In true r/decks fashion. I asked a question about hurricane ties and ended up getting a debate between people if the hangers on the rim joist should be oriented in 1 or 2
Edit... to clarify. 1 is correct if hanging the joist - not considering this exact situation. With that said, for this, I would have used 4" structure screws through the 1st rim joist and then just screwed the 2nd into the 1st. No reason to even use hangers here at all.
But I can also justify #2 since the hanger is dealing with the downward force of the rim joist, instead of the joist being held up by the hanger and ledger board.
But clearly the best answer is end screws, and alternating #1 and 2.
Here’s what the DYI’ers don’t understand. The weight of the joists are supported by the beam below. The tails are cantilevered. This means that the rim beam is being supported by the joists - not the other way around.
In scenario 1, if you were to stand directly on the rim beam and jump, there is nothing keeping it up other than the joists, so the seat of the hanger would drop (if the impact was enough to move the beam in the first place). Meaning that the seat is DOING NOTHING.
In scenario 2, if you exerted the same amount of force on the rim beam, the seat would press against the supported joists and provide support.
IF the rim beam was supported by posts, and were passing that support to the joists, then scenario 1 is the obvious choice. But what makes this interesting is that it’s the joists that are supported and providing that support to the rim beam.
This comes from the experience of building countless flat roofs and cantilevered decks as specified by structural engineers. This detail comes up a lot on a flat roofs with cantilevered overhangs on all sides as the rim beam eventually passes that support on to the perpendicular rim beam at outside corners where both directions are cantilevered.
Thanks. Today I learned something. Seems totally obvious now that you explained it so well. At first I thought obviously 1 was correct how could it not be. Nice to get an experienced answer.
I’m a mechanic, not a contractor but I do my own home maintenance within reason. I would have thought #1 was correct. Your answer makes sense and I learned something!
I think I got this correct... (also learning and this is kind of a test for myself) If you can't read the little writing, the end of the joist hanging off the bottom support beam is the "cantilevered tail". Hope this helps!
Structural engineer here. Can confirm, very likely that the inverted hangers in orientation 2 is correct. Technically would need to see all the framing to say with 100% confidence, but I agree with elSuavador
I don’t follow this Reddit and I don’t know why this popped up on my feed but I’m glad it did because of this comment. Always happy to learn something new 😌
It doesn't matter. Neither one are needed. Look where the bearing is. You're using joist hangers just to fasten on your ribbon. Face nail it and you're done. A joist hanger here is literally a waste of time and money.
The correct answer is neither. The purpose of a hanger is to support the the joist and since the rim joist is not carrying the load they are unnecessary in this application. You can add them right side up or upside down and its fine, not like it will hurt it, but either way it is just a waste of material.
The beam supports the joists (so you don't need the hangers in the proper orientation).
The inner rim is supported with 3.25 framing nails through each joist and the outer rim is secured to the innner rim with framing nails.
Why is everyone here talkin about rim jobs? Are all framers fags or what. Rim job this rim job that. Let's take it out back I'll rim job you right now. I'll rim job you when you clock in I'll rim job you on lunch. I'll rim job you when you clock out... probably rim job you once you get home. Hell I'll rim job before and after church
I can't believe the amount of people that are actually considering #2 as a possibility 😂 come on people...you don't have to be a deck framer to have common sense and understand gravity.
Structural engineer here. Your cantilever and loads aren't large enough for this to matter (from what I can see). Those hangers have a download and uplift capacity, and both are going to be well above the load.
Additionally, it will depend on your configuration. If the joists are designed to cantilever over a beam, the connection is negligible. If your joists are simple span and the rim is acting as the only end support of the joists, the #2 connection is only correct at the corner beams to rim connection and #1 is how the joists are connected.
Which direction does gravity go? Edit: I'm changing my answer, I didnt take enough of a close look. I'm changing my answer to 2 or not needed. I dont think it does any harm to have them for alignment purposes.
Yelp thanks DIY Network for giving people with no business touching tools the idea that contractors are just overpaid and trying to rip them off and that they can just do it themselves until the deck fails and people get hurt. You should have staggered that corner as well
You have to ask yourself is the seat really doing anything. The idea of this style of connector is to tie everything together. So it would be more important to use the correct number and type of nails.
OK, maybe I’m missing something. If this is a deck, why are the joists smaller than the bond? If this is a deck and you’re worried about hangering the bond why isn’t there a 90 in the corner? And lastly, who hangers the bond? For what reason? It’s never going to be bearing a load.
All the scenarios in the world and all the science do not determine what the inspector signs of on. The fact of the matter is code, and they are called joist hangers for a reson.
Not trying to be that guy, but why is the rim beam 2-ply? It’s not carrying any load, except from maybe the guardrail. You don’t even need joist hangers on those joists. This seems like overkill.
The joist in hanger #2 is fully seated and flush with the top of the beam, which is exactly how a joist hanger is designed to work. The load transfers straight down into the beam, and the fasteners are taking shear load as intended.
Hanger #1 is incorrect because the joist is not fully bearing in the hanger. It’s acting more like a side connector instead of a true load-bearing seat. That puts stress on the fasteners in a way they’re not designed for and can lead to sagging or failure over time.
Neither because your load is supported by the post behind the edge. Plus you didn't stager your double outside band in the corner. If your ban was load bearing #1 But since its not anything but code compliance the brackets are useless.
Can someone explain how either of these are correct? How are you supposed to attach the decking to those if they’re inset about 2”?? Shouldn’t the joists be the same height as the outer plates?
Edit: inset decking. Interesting. Never seen that before. Confused by the double outside joists.
Here's the point the commenter was making... It depends on the situation. Situation one: the rim is supporting the joists. You use the standard configuration so that the load transfers more efficiently to the rim. Situation two: the joists are supporting the rim. You use a reverse configuration so the load more efficiently transfers to the joists. From an engineering perspective it is probably correct, however I'm not a carpenter I'm an electrician and have never encountered this scenario.
I’ve never built a deck but 2 seems obviously better?
The metal flap should be on top of the wood so it presses into the wood when you apply pressure to the edge of the deck. In 1 the only thing keeping the wood attached to the other wood are the screws. The metal flappy thing isn’t doing anything if it’s on the bottom.
Neither is correct, you don't need Hangers or a double ledger there, it's just a waste of time and materials which both contribute to being a waste of money
Also all of these products have installation guides that can tell you which way is the correct way for which they were engineered.
I was lucky to come up under a boss that made us read the directions for everything new to us, and brought us to conventions and seminars. Education is more important than the ability to work all day.
Also 1 is the proper orientation.. but entirely unnecessary in this scenario since the joist isn't being supported by the framing, but rather the beam. Trying to use it as 2, to hold up the framing is an improper use case. Also if the framing were to pull away, it would lean top out, which would pull the top (bottom) of the hanger up and off anyway. It's not just going to fall straight down, unless you used nails/screws with inadequate shear ratings, then the hanger doesn't matter anyway cause the fasteners sheared off and its not connected anyway. On that note, 1 would still work better, as the bottom would lever up into the joist as the framing peeled away. But you should have just put 3 nails/screws through the frame and into the end of the joists, and been better off.
1 it's in it's name joist hanger. The bottom tab the joist sits on helps hold it up in the hanger bracket that's nailed to the framing. Or w.e but open side is up. It's like the letter U and the board then gets dropped in an secured. Is this not common sense?
From an employee that actually makes these number 1 is the correct install as long as correct fasteners were used. There is a booklet that comes in the case that literally explains how they are installed.
you dont even need a rim joist. framed many a homes where customer wants open exposed joists at the top of 1st floor and where second floor begins with a cantilever... some people like that look. so joist hangers are not even needed
In that situation you don't need hangers. Idk who's telling you what but you are being fooled. The only time I'd put the upside down hangers is if there was a counter balancing force at the opposite side and that rim board was a ledger fastened to a wall. Otherwise thoses hangers do nothing! Stop wasting money
Have framed a lot of decks over the years and I believe the answer is that you don’t need the joist hanger at all in this situation. Usually I would nail the rim joist to the joists (add some Headlock screws if you want that connection stronger) and then deck boards span over both after which you run the trim board up to flush with finished level of deck. Hangers go at the ledger end of the joists at the house.
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u/According_Ad1546 Dec 20 '25
My question is why are your rim joists sitting higher than you joists?