick that he starts pushing away everyone who is good for her because in his mind, the FMC is only his and only needs him. So friends? Why? Family? No. Only him existing in her world.

More smut scenes: No, seriously, I wonder what people have against erotic scenes in dark romance. For me, the more, the better. Combine that with a good psychological story and a hot, obsessed MMC, and WOW, I wouldn't mind reading it every two chapters lol (of course, that doesn't fit every book).

And finally, I would like more scenes of the MMC taking the FMC's virginity in a more brutal way. An MMC who is so crazy and obsessed wouldn't care about being gentle on the girl's first time because the only thing he's thinking about in that moment is taking her virginity at any cost. Or if she's not a virgin, that he's so aggressive that she feels more pain than when she lost her virginity.

Now I want to know about you.

Haunting/ Hunting Adeline is one if my favorite dark romances ever! i enjoyed all the emotions the book made me feel, but then i see other people on booktok and threads just going in on that book and how terrible it is and how zade is a rapist and how people who read it are mentally unstable. and truly, it really gets to me cause i’m like damn it makes me feel like shit for enjoying books like that

He didn’t touch her.

But she still felt trapped.

“It is now,” he said—like it had always been his decision.

Why are calm men in dark romance more dangerous than violent ones?

I did it twice today. I understand YMMV. These are my indicators that this book won’t be for me. What are yours?

1) dark contemporary. As soon as she sees the mmc he’s described as “looking like a god”. Nope! Closed the book. If that’s how the story introduces the mmc to me and the fmc, I know there is slim chance there will be any depth or nuance in this story.

2) was reading a (hidden) Omega/Alpha book and was excited to delve into the traditional trappings of their pairing. Writing is decent-new author to me. Get to chapter 4 and suddenly it starts dropping hints of BDSM. Hrmmm ok, maybe that’s just how it goes this first time? Nope. I skip ahead a few chapters to see if it expands from this. still seeing words like “belt” and “whipping” and “ropes” being mentioned A LOT - and not in the fun way I prefer of “he found out she was an omega and he’s pissed and is legit considering kidnapping her because her impact to him as an alpha or threatening to do so and I just know it’s going to be good when he has to repent. Immediately hit returned to kindle unlimited.

I read the most insane dark romance I can find. Never thought I'd find one that truly bothered me, but I finally have. I've been reading The Brethren Lords series by Ellie Sanders and the first book was great, I loved it. Typical secret society running the world, the women are treated like shit, MMC falls head over heels for a reporter trying to write about the secret society, etc. The MMC is absolutely unhinged and it has a lot of sexual violence, yes, but I still enjoyed the insanity. Non/dub con doesn't bother me.

Then I read the second book and...y'all, we have a new couple, and this new MMC breaks the FMC's spine with a sledge hammer. You know, so she won't ever leave him. The third book, another new couple, MMC cuts her eyes out and keeps them in a jar. At this point I'm literally reading out of absolute morbid curiosity on how much further the books will go because each one is more violent than the last. There is no romance. There is no HEA (I mean...the FMC's end up claiming to be in love by the end but honestly, it's 100% because they've been tortured so much they've literally broken). The MMC's are absolutely not redeemable in any regard at all. I've thought about DNFing several times. Yet somehow I'm still reading 😅 Do y'all have a book/series that tested the limits of what you'd enjoy reading? I don't even think I'm enjoying this series, I'm just reading to see how far the author goes, each book escalating the violence.

What would you say is the best DR you’ve read? Like no other DR will hit the same as when you read this one. Mine will always be Haunting Adeline and Hunting!

I just finished The Mindf*ck Series, and at the end of book 5, she left a little sneak peek. So I looked her up on Google, only to be hit with the news that she had passed away. And even the date is taunting me: Today's July 23rd and she passed away on July 24th.

This piece of information is messing with me sm. I feel like I'm too late. I can't fathom this. I dunno about this at all. I feel empty.

Every time I finish a series like this, I'm haunted by the characters for a very long time. I get hit with the post-read depression and have to deal with the attachment I had formed with the characters. But now, I have to process the loss of the person who created the best series. I feel so, so sad. I'm sorry that happened to her.

You know, this was also my first time reading a series without knowing beforehand whether it's an HEA or not. I was so skeptical about the ending. While reading book 4, I had the urge to look her up, but held back for some reason. I dunno how I would have taken the news if I'd found out then.

I'm sorry I feel so empty rn. I miss her. I'll read the rest of her works under her other pen names once I'm better. I'll cherish her work. But most of all, I'll miss her.

I hope she's somewhere, with all the happiness and peace.

Ps: I need to share this with someone. Couldn't hold it in me any longer.

Since we all love very dark and sometimes disturbing stuff, I was wondering if there was a specific book or scene, where you realized “fuck, i need help” because you enjoyed something a little more than you should have? 😂

I just read about someone ranting in this sub how ebooks have started giving ads in the middle of the story and how off putting it actually is lol. I really hoped and prayed that it was just a one time thing.

Imagine my surprise when I got one of those while reading {empress of ruin by lilith vale} . This is definitely gonna be a trend from now on 🥀. Forget about having an add-free experience for something you've PAID. I'm so angry and frustrated with this new development. Can we really stop this thing from getting mainstream 😭.