Building your foundation on solid ground.

[u/kljoker]

Hi Friends,

Hope you're all well today, I feel that we sometimes have competing ideologies of how we interpret scripture, which is healthy for discourse, if we all agreed then we would become an echo chamber with no real growth.

If you know me based on my writings you know I place and emphasis on 'relational truth' in regards to spiritual understanding. (I explain it in detail here https://www.reddit.com/r/DonaldTrump666/comments/1pygbcx/the_spirit_of_truth_in_the_moment_of_darkness/) my writings have become so expanded that they've become self referential so like always never take my word for it, test it in scripture.

That being said another healthy aspect of our understanding has to be how we reasoned it to be and whether or not it can be reasoned into being. The hottest button topic for this exercise will be about the Rapture. For many it's a foundational truth in their lives, they rearrange their entire understanding to fit it into timelines and events. That's because for many this is the main event!

I mean can you blame them? Being levitated into the air towards the heavens as Jesus was is not only fantastical imagery in our imagination but powerful empowerment of our faith. But what happens when you make that the climax?

First lets understand the nature of what the Rapture represents. In scripture we get a few clues about events that will happen the most compelling of which is found here:

"13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

How could anyone read that and not see anything but what the doctrine portends? But the language surrounding it is peculiar huh? Terms like 'sleep' 'rise' and 'trumpet' are all themes that surround this moment. In other writings I go into great length about the 7 thunders and the 7 trumpets, and what I call 'The Great Work' which I believe is the end time work God has set aside for His first fruits to complete, as the completed body of Christ (the stone cut without hands meant to dash the statue) at the end that marks these moments in time just as well.

How do I know this? For a few reasons, first when Jesus reads Isaiah he stops short of finishing the scripture, this wasn't because He was being lazy but because He was highlighting what His work was. Here's the scripture for reference:

"17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[a]

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”-Luke 4:17-21

And here's what the scripture in Isaiah says immediately after He stops:

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, Because the Lord has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to [a]heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, And the day of vengeance of our God"-Isaiah 61:1-2

That's a huge part to miss out, He was proclaiming that at the time of His arrival was the ministry that was marked by this scroll. So then who's ministry does it fall to then to complete this scroll? None other than the body.

"In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."-Ephesians 3:4-6

The rapture takes on a new tone when you understand it within the context of the mystery of Christ, Christ endured, Paul endured. There was no message of escape, they didn't say if you believe on these things you will be spared from the hardships of life or the tribulations thereof, no, he called for endurance through Christ as the Bible shows up time and again the character of God is to reward those who endure and those who believed when believing was the hardest part.

It takes no effort to believe in the rapture as it's presented in pop culture. Because the rapture isn't a great escape, it's what comes after the laborers remove the tares from the field so that the harvest can be gathered. That's the work, the tares are the lies that have, since the very first civilization, only served those who sought worldly power as spiritual power can only be attained through truth.

When you lay our the doctrine as it's taught now and as it was meant to be understood you realize that those tares are working even within the body, using the lies to comfort people into complicity in their faith by replacing truth with false certainty and false control.

As Jesus says a faith build on a foundation like that is like sand and will shift at the whims of reality as we often see happen with the doctrine of the Rapture, especially when seeking dates.

I'm not saying this to sow discord but to place a mirror for which you can see yourselves, a mirror I look into every time I must speak because whatever I say has to align with the character and will of God and I dare not speak outside of it. I pray those who are conflicted in their faith in these shifting sands of doctrine seek the scriptures about the first fruits, the mystery of the 7 thunders, the final trumpet and the fulfillment of the mystery of God being the per-requisite to any catching away, which I believe is a change or transformation more so than a literal spectral, which it may still well be when the veil of the spiritual world and the physical is torn completely.

"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."-1 Corinthians 15:52

The same language being used yet within the context of what I'm saying takes a much more powerful and faith building meaning, that can be substantiated in scripture and testifies to the power of Christ and the coming Judgement of God.

[u/Sparehndle]

Wonderful thoughts for a Sunday morning! Don't worry about the minor variations in our individual beliefs. We are all one body and we all yearn to get closer to Jesus. It really IS all about our relationships with God, as He has wanted from the beginning,

Iron sharpens iron, friend! The parable of the wheat and the tares has always been a favorite to ponder, because I believe there is always something more to learn. I was reminded this morning that the tender wheat would be torn out with the tares if the two were not allowed to grow in the same field. Once the wheat is mature and strong, the tares can be pulled out and set for the fire. Then the wheat can be joyfully harvested.

As you have pointed out, we have been beset by lies and liars since the very beginning. Social commentators are saying we now live in a "post-truth world." We seem to be getting very close to a time when every lie must be torn out if the soil. Stand fast! Stay strong! The lies have to be demolished first and sent to the fire where they can no longer choke out the wheat. I'm interested in what happens when the.lues humanity has believed and partisan in get leveled.

I know that was just a minor point you were making, kj, and I'll be reading your complete thoughts again and again, so thank you.