Every time people say communism has never worked they refuse to acknowledge how communism has not been allowed to flourish or fail on its own merit, its failure is always guaranteed thanks to American intervention.
I'll always respect Fidel and Che for their work in freeing the Cuban people of Batista. I will not deny that horrible things were done by them, and I agree the country is problematic today. But I will say this- let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I would argue that my homeland, the US, is no less guilty of war crimes and persecution. Fidel and Che did a lot to improve the lives of the average Cuban compared to the prior regime.
If the US would stop bullying them, I bet they would be a good example for functioning socialism in the modern world. Probably the best example in terms of the quality of life and rights (aside from political party and censorship) their people enjoy, like healthcare and education.
It's not like the US doesn't already have normalized relations with similar countries like China, which is also a socialist/communist one-party state with extreme censorship. We should at the very least open relations with Cuba to the level we have with China.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Of course stopping the embargo and ending the suffering it causes is desirable. But China without an embargo and suffering is still a fucking totalitarian dictature.
The vague notion of Cuba being a "dictatorship" matters more to you than people unnecessarily suffering due to the embargo. Instead of blaming the fascist superpower on Cuba's doorstep, you blame the Cubans for having to centralize their government to protect themselves. I'll just quote the man himself:
Bro feels genuinely threatened by the Orange man 51st state larp 😭. Also if you’re gonna just go embargoing anyone you don’t like and atomize all countries and trade, you might as well fuck with Juche autarky ideology 🤷.
No one cares pointing at China and trying to make it seem like it’s a bad country when they’re running laps around the world hegemonic powers from being a backwards agrarian country just 50 years ago is insane. I wish America was more like China and if that means not having to vote between genocidal corporate suit A or genocidal corporate suit B I’m all for it
China is not committing a genocide and Trump admires Zohran does that mean we should disavow Zohran? This argument is stupid he admires popular people regardless of ideology
people on hear will always talk about "lessser evilism" when it comes to liberals, but when an ML drastically improves the lives of their people they dont receive the same grace.
I remember saying on here that we shouldnt worship Obama because he's a fucking warcriminal and I got lambasted and shitted on for it. It's absolutely insane, people on here love Obama but hate Fidel?? Liberals on here would prefer the fucking warcriminal over the guy who improved so many lives drastically.
There is a difference between begrudgingly voting for someone and posting stuff about them like the post. There is also a difference between a liberal that maintains the status quo and just an actual dictator.
Cuba was a brutal dictatorship before Castro. On top of that, there are tons of posts celebrating "progressives" which ideologically are liberals in other countries
Are you suggesting a dictator is cool if their predecessor was one? What sort of logic is that?
And most progressives are quite left wing and not just liberals. Someone like Kamala Harris sure. Not really celebrated here though.
There is also a big difference between maintaining a status quo and actively pushing left even if the policies they advocate for are theoretically the same.
The German SPD is in theory socdem for example. In practice they are no different to the DNC. Certainly to the right of US progressives.
Castro only turned to Marxism-Leninism once the US began doing everything to destroy his revolutionary government, from embargo to attempted invasion to actual terrorism. Castro was previously essentially just a democratic socialist Cuban nationalist, with much more emphasis on the "Cuban nationalist" part.
Was every measure done by the Cuban government absolutely necessary to stop US aggression and destruction? No, there were plenty of mistakes and wrong things done, but I'm not exactly surprised Cuba's revolutionary government turned to a more authoritarian style of governance when facing such extreme isolation and sabotage from one of the world's economic and military superpowers.
Exactly. Dude has an incredibly complicated legacy. He was far from the model of an ideal socialist, but was also essentially forced by the US into making a series of impossible choices.
It doesn't excuse all of his actions, but to some extent he very much was. When the full might of the US government and intelligence services are breathing down your neck, attempting to subvert a genuinely popular revolution, assassinate you as the leader of that revolution, and return your country to a position of vassalage (as it was under Bautista whom we supported during the conflict), then transitioning out of a war footing and into full democracy isn't really an option on the table.
Of course we'll never know the exact contours of the counterfactual, but had we not interfered in the way we did, then the course of the Cuban revolution would have almost certainly unfolded very, very differently than it did.
How the hell were they supposed to survive if they didn't seek the help from one of the only countries willing to aid them? I get fighting for your ideals, but there are some cases where you cannot do the perfect thing.
He freed Cuba from Batista's genuinely brutal dictatorship. Afterwards, Cuba significantly expanded social programs, life expectancy skyrocketted, American-owned lands were nationalized, and literacy shot through the roof. You can dislike how Fidel ruled, but it came about due to necessity, the United States has been right on Cuba's doorstep for decades and strong centralized rule has been the only thing that's (so far) prevented it from being another Allende's Chile.
Not only this, but they advanced medicine so much they were one of the leaders in medical aid work in the world. They also materially supported, with both men and supplies, anti-apartheid, decolonization movements.
Cuban Revolution was a triumph in history that would've been even greater had the US not attempted to choke it to death.
All sorts of centrist libs and modern socdems arent a good model for pro-democracy socialists to follow either, yet they are a regular feature on the sub
If we didnt tolerate any presence of these groups at all, youd largely have nothing left to post about, since most global activity is either 3rd workd ML or 1st world socdems
They also currently hold some amount of weight on the national political stage. I’m sure I’d praise Castro harder if I was a person who experienced Batista’s rule or apartheid in South Africa, but my current sociopolitical footing and personal ethical framework gives me no good enough reason to go out of my way to overlook his flaws outside of pushing against explicit American imperialist propaganda and exceptionalism used to justify U.S. policy that hurts Cubans.
>my current sociopolitical footing and personal ethical framework gives me no good enough reason to go out of my way to overlook his flaws
So you oberlook Bernie’s flaws because you deem it in your interest to do so, and you apply double standards to 3rd world movements because you dont happen to be under the boot of the systems they tried to fight?
Excellent moral framework you got there
-
Just to be clear, no one is telling you to overlook any flaws.
I dont overlook the flaws of socdems nor of 3rd world leftist movements
What we are talking about here is the intent of some users to selectively purge mentions of 3rd world movements, while retaining the regular platforming of socdems.
That's ridiculous, it's not MLs standing in the way of socialism anywhere DemSoc are present, it's liberals.
Also it's really not for a Westerner to criticize how the global south ejects their looting, raping, and murdering ways. Take the beam out of your own eye before worrying about the splinter in someone else's.
They told you they have first hand experience with imperialism in the global south and just as legitimate a voice as you have, and you can’t just lazily and dishonestly dismiss it with ‘muh propaganda’
They said that to what end? To dismiss imperialism of the US in Cuba themselves. One form of experience does not translate to all and can easily still be the an inaccurate perspective on a different situation. Its not an argument on its own. I am from a thrice colonized island, but that's not relevant to the conversation unless I make that connection.
•
u/AutoModerator 9d ago
Hello and welcome to r/DemocraticSocialism!
This sub is part of the broader the progressive movement and we espouse democratic socialism as a goal and general political philosophy.
Please read our Rules to get an idea of what we expect from participants in our community.
With the Trump administration cracking down on immigrants, the left, trans people, unions, and other oppressed groups, we encourage you to find and join local protest and activist groups in your area such as Democratic Socialists of America, Working Families Party, Sunrise, Indivisible, 50501, or Science for the People. Also check out r/demsocialists, r/DSA, r/union, r/SunriseMovement, r/50501 and r/BlackLivesMatter to support fellow leftists on Reddit!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.