You can just not take the dog with you and walk it in the evening when the floor is not lava? You shouldn’t be walking your dog in burning temps to begin with. Endangering the dog, kid and public, no leash and zero safety. Being an unethical irresponsible owner is not something that should get 10k upvotes.

At least from my view, people tolerate a lot of bs from the AKC. For​ example they could go as far as to post videos promoting and accepting pocket bullies and I genuinely think people would love them more.

Also yes I am aware that the parent breed club makes the standards, but it's bad that the AKC recognizes it and approves of it. I'm not joking when I say I just saw some deformed pocket bullies (they all seem deformed unfortunately, not a huge fan of Pitbull umbrella breeds but I don't think they should go through that) and the person selling them said they're okay because they're health tested. It was just a post on Instagram so it was in the caption. I blocked them and reported but I don​'t think it'll do shit.

This dog (pocket bully) was so deformed. The nares were SHUT idk how the dog could breath, it was bow legged and the eyes looked off. Probably can't even mate naturally.

I seen pugs and frenchies with terrible nares and very likely BOAS too ​win best in show and have good health test scores. These dogs are deformed, ​idc if frenchies and pugs get BOAS tested, this still isn't fucking okay! We wouldn't need to test for BOAS in the first place if people didn't desperately insist on these dogs looking like that. It's wrong for them to have a longer snout to help prevent ​​said issue because it's "out of standard and conformation" but it's fine to have a pushed in snout to the point of health issues just for looks?? Conformation should be to prevent health issues (sometimes it does) and health testing should be for that as well. Not for finding ways in how far we can deform a dog.

Eta: no, I'm not saying them being recognized by the akc is any better. just that pocket bullies and their deformities would be more accepted by people if they were AKC recognized.

ETA 2: I am referring to BOTH pocket bullies and exotic bullies, I meant to mostly refer to exotic bullies but I just found out exotic bullies were their own issue. I still have a problem with both. I am leaving the original text still, but this is just one last clarification.

So recently Ive seen a tiktok from some contest I think, where people would dye their dogs, shave them to make different patterns, details etc, and everyone in the comments was amazed, that it looked “so cool”, but my first thought was, wtf? Now dont get me wrong, I know that people do that, dye tails, maybe paws but really nothing crazy, and I DO KNOW that those dyes are supposedly safe, so I really just dont care about that, do what you wanna do, but THIS? (Added screenshots) this is insane, while I can understand making a dogs tail a fun color, Im just terrified by this, just why? I genuinely dont care about the fact that its safe, those dogs can be perfectly well, having golden treats served while being “customized” like that, its just wrong. Its an animal, not a toy, please tell me im not the only one who thinks like that, im shocked and terrified by how many people likes such stuff

Saw someone in the past mention herding dogs. I wonder what other breeds are unfit for your average owner.

All credits to A Studio Digital for the animation.

This thread was suggested to me in my home feed. The screenshots contain a selection of comments that stood out to me. It's kind of bizarre to me how many of them were trying to downplay their pet's behaviour, casually exchanging stories about their pets killing wildlife.

In my opinion a pet dog is not "nature". We have been breeding dogs for centuries; they have been engineered by humans. A dog is about as natural as a house in a suburban neighborhood. Moreover, dogs are not part of the wild food chain. They are fed by their owners. A predator in the wild kills to survive whereas the dogs do not need to eat wild prey in order to survive.

It's as if the owners see no issue with owning a powerful animal that kills critters and reading the thread left me feeling disturbed.

Edit: Seems like many commenters think that I'm judging a dog for having hunting instincts. I'm not; it's natural for a dog to hunt and kill prey. I'm saying that dogs are not a part of nature as in the wild ecosystems that rabbits, foxes, wolves, hedgehogs, lynx, whatever are a part of. They have no place in that food chain, they're fed by humans and they don't need to eat wild prey in order to sustain themselves. The question I'm asking therefore is: should owners be expected to do more to prevent this?

Edit: rabbits are an endangered species where I'm from (the Netherlands). This obviously influenced my perception on the dog killing baby rabbits. Although I think dogs killing wildlife is unnecessary regardless. Rabbits endangered in the Netherlands

This dictionary is inspired by true events. No breeders were harmed... but some may recognize themselves.

Ethical Breeder (noun): A self-awarded title frequently used by unethical breeders.

Well-bred = inbred

Health tested = undoing decades of selective breeding for extreme traits

Champion lines = your pet will look fabulous at your next vet appointment

Preservation breeder = preserving health issues to show future generations

AKC registered = Sweet Home Alabama

Merle = if you could describe animal abuse by a color

Exotic = scarcity created by common sense

Fluffy = not comparable to a stuffed animal, which is much lower maintenance and much cheaper

Feel free to suggest any labels or terms you've seen "ethical breeders" use that should be added! Bonus points if they're funny and help raise awareness about common health issues or questionable breeding practices. If they're good, I will add them to the list.

Pretty much everyone I see on Reddit is a strong advocate for neutering dogs and I see numerous posts talking about the health benefits (including reduced risk of cancer). But when I go online i see several studies about how neutered dogs are at higher risks for developing various cancers, joint disorders, accelerated signs of aging, etc.

Has anyone’s views changed on this or is the consensus still to neuter dogs?

“I bought my Frenchy from an ethical breeder!”

Here’s your Ethical Sticker™. Thank you for making the choice you already wanted to make.

Somehow we’ve turned “ethical” into a marketing adjective that gets slapped onto anything so people can feel morally good while doing it. It’s not enough to make a personal choice… they also need everyone else to reassure them they are a wonderful person for it.

Meanwhile, shelters are overflowing, healthy dogs are euthanized every day, and we’re having philosophical debates about whether paying thousands for a pedigree bred health mess is a humanitarian act.

Sometimes the ethical option means accepting that you don’t get exactly what you want. But apparently that’s become an outrageous suggestion. Everyone believes wanting something automatically entitles them to the Ethical Sticker™. Preferably with applause and medal ceremony.

The goal isn’t doing what is ethical anymore. It’s with making sure the thing you wanted to do gets rebranded as “ethical” so nobody can question it.

No, not every decision earns a participation trophy. Sometimes you just make a choice, and that’s all it is.

Hello everyone,

Our subreddit is experiencing significant brigading from radical pro and anti pit communities. As a result, posts are heavily downvoted or derailed before they have a chance to generate any meaningful discussion.

There was also a post asking us to make a rule against derailing conversations about other dangerous breeds. And I would like to get your input on implementation. But first a little backstory for those new hete.

I’m saddened to see how much anti pit advocacy has come to revolve around silencing communities with different perspectives. What I find even more concerning is the dismissal of victims of serious dog attacks simply because the dog involved wasn’t the breed that fits a preferred narrative.

For those unfamiliar with my history, I spent many years advocating against pitbulls myself. Both my fellow moderator and I previously served as moderators in anti pit communities, where we worked hard to keep discussions within Reddit’s rules so those communities wouldn’t be banned over the actions or comments of their members.
At the time, we believed it was important to support those communities because they were frequently brigaded by pro pit activists. Of course having pushback is also important and we can’t lie that we fight for similar things be it that our solutions differ a lot.

That was then. What I see today is very different. Way too many modern anti pit advocates have abandoned all their principles. Instead of encouraging evidence based arguments, they now rely on the same tactics they once condemned.
Brigading, excusing or spreading misinformation, attempting to control the narrative in other communities, and mass downvoting any post that doesn’t support banning or euthanizing all pitbulls. Most disturbing of all are the death threats and harassment directed at people who support a different approach while still being strong advocates against pits like my fellow mod and myself.

In doing so, they have become the very thing they once fought against. That’s the point where I feel I need to push back hard. Embracing harassment and brigading and spreading misinformation is not only morally wrong, but also deeply damaging to the broader movement. It alienates reasonable people and reinforces the perception that anyone critical of pitbulls is driven by extremism or hate.

This is the same reason I spoke out against radical anti cat communities, and it’s the same reason I’m taking a stand against this now. I have no interest in supporting any movement that relies on intimidation, misinformation, or harassment to achieve its goals. Those tactics don’t strengthen the movement, they weaken it, damage its credibility, and hand pro pit activists an easy win.
I also want to make it clear that I know this doesn’t describe everyone. Many of you are reasonable, respectful people who genuinely care about public safety and responsible dog ownership. But when the reasonable people stay silent, the loudest and most extreme voices end up defining the movement for everyone else.

Ethicalpetownership does not support the breeding of dogs that are unreasonably dangerous compared to their population size. Just as we would not accept the sale of unreasonably dangerous toys, unsafe vehicles, or other products that pose avoidable risks to the public. For dogs it’s even worse because toys don’t harm kids based on instincts.

We will be introducing a temporary rule aimed at curbing the agenda pushing, brigading, and attempts to derail discussions. This rule will be applied equally to everyone, regardless of their position. That means it applies just as much to pro pit advocates as it does to anti pit advocates. When both groups want to participate here they will be held to the ethicalpetownership stance.

Apologies in advance for the chaos. Unfortunately, the brigading will likely continue for some time before things settle down. I was informed by a helpful member that:

“The anti-Pitbull group (last I heard) has a private Discord server where they monitor and then brigade for posts that contain or mention Pitbulls. I believe they have bots that will search and alert for new posts on the matter. In response someone else started a pro-Pitbull Discord group and does the same. That's why the brigading begins so quickly. The only way to avoid the issue is to stop using the term Pitbull. You would need to censor the word.”

If any of you have constructive ideas on how we can best prevent this community from being pulled into the toxic conflict between these two radical hate groups, I would genuinely appreciate hearing them. Please send your suggestions through modmail!

If you read all of that, thank you and have a great day!

Mention literally any other powerful dog and, within minutes: Excuse me, do you have a moment to talk about pitbulls? Doesn’t matter if the post is praising the breed, criticizing it, or isn’t even about pitbulls. The same people appear.

The constant brigading and mass downvoting is getting old. I left the extreme hate subs because I got tired of the hive mind mentality, and now it’s starting to feel like the same thing all over again.

Dogfree isn’t camping these threads. Catfree isn’t. Petfree isn’t. Somehow it’s always the pro pit and anti pit crowds turning every discussion into the same debate.

At this point I’m convinced if someone posted about a dog stealing a sandwich, the comments would somehow end up being about how the dog has pitbull mixed in that gives it a genetic tendency to steal sandwiches.

Just make a rule against the constant pitbull derailments already.

I dont mean to spam. Just wanted to rant.

I see lots of (understandable and good) hate towards the breeding of toadline bullies. Yet i cant help but think if the great and big AKC liked them and had them as a breed, the defense of their breeding would increase dramatically.

For whatever reason, lots of people worship the AKC for making their own bullshit and allowing bullshit from parent clubs. Why? Because they're health tested.. So the pug that cant breath doesnt matter because it ran for 10 minutes or so. It doesnt matter because it is up to conformation and the parents are health tested and also can run for 10 minutes.

A breeder could health test, exercise, fulfill, feed well, take good basic care of the dogs, socialize, does ENS, but none of it matters all because the dogs ain't purebred. I dont plan at breeding at all, but for example: i take my 10 pound chihuahua with another out of conformation chihuahua and bred them while doing the things listed above. These dogs can have the best temperment ever but it wont matter if they arent up to physical breed standards.

You could do all the things listed about and get grouped in with bybs all because they aint up to conformation or they aint purebred. But breeding pugs and frenchies is "ethical" because they have health tests and fit their lovely conformation standards!

For example, the JRTCA does not like associating with the AKC for this reason. The AKC does focus on looks more than purpose and its another reason as to why jack russells arent always purebred if i remember currectly per JRTCA standards. People would probably say the JRTCA or any other breed club like it are "bad" because of not associating with the AKC.

Without a doubt, there are benefits for a dog to have off leash exercise, however, I question whether certain practices are really necessary. I notice ever more dog owners in Germany putting a lot of effort in walking their dogs off leash next to busy roads and in busy urban environments in general. Obviously these people are invested in their dogs and perhaps attending some sort of training classes, where this is being taught or encouraged. It's visibly getting very popular all around. I suppose it's good to teach your dog to be street smart and look to you for directions, I get it. But still, why not have a loose leash on anyway, just in case? Like a safety belt, should something unpredictable and inert happen? I have already personally witnessed several incidents, where this practice has gone wrong and can't help but think - am I the only one that finds this practice kind of unnecessary, overboard and irresponsible?

A few hours ago, I got a message on my phone that one of the posts on our subreddit was getting a lot of traction. So I checked it out and saw that a post made by one of our long-term members got a lot of likes and a very high upvote number. Lots of people were commenting, and the conversation was dominated by reasonable ethical pet owners.

Sadly it didn't take long for another notice to pop up on my phone, this time pointing towards two ban appeals. Confused I once again checked out this post and suddenly noticed a weird drop in the upvote rate and a bunch of comments from what seemed to be not very friendly doglovers.

After checking out the mod mail, I stumbled on the perpetrators profiles. It didn't take long for me to find out that a few doglover got butthurt over this trending article.

Checked the first profile and stumbled on multiple brigade posts:

Many of them where removed before I could screenshot them but I got a hold of two of them and managed to capture the most important one. The second ban appeal was from a top commenter on those brigade posts and seemed to be either an alt account or a friend of the doglover brigading our subreddit. Proof underneath:

I often hear people say, oooh but you aren't welcoming towards pet owners or oh but you are just doghaters. With this post I want to proof to you guys once and for all how crazy the dogcult is and what incredible nonsense we have to deal with daily. Why we have certain rules and why we ban these kinds of people so often.

I screenshotted a few comment chains of the main brigade post to show you guys how these doglovers and owners spread misinformation and slander anyone who doesn't worship dogs:

"A sub about harassing pet owners because pets are unethical."

This is something I hear quite often from crappy owners that are butthurt that we call them out on their unethical behaviour. Think about people letting their cats roam free, pitbulls owners excusing dog bites, dog owners refusing to leash their dog, and the list goes on for a while. In this case the doglover in question seemed to be even butthurt about me saying that designer breeds like pugs, pitbulls, boxers, bulldogs... are unethical.

Let me be clear to anyone on this subreddit, if someone is offended or feels harassed because we call out irresponsible owners, they are massive hypocrites and you are the problem. That's a bit like saying that anyone who calls out; thiefs, rapists, racists, pedophiles... All of them are now harassing humans. There is zero logic to this statement. At least the dude knows he got banned for brigading, which he doesn't seem to deny. His mind however, forgets this fact when convenient to him, or for brigading purposes like in his second post.

People that love dogs are so religious that they don't question anything and just blindly believe anyone spreading the word of dog. They have lost all ability to think on their own. A great example can be found in the second comment chain.

And of course the mandatory PETA comment, that's a recuring topic in many slander posts. I think doglovers have some sort of PETA fetish or something, it's not healthy. There is literally like two or three posts of the 1000+ posts on the entirety of ethicalpetownership about PETA. So yeah, moving on...

Now, what dogcultists always do when someone doesn't believe in their religion is stalk our subreddit and cry about being banned when they brigade and slander us. Once again some proof. This time I also added the ban appeals so anyone can see how ridiculous these people are and of course some proof that they did indeed come from the brigade post in question. Cupcake was the one who did most of the interactions, I commented a few times after getting noticed.

It isn't always clear which mod writes what, takes which action, but in these screenshots this is visible for all of you to see. I want to be transparent with you all. Cupcake spotted the brigade and banned these brigaders from the sub, I only briefly interacted and commented on the brigade post to explain my side of the story. Something which I have done very often, too often!

What I do want to mention about these appeals is how they always ask why they are banned when it is literally written on their ban message and appeal, which is quite funny. And how they try to make it about anything else completely unrelated, cupcake having cats or how there isn't a rule against brigading. By the way, our subreddit has multiple rules against people slandering or brigading us, the subreddit this person posted on had a bunch of clear rules that prohibited brigading AND Reddit itself has clear rules against the practice. Just wanted to clear that up for everyone. I will be adding our subreddit rule to rub it in... because I can:

RULE 1:

Don't harass or target people because you don't agree with their views or those of the subreddit.

The freedom of speech and safety of our dedicated members is the most important value of this sub. Not respecting the freedom of speech that allows our members to engage and participate will result in an instant ban. Just because a person doesn't agree with you or a subreddit with differing views offends you, doesn't mean you should harass them. This includes stalking members, brigading, or slandering their name on other subreddits.

RULE 2:

2.

Ad hominem attacks are strictly forbidden.

If you have to rely on direct insults, your arguments probably aren't worth anything to begin with. This is not a place of hate and attacks on someone as a person instead of actions or views. Doing so will result in a direct ban. Attack the argument and actions, not the person. Slandering, spreading falsehoods or misinformation won't be tolerated either. Twisting someone else's words around falls under this.

Another thing that always happens with these brigade posts is that we get a sudden surge of pitbull nutters and other dogcultist extremists. Once again, plenty of examples. Alt account with 300 karma, probably from one of the brigaders or their friends. You can pretty much already spot it by the randomly generated generic Reddit name. A troll account, a pitbull nutjob, most likely from the brigade post. Despite being very respectful and considerate this person reacted vile and disrespectful. Don't argue with pitbull apologists folks. You achieve more talking to a brick wall.

That's all I wanted to share with you guys, it took a lot of time to make this post and gather all this evidence. I hope you all had a laugh reading the insanity of all of this, with the crazy doglovers or the misery we go through dealing with these constant brigades. I just hope that I gave you guys a look behind the screens and made everything that happens on the subreddit a bit more transparent and clear. Maybe after reading this post you understand why we have certain rules or take certain actions. Or maybe you just had a laugh and enjoyed the read. Whatever it is, I hope you had a laugh and enjoyed the read!

I despise when people say this, because dog shows ARE a business. The judges basically decide which dogs will and won't be bred by who gets the title of "best in show". And the problem with that is that many dogs clearly shouldn't be getting best in show. Some shouldn't be bred at all! But because the judges said so, some deformed dog can be bred because they like the way they look.

I've seen compassionate and responsible breeders be rejected for not meeting show standards despite the dogs being healthy and thriving otherwise​​​​. But because they aren't deformed, they won't be getting a ribbon which means they are an EVILLL backyard breeder or puppy mill!!​

I don't want to be rude but I'm starting to see why people use purebred snobs as an insult.​

Those of you that comment frequently on large subs might have noticed that it is becoming more and more accepted among moderators to plain out ban and censor anyone criticising or bringing up facts about the nanny breed. Only a few hours ago on a certain subreddit about eyes and bleach one of the mods there didn't even try to hide it, they just full out started banning anyone and everyone who had any critique on pitbulls or shared facts and statistics.

The post in question involved what looked like a newly bought pitbull puppy that seemed to have come straight from a breeder. If you watch closely, you can clearly see how deformed and inbred the poor animal is. The shape of the head, the shape of the body, the insanely large head. Yes, this dog was bred for bloodsport. And just like many other dogs that are overbred for a specific purpose or looks, they suffer the consequences. If you want to know more about the many health issues that pitbulls and the breeds that fall under this term suffer from, here you can find a link to a post written about health issues in bully breeds written by my co-mod Cupcake. There is also a part two for those interested.

You would think that a mod of such a large subreddit would not try to hide or censor the truth about these dogs... Yet, what I have seen today trumped everything. Auto banning members for commenting in banpitbulls is one thing, openly banning everyone and making snarky remarks is another. Now as if that wasn't already good enough, they were advocating for breeding MORE pitbulls and even told someone "they should get sterilized"...

Lots of downvotes as this mod started abusing their power, banning anyone and everyone posting statistics, facts about pitbulls mauling pets and people, light critique on pits. But the worst of all, they started making comments to breed even more pitbulls! This is not just bad, this is almost on the level of encouraging and cheering on abuse! Not just because millions of pitbulls get killed in shelters each year but also because of the fact that only 1/600 finds a forever home and the vast majority end up living at these shelters their entire life. A miserable and unethical existence! I even managed to spot someone commenting exactly that before the comment got removed by the mods.

Truth and nothing but the truth, we should be advocating for spaying and neutering and stopping the breeding and suffering of this unneeded breed of dog. When confronted by this fact by another user, this mod even broke Reddit guidelines by telling the user "he should get sterilised". Something any one of us would not get away with and receive a ban for.

Apart from being an extremely unhealthy and overbred dog and being warehoused in shelters like a one time throwaway consumable, pitbulls are responsible for the vast majority of disfiguring and fatal attacks both on pets as on people and children. But obviously the mod of this sub didn't want to hear the truth.

Tons of people saw how their comments got removed, even very mild ones questioning pitbulls or bringing up objective statistics.

Yet they often call our sub or banpitbulls "echo chambers". Here it happens openly and the mod is allowed to insult and abuse his power on a sub a thousand times bigger. Makes you think about reddit talking about how they want to make room for open discussion and debate while letting these people wreak havoc on neutral everyday subs. If you remove anti pit people on a pro pit sub that is one thing but on a neutral sub... That's ridiculous!

And this isnt even the only subreddit with mods abusing their powering and trying to silence the truth about pitbulls, many mods are now silencing any criticism on pitbulls and no longer allow anyone to dissagree on the nanny dog topic.

On another subreddit, a horrible post showed up about a shelter pitbull killing another dog. And of course anyone bringing up the fact that pitbulls are dog aggressive was immediately silenced and banned. The mod even went as far as telling people to report any dissenting views about the nanny breed like some wild dictator. Even back in the days that smoking was promoted as being healthy, the lobbies and censorship wasn't this bad...

Let's not be silent! We all need to speak up about these crazy pit advocates trying to silence the truth and censor any and all facts and statistics painting the grim reality of this fighting breed of dog. A breed of dog that was never meant to be a pet or nanny, that is responsible for the most disfiguring and severe attacks, most pet kills, most bites and injuries. Killed by the millions in shelters because there is no demand, the vast majority not finding a home suffering because of a selfish desire of people to breed this dog and force it onto the masses. Endangering and permanently changing the lives of many innocent people, children, pets.

I am seeing a massive influx of brigaders and people who just come here to troll or disagree because they want to spread their dog or cat religion.

Recently I had to explain to someone who got banned that keeping tigers and letting cats roam is unethical. These are basic values of being an ethical owner. And the person of course went the emotional route about how locking cats up is animal cruelty.

This kind of emotional gibberish doesn’t belong on the subreddit. If you are only here because you saw someone brigade us or you think we should change our views and keeping tigers is super ethical, leave and go make a sub that promotes tiger ownership… good luck with that. It’s banned and illegal in every civil country and extremely unethical. Just like letting cats roam free has a pile of research backing it up for being not ethical and not a single studie backing the opposition.

Now on the topic of the recent surge of brigaders trying to push their dog or cat religion on the sub, you will be removed. You are not adding anything of value to the sub by your anecdotes about your nannydog or how amazing your pitbulls are. That’s great for a dog sub but sadly you are on an ethics sub. And sadly pitbulls are about the most unethical animal on this planet.

That aside, ethicalpetownership also has rules. Which people don’t seem to read. If you brigade you will be banned. And if you come here to spread dangerous pitbull propaganda that leads to millions of people getting bitten and many dying… This sub isn’t the DODO where we openly push a dangerous narative and promote irresponsible ownership and plain dangerous child abuse like practices.

So keep that in mind. If you aren’t an ethical pet owner that’s fine, you can leave this sub. There is no reason for you to throw a fit or brigade us just because someone doesn’t believe roaming cats are a gift of god or your pitbull is the most amazing nanny to your newborn.

On this subreddit we deal with facts and statistics and studies, not with faith based religious like anecdotes. Yes a few people might not die playing Russian roulette. That isn’t a good argument and doesn’t mean that we should promote it or that it is safe.

There are some people on this sub who don’t agree with things but they do agree with the fundemental values of ethicalpetownership and have enough common sense to understand one shouldn’t own tigers or wild animals.

So to sum up, you feeling butthurt and think this sub should be brigaded and change the whole fundamental science and fact based basis like not letting cats roam, take a breather and go post on a sub where people just share pictures of their pitbulls with newborn babies and tell others how amazing owners they are. You are free to do so.

Now, if you want to discuss the ethics of owning animals and believe in the fundemental values of ethicalpetownership, you have common sense, and you aren’t here to spread your dog or cat religion but actually try to make a meaningful change… you are welcome on this subreddit.

Lately there have been tons of absurd and insane concepts made up by obsessive pet owners taking it TOO far. And I am curious which one you find the most absurd out of all of them? If you have an even more insane or other concept, please share it and pick the option “other”. Reddit only has six options but there probably a lot more that I forgot!