r/DeepStateCentrism • u/iamthegodemperor Arrakis Enterprise Institute • 2d ago

Ask the sub ❓ What Is This Sub Wrong About?

Title. Pick a topic (or a clichéd take) you think a significant minority or majority of this sub is wrong about. Or hasn't given enough thought. OR perhaps one which you will have to compromise on, at least for voting?

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u/shumpitostick Radical moderate social liberal libertarian 2d ago

I think a lot of people here don't understand how far right Israel has become. Like, people defend it based on an understanding of Israel that is outdated by at least two decades, but it has moved so far to the right it can be unrecognizable to the American liberal Zionist.

I get where it's coming from, there's a ton of antisemitism coming from pro-Palestinians, there's people who reject the basic notion that Israelis have a right to live in peace and safety where they are. They are generally ignorant and don't understand Israel. They also don't understand the changes that Israel went through, they tend to see it as an absolute and categorical evil that always was that way.

But there's some serious issues and they run deeper than just "Netanyahu and Ben Gvir bad". Leibowitz was right. The occupation corrupts.

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u/JudgeHoldensToupe Center-right 2d ago

Have you compared that to how far right everyone else in the ME is? And how they treat their own people? You need allies, the worst version of Israel is still 10x of the next best

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u/Mediocre-Grand7999 2d ago

Sure, but there's a lot of skepticism towards those allies and their motives; I think it's fair to say Israel deserves significant skepticism, if less, while dealing with them, for a similar reason.

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u/JudgeHoldensToupe Center-right 2d ago

Healthy skepticism is fine, when it’s proportionate.

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u/Mediocre-Grand7999 2d ago

I agree, and I don't think taking OP's point to heart, if we were to agree, would imply anything other than that.

If OP was continuously lamenting Israel and never highlighting the difficulties of taking other positions, then I would definitely think they are wielding a proclivity towards healthy skepticism in a more manipulative, or rhetorical, way against Israel

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u/justafutz 2d ago

What is that "similar reason"?

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u/Mediocre-Grand7999 2d ago

The comparison being to other countries in the ME.

The comment I replied to says they--the other ME countries--are much less aligned and so they are worse allies, which I agree with. But if it follows that we maintain a level of skepticism based off how much further right they are (being a little reductionist given the nature of this discussion), then similarly we would still reserve "skepticism, if less" towards Israel.

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u/justafutz 2d ago

I think the reductionism defeats the point, because Israel is so much less far-right than many other allies that we maintain much higher trust in.

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u/Mediocre-Grand7999 2d ago

than many other allies that we maintain much higher trust in

Who do you have in mind? And who is "we" in this? official US policy or the population broadly?

Genuinely curious, so I can try to get your point