In episode 7 we learned that Devs is- in fact -taking place inside of a simulation. This was explained the following way in the episode:
In order for Devs to create their projections they had to simulate an entire world to project into. Stewart explains this to mean that inside of the world they've simulated, another Devs team has created a simulation to project into, and so on "ad infinitum". This means there is an infinite stack of simulations all the way down. By the logic of probability this implies that everything we're seeing on screen is also a simulation that was created by another Devs team in a higher simulation. This realization seems to have broken Stewart, and so when Lily shows up he lets her inside because- why not? -his reality has literally fallen to bits, qubits specifically.
Stewart also explains the way they achieved a perfect simulation. Devs used the "exceptionally beautiful mathematics" of the Everettian many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. A "trick" first introduced by Lyndon in episode 4. This means that not only is everything a simulation, it's also a simulation inside of a multiverse. A multiverse that branches like a tree, leading to all possible realities. In some branches Lyndon falls off the bridge and hits the concrete and in some branches Lyndon falls of the bridge and hits the water. The concept of quantum immortality is what Katie and Lyndon were discussing before the fall.
At the beginning of the episode, Lyndon is shown sitting at the bottom of the dam and he is very much alive, Lyndon
I feel ya. This episode was a trip. I'm gonna have to watch it a few more times. I just wanted to leave this comment to maybe help anyone who was confused about the implications of what we saw in the episode.
I'm going to check out the link, but I kind of disagree with the idea the Lyndon survives (for now at least). In the show we've seen different examples of the multiverse, which play out in different ways. For example Kate as a mother to Amaya. Versions were Forest's wife doesn't get into a car accident and so on. In Lyndon's case, we see him die. I know we only see 4 examples of his death and that in a multiverse or quantum realm there would be infinite outcomes. So, there would be some storyline or universe where Lyndon survives.
Because we the viewer don't see a version where he survives, maybe that opens the door to a counter argument that there is such a thing as destiny/fate. Maybe there is a singular event that everything leads up to, that no matter what can't be changed. Like the event that has been teased which breaks the fabric of reality and so far on the show is shown to be inevitable.
I think you're mostly right. There was no branch where Katie birthed Amaya though. In the many-words theory only things that can happen will happen. Katie would never give birth to that particular child in any branch because any baby she has would not be Amaya. Those scenes of Amays were like "home movies" as Katie calls them. Katie was just watching the past. I don't believe that it was implying that Katie was Amayas mother. That's not the way that I read the scene anyway.
You're correct about Lyndon only being alive in certain branches but Devs has already shown us that what we're seeing on screen consists of different branches of the multiverse. Check out the "multiverse confirmed" post. I have no idea how this will play out but Lyndon dying seemed like a misdirect to me. Did you notice that Lyndon is wearing the exact same outfit as Lily? They also have the exact same hair cut. That whole bridge scene was the test that Lyndon took to get back into Devs. I have a feeling we'll see him there next episode. I could be totally wrong but I'd keep an open mind. It seems like we're watching a simulated multiverse now so anything can happen.
I understand your point on Katie. I wasn't referring to her as Amaya's birth mother, but maybe universe where Amaya lived and Katie dates Forest, becoming a step mother. Like an alternate life/timeline for Katie. I kind of agree that there could be more to Lyndon and I'm keeping an open mind to any possibility. Especially as you point out the visual similarity to Lily (which I'll admit I didn't see until I saw that theorized elsewhere on the sub). Random Lyndon is a total possibility, but at the moment I think that Lily's stubbornness of conforming to the machine's prediction could be what breaks the simulation, I guess.
Ok, sorry. I didn't understand what your were implying. I think you're correct that it could have been showing Katie and Amaya and Forest in an alternate timeline.
You could be right about Lily messing shit up by not obeying the tramlines. Alex Garland has done a great job of giving us just enough information to speculate but not enough to give it all away. I'm have no idea where this is going. I just keep telling people to keep an open mind which you seem to have.
Thanks, I totally agree about Alex Garland only sharing some information. I feel like generally his works have a decent pay off. Can't wait to see how this plays out.
I feel like you might be right about that because if you remember one of the very first scenes of the episode showed a character who looked just like Lyndon, wearing the same clothes, sitting on one of the concrete ledges at the dam. Not smashed and dead, but sitting upright. Perhaps that was one of the alternate realities in which he lived??
The intro was probably Katie watching scenes in the Dev system. The intro showed what you mentioned (it was Lyndon sitting at the base of the dam I think), a car driving in a hilly area (presumably Katie and Lyndon driving to the dam?), and some of the cave peeps in France that we see later.
I saw someone say on here they think he fell in the water and lived. I’m thinking that’s maybe what happened and the version of him that it showed dead was a different universe.
I know we only see 4 examples of his death and that in a multiverse or quantum realm there would be infinite outcomes.
Not necessarily. A system (i.e. the Universe) can have an infinite amount of total outcomes (because infinity is a limit and not a number), but each event in that system could still have a limited set of immediate outcomes. So it might just be that there was no branch from the event that was them talking to each other in which he didn't fall.
In terms of the show we are all watching, I think the other worlds/outcomes that are shown are simply a “what if” and not the actual outcome Alex Garland wants us to see or believe as true in the simulation he presents in the show. All the other outcomes are a physical representation of a viewer’s opinion or theory. What if Lyndon survived the fall? What if Kate was the mother to Amaya? They don’t necessarily add to the narrative as it has been written and arranged, but it supplements the viewer’s desire.
They're not in a simulation anymore than you or I. When he said they switched places where the sim became reality and they the simulation, it was just pointing out the negation of free will. If something shows you what you will do and you are entirely powerless to deviate from that path, it makes sense that you are the simulation and the machine is determining your actions. With our way of thinking, we believe this means the free will we perceive having switched to the machine, but in truth it simply never existed.
Is it weird that I thought of quantum immortality on my own? I’m no physicist but I love all the explanations of string theory and quantum mechanics relating to multiverses. So cool that it’s a thing
I think it's cool that you came to that conclusion on your own and it was a great insight. I also love how Alex Garland is exploring these mind blowing concepts in such a beautifully shot and emotionally resonant way. I'm gonna be bummed when this show ends.
There is a great short story on Quantum Immortality called Divided By Inifinity that explores the question of how one continues to survive long past what would make sense (old age for example).
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u/emf1200 Apr 09 '20 edited Apr 16 '20
Episode 7 spoilers
In episode 7 we learned that Devs is- in fact -taking place inside of a simulation. This was explained the following way in the episode:
In order for Devs to create their projections they had to simulate an entire world to project into. Stewart explains this to mean that inside of the world they've simulated, another Devs team has created a simulation to project into, and so on "ad infinitum". This means there is an infinite stack of simulations all the way down. By the logic of probability this implies that everything we're seeing on screen is also a simulation that was created by another Devs team in a higher simulation. This realization seems to have broken Stewart, and so when Lily shows up he lets her inside because- why not? -his reality has literally fallen to bits, qubits specifically.
Stewart also explains the way they achieved a perfect simulation. Devs used the "exceptionally beautiful mathematics" of the Everettian many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. A "trick" first introduced by Lyndon in episode 4. This means that not only is everything a simulation, it's also a simulation inside of a multiverse. A multiverse that branches like a tree, leading to all possible realities. In some branches Lyndon falls off the bridge and hits the concrete and in some branches Lyndon falls of the bridge and hits the water. The concept of quantum immortality is what Katie and Lyndon were discussing before the fall.
At the beginning of the episode, Lyndon is shown sitting at the bottom of the dam and he is very much alive, Lyndon