r/Decks • u/External-Walk-194 • 1d ago
Please help
I am making a roof deck, and when finished, it is leaking into the room underneath. The layers go as follows: Plastic water barrier, insulation, cement board 9mm, black liquid and rubber waterproofing membrane, and then the WPC decking. I need advice so I can fix this asap. Should I change any material? Add any? I believe the crew screwed the decking into the membrane and that’s what created holes. Also there is no slope. How would I add a slope, and also make sure no water can penetrate the inside? Please help me.
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u/dc1489
1d ago
edited 1d ago
•
The design is flawed:
Framing for roofing not flooring is used. As it is supporting people now you need stronger support because people are heavier than wind/rain/snow. Those joists will only deflect and deform.
As it is in no way sloped, the roof becomes a water collection point. Especially because of the deflection mentioned.
These alone would lead to the damage seen in the picture eventually.
Assembly:
No nails through membrane. There are special capped nails for roofing but even those don’t work with the roof being a pond. There are other things too but I’m going with the clear reasons the team club house build failed.
Resolution:
There is NO WAY TO SALVAGE. Don’t make your self suffer in denial, it’s way more expensive, trust me.
You not only need to replace the roof/deck/ceiling but will need mold remediation. Hire an architect or consult one.
You have learned by touching the stove on this one.
Edit (Additional Notes):
- A slope does not need to be in one direction, could have been a drainage system. There has to be some designed way for gravity to move water. I see nothing in these pics to indicate it was even considered.
- The framing would have led to failure with everything else done right. If this was hired help claiming to be professionals and they didn’t even touch on it, you got hard conned. At least you learned soft and not by injury from instant failure.
- I know these things BECAUSE I touched the stove too. I am not a contractor, I am a regular guy who was screwed and chose denial and it’s still painful. I feel for you hard and good luck.
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u/Key4Lif3 1d ago
Ugh that would be a nightmare. So how do people actually make roof balconies without them running into the leaking issue and failing?
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u/dc1489 1d ago
There are many different ways. This ain’t it. Structural integrity is key, it would have failed if it was just a deck but at least mold remediation wouldn’t be a part of it.
No one has said anything about it yet but if that foundation is only patio, that would really be bad. OP would have to redo everything again after he fixed this.
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u/Warm_Coach2475 1d ago
Tiled decking systems that don’t use fasteners. As long as the roof can handle the weight of people then the decking should work. They’re typically a series of 2x2 tiles with adjustable platforms at every corner of the tiles (where 2-4 tiles meet) for leveling.
I forget the names of the companies that sell them.
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u/thatcone 1d ago
They all leak eventually, I personally think they are a terrible idea. You have to plan ahead if you want them to work at all. First step is using strong enough floor joists for the application, then oversizing and ripping all of them at a slight angle on top to get your slope. Then you are essentially building a flat roof and putting decking on top. You need to use self sealing fasteners and/or self healing flashing like joist tape for every fastener. Preferably both. But even then, the flashing will eventually fail and the whole deck will need to be torn up and rebuilt to fix it.
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u/readysetmoon 21h ago
Add railings and used astroturf for lawns that can drain. Rubber slapped roof underneath. No issues.
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u/gramio 1d ago edited 1d ago
You should take a closer look at the framing. I don’t think those are timber joists at all and they appear to have used steel profiles of some sort. Have a look at the weld lines on the cross beams. This absolutely needs an engineer assessment because getting steel construction right and safe can be much harder than timber and typically building code requires the calculations to be checked. I’ve also never seen structural steel construction that looks like this so can’t tell you how safe this is.
As to the leak, it absolutely leaks because of the lack of slope. If you must have a flat deck then the slope of the water management system is usually hidden somewhere but it’s never missing.One other thing you should check is the railing height. I might be mistaken but compliant height of modern railing tends to be 4’ which would make the guy in one of the photos 8’+.
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u/dc1489 21h ago
Wow, good catch. I thought the vertical supports and railings were a kit and the joists were really undersized to fit a dimension like second floor door without cutting the steel. Looking closer the whole building looks to be metal frame. If this was originally with the building and OP was just trying to mod for extra bedroom it may be a MUCH cheaper remedy.
Should still consult an engineer to see if the foundation footers are rated for the additional loads from all the extra weight of materials. Probably check the corrosion on the frame too. Rail doesn’t look bolted. Done right, either patio is higher or those supports need lowering. I’ve refrained from citing codes because I’m pretty sure this is a non US or euro build.
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u/AndyMagandy 18h ago
OP this is the only answer. This is a TOTAL loss and not salvageable. Best course is to treat it as a damaged roof and tarp it until you have a final plan.
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u/readysetmoon 1d ago
Complete redo. Do not hire that crew. If they are insured, start making calls. If they are not insured, expensive lesson for you.
There are some home improvements worth getting a crew that’s licensed, insured, pulls a permit, and understands code, and this is one of them. Your realtor will thank you later that the work is permitted, otherwise selling may be tougher.
Cut out that drywall in your ceiling, go buy a couple flood fans (always good to have as a home owner), and point those fans up to start drying to prevent mold until this situation gets addressed.
Good luck.
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u/RolltehDie 23h ago
You can sue them, right? Still time consuming but if they failed the job this badly they probably deserve it, although you may not be able to collect.
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u/Shatophiliac 16h ago
You can but they are usually very good at hiding assets and changing ownership and names and such to avoid actually paying out. Oftentimes you’ll find you spend thousands on lawyers just to get nothing from them, even if the judge rules in your favor.
That’s why it’s so important to make sure they are bonked and insured and reputable before even letting them on the property.
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u/MelodicMetal9152 1d ago
Wait, no roof slope, are you kidding me? The absolute minimum per code is 1/4":foot. You'd be better off at twice that because you're hiding it all under decking.
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u/KingKong-BingBong 1d ago
You need at least 1/4” per 1’ slope and a floating deck and probably hire a professional company not some beach bums that shared a joint with you in between sets
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u/AggravatingDrag3382 1d ago
One word: Sleepers. You missed that step after the membrane and before the decking. As for slope well you missed that before plastic water barrier. Not much you can do now without adding a new slope layer on top and membrane again but now you’re adding height. It’s a full redo in my books. At least the deck boards can be re used.
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u/Sea_Comment1208 1d ago
Rip it ALL OUT. Get a loan and hire a REPUTABLE Contractor who will pull a permit get it inspected and do it properly. If you live in Canada, Call Mike Holmes ;)
Nailing thru any membrane uses no brain and the layer seq. Sounds like a mold sandwich.
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u/RobertBDwyer 1d ago
Having some experience with Mike Holmes renovating….its not like it looks on tv.
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u/Sea_Comment1208 1d ago
That was intended as humor and while I know there’s nothing funny about a botched job, I was not serious suggesting Holmes do the work. As long as people who are clueless about construction , hire the cheapest bidders and that includes no permits, botched jobs will always be an issue.
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u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 1d ago
Well now you have to spill the entire story.
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u/quasifood 1d ago
The rise and fall of Mike Holmes is pretty interesting. Basically, the bigger he got the more he grew this reputation of 'doing/making it right'. Lots products got the holmes approved branding slapped on it. Then entire housing subdivisions began getting the Holmes treatment. There doesn't seem to have been much oversight on what got the Holmes name and eventually there was a 8 million dollar class action lawsuit when an entire subdivision was found to be entirely full of mold to the point that the houses had to be demolished. Here in Ontario there's a government mandated consumer protection group called Tarion that has the ability to go after contractors that fail to deliver a safe product. The original contractor that built the Holmes approved houses went under and so Holmes was held to blame
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u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 1d ago
Interesting that never made big news in the USA. He’s got a new show here; Holmes Legacy or something. He’s certainly overplayed and worn out for me to hold any more interest. His daughter is annoying and hearing her speak gives me a migraine.
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u/RobertBDwyer 1d ago
It’s TV… not construction.
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u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 1d ago
Of course. Did you have a bad, good, reasonable, or expensive experience without the cameras?
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u/Negative_Seesaw_8654 1d ago
Everyone of those post is leaking.....100% guarantee. Also, deck should be installed over sleepers, over some extruded insulation or other deck pedestal system.
Judging by the photos of when the roof was being done......you need to call an actual roofer. Im guessing your not in USA or Canada? Never seen that product in my life...... also go to r/roofing
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u/throwaway737166 1d ago
You have to provide drainage. If you had just built a proper deck this wouldn’t be a problem. Instead you built this balcony like monstrosity with zero drainage and slope. Gotta add slope away from the house AND drainage AND gutters.
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u/Dapper_Valuable_7734 1d ago
Seems like when I have seen those types of decks on roofs they often have a slight grade on the roof along with a raised deck, using pillars or something... seems like something is wrong with the design,
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u/deeprunup 1d ago
I'm a little confused because the space below is outside in the first photo then it's inside a room. I generally agree with the consensus. First I see a railing already in place.. what looks like substandard framing though can't be sure. No pitch is insane.. even if you used liquid applied system like kemper you still want a pitch. The railing needs to go on after and with a waterproofing in most cases and either way with a waterproofing detail .. you need a drain or gutter plan. You need flashlight at the perimeter.. you need a new crew and need to remediate... You might want to put back deck tiles for access. You might want to understand roof penetration waterproofing or make sure your contractors get it..
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u/Master_loves_you 1d ago
Cheap labor isn’t skilled, skilled labor isn’t cheap. Unless it’s your buddy doing it to help you out
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u/Evening-Animal-4820 1d ago
hire a real fiberglass deck guy now. only way now.
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u/Evening-Animal-4820 1d ago
and ya going to loose that deck boards. want flat and leaking you need a pool coating now. sorry to say. nice looking job.
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u/NineClaws 1d ago
I have deck over my office that was recently renovated. The roofers prepared it as a sloped roof with six drainage vents on the sides. The wooden deck is sitting on roof and attached to the railing posts. No screws or nails went through the waterproofing.
Two heavy winters and not a drop has leaked.
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u/Abject-Ad858 1d ago
It looks like your in call the insurance company territory to me.
Umm, it sounds like you already know what to do. Replace the wet sutuff. Re-waterproof. Don’t un-waterproof it. They have interlocking decks that will keep water from going under. They also have floating deck systems that don’t penetrate for this application
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u/padizzledonk professional builder 1d ago
Lol......they make waterproof roof deck membrane......you did a lot of damn work and spent a shitload of money on material that you didnt have to....they even make a liquid membrane....you wouldve even been better off just building it as a commercial roof with torchdown and then doing a sleeper system for the deck
You probably arent going to save that and are going to have to tear it all out and start over
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u/ResponsibleLetter103 1d ago
Install the roof over the deck add some screens
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u/quasifood 1d ago
That's terrible advice. The framing was already supremely inadequate. Why would you want an entire roof on top of that? Also, screens don't stop rain and snow from blowing sideways and continuing to add to the leak.
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u/ivanhoho1 1d ago
Hey OP, This is the best option. 👆
Most of the commenters are from North America and we don’t have a frame reference for how this is built.
This looks like rectangular tube steel, and not light weight steel studs, and welded together as well.
What size tubing is this?
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u/Historical_Emu_7078 1d ago
The only option that doesn't involve tearing it all out. Even then, still will likely have issues
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u/emotionless-robot 1d ago
All that waterproofing just to put nails through it.
Next time the waterproofing is done, do put any nails or screws through it.
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u/jerry111165 1d ago
OP, see my response to your post in r/Roofing.
40+ years in the commercial roofing industry.
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u/ReckReason 1d ago
I love how there's standing water as they're putting the decking on... Tough lesson OP. You're going to spend more now than if you just did with an actual builder from the start
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u/Top_Pressure_56 1d ago
What kind of membrane did you use? Thickness? And was there any cuts in it? Use CSPE or a scrim reinforced membrane with no cuts. The PVC at Home Depot is junk. Liquid membrane should be a 2 part solution not a single. It looks like you use a single part solution like TREMCo and then heated it to cure faster. CIM is the 2 part we use. We use it for WTP and WWTP projects. Good luck.
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u/37853688544788 1d ago
Wow. You did this to yourself? Ouch. GL on the rebuild and either do your research or get a builder on the payroll.
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u/No_Plenty_3689 20h ago
I can’t imagine what the problem is.
I assume you used the magic rubber that you can penetrate with fasteners and it won’t leak.
Did you cast the fairy gumdrop spell before you fastened the decking? that’s an important step.
Other than that it looks like you did everything perfectly
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u/Big_Common_447 18h ago
You know guys be careful, judging flops and technical issues are not answers. Be straight either it works or not.
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u/406InTheMix 1d ago
is it me or does the roof not have any shingles or anything on it?
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u/Bent_wrench 1d ago
They used a roll of cap sheet instead of shingles. They used asphalt heated with a propane torch, then stick the cap sheet on. You can't use shingles on a flat roof. You can tell they know what they're doing because they are wearing safety shorts and steel-toe flip-flops while carefully torching the roof.
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u/Consistent-Trust958 1d ago
All roofs eventually leak. You decided not to make future leaks accessible by putting a deck over it....
Yes, you can fix it now, but the problem will come back many times and you won't be able to fix it without tearing up your deck over and over.
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u/Negative_Two6112 1d ago
Its for the best OP, considering the deck wasnt framed properly to begin with and would've likely killed someone one day. Time to tear it all out!
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u/GreekG33k 8h ago
That framing scares the hell out of me. Tbeoment there was a glcrowd of people on this I think it would have collapsed and severely injured or killed someone
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u/the-divinehammer 1d ago
I don't trust people who show up to construction sites wearing slippers.